(00:00:10) Good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. Glad you could join us. Well, the headlines have shrunk in size but the story certainly hasn't gone away the story being the charges of academic fraud involving the University of Minnesota men's basketball team tomorrow. The university is expected to select a Kansas Law Firm to conduct an investigation into those charges but resulting sanctions, if the charges proved to be true could be very severe some damage has already been done the allegations against the you have drawn national attention apparently staining the use reputation legislators have been talking about possible repercussions when it comes time to appropriate money for the you and four players on this year's team swept up in the charges have already paid a price they were declared ineligible for last. NCAA basketball tournament game this noon. We're going to be talking with the University Minnesota president Mark yudof about the charges and what happens next at the you but this first hour, we'd like to hear from you. There are several aspects to the story of course, but we'd like to focus on this hour are two related questions get your response your thoughts on two related questions. Number one does big-time Athletics have any real place in an institution of learning like the University of Minnesota and second if the you is going to continue to operate a big money Big Time Sports program should the athletes recruited to play those Sports be expected to meet the same standards standards is other students or should they be given some special considerations that reflect their unique role at the you a couple of aspects of the story that we'd like to talk about this hour and if you'd like to join our conversation, we'd love to hear from you six five. One two, two seven six thousand. That's art City area number 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll free at 1-888-438-6557 or 1-800 to for to to 828 joining us now to share his thoughts on those two issues is former Minnesota Governor Wendell Anderson, Governor Anderson was a star athlete himself playing on Gopher hockey championship teams in the early 50s. And then later on the silver medal winning 1956 Olympic hockey team Governor Anderson served 12 years in the Minnesota Legislature. He was governor of Minnesota for six years US senator for two years and he served on the University of Minnesota's Board of Regents for 12 years morning Governor. Good morning. Glad to be here glad you could join us these athletic programs the football and basketball program specifically at the you Lord knows they provide lots of entertainment generate lots of Pride when the teams do well but in your mind, Are they compatible with the university as an academic institution? (00:03:05) Well, I think they are if you if you don't emphasize them too much. I think where's the ethics? I think it's great for the student-athlete as long as the student athlete participates in academic activities and gives that the top priority but if the administration or the coaches are the athletes put Varsity Athletics first, I think that's a terrible terrible mistake. I think some some coaches run programs as if they are feeder programs to the pros. I think that's a bad bad mistake the typical student athlete football basketball hockey. They don't make their living as professionals. I think it's essential that they conduct themselves as (00:03:57) students you get the sense that Governor that those many of those athletes student-athletes go to the university in this case to go to college or to play the sport that they're good at (00:04:12) II can't speak for those athletes. I can only tell you what my experience was. I was very young when I started the university and I loved hockey and I had a tough adjustment to the university but I very quickly understood that you know school was more important than hockey hockey helped me in many many ways, but I was always put studying first. I and everybody on our team did I if I can just tell you about five years ago the go for hockey team had a Sunday night playoff game at the sample Auditorium, and I know five or six the players after the game went to their study room stayed up all night in order to be better prepared for final exams that they had and Morning, and then they played on Monday night and Monday night. They lost they didn't play quite as well. It had a half a dozen players that have been up but I think that's much more than the standard than in some of the things that are alleged that we obviously don't know if they're true or false at this point. But I mean II think it's that abiding by tough academic standards can be part and parcel of a good Varsity Athletic (00:05:25) program. Let me ask you this Governor given the pressures that these student athletes face again, especially in the in the big money programs. Should the should the school's give these students and especially not especiall consider. (00:05:40) Absolutely not absolutely not. I think that'd be a terrible thing. I think the honor that comes to a student athlete comes to be associated with a great University like the University of Minnesota and the academic faculty. I mean, I think of Pinky Mac A football player who recently gave ten twelve million dollars to the university and he said, you know if I live to be a hundred and fifty I couldn't repay the university for everything that it did for me. I mean, I think that those are the stories I think that deserve to be on the front page. No, I I just I remember I remember recruiting with John Marucci. I remember recruiting some players at a particular High School in my old neighborhood and two of the three players kind of indicated. Well, what are you what are you going to offer us and and Coach Mariucci and I were waiting outside of this room. And we looked at one another and said, you