(00:00:03) And good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us new documentary portrait of Eugene McCarthy debuts at the Minnesota History Center in st. Paul tomorrow evening the film which was written and directed by Mike Hazard for the nonprofit Center for International Education is titled. I'm sorry. I was right it tells the story of one of Minnesota's most remarkable politicians former Minnesota. Senator. Who's 1968 Eddie War campaign for president literally changed American history program tomorrow night, which will include a lecture by Senator McCarthy begins at seven o'clock. It's free and open to the public and the film will also be screened Friday night at Karen's Irish pub in Minneapolis that starts at 7:30. So tomorrow night or Friday night if you want to see the film but no need to wait until then if you want to talk with Senator McCarthy Eugene McCarthy is back in Minnesota from his home in Virginia, and he By our Studios today. So if you have a question or comment for Senator McCarthy, give us a call here. Our Twin City area number is 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free. And that number is 1-800-222-8477 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Senator McCarthy, welcome back to mid-day. Glad you could come by very well a belated. Happy birthday to you 85 you turned 85 on March 29th, big Health scare a couple of years ago, but you appear to be in good health now (00:01:39) pretty well recovered. Yes. (00:01:41) Are you happy with how the movie turned off? (00:01:46) I haven't looked at it. I don't like to look at myself on television is sort of like Revival meeting or something. Do you play? I don't know I said, yeah, I think it's going to be good. (00:01:57) Uh-huh. Did you have fun in the process of how because it's been in the making for a (00:02:03) while? I don't know. I have a strange attitude towards reproductions of my own self. So it was all right to give you some good times (00:02:14) the Lindbergh lecture you're delivering that tomorrow night and I guess the the fish'll title is informing the public mind the special responsibility of the Senate we get a sneak preview. What are you gonna tell the folks? (00:02:27) Well, I don't know quite what's expected of the Lindbergh series because it didn't work with spend a short time in Minnesota and his father was in politics, but it's just it's kind of in his honor. I think not the substance is something different and and what I intend to do is to talk about The role of the Senate would particularly one aspect of it, which is that a representing your state and what it what it was like what it was meant to what it should have been meant to to represent Minnesota. What you what you brought with you to the Senate from the state not just about how did you vote on issues but was there a character in your service which you can say reflected Minnesota? (00:03:19) What in your mind? What a what a senator bring that would reflect (00:03:24) Minnesota. Well, I think they were there are three kind of Beyond political issues in the 22 years. I was in Congress who 12 years or 10 years from st. Paul and 12 years representing. The state one was the crazy anti-communism of the 50s, which never should have Panic anyone from Minnesota because we dealt with radical movements here, and I remember I was here tomorrow night to go. To the state fair with my daughter when I was in the house. They had two booths for different kinds of Communists and at the Minnesota State Fair and she was about eight or nine. I think I've ever the one of the mitered was the trotskyites are the stone has had a globe with a which is about half of it was red. And she says that a paid ad daddy remember the old Sherwin Williams had an advance and we cover the we cover the Earth. And so I figured Minnesota was not going to panic on on the radicalism of any politics and I said when I first got into well, you tell the Communists who they didn't bring the Communist Manifesto. They brought Robert's Rules of Order with sort of it was procedure by that time and II was where the way and I wore things. We had a pretty strong tradition of be hesitant about supporting Wars and I thought I was representing my state and my State's position. and the third is the thing that goes on down about campaign reform, which is really an attack on the First Amendment and Minnesota has a good record of keeping the First Amendment clean third parties and primaries and The whole disposition. So theoretically I think of Senator should take something from his state in the service of the country seems like being an ambassador. (00:05:22) How do you how do you recommend though that Senators for that matter members of the House strike that balance between taking a leadership position and and on the other hand truly representing their constituents. Sometimes they're (00:05:38) not well as perennial problem Edmund Burke to addressed it and he was defeated because he told him how they should do it, but it was never really a serious problem in Minnesota. That was a good thing about