A special Saturday edition of Midday the day after Senator Paul Wellstone's fatal plane crash. Included are audio clips from the MPR Archives and callers' remarks.
Read the Text Transcription of the Audio.
(00:00:00) Who knew the senator and we'll be talking about some people who are wrestling with some of the difficult political questions. Now facing the state are political editor Mike Mulcahy is here long time dfl political analyst Bob Meek has joined us, but for the most part we hope to hear from you over the next two hours share your thoughts and remembrances Statewide conversation. Give us a call on our call in line that 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand if you're calling from outside, the Twin Cities, our toll-free line is 1-800-222-8477 victory in 1990 his re-election in 1996 his brief exploration of a run for the presidency and then his pursuit of a third term Paul wellstone was a passionate voice in Minnesota politics and we put together a brief remembrance from our Minnesota Public Radio archive. What wellstones quirky ads to introduce himself to Minnesota voters during his 1990 campaign. Hi, I'm Paul wellstone and I'm running for the United States Senate from Minnesota. Unlike my opponent. I don't have six million dollars. So I'm going to have to talk fast. This is my wife. She'll and our children. This is my house in Northfield where I've lived for 21 years my son David farms and I've worked with Minnesota Farmers for years. We must stop the poisoning of the air and the land and the water I'll lead the fight for National Health Care. I've been a teacher for 24 years labor and all wellstone won't slow down after he's elected vote for Paul wellstone on November 6 now after a year and a half of hacked of campaigning. I have this opportunity as a teacher and as a politician to share with you what I think I've learned from minnesotans and what I've learned about myself. Lesson number one (00:01:54) there is a great deal of disengagement and anger (00:01:59) about politics. The politics doesn't need to be that way. We all know here today that it's much more than money and power games politics is about the Improvement of people's (00:02:11) lives. It is about (00:02:13) less than human suffering. It is about advancing the cause of peace and Justice in our communities and in our world and I'll tell you something will win this race and will restore people's faith in politics in Washington, DC. Minneapolis Hotel wellstone (00:02:30) supporters sang a song called bye-bye boschwitz and by midnight, they believe their lyrics had come true. At midnight wellstone took the stage to do everything but officially declare Victory. He mentioned the mechanically plagued school bus he's been campaigning in and said it's time to point (00:02:51) that bus this campaign (00:02:54) really was found it on shoe leather power volunteers people all over the state. It was Grassroots and I'll tell you something. The support and the enthusiasm of young people around Minnesota was unbelievable. And if there's anything I hope for its that while I'm in Washington DC I can continue to say and more importantly by my actions convey to young people and everyone are in Minnesota that politics is indeed not about money and power games, but the Improvement of people's (00:03:34) lives and then the third thing and I hope this is not too self-serving but I think I've been a good Senator and I shall and I come back home and we work hard and different communities and stay in close touch with people and I think people were saying look Paul we don't agree with you on all issues. And sometimes we think you're just downright wrong, but we do think that you're honest and your Viewpoint and we know where you stand and we think you work hard for us most of the and most of the time you're on our side and I think that helped me a lot you have said that this is going to be it. Is there any chance you might reconsider and seek a third term? No, I know I'm going to I said a long time ago actually it right after the first campaign that it would be a one serve two terms for people and I wanted to serve two terms of a variety of different reasons and mainly personal. I think it's a it's a labor of love. I cannot believe I never would have dreamed ever in my life. I would have had this opportunity and I mean that but it's also 90 hours a week and I and I you know, like a lot of men I think you know, I look at our children and our boys I think we'll are certainly our oldest son who has two small children is doing a differently but in my case thank God our children are doing well, but I didn't spend enough time with our kids are all grown up. I don't want to make that mistake. We have three grandchildren and I definitely want to go back to teaching. I'd like to coach wrestling. I'd like to spend more time with grandchildren. So this was my last campaign in, Minnesota. President Paul wellstone might seem like a long shot but Minnesota senator Paul wellstone is in fact exploring the possibility of running for president. If you don't run for president, I guess even if you do if you don't get elected president any chance you might run for the Senate (00:05:26) again Gary, why are you keep putting this? If you don't get elected I'm going to hang up on you you do that again, you know once I gets comes with once your you gotta understand so you're not five five-and-a-half. Okay, you know when your firefighting have once you get this idea you can do it. You don't let up on it until shortly (00:05:46) after Republicans won control of Congress a year and a half ago. Well (00:05:51) Stone had been saying he would not seek (00:05:53) a third term. Now while stone is pledging not to give up in Washington until he meets a Litany of challenges. I am a senator (00:06:02) That will not give (00:06:02) up. Until there is a good education for every child. I will not give up until there's Health security for our citizens. I will not give up until there's prescription for Senator wellstone announced the diagnosis while seated between his wife Sheila and his family doctor JD bartilson a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic, dr. Bartilson and others at the clinic which the Judgment that I have MS disease. It's a mild form (00:06:27) wellstones wife of thirty nine years. (00:06:30) Sheila wellstone says she supports her husband in his bid for re-election and his fight against Ms. We will deal with this (00:06:39) with our family the way we felt with everything. I mean, we we are used to overcoming things together and we will I'll be able to (00:06:48) conduct a grueling campaign that 10 people can conduct and the sentence, you know, I love the work. So it's always 18 hours a day for me. Nothing's changed. I'm lucky. I'm lucky some highlights from Paul wellstone Center Career collected from the Minnesota Public Radio. Yo archive by Stephen Smith. And Sasha is slain Ian of American radio works Mike McKay. He and Bob Meeker with us here in the studio for a Statewide conversation. Good many people on the line to Share their remembrances their thoughts of Senator wellstone, and also this next two hours will be looking ahead now little bit anyway to find out what some of the big problems that the state will be wrestling with in terms of the election Mike. There are some meetings today on that along those lines. Well a lot of things happening today Gary, I guess first and foremost. There's a crew of federal investigators working in that swampy area near Eveleth trying to gather evidence trying to remove the remains of the victims and find out just exactly what might have caused this crash yesterday. We also know that wellstone campaign officials and others are meeting now at The wellstone Campaign Headquarters presumably to talk about things like funeral. And possibly a where the campaign goes from here. We also know that attorney general Mike Hatch is working today looking at the law regarding what does happen in a case like this with the ballot. What are the provisions that would cover absentee ballots things like that? And we also know that Secretary of State Mary kiffmeyer is doing much the same thing at her office at the Capitol today. So I think some of these initial shock maybe maybe lessening a little bit and now as folks are starting to look seriously at what the next steps are Bob make certainly a shocking event yesterday almost surreal in a way. I have nothing to compare it to I remember having worked for Hubert Humphrey, you know very much the two-year long ordeal of the cancer which led to his death eventually and we admired him so much for his great spirit that he New throughout that time and myself and many others. We all had a chance to say. Goodbye thing that I think is so sad about the passing of Paul and Sheila and Marsha and will and and everybody on that plane is no one had a chance to say. Goodbye. Lots of callers are on the line with their personal remembrances and comments about Senator wellstone and his Legend and that's really the point of this program today to provide a forum. For those of you who have some things to say to say them and let me give you the number again. Don't call right now, wait a couple of minutes let some of the lines clear six five one two, two seven six thousand or 1-800 to for 22828 Bobby. Thank you for calling in this morning. Bobby are you on the line there? Well, apparently she has stepped away for just a moment. And so let's there we go. Bobby. Go ahead, please. All right. Let's move on to David who is on the line now from St. Paul David? (00:10:15) Hello Gary, right where you start? I'm I'm a transplant from New York and I've been in Twin Cities for 27 years came here to go to Macalester originally a 20-year military veteran and I think that one of the things that mr. Wellstones Legacy, I hope mr. Wilson's Legacy part of it. I hope is that people who believe that our government has a role to play aggressive role to play in the lives of Everyday People whether it be as far as health care Education civil rights. I hope the people who believe those things as mr. Wellstone did Don't hide anymore. What I really mean is that I hope that people who are liberals such as myself become proud of it and and are willing to say what we believe in the open and not hide and not allow the word liberal to be an epithet. In fact, we should wear it as a badge. I you know, I met I met Paul wellstone a couple of times and she was with Sheila was with him as she almost. Holy shiz. I live right on Grand Avenue and he likes he likes to hang out on Grand Avenue a lot when he was in the Twin Cities seemed like it was one of his favorite places, and I just I just You know the uh, the idea that a u.s. Senator could be as personable and compassionate as mr. Wellstone is something that you know, I don't even I don't get from even some of the other US senators that I admire like wieden and Kennedy those guys and I know that they're they're good people too. But but when you talk to this guy this this guy and I'm I mean, I'm only five eight myself and here I am, you know talking to this this US senators who's five five-and-a-half 56 and you know, he looks right now and you know, when you tell him something and you can know he's listening to you you understand. It's not just passing through one ear or passing over his head. It's he's absorbing it and he's figuring out How he can help you and other people who have said the same thing that you said to him and that to me is as so precious the fact that he he listens to people and and really has the best interests of people regardless of whether he agrees with him or not at heart and you know, the things that have been said, I mean when you hear these Republican, you know, really people who are diametrically opposed politically from mr. Wellstone breaking down yesterday, you know that, you know, he probably didn't win them over politically on on points of argument, but he clearly won over a lot of people personally and that takes an extremely strong man. And that's what that's what that's what's impressive me about Paul wellstone the most strength. Thanks David. No problem. (00:13:41) Bob me. So remarkable. I mean we live in an age. Where is David points out that the politicians seem unapproachable. The shorthand term for them is that they are suits they are part of some other world and live separately and Paul wellstone just he didn't live separately and while he was willing to adopt to the customs of the Senate and and I heard him talking that many times that that yes, he made changes during his senatorial career to be more