(00:00:00) From Minnesota Public Radio and Kathleen (00:00:02) hallinan opponents of increased (00:00:04) government surveillance in detention of Middle Eastern men in this country cited the treatment (00:00:09) of Martin Luther King jr. (00:00:11) As an example of how the government can (00:00:13) misuse its Authority standing before the federal (00:00:16) building in Downtown Minneapolis Hotel and restaurant Workers Union. Spokesman. Martin golf said congress's approval of the u.s. Patriot Act will adversely affect African and Arab people living in this (00:00:28) country. They can check your computer. (00:00:30) They can tap your (00:00:31) phone. They can listen to your conversations with your lawyers. And generally it's people like the people you see behind me that are the first that are picked up by a government that takes an excessive (00:00:44) amount of power for itself Goff. Another is at the Minneapolis event called for repeal of the Patriot Act. (00:00:52) Businessman. (00:00:53) Peter. Lydell says his investment groups. He's an excellent business opportunity in Fingerhut little Focusing on Fingerhut score catalog business would make it possible to retain current employees while is one of two people looking at buying Fingerhut after parent company Federated Department Stores announced that it would close the company and eliminate about 4,700 jobs. If a buyer couldn't be found a Rochester man is in custody after authorities found an explosive device hidden in an underground gas tank police and Witnesses described the device as a homemade combination of gunpowder and carbon dioxide cylinders. It did not explode fog will lift in Central and Southern Minnesota today. There's a chance of light snow in the north and it will become partly sunny in the South. I should range from 22 near Bemidji (00:01:43) 242 near Rochester. That's (00:01:46) the news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Kathleen hallinan. Thank you Kathleen at 6 minutes now past 12. And good afternoon. Welcome back to midday and Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us today. Of course is the national holiday marking, the birth of Martin Luther King jr. Events are being held all around the state and the nation today to remember the nation's greatest civil rights leader last hour here on. Midday. We heard from award-winning King biographer Taylor Branch this are we've been joined by former vice president and former Minnesota. Senator Walter Mondale who was of course very active in helping pass into law many of the changes that King had pushed so hard for Walter Mondale is joined us today to talk about King's Legacy. The current state of race relations the aftermath of September 11th many other challenges facing America, and we do invite you to join our conversation. Give us a call here at 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities with a question (00:02:49) for Walter Mondale, the number would be one eight hundred two for (00:02:52) two. (00:02:52) To a28 (00:02:54) 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight. Now before we begin our conversation without you be interested in hearing some comments from mr. Mondale on Martin Luther King jr. This was recorded last week. (00:03:07) Well Walter Mondale was introducing Taylor Branch to mondale's colleagues at the door seen Whitney Whitney law firm in Minneapolis. The early part of my public life was literally consumed by the Civil Rights battles in my own political party where we forced desegregation upon a bitter all white Southern Democratic party and in the Senate, When most of the important reforms became law through it all I watched Martin Luther King true to his message of faith and non-violence confront us all with the truth of racial hatred and of the appalling immorality and violence upon which it was based. King was not alone. But his genius his deep Faith his Courage the power of His moral leadership forced us to listen and to respond and we did in perhaps the most profound peaceful social revolution in modern history our nation banned all forms of official discrimination to some that Faith may not sound like much today, but that victory has finally made us one nation. We weren't before it allowed the South to Boom. It unburdened America from the unbearable disgrace of segregation open Millions to The Wonder of American opportunity and I really hope taught us all that together Americans can do wonderful and great thing. I believe that King saved our country. I say this because he was indispensable to the cause and we simply couldn't have gone on as a segregated Nation. There are times in American history like when Abe Lincoln was around when I wonder whether we have been touched by the hand of God, I feel that way about Martin Luther King. Where did he get that faith that never left him. How could he remain devoted to non-violence? When he and everyone around him saw their friends murdered their churches bombed the police dogs attack and for so long saw decent people and the federal government standing aside not wanting to hear about it. Kings non-violence needs to be understood. It was passive. It wasn't passive it was Peaceable, but it was direct confrontation head on people-to-people. They did exactly what authorities said they couldn't do. They sat at the front of the bus at the lunch counters. They tried to vote they march to Selma and George Wallace estate. They launched Freedom Summer to register black votes in Mississippi. When they knew that some of them would be killed Kim King himself