know, we just we almost left we thought to ourselves if they don't want to come to the university and associate with this great Institute. We don't even want them. So I mean, I guess I'm from a different school and I think the again I think rarely do you have these athletes go on to play pros and if they do so what I I think we ought to run a program that's respectable. Its To I don't think we have to expect coaches to come up with Rose Bowl champions year in and year out. I think they should be well coached and competitive but I don't think the pressure should be there. If you don't win the championship and within a certain period of time you're (00:07:12) out and you think the teams can be competitive you (00:07:17) continues and I think of Michigan and they're competitive and everything and I think it's most considered to be the best public university in the country. If it's not the best one of the (00:07:28) best Governor ties got to talk with thanks for joining us Richard former Minnesota Governor Wendell Anderson joining us with his thoughts on the questions of the day here in our midday program. Again, the University president, Mark yudof will be with us over the noon hour today and you'll have a chance to talk with the president yudof. But this hour we thought we would focus on a couple of aspects of this story about academic fraud in the University of Minnesota men's basketball team specifically, we'd like your thoughts on whether These big-time athletic programs fit at a institution of Higher Learning and if so, whether the athletes who are expected to perform in those Big Time athletic programs, whether they should get any kind of special considerations in terms of what's expected of them while they're at the University six, five. One two, two seven six thousand is our Twin City area number six, five. One two, two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight, by the way, we should know we're running a survey of very unscientific survey on our website www.mptv.org that relates to these couple of these issues about 80% of the people who responded to the poll online say student-athletes shouldn't be treated any differently than regular students and another 71% of those responding to the online survey. Say that They would be willing to watch a less talented team in exchange for the school putting more emphasis on academics Jay. What's your perception of these questions, please (00:09:10) very much for taking my call. I obviously apparently I'm going to be picking a minority position here. I have to respectfully disagree with Governor Anderson and although when he attends the university and when I did many years ago and I played (00:09:28) your phone is breaking up on us here. Can you can you ring us back please? We're going to go on to a couple of other callers. But give us a call back. Maybe when you move into a different area there the car phone will work a little bit better Reggie. What's your thought? (00:09:44) I think that athletes nowadays are being used for the Athletics is being used as a marketing tool. To attract students from all over the country whereas if you are school is identifying with winning. It becomes a marketing tool and I think that the athletes are being used as such but I don't think they should get a free ride, but I think if you go to school if a doctor go school for four years for medicine, that's what he's getting a degree in so they should shouldn't make the athletes get a degree in chemistry or physics, but they they know basketball they've been playing basketball and lives 10 12 years. They should just be required to get a physical education degree. Okay, and that shouldn't be too hard. If they can't get that were they I don't think that they should be allowed to play but I do think the universities are making billions. As a whole in the NCAA millions of dollars and these guys are not getting paid but the schools are making use amount of money's on the right clothes jerseys. So give him a little time right? (00:10:56) Give me a little break in the classroom or at least to give them the opportunity to get a little break in the classroom. What (00:11:01) about no not if you go if you if you study in football for years football is an industry and you have you have conditioning you have strategy, but it's mostly conditioning. Whereas you how many pushups you do to stay in shape. How many miles you want to stay in shape athletes should be required to know that okay later on in life. He could work at a fitness gym or calisthenics coach or personal trainers. It shouldn't be required to no rocket science or Chemistry or you know things like that. Okay, but if you study basketball, you should know the physical condition. It takes to play basketball right strategy of it. That's what you're going (00:11:54) for. Thank you Reggie. Appreciate the call. All right, thanks. Let's move on to sandy who joins us from White Bear Lake. Good (00:12:01) morning. Hi Gary. Thanks for taking my call. I'm going to respectfully disagree with Reggie. I think going to a university is a is an opportunity for the athletes and I think they're I think they're being cheated. I was a student at the U and there's like a place to over there on 15th Avenue. That's where athletes only. They're basically segregated from the rest of the student population. And the only time I ever really saw athletes on a campus frankly was when I had run-ins with them and there are plenty of other students that have had. Freitas has with some of these athletes and I think it's because they're really not sort of they don't really feel like they're part of the larger student culture in the University contributes to that and I would rather see some of these guys come in and get the education they need and if they've been cheated in these inner city schools, which I've seen plenty of as a mentor have the