effective there. He really refused to abandon the what made him a great Senator and that was his his openness to people their concerns their ideas and Just one point also that David made while some would often talk about yes in principle Americans minnesotans. Sure. They're against government. There's no question government's evil. It's over to it. But you know if it comes down to the GI bill or veterans, you know other veterans benefits or Medicare or head start for the kids it people people really could see the need for government and that he felt he could be a voice to help reconnect people with their government Jorge or comment please (00:15:10) good morning, Gary and thanks for having this forum this morning. I am the executive director of central Nevada. We're a nonprofit Community Law Office that provides civil legal services to low-income Latino immigrants across the state of Minnesota to brief anecdote anecdotes that I want to share that And demonstrate the the multiple dimensions of Paul wellstone. The first one happened about two years ago. When the Holiday Inn Express in Minneapolis use the ins to break up Union organizing activity by a group of workers some of whom were undocumented and the ins came in took these folks into custody in an effort to stop this Union organizing by these workers. Well, I recall Paul wellstone walking out of the rain with the what had now developed into a pronounced limp late one night at the University of Minnesota law school for a press conference with these workers where he referred to these workers as Heroes. And I think that also spoke about his own courage to stand up on behalf of immigrant workers. In this case that we're undocumented and I think really talked about his deep commitment to labor issues and fairness and Justice labor the second anecdote. I want to share his at our office among him. We do immigration among other things. One of the other things that we do is we provide legal services to Immigrant victims of domestic violence and Paul and Sheila helped our office to bring some federal dollars to Minnesota. We got a grant from the violence against women office at the Department of Justice. That was a quarter of a million dollars to provide legal services to Immigrant women victims of domestic violence and in the help of his office, I think certainly influence this process and help them bring those dollars here in Minnesota. And when we announced this grant in the in the fall of 2001 little more than a year ago Paul and Sheila were in our offices to share in that Victory bringing that that money home. But I think it again demonstrated the dimension of Paul's commitment to diversity into the issues of a changing demographic immigrant communities and a changing landscape for immigrants. Not only here in Minnesota, but across our country. Finally. I just want to add that from a personal standpoint. Paul was a good senator from Minnesota and one of the things that I always took comfort in with Paul in the Senate was knowing that someone was in the senate advocating for my issues, even when I wasn't aware of it day to day I always have this comfort of knowing that Paul is out there battling it out on these important issues that I think in the end. His legacies will be that Paul took on heavy issues difficult issues to ensure the well-being of our communities not only today but 10 15 or 20 years from now. Thanks for your call. (00:18:37) Let's move on to Willard who joins us from Minneapolis you morning (00:18:41) wellard. Paul wellstone was a man of action among many other things and had he lived today. He undoubtedly would be joining the thousands who are going to gather on the steps of the Saint Paul Cathedral at 3:30 this afternoon for a short piece March to the st. Paul state capitol specifically in opposition to President Bush has proposed pre-emptive war against Iraq. They'll be a number of speakers from the Minnesota Alliance of peacemakers women against military Madness and other peace and Justice organizations and one good way people can Realize and carry on wellstones Legacy and his idealism is to join this March at 3:30 at the st. Paul Cathedral. Also, the Minnesota Alliance of peacemakers is dedicating its annual celebration of Peace, November 12th to the memory and the legacy of Paul wellstone people can get further information on that by calling 6123743594 or emailing em, white 15 at yahoo.com too. Many of us wellstone was many things but first and foremost to many of us a Great Peacemaker, I'm afraid we've lost somebody who as many have said in the papers and on the air is truly Irreplaceable, but that does not mean that we cannot carry on the fight for him starting with today's peace March. The MEP event on November 12th and many many other events in issues to come. Thank you very much. All right, thank you milord (00:20:31) Babu. But one of the things that I think is truly significant about these days is that when this many people died who were this close to so many of us people have used death in the family as a way to sum that up whether they're talking about fellow Senators people on the Senate staff people with the campaign people in the dfl party people in all the interest groups that Paul worked with over the years Paul Sheila Marcia the staffers of the pilots just sit back for a second. I think there is this sort of like driving with the brakes on feeling people want to mourn people want to have some time and yet because of the peculiar circumstance of the election being just days away. You've you're planning a funeral and get out the vote at the same time. This this just hasn't happened. And and I I just think it should be said that this this is a significant stress on the people that are dealing with this in particularly in the wellstone campaign. In fact, Mike Mulcahy quite a meeting big meeting over at the wellstone headquarters this morning. That's what we're hearing about Gary that that meeting maybe going on right now and that presumably the topic is one of the topics funeral arrangements and perhaps as Bob said the other topic what to do with the campaign now and do you continue I mean wellstone wellstone was always known for this get-out-the-vote effort and the organization the wellstone alliance. They called it early on and I think even the even the Republicans had respect for for wellstones ability to actually turn out the vote on a And a and the question now is does that transfer to another candidate when presumably this other candidate gets on the ballot Mike Mulcahy is here Micah's here. I'm Gary eichten and this hour, we are holding a Statewide conversation about the legacy of senator Paul wellstone and will also be touching on what happens next to some of the thorny questions facing the state in terms of how to conduct this election and just who might be on the ballot. If you would like to join our conversation, let me give you the number again 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight all of our lines, excuse me, all our lines are busy right now. So wait a few minutes as the lines clear. We'd like to include your comments in this conversation Jim. Go ahead plays (00:23:11) a good morning Gary and and I'd like to thank you also for the Statewide conversation. Obviously a terrible loss. I wanted to wake up this morning and find that it was a dream like I think most State and I'd like to offer just on a personal level. We were we were friends with Paul and Sheila and I think as in reflection probably everybody thought they were personal friends of Paul and Sheila and he made you feel like that and I reflect on his incredible sense of humor. And this morning is my wife and I were walking around the lake talking about this we're talking about regrets and one of them is that he had promised our daughter a ride in the bus which she won't get with him. And the other was a Kind of a Funny Story that my wife and I Road biking this summer and we had on our Winstone t-shirts and we were stopped it stopped on a corner here in our neighborhood and were visiting with the friend who has met effect is one of the people as being considered As he candidate and drugs were sitting there talking young man in a very expensive foreign convertible screeches tires around the corner and as he did he hollered out wellstone sucks who was wanted to tell Paul that story and I kept forgetting because I know you would have gotten a great kick out of (00:24:25) okay. Thanks Jim. Thankfully interesting point to be made that. My recollection is that Paul wellstones approval ratings never really made it to 50 percent or not much beyond that. They think he might have hit 52 once he Paul was a strongly polarized figure which meant that people who didn't like him severely didn't like him and people who liked him loved him to death Marcia. Abner is on the line now, she is farmer wellstone Aid she is the head of the Minnesota Council of nonprofits and personal friend of both the Paul and Sheila wellstone Marcia. Thank you for calling in this (00:25:03) morning. Thanks, Gary. our thoughts today I think we're all grieving and still a little stunned. But as I think about Paul and Sheila, I think about what loving good partners they were in the work that they did and how fortunate all of us were to have them as our champions. Much of my work with Sheila was around the issue of domestic violence and I had an opportunity to have Sheila as my good friend to see what are respectful and compassionate listener. She was she started this work when Paul was first elected saying this is an opportunity that I'm called upon to do something with and she had seen so many stories about domestic violence and no Solutions. She was spent a year listening to people victims of violence judges police officers counselors service providers children and she became a real force in this country for speaking out about the importance of ending the cycles of violence. She educated the Senate and they thanked her publicly for it. They often recognized that on the issues of domestic violence and so many of the She's been talking about this morning that it really was the Paul and Sheila team. She was a real champion and really helped people find their own voice. She herself became a terrific speaker and loved campaigning much to her surprise. I think so people who gave us great gifts and it's unimaginable now that we need to go forward without them (00:26:55) Marcia. Thank you for calling. Thanks Gary Marcia Abner who is the head of the Minnesota Council of nonprofits Statewide conversation underway this morning here on Minnesota Public Radio about the legacy of Paul wellstone, and of course the investigation continues in Eveleth as to what might have caused the plane crash that killed Senator wellstone his wife Sheila their daughter Marcia 3 wellstone staff members, and of course the two pilots on board mark Deck like joins us now from Eveleth and Mark. What's the what's the status of the investigation at this point? (00:27:33) Well Gary, there are just an awful lot of folks up here combing through the crash site. I'm at the Days Inn hotel and Eveleth the national Transportation safety board is set up a media headquarters here. We had hoped frankly by this time this morning to have a little bit more information about exactly what was going on. We were told yesterday. They would be a briefing at about 10 a.m. They're now saying that briefing will take place sometime this afternoon possibly three o'clock. The crash site is very near here. Just a few miles away from here last night a 16-member national Transportation safety board team arrived here in northeastern Minnesota. And even in the darkness of five members went to the crash site and they set out again very early this morning as soon as there was Daylight at a briefing yesterday evening. They said they being the national Transportation safety board that their first priority will be to locate the crew voice recorder. They believe was on the twin-engine plane that had carried Or wellstone and the others in addition Gary to the National Transportation safety board personnel. There is a just an enormous contingent of local law enforcement working around the site. They're mainly according to st. Louis County Sheriff Rick Wahlberg keeping the site secure more than a dozen members of a minneapolis-based FBI evidence response (00:28:46) team were also (00:28:47) dispatched to the crash site. Sheriff Wahlberg says fire destroyed much of the plane within hours of yesterday morning's crash. So it's a difficult task to try to figure out what happened and also to find and identify