representing st. Paul you you could dedicate yourself to broader issues because the Legislative record, especially the Senate pretty much took care of itself in the house. He had to be more concerned and we had some critical legislative programs in these 22 years. I was in Congress. We had Medicare and Medicaid we had whole civil rights thing probably two decades of the most important Congressional work accepting probably the early period of the country and it was it was interesting work and made a difference of civil rights and Medicare and Medicaid and unemployment compensation whole program was really dealt with in those 20 years. (00:06:41) What do you see as the big issue facing the Congress (00:06:45) today? I don't think they have a compelling issue Gary that when that happens you get these side issues Drive the big issues out of sort of Drive drive it out. You get things like campaign reform for example. And term limitations all procedural things which are are relatively unimportant in many cases subversive of a free society. And that's where we are. John Adams warned about having politics cannot under a constitution like ours controlled by two parties. He predicted it to go just about the way it's gone. You don't know one from the other and they begin fighting about you get into impeachments. I think we've got a tradition of impeachment now and and vetoes And holding out holding up on appointments and holding legislation and sort of running it like a state legislature. (00:07:45) You think we'll ever get past the Vietnam War. I mean here it is back in the headlines again former Senator Hillary expressing remorse for what happened in the village in Vietnam in 1969. And the whole debate is started again. (00:07:59) Well, I figured we'll keep coming as long as there are people who want to kind of clear themselves. The McNamara was the first break and they'll carry as surface. And it's no surprise that things like carries happen. If you were the kind of war that was being fought their groceries example, no one held responsible for it was the meal I Massacre which was first presented a significant military Victory and larger 1968 New York Times or the post scary stories about how a hundred and twenty-eight Vietcong were surrounded and held in a pincer movement while they were killed by helicopter fire when in fact, it was an Eli Massacre that occurred on that day and the report he was altogether doctor. and It's the same sort of thing that the reported on Carrie. There was an issue ordered saying this meal I area in the free-fire zone. Kerry said the area in which this event his happened was a free-fire zone or somebody said it and he lied is it as a free-fire Zone but and don't generate any prisoners. So it was a negative kind of command to kill anybody that moved which is what they did and Carrie did the same thing but to society that you can excuse military from any kind of moral judgments by saying it's a free fire zone. You can shoot the cow when you can shoot the people is pretty liberal standard for military Justice and Military conduct. (00:09:46) Want to get some listeners involved here, but one last question for you before we get to our callers looking back the film. We were referring to the new one. That's out. I'm sorry. I was right A lot of it is focused on your opposition to the war. (00:10:05) Did you (00:10:06) do you ever have any second thoughts about that about what about running that campaign? I'd it started it led to such a huge Rift between you and your old buddies back (00:10:17) here. And then first thoughts would you do no reason to have second thoughts because everything that's developed red approves. We were right and the I kind of hesitated about the title to the film that We charge they were misrepresenting what was happening over there. And there's no to say he responsibility and we were asking soldiers in the field to make political moral decisions, which they shouldn't have been asked to do. I think Gary when you have patriotism that's as strong as that of America. You have to be very careful not to exploit it in the war in Vietnam was an exploitation of patriotism asking asking soldiers to put aside their own moral judgments and just responded either direct commands were commands of these you only one option which is killing people and so I haven't had any second thoughts. I spoke to. Farty, I guess we the party of meeting honoring Gerald Ford, Michigan University or Ann Arbor. and he already ended the war and amnesty I said, you know for did what we said we do we won the campaign in 68. He did it for five years later and There were about four or five occasions when presidents particularly in their in their personnel could have said no Harry Truman could have said we're not going to support your colonial war in Vietnam. We did. Eisenhower could have said we're not going to send advisors at he did say we won't send bombers. You know, Kennedy could have said we're not going to send you into Green Beret and Johnson could have said I'm not going to send in 500,000 troops and Nixon could