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[MUSIC PLAYING] GARY EICHTEN: And good afternoon. Welcome back to Midday on Minnesota Public Radio News. I'm Gary Eichten. Tomorrow, one of Minnesota's finest public servants is celebrating another birthday. Walter Mondale, former vice president, former Democratic presidential nominee, former Minnesota senator, former US ambassador to Japan, former Minnesota attorney general, longtime well-respected corporate attorney. Walter Mondale is 78 years old tomorrow.

Now, over the years, as Midday listeners know, we've talked with Vice President Mondale about many of the big issues of the day. But today, to mark his birthday, we've asked Mr. Mondale to come by our studios to talk about himself for a change, to reflect on what has clearly been one of the most fascinating public lives in Minnesota history.

As always, we invite you to join our conversation this hour. We're talking with former vice president, Walter Mondale. And if you have a question or a comment about-- for Mr. Mondale about his career, give us a call, 651-227-6000, 651-227-6000. Toll free number is 1-800-242-2828 or you can send in your question or comment online. Go to our website, minnesotapublicradio.org and click on Send A Question.

Mr. Mondale, thanks for coming over today.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you. I'm glad to be here, as always. Big birthday party planned. [LAUGHS] This is an event we've been trying to keep out of the papers. [LAUGHS] I don't know. Joan and I will have a party. We're not going to do much.

GARY EICHTEN: I should congratulate you and Joan, your wife, Joan, the 50th anniversary--

WALTER MONDALE: That's right.

GARY EICHTEN: --if I did my math right.

WALTER MONDALE: That's right. Well, we-- the way our family schedule is lined up, by the time my birthday comes, nobody wants any parties because we have, of course, Christmas together. And then our anniversary is the 27th. And then you have New Year's. And then by the time you get to January 5th, our family would be glad to forget about it.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS] Well, looking at just at the resume, it's amazing all the things that you have done in your life. How is it that a kid growing up in Elmer, Minnesota, down in Southern Minnesota, how did you end up doing all of these things? Did you ever have any idea that this is what life had in mind for you?

WALTER MONDALE: None.

GARY EICHTEN: But it's amazing.

WALTER MONDALE: It's-- we've had-- so Joan and I have had such a wonderful life together. So many interesting and challenging parts of our life that it's really been wonderful for both of us. But did I expect it? Did I dream of anything like it? No. I used to dream of being a county commissioner or maybe a city councilman, maybe Mayor Ryback or something. But it's-- I really feel wonderful about it.

GARY EICHTEN: What did you want to be when you were growing up?

WALTER MONDALE: Well, my dad was a liberal Methodist minister. And he-- we all got infected with the social gospel. And we were expected to be involved in some kind of service. Some of the kids became ministers, some of them teachers, and so on. And I gravitated to politics. That's what I wanted to do, even from my earliest days in high school. So it's something I always wanted to do.

GARY EICHTEN: How did you end up with the name-- nickname of Fritz? That's something I've always wanted to ask you.

WALTER MONDALE: I grew up in a little town of Elmore, Minnesota, which is South of Blue Earth. And a-- it's a German community. A lot of Germans. My name is Walter Frederick Mondale, so everybody called me Fritz. And that's the name I've carried.

GARY EICHTEN: Even when you were little, you you were Fritz.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah. That's where I got it, when I was grade school, I guess.

GARY EICHTEN: So you wanted to get involved in politics even at an early age. First big involvement, though, was what? Running a Hubert Humphrey's Senate campaign, 48?

WALTER MONDALE: I would say, the first big thing that I got involved in was the 48 campaign for Hubert and for Harry Truman, who was running that race for re-election as president. And I just had to get involved.

So I went over to the Humphrey headquarters and I said, I just got to do something here. Do you have a job? They said no, we don't have any money. And I said, well, could I go and organize the second district that's down in South Central Minnesota? And they said, sure, go ahead.

So I hitchhiked down to Mankato. And slowly, we put together a campaign in that part of the state. And that was my first big effort in politics.

GARY EICHTEN: As you well know, so many people, over the years, have tried to launch third parties. They're still trying to do it today. And generally speaking, they may have a little run and then they fade away. The DFL combination of the Democrats Farmer Labor party became the dominant party. Now, what was different about the DFL as opposed to all these other third party efforts that have come along?

