(00:00:00) With news from Minnesota Public Radio. Good morning. I'm Steven John State Health commissioner. Jan Malcolm says minnesotans should get flu shots this year. Malcolm says getting a flu shot could help reduce the incidence of diseases that may be confused with Anthrax early symptoms of Anthrax are similar to flu symptoms. Malcolm says minnesotans can do their part in the fight against bioterrorism by taking care of their health. She says that includes getting a flu shot as you know, I mean station isn't a hundred percent effective. It's not that everybody who gets a flu shot is guaranteed not to get the flu, but it certainly reduces your likelihood of getting the flu if we can cut down on those those flu symptoms that are going to be showing up in the hospitals and the doctors offices. It'll sure Health Hospitals and Clinics are expected to be well stocked with the flu vaccine by mid-november a state workplace safety investigation into the death of Minnesota Vikings tackle Korey Stringer produced no citations against the football team Stringer died after suffering heat stroke during the Vikings practice in Mankato on July 31st. Today when the heat index registered 99 degrees a spokesman for the Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry says the length of the Vikings practices and the activity of players did not exceed State guidelines a Minnesota company that makes airplanes has plans to expand the role of its Grand Forks plant Duluth based Cirrus design is hiring more workers and seeking to upgrade its industrial park facility in Grand Forks in the past two months. Serious is Grand Forks Workforce has grown by some 14% to 145. Mostly cloudy in the north this morning becoming partly cloudy. They're mostly sunny and Breezy elsewhere highs in the mid 40s Northeast to the low 60s in the south west currently in Grand Rapids. It's cloudy and 43. Austin is sunny and 55 in the Twin Cities sunny and 52. That's news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Steven John. Thanks Stephen six minutes past eleven o'clock programming and Minnesota Public Radio is supported by the iron mining Association of Minnesota producers and suppliers promoting a strong mining industry. We build America every day and good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us experts tested a postal facility in st. Paul overnight for the presence of Anthrax. The mail Recovery Center is one of three in the nation that handles dead male that's letters and packages with no return address much of the mail processed in st. Paul comes from the East Coast where of course some postal workers have contracted Anthrax, but postal officials say the tests were being in run in St. Paul purely for precautionary reasons. No Anthrax tainted mail has been found in Minnesota and they say there have been no indications of Anthrax at the facility. However State Health officials say it will be at least two days, maybe more before the results of those tests are known and sort of senator. Paul wellstone has been pushing hard for the st. Paul facility to be tested and he joins us from the US Senate in Washington today to talk about the anthrax threat the war and whatever you'd like to talk with senator. The body if you have a question for the senator, give us a call here, six five one two, two seven 26,000. That's our Twin City area number six five. One two, two seven six thousand. If you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach us toll free and that number is 1-800-321-8633 one or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Our Guest this morning is Minnesota. Senator Paul wellstone Center. Thanks for joining us. (00:03:33) Thanks for having me Gary man in my coming through. Okay loud and clear sir. Okay. I can I can hear my ex. I wonder if there's a way that I can do away with the echo as I speaking to you. I'm hearing my own voice which is strange hard to do. Let's see if we can keep track will keep trying to go forward but it would be better if if I could do it so I don't hear myself. Anyway, thank you for having me and I usually were together and I apologize we had to hold this if you will. Meeting Senator de Medici Pete diminish and I with all the different Advocates and organizations that deal with mental health because we finally after a half a decade have passed a major Civil Rights bill in the Senate side is an amendment of the labor Health and Human Services appropriation bill, which ends all discrimination and all mental health coverage for all people throughout the United States of America and the good part about that would be that the care will follow the money. And so if the health care plans provide the funding you're just going to see a lot more care to people given to people so we are trying to figure out how to keep this in the conference committee. But anyway, that's why I'm not back with you (00:04:44) right? Well, hopefully the technicians can get to work here young to get this squared away in the meanwhile, sir. Are you satisfied that the postal workers here in Minnesota are getting adequate protection. (00:04:57) Well, the when you were talking about the mail Recovery Center in your in your right pushed hard to get this environmental and along with Senator Dayton, you know, what really happened is that I had called Mark and I said, I think it would be really important for us to meet with the postal workers and with management but because and I've said that to everybody in the Senate and I'd say it and I haven't had a chance to say the people in the house, but that really, you know, people just appreciate having the chance to talk with you and making sure that their voice is heard and then when we met I didn't really realize that we had one of these three recovery centers in the country and the potential risk and vulnerability and there were other issues that were raised to you know, just need to have some clarity about if a postal worker is concerned who he or she goes to who does the testing who pays for it just to make sure that the employees and the workers who are absent after all no more of the potential