have said I'm not going to go into Cambodia. So there were about five or six occasions when a decision could have been made and I think even made without political danger that the country was ready to accept some kind of they felt a guilt they felt it was dishonesty. They and I think they sense that the justifications were not what they represented to be. Enemy life thing that report is required from Chicago Daily News Ed. Leahy said it's an interesting report. They say they killed a hundred and twenty-eight Viet Cong soldiers, but they only reported finding one rifle. He said usually these reports give you a report on how many guns were recovered. And rely no guns. So you didn't have to have a direct knowledge of the war if you just looked at the contradictions. Between what you knew was happening or what. They said. We're going to happen. It didn't happen and judge it almost as though you were reading history and say what kind of a war was (00:13:38) our guest. This hour is former Minnesota. Senator former presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy who is back in Minnesota this week tomorrow night a new film about Center McCarthy's life called. I'm sorry. I was right. It debuts at Minnesota History Center the film written and directed by Mike Hazard was done for the nonprofit Center for International Education the program starts at 7 o'clock tomorrow night Senator McCarthy will be delivering a lecture as part of that program. And then if you missed that Friday night, it'll be shown at Karen's Irish pub in Minneapolis as well. If you'd like to join our conversation, if you've got a question or comment for Senator McCarthy number to call six five one two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight to go to our first caller Brian. Go ahead, please. Senator McCarthy, I know you were really good friends with Jim Powers who was a who I admired really greatly it was a great writer who lived here in Minnesota thought it st. John's but he in a sense despised politics. He didn't vote and as you know, he went to jail because he was a pacifist and refused to fight in World War Two and I'm just wondering if you could tell more about your friendship with him and if you learned anything from him or what was it? Like (00:14:55) well I met him when he was here as a CEO it was assigned a Sandstone, but he was not paroled exactly where he's working at st. Joseph's Hospital has an orderly when I met him and I kept in touch with you throughout the rest of his career when he left Minnesota went to Ireland and came back to St. John's again. and Jim was well in Ireland it was having dinner with him in a Interested in someone recognized me and they came over and I said, this is Jay of powers. That was the end of his interest in me. He just wanted to talk to him power. Semi can't take you out and probably get over these Irish recognize your words back home and only a handful of people who did he was he was a great writer and It was interesting to be with him. I invited him to the American Embassy when I was in Ireland and was typically a gym we had eaten too much and we were out on the lawn and the Ambassador said to Jim. Is there anything else you'd like? And Jim said the I really would like watermelon and the poor Ambassador was was flabbergasted because he couldn't find anybody with watermelon. We November. I think it was a typical gym, you know, you ask him a question and give you an honest answer but it wasn't always very social. (00:16:35) Let's go back to the phones Jim your question plays. Senator McCarthy, did you vote for the Tonkin Gulf (00:16:46) resolution? Everybody voted for the talking Gulf resolution. I was in 1963 and there was nobody well two people didn't were they wearing Morrison in Earnest Greening? Do you have any regrets now on about not? Well, no, I don't have any regrets because what we voted for was something altogether different from what they used it for the argument. Was that the 63 we did we didn't have anybody in there accepting the 17,000 that this would intimidate the North Vietnamese. We probably shouldn't have accepted that fulbright's Committee reported to build asked us to vote for it. It was one of those psychological warfare things that are supposedly it was a senate voted to supported in the house. The Vietnamese would be intimidated. We were not in a position to say no because they were in a position to say Yes, and the argument get made was do it just to discourage the Vietnamese and let them know that we don't like what they're doing. I didn't know the test. I voted in 1967. We had a second vote on. To take up the by that time they were giving a different interpretation to the Tonkin Gulf resolution. And we found that they really hadn't been an incident. There was grave doubt at their other was an incident and five of us voted in 67 when we really had your commitment of to 300,000 people are to raise the question debate it and it was defeated whatever ninety four to five or ninety were only five votes against bringing it up for debate Greening and more sand and and