WALTER MONDALE: Well, remember that they were separate parties. The Farmer Labor party was a third party. And then in 1943, '44, Humphrey and others, Mr. Kelm got a merger between the two. And it's the only hyphenated party in the country today, DFL. And one of the reasons it remains hyphenated is we were afraid if we just call ourselves Democrats, another Farmer Labor party would spring up and we'd have an unneeded competitor.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS] Now you, by 1960, were appointed attorney general.

WALTER MONDALE: Right.

GARY EICHTEN: And then you later were appointed to the US Senate when Humphrey became vice president.

WALTER MONDALE: That's right.

GARY EICHTEN: Did people tend to underestimate you a little bit early on because you were appointed to these positions as opposed to elected to these positions.

WALTER MONDALE: I don't think it's possible to underestimate me.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS]

WALTER MONDALE: But they-- when I became attorney general, I was 32. And I looked like I was 19. And one of the problems I had when I first started campaigning, people couldn't believe somebody that young was attorney general. And I got past that, as you can see. But that was one of the first challenges.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS]

Another thing, I think, very interesting about your career, and that is that you've lived in Minnesota.

WALTER MONDALE: That's right.

GARY EICHTEN: Right from the get go.

WALTER MONDALE: Right.

GARY EICHTEN: I don't know if it's fair to say most politicians, but many politicians, once they leave, they go to Washington, they never really come back.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah.

GARY EICHTEN: How come you kept-- always stayed here?

WALTER MONDALE: It's the best thing that Joan and I have done. And we have a lot of friends that went to Washington and stayed there. And we decided we wanted to go home. We wanted to be here. And we love Minnesota. We've got our friends here. Our roots are here. And it's-- we-- I think we get a lot of strength out of it, emotional support. And it's such a wonderful state. So many great things are happening. And to live here and to be a part of it is part of the joy of life.

GARY EICHTEN: Talking with Walter Mondale, former vice president, former Democratic presidential nominee, former Minnesota senator, former attorney general. He has come by today on-- one day before his 78th birthday, to talk about his illustrious career. We thought it was finally time to talk to him about himself as opposed to all the issues of the day. And he finally agreed to do it. If you would like to join our conversation, give us a call, 651-227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828, or again, you can use our online service. Go to our website at minnesotapublicradio.org and click on Send A Question.

Louis Mondale is on the line. Mr. Mondale.

WALTER MONDALE: Louis.

AUDIENCE: Hey, happy birthday, [INAUDIBLE]

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you. Aren't you supposed to be at school?

AUDIENCE: [CHUCKLES] I had a doctor's appointment, actually. So--

WALTER MONDALE: OK.

AUDIENCE: Yeah. I was wondering, who your favorite grandchild was, actually.

WALTER MONDALE: Can I name three of them?

[LAUGHTER]

Louis, Amanda, and Barrett.

AUDIENCE: Oh, all right. Very diplomatic answer.

WALTER MONDALE: So he knows, yeah, I have to duck your question.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS] There's a politic answer, if ever there was one. All right. All right. Favorite grandson or grandchild, I should say. What about your favorite job? As you look at this long resume of things that you have done, what was the most rewarding one?

WALTER MONDALE: I loved them all. I've often asked that. I love being attorney general in a brand new, young, and public life, limitless energy, involved in every conceivable issue. And it-- I look back on those as just almost perfect years. It's where Joan and I got started.

Then I got the exciting opportunity to go to Washington as a United States senator, just as Humphrey was becoming vice president and serving there with Gene McCarthy and with the rest of the Minnesota delegation at a time that I call the high tide, when my kind of progressive thinking finally had the strength to get things done. And that's when the Great Civil Rights Acts were passed. That's all the fundamental environmental legislation, things like Medicare and Medicaid.

We got more done in five years than-- in those terms than in any other time in American history. And it was wonderful to be a young Senator and be a part of that.

I remember one time, I came back from an afternoon when we'd passed three or four major bills and-- to get a cup of coffee in the Senate dining room. And in the adjoining table, Humphrey was over there, talking to somebody. And in a loud voice, I said, this is easy. I've only been here three months and we've passed it all. I said, Humphrey's been around here 20 years talking about it. And Humphrey yelped.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS] How is it that, well, yourself, Senator and vice president Humphrey, Senator McCarthy, three giants of American politics, 20th century American politics, all from Minnesota-- Little Minnesota? How did that come to be?

