(00:00:06) Good morning, and welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. Glad you could join us. Well, as you heard on the news the Democratic National Convention is getting underway in Los Angeles. Today's events are being billed as a passing of the torch day with President Bill Clinton the featured speaker at this evening session. This could be one of his last speeches to a national audience after his address this evening. The president is scheduled to leave Los Angeles ass clearing the stage for vice president. Al Gore's formal nomination later this week. Now we're going to have live coverage of the president's speech and the rest of us evenings activities starting at 7 o'clock this evening here on Minnesota Public Radio. We should also note that if you can't listen this evening will be re broadcasting President Clinton speech at noon tomorrow here on midday. And of course you can catch up on all the election convention activities at our website, Minnesota Public Radio dot-org. All today on. Midday we have been joined from Los Angeles by Minnesota. Senator Paul wellstone who's out in La for the convention and we invite you to join our conversation as well. If you've got a question or comment for Senator wellstone on politics or some of the big issues facing the nation. Give us a call here at 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin City area. The number would be one eight hundred two, four two 28286512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Our Guest this our Minnesota senator Paul wellstone. Now before we get started with our conversation, we do have a couple of clips from Senator wellstone speech yesterday at the so-called Shadow convention that's being held in Los Angeles. The shadow convention was organized by a group of progressive organizations, which say they believe major issues are being ignored by both major parties, and they specifically are concerned with three issues campaign. Reform income inequality in the War on Drugs. Here's part of what Senator wellstone had to say to the group (00:02:05) yesterday. How can it be? Be with record economic performance record low levels of unemployment that Republicans and too many Democrats still tell us we can't afford to provide a good education for every child. We can't have health security for every citizen and that we should tolerate a set of social Arrangements that allow children to be the most poverty stricken group and organism people in the United States of America. If you want real welfare reform focus on a good education good health care in a good job. If you want to reduce poverty focus on a good education good health care in a good job. If you want to have a stable middle-class focus on a good education good health care and a good job. If you want a country we're here because we love our country to do well in an international economy focus on a good education good health care in a good job. And yes Jim if you want to reduce this violence, The truth of the matter is this we ought to shout this truth from The Mountaintop. We can build a million new prisons. We will fill them all up. We will never stop the cycle of violence unless we invest in the health and the skills and the intellect and the character of our children focus on a good education good health care and a good job. That's why we're here at the shadow of that gem (00:03:33) cutter wellstone also said that progressives need to organize for future elections, (00:03:38) you know for my own part. I think the difference is make a difference in this race. I'm going to support the vice president be out there. But you know what regardless of what position you take visit be the vice president Ralph Nader or others regardless of what position you take when this is over when this is over. I really do believe that we need to build a kind of an independent political force. I didn't say third party, but you know what we got. Up waiting for other people to recruit the candidates. We got to stop waiting for other people to put forth the new ideas Cornell some kind of vehicle. Whereby we put forward the ideas. We put forward the policies we communicate with people we capture the imagination of people we recruit people to run for office and we back them up with people who know how to manage campaigns and no field operations and can combine Community organizing with electoral politics. I'm tired of waiting. It's time for us to find our own voice to do our own organizing to push forward on reform to push forward on the economic justice issues and to make the United States of (00:04:52) America. Senator Paul wellstone speaking yesterday at the shadow convention in Los Angeles. Again, Senator wellstone on the line now from Los Angeles to talk politics. And if you've got a question for the senator gave us a call six, five one two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two four two. Way to a senator. Thanks for joining us this morning. Hey, Freddy fire got kind of tired (00:05:15) listening. Are you loaded? A lot of energy there? Are you going to be isn't it? Funny? How you can never recognize your voice? Like it's somebody play's a tape or something and I remember in our Wilmer office. I called once and Tom ma'am and Mary Ryan were out meet with people in think they were too far meeting and they had put my voice on saying, you know, thanks for calling center Wilson's office and and I called them up and I said, you know, that's a goodness. I mean that voice I mean, who is that? I mean, it sounds like somebody from these posts. They said that you (00:05:56) are you going to be speaking at the Democratic Convention, (00:06:02) you know, they're not there. They're not showcasing me. Why not not Showcase in me. (00:06:07) Are they trying to Are the people who are organizing the convention trying to keep it kind of in the middle of the road present a (00:06:16) well. I think I actually have to always have twinkle in your eye. I say that because