Steve Young. and Fulbright and I said only five and sixty seven when he was a real commitment words in 63. It was was not taken seriously. (00:18:50) Did we in your mind did the United States get involved heavily in Vietnam for Good Intentions stop communism protect the southeast Wales people or did we have some all bad (00:19:02) motive? Well, we were started in to support French colonialism and that involved interested oil and 10. In commercial interest in French French actress was in controlling that as as the war progressed. We committed more and more people. We give more gain more and more comprehensive purposes as justifying or being in and went from supporting a Civil War and went to Invasion from the north then it went to Controlling the Chinese Communists and it went to the safety of the entire free world. So he said we made a deeper commitment why we found another justification until finally it was rust was saying the safety of the Free World is at stake. And that was sheer nonsense (00:19:59) Jackie your next go ahead place. Oh, thank you. I'm so glad that I got on this morning because you have just validated my concerns. Sometimes those of us who are involved with concerns of peace and Justice in the world Think We're Alone and when about a week ago, I got a flyer from the College of Saint Catherine's and their women of substance lecture Series be one of Marion Jones and then another author and it was Marilyn Albright. And at first I thought it just kind of hit me between the eyes. I thought well, maybe I'm wrong and then I talked a lot of my friends who are st. Joseph nuns and they felt that she was not an appropriate person to come to address our future women leaders of the world, especially with her statement about the Iraqi sanctions where Did allude to the fact that lots of children was worth it and then compose autobiography. She also stated that if you have a military setup, you really should use it or you lose it and I'm not against freedom of speech but I just feel that to put her up as a woman of substance and to form the future women leaders of you know, the Next Generation and also I had heard and it's not validated for sure yet, but they seem Thomas College also is thinking of her having coming in October September and maybe I'm overreacting and I know we've got a good chance for a dialogue but somehow I don't think it's appropriate to a validate what she stands for he having her address our future (00:21:16) leaders. Gary what was your blood boil that down as (00:21:23) well? What's your assessment of Madeleine (00:21:24) Albright? Well, I don't know. She was experienced in politics. I think I'd rather have her than Colin Powell but was very difficult being in the cabinet under Bill Clinton and I think some of the things she did reflect that (00:21:49) difficulty by so why was it Li was a difficult to serve under Clinton. (00:21:54) Well, he had no foreign policy experience in the first place. I think when he was running in 92, he said his foreign policy experience was summer internship with the Foreign Relations Committee and two days and you're in Europe or to two years scattered around when he was at Oxford and you can't really develop a foreign policies. Same problem bush has and Its Reflection. I think the danger you have if you elect a governor to the presidency do they think they can handle the Army the way they handled the National Guard? And the can't do it. And so Madeline was in a very difficult position dealing with the president who had no experience in foreign policy. (00:22:43) George W. Bush had quite a challenge in terms of the in the foreign policy arena with this China plane incident. You think he handled that. Well, (00:22:54) well, I thought you might send it send the pandas back. Well, that was a minor issue of mean a lot was made of it, but it wasn't going to develop into a great critical confrontation of problem of Taiwan is much more serious and and our failure to support the United Nations as we should on civil rights and some of these issues which are you know, it was the UN supposedly at the UN you're better than you are in the state department. So when you get into using this the UN as an instrument in foreign policy, you've already compromised it. end Isaac I go back to Harry Truman his first appointments to the United Nations in which she took a Republican senator. He resigned and was appointed to the UN and progressively since that time. They've got down to appointing old television commentators newspaper men and Foreign Service officers. Whereas the original conception was a man who could stand against an Administration saying this is the United Nations Charter and we've committed ourselves to it and it's not an appointment which you have put someone who conduct your own foreign policy without concession to the UN Charter. (00:24:35) We're talking this hour with former Minnesota. Senator former presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call here, six five. One two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at 1-800-321-8633 or 