WALTER MONDALE: I mean, we had two vice presidents, a near vice president, three presidential candidates. There used to be a lot of national articles about what is there, what's going on in Minnesota that produces this kind of politics. I think part of it was the times, I think, that the nation was getting restive about not making progress on great issues like civil rights.

But I also think that Hubert Humphrey has to be given tremendous credit for being the pioneer, the person that lit the light up, lit up our state and got Minnesotans thinking about the big issues, and the broader national issues, and the international issues of where we fit in the world. And he was such a dynamic, brilliant, engaging guy.

I remember, Goldwater once said that Humphrey could speak at an average of 250 words a minute with gusts up to 400.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS]

WALTER MONDALE: And he got this state going. And I was just one of the young people who came along.

GARY EICHTEN: Yeah, but you did more than just come along.

WALTER MONDALE: Well, I did my best.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS] David, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Yes. Since we're talking about history, I was curious to hear the vice president's reflections, if he would be willing to do so on the 1964 Democratic Convention and the challenge of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic party, where he played an important role. I'm curious how he looks back on that now many years later.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks, David.

WALTER MONDALE: Good question. In 1964, we met at--

GARY EICHTEN: The Atlantic City, wasn't it?

WALTER MONDALE: --Atlantic City, right. And the political party, as distinct from the nation, had not yet changed its rules. So it was still possible to send in segregated delegations to the National Convention. And in fact, many states did just that. All white delegations, all white male delegations picked from on top. And if we were going to reform our nation, we had to do it within the party.

And these rules that we adopted in the '64 convention, and I was the chairman of the credentials subcommittee that handled it, adopted what I call a Civil Rights Act for the Democratic Party. And from that convention on, discriminatorily, selected state delegations cannot be seated at the National Convention. And I think it's changed our party in a great sense, and it's something that we should have done long before. But that was one of the first big national fights I was involved in.

GARY EICHTEN: Governor Wendell Anderson is on the line. Governor, thanks for checking in.

AUDIENCE: Hey, Fritz.

WALTER MONDALE: How you doing?

AUDIENCE: Good. Just a couple of questions. There was a 20 year period where the DFL from '64 to '84, had somebody running as president or vice president or was the incumbent vice president. At the '60 convention, my recollection is that Gene McCarthy nominated one candidate, Hubert Humphrey nominated another candidate, and the delegates voted for a third candidate.

WALTER MONDALE: That's Minnesota.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, but--

WALTER MONDALE: It was Orville Freeman who nominated Kennedy. McCarthy nominated--

AUDIENCE: Stevenson.

WALTER MONDALE: --Stevenson. And the delegations voted for Humphrey.

AUDIENCE: [LAUGHS]

WALTER MONDALE: Another great day in Minnesota history.

AUDIENCE: Let me just-- just one more question. The-- when we were in politics, Fritz, I think it's fair to say, we laughed a lot. We had great fun. We even liked some republicans.

WALTER MONDALE: Right.

AUDIENCE: How has the system become so poisonous?

WALTER MONDALE: Well, let me first endorse what you just said. I remember my years of public life as being just as much fun as you could possibly ask for. And a lot of the fun I had was with Republicans. I mean, it was a kind of a joy of public life that was so thrilling. And I will never forget that. And I agree with you completely. And it bothers me that the last years, American politics is becoming more belligerent, more divisive, more emphasizing elbows than arms, I might say.

Last night, I saw the documentary on Ronald Reagan. I don't know if you've seen it, but I was really-- we were all impressed by it. And when you get all done, you realize that he was a kind guy. There wasn't bitterness then. I mean, I was his opponent. I didn't dislike the guy. He was a nice person. And he used humor. And the rest, he made his points. He was an effective competitor.

But I think his idea was to try to get all of America behind him, not divide America and somehow, win it through intensity politics. And I think we pay a price for that. And I'm hoping that Americans and the two political parties will start finding ways of thinking as a community, working together, respecting each other, having our differences, having the debate, but trying to respect each other and have some fun while we're doing it.

AUDIENCE: Fritz, thanks. We're proud of you. Happy birthday.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks for checking in, Governor.

WALTER MONDALE: Wendell Anderson is one of my best friends and one of the really magnificent public servants in our history.

GARY EICHTEN: You mentioned Ronald Reagan.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah.