dangers are included in the decision making and the Elation as to how to better protect our Workforce that that was what it was all about. And then when this was brought up, I thought you know, what had happened is a number of the workers had look we've been trying to get the Postal Service to come out and and they haven't been willing to and it seemed to me that we needed to have that done. So I'm glad I I'm very pleased that this has happened and I hope the results will be good results for us and there will not be any evidence of any contamination (00:06:30) based on what's happened so far Senator, not only you know with the testing here in st. Paul, but of course what's happened on the East Coast primarily right can people be confident that they're getting the best most accurate information available from Health officials? (00:06:49) Well, I think I think people can be confident that the people in government and others, you know Center for Disease Control FBI. You name it or doing their best that's not exactly the direct answer to your question. But here's what I really mean to say another proposal that I made the other day before the government Affairs Committee in terms of some of the changes we can make is I do think we need clear line of accountability. I think we need one person who is is really if you will the person who speaks to the Nation about this someone with authority someone who is not only a scientist or a doctor but a teacher as well and and and I think that and I think frankly that should be someone from the Center for Disease Control or should be the Surgeon General David satcher. I say that because I think you know part of the problem has been I think in the name of trying to reassure people at least initially some of It was reported in turn out to be true in which case then you're in real trouble. If you say well, you know, for example here, you know, the original report was it was garden-variety Anthrax in the daschle letter and we're in the Hart building. We've been shut down in the building's been contaminated or parts of the building turns out it wasn't garden-variety and then told that no one will get sick or or it will not be serious or things like that was said beginning and of course that's not true lives have been lost. So I think it's I think clearly going to have to do better and I would like to see one person really be the spokesperson then I'd like to see that happen at each state level as well and and hopefully that will happen then there are other issues of course, which is we don't have I mean, we really have to have much more of a public health infrastructure and we need to get the resources whether it be the vaccine or whether it be the antibiotics or whether it be the people that are trained to recognize whatever God forbid we might have to deal with this not there yet. And that has to happen ASAP and the same can be said for you know, our firefighters and police and First Responders and that again that they have the resources the training and the resources that they need a ultimately we're going to best be able to protect people where they live or where they work or where their children go to school. It's going to happen at the community level. I think we were not there yet. Hmm (00:09:13) turning to the military action any second thoughts Senator about supporting military action in Afghanistan. (00:09:21) Well, no given given what I've always said which is you know the position And I one thing I always try to do is almost it's just a kind of get by myself at a certain point in time and just say what is the right thing to do and and you think heart deeply about it and you do your very best to make the best decisions my own my own view is as follows, you know, I said to myself a is it a morally justifiable goal to try to seek a world where terrorists are not free to rain and my answer is yes. We're Terrace can train free man said was yes would force be one of the options that's necessary along with others and my answer was yes, and I think that's true. Now the question then becomes what kind of force and and I certainly there couple of I think I mean I yesterday was at a briefing with Pentagon and and state department and I raised I'll just tell you and minnesotans the questions that I've raised which I think absolutely have to do is One set of questions around humanitarian relief and which I'm very focused on perhaps as focused as anybody in the Senate. I'm have some great people that work with me that happened to have a lot of expertise in this area. And and the truth of the matter is the people the real problem or the internally displaced refugees the people who were stuck in Afghanistan who are the most vulnerable and we're about 40% of where we should be if if we are to meet the goal of getting the food to people that we need to get to People by January 1 in order to avoid massive starvation. So I don't I'm not satisfied that we have put the same effort into this that we need to put the effort into this and we need to and I've made a number of suggestions as to what we need to do and I'll go over them with you if you want but that those so I have some questions there because I think Not only would it be inconsistent with our values to sort of just turn our gaze away from what could be a humanitarian catastrophe but second of all, I don't think you want to have At least in the Islamic or Muslim world people if you will associating people starving to death with our our use of force, even though it's not a one-to-one correlation. So it's in our national interest to meet this challenge the second set of questions. I've raised is you know, maybe I don't mean to be facetious is the best way to put it what has been the impact. I mean I said from the very beginning of given speeches on the floor to put it into writing that look, you know, we have to and I'm going to continue to press the case we have to take we have to everything that's humanly possible to avoid innocent people being killed and the question is, how are we doing with the swing voters if you will in the Islamic world in the Muslim world, and