the remains of the victims. It has changed from the time when the the first people arrived on the scene at that time, the main fuselage of the airplane was pretty much intact. The wings had broken off. I think there was some damage to the tail section which may have broken off, you know, so part of that had come up on impact, but the main fuselage itself was intact from the resulting fire that has come, you know that has degraded considerably it's difficult to get to or we're doing is were using like all-terrain vehicles tracked vehicles to go in and (00:29:36) out (00:29:39) the approach to get into there's very swampy. You know, it's real wet muddy typical bog type of area where the plane itself actually is is more of a wooded area with pine trees and what you would normally see out here when you look at at the area Now Gary in the favor of the investigators is a weather so far today. It's not a very nice day up here, but it's not raining. It's not really snowing. There's just a little bit of drizzle so that I assume will help their efforts. They're giving no indication that they have any idea right now. What caused the plane to go down as it approached the Eveleth airport? I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday with the assistant manager of the airport who heard the call come in initially that the plane was on its approach and became concerned after the plane didn't land. This is kind of an automated airport the way it works as a plane will signal that it's arriving the runway lights ramp up to a higher brightness and the plane just comes in and lands in parks and everybody goes about their business, but the plane never showed up after about 15 minutes this gentleman that I spoke with actually went up in a plane and then spotted the wreckage which is about two miles Southeast of the the main airport buildings of the Eveleth airport. The weather was not particularly bad for this time of year. According to the weather reports at the time and also according to this airport assistant director who actually flew very shortly after the plane went down to actually conduct the aerial search. So nobody knows what happened. There is enormous number of folks out there digging through everything right now. (00:31:13) All right. Thank you Mark preciate it our marks it a click in Eveleth as investigation into yesterday's plane crash continues as those folks continue their work near the Eveleth airport. A lot of folks are our meeting here in the state capital to try to decide try to figure out what happens now in terms of the election in terms of the ballots and all the rest of it and joining us is the state's Chief elections officer Mary kiffmeyer Secretary State Mary kiffmeyer Secretary State kiffmeyer. Thank you for joining us this (00:31:49) morning very much very glad to do so and what a sad day indeed. This is for the state of Minnesota and all those families in my deepest sympathy. I know all of Says minnesotans our heart goes out to everyone during this very tragic time. (00:32:03) I know this gets pretty complicated fairly quickly. But as I understand it really there are two issues here. Number one. There is a question of who would serve out the senator wellstones term and then there's a question of who would if anybody appear on the ballot in his place for the upcoming term. Is that kind of a kind of the basic questions you folks are wrestling with (00:32:27) yes. That's right. We actually have two vacancies a vacancy in the actual Office of the United States Senator created by the some very tragic loss and then we have the vacancy and nomination on the ballot and there are two separate ways to fill those (00:32:42) nominations. Can you explain them? (00:32:44) Sure. The first nominee is the first vacancy in the actual office itself is filled according to United States Constitution and its direction is to the governor in this case of the state of Minnesota to a point. All the the temporarily filling that term so that Minnesota continues to have representation. The matter that affects the Secretary of State's office more in particular has to do with the vacancy of nomination and this has happened before in the state of Minnesota little different way. And so some election law was put in place that is very helpful at this time and governs the process. It's an interpretation and understanding under very very unique circumstances that we are challenged with at this time, but under those 16 days and when you have in this case a death that is causing the vacancy, the political party that has a vacancy is able to fill the vacancy providing they have internal rules to govern that which in this case the dfl party does have that in their constitution. So they have a process internally and so this office will be waiting to hear from them in regards to the That vacancy for nomination on the ballot for this November (00:34:01) 5th as a practical matter Secretary of Meyer if folks have in their hands right now an absentee ballot, what should they do with it? (00:34:10) Well at this time, if you do have an absentee ballot and you have cast a vote for anyone else other than Paul wellstone, you can just go ahead and process that ballot in the usual way. Okay, but however, I would like to defer some of the other scenarios because this afternoon, oh actually as we speak right now, we are preparing some materials and there are many different kinds of scenarios. Well, what if this and what if that and there there's probably six seven eight nine ten of those kinds of scenarios. And what we want to do Gary is that this afternoon we'll have all of those scenarios worked on through in a process. So we'd like to give more of a full complete answer make sure that from the Attorney General's office from our office and From from everybody that we have a full and complete and comprehensive answer and so I kind of like to defer those to the afternoon. (00:35:05) I'm secretary kiffmeyer up Bob Mike here. Just a question. It's a a person is in the military service and has completed their absentee ballot and voted for Senator wellstone will their vote be counted. Will they get an opportunity to recast? How would that work? If they're say stationed overseas (00:35:29) very much. So that is one of the very important categories that we have here of absentee voters. And again, there is an answer for all of that. And first of all, I want to share everybody that every single vote will be counted. I think the question is when you have an official supplemental ballot is a difference between what is included in regards to the final final tally and making the decision on the election. And again, I'm going to bother us a absolutely valid question, but I'm going to defer some of those Answers because there are so many scenarios and other one you gave Gary gave one and probably the biggest thing is that if we wait for this afternoon, so my office can prepare a complete and total reply to many of those scenarios probably 95 percent of them will all do better. If we if we give all of those at one time and have an official statement and we've been able to process them through all the necessary reviews and the ACT correct wording that we need to give to every one of those scenarios that are all very very important. (00:36:26) Well, thanks so much for joining us and good luck as you work your way through the thicket (00:36:29) here. Yes. Thank you for your patience as we as we put all these things and we want to get speed but we also want to make sure we have accuracy and we'll we'll have things much more ready for you this afternoon. Thank you very much to both of you. Thanks (00:36:41) Secretary of State Mary kiffmeyer joining us as we talk about the legacy of senator Paul wellstone and what happens next Statewide conversation underway here on Minnesota Public Radio dfl. Analyst Bob make is with us our political editor, Michael. He is here and a full Bank of regular folks who have their remembrances to share today. If you would like to join them again jot down the number and give us a call here in a few minutes at 6'5 12276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two, eight Karen. Go ahead Place. (00:37:15) Hi. Thank you for taking my call. And as everyone else my prayers and my heart go out to the family and to all of us and thinking back to the death of President Kennedy and as a reminder of him and the eternal flame that represents represents lives on for our country. I do believe that Paul wellstone is is our Eternal Flame now that it is his Consciousness conscious the Grassroots movement. The soul of our really of our country he's done the spokesman of and I really do feel that the Eternal Flame speaks speaks of him and what we need to do not only for Minnesota but for our country and that would be a great symbolic tribute to him. (00:38:17) All right. Thank you. Karen Beth is on the line from Minneapolis with some thoughts this morning Beth. Thank you for calling (00:38:24) here. I just have a little story that I think shows kind of illustrates the kind of politics in person at Paul wellstone was at a friend's was a speechwriter for another u.s. Senator and she was writing a speech that had to do with helping the poorest Eva and her advisor went over that speech you said well, we're not talking about support where we're looking for the middle class as well. So you need to change this to the middle class. We're going to save the poor for Paul. Well, so and so I think that just really shows you what Afraid to talk about the issues that he thought were important and he helped the least of (00:39:01) us. Thank you. Math. Appreciate it. Sure. My God, Bob Miku who takes this mantle from Paul wellstone. Is there anybody in the Senate who for lack of a better term is as far to the left as Paul wellstone was and Russ Feingold from Wisconsin. Will he does he have sort of the national stature that wellstone has no but in this new environment, he may step into that certainly helped by the mccain-feingold legislation. Look at feingold's vote on the Iraq resolution against the same way Paul wellstone was and and then there are others now that that doesn't mean I'm not taking away from Paul wellstones uniqueness, but there was a Cadre I think John Kerry on a good day from senator from Massachusetts embodies a lot of the the beliefs that Paul wellstone fought for In terms of representing the poor and the otherwise voiceless did in your mind though. Did Paul wellstone go overboard in terms of beating up on business people and you know big this and big that we heard that speech a lot. Did he go overboard and that direction? Yes. He Paul wellstone was a farmer labor, right? He was a rebirth of Floyd be Olson he the Prairie populist tradition out of North Dakota and Minnesota Paul wellstone lit it up at the the end of the 20th century and brought it into the 21st century. Now the difficulty I think you know mayor Coleman in his campaign would often suggest that well Paul wellstone wasn't there for able to reach across the aisle and you know, bring us two solutions and so forth and so on that's not what I hear senator. Minute she of New Mexico saying about the work that they did together. He didn't achieve Republican on parity in insurance for mental illness is not what I hear from Senator John McCain the that you can read in the Star Tribune this morning leading Republican. So yes, a Paul staked out a very hard anti-corporate Pro small Farm Pro helping the needy and the poor position and having planted that flag. I don't he didn't vary from it Edward your comments on Paul wellstone. (00:41:42) Oh, thank you Gary. Thanks for taking my call. I just have a kind of a personal story about it. I have a daughter who is now 19 who is handicapped. She has autism and I recall back in the 9th grade about four years ago. She was studying civics government and franking privilege has and here just that that very day when she was showing me this in the book. I just gotten a letter from Paul regarding something that I'd written supporting a bill on funding of the treatment of autism and I got the nicest letter back from Senator wellstone stating that he was very much in agreement with us and he concluded the letter with stating. I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers and it just so happens that the next day at Duluth East High School Senator wellstone happened to be speaking at an assembly for the students on that very bill and the teachers had arranged for it for her to meet the senator and he did and he remembered immediately when he heard her name. He just said, oh your ads