university bring them up to speed and get them into a mainstream program because that's where the real opportunity is. Thanks for taking my (00:13:10) call. Well before you run here, just let me let me clarify here quickly. You don't have any basic problem with the university maintaining its division one big money Sports programs. Do you or do you (00:13:24) if it means that they're they have to segregate the the athletes they have separate facilities and they're I mean, they're in separate facilities are in separate housing and and so they're not they don't really they're not really part of the larger universe. The culture I think the reason they do it is because they make a lot of money the university gets a lot of money coming in like the previous color was saying based on the athletic programs and that that sort of indicative of a deeper problem in this country where you know, in other cultures learn and people are held in very high regard. Whereas here I think a learned person is the country has sort of mixed feelings towards a well educated person on the one hand. They need them but on the other hand, they're not quite sure they kind of look askance at (00:14:16) you. Okay? Well, thanks for your call Sandy. All right, we're kind of polling those of you listening this morning try to get your reading on a couple of aspects of this University of Minnesota story again over the noon hour mark yudof president. The university will be here to take your questions talk about his perceptions of what's happened at the you and what's next. But this hour is we kind of Ready for the noon hour interested in in your thoughts on two aspects of this story. Number one should the University of Minnesota be involved in big time Big Money Sports. And if so question 2, if so should the athletes who are brought in to perform in those Sports. Should they be given any kind of special considerations in terms of their expectations in the classroom in the rest, six five one two, two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight and Dan joins us from st. Cloud. Hi Dan, (00:15:26) but realistically people don't want to watch a losing team. And you know, how are you going to win? But to put everything into what you're doing? You have to give that a hundred percent and so The only way you're going to win and so maybe the school in should be. No, they should focus that more on the offseason. You know what I mean? (00:15:46) You have the maybe perhaps extend a substantially the amount of time that lets should there be any record. Let me ask you this Dan should these students athletes be should there be any requirements for them to go to school during their season of when they're supposed to be playing? (00:16:02) Well, that's tough. I guess. I don't know the I don't know their their practice schedule, you know, how often how much, you know during the day to do they practice but I think during the season, you know School the reason they're cheating is because they're spending all their energy on practicing and you know, maybe they should just concentrate more on the offseason to get their schooling done that they need, you know for as far as getting their grades, you know in the (00:16:28) offseason. What about bagging big money Big Time Sports all together (00:16:32) at the you know, I don't think that's cool. No people love sports and I think that would be wrong but I think some way get their grades, you know outside of the basketball season to prove that they can perform academically, you know, and then during the season, you know, you know, let them let him concentrate on that. Okay. Thanks Dan. Thank you. (00:16:53) Let's move on to another caller from outside the Twin Cities Mark calls from Fergus Falls. Good morning (00:16:57) Mark. Good morning. How are you doing this morning? (00:17:00) Just fine. What what do you make? Of these two issues that were talking about this (00:17:04) hour. Well, I guess my comment would be I went to the you there and I had I started out in Lord division classes at UMD and I had a calc Professor there who had his both as undergrad in his PhD from Notre Dame and he said that the football team they're all their football players that two quarters of calculus and it doesn't seem to me that Notre Dame football program is suffering because of their ID High academic standards and I just like to say that, you know, it'd be nice. I I would like to see that you continue with with a Scholastic and sports program, but put more emphasis may be on on the student-athlete citizen, but I think you owe you so what you reap if you're after wins and that's your goal. And that's what what you get. If you're after a good citizen a good athlete and a good student. That's what you're going to get to. I think that the program kind of shows that (00:18:05) Mark isn't it tough though, you know the interest in the University football team. There are some Minnesota football team has well, it's declined dramatically from the heydays when the University of Minnesota football team was going to the Rose Bowl now that may not be related to an emphasis on academics. But the fact of the matter is that once the team stopped winning interest declined in do you think people would be interested in following a team that really wasn't very good. But at least all the all the athletes were going to school and getting a degree. (00:18:40) Well, I don't I don't think so. I think the big one of the big reasons, I guess that's maybe another show is that they don't have the football program on on campus anymore and I've never felt like going to the Dome and watching a football game was even a great. You know, I'd rather go to Memorial Stadium and watch a game. (00:18:58) So the matter the fact that they haven't been winning doesn't isn't. Problem telling you. It's just not the whole atmosphere and other other parts of the football