GARY EICHTEN: And I would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit about the campaign in 1984. You ran against Reagan and lost, fairly decisively.

WALTER MONDALE: It's very impressive.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS] Pretty impressive defeat. Do you have any regrets about taking him on? Because I think the consensus was, boy, this is going to be an uphill race for you.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah, and I knew it. They-- but somebody had to do it. And I felt strongly about the issues that I raised. And I just think that was the thing to do. That was my responsibility as I saw it in that campaign.

And although I got clobbered, as you rightly describe it--

GARY EICHTEN: I tried to be a little more gentle than that, Mr. Vice President.

WALTER MONDALE: --it's hard to make that gentle, but it did. I carried Minnesota and the District of Columbia, that was it. But I'm still-- I feel good about the campaign. I feel good about the issues I raised. I feel good about the debates. And that's the part of the campaign that I could control. And I think many of the issues we raised in that campaign did result in different government or had an effect upon Reagan and American government in later years.

GARY EICHTEN: Are you surprised, one really notable thing about that 84 campaign was your running mate, Geraldine Ferraro. You selected a woman to be on the running mate. To this day, she's still the only woman to ever serve as on the major party ticket. Are you surprised that nobody ever followed up?

WALTER MONDALE: Yes. And I hope that Americans will start thinking about everybody when they pick these candidates. Our country has had a good record of opening doors in terms of civil rights, in terms of younger Americans in so many different ways. But when it comes to women being considered for president or vice president, we flunk.

And the British have had Maggie Thatcher, Gro Brundtland in Norway, Golda Meir in Israel. In many, many other countries, the women have shown themselves to be superb executives. And I think we deny this country its best by not looking at everyone as possibilities for these high positions. And I think we will do it, but I am a little surprised that it hasn't happened more than it has.

GARY EICHTEN: Talking with former vice president, former Minnesota Senator, Walter Mondale, this hour about his illustrious career. Tomorrow, his-- Mr. Mondale's 78th birthday. Great opportunity, we thought, to talk about him, his career, as opposed to some of the events of the-- in the news, as we traditionally do here on Midday. If you would like to join our conversation, give us a call, 651-227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828, or you can use our online service. Go to our website at minnesotapublicradio.org and click on Send A Question.

Al, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Happy birthday, Mr. Mondale.

WALTER MONDALE: Good morning.

AUDIENCE: Good morning. You definitely have had quite a blessed and illustrious career. If you follow back, it's been pretty amazing. Quite a run. I've got a question for you on little more current historical question. Could you give me your-- us your thoughts, opinions, and-- of what happened back after Mr. Wellstone, the unfortunate incident when he passed away during the election, that hectic week or two. What-- could you give us a little bit of a feelings and what was going on in your life and such during that time frame. And give us some ideas of what happened.

WALTER MONDALE: Thanks, Al. It's still hard to talk about it. We lost Paul, and Sheila, and their daughter, and their friends. And we lost Paul's strong voice in the Senate. And when we lost the Senate seat, we lost the Senate itself. And the moderating influence that more independent Senate could have applied to some of the more extreme actions, as I see it, of this administration. And of course, we lost Paul and Sheila as friends. And it's a terrible thing.

And when they were killed in that dreadful airplane accident, we only had about a day to find a candidate because the election was, what, seven, eight days away. And they-- what to do. And among others, the two Wellstone sons came to me and said, now we've lost everything. And we'd really like to do our best to hold this seat and keep a progressive voice from Minnesota. And we wanted to come and ask you to run.

And so that and other things. I talked with Joan. She agreed. And off, we went. But it's-- I'm doing some work over at the Humphrey Institute with Professor Larry Jacobs on my history and my records over at the Historical Society. And we're going to try to use it. Students can study it and we can talk about it.

And one of the things I want to talk about is your question, because you can tell, I still don't know how to answer it. It's a very, very difficult time, I think, for all of us.

GARY EICHTEN: Did it take a lot of persuading for you to say yes?

WALTER MONDALE: Well, what did it-- I had decided years before that I was never going to run again.

GARY EICHTEN: You had categorically ruled out running.

WALTER MONDALE: When Paul first ran, I told him, I said, Paul, this is time for new voices. And I wish you the best. And I announced I wouldn't run. But what do you do with a week to go? Getting known in the state, takes time. And there are a lot of talent around here but they weren't-- they couldn't get-- couldn't be competitive.