knew he was a target for assassination. He also knew that Hoover of the FBI was after him but King kept on coming he kept on marching he kept on preaching his Gospel of faith and justice. And when they finally got him in Memphis it was too late in martyrdom his message grew even stronger the nation by now had changed and we had overcome (00:07:07) former vice president Walter Mondale speaking last week at the door seen Whitney Law Firm. Mr. Mondale is here in our Studios this afternoon to talk (00:07:17) some more about Martin Luther King jr. Talked about civil (00:07:20) rights the aftermath of September 11th, and other challenges facing the nation. And again, we invite you to join our conversation. Our Twin City area number is 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand if you're calling from outside, the Twin Cities, our toll-free line is (00:07:36) 1-800-218-4243. Thanks for coming by today delighted to be here on a very important day. No question about it. The Civil Rights struggle the 40's the 50s and the 60s. (00:07:54) So very very important. You say had essentially changes save the nation, (00:07:59) but do you suppose any of that (00:08:00) has much meaning for people today? Has it been reduced to some kind of sanitized little chapter of history that people look at and say well that's real nice. No, (00:08:13) I'm afraid there's something to that. I think that historians Taylor branch is an example people that were around during those struggles particularly people that were involved in it. Remember these is epic incredibly significant days the changed our nation forever and you know, when you watch a southern professional football team play in Southern stadium, it doesn't occur to us that would never have happened 40 years ago. We had to desegregate that the South has been literally saved by desegregation. It's been allowed to Boom the right of women the the whole profound change in America that that permits an American woman or man to have their own plans their own career possibilities. That is all profoundly changing is directly related to the civil rights movement and Kings leadership of it. I I was involved in international Affairs for many years and to try to do all we did during those years and all that we're trying to do now against a background of a segregated Nation. They would have made mincemeat out of us. We had to come clean on that issue get it behind us be a nation that respected all of our own citizens before we could really try to be a moral force on any other issue around. World, so it was you know, I served as vice president under Jimmy Carter Carter was the first Southerner in a hundred and twenty years to be president and it was possible in part because we had changed ourselves and a southerner to could be strong and have a record on civil rights that would make him acceptable to the rest of the nation. So these are big changes but how much we link the two or how much we simply just accepted as preordained? I don't know (00:10:29) there was a the great struggle to end legal segregation to desegregate Society. Do you suppose people ever had a I don't know human level moral level ever bought into the notion though of integration. (00:10:45) That's of course the big question what the civil rights movement did what we're all trying to do is to deal with those things that Women could handle constitutionally and that was to prohibit official discrimination. That is a school that will not allow a youngster to attend it because they're black or hotel that wouldn't allow guests to register because they're black or employer wouldn't employ somebody because they were black or wouldn't allow the purchase of a home or the rental of an apartment and so on and wouldn't allow someone to vote because they were black that's what we were and this ran all through American society and I say that because what we're about to talk about is very very significant. It's what we have to deal with now but we dealt with it was indispensable to our ability to deal with anything else and we had to prohibit all acts by which a Public body stood behind the separation of Americans because of race and that's what we did. It was profound. It was deep it required massive legislation. The Voting Rights Act actually send registrar's right down into the precinct into the block Federal officials that to change the way in which we vote and so on but where's having gotten rid of official discrimination as a nation and as individuals we have to think about whether there's still not a lot of the vestigial attitudes of prejudice in some cases even hatred that the dogs American life and haunts the lives of too many of our fellow citizens that is something of the heart. It involves our education and involves how parents raised Children, I think it involves stronger efforts on the part of our country to better educate kids that come from poor and disadvantaged backgrounds that a lot that goes into it. (00:13:07) If Martin Luther King jr. Were alive today, of course always hard to make these judgments about what do you suppose would top his list of concerns? (00:13:18) Well, I hope he'd still be giving that message that Taylor Branch was talking about where we were equality acceptance of each other is a fundamental aspect of of America and of our greatness and a fundamental aspect of our faith. And what should be the status of each of us as children of God because that message goes to not just removal of official discrimination but to the real Obligation that we have as fellow Americans