situation in (00:19:07) here and I think but I think you know, I've got a son who's starting out and hockey and he's in the might program right now and I think hopefully with the kids coming up now, there's maybe a Resurgence of focusing on the kids first and the kids welfare and their development as good citizens and good students rather than winning and hopefully that emphasis will switch to their thanks Mark. Yep that (00:19:32) preciate the call. Let's move on to Rebecca who joins us from st. Paul. Good morning, Rebecca. (00:19:37) Hello? Yes. I wanted to mention some of my reactions when this was coming out. I recently graduated from a small liberal arts college private university out west and when I first heard that the athletic department at the you had its own sort of study center. I said to myself what ramps suck it up basically meaning that I don't understand why the athletic department had its own Advising Center and then I when the stuff started coming out about the woman that was helping them I said to myself. Oh, she's not a tutor. She's an enabler. There's you know, the no self-respecting tutor would do that and I was coming these very sort of powerful reactions to the whole situation but more and more than I've been thinking about it. We've been deluding ourselves and these kids when we tell them that they can go to school when they don't when they can't cut it academically I was I found myself very lucky to be going to school with student athletes who were better in a lot of ways than me and a lot of my classes academically, but still play, you know, some good soccer. (00:20:54) Do you think the university should get out of the business of big-time Athletics? (00:20:59) I think we should all get out of the business of big-time Athletics. It's you know, we've missed laid our priorities as a culture. I think this is bigger than the university. It's bigger than Minnesota. It's you know is the culture and you know, Michael Jordan is no hero to me. (00:21:17) My name is do a lot of other people (00:21:19) right, but that's you know, he's no here to me just because he's a basketball player and (00:21:24) right as long as a as a university decides to maintain a division one program should these players who are brought into play these Sports should they get any kind of special consideration? (00:21:39) No not if they've if they can academically cut it when they get in they can academically cut it when they get in they shouldn't get anything and if they can't academically cut it when they shouldn't get in. I mean it's to me it's that simple we're diluting them. (00:21:55) Otherwise, thanks Rebecca. (00:21:57) No problem. Thank you. (00:21:58) Another caller joins us from St. Paul. Good morning, Steve. Hello. Hi your honor. (00:22:03) All right. Yeah, I agree a lot with the previous color and I think the whole program needs to be scrapped. The system is broken and we're going to continue to have these type of scandals basically because the way the system is set up, you know, you take these kids who probably can't cut it in an academic setting you make all sorts of promises to them and you know, they get in there and they're floundering and you know, this is the kind of system that creates the (00:22:32) situation University. I think it's fair to say when they you know, when a University team does. Well, it generates marvelous publicity for the University. Probably that extends Way Beyond the playing fields, you know, people actually get interested in what we're doing here at the U of M and so on so forth certainly generates a lot of Pride and a lot of pleasure among Minnesota residents who are paying for the University does any of that count for anything in your (00:22:58) mind? Well, I think no because we have to think of what's the primary function of our universe? Is this not to train basketball players and that's kind of what's happened in some of these places. I think the other thing that's really sad is the graduation rate for these guys. It's less than 50% in many of these programs and I think that's a big tell that tells a lot right there. It's like these guys aren't able to make it and they and a lot of them are actually worse off having gone through the program's than they would have if they had never gone to college, you know, they're pretty defeated. A lot of them have trouble finding work if they don't make it into the pros. I think my solution is split this off into something else create create a new league, you know, some kind of a junior pro league where people who have our talented in basketball can go and play basketball and beasts recruited and scouted and everything else that occurs because that's basically what these systems are set up for us to train these guys to go into the As if they can make it to create some other system that allows them to do this to utilize their talents, but you know, let's not pretend like they're actually going to be at the students that because they're (00:24:15) not. All right Steve. Thanks a lot for your call. Thank you. We're talking this our about two aspects of the University of Minnesota academic fraud Story the allegations that surface last week that several members past and present at the University of Minnesota men's basketball team have received improper academic assistance to aspects of the story like your thoughts on whether or not big-time Athletics have any place at a institution of Higher Learning that's question. Number one and number two. If so, should these athletes who are expected to perform at this high level should they be given some consideration in terms of extra leeway in terms of their academic work six five? One two, two seven six thousand is our Twin City area number one, and if you calling from outside the Twin Cities Is one eight hundred two four two two eight two eight University president, Mark yudof will