1-800-222-8477 to couple of minutes. (00:25:00) Hello. I'm Bill cling president of MPR for 35 years MPR in the people of Minnesota have been Partners in building a better life for the people of this state most of the costs of building MPR have been covered by contributions from you and yet in certain areas, we've used funds from the state of Minnesota to expand service particularly in rural areas of the state this year MPR sought funds to rebuild its Tower in Bemidji to preserve mpr's 33,000 our program archive as well as to strengthen the infrastructure of our Network we did well the governor reversed an earlier stand and supports him PR. Minnesota Senate has approved the request. However the house while approving funding for independent stations in college stations voted 65 to 67 to eliminate mpr's funding. We've always thought it important for you to know what effect legislative decisions will have on MPR. I urge you to consider letting your representative know your opinion on their vote visit our website at mptv.org for more (00:25:59) information time. Now for some news headlines, here's Redick running camera. Good morning Gary. The US Supreme Court has ruled that a federal law against marijuana makes no exceptions for medical use of the drug and a setback to seriously ill people who say they use marijuana to ease their pain. The justices say the law applies to everyone lawyers for Terry Nichols a their clients request for a new trial has been put in a more favorable light. They're asking the US Supreme Court to Grant the convicted Oklahoma City Bombing conspirator to a new trial in light of the FBI's failure to release documents in the case. President Bush is promising police and prosecutors. Written 50 million dollars for a two-year program to combat drug violence gun violence speaking in Philadelphia Bush unveiled his project safe neighborhoods program, which focuses on enforcing current laws rather than enacting new new laws on gun possession, but he says he plans to hire 113 new assistant us attorneys and 600 new state and local prosecutors to handle gun cases the plan also provides 44 million dollars to improve criminal record keeping so convicts cannot buy guns legally bush has said he's an advocate of enforcing laws involving gum crimes already on the books. He says it would be a priority to keep juveniles from obtaining guns in Regional news, the Minnesota Nurses Association and 13 metro area hospitals are scheduled to wrap up nearly three months of contract talks tonight. The key issues are salary and health insurance, but m&a officials say, they're not certain that an acceptable agreement will be reached all of this comes before a membership vote scheduled for Thursday. If more than two-thirds of the voters reject the Contract a strike authorization would automatically kick in the forecast for Minnesota calls for sunshine and warm temperatures Statewide. There's a possibility of some scattered thunderstorms in the north and a chance of showers and thunderstorms in eastern Minnesota highs today from 75 in the north to near 90 in the southwest at the summer in Rochester skies are clear temperature 69. It's clear in Moorhead and 71 Sioux Falls reports clear skies and 81 degrees. It's cloudy in Duluth and 54 and in the Twin Cities some clouds with a temperature of 64 Gary. That's a look at the latest news. All right. Thanks Greta. It's about 26 minutes before 12:00. Midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio. And our guest this hour is former Minnesota. Senator former presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy who is in town this week for several screenings of a new movie about his life. The movie is called I'm sorry I was right is done by Mike Hazard and put together for the nonprofit Center for International Education. It will be debuted at tomorrow night. The History Center and say Paul seven o'clock and that is free and open Senator McCarthy will also be delivering a lecture tomorrow night and there are two other screenings now Thursday night at the John Haase Hassler theater in plain view and also Friday night at Karen's Irish pub in Minneapolis has several opportunities to see the film. I'm sorry. I was right also, we should note that if you'd like more information about that film starting tomorrow, just check our website Minnesota Public Radio dot org and you can log on and there's a link there to the to the folks who made the movie and you can find out a lot more about the film. Meanwhile if you have a question for Senator McCarthy 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Senator. We were talking off the air mentioned the website here. You're not a big fan of the (00:29:27) internet. Well, I can't keep up with it. One of my daughter's is it In Eurasia now and she never wrote letters, but she's on the internet all the time now just talking to her sisters or to whoever she gets but you could do it doesn't function. I guess I just When my computer kind of died on me for five years ago. I'd ever replace it took up too much space on my desk (00:29:59) Kevin. Go