to try to help each other have a decent and fulfilling life. So I think he would be talking about those issues today and their modern context. I can hear him giving a strong speech for better education a strong speech for trying to make certain that people were not blocked in the in their employment through subtle forms of discrimination a strong speech for time to make certain there's housing for poor families. This is the problem we got in our community right now and things like that where he'd be trying to breathe reality put skin on the bones of his first efforts and That's that's a job that we all have to continue to work on (00:15:00) you suppose. He would have opposed the US military response to the September 11th attack, (00:15:07) you know here I have to say I haven't the slightest idea he so I can't answer it but I can see reasons why he wouldn't oppose it because this was a direct attack on Americans This weakened America. He was a very patriotic been one of these key parts of his continuing message was that we should do these things. We should open up America in order to make America stronger and one place where this is really work to strengthen us as in our Armed Forces. You just look at Television over there and see who's doing the fighting. We are an integrated American military force and were the strongest in the world and desegregation Integrations had a lot to do with it. So I don't think you can say automatically he did oppose the war in Vietnam, but I don't think that means he's a beaut opposed to use of military strength on All (00:16:06) Occasions former vice president former Minnesota. Senator Walter Mondale has joined us today on this national holiday Martin Luther King jr. Day to talk about To Martin Luther King jr. Talked about civil rights in general and other issues as well. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand or outside the Twin Cities 1-800 to for to to 828. (00:16:32) I'd like to just bring up one thing if I could have that is the unique role of minnesotans in this civil rights struggle. The head of the NAACP is Roy Wilkins who is from st. Paul Minnesota from Rice Street. He was the president of the national NAACP for the egg over 20 years and he was around through all of this struggle a fellow named Clarence Mitchell who's not remembered so well except by historians may have been the indispensable used to call him the hundred and first Senator, he was indispensable in leading the legislative reforms that made this possible he grew up in St. Paul Hubert Humphrey was a Minnesota product. There are a host of black and minority leaders in st. Paul that were indispensable Whitney Young formally once the president of the Urban League got his training here Carl Stokes. There's a whole range of leaders that came out of this state that made a big difference (00:17:42) Walter Mondale is our guest and some callers on the line with questions. If you'd like to join our conversation the number again 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight garrier first. Go ahead Place. Yeah. Thank you. Mr. Mondale. Yes, why was J Edgar Hoover allowed to carry on the way he did for so many years. Well, you know, I don't know if you heard the Taylor (00:18:10) Branch remarks that we heard in the Your time slot but Hoover was living off. I think another (00:18:25) era where (00:18:28) he and the people around him were able to function pretty much as they pleased almost regardless of the law and all of it in private those much of that has been changed since then and I was involved in a lot of those reforms but at the time and I think it's an also sign of letting people stay in office too long a Hoover had been head of the FB I think for almost 50 years and he was he was obsessed by Martin Luther King and he hounded him almost every day for several years. He he was he had spies trailing them. Re where he would plant letters in the newspapers to defame him when it became clear that he was the King was going to get the Nobel Peace Prize. He tried to intervene to block the granting of the Peace Prize. And at one point he even tried to stop the pulp from seeing him. He was just just an obsession that he had and a lot of this was was not known or because the partly the Press was afraid to report on it Taylor branch and his book talks about reporters that knew about what was going on, but we're afraid to directly confront him. It's a this has been reported on by a committee that I served on the church committee. It's all now in the public record. It's really a shameful story. I can recall vaguely that there was a lot (00:20:14) of whispering Ring at the time that somehow Martin Luther King jr. Was a communist. He was tied up with the Communists that if you if you dug deep enough, you would find that this was all part of a great Soviet (00:20:27) plot. And I already I already is now we've gotten into the the secret files of the old Soviet Union and it turns out that while Hoover and others were saying this about King the Soviet Union was in fact targeting King because they resented his moderation. They were afraid that King's message of non-violence and of strengthening America would weaken what they hoped would be the radicalized black Americans who would then join the Communist party. So King's message was the antithesis of a Soviet Union police state the idea of broadened democracy of Of a religious Faith flies directly in the teeth of the Soviet Union that didn't believe either thing they did they were they were and agnostics or worse and they were