I think they're with and I think there are real questions about that as to whether or not our people turning away from Taliban or toward Taliban. Are we seeing more people radicalized? How is the is the broader wider Islamic Muslim World responding to the air campaign and I I think there are some real concerns here in questions to be raised because so far. I think the reports are not that encouraging and that's critically important because look I hate saying this boy. I hate saying this I wish to God I didn't believe it. I think that the terrorism Gary is going to be a part of our lives and our children's lives. I think it's going to be a part of the world. We live in now and it's not going to be resolved overnight. It's going to be a long long long difficult struggle and we're going to need a lot of people in the near east and south Asia to help us in counterintelligence. We're going to need a lot of allies. We're going to need a lot of supporters. And so we have to make sure that when this is ultimately over we land in the right place and and certainly, you know, I have questions about that. (00:13:17) Does that lead you then Center the conclusion that we should stop our bombing campaign at least in Afghanistan to facilitate delivery of humanitarian Aid and also (00:13:27) Try to win the support of (00:13:28) these people in the middle as it (00:13:30) work. No, but but it does leave me. I mean, we're first of all it's interesting among the people that deliver humanitarian Aid. There's really quite a split as to whether or not there should be a halt in the bombing or not. I mean for my own part what I have been advocating but secretary pal and and then again yesterday and in writing and I think it could happen is the development of what you might call humanitarian relief corridors, especially coming in the northern part of Afghanistan where the Taliban are not so much in control and where most of the potential starvation is going to take place where you basically at least coordinate so that there isn't the bombing taking place while the truck convoys and moving in or Berlin kind of airlifts where you'd not drop in food from 40,000 feet, which frankly has reached about maybe one half of one percent of the population but where you really land and and then from there so you don't want to bomb all of the airfields in Afghanistan, especially in the low conflict areas and from there you can get out with Two people. I think that's what I've been advocating right now. And I think it's but I'm continuing to raise the questions and and and and I'm continuing to to talk to as many people as possible. Especially people that are on the ground. It's a little harder to get reports as to what's actually happening. That's that's what I feel. I need next. Let's get to some (00:14:52) listener questions. Senator. Paul wellstone is our guest this our lots of callers on the line with questions for Senator wellstone Mike your first go ahead, please. Good morning Senator. First of all, this is Mike from Rochester. And yeah, I just want to thank you, I guess for your public service. I am a republican but I do (00:15:10) understand seeing in the conversation. (00:15:12) We need some dissenting opinions in the Congress and I just appreciate the hard work to do for the state of Minnesota, even though I don't always agree with you, but my question goes to whether or not you as a part of the administration are convinced and Satisfied that the folks conducting operations in Afghanistan do have clear objectives know when they're going to I mean, they know the definition of complete and they're marching toward that definition. The president has repeated this to us several times as well as other leadership, and we have to trust them, but you are the representative of the folks in Minnesota. Are you satisfied that our folks know what needs to be done and are doing what needs to be done. (00:15:56) Well, first of all, I appreciate the first thing you said that thank you. I have a don't know if I can give his definitive answer as I wished I could give I mean I think in both the official Foreign Relations Committee hearings where secretary Powell has testified my core or just meeting with him and others in private. I'm impressed. I'm impressed with his understanding that this can't be one just on the military front. I'm impressed with his understanding that we have to be very very careful that Bin Laden is not able to turn this into an Islamic World. Apocalyptic Islamic World Western World struggle it but I don't but I also think that I'll tell you where I think the ambiguity is although I don't have the answer to the question and this is one that I'm thinking about all the time and I don't have the answer the question in my mind. Maybe in yours is whether or not but and again understanding that three weeks is kind of you can't judge a military campaign on the basis of three weeks, but whether or not the airstrikes Will be in conjunction with the Northern Alliance, which I think we've relied on. I mean to sort of go in on the ground whether or not that will actually be effective in. Basically getting Bin Laden and tear and terrorists and also, you know the holding the Taliban that that have harbored these terrorists accountable up-to-date doesn't seem as if we've been able to do that through airstrikes alone at all. And so the question is what's then necessary what will be next and and and will it be will it be you know Commandos? Will it be wider a ground force? What kind of War we talking about under? What conditions how do we Define the victory? I think those are Frankly, I think the questions now that are before us end and I think the administration is going to do you know is going to I think they're starting to say this to the public, you know in trying to sort of say look this doesn't get one right away. So on and so forth, but I would be interested in more clarity on exactly. What is the journey were taken and where do you expect that your this journey to take us (00:18:34) Joel your question, please. Hi. Good morning Senator wellstone. Thank you for taking time