daughter because I just wrote him a letter on this. So he really knew I mean, he really actually knew the letters that he wrote some other people is some other Leaders are mostly form letters, but this was actually from the senator that he actually wrote personally and my daughter never forget that and she was just working yesterday. She's been campaigning for him down at the downtown Duluth office and received a news and she's just devastated his we are to and That's it. He was he was just just a terrific human person somebody who's in a position of power like that. It's just for somebody to get personal with somebody like that. It's just very touching and he'll be missed and he's (00:43:41) Irreplaceable. Thank you Edward appreciate the call. Harem is on the line from st. Paul with some thoughts this morning some comments. Go ahead sir. (00:43:51) Yeah, please I would like to offer my condolences and every time that I go restaurant or somewhere. I talked to my field other immigrant is about their situation and if they for example half a problem, you know, they will always tell you that Paul wellstone is the right man to go and discuss about there a problem when he's In the washer from telling photo is that he's always from the little beavers such board immigrant. Is he mean that I mean who else you can find that someone who can I mean who can vote? What he believed one all other Senators voting different way. I mean, he really believed it what he believes. And he mean and he was tried many more and I really feel sad. I would like to offer my (00:44:57) condolences. Thanks for your call. Appreciate it. Bob it does seem you know, if you look at the outpouring of comment or which really transcends partisan lines. It's not like well just you know, the Democrats like Tim and the Republicans all hated him and stuff. He did seem to Paul wellstone did seem to make that connection with the average person in the state of Minnesota. I was talking to a fellow last night who was a janitor and appeared to pay no attention to politics whatsoever couldn't care less, but he was saying, you know, maybe I ought to pay more attention gosh, and these are real people aren't they are not just cartoon people know I was at the grocery store on University Avenue yesterday and people all people we're talking about what a sad. What a day. What a day what a tragedy this was and you know, they weren't at the Morial, but they were having their memorial at the meat counter the talking with their friends or Neighbors about the great loss that they have experienced Jason your remembrance this (00:46:13) morning. Yes. I have I guess a personal anecdote told to me by a professor of Journalism at the University of Minnesota. And after Paul wellstone had been elected to the Senate the first time he had invited Senator wellstone to come to his class to talk about his campaign and and how the media was involved in his campaign and and and campaigning in general the night before the the the talk he was going to give in front of the class. One of his aides had called the professor and said that Paul wellstone was not feeling well. He was under the weather and was not going to be able to make it and it was too late at this point than to call the class all the underclass. Then and tell them that they shouldn't show up. So there was a full Auditorium expecting to see Paul wellstone and the professor had to go up on to the lectern and tell them that he unfortunately was not going to be able to make it and so we as he was telling the class this he started to talk about how sometimes you know, politicians will overbook their schedules and we'll have to cancel, you know certain events and that sort of a thing and as he was telling this story The the class started to giggle behind him and the professor turned around and there was Paul wellstone shaking his hand and he said to the professor. I just couldn't cancel on a fellow teacher and and proceeded to give a wonderful presentation to the class and I just thought it would be fun to share a humorous anecdote about Paul wellstone today. And thank you so much for having this program. (00:48:04) Thanks for the call Jason. Thank you. We are having a Statewide conversation this morning about Paul wellstone and his legacy and also talking a little bit about what happens next some of the thorny questions that face the state into the election is just what 10 days away now and there are there are real issues involved even just in terms Mike and Bob of the the lame duck status. I mean who fills the fills the void until the new center sworn in in January because Congress comes back for a lame duck session right after the election, they've got a lot of work to do and it's going to be taking some very big votes and as it stands right now, Minnesota would be short one representative. So something needs to be done about that. Well, it stands right now Tom daschle would be the minority leader. I mean the the the the difficulty, you know, we knew Senators not taking office until January what happens in Minnesota and the other state in Missouri whether Carnahan genes Gene Carnahan wins election or the Republican does that combination and what who Governor Ventura points in the meantime, we'll decide how those great votes and everything was delayed for the Iraq vote. So they're all to come. It's very critical what Governor Ventura is going to do. There was some speculation on the almanac program on public TV last night Steve men the independent former city Minneapolis City councilmember former Ventura Administration official was speculating that he expected. That when all was said and done the governor would simply wait till after the election and then appoint whoever wins the election to the seed and I guess that would take care of that sure seems like the easiest the easiest way out of this but then I guess the other question is who is that candidate the dfl will put on their ballot and and who to the people vote for right Jeff your thoughts here before we wrap up this hour of our conversation (00:50:27) sure very quickly. I just would like to share I bring a group of students every year to Washington DC and Senator wellstone is one of the few politicians the few elected officials. That doesn't make it seem like a hassle to meet with them. He would spend so much time with this group of students and on more than one occasion would Shuffle us all into the Chamber of the US Senate and the pouch through security all of these students and spend a considerable amount of time meeting with each one of them and the chaperones and Older people involved he and his wife were just wonderful people. (00:51:04) Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate the call Jody your comments here. (00:51:09) Yes. I just wanted to say that, you know, I was always really impressed with Senator wellstone because we have a couple of different friends who were from different countries and they were having trouble one was from an African country. One was Costa Rica. They were having trouble getting fat getting over and they repeatedly were having problems with their visas and my parents wrote letters to wellstone wrote a letter and both of these within six months. The African family was able to get over for immigration and our friends from Costa Rica was able to get a visa when she had been turned down three times. You know, what impressed me about that was it only really took one letter and Paul responded in and he got things done now, my parents aren't any one important. They're just, you know retired teachers, but he was founded to us, and the other thing was when my parents had gone to Washington DC One time. They they met him just walking around they weren't they didn't go to his office or anything and they happen to meet him and they went and said hi, you know, we're, you know, we're from Minnesota. We support you and Paul looked at them and said well go back to your office, and we can, you know, we'll talk and you know in my parents were always so impressed. It was go back to your office. It wasn't go back to my office and you know, he just just sounds like a wonderful man. I never been in personally, and I my condolences go to his two sons, but he just he was obviously, you know, he was very (00:52:47) genuine. Thank you Jody. Appreciate the call conversation Statewide conversation about Paul wellstone continuing here on Minnesota Public Radio continuing online as well to Reese in Minneapolis emails. To say we were incredibly fortunate to have had such a man of such intelligence conviction internal resolve and courage speak for us for the last 12 years. Paul wellstone voted his heart. He did not make difficult decisions lightly or without considerable internal debate. He did not vote for expediency always voted according to his beliefs, even though he knew that at times it would probably cost him votes. He will be sorely sorely missed and Christine from Adelia sends us this comment. He's already a legend who else had the courage and confidence and honest idealism to say what he thought and felt with such passion in the face of cynicism and all out opposition. He never lost his perspective never lost touch with the Common People. Minnesota was very lucky to have him and Sheila represent them. We're going to take a break here for some news headlines and then our conversation our Statewide conversation will continue. Let me give you the number again. Our lines are busy. But do we hope you'll keep trying because we'd like to get you on the air six five. One two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight. On the next mid-morning (00:54:10) will let you do all (00:54:11) the talking. I'm Catherine Lanford join us on mid-morning. That's nine to eleven, (00:54:16) Minnesota Public Radio KN o WF M (00:54:19) 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a cloudy Sky. It's 39 degrees at Kinder wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul cloudy through the afternoon with a high reaching the mid 40s tonight should clear off a little bit partly cloudy skies tonight with a low near 30 tomorrow. It will Cloud up again. Pretty much like today Cloudy with a high temperature in the low 40s. From NPR news in Washington. I'm an bozell thousands of mourners stood in the cold rain last night in st. Paul Minnesota to pay tribute to senator Paul wellstone. One of the foremost liberals on Capitol Hill wellstone was killed yesterday in a plane crash in northern Minnesota his wife daughter and five others also died in the crash fellow Democrat, Senator. Harry Reid of Nevada says wellstone was a man of great integrity the last speech he gave on the senate floor. I was there. He said you can call me soft if you want but I care about veterans in this country. That was Paul wellstone. He he is someone that looked out for those that didn't have someone representing them and he wasn't afraid he traveled a road. That was Less Traveled Reed spoke on NBC's Today Show. Well Stone was in a tight re-election campaign. Minnesota Democrats will now have just days to replace him on this year's ballot Minnesota public radio's Michael coup has more on that story from st. Paul, Minnesota. The law allows the state party to nominate a replacement for wellstone, but party officials acknowledge their in a delicate bind State party chair. My Curlin says he wants to allow minnesotans a chance to grieve and reflect on wellstones Unexpected death, but he says he also understands the urgency of the situation Democrats have only seven days to meet and identify a new candidate a Nerlens and says the party remains committed to Victory (00:56:11) Senator wellstone would want to make sure that the party moves forward in a fashion that guarantees that a Democrat wins the election on November 5th, and that's just nine short days (00:56:21) away so far. No potential Replacements have stepped forward for NPR news. I'm Michael coup in st. Paul Russian Special Forces stormed the theater and Moscow where more than seven hundred hostages had been held by Chechen Rebels since Wednesday. The dawn raid came after reports that the rebels were making good on their threat to begin killing the hostages. The BBC's Steve Rosenberg was monitoring events from outside. The theater the troops moved in Just Before Dawn loud explosions could be heard from inside the theater the sound of automatic gunfire echoed through the gray Moscow Sky a number of hostages were seen running from the building. They were helped to safety by police the operation to free those held captive lasted just over an hour. I'm gonna miss his stream