have kiddingly I think that the emphasis is on people that are you know, California the Senators, California. Worf people that are running for office, I think they'll also going to highlight the role of women in the Democratic party. So, you know, I think it's that plus look it's true. I mean, I'm more critical of the party and you know, I'm not usually that scripted and so I don't I don't think probably that would be like a safe choice either but you know, look, I love the Democratic party in one way more than any other Gary. I mean I always say this not just because I'm a show I owe so much to people in Minnesota for giving me this chance to be a center and including a lot of Democrats the first endorse me and supported me in the primary into the general election people who don't agree with me on all issues and so vice versa just because you don't agree with someone on all issues doesn't mean you write them off and and I still very much believe in the potential of the party, but I do think that the whole question about reform and the money and politics in the way it saturates both conventions. Very troubling to me and even changed my viewpoint about that at all. And the shadow convention was it was a that was part of it Gary Hart LED off Russ Feingold. I was there with Russ spoke Cornel West is a good friend of mine African American Scholar does some great work spoke and you know, they had a number of young people from East LA kids that are struggling it reminds me of communities. I'm in Minnesota all the time. So all this focus on getting money out getting people back in focusing on making sure that there's opportunities in affordable housing and good education for children affordable childcare. All of these issues are so in important to me. I spoke on the picket line the other day with a well. It's actually an organizing Drive of Hotel restaurant workers out here the interesting thing. It's Loews Hotel in the the guy owns it mr. Tisch is a big contribute to the Democratic party. So there's a bit of a contradiction but you know, this reminded me of being out on the picket line with Hotel restaurant workers in Minnesota lot of new I mean an immigrant Population people who are people who you know work hard. They just want to be able to bargain collectively to earn a decent living so they can support the families to me. That's what the Democratic party should be about. (00:08:45) As you know, Senator Fair number of people apparently who would normally be expected to vote for the Democratic candidate say they're going to vote for Ralph Nader and in fact at your Shadow convention yesterday. He has you as we heard ya got a got a nice warm reception. Yeah. What do you say to those people? (00:09:03) Well, it's I was I mean a couple of different things. I mean, you know, first of all, I think I've said this to Democrats people some of the people in the party, you know, I up in the party. I said look, you know, I'll just tell you right now Ralph Nader or somebody that I have admired for years. We are since I come to the Senate we're close friends and when he says something on an issue that I think support I'm going to reinforce what he says and I'm not going to be attacking Ralph Nader because I agree with him on many of the questions that he raises but what I say to what I'm going to be saying to people in Minnesota and people around the country, I think is that the differences make a difference. I mean to me George W wants to repeal the 20th century. I mean, I really think that if you really look at what Republicans are talking about look I think abortion is a powerfully personal question people can have very different views in good faith, but I wouldn't want to now make it criminal again. Look at I look at what Bush would do with Supreme Court Justices. I I look at his record on I was just talking about Healthcare and children in Texas. It's a horrible record in terms of doing almost the opposite of what it Minnesota's doing not being wanted to cover children reluctant to have good medical assistance Outreach for low-income kids. Look at his what he's proposing on Medicare and Social Security, which I think is dangerous. I think it's a long approach. I think it takes away from two very important Universal coverage programs that have made our country significantly better. Not just for basis the senior citizens. Well, you know, what's not just the senior citizens. It's our parents our grandparents. Our community is record on Environmental Protection. Bush's record is horrendous. So to me what Al Gore better do the sooner the better is focus on the issues draw the line make it clear what the differences are and I think that's going to be a challenge. I think if he does that he'll win the election but and I think a lot of people that are thinking about supporting Ralph Nader in the end will support the vice president, but I'm not going to I'm not going to try to finesse this with you. I think he's got his work cut out for him. (00:11:23) Senator Paul wellstone has joined us from Los Angeles today where the Democratic National Convention is getting underway and lots of callers on the line with questions for Senator wellstone Bob. Go ahead please (00:11:34) our Predator Paul is a strong advocate of Grassroots democracy. Are you going to join Congressman Jesse Jackson jr. And calling for Ralph Nader to be included in the presidential debates, or are you going to support the arbitrary requirement of 15% standing in National polls in the debates which stifles Grassroots democracy? Well that that's a tough question to answer give the way it was framed. But II do think that the thresholds too high and I do think that NATO should be involved in debates. (00:12:06) What about some of the other old (00:12:10) agree with the premise of the question? I think it's good. Look, you know (00:12:14) some of the other third party (00:12:17) if you look at third party again, I just have to You know, I think people