out. I'm sure you got a lot on your plate these days and I appreciate you taking time out for questions. I just had a question about the Senate's proposal for federalizing baggage handlers seems like three terrorist attack the baggage handlers that baggage checked before we're doing a good job. As far as I understand. They were allowed people were allowed to take box knives are small knives onto planes at the time and now they want to know it sounds like the Senate wants to pass a lob federalizing all that and sounds like pretty calm. We feel good measure. I don't know whether it would you know, it's really necessary sounds like nothing's happened. No, no Knives have nobody's taking the knife onto the plane or whatever since September 11th. The new legislation is passed. I didn't know if you had any comments on that. All right, let me let me clarify that or move it ahead down the road just a little bit Center last night of core. The Senate did pass a bill which would Federal eyes all the baggage screeners last night the house passed a different bill which would not federal eyes all the baggage screeners, but would provide for federal oversight. So now you folks right up in a conference committee. Can you accept the house position on this or you gonna hold out for the for the full enchilada (00:19:52) for the full enchilada? Well a couple of quick things that responds to Joel We actually what three or four weeks ago passed the Joel and 42 Federal eyes it and what you make from your question may not agree with but it was it was a hundred zero vote in the Senate and I don't In but I thought there was really something you said that was important. It's not not I don't think as widely recognized as it should which is that a lot of the you know, men and women that have been working two security guards have that's a hard job. I mean, I'm just thinking the other day I said to show the way and you know, you're looking at that computer screen every baggage that's coming in there and the pressure you're under what if you make a mistake and can think about what the consequences would be and part of the problem is and I've seen it because you know, we're at our airport all the time. Is it over the years people have been making 650 and seven dollars an hour without any health care benefits and they leave in 3 months if they can find a better-paying job and I think that I think it is law enforcement and I think you should have it. I think it should be part of a federal Workforce National Security highly paid professionals. I think the people that are working in our airport right now should have first priority. Excuse me to receive that training and take those jobs as to Gary's question. Know where the middle ground is going to be yet. I think that interestingly enough the public overwhelmingly favors a federal Workforce and and I'm not you know Fritz Hollings who's been really the lead leading this on the Senate side could give you a better idea as to where the point of compromise will be. My guess is that there's going to be and has to be because I do think we have to make some of these changes and should but I can't tell you where that middle ground will be it (00:21:37) John your question, please hi Senator wellstone. Thanks for taking my call. Thank you. First day want to thank you for working to ensure that the undeliverable mail center in st. Paul was properly tested for Anthrax. I'm a real man in Brainerd and I use my own vehicle to deliver mail and us the van that I piyo meal into for my job is also used to transport my children after I'm done with work. Can you address the issue of cross-contamination and work to speed up the move toward sanitizing the mail by irradiation of that is an is a viable option other thing. We're applying the (00:22:13) radio. Well just to say two things if it is a viable option. I'm all for it and second of all, so that's my answer anything that can assure your safety and I guess the way you put a John probably is exactly the way you should have put it which is also the safety of your children. I'm for and including this proposal is long as you're on the line, I think. It does need to be said to everybody that you and others are really on the front line today and and are still delivering mail and involved in public service under some very stressful conditions, you know? Yes God thank God in Minnesota. We haven't had Anthrax letter. We haven't had people die. But you know people are under John. I mean one thing I learned from the meeting of talking to just a variety of different employees and workers. Is that everybody, you know every day they're more on alert and look at letters differently and feel the pressure and feel the stress. So I think I'm not trying to be mr. Politician here, but I think people really ought to give you a wheel a real debt of gratitude to you and others and I want to say that (00:23:32) Our Guest this our Minnesota senator Paul wellstone joining us from the US Senate in Washington to take your questions again, if you'd like to call in with a question if you get a busy signal all of our most of our lines are busy right now just hang up and hang on for a little while we'll get to some more questions some of the lines will free up our telephone number is six five one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight 286512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight and we'll get to some more calls here in just a couple minutes. (00:24:10) Too marvelous, too marvelous for Words. Hi. I'm David brancaccio. Where can we begin to tell you how much your support of public radio means to us? It's great listeners like you who help pay the bills at your station and keep programs like Market Place on the air for everyone to enjoy. Thanks for doing your part and rest assured that we'll continue doing our part to bring you the kind of quality programs. You expect from your public radio station. Thanks. (00:24:37) Yes and let me add my thanks to all of you who've been so kind with your contributions as well news headlines now here Stephen John Stephen. Thank you. Gary. Federal officials