be here over the noon hour to take your questions share his thoughts on on what's been going on at the you a reminder that we're conducting a very unscientific but interesting poll are on our website www.mptv.org on some of these very questions. Have you done your taxes yet? If not tuned in to the sound money tax clinic this week and get the help. You need to finish your return. Hello. This is Bob Potter. My guests will be CPA ad slots author of your tax questions answered and Gary Carter author of JK last year's taxes Made Easy for your home based business sound money Saturday morning at ten again Sunday afternoon at 5:00 on Minnesota Public Radio. Km W FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. Programming a Minnesota Public Radio is supported by the Pillsbury company Foundation caring for the community by giving kids a loving lift news headlines. Now, here's Greta Cunningham Greta. Good morning, Gary several top military commanders from the Pentagon or telling Congress that there could be us casualties if NATO resorts to airstrikes on Yugoslavia serbs are rejecting an american-backed peace plan and are refusing to sign it. The ethnic albanians are set to sign the deal today investigators looking into the Amtrak crash are not commenting on a television news report that an eye witness has come forward a reenactment of the accident was done last night, but investigators aren't saying if they learned anything from it the Swiss and British balloonists are getting ready to begin the final leg of their non-stop trip around the world. The pair is preparing to fly across the Atlantic Ocean strong winds over the ocean are helping the balloon achieve speeds of 80 miles per hour the two men aboard the balloon have logged over 21,000 miles since March 1st, and they say they're tired and cold but still in good spirits the international law. Committee is announcing some changes today in the hopes of putting the Salt Lake City Scandal behind them ioc officials say they are creating an Ethics commission that will be dominated by Outsiders and the site of the 2006 Winter Games will be chosen from just two finalists in Regional news. A Kandiyohi County deputy. Sheriff is accused of stealing thousands of dollars from a regional drug task force. Joseph pole was director of the drug task force and was charged yesterday with six counts of felony theft state auditor Judy Dutcher said today that more than eighty eight thousand dollars in public funds may have been misappropriated during poles tenure pole was placed on unpaid administrative leave the state Bureau of Criminal apprehension and the state's auditor's office investigated the case the forecast for Minnesota today calls for Sunshine State wide with high temperatures from 35 in the north to 45 in the South tonight. We'll have clear skies Statewide with lows ranging from ten in the north to 20 in the south at this hour Duluth reports Sunshine at 28. It's sunny in Rochester and 32 sunny and Fargo and 32 and Twin City Sunshine a temperature of 36 Gary that's a look at the latest news headlines. Thank you Greta. It is 25 minutes now before 12 o'clock. Midday coming to you in Minnesota Public Radio this hour, we're talking about big-time Athletics at the University of Minnesota. Should the university maintain that division one program Big Ten emphasis. And if so question number two, should the athletes who are recruited to play those Sports be given any special considerations and leeway in the classroom. Perhaps 6512276 thousand or 1-800 to for to 280 280 like to join our conversation University president, Mark yudof will be here over the noon hour to take your questions as well. Now before we get back to our callers without we would share with you a story that you might have missed pretty interesting really evidence of wrongdoing in the men's basketball program course could bring about some pressure for changes in the University's academic support system including tutoring for student-athletes. But internal investigations have pointed out problems in that system before and well University officials made some changes. They ignored other recommendations Minnesota public radio's Tim pug Meyer reports when sexual assault allegations Rock the University of Minnesota's men's basketball program in 1986, then president Ken Keller formed a task force to study a variety of problems in the athletic department. The panel recommended raising academic standards for student athletes keeping freshman out of competition while they adjust to college life and an end of the athletic Department's operational autonomy from the rest of the University dfl state. Senator, Ember Irish God young was a member of that task force and says concerns were also raised about coaches getting too close to the academic counseling and tutoring of athletes. What we came to was a consensus that academic counseling should be separate from the coaching responsibilities and that the people who The academic counseling should report separately to the president of the University we felt it was very important that there be a firewall built between the academic counseling department and the coaching department and the U of M built the firewall by directing the athletic academic counseling office to report to University Administration rather than coaches, but 13 years later a former office manager says she did tutoring work directly for the basketball program. She also claims. She was paid to write papers and complete take-home exams for as many as 20 players between 1993 and 1998 Senator young says the allegations represent a breach in that firewall. This is just totally contrary to what we felt as a task force. Was necessary to ensure academic Integrity in the program. There has been a lot of change in leadership at the U of M since 1986 coaches athletic directors and presidents have come and gone in 