from the scene ferrying the injured to hospital near the theater. I saw Medical Teams trying desperately to revive some of the hostages who'd been injured a number of gunmen were arrested. But some escaped one was found mingling with a group of Russian journalists near a police checkpoint. He was arrested and led away the BBC's Steve Rosenberg reporting from Moscow officials there now say 90 of the hostages were killed in the rescue operation along with nearly three dozen of the gunmen. They say none of the 75 foreign hostages was among the dead you're listening to NPR news support for NPR comes from Aveda maker of Earth sensitive hair body and lifestyle products and proud supporter of NPR's environmental coverage information at Aveda.com from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Phil Picardy investigators are on the scene and Eveleth were a plane crash killed senator Paul wellstone his wife Sheila his daughter Marcia and five others, Minnesota Department of Public Safety spokesperson. Smith says the bodies will be removed today. After that the site will be open to relatives of the victims several thousand people filled the steps of the state capitol last night to attend the candlelight vigil for Senator wellstone representatives of many religions, including wellstones own Jewish faith remembered him Rabbi Stacy off (00:58:28) Nur Paul and Sheila wellstone were the best of people they inspired us in their lives and they will continue to inspire Us by their acts of goodness and righteousness that were forever in their path on (00:58:47) Earth. Well Stones all the campaign bus stood on the capitol steps surrounded by a sea of mourners political leaders from Across. The Nation are morning. Well stones death Republican, Minnesota Congressman Mark Kennedy who participated in a candidate Forum Thursday in Woodbury with Marcia wellstone who is representing her father says their deaths are a tragedy that will affect Minnesota for a generation sad and disheartened and in my thoughts and prayers. (00:59:11) To their family that (00:59:12) continues and their friends have continued and I think Minnesota needs a take a moment of reflection to really think about this and their service to our state and in and where do we go forward both Senator wellstone and his wife had a fear of flying a friend say wellstone hated the fly, especially in small chartered planes like the one that crashed yesterday in northeastern Minnesota wellstone was the second u.s. Senator from Minnesota to die in a plane crash. The first was Senator Ernest Ward London who died in 1940 in a plane crash. I'm Phil Bacardi, Minnesota Public Radio. All right. Thanks Phil. It's six minutes past eleven o'clock special broadcast here in Minnesota Public Radio this morning. I'm Gary eichten along with our political editor Mike Mulcahy and dfl analyst Bob make here to talk about the legacy of Paul wellstone and deal with some of the excuse me. Some of the thorny issues facing State and party officials in the wake of the tragic death of senator. All Stone we're here to talk about that. But primarily we're here to hear from you. Those of you who have some thoughts like to hear you. Share your remembrances with us this hour again, all of our phone lines are busy but got the number down because we would like to get you on the air Statewide conversation this morning, six, five. One two, two seven six thousand or 1-800 to for two two eight two eight and Mike there are meetings and and the rest under way today, right Gary. We know that's some folks have gathered at The wellstone Campaign Headquarters. We presume they're talking about things like funeral arrangements, but it may also be possible. They're talking about where the campaign goes from here who would be a choice to go on the ballot instead of Paul wellstone. And and what kind of organization would be behind that person. We also know that some State officials have been working this morning looking at the intricacies of the election law. To try to look at all the scenarios that could result from this this such an unusual event. And so we're still sort of in that wait-and-see mode though. We will be talking if you in a few minutes with attorney general Mike Hatch who is one of the folks who is wrestling with some of those issues Bob Mika, really? I don't know but I guess it's not surprising and it's not amazing but quite an outpouring of grief and shock from just the average Joe particularly is Senator wellstone, even with the the multiple sclerosis just projected himself as such a vigorous person. I mean you could see him in any of the forums and the arm would be shooting up in still even with the disease. He would be bouncing on his legs and and in so vibrant and alive and the Good attorney general can testify to this as well. There's just no one who ever lit up a room recently. The way Paul wellstone could could just get people on their feet and feeling and touch them and and so a person who exuded himself so much who gave so much of himself. I think that explains why he's being so greatly missed attorney general Mike Hatch. Thanks for coming by today. Good morning while course you like everybody else morning and trying to get over the shock in the grief. He also faced some pretty thorny issues here as to what happens now and what does happen now? Well, first of all, there's the issue of the lame duck whoever is supposed to fill that seat fill out the Senators term do they are they they're automatically Old January or how does you know how that works at? The person the governor has the authority doesn't have to it's a permissive not mandatory provision the governor May appoint a replacement and that person would assume office and remain there until the canvassing board until there's a certificate of election and which I think on our current laws like November 20th or so. But once again, we're dealing with paper ballots all of a sudden so it may be delayed there but until a certificate of election at which point the person who won the election would then assume office immediately? Okay. So whoever if anybody is appointed then they would they would be replaced as soon as we knew who had officially won the election correct. Now in terms of the ballot itself are or at this point Center wellstone was still listed on the ballot. What has to happen Okay, can he remain on the ballot? Can they just leave his name there? We don't think so though that the statute indicates that death creates a vacancy in a vacancy has to mean something. There's a statute says it's vacancy It also says there's another statute that says upon a vacancy created by death that there's the Secretary of State. Excuse me that the official party shall prepare an official supplemental ballot. So it in there's no way for somebody who is not, you know to be qualified to run you have to be alive. So preparing That official supplemental ballot would not include the senator. Mmm. So so then the party has to come up with a replacement or there wouldn't be a dfl candidate in this case. Correct? That's the way we read the statutes at the party would have to endorse or nominate a candidate within seven days and are there any obstacles apparent obstacles to the dfl party coming up with? Replacement candidate assuming they could find somebody who would be willing to serve that would be up to the party to make that decision. It's an internal matter for the political party the chairman and the secretary of the party are supposed to file a certificate of nomination and the Secretary of State's shall accept it a party we did take the liberty of looking at the by laws and Constitution of the democratic party yesterday, and I'm not the authority on it. And nor is it any binding opinion what I'm giving you really need to talk to the party itself, but it would appear that there's no obstacles and I'm aware of there may be some issues is that the executive committee or the Central Committee but that's something for the party to sort out and least the way we interpret the law if the whatever the chairman and secretary certify. Is it the state the government itself does not look beyond the certification of nomination by the chairman and Secretary of the party. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you whether you if you were interested in filling that slot I am. Interested. I'm just not yeah, and what about if there are absentee ballots that have already been cast for Paul wellstone are those counted are they cast aside? What happens to those the ballots that are the absentee ballots that have been received would be counted those votes for for instance. Norm. Coleman would be counted those votes for Paul wellstone would not and that would continue until the nomination is made by the party. And then the way the statute reads is that an official supplemental ballot will be prepared and one can get an absentee ballot at that time for the official supplemental ballot, and there should be in they can even be mailed out. Although we're running into add real-time situation up until I believe Saturday up until three days. I think before the general with the person who had already submitted their ballot, Would it be proactive where they would have to ask for another Ballot or would the secretary automatically send them a supplemental ballot just in case they had voted for wellstone that we are looking at as we talk factors several lawyers with me and we interrupted the research here to be here today and we go right back to the library afterwards. But that is one question that Still Remains to be answered clearly a person who's filed an absentee ballot who then votes on Tuesday in person what their official supplemental ballot that they vote on on that Tuesday will prevail they simply won't count the absentee ballot the there's some issues you get into it seemed to me. Can you get a second absentee ballot where you've already requested one, I would seem to me that you have every right to do so, they would be a violation of due process not to now. There's some instructions on it basically indicate you're supposed to swear that you haven't gotten an absentee ballot before but in this case you certainly have gotten Vishal supplemental ballot before so I would think you could do so make your life difficult for just one minute. So what if people are real difficulty and this sorry, I'm very sorry. What if people just want to write in Paul wellstone? What what what happens in that case? Well, I you know, I don't have that answer. I that I don't have that right don't have to look at it. There is an issue. I mean one could argue you could get into all sorts of complexities about the statute does talk about filing an affidavit for candidacy and to do so, you have to be eligible but it refers to the primary. It doesn't refer to a general now what happens if for instance a party could nominate but somebody didn't file an affidavit we get getting all sorts of gyrations, but I just, you know somewhere a common-sense enters into this to I'm just remembering the Arne Carlson was even running before the the sex scandal came out and dumped grunts have from the from the ticket just as a purely practical political matter. How soon do you think the dfl has to come up with somebody else to get this process working? You know, I the problem I'm thinking in the law right now. I don't have not had it. In fact, actually we had deliberately sense has been an evolution here for about the first six hours afterwards. We did do a press conference yesterday two people were calling and they wanted to get some information in terms of this replacement process. But to be candid we were I mean, I forgot what day it was. I thought it was Thursday about up until last night. And in fact, I was telling people it was, you know, one week that they had to file until next Thursday in somebody had to remind me at dinner last night that it was Friday. And so if I mean we were all stunned and and then last night right after that, I think we got into more of a, you know, true going through all the hypotheticals what could occur here and try to plan it out. We've been meeting this morning doing it and we've deliberately trying to stay away from the political process. I mean, Early as I've indicated before, you know, I'm not going to be involved in a decision who in from a political perspective. I don't think it's proper. I wouldn't do it. I'm here as a state's lawyer and we want to stay focused on that in terms of the state's lawyer in terms of your longtime association with politics here in Minnesota. How are you going to remember Paul wellstone