say it's still too early to draw any conclusions about the source of the anthrax mailings Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge and FBI director. Robert Mueller say investigators are trying to reconstruct the life of the New York woman who became the nation's fourth Anthrax fatality National Guardsmen are patrolling on San Francisco Bay Area Bridges following the latest Federal terrorism warning the FBI says, Maybe planning to attack major west coast bridges in the next few days President Bush is again urging Congress to pass an economic stimulus package to ward off more job losses. The President says his administration and Congress have to work together to extend and expand jobless benefits the unemployment rate climb 25.4% last month again of a half of one percent since September. That's the biggest one month jump in more than 21 years orders to u.s. Factories are down for the fourth month in a row. The Commerce Department says orders fell by five point eight percent in September that's only slightly worse than economists had forecast a new poll shows Randy Kelly with a narrow lead over J. Been of in the st. Paul mayor's race. If the in the Minnesota Public Radio st. Paul Pioneer Press poll of likely st. Paul voters 45 percent said they plan to vote for Kelly 39 percent favor been enough 16 percent were undecided the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources wants Hunters. To report any sightings of sick-looking dear when the season opens tomorrow. It's looking for any signs of chronic wasting disease. The DNR wants to collect up to 50 random deer heads this year for testing the element comes from the same family as mad cow disease and is not known to be transmissible to humans. Mostly cloudy in the Northeast this morning with a chance of showers and becoming partly cloudy there otherwise, mostly sunny and Breezy Statewide highs in the mid 40s Northeast to low 60s South West. They weekend looks mild 41 degrees in Bemidji right now in Rochester sunny and 53 in the Twin Cities. It's mostly sunny and 52 Gary. That's the latest. Thanks Dave and 29 minutes before twelve. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio and our guest this hour and it sort of senator Paul wellstone who joins us from Washington again, if you have a question for Senator well, so let me give you the phone number don't dial right now because you're going to busy signal and you just get frustrated, but give us a couple minutes. Some of the lines will clear 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two four two two. To a read out your question for Senator wellstone. Yes, Senator wellstone. It's a privilege to speak. Zeke thank you would have to say that I have concern and I really don't understand the recent approval of two billion dollars of military aid for Israel. And in view of the fact that it doesn't seem that we are getting those two countries to the peace table. Okay. You want me to run it go ahead and speed (00:27:38) as you want that you want to respond that question. Yes, please. Okay. Well, thank you. Well a couple of things I mean I'm going to divide it into two A and B and the a part of it is I wrote a piece. Oh, I don't know six weeks ago, I guess in the Christian Science monitor. before September 11th, so maybe it was a and it basically was a piece where I argued that the that there is no future in the Middle East if Israeli children and Palestinian children are going to be killing each other for generations to come and I argued basically that the Mitchell report written by Senator George Mitchell is absolutely the framework. In other words. There has to be a political settlement and and I feel very strongly that that is the case and I think our government has to be kind of the main mediator we've tried it before I think it's essential that we do it now, so it could be that part of your question. I'm going to agreement with in that in that I and and and I've been real clear that as to what I think is necessary for this to happen and that includes given the part of Israel and the Palestinians are on the second part. I don't think that we can cut off Aid to Israel. I think that there is a Standing historical Alliance. I think the Israelis have a pluralistic and Democratic with a small D politics and I don't and I and also I think that it would be completely counterproductive. If we were just to eliminate assistance. In fact, I would one I would worry about the ways in which I think that would further encourage radical elements in in the Middle East. So I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't agree with (00:29:37) that Senator. There is a theory as you well know that one of the major reasons that we were attacked on September 11th is because of our policy in the Middle East in the sanctions on Iraq. Would you agree with that theory? (00:29:50) No, let me not I think For the following reason and again, it's all of this has to be said with with sensitivity. I mean, I don't agree with it because I don't see I don't see a one-to-one correlation or causation and moreover. I think if if you not you Gary but it's a collective you are not careful your you're going down the road of arguing a justification for the mass murder of people. There is no justification for the mass murder of innocent people, which is exactly what happened in our country. So I don't I refuse to equate it with any, you know causes of these kind, you know, it's kind of like as I've said it's sort of like when Matthew Shepard young gay man was murdered and Wyoming, you know, people didn't call on me to to speak out about what could have caused the men who murdered him to hate him, right? We focused on the fact that he was Now so that's my first point now have a second point. You know me. I always have a second part right third and a fourth and a fifth and no kidding. Now the second point is do I think that and you know, I'm lucky enough to chair the subcommittee on the near east and south Asia and we're going to have a whole set of hearings about where we go politically and what lessons can be learned and and certainly I