1992 some faculty members questioned whether they had the governance and oversight control over the academic side of Athletics as promised in earlier reforms a panel was formed to study the issue and it to warned about potential problems with Athletic Department officials getting involved in academic counseling and tutoring Burton Shapiro a professor in the dentistry and medical schools says the committee he had it was concerned that coaches might try to influence counselors and tutors the fact that if the mean charge to a an athletic program is to do as well as it could in its sport. It would be in conflict with academic requirements that may infringe in some kind of activity. Whereas we are charged as a faculty by the Big Ten. This is to maintain the Integrity of the academics despite any athletic implications. So those two activities must be separate the recommendations from Shapiro's ad hoc committee on Intercollegiate Athletics also included greater accountability for student athletes to meet academic standards and development of a statement on ethical behavior and conduct for athletic department staff recommendations were never adopted the 1992 report was shelved after hitting a procedural snag in The Faculty student governing body known as the Twin Cities campus assembly. Shapiro says, he's not sure why the report died but he says he doubts its implementation Could Have Had It Off the latest Scandal we could have the most most perfect rules and regulations. And I really protect an organization from criminal activity if that's what it was or activity that falls with that with that with outside the bounds of the rules and regulations. So, I don't know if there's no guarantee that had this these recommendations have been adopted that this proud of this alleged problem would have been avoided and the reality that some students are willing to commit academic fraud might be a bigger problem than organizational firewalls between offices Richard lapchick director of the center for the study of sport in society says, he's seen a decline in unethical academic tinkering by college coaches, but he says cheating among all students is a growing problem throughout the country (00:33:17) somehow we've had a lapse in the morality of what's ethical and what's not here in our schools across the board. It's not Regional it's not based on race and it's not based on. Based on grade point average people are simply seem to be trying to take the easiest path to achieve their goals and don't think anything about about a care about academic fraud and this does not seem to be related to sports. Although it certainly happening in sports as (00:33:49) well as the University of Minnesota investigation unfolds Senator. Amber rice got young says she wants to know if the basketball allegations could be symptomatic of a larger problem. She suggested the 1986 task force be reformed to take a new look at academic integrity and Athletics Professor Burton. Shapiro says, he'd like to see the campus governing body take his 1992 report off the shelf. He says the document is as current now as it was six and a half years ago. I'm Tim pug Meyer, Minnesota Public Radio again University Minnesota president, Mark yudof will be our guests over the noon hour today to talk about the entire scope of this story the akan charges of academic fraud the University of Minnesota men's basketball team and what it means and where are they you is headed next that's over the noon hour this hour of. Midday. We'd like your thoughts on two parts two aspects of this story course. There are any number of things we could talk about but we're trying to focus on two things this our number one does big-time Athletics have any real place at an institution of learning like the University Minnesota that's question. Number one and number two. If so, if the you is going to recruit players to play these high-pressure big Revenue Sports, should those athletes be given some special consideration in terms of little more leeway in their classroom work in the rest, six, five. One two, two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities. 2 4 2 2 A 2 8 Sarah your comments, please. (00:35:24) Hi, I just have a couple of quick thoughts. My first one is I do think that there's a place on the campus on college campuses for athletics. I mean we're going to have a liberal arts type system setup. I mean you can't just discount one whole part of learning and I think Athletics are a good a good portion of or a good place to learn and then secondly, I just wanted to state that when we when we discuss whether or not we should be paying college athletes. I mean, they're already getting paid. If I'm not mistaken most of these people get at least partial brakes on their tuition. I mean, I would love to have had, you know a free ride to college to play basketball. I would have been great and and also when they get if they actually do earn a degree, what a great thing to add to your resume, I mean that that opens a lot of doors for these kids if they're smart enough if they take advantage of the opportunity and really do finish their schooling and I think there's been a number of examples of student athletes who've done quite well. When they got done with school and they found that I thought I did it really help them in their (00:36:24) lives. Right? What about the marginal student though? Who is let's say a great basketball player great basketball player would add immeasurably to the you team but really pretty much a marginal student. Should that athlete be brought into play for the you and given some some extra help or some extra leeway while they're in (00:36:45) school and it depends on what when you say marginal depends on what their problems are if there's somebody that that hasn't ever had an opportunity to learn how to study but has the ability to do. Well, I don't have