a personal standpoint, you know, I at the first time I met him was 1982 and was chairman of the party and he got up I'd met him before and when you're the chairman and people are running for candidacies, you'd one of the most important jobs you have is make sure they keep within the time limit because the other candidates get upset if they go beyond their five minutes or whatever and he got up there and he went and I could tell he had that crowd going he they were standing and roaring. This is for state auditor. I mean most people you think a state auditor you go to sleep. He had these people the whole (01:11:11) The whole convention right? But I guess Andy (01:11:12) just going wild and these other candidates were there and they were crestfallen and I can't repay. I think I can't remember who they were they were running but they did you know, and I put up the time it said, you know one minute to go and man. He took that thing and give it back to me and and I thought well, you know, I'm not (01:11:29) going to I Can't Stop This Train here this and then (01:11:32) he kept going and I thought geez, you know, they don't want another five minutes. I said, I got to stop this and I got up and it was so is not a good introduction, but I'll tell you as a as time goes on you just admire. He is so energetic and the sight of him that Now that I got to know and respect and love was as attorney general over the last four years. He he's the one public official we were involved in issues relating to farm pharmaceutical privacy Mental Health Care. The last time I saw him was at the Anna Westin house the establishment of it corporate responsibility LTV the closing of LTV and he was always engaged and the neat thing it was when you talked issues to him and it's and I wish there were more people like this. He never got into the politics of the issue. He I mean you'd never hear them say what are the what are the polls say in which was so refreshing and nice. I mean too many times today. You got the cutout politicians and Bob, you know what I'm talking about some of these guys they just they look at policy. They look at polls and they become Bland on interesting and inspiring, you know, America needs leadership. And this guy, I mean just think of it he voted on the rack. At a time. I think he's the only person up for election and I kind of serious contest. Yeah, and here he does it and everybody and what happens to his lead in Minnesota. It actually expands. He had yesterday was talking to Ken Peterson. Who is it was a deputy in the office. His wife is Chief of Staff. I believe for his for Paul's office and we're talking about it and commenting that you know, his lead is expanding this guy. I mean, he was a probably eight percent yesterday morning and expanding and just saying gee, you know, if he just does nothing for the next 10 days. It's probably the best thing and it you Justified all the expectations all the measured politicians in the country are all looking up holes and taking their positions and in close races this guy, you know, it didn't faze him. He just got out there and people I mean he was expanding my catch. Thanks for coming by today. Thank you. Good luck dotting the is crossing the T's thanks and I sort of Attorney General Mike Hatch joining us as we hold. Conversation this morning a Statewide conversation about Paul wellstone and his legacy. And as you heard State officials party officials have a lot of lot of tough work to do Michael Casey. Well, you know Gary it all seems so simple when you look at that law in the book, but when you start putting out these permutations and and what if it does get pretty complicated want to be fair to everybody lots of callers are on the line with their Recollections of Paul wellstone Aaron, go ahead, (01:14:22) please hi. I think it's really important to remember that there are many many of us really grew up watching this man and learning from his example and his Focus like my cat was saying I'm conscience instead of on consensus and compromise and I was 16 in 1990. He came to my high school to speak in my teacher kind of collared me because she knew I was really excited about him being there and I was really nervous but Able to say to him. I want you to know that you're my hero and he looked right at me and he was like, what a wonderful thing to say. I really appreciate that and he always has been my hero and I think that for so many of us that were were growing up during those 12 years. I think it taught many of us the importance of activism and and that the sidelines are really a place for no one and I think that we will carry that on and teach that to our children and the one thing that sort of cheering me up on this terrible weekend is that my sons and I spent the morning making a sign for my window saying keep fighting the good fight up there Paul and that kind of is making me feel a little bit better. But thank you for this show. Thanks for calling and thank you. (01:15:45) Let's move on to Karen with some thoughts on this day after the Karen go ahead, please. (01:15:52) Hi. I have a story that speaks to Paul's enthusiasm and spirit. I am a Northwest Airlines flight attendant and I had Paul wellstone on a flight either to or from Washington DC. I'll probably about five years ago and we just finished serving the meal and he was up in the aisle shaking hands and talking to people and he was actually kind of in the way for for us finishing the service and so I asked him if he'd mind pouring coffee while he talk to the passengers and without hesitating. He enthusiastically agreed and actually serve the entire aircraft and we all had so much fun together. (01:16:28) Sorry. He could have made it as a flight (01:16:30) attendant. We're sure anything with the public. (01:16:34) Thanks Karen. Thank you. Amy your comment, please. Amy yes, go ahead, please. (01:16:41) Yes. Thanks for taking my call. I am calling no enjoying the stories and of a life of such extraordinary commitment and so many ways in which he's touched people's lives and much has been said about his view of Politics as being one about improving people's lives and I wanted to just say that this was also what I saw to be the core of his vision as an educator and something that he had as a vision of what the role of Education was in developing future citizens and so much of what he has done in life. He has also inspired students and he wanted students to have an experience that would also engage them with real people's lives. And as a faculty member at Carleton College, he was a founding member of hekia the higher education Consortium for urban Affairs, which was Formed out of a time when neighborhoods were on fire and people were teaching in the classroom and he thought that there was some really important learning to take place by connecting with people's lives and his legacy is felt in the lives of many students and people who are now leaders in our community and I think it's a tremendous Legacy that he leaves in and is an example of an extraordinary life of commitment (01:18:07) Amy. Thanks for the call. Thank you Statewide conversation underway this morning here on Minnesota Public Radio Mike Mulcahy is here Bob make our dfl analyst is here. I'm Gary eichten and Bank full of callers with thoughts on Paul wellstones Legacy. We will keep you posted. Of course as news is sorted out here in terms of what might be happening next still no word. As far as I know Mike about funeral arrangements or building know and of course the In at the crash site continues as well with the federal authorities are looking into what may have caused this whole thing that killed eight people yesterday. And as we heard from Secretary State kiffmeyer little earlier, they're they're in the process of trying to sort out what people should be doing in terms of absentee ballots and all it gets very very complicated. But as she said, they're hoping to get everything wrapped up so they can present this information in a coherent fashion this afternoon. So, of course, we'll keep tracking that as well. Well known Washington Post syndicated columnist EJ Dionne spent this past week in Minnesota traveling around the state probably heard him here on our midday program. I believe it was on Tuesday. He spent his time talking to minnesotans about politics. He was actually at the wellstone headquarters in st. Paul yesterday at the time of the plane crash. Although the folks there didn't know at that time that the plane had gone down EJ Dionne then went back to Washington. And where I spoke with him this morning. (01:19:43) Let me first say that I was in the Senators headquarters around the time the plane crashed and one of the things that struck me just walking around and bear in mind. We didn't know that the plane had crashed was a table where about 66 older women were sitting around sliding open hundreds and hundreds of envelopes from all over the country small contributions from people who saw Senator wellstone as a champion of what they cared about his campaign Treasurer put it well, he said he was a snot only their voice but a strong clear voice and so I think he was a national figure of enormous importance because he was a clear and uncompromising Progressive and there just isn't anyone quite like him around and then the other thing about him was his Democratic Spirit. He wasn't just a big D Democrat. He was a real small D Democratic and he treated people with a kind of egalitarian respect. That was extraordinary. My wife last night was trying to explain to our kids why we would we will miss him so much. Why we were so upset and she said look we had him over he and his wife over to our house for dinner and he called once and it wasn't as my wife explain some Senator having an aide put a call through and saying well stoned Senator wellstone is calling she picked up the phone and he said Mary Paul and that's kind of person he was and there weren't enough people like that around. (01:21:04) You have been traveling around Minnesota or traveled around Minnesota for the past week. What did what had you heard from minnesotans about wellstone prior to of course this tragic (01:21:17) accident. Well, of course, he was someone whom people either loved or we're going to vote against a republican politician prominent Republican politician. The state said look this is about whether you love or dislike Paul wellstone. He was the central issue of the campaign the thing I think that was true is even among people who disagreed with him. There was admiration for his consistency while I was out in Crookston with him and he said that he was struck that his War vote is about against the resolution to go to war with Iraq, which he thought might be the end of him as he put it probably wasn't going to be because he was receiving amazingly respectful an amazingly respectful response, even from people who disagreed with him. So yes, there were people who obviously if you were a staunch political conservative you couldn't agree with Paul wellstone, but I think even in that camp even among people who are going to vote against him. There was a respect for his Clarity and his (01:22:18) commitment terms of watching his Senate career. How did that evolve and it's from here again. It seems like Paul wellstone went to Washington as the consummate Outsider and by the time he died, he had really become a member of the US Senate in the full sense of the word. (01:22:40) See I think that I've been listening to a lot of the commentary as you have and I think the two things can be true at the same time and were true in the case of Paul wellstone on the one hand. He remained an outsider in the sense that if he felt he had to be on the ninety eight to one the one side of a 98 to one vote or ninety-nines one vote. He was willing to be that one on welfare reform when it St. 1996 with the Democratic president the United States deciding to sign it. He was one of the most passionate opponents. So in that sense, I don't think he ever cease to be an outsider when he thought it was necessary. And obviously the war boat is a good example of that on the other hand Paul wellstone, as you know was an incredibly warm and engaging person. He didn't hate people for disagreeing with him on the contrary. He loved a good argument. The result of that was that a lot of members of the Senate including many Republicans came to like him personally. There's a kind of effervescence about him that that sort of grabs everyone and including people who disagree with him. I I think Senator Helms put out a tribute to Senator welshed on now, you can't imagine