think there are plenty of lessons to be learned. I mean and some of them are right now kind of staring Us in the face the biggest and I've got into a quick story. I had the most amazing meeting. I don't want to I don't want to just bash him, but my gosh the Ambassador from biggest and came in the office the other day not terribly diplomatic very angry at me because I pass this amendment on the senate floor that said wait a minute, you know, this country is our they're our allies, but you know what? This is a government that has raped murdered tortured. It's Since many of whom they've raped and murdered tortured because they practice the Islamic faith. So if we don't want people to hate us we have to be careful about what governments were so closely tied to these become, you know, there's all these human rights issues. There are there's all these questions about, you know, look there's a whole history with Africa Afghanistan and the Pakistani ins the I think the pakistanis. I mean, I don't think that the lot of the people believe that we will ever be there for economic development money because we've always we've always cut and run in the past. So there are lots of lessons to be learned and and yes, it would certainly help certainly help if there was a split achill settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians that would make a difference but I would never argue a one-to-one causation or correlation to what happened September 11 that I don't think any of us should because what we end up doing is inadvertently, you know in some sort of indirect way justifying How can it ever be justifiable? How could it ever be connected to anything to to to slaughter innocent people Camus once said murder is never legitimate and he was right. (00:33:06) Do you think as the u.s. Searches around for terrorists around the world? No Qaeda among them topping the list of course, but should we also be targeting Hamas Hezbollah some of the groups in the Middle East that the Israelis would say are clear terrorist organizations. Many of the Palestinians would argue quite on the you know, the universe that know their freedom fighters, (00:33:29) right? Well the answer is I mean in the short run we have our hands full with Al-Qaeda and I think that the it's not as if this is all been that easy, right? And so I think that is the initial Focus but in the long run, And again, I think it has to be far more the International Community and not just the United States alone. I think it tends to be more of us alone right now with the Brits. Help Brits being strong Ally. I think we do have to focus on International terrorism Biondo Qaeda. (00:34:08) Rich here question, please. Hi appreciate the open Forum Gary and with Paul today question I have is whether the administration and the Congress is aware that there are other coalition's besides the Northern Alliance that are resisting the Taliban in Afghanistan and our other discussions to support them as well. The Northern Alliance really represents about 15% of Afghanistan and there is a southern Alliance that is mostly an exile in Pakistan and on the east and south and they represent the pashtun population, which is the majority of the Afghan right and population. Is there talk about supporting their resistance as well on October 22nd on as it happens CBC Canadian broadcasting on Minnesota Public Radio. There was a discussion that they basically seem to be ignored and mobilizing them to push from the from the East and across the South. (00:35:07) Senator well, I can't Rich give you the sort of if you will the precise. Battle plan operational battle pant plan, but I will tell you the past June what you say is so important because we would be making the hugest mistake in the world as you as I can tell, you know from just the premise of your question. If we were to rely on the Northern Alliance I said to Sarah Palin a farm Relations Committee here in about two weeks ago. I'm skeptical as to what they're actually going to be able to do militarily but above and beyond that they have a record of past record of just egregious horrible brutal human rights abuses and and among the platoon and others. They have no subtitle support so it can't be done that way. And so my hope is that the answer your question is yes. I mean, you know, one of the problems is that we have not had a lot of people over in recent years on the ground in terms of intelligence and in terms of understanding who our friends are and who our enemies are we have in the past. Helped create a lot of evil people there, you know because you know, we've never quite known, you know, we've supported people who end up being some of the really worst characters worst actor so and and there are all sorts of different as you well know all sorts of different groups and organizations and splits and everybody, you know one day is your friend, but I don't my hope is that we've done a good job of sorting this out on the ground. I'm not depends on who you talk to. I've talked to some former CIA people. For example who were real worried that we have it (00:36:48) one of those big picture questions for you Senator, and I guess it relates to the immediate situation and certainly longer term as we look at our foreign policy. What what should the u.s. Do when it's faced with a choice of supporting a pro-western? Watercraft basically a dictator type of government versus an anti-western government that enjoys popular support (00:37:19) a pro-western government, (00:37:22) you know. Yeah. Well you were just referring for example. Yes Becca Stan. Well, they're on our side right now, but maybe not the kind of people we would long-term want to associate with versus let's say tomorrow popular popular supported movement developed in Uzbekistan. That was clearly anti-western and hated our guts. What do we do about (00:37:45) that? Yeah. Well, I mean in the end, I think that we have to live with such governments assuming that they're not harboring or directly supporting terrorism. Look, I mean even in Afghanistan to go to Rich's point. I mean if you think about the kind of Coalition that