they hated democracy and they feared the effectiveness of Martin Luther King message would undermine their plans to use Black America to strengthen the Soviet Union. So the great irony is that that inside rumor was was profoundly (00:21:53) wrong might it be that does that explain in any way Hoover's obsession with Martin Luther King. I mean, do you suppose it's possible that he actually believed King was a was a communist working for the Communists and (00:22:07) he there was a report by the head of his New York office. Who was responding to a direct Hoover request to send him evidence proving that King was lined up with the Communists? And this poor fellow send a message back that they had investigated everywhere and couldn't find any basis for it whatsoever. Then there was a letter from Hoover back to this agent in charge of the New York office complaining bitterly that the agent didn't know how to do his job and then there was a letter from the agency saying whoops. I made a mistake. Yes. He was linked with the comments. There's never been any evidence there that that King was afflicted with that problem (00:23:03) Omar your question for vice president Mondale. Hi. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Yeah, I just want actual on my name is Omar Jamel. I'm the executive director of Somali Justice Advocacy Center who in symbol and I want to start off by saying I want really Ghibli. Thank you for Walter Mandela for his great contribution and work. To this country and make it what it is today. Thank you. And and and I have two short questions actually and as a Somali community in terms, it has been we've been dealing with a lot of pressure from the government after the terror attack of September 11 in New York city. So many of us are detained and Nadia has been charged and they've been house searched and business getting shot. And one of the first question I want to ask is what is what how do you evaluate it in perspective of civil rights of the day Society considering this long and struggle of civil rights activism. And the second question is do you think this country can fight against terrorism and at the same time uphold the civil liberties and basic human rights? Can they do can we fight terrorism and at some time respect the Civil Rights and civil liberties of individual granted in the constitution on the principles of the values of this country. My (00:24:27) my answer is the only way to fight it and I'm sure if King were around he would say that his struggle was designed to help all Americans be a part of the fullness of American life and to earn the respect and stature that that flowed from being an American and I feel this so strongly I was pleased when President Bush on several occasions has spoken out about dealing with our fellow Americans who might be Somali or Islamic or from other parts of other part of the world to make certain that that we keep remaking this point that America is not defined by racial religious or ethnic background is defined by our citizenship and and by what we do and how we behave we still need law enforcement we need to But that has to be conducted within the Constitution. I'm kind of I'm absolutely confident that we have all the power that we need to pursue terrorists and to pursue Those who commit crimes without stepping across that line and undermining the inherent Liberties of our citizens. And as I said earlier our moral Authority around the world was his form of what someone called Soft power. How do how does the rest of the world look at us? I think will be greatly enhanced to the extent that we make it clear that whatever this war costs us. It will not cost us the basic fundamental principles of Liberty that Martin Luther King fought for and died for (00:26:21) thank the government has crossed that line that you spoke about (00:26:26) Well, I'm worried about it. I talked about this a couple weeks ago. There's no question that we have some very legitimate fears here. Those cells that were around here that brought these attacks on our the World Trade Center the Pentagon and so on these are horrible things and they we have to find them and we have to punish them. We have to use the FBI and the CIA and other agencies to do that and get cooperation of the other countries and it's not a pretty thing but I think we can do all of that within the law. In other words you can get right now. They say that they're tapping conversations between lawyers and people who are in jail without warrant. Well in the past you could do that, but you had to go to a court and get a warrant. In other words there would be some countability. That's what I've I hope we will. End up doing here. I noticed that at least the first two trials have been called have been regular public trials and I think I think there's a there's a moral stature to that. These trials would be tough. These defendants are not going to get off easy. They will see the power of our law when they've committed awful things and they will see how a jury deals with them. But it's done in a way that we can tell the rest of the world. Yes. We do believe in our system and it applies to (00:27:59) everyone. Is there anybody any institution in society in a position to kind of monitor how this plays out? (00:28:07) Yes. It's called the Supreme Court of the United States and the court systems and is called the Congress our system of laws is full of what's called accountability. Our Founders did not believe in the perfectibility. And the reliability of people in power who were unaware freed