two people farther apart than that. So I think both were true at the same time when it was necessary for him to be the outsider. He was The Outsider, but he became an accepted and respected member of the institution by sheared in two personality. (01:24:01) We will obviously Miss Senator wellstone here in Let me location and nationally as well. (01:24:07) Oh, absolutely. And as I say, I think it's he'll be missed on two levels one. Obviously the political level where there are a lot of progressives all over the country who saw him as their strongest and most consistent voice and that's why when you go back and look at the money he raised it was lots of 25 and 50 dollar checks from progressives all over the nation. So at that level will be missed but also be missed as a personality. There aren't enough personalities like that. There aren't enough people who get elected to the Senate but still continue to behave as if they were your friend down the street and you pray that people sort of look at his life and say, you know, maybe you can be successful in politics become a United States Senator and still maintain that sense if I can use the word of humility, which I think he always had Thanks. CJ. Appreciate it. Great pleasure. Thank you. (01:24:55) EJ Dionne well-known Washington Post syndicated columnist. He just spent the past week here in Minnesota traveling around taking our pulse as it were and ended up at wellstone headquarters yesterday little did he know at the time what was going on near Eveleth course, Senator Kennedy Senator wellstone his wife Sheila their daughter Marcia three campaign staff members Mary McEvoy. Will McLaughlin Tom lepak and the two pilots aboard Captain Richard. Conray and Michael guess all died when their plane went down just short of the Eveleth Virginia Airport. All eight people aboard were killed. We're holding a Statewide conversation today to remember Senator wellstone and also talk a little bit about some of the thorny issues facing the state leaders political leaders in the wake of The tragedy Mike Mulcahy he's here as well as Bob me car dfl analysts pod care of them. They just mentioned you people think many things of politicians, but they don't think of it as a dangerous profession and yet if you are a member of the Senate, you know that some of your colleagues speak of Ted Kennedy, you know have had major airplane crashes. This is is dangerous work in that little sense for the very staff people. Not just the senator and his family, but the you don't think that your friends that are often working on a campaign are going to end up dead at the end of the day and and the the little plane the flying around business it Is the only way to campaign in Minnesota because of the great distances and you will typically in a campaign you may have the candidate up a hundred a hundred and fifty times all during that whole party part of the process where they're going to organize people for the precinct caucuses and they're going to the conventions and and you know, most the the king are that he was flying in one of the best planes you could possibly have and that it had two pilots that that most campaigns particularly non incumbents would never have the money to afford that so it just took for a lot of people who work in the campaign business. It's just so enormously sad and you think about it this time of year to especially as it gets later in the year and the weather gets worse people have always hated having the precinct caucuses and things in February. We're in you you'd have to go out right in the middle of the blizzards in the ice. It's one of the nice parts of the work Dan Kramer joins us now longtime friend Paul wellstone supporter campaign worker our condolences. First of all, Dan. Thank you so much for joining us. Sorry now we've got you connected again Dan our condolences and we really appreciate you joining us (01:28:18) here. Thank you. It's just been an unspeakable 20 24 hours and part of all we can do right now is talk about how much Paul and Sheila and our other friends meant to us. And so I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do that. (01:28:35) How much did they mean to you? (01:28:37) And I think to me and and almost everyone they came into contact with certainly the other people who worked on the campaign both as staff and volunteers and pulse former students and people he met around the state. They lit us up you whether you knew Paul wellstone for 15 minutes or 15 years. He had an energizing force and he lifted the people up who are around them and made us believe things were possible that might have seemed impossible before we met him or talk to him and The the great gift that both he and Sheila had (01:29:16) what do you imagine people will remember about Paul wellstone down the road people who were not in a position to know him as well as you did. (01:29:26) I think again whether you knew him well or Dent it one thing stands out above everything else which is which is the courage of his convictions. We were talking yesterday a lot of us on the campaign staff and sharing memories and one of my earliest memories of all is when he was a professor of mine at Carlton and he said in a class that you can't separate the life that you live from the words that you speak and that's his philosophy and he never separated the life that he lived from the words that he spoke and that courage of his convictions that Honesty shown through everything he did and I think that's what everyone will remember about him. (01:30:12) What's going to happen to all those folks who are geared up ready to roll up their sleeves for the big pre-election push over at wellstone in quarters, or if I can in many of them coming in from around the country. What do they do now, then (01:30:28) you know, I think all we know right now Gary is to today we're praying and we're hugging each other and that will all be figured out but you know yesterday and today and tomorrow are times for us to pray and hold each other and be together (01:30:48) Dan. This is Mike Mulcahy, you know, it didn't in a way surprise us that Sheila wellstone was on that plane yesterday talked a little bit about the relationship between Paul wellstone and Sheila wellstone. (01:31:00) It was remarkable. It was the strongest relationship I've ever seen between any couple they were Hours in the truest sense of the word Paul's work was Sheila's work and Sheila's work. What was Paul's work? And And they were inseparable (01:31:27) then about me cure it can you tell us something about the three staff people who were on the plane (01:31:34) they were um, they were amazing amazing people. Tom lapack had been with Paul for a long time and was in many ways his closest aide and really alter ego. And in a lot of respects will McLaughlin with Paul's body person under campaign was Inseparable from him and was a young man who's kind of beauty and strength and intelligent just shown through and Mary McEvoy Mary Mack as everyone called her was Just the founding of enthusiasm and everyone perked up when she was around and they are. all three of them beautiful beautiful people who we are all we miss them a lot Dan. Thanks for (01:32:28) taking the time to join us today. And again our condolences. Thank you. Darren Kramer longtime friend supporter campaign worker close associate of Paul wellstone reflecting on Paul and Sheila wellstone and the the other folks who died in that plane crash as well Kevin your comment as our conversation continues this morning. (01:32:54) Yeah, this is a Kevin Chandler. I former Senator white bear I was It was a surreal day for me. I was with Senator Kennedy yesterday and traveling around with him actually for past two days and we were stumping for Paul wellstone and we were the senator was about to give one of his big stump speeches to a hundred hundred fifty people and we got this one confirmed report and pulled the senator aside and whispered it to him. So he was aware of that by the time he had finished we had had confirmed reports that it was true and we pulled The senator and vice president Mondale and former Attorney General Warren spanis and Roger Mo into a side room to talk about it. Mike Freeman. And Senator Kennedy was just absolutely stunned and his eyes welled up and his first and most concern and this is probably coming from unfortunate experience with this sort of thing. He said we've got to find Paul's kids. Where are they? And so we set about trying to find Mark and David and the senator was getting clearly visibly frustrated that we weren't able to find them and that was that was his biggest concern. We decided at that point that we couldn't find them. And so the senator said well, let's let's go over the campaign headquarters and all of us went over and they walk through and this is what is so amazing to me as someone that's been in politics all my life and its people that aren't in politics don't understand what a personal business it is, and they walk through that campaign office Senator Kennedy and vice president Mondale and all the rest Roger MO. And didn't say a word just walk through hugging those young kids that were just devastated and these, you know, I've been on a lot of campaigns and a lot of campaigns people are for the candidate. They're all for the candidate. But these people Paul wellstone is a god figure to them. I mean, they would walk off a cliff for him and they were absolutely devastated and these Kennedy and Mondale and others went through hugged hug them didn't say a word and and it was just a stunning surreal day. You know, it's amazing that you can have such a great date are so bad so fast what Bob was saying about it being a dangerous business is exactly what vice president Mondale said, we were in this room and I said, you know, it's amazing. This doesn't happen more often given how much these guys travel around on these little planes and and vice president Mondale said Kevin you're damn right he it was more friends in this business this way than I think any other way and so I just think it's it's like I said, it still hasn't sunk in yesterday. It was crisis mode for me. So I hadn't really had time to reflect your busy staying focused trying to keep a cool head and it's now starting to sink in for me a little bit Paul and Sheila were warm and genuine people you'd go to the office and in Washington and Sheila would come out and have a hug for you. And also we should really stress the fact that he has this wonderful staff of Jeff Blodgett and Danny Kramer who is just on and Connie Lewis and all the rest. They embodied what the senator was in did such a fabulous job of of channeling his energy and one example is my father died very suddenly in the middle of the night and by noon the next day Saturday wellstone was on the phone consoling me and saying jeez Kevin. I lost my dad not too long ago. And I think about them every day and I know what you're going through and it's you know, like everybody there's not enough you can say about them, but it was just an extraordinary day. (01:37:17) Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate the (01:37:18) call. (01:37:20) Jan is on the line from Duluth with some comments as our conversation continues. Go ahead Jen. (01:37:26) Thank you for taking my call. I'm sitting in a rest stop but I'm a senior citizen and I'm on my way to the rally and st. Paul and I can't tell you how much it meant to me to have someone in representing the in Congress and representing the issues of fairness and Justice. I had the privilege of walking with Paul and his last campaign and I was struck by how hard it was for him when he was in terrible pain out there walking the streets. They have to get on the bus and rest for a few minutes because he really wanted to be out with the people. As a senior citizen, I beginning to understand some of that pain to but I knew when I heard yesterday that he had died. I knew that we had to get out there and walk for him today and the rally so that's where I'm (01:38:25) heading. All right. Thank you Jan. It is interesting. And I think we noted this yesterday many people noted it yesterday that Center wellstones first major vote was against the Persian Gulf War and for all practical purposes his last major vote in the Senate was against the looming war in Iraq kind of Full Circle in the in the Senate and I listened to parts of those speeches last night and was struck by how he defined both of them both the Gulf War and the Iraq resolution as life-and-death questions and particularly. I was impressed by what he had to say as he wrapped up his