you want, you're going to want one that's government that's you that is broadly representative of the various ethnic groups in the country. You're going to want one that is not involved in narco-trafficking. You're going to want one that At least lives up to a minimum of Human Rights standards and you're certainly going to want one that has absolutely nothing to do with, you know, terrorist groups and organizations beyond that. I'm not sure we're the ones that get to dictate if you see what I'm saying, and and you know, it could be that it could be that you you know, you'll have all kinds of people that that can operate within that framework. So I mean, I think that's my answer to your question just using Afghanistan as one example of how we might look at the World At Large. The other thing I would say is and again look Gary. This is just this is my, you know, almost next to education. And this is you know, my passion is become human rights. I gosh, I mean I've met with some of the greatest people in the world that I just the just I'm so inspired by them. I don't know where they get really going to know where they get the courage from to challenge repressive governments, and I think I think we're far better off when when human rights is always part of our This is is part and parcel of our foreign policy is part and parcel of what we're about as a nation tough to find a (00:39:32) balance though, isn't it? Senator between that concern between human rights and not stick (00:39:36) shadows. And of course it is. No, that's right. Well, I mean, I think Depends upon what you mean by sticking your nose in other people's business. I mean, I don't think we can you know, I don't think we can become a colonial power anywhere and I don't think we can tell people I mean we can't micromanage governments were people but I think that we can make it we can we can and should be speak out when governments systematically torture their citizens. We should be clear about our disapproval. I mean, that's to me that's that's sort of the role of the United States we can and should do that and some would say we're sticking there that were sticking her nose into their business. We hear that all the time we got that from the Chinese government we can hear from the government of former Burma week here at all over but I still think we should be speaking out and supporting human rights (00:40:31) Mike your question for Senator wall Stone. Yeah. Thanks for taking my call center. My question is where do you stand or what would you like to see with regards to tightening up? Borders better security and getting a handle on this immigration problem that we seem to have. Thank you. (00:40:50) Yeah. Well, I think a couple of different things Mike. I think that for sure. I mean one of the reasons that I have supported some of the their number of reasons but one of them and reasons that I've supported some of the counterterrorism legislation is because of the emphasis on the northern border the Canadian border and and dramatically increasing border control and having stricter standards and I think we have to do that. There's some things Mike. I wish we didn't have to do. But I think we have to post-september 11th. I just believe that for our own physical security and it's a matter of where you draw the line. So and I think that I think you're going to see that's one piece of it, but I want to go further than that because I think that probably the most important thing we can do which also has to do with our our our physical security is going to be to provide both the support as I said earlier for the public health infrastructure at the community level and for our law enforcement and fire departments who are the First Responders as well. I think we're going to have to do a much better job. I mean when it comes to intelligence or counterintelligence work, I mean, I think that the I mean, you know, you know when you now hear about a lot of your people in intelligence not being fluent in Arabic and having problems reading the language you say my God, we've got to get people that are highly skilled. We're going to have to have better Intelligence on the ground in the near east and south Asia. There's a lot we're going to have to do on the prevention side as well. And I and and by the way, I think all of this is going to require a significant amount of money and we're going to have to spend it now Gary. Can I make one quick point because it's kind of transition to the sea. I think we're really faced with its never seen anything like this in my adult lifetime. I think we're faced with three challenges or maybe once a crises all at the same time. There is the Afghanistan in the near east and south Asia and the Very uncertain Journey were taking and where does this take us and and we've had some discussion about that and I think it's real. I mean that's before us there is a second question because ultimately we want this to me end up better world. Then the second question is the physical security which my cast about and then the third is the economic security and I will just tell you that what we had 400,000 over 400,000 more people unemployed this month. We row, but eight million that doesn't include people that are discouraged workers people who were underemployed people who are working poor. We we have a lot to do now and I will tell you a lot of this investment in both Public Safety and Public Health at the local level is is the right thing to do in terms of making sure that we can do everything that we know. How to do to protect people in Minnesota and around the country but also it's important for the economy and jobs the one place where I'm that if you will taxes my patriotism a little bit is that I'm you know, we've come together around September 11th in the the horror that we feel and and and and the challenge of that we've come together around physical security on the economy. I mean what we're getting from the president. The White House is just in from Republicans. Here's a place where I do draw the line because they want to put so much of the emphasis on tax cuts for the top