ahead, please. Thanks for taking my call that the question I have is it seems that there are maybe statement here. It seems our maybe some parallels between Senator McCarthy has experience in government may be taking non-mainstream issues, and at least taking the site of that's not mainstream's well between that and Senator wellstone today. What advice is he's is Center will sound seeking some advice about how to address may be non popular non-mainstream issues how best to prevent himself from becoming marginalized either he or and or his supporters. Listen to the response offline. Thanks. (00:30:42) Well, I started with federal election reform which I think is an attack on the first amendment that it's not just Senator wellstone would practically the whole at least two-thirds of the Congress seem to think they have to be for it, but they don't know what to do with it Senator Buckley and I took it to the Supreme Court in 75 and 76 without success. Well, we had partial success. I've written a little as they say they're about five promises and if they're made by a candidate has not been in the Congress shouldn't be held against him one is campaign reform to is Term limitations you don't really know how long it's going to take you to accomplish your purpose in the in the Congress third is the reorganization of Congress because you don't know enough about it to reorganize it. I quote Sam Rayburn who was complaining about the 65 reorganization saying all the good it did was to raise salaries and provide a pension for members of Congress, which was not very ennobling and one or two other. We had a Minnesota congressman who would always say he wouldn't accept a salary increase. I think that was when we were getting $10,000 a year and that shouldn't be held against him because we said he didn't take it for two months after the past. But after two months he had additional expensive these sort of side issues become Central in the big issue. Are pushed off to the side and you get everybody running on on minutia and it's not is that the senator well, so these are things that affect in some cases the majority of Congress (00:32:43) senator, you've spoken frequently about your disdain really for these campaign Finance reform proposals. But you know, the people who Advocate it say that what we've got now is nothing more than legalized bribery. Well, (00:33:00) I don't know common cause started this movement about 1970 and They were looking at congresses that I've been a member of and there was no real corruption. These are the they didn't point out any corruption. I just said money corrupts and contributions were pretty minimal then and they the Congress that supposedly were the basis for their moving on corruption and past the Marshall Plan United Nations Medicare and Medicaid civil rights and minimum wage and half a dozen other issues which were fundamental issues and And they didn't make no decision. They just said you're corrupt Congress is corrupt in their corrupted by money. I've looked at what I think is a real corruption and presidents, especially a presidential candidates. Is not money. It's power Richard. Nixon didn't want money. He wanted power and Lyndon Johnson didn't want Power unless it was make a rep make a reputation for him. So the classical The Temptations are much more serious than the temptation of to be azra by large contributions. The record doesn't show it and they just harp on is there's not enough without of and You never can say there's no corruption. You know, you can always hear history sound its kind of cathica stuff. You hear the scratching sound say there's corruption out there and I think common cause has done as much harm to American politics and legislative history as any force in the country. (00:34:59) You think people who aren't rich or aren't beholden to wealthy special interests still have an opportunity to advance and (00:35:07) well, yes, and you just if it affects freedom of speech that kind of drops to the curtain on you you got to take a chance on and the record isn't even good to Big contributors for the most part. I've been supporting lost causes the American Revolution was in fought with matching funds. I didn't say to George. We got a little action going here. You want to match the money and make a contribution abolition movement was financed by large contribution to my campaign 68. It wasn't a whole lot of money, but they were big big contributions by standards of common cause we could have done it if he had federal election law in effect in 1968, but the record just doesn't sustain what common cause (00:35:56) charges Burt your question for Senator McCarthy pleasure. Thanks for taking the question Senator. We need your Counsel on the US policy which you would recommend to help get the palestinian-israeli conflict which seems to go on forever to to bring it to a Justin effective conclusion. And and it appears that are the US policy is sort of locked into Israeli rejection of any un role of any significance. And and what would you recommend as a series of as a policy position for our