know where I stand and and and that's that's what I believe. I also think the third party efforts have historically in the country, especially the presidential level been important in terms of introducing New Perspectives into the dialogue and I think it's terribly important that those perspectives be introduced into the dialogue and I think that's that was the premise of the question. I agree. I agree with what was said. Hmm, (00:12:50) Gary your next go ahead, please. (00:12:51) Thank you. I too agree that there's a great deal at stake here in this upcoming election. I mean what we have if L gor shouldn't succeed is the prospect of a republican-controlled executive branch as well as Republican controlled legislature. That's right. And I have some friends who are seriously considering supporting Ralph Nader and I happen to agree with a lot of Realms positions. Yeah, you know here and there Well, but I say I respect him but look there's so much at stake here at the selection that I don't think would be such a wise thing to do to support Ralph because supporting Ralph might actually be like voting for George Bush Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean that's With the gear who called in or was yes? Okay, Gary, I feel like everybody's going to say well jeez Paul your become quite politician everyone. Who calls you say, I agree. I mean, I promise that they'll be where there's disagreement. There's honest disagreement. No, that's that's what you just said. You just pretty much express my viewpoint and I would also say and and I don't want to do it in a kind of there are there are some people that I very much believe in who we really are supporting Ralph, but I think adding to what you said Gary above and beyond Supreme Court Justices who they will be and what kind of decisions will make I think that for a lot of I spent a fair amount of time in a lot of low income communities of people are really struggling and and you know, I think frankly from that point of view of kind of what kind of commitments are going to be on the health care front or the education front or housing front Democrats aren't where they should be and I think you and I would probably agree Gary but my God, the differences between Democrats and Republicans to make a difference. I see that all the time in the Senate and I don't want to have such distance from these very concrete problems that people face that I want to say. Oh well doesn't matter who wins it matters a lot and I would not want to see George w-- Bush and Republicans. Take over the federal government. I think it would be I mean it I think I think they would turn the clock back big time and I think it I think it would be very harsh agenda regardless of all the language about compassionate conservatives when I What pushes really what he really was specific proposals and what he has done as Governor Texas. It's a pretty I think horrendous record. And by the way, I think taking people on their positions on issues in their record is absolutely what you should do in a good political debate in the good campaign. (00:15:34) You've been in Washington throughout the eight years at the Clinton Administration has been in office out how much credit or how much blame should Al Gore get for what the Clinton Administration has accomplished or not (00:15:50) accomplished. Well, that's it. You know. I have a hard time answering a question because I've not been in on the you know, sort of internal decision-making I'm told and I believe that the vice president has been in on many of the policy discussions in was rather influential participant. He certainly he certainly has a lot of ability and Policy discussion some people say is too much of a policy wonk. So I would say that on the policy front probably depending on your point of view deserves the credit or or the blame. I think he's been quite involved in the administration. I think overall they feel very proud of the record. I think it's been a good record in some ways. And in other ways. I think it's been very disappointing and mean to me very disappointing on human rights very disappointed in terms of really doing much more about poverty and Poverty of children in the country. Not at nearly as Bolden agendas. I think we could have but on the other hand look at the record deficits look at the bringing the deficits down now surpluses bringing interest rates down. Although now Greenspan has been raising them and an economy that at least in a macro sense is certainly doing well. I mean, I think there's a there's much that the vice president can talk about in a positive and and and take credit for although again. I've been disappointed at the Democratic party has on a lot of the fundamentally important economic Justice issues dealing with Mentioned the speech education and health care and jobs us. I think we should be much stronger. I think where he deserves doesn't deserve the blame is all the questions about the president's egregious personal Behavior. I think that's Bill Clinton. Not Al Gore (00:17:34) George w-- Bush in his acceptance speech about 10 days ago charge of the Clinton administration had essentially squandered the opportunity that the nation's Good Financial or Economic Times a provided sounds like you would agree with (00:17:49) mr. Well, you know, it's ironic. I wish you hadn't raised that question the way you did because I think you're I think you're right. I mean, I do except with different conclusions. I mean when I heard that I thought it was a very the delivery of it was pretty good and but more importantly the actual speech that was written for George w-- Bush was I thought very I thought it was very effective me. I thought it was a brilliant speech because I think they Trying to push certain buttons and I think they were pushing the right buttons and some of it had to do with integrity and honor and trust and some of it had to do with you know, where was the sense of purpose. We had a chance