one percent on the Senate side. I think over 50% of the benefits go to the top 1% billion dollar breaks for some large multinational corporations and without really reforming unemployment insurance and they dramatically expanding the benefits and getting help to people that are out of work without making sure that people can afford health care coverage when they're out of For themselves and their loved ones without a commitment to job training without a focus on other jobs programs like fordable housing or rebuilding some of our crumbling schools that create jobs. I mean, this is I'll tell you something. This is where I think you're going to see the real debate take place and it and it should and I we've got a real challenge right now in terms of how we're going to respond to this economic crisis in the country. (00:45:32) Well, we are running out of time here and I wanted to get at least one call more caller (00:45:36) on. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be no, but actually Mike's Point that is part of some people here don't want to spend the money. You know, Mike was talking about. What are we going to do in the borders? What are we going to do here would think of it is it's not going to be done without just going to have to be an expenditure of resources (00:45:51) Juliet for know is on the line. She's with a Doctors Without Borders organizations. She's been on her middle great organization or fact and has very important as a question for you Juliet. Yeah. Hello Gary and the Heller would send out their wealth doing I'm calling because I've been now the head of the mission in Afghanistan for over 10 years during the Soviet occupation and followed very closely the recent events and I do believe that part of the policy of the Americans in that region was led by the economic interest. I don't know I kicked in the show later, but I was wondering if you've touched issue of the huge gas reserves in Turkmenistan and how much for years now it's been kind of a race between the American oil companies to get the pipeline through Afghanistan instead of through Iran and that it had in great part shaped the support that us was giving to the Taliban regime until two years ago and how much this is still a hot topic for the us policymakers as well. Okay. (00:47:00) Well Juliet what I had actually talked about before and I don't repeat it. I know we're running out of time, but but it's sort of near and dear to your heart and certainly Doctors Without Borders. I've been working real closely with and have had Doctors Without Borders. Is it Nicholas? Is he the chair the director now? Am I right was first name? Anyway, I've had one hearing. I'm going back to another one and I'm trying to bring in people that are on the ground there right now and humanitarian relief and I spent a lot of time saying that we're not we are not getting the help to people that they need right now not on present course and and we're going to have a humanitarian catastrophe and we talked about some of that earlier on the whole question of oil. I don't the answer is I don't I haven't heard being I guess one of the policymakers I have not heard that as it raises an issue and I don't really believe that that our policy in Afghanistan our response right now to September 11 has much to do with it. I really don't (00:47:58) shared sacrifice Senator. Basically what everybody has been asked to do is go Popping should we be asked to do something more than that? (00:48:09) Yes, I think I think so. I mean, I think there is look I mean, you know Marilyn Carlson Carlson and others have you know, who would really have talked about the way in which the tourism industry has been hit in the travel industry. They're not they're not wrong. I mean in terms of you know, this is it's important to have consumer demand and that that is part of it but I think as I might have said earlier there are my I think I said it at the Capitol at the Gathering we had just maybe the first weekend after September 11th. I think we do need to each other as never before I think. There are set there is a sense in which you know, it's important for people to help one another. I think we're seeing a lot of that right now and frankly, I think probably the the greatest sacrifice is going to be number one people in Minnesota and people in the country understanding that there are things that we're going to have to do and it's going to require some resources and we're going to have to be willing to support it for the good of all number two. I think when it comes to people who are flat on their backs and difficult economic circumstances, no fault of their own. I think we are only strong in the world when we're strong at home. And I think we have to continue to focus on the domestic needs number three. We're going to all have to do our very best in terms of how we talk to our children that much less our neighbors on physical security to help one another to do what we can to protect one another to try to Continue to live our lives to support one another. I think that's going to be extremely important. And then finally, I don't know yet. What kind of sacrifice is going to be called for in Afghanistan? And that is I think a question that is very much before us right (00:50:04) now Senator. Thanks for joining us. Oh, uh before we run. Are you still working out of Daniel Webster's Wine Cellar, or if you got a more permanent (00:50:11) location, and you know, I figured you'd be getting here to DC when you heard about that wine cellar Gary. I (00:50:18) am I'm sure you'd like to get back in your office, but if you can't be there, that's not a bad second (00:50:22) choice, not a bad second choice. (00:50:25) Thanks Hunter appreciated by Minnesota. Senator Paul wellstone joining us from Washington from the US Senate in Washington Center. Well Stone's office, of course was in the same building where Senator daschle so offices and they had to shut down the building because of the anthrax threatened. He is currently working out of the capital Daniel Webster's official Wine Cellar where told five minutes now before 12 o'clock.