a problem with the tutoring. I mean, I agree with some of the earlier callers who said that the university does make money off these kids and there's nothing wrong. I don't think with that being part of the packets helping them is okay doing their homework for them. That's not all right, and then for the kids who maybe are even more marginal than that, that's what the junior college system is set up for I that was my understanding that there were a lot of players who Have to get a little experience under their belt in the junior college junior college system before they can go up to the NCAA. (00:37:28) Okay. Thanks for call Sarah. Let's move on to David who checks in from st. Paul. Good morning, (00:37:33) David. Yeah, Gary. Hello. I think a given given president yudof desire to make the University of Minnesota world-class research University and and really make its academic standards, you know in the top tier of American universities. I think that this whole problem was going to have to be examined even even without the Scandal. I think that we have to perhaps be more selective about which sports we want to emphasize and and and who recruit to play those Sports at the University and I think that for example, the football team clearly is founded for a fairly long period of time the hockey team is foundering now, but it has a rather storied history of success the basketball team certainly since Haskins has been here has been successful. Now there's a cloud over the basketball team right now and that clearly has to be examined and and the due process that President yudof mentioned is something is going to have to be very strictly adhere to as far as who did what and when as far as special circumstances and considerations for student athletes. I think that first of all we're going to have to increase basically raised a standard with the athletes athletes. We recruited the you there's I don't think there's any question about that (00:38:51) as far as thing even like they're even if they can't shoot a basketball as well. (00:38:55) I you know, I mean this is this I think this kind of a false argument because if you look hard enough, you will find people who can both play and perform in a classroom and I think that that's where when I said creativity and selectivity as far as recruiting, you know, the you has some recruiting policies which are probably questionable and not only in the basketball arena, but it Also in other sports and we should probably look at those very carefully, you know, I seem to remember about 10 years ago when the you came up against that great athletic power Harvard in the NCAA hockey championships and got beaten now Harvard clearly is an Ivy League school and Ivy League schools are relatively notorious for not having great sports teams, but they are selectively they have some teams that actually perform very well they've made a choice and that may be the kind of choice that the EU has to make if it's going to become this world-class academic institution that it wants to (00:39:56) become. Alright. Thanks David. Thank you. Appreciate it. Let's move on to Mark who calls in from Egan this morning morning Mark. What what are your thoughts here? Well, (00:40:07) here's the deal big-time athletes and Athletics are not going to go away. So I mean 80,000 people don't turn out to watch a chemist do an experiment. They turned out to watch a football game a basketball game. And the student-athletes I already think have a system set up for them, you know coming from I was an athlete played basketball too small University and we had an incredible system set up where you as a student at the opportunity to go and get help and get tutoring. So I think the students student athletes already have exceptions made for them references and people were much more accessible. I think because they were re not separate organization was set up for us to go and to utilize so I think a lot of it falls upon the students and I don't think that they deserve any other lower expectations. They don't have to study chemistry. They don't have to study Physics. They don't want (00:40:54) to I was talking to not not I'm sorry to interrupt Mark, but I was talking to a young man here a few months ago and he briefly was involved at the University as a football player and he loved it of course, but he said that it was it was next to impossible to devote any time to study at all. I mean it was one thing after another. Got a weight training in the morning and then you're out doing this and you got to practice then you got to supposed to rest up because you have another practice it gets more weight training film study. And nowhere in that schedule is any place to do any (00:41:31) score? I don't buy that at all. I think I mean don't get me wrong. It is a hard life and but it's look at that. Look at what you're getting paid for that you're getting a free ride to get as college education and it is hard but there is time. You have to go and make it though of a look at it. There are a lot of students out there who Division 1 athletes who are getting, you know, good education's 3.0 above gpas things like that. But the first thing is that they are disciplined they do it they work and they going to get the help they need to so I just don't buy buy that argument at the same time though the NCAA turns around and in 1991, there was a point guard from UNLV who almost was prohibited from playing basketball because he went out and started marketing his own jersey number that he would people are buying that and then the school They couldn't do that and it's a said they couldn't do that, but then they turned around and sold it made Millions off of it. So there's some sort of hypocrisy there that you know, we're going to not allow you to make a living for yourself off of that like NCAA athletes are not allowed to work at all, right, so