to do bold and good things. Why wasn't more done I would agree except that. Well, of course what they're saying is will take the security out of Social Security and will basically move toward privatizing this which I think is a very Reckless proposal and you know, we'll put Medicare and part on vouchers and and we'll have these tax cuts which will erode the revenue base so that we basically don't have any of the resources for investment in our children investment in education investment and long-term care Healthcare will just have tax cuts most of the benefits not all but most going to the top of the populations that strikes me as being that's that's George W Bush's definition of bold. I don't think that works for the vast majority of people in Minnesota but on the but but but the question that was raised about why not Why not a more of a purpose and more of a bold agenda are calling on people in the country to be even better and to do even better. That would be a quick question that I would raise but I certainly wouldn't be proposing with George w-- Bush is proposing (00:19:33) galen's on the line from Benson with the question for Senator wellstone. Go ahead Galen, (00:19:37) just mostly thank you to you for having Senator on and a plain simple sincere. Thank you for your service in the US Senate your Independence the word conscience comes to mind and you don't always know when people crack the whip that Paul will follow mostly follow his inner lights when the when there's a really a Shakedown Cruise and I just think it's been invaluable Paul to have you there. I'll whenever you talk like at your Shadow convention the other night I saw a clip of it. I thought of a famous phrase we used to here in the 1960s. I think it's still an up-to-date phrase even now do not think of things the way they are. Dream things that have never been and say why not then I thank you Paul. You've helped us dreams things that have never been in say why not and God bless you and your continued service to the nation that was much more to the deserve. But thank you very very much. (00:20:33) Are you going to run for re-election again to the Senate Senator? (00:20:36) I'm going to talk about myself today. Well, well not going to I'm not going to that's that's certainly not what I'm thinking about right now Kirk your question, please you may or may not believe me, but I'm really not I've decided that I just I almost always can go pretty well with Brooklyn's in the fingertips and Instinct and I just I just I love Public Service, which is still how I view politics, but I think I just it's so much can happen over the next couple of months and it's just important to wait and see Kirk your question, please. Hi. Hello, Senator good to talk to you good to hear you again. Here's a little disagreement for you. You're okay. Always agreeing you you ran down George W is record pretty well, right? I thought what do you say to a disgruntled Democrat like myself? Who's wondering why you guys had to have a shadow convention? Why aren't you guys going to be on the podium? Yeah. What are you going? You know, how can we vote? How can a Democrat from Minnesota vote for a man who's part of an Administration that pulled the plug on the new deal and that has you know turned around the Democratic Party from what I know that has basically gotten into bed with international business that has promised that it would do real welfare reform and has done nothing. They has presided over, you know, the widening of economic disparity between classes. Yeah, we can vote against George W and I'll do it in a heartbeat. But what are we going to get if we vote Democratic right? Well a couple different things but the shadow conventions by the way word both conventions. I mean they were and I spoke with both in Philadelphia to and it's sort of wasn't just like okay. This is for the people walked out of the democratic party. I think people that were the shadow convention were My guess is well. John Anderson was at 1 John was once a Republican and tunnel John speaking at this one. I saw him in Philadelphia and then he ran his members and independent In 1980. This was more a kind of Coalition of organizations. I don't know why you used to order someone to the labels liberal Progressive. It's a label that I don't shy away from but I think it was common cause was their public citizen was there. Are it a whole bunch of different people were there it was it was actually quite I thought I thought they were both very important Gatherings Kirk now if you think I'm a very good question, I'm not you know, that's why at the very end. I mean, I think that obviously we have probably some disagreement about whether the differences still make enough of a difference. I already said today that I think they do and that and I'm going to be supporting the vice president but I understand a good part of your critique and some of it is my own and that's why I also think that after this election is over I do. I think it is really important that some real effort be made to really figure out how we can do a better job of the progressive agenda of really putting together a vehicle where we can start it shouldn't be the Heritage Foundation or the American Enterprise Institute that's putting out all the reports and all the policy ideas or the center for the American experiment Minnesota, which does a good job of what it's doing but my point is it's going to be I think our challenge to begin to have the intellectual policy part to do there's some great Grassroots organizing some of it is around clean money clean election living wage campaigns a lot of good labor organizing the likes of which I haven't seen for years organizing the unorganized very important. Some of the student work anti-sweatshop workers is just very very important see it in Minnesota. See it really around the country and I I think it's going to be real important some of the coalition's of environmentalist and farm groups and