government and for our people to (00:36:48) support? Well, I we committed ourselves pretty strong to the United Nations Charter and we ought to lean over backwards to provide a good example to other nations instead. Using it when we want to and do you rejecting it and we don't want it if it's fundamentally flawed in its construction. We ought to change that but to say we will operate with the UN Charter as it is and we will use it when we wanted and we not use it when we don't want it is to frustrate the whole purpose of the United Nations organization and I indicated earlier has been a progressive rejection of the idea that the UN is a serious body first in the Ambassadors who are applied. I thought I'd be Stevenson made a mistake. He was Ambassador Under the Kennedy administration and they made him a member of the cabinet. He should have said no un Ambassador is not a Cabinet member. We have a double responsibility one to the our own government, but also wanted to our commitment to the UN Charter and once you become a Cabinet member you become really limited to being agent of the president and the kind the kind of ambassadors. We've been appointing the early ones were people who had some standing. Warren Austin and Henry Cabot Lodge and add the Stevenson but progressively after that is practically practically the same as pointing postmasters just political rewards and Awards in the whole effective. It has been a week in the impact of the UN on our the United States at the UN on International policies (00:38:34) energy policy. Lord knows we hear a lot about that these days President Bush will be coming to Minnesota on Thursday to outline his energy program. Is he in danger of getting into the same Quagmire as President Carter (00:38:49) did Well, I don't know what position he'll take you he's sort of I wouldn't trust it Texas Oil Man to deal with energy conservation. They've never been great conservationist. And I think that is an important factor in energy policy is conservation in this country. (00:39:13) You think people are American people are willing though and ready for a serious conservation program that would involve giving up stuff that they like they're in, (00:39:23) California. Why she would care about California. I someone said that if this is Texas and California were independent nations the California to be lining up on the border to open up the Pipelines. (00:39:42) Jenny your questions are Rudy. I'm sorry Brody your question for Senator McCarthy. Yes during the second world war. We lost relatives and we accepted this as a fact of War. What is your opinion of this Kurt a my policy that the government (00:40:01) has (00:40:02) a looking for all the (00:40:05) skeletons were supposedly (00:40:07) looking at looking for a missing in action an action (00:40:12) Soldiers. The surprise is the kind of war that was fought that there weren't more missing in action people in the were they made a great effort during that war to recover people who were shot or wounded or lost and I think the missing in action thing goes on but I don't expect it to have much success. People were killed in the jungle. They were killed. My people who who made involved in some cases and but the effort made for missing in action in the Vietnam War itself was someone said about a third of our action was trying to recover people who were shot or wounded or or isolated in Vietnam (00:40:55) Center. What would be in your mind? I know it's tough to come up with a formula but in your mind, what would be a justification for committing troops to military action? (00:41:08) And in general, well, I think you can make a case for submitting troops of this in action. I'm gay you believe those far as a major war is concerned the principal at the methods you use our overweighted by what the consequences of their use as you can hardly have a moderate really modern war with nuclear weapons as a justifiable War. You have to rethink the whole concept of of war and and the ethics of warfare. (00:41:40) Is there anything short of actual Warfare that any policy that a nation can pursue where you could stand up and say you know what you're doing here country a this is wrong. We oppose it and we're going to stop you but without sending troops (00:41:56) and well your fresh learn their lesson in Vietnam and took their troops out and also in Algeria. They said it wasn't worth it and we came in and picked it up and said we'll fight it with the French won't have been some comments by Frenchman about what they did in Algeria, but when Vietnam was beginning to build up, I'd read some of the reports of the French and they practically had a mutiny of officers in the French army because they didn't want to do what they thought they'd have to do to win in Vietnam and in Algeria and to go When he ran for president said algeria's France, but when he was elected, he pulled out of Algeria. I think he said Frances algeria's France with France's not Algeria, and he said that a nation. If its foreign policy changes its character runs contrary to his old tradition you get