there's a there's both sides of the issue I think but I don't I don't buy the young gentleman's argument that you spoke to (00:42:41) earlier. Okay. Thanks Mark. Thank you for sharing it. Let's move on to Janelle who checks in from Morris. Good morning. (00:42:48) Hello Gary. Thanks for taking my call. I had a comment on. Hello. Yes your honor. Okay. Good. Okay. I had a comment on my myself being a college student here at Morris at the U of M and Morris. I've noticed that I do find that there's a place for athletics in college and I think that it really helps a lot of the students out here. But I've also noticed that I think that if many of the student-athletes spent as much time on their studies as they do on partying that we would really find that there would be no need for special help for them. And I'm not saying that this goes with every College athlete but I do understand especially in the football and basketball that there's quite a bit of socializing going on and that's pretty much all I would have to say is that without (00:43:45) it. I get enough of a break as it is and if they just put their mind to the studies they had be enough. Yep. Thanks Jenelle. I appreciate it joining us now from Hayward, Wisconsin Jim calls in good (00:43:59) morning. Yeah, I think they should take a whole nother. Look at this huh College athlete you watch them and they're so good that they're approaching the professional status. The coach gets paid 800 thousand a year to coach them those kids out to get paid and they ought to get paid just like the GI bill was that up you play for a year and you're entitled to a year of college and they can do with that what they want to do they can go to that school or they can sell it if they choose and go to another school. Maybe they want to go to trade school or something. But these kids are getting taken advantage of you think diversity is not treating not treating them right because they're professional entertainers. (00:44:49) Do you think the university should remain in the business of providing big-time Sports? (00:44:56) Only if they compensate the people that are doing the actually participate in the activity fairly when you look at what they pay the coach and then compare that to what these kids are getting that are actually doing the entertaining they're not getting a fair deal at (00:45:15) all. And (00:45:17) there isn't any reason you know, what you said before if you're going to be of that level of competence in a sport. It's a full-time job. Why not? Let them earn the right to come back and take and go to school a year later. Just like the GI Bill did (00:45:34) so basically skip classes while (00:45:35) there. Oh, yeah don't even pretend to be a student and that way your your year that you got would be worth more if the academic quality of the University that you're playing for is of the highest level. Therefore the university would concentrate more on achieving a high academic level and because then they could by paying their students a year of college for a year play. They could recruit the better (00:46:06) student Jim. I want to I want to move on to a couple more callers bouquet wrap up at thanks for your call. Let's get a comment here from Stephen Stephen (00:46:15) gentlemen couple of comments. Okay. First of all, I'd like to agree with a lot of the things that your the call of the caller that just hung up said I think that a lot of the callers who come in who call in and who say that they are concerned that the athletes are cheated out of an education. I think a lot of those people are insincere. I mean the bottom line of this is that you know, the relationship between College athletes and universities is a symbiotic sort of business relationship University makes a lot of money provides a lot of entertainment and the athletes in turn essentially get to In a clearing house for professional sports. Now people can say well a lot of these guys don't make it into the pros and where are they then but I would suggest to you that a lot of these people are not going to be the CEO of IBM anyway, so if you were to force these people to take harder classes and so on and they don't make it into the pros, you know, I think the difference in where they end up is going to be marginal because there are a lot of the athletes are people who have not been trained to go to Harvard, you know, before they go to school. These people are people who are taking their crack at a major industry, which is professional sports and there's nothing wrong with that and I think we need to get rid of the fiction that you know, these people are essentially students and they meet certain standards. That's not what it's about. It's a business the university benefits from it. And and I think we should call a spade a (00:47:45) spade. Okay. Thanks for your call Steven. Thank you. We are unfortunately out of time for this. Segment of our midday program today reminder now over the noon hour University president Mark yudof will be here to talk about the full range of issues raised by these charges of academic fraud in the University of Minnesota men's basketball program. You'll have a chance to call in with your questions for President yudof. Also a reminder that we're conducting a survey on our webpage www.mptv.org asking many of the very same questions that we've been talking about this hour and we'd sure like to thank all of you who've been listening and participating this hour I'm Madeleine brand. Our book club selection for March is Balthazar and blue moon Dubai Nobel Prize winner Josie saramago. It's the story of a pair of unlikely lovers whose passion is set against a backdrop of religious fanaticism in 18th century Portugal join us to discuss Balthazar and blue moon de on the next Talk of the Nation book club of the air from NPR news. Talk of the Nation begins at one o'clock this afternoon.