citizen action groups and labor groups. I just think we have to put together some of our own organizing some of our own candidate recruitment to push this politics forward. That's to me the and to put the pressure on that's that and to really begin to organize more people so they can have more of a voice. I mean Larry Weisman Pam costain have done a great job just with some of those students high school students even that have been taken on Sweatshop conditions in other countries (00:25:09) Minnesota. Senator. Paul wellstone is our guest this our he joins us from Los Angeles where the Democratic National Convention is getting underway, and he's joined us today to talk mostly politics but issues as well. If you'd like to join our conversation again, let me give you the number. Why don't you wait for a few minutes though? All of our lines are busy right now, six five one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. The number would be one eight hundred two, four two 2828. We'll get to some more callers in a couple of minutes. I'm Lorna been And on Mondays All Things Considered tubing down the Otter Tail River used to be considered good family fun. But now some parents say they're concerned about how safe it (00:25:49) is. Well, it's a free-for-all. I mean anything goes mud wrestling their clothes are coming off people are getting drunk people are laying under kegs of beer and drinking beer. It's not for (00:25:59) kids that story on Mondays All Things Considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio, by the way, if you're feeling a little stressed we have we have the antidote for you. Loretta LaRoche is going to be on over the noon hour. She is a Stress Management Consultant, but be assured our noon hour will be jargon free Miss LaRoche operates on the premise that laughter is the best thing you can do to manage your stress and I think you'll find the our to be entertaining interesting and maybe even little informative that's coming up over. The noon are right now news headlines. Here's got a Cunningham Greta. Morning, Gary rescue ships are at the scene but officials say it's not looking good for the crew of a Russian nuclear submarine more than 100 Sailors are trapped on the sub, which is sitting on the ocean floor off Russia's northern coast, the submarine pledged to the floor of the sea yesterday. It was taking part in a major Naval exercise at the time Navy officials say it appears the sub collided with another object though. It's not clear. Just what it was Ford says most of the Firestone Tires recalled last week were produced at a single Illinois plant by strikebreakers. Most of the tires were put on Ford SUVs and light trucks. The automaker says the majority of those tires were built at a Decatur Illinois plant from 1994 to 1996 at that time. The workers were on strike in the plant was operating with replacement workers and managers Bridgestone. Firestone says labor dispute had nothing to do with the problems six and a half million tires have been recalled after being linked to hundreds of accidents and at least 46 deaths will be a special video tribute tonight of the Democratic National Convention to former. The Jimmy Carter president and mrs. Clinton will address the convention tonight. They're expected to give Democrat presidential hopeful Al Gore credit for being a partner in America's economic Prosperity more trouble for firefighters in the west and new Wildfire. Just west of Yellowstone National Park has exploded from 80 acres to 3,500 more than 80 major fires are burning in about a dozen states those places have black and about nine hundred twenty thousand acres in Regional news. Minnesota state auditor Judy Dutcher speaks at the Democratic National Convention tonight Her speech is scheduled for 5:33 p.m. Minnesota time, but she could take the podium earlier or later depending on what the event is running on schedule doctor is a former Republican. She split with a GOP in January saying the party had moved too far from the mainstream and was intolerant of those who differed from the party line on issues such as abortion and school vouchers the National Weather Service in Grand Forks has issued a severe thunderstorm warning for southern Mahnomen County in Northwestern, Minnesota that's in effect. 11:45 today checking conditions around the region Duluth reports Fair skies and 68 skies are fair and st. Cloud in 82 partly cloudy and Rochester and 78 and in the Twin Cities some Haze a temperature of 79 degrees Gary. That's a look at the latest news. Thanks Greta 25 minutes before noon mid day coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio and our guest this our Minnesota. Senator Paul wellstone who joins us from Los Angeles where the Democratic National Convention gets underway today. And of course the major event on the convention agenda the formal nomination of Vice President Al Gore's the party's Presidential nominee that comes up later this week. Will of course have live coverage all week long starting at 7 o'clock each evening here on Minnesota Public Radio or check out our website, Minnesota Public Radio dot-org center wellstone before we get back to questions from our listeners. I should ask you what impact if any do you suppose the decision to named Joseph Lieberman to the ticket will In terms of his religion, is that a is that a big deal as kind of a big religious breakthrough or have we essentially crossed that bridge with the Kennedy nomination back in (00:29:51) 1960? Well, you know, I actually just wrote a piece yesterday and I send it off the day is interesting. It took me 15 minutes to write it. So I don't know what that means. It's a good piece or not. But sometimes when it just comes to you, it's maybe better riding. I think two things about Joe's choice. I mean first of all, I think he his choice the vice presidential running mate with Al Gore helps the Vice President in one important way and not in another the important way actually