out of it and I think that's the kind of guiding principle. We should follow (00:43:02) Gloria your comment, please. Oh, thank you for taking my call you that I just wanted to tell the karthi's that I followed his career. I'm so glad to know that he's here and that we love him and that we liked his style. We like what he thinks his thinking and his action. Let's just okay. Thank you could hear that Gary. Well, it was a fan call Senator McCarthy. I need (00:43:30) those (00:43:32) a woman on the line saying that she likes your style glad you're here and and simply wants to thank the good work today. (00:43:44) Have you been man (00:43:45) able to patch up most of your differences with the old DF ellars here in Minnesota many of whom were pretty upset with you. You going head-to-head? Well Hubert Humphrey (00:43:53) and not really a lot of them are dead, you know, so they wouldn't have a party rally now. They helps called me back as the only Survivor it was pretty tough time because they had such loyalty to Hubert it. I've never asked her yet Perhaps to speak to a general dfl party rally here. The couple of The Fringe groups have had me in but for 25 years. I didn't really I guess I would have liked to talk to you about a few things but It was kind of Showdown was like Civil War, you know, and it reached the kind of irrational level and some of them I think felt it if they could keep me out of politics her defeat me you would prove they were right on Vietnam, which was a strange reasoning but I think there was some of that to (00:44:52) noticed the other couple months ago. You gave a speech at the University of Virginia and suggested that you really hope that young people get involved again in politics as they did in your campaign. (00:45:03) Yeah. I think that's one of the consequences of the Vietnam war is that the younger generation were isolated insulated or isolated from the Democratic party in a lot of the went to things like the American Enterprise Institute and some pretty intelligent people. So the party has suffered is supported it traditionally had new voters. (00:45:28) You think that's that that public electoral politics public service is that the area that young people should focus on or is as the action shifted so much to the private sector and to volunteer activities and so (00:45:42) well. It shifted whole lot. I still get to commencement address of st. Thomas business school about three or four years ago and sold him to told him that they had to rethink their whole functioning of persons within the corporate structure. And the function of the corporation was in the general structure of the country and I think that's still necessary. I really think I we ought to be looking at a new party that the projection of John Adams our two-party systems reach a point of stagnation and kind of Parkinson's law and that we need a new opening for new ideas and and new (00:46:23) people. What kind of party do you in visual kind of Liberal Party? (00:46:29) Well, I don't know his liberal or not. It's not Ralph Nader. Mater is is a kind of the old style platform with the the two elements. I think in politics in a democracy. What is personalism in which the in sort of Jesse Mentor said you may not have the best government will be your own. So that the feeling of be isolated, but your choices are limited to the two parties and the participation is more and more limited. Freedom of speech is take it away. And the other element in a Democratic Society is distributism a feeling that you you have. So the labor movement now and many of them are concentrating on job security. Certainty in the ownership which comes in a different form in the corporate structure and what we had when the country was established but those two principles are violated in both parties of personalism and distributism and I think a third party that could someone bring himself around to adopting those as guiding principles and formula am in policy is what we ought to have. (00:47:52) Sorry, we're out of time, but I appreciate you coming by today. Okay, have a good visit. All right, former, Minnesota. Senator former presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy joining us today on our midday program again tomorrow night seven o'clock at the Minnesota History Center new film portraying profiling the Senators life will be debuted at the History Center. It's called I'm sorry. I was right seven o'clock at the History Center and it's free and open to the public. Also check out our website starting tomorrow for more information about that film from the Of Congress. I don't know. I think we might be doing some serious cleaning in here. I would have been happy in the broom closet. It's just exciting to be to Hall of Famers. I just played every game like it was my last time you saw me I smiled I sign autographs for the kids. I shook their hands. (00:48:42) We consider it all on all things considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio and 0 wfm 91.1 in the Twin Cities. (00:48:56) five minutes now before 12 time for the Riders Almanac