from accountability. So the president is accountable to the Congress Congress is accountable to the president. They're both accountable to the courts and in time, we're all accountable to the American people in others checks and balances the as they said we want a pit ambition against ambition that was the idea and so in this system of how we work here now with these this terrorist threat what kinds of laws what kind of law enforcement policies how does this all fit within our Constitution and what's acceptable and what isn't consistent with with our fundamental rules that will be worked out maybe slowly but the Congress is starting to hold hearings. Now, the courts are starting to get some of these cases the stories are starting to come out about how some of these people sat in prison for a Run through to without being charged with anything. I mean this sort of thing will get will hear about it (00:29:32) our guest this our former vice president former Minnesota senator and former ambassador of Japan Walter Mondale. He has joined us today on Martin Luther King jr. Day to talk about dr. King talked about civil rights and some of the many other challenges facing the nation again, if you have a question or a comment, the number to call is six-five 12276 thousand or 1-800 to for 228286512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Neil your question, please yeah, this is Niels Sorensen calling from Minneapolis. My comment is that in terms of obliterating Afghanistan. I don't believe in any case or under any circumstances that Martin Luther King would hit anyway sanction such a devastating attack on any I mean he would of certainly be startled and stunned about the terrorist activities and the terrible repercussions that that will have on american-sized society, but I don't think he would any way endorse widespread bombings and such a campaign and at all and you know what Human Rights Watch in 1999 came out with a startling and impeccably written with great statistics report on Enron and how Enron is abuse human rights and is a racist Corporation in Mozambique and in an end several countries and in India and bushed is taken thow hundreds of thousands of dollars from Enron after that report was issued and Martin Luther King would have adamantly made That connection he would have made that connection first before anybody and now we got thousands of people out of work. Okay, (00:31:35) as I said before and I want to tell the listener the me reaffirm. I don't claim to know where Martin Luther King would have stood on the current war in Afghanistan. I do not know but I know he wasn't a pacifist he did he did oppose the war in Vietnam. He I'm sure he would have been horrified. But what happened to innocent Americans in that attack and would wanted our nation to have strengthen itself in the face of these threats, but no, I don't want to be heard to say that I know where he would have stood on this particular War (00:32:13) Patricia your comment, please hi, I'm mr. Mondale. Hi, I'm a parent and one of the things I'm really glad that you did bring up the people in Minnesota that Really made up a difference. It's very important like now because I've worked in fact, my daughter was sitting here reading your newsletter. My daughter was a fellow. Oh, yes, you know, I'm Patricia Frazier Hickman. Yes. Yes, and he gets hey, I'll be getting in contact with some more. So because one of the things we're trying to do like right now is really bring the history out in Minnesota on the struggle, right? Dr. Benjamin Mays. In fact of he was you know, he did a lot of work here in Minnesota. And I know he was a mentor to Martin Luther King and I remember when you were at Macalester College, I'm at the law school. And when when Jimmy mind, I mean president Mondale was here Carter, I mean president President Carter was here in a so it's very important because one of the issues that I brought out was the whole thing of It's coming out doctor said at Macalester but the University of Minnesota that they come in and they're able to you know, work in different law firms because of mind is a terrible thing to waste even after you work hard to get your kids out of school. Now one of the issues that I brought up, I mean we're like with Taylor when he was here. It's when they talked about in the salsa is this more businesses, but that's why right here in Minnesota. We have to struggle to really make a difference. We have to really like now the struggle is not over we had to be down that capital on the 29th to still bring out some issues of first for all people, but all right. Okay. Thanks. Now we have to (00:34:06) keep working on this. There's no question when I got started. I worked with a remarkable group of young then young leaders Cecil Newman. Who was the editor of the spokesman Nellie Stone Johnson. God bless her Josie Johnson Harry Davis. Got to stop another whole bunch of leaders in our communities that were working on this problem. And we've got to continue to work America can't rest. We have to keep pushing forward toward that dream that Martin Luther King described. (00:34:41) Mr. Mondale. Do you see any easy solution to one of the not ear problems that that Society faces seem certainly is is involved in race in the rest of it. That's a huge gap between the the wealthiest people and the poorest people in America. (00:35:00) I'll tell you what I've worked on a good deal of my public career. We never succeeded in doing much about it, but I really believe should be the next major step and that is trying