So I could see that reality there. And when it became clear that that's what everybody else seemed to want to do, I jumped in.

GARY EICHTEN: Julia, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Oh, hi. First of all, I'd like to wish Vice President Mondale a happy birthday.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you.

AUDIENCE: You're very welcome. I wanted to share with you that I worked on you and Jimmy Carter's campaign in 1980 before I could even vote. I was a high school senior. And then in 1984, I was a campus coordinator at the University of Wisconsin. My--

WALTER MONDALE: You did a good job.

AUDIENCE: Well, we were really holding out. We were counting the votes. And I was so devastated by your loss and President Reagan's re-election. But I wanted to thank you so sincerely for your contributions to public life and for the decency you've brought to the public offices you've held and that you continue to do today. So--

WALTER MONDALE: Well, thanks.

AUDIENCE: Sure. Thank you for being a role model for me and for my children too.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you so much for those kind words. And since you brought his name up, if I can just mention Jimmy Carter. One of the truly unique experiences that I've had was when Carter brought his vice president into the White House. That was the first vice president to actually be part of the executive branch and to work daily with the president in an office 40 feet away from his, and to go through all those years together. And we still remain good friends. Remarkable, wonderful, honest, responsible American. And Joan and I and Rosalynn and the president, we remain friends to this day. And that's one of the really thrilling intervals in our life.

GARY EICHTEN: You think the vice presidency will ever go back to what it was before you served as vice president? And if anything, it's become really central to the way the Bush administration is operating.

GARY EICHTEN: I think there's another issue now that's arisen. What we did was we said executive vice, the vice president. Before my-- I became vice president, the vice president was neither in the executive branch or-- actually, legally, he was a member of both the executive and the legislative branches, but neither wanted to hear from him.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS]

WALTER MONDALE: And it was a miserable job. And Hubert, in his private moments, will tell you that. But-- so when I went into the White House and worked directly with the president, that established a tradition now. It's not in the law. It's the tradition in all later presidencies but the vice president following our example.

What's happened now that troubles me is that I think there's another danger here that hasn't been looked at, and that is, what about a vice president who steps across the line, gets involved in the internal workings of an administration, and influences and pressures the kind of advice that a president would get from those same crucial agencies? And I think-- I hope some political scientists get into this because I think this vice president has gone clear beyond what I would think was proper.

Certainly, Carter would never have tolerated it. I was there not as a deputy president, not as a prime minister. I was there as a vice president to help my president do the best possible job. And I never spoke in his name, unless he had approved it personally. And so I think there's a line there that raises a different problem.

GARY EICHTEN: John, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Well, I'd like to add my happy birthday wishes to Vice President Mondale Walter. Happy birthday. 78 is a great number.

WALTER MONDALE: I'm glad you think so.

AUDIENCE: That was the year that I graduated from the Coast Guard Academy. And two years later, I was the captain of a Coast Guard patrol boat that took you and your wife from St. Thomas to the British-- or actually, to Saint John's, the park there for a much deserved break. And--

WALTER MONDALE: I remember that trip.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] election.

WALTER MONDALE: I remember that trip. Wonderful. Wonderful trip.

AUDIENCE: You must have liked it because two months later, I did the same for Jimmy Carter after--

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah, I think--

AUDIENCE: --inauguration day.

WALTER MONDALE: I think I told him about it.

AUDIENCE: Yes. I wondered if you could comment a little bit on how difficult those last days were in the White house, especially in light of the Iranian hostage situation. And just-- you seemed like you were pretty whipped at the-- during that vacation. So like I say, it was a well-deserved break. And I think probably a difficult time.

WALTER MONDALE: Oh, yeah. Well, the history is there. We had this awful hostage problem with some 40 American public servants under some kind of arrest or torture in Iran. And we were trying every way we could to get them home safely before we left office.

And so the last week or 10 days, we were often up all night, working on strategies to do so. And the night of the inaugural, the night before the Reagan was inaugurated, we were up all night, working on that issue. So if I looked a little beat, as you put it out, that sounds about right.

It's never fun to lose. And to be in the White house, to have tried as hard as we did, and to go through those campaigns and make your arguments, and then to lose, that is the public's right. You have to accept it, you have to honor it, and I do. But it does hurt. And it's painful to see people like President Carter, in this case, suffer the way they did.

GARY EICHTEN: I'm wondering, Mr. Mondale, you were on both sides of the election. Teeter totter there. Winning and losing.