is Joe spirituality. You know, I'm of course the son of a Jewish immigrant from Ukraine and Russia, so I'm very proud of this choice. Just give him my own personal life, but I think that this isn't really so much about being Jewish to the extent that Joe Lieberman applies or connects his spirituality with his conduct in office. I think that's very attractive to people because I've never seen people in Minnesota in the country more interested in more concerned that people in public life are honest that they can trust them that they can believe in him that that's really what this is about. So, I don't think that the Joe being an observant Jew will hurt at all. I think it will only help I believe that now the void however, which goes to some of the questions that have been raised, you know at the very beginning to show I don't know why I caught my attention. You said Gary something like, you know a discussion about politics, you know, the big issues that are facing the nation. Well, sometimes that's the problem people don't see a connection between politics and the big issues that are facing the nation or for that matter. The big issues that are facing them and their own families and their own communities, and I think there still is quite a voice. Here some of it has to do with some of the issues. I've been talking about which of these bread-and-butter economic issues just keep the concern that people have about earning a decent living and supporting their families or health security. What do you do is your parents are older or long-term care the whole issue of our schools and education affordable housing. This should be big headlines everywhere about the lack of affordable housing. I think that that these are I mean terribly important and I spent a large part of last week in the north side will boy Kevin beru, you know, h-11 murdered. I mean, there's so many critically important issues like that with and I think there's so much more that we should be able to do as a nation and I think some of what's going on in agriculture family Farmers that can survive no fault of their own. Where's the antitrust action who's going to take on big conglomerates is going to take on pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies. I think a lot of people still believe neither party. Is there for them on these issues? I think Democrats are better, but we're not nearly as strong as we should be. This is where the money Chase I think really hurts. And therefore I think that is still avoid that Joe Lieberman can't fill for Al Gore he has to feel from self. As a matter of fact Joe is not mean a populist, you know, Progressive politicians very decent person. I will tell you that. I mean I consider him a good friend I do but he can't fill that void nor should he because it's not as is overall viewpoint, but the vice president needs to if people are napping this election year and you don't get a good turnout then we don't do well in the right in this race. (00:33:28) Dale your your question, please (00:33:30) morning. I haven't been following the conversation from the beginning. So maybe I'm repeating myself, but I wanted to ask Senator about big money. The Republicans are in my Experience more connected with that than the Democrats are but you know lately especially during the two terms of this Administration. It seems like particularly with campaign Finance laws soft money and so on that that it's gotten worse and worse and and have Democrats have gotten more into it and it looked particularly with campaign Finance. It looked as though mr. McCain was going to Try to get something done. But you know at the Republican convention, it seems like he was rather gelded, you know, he's kind of been co-opted. Right and I wonder what you think, you know prospects are for getting the attention of the parties back to individual people as opposed to our corporate citizens. Well, I think what you said see that to me is I still think it's the core issue in its it's really troubling, you know, when you put it away you put a tail because I think just a lot of people believe, you know, if you pay you play and if you don't pay you don't play and and therefore people feel walked out and left out and they're not wrong mess and it's really a I think the George W bush Republicans are more Awash in the big money than Democrats, but frankly the Democrats are very much a wash into this as well. And I don't think it helps. Have all of these huge amounts of money pouring into these conventions, you know, you know supporting this party or that party you name it, but the question is what next two points one what John and Rusty talking about which initially the other two original co-sponsors were Fred Thompson Republican and and myself I think is is good. But if it gets down just to get rid of soft money, which everybody's talking about which is, you know, basically unregulated huge contributions. That would be a step forward. I'm not so arrogant to say it wouldn't be it's still Dale wouldn't necessarily apply directly to Congressional races. It still went it's still when create anywhere near close to a Level Playing Field and you'd still have the problem of of how two people afford to run in hand and obscene amount of money that goes into these races. And so I think that it's going to take a lot of external pressure. This is truly going to have to be a citizen I wished I could will it into existence today. I wish my words in our on NPR would in and of itself your words would create the citizen politics to win this but that's the only way this is going to happen is so much pressure on people that they have to vote for the reform and right now you still have a lot of people blocking it and we're going to have to put much more pressure on I think Gary can just say one thing. I feel I can be long with I think what people what happens this sounds just very brutal politically brutal, but I really believe this is case a lot of people say, okay. I'm