to bring superb education and help within the reach of poor and disadvantaged. Children during the first formative years of their life. Now, of course, that's the responsibility of parents but there are just millions of kids that grow up without any of the real opportunities that that middle-class Americans have come to take for granted in our wonderful country of and I thank God they do have these chances but a lot of them come from broken homes, they grow up in impoverished dispiriting communities. They go to schools that have that are overwhelmed with disciplinary and other problems often bereft of the resources to try to make up the difference to give special help to kids that are having problems. And so there's far too many of them fail. And then you've got this dreary and sad phenomenon that they fail for the rest of their lives. They don't they don't Thrive. They don't get good jobs that can't hold jobs the disproportionate incidences of crime welfare, and so on in their frustration and many people have talked about trying to do a better job during these early years. I just had a conference on this bringing in experts around the country. But if you ask me the one thing that would really strengthen our nation, every business will tell you that they need more trained educated people every child that that gets a chance gets that spark in their early life. I think is almost certainly going to do better and we will all benefit from that and that if you ask me what we should do be Doing that we're not doing well enough now, I would put my emphasis right there. (00:37:30) A lot of people nod their heads when they hear you talk about this, but the resolve tends to weaken when it comes to time to pass the legislation spend the money. (00:37:43) Oh, there's a lot of resistance to this. I passed a bill along this line when I was in the Senate got it through the house and then my friend mr. Nixon vetoed it and they they said we were trying to Soviet eyes the American Youth what we're trying to do is give him some help. So that parents could get the things they needed for their kids when they come from these poor backgrounds, but that that argument then there's a lot of guilt feelings about you know, what do you teach these children? Are you taking them away from their parents? Which it in fact we were strengthening the family, but there's a lot of it and then how you going to pay for it? Oh, no this Not an easy issue. It's been around a long time. But but if you ask me what could really make a difference in America that would make us stronger and more capable of dealing with the future. I would say start with the kids and work with the parents to make certain these kids really get that Head Start that we've been talking about all these (00:38:47) years Kevin your next your comment, please. Alright. Yeah. I didn't have a question. I just had a comment. I think the history of the struggle is very important and one of the things that's often forgotten is that the successes of of the struggle are often built upon a lot number of failures that people often forget. There's a very interesting figure in Minnesota History that people have unfortunately forgotten a lawyer named Frederick McGee. Who's the first black lawyer to practice law in the state and was an early civil rights leader. He was a founder of the Niagara Movement which was a failed attempt at organized but Later led to the NAACP use the first lawyer to attempt legal desegregation in the United States, but unfortunately failed but his a lot of his work paved the way for the work that the NAACP is done and there's a new biography of him coming out this month from the Minnesota Historical Society, press I thank you (00:39:47) for mentioning him. I will read that book. No, we have to realize that there's almost always precedents around for anything as profound as what king did he was he was not the only person in this movement he was indispensable to it. He was the genius the great spokesperson the spirit and all of that but they're they're a lot thousands and thousands of others that contributed greatly and and a lot of them right here in Minnesota and we had our own discrimination problems when I was a brand new attorney general. I was shocked to find that the housing for the Distorted twins was still segregated the black players and the white players that live in (00:40:31) different 1961 (00:40:33) 1961 and we had a black catcher Earl Battey who called me and said is this right? I said, no. It isn't and was changed. (00:40:46) Hmm. They're looking back on the Civil Rights Movement as I think all with all of history look back on and say well this is all inevitable. This was going to happen how close for example did the nation come to not passing that Civil Rights Act to not passing the Voting Rights (00:41:07) Act. See this is the very important question that that I think speaks to our nation today into this generation and that is on the one hand that when Americans work together when our system works we can do wonderful things and that's what we did. We got rid of discrimination. But you also in reading your history realize how close some of these things were to failing Taylor branch in the earlier lecture talked about how the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was dead in Congress. It wasn't moving 63 part of me wasn't moving. That was the basic Kennedy proposal to finally respond to the king appeal and and and eliminate discrimination in most aspects of American life. It was not moving and it was only the