WALTER MONDALE: And winning is better, by the way.

GARY EICHTEN: I would think so. But I'm wondering, which is affects you more emotionally, the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat? Does it feel better to win or does it feel--

WALTER MONDALE: That's the easiest question you've asked today. Yeah, I much prefer winning. And it's exciting to know that you're going in this case to-- with the president into the White house, an entirely new experience. You've gotten the approval of the American people. And it is an experience that you can't ever forget. It's just a wonderful, wonderful part of our lives.

I would-- this is a screwball answer. But as I told my kids some years back, and your kids have to go through this stuff, too, Ted, and Eleanor Jane, and William, and rest had to go through it. And I said, there's worse things than defeat in public life. You can lose your self-respect. You can lose your integrity. You can lose your sense of direction and purpose. And that's something you can control yourself. They can't take that away from you. You have to forfeit it yourself.

And what I told the kids is, while we didn't win, I think people respected us. And at least, I felt that way. And that's a very important thing. So I would say, I'd much rather win than lose. But how you win or how you lose is maybe a much bigger question because it involves who you really are.

GARY EICHTEN: Was there any time during your career, Mr. Mondale, when you got close to-- in your mind, got close to that line when you thought, now, wait a minute, I'm not being true to myself here. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to take that position. I'm going to go over here. This is really me.

WALTER MONDALE: I would say, the most embarrassing and painful part of my public career, and I've often said this publicly, so it's nothing new, was my late opposition to the war in Vietnam. I came down there as a freshman Senator. I thought that this was something that I supported the war. And while I ended up opposing it, and spent several years opposing it, I often thought, if in those early years, a few of us had seen the issue more clearly and opposed it from the start, we might have made a difference.

If I could redo something in my life, something in my public career, of course, it can't, but if I could, that's it.

Paul, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Well, Thank you. And on the heels of your comment about winning, and how you win, and those issues, the question I'm dying to ask is, if you crank the dials back to the early '60s, in the re-election campaign of Governor Elmer L. Anderson and the role that Humphrey and other DFLers played, my question is, did you play a role in that? And was Humphrey completely, if you will, bogus on this issue for practical reasons? And where were you? And what did you do at the time?

WALTER MONDALE: I was a strong supporter of Karl Rove, who was our candidate for governor, and worked very hard at it. So I-- we won a very close election, recount, as you recall. And-- but I do want to say that in my opinion, Elmer Anderson is one of the truly superb, decent public leaders in the history of Minnesota.

GARY EICHTEN: Was that-- there was a big controversy over construction practices on 35. And there were some who said that that was-- what tipped the-- tip that made the difference in what was an excruciatingly close election? And the charges was that-- charges were that the top Democrats fabricated the whole thing. True?

WALTER MONDALE: I'll tell you what my take on it was. There was a issue raised about whether there was a premature use of a exit ramp off Highway 35 at Hinckley. There was a claim made, which we made, that they had disregarded highway regulations and the rest to hurry up the announcement of its completion.

The governor angrily reacted. And that was the debate that we had. There had been a couple of books written about it. And that's about all that I can say about it.

GARY EICHTEN: Talking this hour with former vice president, former Minnesota Senator, Walter Mondale, who one of the most interesting and impressive resumes of public life in the history of the state of Minnesota. He is celebrating his 78th birthday tomorrow. And he's come by today to talk about that career. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call, 651-227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828. You can also send in your question or comment online at minnesotapublicradio.org. When you get there, click on Send A Question.

Should I ask you about your international perspective, drawing on your experience as ambassador to Japan. The 20th century was often described as America's century. 21st century going to belong to the Chinese?

WALTER MONDALE: The Chinese will certainly be a much larger player than they were in the 20th century. That's already becoming obvious. But I think-- and there will be other players that are coming on the scene. India, perhaps, improved Europe, Eastern Europe could become a substantial force. But what the position of the United States will be in this new world will depend on what we do, how we emphasize education, for example. The future goes with societies that educate their children. And I think that issue is one that-- where we're not doing as well as we should. And we'll pay a price for that if we don't change.

Another is the quality of American democracy and the strength of our protection of civil liberties. This has been a fight over some 200 years of American history. And I believe there's always a tendency when we're afraid to believe that the support of these constitutional rights undermines our ability to protect ourselves, when, in fact, America is the strongest nation on Earth. And we've become that way, essentially, because we're a free society. And we far outstripped other societies that haven't been free.