going to vote against these campaign Finance reforms even the very modest mccain-feingold bill. It's very scaled down now and yeah, there will be some editorials in the Pioneer Press and Star Tribune and greater Minnesota papers that are going to criticize me or New York Times or post but you know or wherever people live but you know what ultimately I'll have so much more money than my Challenger that I'll put it all into these ads over the last three weeks before Action, I'll reinvent myself people won't even know how I voted and it's worth it. So what if I get an editorial that criticizes me, I'll still win because I'll have the money well, but if you've got people in Minnesota around the country saying this is a big issue to us. We want you to support reform and we going to hold you directly accountable and we mean it I think that's going to help a lot that we're not quite there yet though. (00:37:36) I was going to say do you think people actually care that much about this issue? (00:37:39) I do I do but I think it's also tends to be linked. This is why I was kind of thrilled with and I said to Scott harshberger used to be a Attorney General of the state of Massachusetts. Sheila knows them well because they did a lot of work together dealing with domestic violence and and I think what he's doing is the head of common causes very important because it used to be these good government groups would just talk about good government money good government and they never would relate it to issues, you know, you know, this would make a difference. If you want to have more of a prior and education versus tax cuts to go to very wealthy people or this would make more of a difference if you don't want the oil companies to be dominating or and you want more Environmental This would make a difference if you want to do better on health care and not have the insurance industry or the pharmaceutical industry dominate. You see what I'm saying? Or this would do beep make a difference in terms of farmers could maybe get a better price versus people being so dependent upon the conagra's of their Cargoes or the ibps of this world. If you make those kinds of connections, yes, I think people cared deeply I think people care desperately. I think people like myself, you know, this is a big deal. I never realized until I got to be, you know a little bit older but this immigrant background is I used to think people. It's such a big deal. I mean, you know, I my father's not alive, but I just love the country. I love Minnesota feel blessed to live here. But but what but what troubles me because of this patriotism if you will, let me my dad fled persecution is I think I think the whole issue of money, I believe that what's at stake here is a noble and bold and wonderful. Year experimented self-rule self-governance. That's what the Jeopardy we're losing that if you believe that each person should count no more than as one and no more than one if that's your standard for represented democracy. And by the way, that should be the operating standard. We have moved so dangerously far away from that. It's frightening. (00:39:33) Mark are question for Senator wellstone (00:39:35) closer to wellstone. I'd like to pose to you that there is only one political party in Minnesota and in the country that is truly interested in citizen democracy. And then as the Green Party hmm, we'd love to have you we really would well again, I mean I think you know, the the green party takes important positions on issues. I've made it Crystal Clear. I've been very public about it that you know, when when Ralph articulates positions on issues that I think are really important for the country important for Minnesota. I'll reinforce what he says and I do that but it's what I said earlier Mark. I really I owe a tremendous amount to DF ehlers and Democrats and much less Independence and other people in Minnesota have have given me a lot of support even when we don't agree on all issues and I'm committed to trying to make this party as good a parties it can be to serve people butbut. I'm not That third parties play an important role always have and will and the green party does. (00:40:40) Rob you're up next. Go ahead, please (00:40:42) it's good to talk to you sooner wellstone, they'd like you to possibly comment an issue that I don't think the Democrats or the Republicans are talking about and this is the so-called War on Drugs. Yeah. Are we putting too many drug people in prison keeping them there for too long the time and the on a military aide going to Colombia to really get involved in a rebel war and possibly should marijuana be legalized. No, hang up and get my answer on the right heel. Okay. Well, I'm not I have been in favor of legalizing marijuana. I but I would agree with the other three things you said again. I don't do justice to any of them. But on let me work backwards on the Columbia a package of a very much opposed it I thought of the 1.3 billion at Three or four hundred million should have gone to prevention treatment programs in our own country. I think it's naive to believe that you know, if you don't focus on the demand side and our country, you're going to be successful. I also really worried because I think the government even with a decent president is very much implicated with a military that's very much implicated in human rights abuses with right-wing death squads. The left-wing guerrillas are no better but the but the question is whether or not we want to be directly involved in a military conflict on the overall question of whether this War on Drugs working no and if we create and we put too many people especially with some of the whole does this whole focus on minimum sentences who are for drug use in prison when they could be treated absolute as it's at I think a terrible problem. I don't think it's working well at all. I think and moreover the tragedy of it is I have a bill called. Called forget the name of it, but it's with Jim ramstad treatment for all which basically deals with this discrimination. People can't even get coverage for treatment. So we're not putting the money the we're not providing the coverage for treatment. We're not doing the prevention work. We got a lot of people for low-level offenses that are serving long sentences in prison. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever and some of the sort of efforts and like the Colombian military package. I think are profoundly (00:43:08) mistaken. That's get at least one more caller on here before we wrap up Matt your question, please (00:43:15) yeah, send her a while. So now without belittling the threat of having a republican in the executive and legislative branch. My question is this if we feel that nature is a throwaway vote and we don't vote where beliefs are ya then how will any change really come about do you feel that change needs to start with the voters and showing support for Nader or change needs to come from the top? We need to vote to keep or an office and kicked out of office. Well, you know, there's Matt the first thing that you said, I've got a really you really stirred something in my soul you may or may not have tended to so you said vote for do we vote for what we believe in I'm not going to tell you not to vote for who you believe in. I mean because you know, I went through this sign in fact slogan of the whole campaign every speech I ended especially the beginning was when people didn't think that a chance I said this time vote for who you believe in or what you believe in and I do not think I can tell you not to the question then becomes what you believe in what kind of final analysis you you make and and I don't think the choices are, you know, vote and support and Ralph Nader or being for a top-down politics. I tried to say it earlier today in the column that that I think the difference is make a difference. I'd be very worried about George w-- Bush becoming president. I think it would be bad. I People are very bad for our country. I believe that that's my honest Viewpoint. Others have a different viewpoint on the other hand. I don't want to see just the top down politics and I'm sick of people saying well, you know, therefore, you know, you don't you don't speak out for what you believe in. That's what you're saying. You don't organize for what you believe in and I do think we have to thrust forward a a stronger Grassroots politics have been a more stronger Progressive Politics the irony to me, but I don't think that that Ralph Nader is necessarily the vehicle to get there and for me, it's he's not because I'm going to be supporting the vice president for sure. Although I will continue to be critic as well to me. The key point is how to get there and and I really think that there's two contradictions that I'm trying to figure out one is why is it that just look at the polls even the polls show that people huge margins are for health security for themselves their families and More of an investment in affordable childcare, they believe in the idea of living wage jobs therefore in strong Environmental Protection, etc, etc. And yet the politics in the country nationally Democrats and Republicans included. I don't think really clearly reflects that will some of that's what we've been talking about which is the way in which money is kind of diluted. If you will some of the strong positions that I think that are part of the democratic party should take on these issues and the second thing is you have all this good Grassroots organizing some great work being done around the country on real portent justice issues and yet the whole doesn't equal to sum of the parts. It doesn't get reflected in terms of cloud and washed and I see that every day as a senator. So the question is how to deal with those contradictions and and I am interested in how all of us can figure out ways to do a better job of really pushing this agenda forward to meet politics is not about me. It's not about one person. It's about public service. It's about involving people in Minnesota, and I think We have that's going to be our challenge. (00:46:42) Finally Senator. We're going to hear for people who listen or watch on TV here a lot of speeches this week how much how important are they and it should we pay a lot of attention or are they mostly for (00:46:56) show? Well, I mean, I don't want to say I don't know that therefore I mean there's again I sort of an a/b answer. I mean the answer is look the conventions are not wearing my political science hat and not being particularly unique. I'm not being very original in my analysis conventions aren't what they used to be. Oh the too much of the conventions are scripted if that's what you mean about sort of not real. There's not enough good honest substantive debate no question about it. And in that sense, you know, not terribly inspiring in another sense. It's I think important Al Gore speech and other speeches will be important just as George Bush's W Bush's speech was because it gives you some sense of where they're heading and what they're trying to say to people in the country and I think that's I think that's important to take note of for sure. (00:47:50) Okay. Thanks so much for joining us Senator. Thanks for having me guitar music by state of Minnesota senator Paul wellstone. On joining us from Los Angeles where of course the Democratic National Convention getting underway today and we'll have coverage all weekend all week long. I should say our coverage begins at seven o'clock each evening here on Minnesota Public Radio. Also a reminder that we'll have much more on the convention all kinds of additional information can be found at our website, Minnesota Public Radio dot-org. So tune in seven o'clock tonight for live coverage here on the radio. And also check out our website, Minnesota Public Radio dot org five minutes now before 12, this is midday coming to you in Minnesota Public Radio.