assassination of President Kennedy that so horrified the nation and then the new president President Johnson calling upon the nation to respect to fulfill the work of the martyred present that finally forced the Civil Rights Act through the Congress. And force then the the Voting Rights Act through the Congress in 1965 and I was the chief author of fair housing in 1968. And it was dead. We couldn't we got it through the Senate we couldn't get it out of the rules committee in the house and it was the sassa nation of Martin Luther King that finally they just couldn't say no anymore and we got it out. So I know there's been a lot of close calls in American history and it's been saved by by millions of Americans who get the point and try to make things happen and I hope as we deal with many of our other problems in America that Americans will get this lesson that yes, we can change things we are and these great things don't happen by chance, they happen by choice and by circumstances and what people do with those circumstances (00:43:18) you think Pete circumstances are do you think people have the have the sense that they could actually make much of a difference one way or the (00:43:23) other that's my key. Message the answer is yes, but people are always telling them they can't do it. They're always telling them to be passive that to be cynical that things don't work that voter doesn't make any difference and so on. I don't believe any of that. I've because I've seen too many cases where an aroused America arouse Community can make a difference. I see where me Mao the Hmong lawyer here in town just got nominated for the state senate. Well, here's a really typical American story of immigrants coming here as political refugees because of a battle we were involved in in Southeast Asia Landing here in st. Paul and then this part of Minnesota not speaking the language panelists and then putting their Roots down in the community and in less than one generation produces. Lawyers and doctors and Business Leaders and Civic leaders, and now a member of the state senate freely elected an open election. She's nominated Not Elected yet, but it shows how our system can work in Magic ways to include everybody. I think it's thrilling Linda your (00:44:46) comment. Hi. It's an honor. Mr. Vice president. Thank you. My question is there are all these rumors and things you hear about Martin Luther King and some of the Mistresses and the women he was involved in do you how do you think it would have the ability ated his whole progress had he been scrutinized The Way Clinton was more recently scrutinized back at his (00:45:09) time. Well, you know, I don't know. I know that Hoover was trying to follow up on him and he was trying to leak rumors about King. And women and I don't think for three or four years King ever went to a hotel room where made a telephone call that that we weren't listening and those rumors were out whether I don't think the Press paid much attention to it. I can't answer your question. I think the magnificence of Hoover's I mean of Kings leadership stands out there as a Marvel but like all of us there are spots we're human (00:46:02) is that the kind of thing that the media should should report on let us say that Martin Luther King. We're back in the 1960s and could do all of this all over again and he's obviously a major figure leading a major social movement. And then of course all the stories come out is that the kind of thing that the media should be reporting on (00:46:25) Off my view is that anybody in public life must expect report on the truth of his is his being certainly true in politics. I sometimes think the press wallows in it over does it maybe not sometimes sufficiently introspective and I think if you go back to Martin Luther King to think days that these rumors were widely reported they weren't suppressed but Kings leadership was so magnificent that that they accepted him with the together with the spots. Hmm (00:47:16) you suppose if he were alive today people would be paying any attention to him. I mean forget about the the rumors of his womanizing he was out if they marched Around talking about by golly. We got to do something about poverty and we've got to do something about this problem and that problem kind of thing where people say I Googled go away (00:47:34) I would say that he would still be drawing strong response from the American people because his message is Taylor Branch pointed out was was was brilliant. He was talking about first of all strengthening America by living up to American ideals and tapping the strength that each of us can bring to our country because we're given this opportunity for the fullness of American life and were protected from the kind of racial ethnic abuse that we see in Kosovo or that tear these countries apart. So it's a strong message of a strong country. And the second is the is the religious message of our Christian judeo traditions of The of the status of each of us have children of God and and the strength and the and the gravitas that ought to flow to us from those profound concept. That's what he was saying. It wasn't a message of that that was diminishing anybody. It was a message to enhance an enlarged the the greatness of this country. The details would be different now, but I'm confident that King were he alive today would still be talking to us in those terms and we need to hear this message a lot (00:49:03) next caller is from st. Cloud been go ahead, please. Yeah, I would just like to share a quote with