So I hope that as we live through these difficult years now, terrorist threats and so on, we do it in a way that strengthens American democracy. What I'm saying is if we do those things, if we educate the next generation, if we protect our environment, if we are true to our fundamental legal rights and beliefs, if we build a society that restores this sense of respect and community that has contributed so much of us in the past, if we do that, I think America will still be the dominant most impressive and most respected nation in the world. And I'm optimistic that that's what we'll do.

GARY EICHTEN: They said after the 9/11 attack that everything was changed in this country. Nothing would be the same again. Is that true? Here we are--

WALTER MONDALE: Well, a lot of things have changed. I mean, it's an awful shock to see that these extremists could use available technology, in this case, airplanes, and fly them into buildings, and we know all of that, and that there are people out around the world that want to destroy us, attack innocent people. And they're talking openly about trying to get nuclear weapons and-- which would be the most dangerous of everything is nuclear weapons. That is a dangerous thing. It requires a lot that we must do.

The 9/11 commission, which met and bipartisanly, unanimously made a series of recommendations, I think, is still the best single list of things we should do. But-- and all of this can be done-- should be done, in my opinion, without destroying civil liberties.

I was on the committee that called for the creation of this federal security court that's at issue the last few weeks. I think we've got a judge from Minnesota on that bench. And what we did there is we realized that in dealing with terrorists, dealing with foreign spies and the rest, we may be needed a different approach than we have in, say, regular criminal law here at home.

And so we set up this Federal Security Court. It's a secret court. Federal judges sit on it. And they can receive requests for warrants to wiretap and the other things that are done before this court. And we changed the standards so it was easier to get those warrants because we knew they might have to act swiftly. And as I recall, the law even provides that 72 hours before you go in there, you can start doing so.

So I think there's plenty of room here under the present law to get warrants to do what you need to do. Why are we hanging up on that? Why do I hang up on that? Because I think from everything that I've learned over my years in public life and the years that I spent on that committee, working with the record of the abuses that we went through that was in the news a few years ago, that human beings need to be held accountable to somebody. And when you've got these secret agencies that we must have, doing what they must do, it's, I think, very advisable that there be someone that they have to go to who's outside the system on the federal bench to explain it. Otherwise, we're going to end up with a bunch of scandals again.

GARY EICHTEN: Harold, your comment, please.

AUDIENCE: This is a much lighter issue.

WALTER MONDALE: Go ahead.

AUDIENCE: When you were attorney general, Fritz--

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: I flew for MacGyver at Aeronautics.

WALTER MONDALE: Oh, you did?

AUDIENCE: In the summertime.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah, Dale Loren MacGyver.

AUDIENCE: Yeah. Lovely guy.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: But anyhow, the-- one time, I had to fly you up to, I think it was Moose Lake.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: And we were up Clearwater about 6,000 feet. I had no exact idea where the airport was. And I suddenly saw it and said spiraling down rapidly from 6,000 feet. I looked over at you, and you were as gray as could be.

WALTER MONDALE: [LAUGHS]

AUDIENCE: I often wondered--

WALTER MONDALE: Did we make it?

AUDIENCE: We made it just lovely. But one thing, though, also, you-- after I landed and you got out and went to your political meeting or whatever it was, you then took a highway patrol car home.

[LAUGHTER]

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks for the reminiscing.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank-- and thank you for flying me up there.

GARY EICHTEN: [LAUGHS]

WALTER MONDALE: Well, a lot of my friends, over the years, were killed in planes as politicians going somewhere. And the Wellstone, same thing happened. And so you got to be really careful because a lot of times, pilots want to do you a favor and fly somewhere to get you there on time. And it's something you really got to watch.

GARY EICHTEN: Joseph, your question.

AUDIENCE: Thank you. Mr. Mondale, I very much appreciate your decency in the political arena, even though as a lifelong Minnesotan, we still don't always agree on things. But I want to ask you about how politics become a cliche. But now that you've been out of politics for some time and you have the opportunity to probably speak more freely, I still have a sense that you're speaking very much as a politician. You don't say a lot of gutsy things that might offend some of your old pals in the Democratic Party and the liberal wing, but that might be very much true that would help further the general discussion and get away from party politics.