Comments that he he was a man of fifty eight not 38 and as such he would not be making decisions and casting votes that he didn't believe in deeply. Rachel your comment, please (01:39:28) hi there. Yeah. I just want to share my feelings about his advocacy. Advocacy for mental health parody 10 years ago. I lost a brother to schizophrenia that was 1992. We held a fundraiser for the small Foundation. We established in my brother's name and Paul and Sheila were there and they spoke about how it was important to have mental health legislation. That was not just icing on the cake but was equal to other Healthcare and since 1992. Paul has become a friend of our family's and I thought he and Sheila and Marsha just one week ago today and I'm so grateful that I did get to see them one last time and the one word that I think of when I think of Paul is that he was a true meant he just he was a mensch and that's my (01:40:22) comment. All right. Thank you Rachel. Thank you. Conversation about Paul wellstone continuing here on Minnesota Public Radio and Mike Mulcahy for folks who may have just tuned in perhaps looking for some late news. There really isn't much late news to report it. This point is they're not really although again from the political standpoint. My curling's in the chair of the dfl party is going to talk to reporters in about a half hour to discuss election issues following the death of Senator wellstone. We don't know exactly what he's going to say, of course, we'll go and we'll we'll report later in the day here on NPR what he did have to say we know that the staff people are gathering at the wellstone campaign. Also quite a few just ordinary folks gathered outside contributing to this chain link fence, which has become sort of a makeshift Memorial. We know that the federal investigators are continuing their work near the Eveleth airport trying to a remove the Of the victims of the crash be investigate what caused the crash they say. There was a voice recorder on the plane. We have not heard whether they have located that yet. But that is we understand one of their primary goals at this point and then we have other state officials. Just trying to look through the law and figure out what happens here in this in this strange and sort of Uncharted Place. We've Ended up 24 a little more than 24 hours after that plane went down yesterday want to get some more listener comments on before we wrap up but Bob me, can you give us just a just a hint of what it is that the party folks are are wrestling with right. Now what how do they decide to you know, who's supposed to replace Paul wellstone on the ballot? How does that decision get made the as my catch was explaining the it's the party chair and secretary submit an affidavit to in this case the Her State's office saying who the candidate is Of The dfl Party The Party process and and it's best for Mike to interpret that later today my girl Anson, but the Central Committee is the true governing body of the dfl party in between its conventions in between central committee meetings. The much smaller executive committee is the governing body. I would think it would be options of polling those people not necessarily bringing together a meeting but actually pulling them for their preference as to who the candidates might be. But let me underline one little note here. You'll Paul wellstone did not become the United States Senator because he fit the bill. He became a United States Senator day for exactly the opposite reason and so just to think about people who look good in suits. I think is it would be a terrible mistake and and not really very great in his memory there ought to be more than The Usual Suspects and the people in the wellstone campaign are extremely good at getting their points across to the dfl party. They are the dfl party. And and I think they may come up with some choices that are just not being talked about today Mark your comment about Paul wellstone place. (01:43:55) Thank you. I'm a singer-songwriter from Mahnomen up in the Northwestern part of the state and one fall. I was saying a song at a farm rally a little tiny Farm rally were by Ada and Paul was there along with some other politicians and I sang this song and we visited about it afterwards and about a month or so later. I was invited to come down to a much larger Farm rally down in Laconia. I must been a thousand people there are so Impala was there and lots of other speakers and and he saw me and he said you going to sing that song again I said, yeah, I'm Doing it. I didn't know when I was standing on the platform waiting and he was sitting up with it tables with a whole bunch of other people and finally they entered the guy with was taking a said. Alright now, we're going to take a break and we'll have Mark come up and sing a song and I kind of jumped up on the stage and was getting the microphone set to go and Paul just jumped up and kind of push me off to the side and grab the microphone said wait a minute you people this is not time for a break. This is a real important song listen to it. It's time for you to hear this song. He said and that just the way he was just for us little guys. (01:45:01) Thanks Mark appreciate the comments. Let's go on to Babu joins us from Minnetonka. I believe Bob go (01:45:08) ahead morning Gary morning. First my wife Kathy and I and her son's join all those expressing condolences to all the deceased to the plane crashed just really tough to hear secondly coming at the tail end here. I've heard all the comments and I just keep thinking what I was Honest Abe versus a diddled everything above pick up on the last comment about Paul not becoming the founder because he look good in a suit. I think if he only achieved 52 percent popularity perhaps it's because the other 48 percent ever saw him up close and how he did truly inspire people. I think he joined the race because he believed what you were hungry once said 1967 at what this country needs are critical lovers of America Patriots who Express their faith in the system by working to improve it and that epitomized Paul. I know that he felt very deeply with the honor of representing Minnesota's traditional progressivity and it was just awesome to see him when he actually connected with a crowd and in particular I should say that are manifestations of that leadership that people have talked about one. If you ever had a chance to see his staff work. It was just remarkable truly this man inspired great work. I know what particular just surgery Maki Longtime staff for their and endless hours all the time and just so firmly believed in Paul represented their veterans education issues and national service issues like Americorps for the state Josh is doing a heck of a job my condolences to Josh in particular. What a try to wrap up here, but note that in terms of Legacy several thousand Young minnesotans have finished their Americorps national service experience now and they are using education award to further their college or pay back student loans. That's one concrete manifestation of Paul wellstone. He believed firmly in the community knitting and saw the Americorps program and the senior volunteer programs. Like Foster Grandparents has to your companions retired and Senior volunteer see firmly supported that legislation because he believed that it brought people together. And now those students are former Americorps members are getting their education Awards and using them and I think as the program grows and we're sort of out of the political woods now with it and then increasingly bipartisan support. That was also Inspire Inspire someone by Minnesota because the original legislation authors of that legislation were both Senator Burger. Well stored in 1992, but in some Gary a lot of young people have been Americorps members and they'll continue to be there in part because Paul firmly believed in this and I'll show you one anecdote finally in 1995. There was a 30th anniversary of Vista Volunteers in Service to America and those now Georgetown and small agency. They couldn't spend much money to bring many Vistas in I think five came in from each of the 50 states. We're at Georgetown and Paul came to speak at eight o'clock in the morning and you know, this is a mostly young people so they're not really wide awake at that time. But you talk about someone waking him up and he starts off in that soft voice and if he ever ran a church, he probably had the largest Congregation of the country, but by the end of the few minutes that he spoke he had everybody up on their feet and also, (01:48:24) all right, Bob I do. (01:48:25) Get to a few other cubes while just wanted to leave that message. He was a great supporter of Americorps and allow young people. Remember (01:48:31) that thanks Bob. Appreciate the comments Camille your comments place. (01:48:36) Yes. I just had a small little story about Paul wellstone. My brother was a union official in st. Paul who died unexpectedly in me and he obviously share many of the values of mr. Wellstone, but in particular I as I was walking into the funeral and Sheila and power behind me. I had to take time to relate to he and Sheila. What a hero (01:49:06) I'm sorry Camille, but your phone is breaking (01:49:09) up. Okay, could I get another one here? Okay, my brother first encountered him. I think that a democratic function in southern Minnesota and that evening. I talked to my brother and he said I don't know who this wellstone person is but I'll tell you he sure got the crowd fired up and mr. Wilson got a very large chuckle out of that and he said well it was the beginning of a beautiful friendship between your brother and I and I do treasure that thought (01:49:39) thanks Camille. Appreciate the comments Bob make how is in your mind Paul wellstone going to be remembered 10 15 years from now. What are we going to think about that either he may have either been the last Prairie populist or he was helping create the dawn of new Prairie populism, but In any case unique Irreplaceable, he'll have a successor but it won't be replaced and his the kind of energy and the willingness to be that one vote out of a hundred. That's that's what I'll remember from him. Encouraged Mike Mulcahy. Can you give us a little overview of things to come here that we can expect over the next couple of days? Well, of course, there will be some sort of a funeral or memorial service. We're waiting to hear details of that. Of course people still trying to figure it out. I'm sure over at the wellstone campaign that the terrible terrible details that have to deal with their if you are if you are a family member of one of these eight people who have been killed then there are the other questions the political questions. We are just to 10 days away. From an election that could determine the make up of the United States Senate the state dfl party will have to come up with a candidate. We presume they're working on that. And again, we'll hear from them later today then how does that proceed? There will certainly be some some organizational steps to be taken there. There will be the legal steps that we heard my catch talking about earlier just how this all works and then believe it or not actually an election and from there who does how does it work with the governor appointing someone with someone taking office right away a lot of details left to be worked out in a you know, beyond the shock and the the tragedy of what happened yesterday. We're just going to have to watch this and sort it all out final comment as we wrap up our conversation today that came in via email. This is from Michael in Tracy says even though his politics are more to the left than mine. I really liked Paul wellstone as a senator. I liked him from the first time. I heard him he gave his Maiden speech in the Senate by coming out against Bush senior's resolution to use Force against Iraq. I knew it wasn't politically very smart, but it was ballsy. He was that way all the way through his Senate career using his voice to go defect even during the times when his was the Lone voice. He was feisty he was tough and he was smart may the person who replaces him no matter what party he or she comes from be at least half the person that he was I'm Gary eichten again our condolences to the family and friends of Paul wellstone, and we do invite you to stay tuned would like to thank you for joining us today and invite you to stay tuned for continuing coverage here on Minnesota Public Radio. Have a good afternoon. on Mondays All Things Considered will look at how the political landscape has changed with the