mr. Mondale. This is from his letter from the Birmingham Jail and he says over the past few years. I've consistently preached that non-violence demands that the means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek. I've tried to make clear that it is that it is wrong to use immoral mean To attend moorlands and I think that Hannah this national holiday celebrating his birthday. It's a travesty that we would question his nonviolent ethic and say that it's conditional because I fully believe that if it had been conditional the Civil Rights Movement would have erupted into terrible violence and I think that the only way we can keep his dream alive is to continue to remember his legacy as being purely nonviolent and not conditional. Thank you. (00:49:54) I agree with you I and in the introduction I made of Taylor Branch the other day I said that I thought that King ability to sustain and never Bend in his advocacy of non-violence was indispensable to the success of his cause he was under tremendous pressure from black leadership like Malcolm X and some others that that argued that the blacks were being. Yup, discriminated against and even killed their churches were being blown up and all of this violence visited upon them. Why would this King come along and argue that the blacks should be nonviolent? And why could why did he talk about a strong America when America had been so unkind to the black king would not listen to that he argued from the beginning to the end in he was a disciple of Gandhi's to he saw what non-violence did in India and it was that high moral ground that approach that talked about reason and faith and an appeal to people's better selves that prevented this whole struggle from deteriorating into a bloody. Explosive hatefulness, and yes, I give King enormous enormous credit. And as I said in my remarks earlier, I think through that approach. He saved the country (00:51:37) not a lot of time left. But while I have you here, I can't help but pass up a quick. (00:51:43) Well (00:51:44) President Bush has finished his first year in office. How's he doing? (00:51:48) I think in the war he's doing quite well, and I've said so but I think we've got a lot of problems here at home that need attention and I think we've got to start doing that (00:52:04) a real wave of patriotism followed the September 11th attacks the kind of a sense of community. Let's all pitch in and you expect it. That's his that waned already. Is it going to the kind of disappear here and go back to our little (00:52:19) cocoons? Well, I certainly felt that I think everybody did I'll never forget that day and Capitol steps when what 40 thousand people showed up there while it was raining to express Unity patriotism resolved in a way that I'll never forget. No America did come together is together. And I think that's very fulfilling but as a part of our patriotism as with all previous generations, we also have to deal with our problems. We have to debate issues that and which we disagree and we have to move forward that's that's patriotism and its finest sense because it allows us to grow to strengthened be more just to be more respected around the world. That's that's what I think we must (00:53:20) do. Do you get the sense that that will have a good Debate and yet be able to stick together as a people. (00:53:29) We always have (00:53:34) any last thoughts of mr. Mondale before we wrap up here on Martin Luther King Day. What do you want people to remember about? Dr. King? (00:53:40) Remember that one man with a deep Faith with a lot of personal courage and with a brilliant profound belief in the potential of America for improvement brought a message to the American people and with the help of thousands and then millions of others changed our country in a profound way, which it makes it much much. More wholesome and hopeful (00:54:13) always got to talk with you. Thanks so much for coming in today. Thank you our guest today former vice president former Minnesota. Senator Walter Mondale joining us on Martin Luther King jr. Day to talk about Martin Luther King jr. Civil rights and a whole variety of other issues. By the way, if you missed part of this conversation will be re broadcasting this program at 92 night here on Minnesota Public Radio. Also, we should remind you that Minnesota Public Radio is listener supported because you listened we do. Hope you'll become a member and it's very easy to do just log on and sign up at Minnesota Public Radio dot-org that. Does it for our midday program today tomorrow over the noon hour We're Off to the National Press Club. We're gonna hear from Franklin Raines who is Chairman and chief executive officer of Fannie Mae one of the real key institutions here in this country in terms of housing the rest. That's tomorrow at midday Gary eichten here. Thanks for tuning in today. (00:55:11) I'm going to Cunningham the 2000 census numbers show a dramatic increase in Minnesota's minority population a Monday's all things considered a conversation on the advances and setbacks to civil rights in the state. That's all things considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public (00:55:24) Radio. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a cloudy Sky 24 degrees at Kinder wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul partly cloudy and Mild all day and it could hit the mid 30s yet today partly cloudy tonight with an overnight low in the middle 20s, then tomorrow a repeat cloudy Breezy and Mild with a high temperature in the low 40s. It's one o'clock.