WALTER MONDALE: OK.

AUDIENCE: Maybe if you could go all the way back to when you first got into it. And you mentioned supporting the Democratic candidate over Elmer Anderson, and then spoke glowingly of Elmer Anderson. Well, in some ways, don't you wish he had gotten behind someone like Elmer Anderson? Or is it just a necessary, I don't know if I want to call it evil, but is there no way around the party machine politics that we've seen?

And one more example I want you to comment on that might seem remote, but I just read a book--

GARY EICHTEN: Well, quickly here because we're running out of time, Joe

AUDIENCE: --it's called-- yup. It's called Witness, and it's Whittaker Chambers and the Alger Hiss case.

WALTER MONDALE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: And he was vilified. And it turns out, with KGB records, Hiss was the incredibly evil guy that-- it was said, so--

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks, Joseph.

AUDIENCE: --please comment.

WALTER MONDALE: Others will have to judge that, I can't. But I have tried to live a honorable and honest public life. I've tried to call it straight and tell the truth. But I also come with a lot of beliefs and passions about public policy and about where we should go as a nation. And that led me into becoming a democrat, because where this party tends to want to go is usually, where I'd like to go.

I'm not forced to go there. I go there because that's what I believe. And I also think, to be effective in a big nation like ours, that it's important to get involved with an institution that can have an effect on American life.

And this-- we're running out of time here, but I'm proud of my years in public life. It's allowed me to be idealistic and honest. And I-- there it is.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, as you well know, people say-- your critics would suggest or conservatives would suggest, well, that's all fine and good. Mondale had a great career, no question about it. Fine. Public servant. But his brand of liberalism is dead. It didn't accomplish what it set out to do. We still have poor people. And there are no good ideas coming from liberals anymore. Just about-- just a piece of history.

WALTER MONDALE: Well, let me just say that the civil rights, which we adopted, has been essential to this country. Nobody's talking about going back on those great changes we've made in civil rights. The changes we've made in Medicare and Medicaid still issues there, but I don't think the country would want to go back to a situation where we didn't have those kinds-- all the things we did with the environment, the clean air, the clean water, and the other acts that we put in place, pioneering legislation, I don't think the country wants to go back on that.

Recently, the other administration, this administration ran a campaign against Social Security and wanted so-called private accounts. The public looked at what we had done and compared it to what they proposed to do, and preferred our answer.

So now I'm talking about what happened in the '60s and the '70s here. I don't say that what we did then is necessarily the right thing today. That's what-- that's for new leaders to get involved in. But I think that the record that we established in those years is a very sound and solid, historic one because we did more than any other single Congress.

GARY EICHTEN: Given the way politics-- public life has changed over the years, still something that kids should think about getting involved with? If young Walter Mondale were growing up in Elmore today, is it still something that he should think about doing?

WALTER MONDALE: Absolutely. Politics is the business of freedom, the strength of our communities, of our state and our nation. The place of America and the world is decided through the public process, through our electoral process.

And we always need-- will always need bright, young, new people that want to come in there, looking to the future, and lead us ahead. We really need it more than ever, I'd say.

GARY EICHTEN: Proudest achievement, looking back on the whole long, distinguished career.

WALTER MONDALE: Someone asked me when we left office in the Carter administration, what I would say. And I said, well, we told the truth, and we obeyed the law, and we kept the peace. And I would hope that what we did would be remembered as good people trying as best they can to do the right thing and being decent about it. So nothing fancy, but that's what I'd be proudest of.

GARY EICHTEN: Walter Mondale, thank you for coming in today.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you.

GARY EICHTEN: Former vice president, former Minnesota senator, former Democratic presidential nominee, former Minnesota attorney general, longtime top flight, well-respected corporate attorney, Walter Mondale, joining us this hour of our Midday program to talk about his distinguished public career, certainly, one of the most distinguished careers in Minnesota history.

Well, that does it. By the way, Mr. Mondale is celebrating his 78th birthday tomorrow. 78 years young tomorrow. That does it for Midday today. Gary Eichten here. Thanks for tuning in.

And tomorrow, we hope you'll be able to join us. Mike Mulcahy will be in the chair. And among other things, we will be taking a look at Governor Pawlenty's immigration proposals. Michael Campion, who is the commissioner of the Public Safety Department, will be in studio to take your questions. That's tomorrow on Midday. Again, thanks for tuning in today.