With news from Minnesota Public Radio, I'm Greta Cunningham Salvation Army officials in Austin are asking for volunteers to help sandbag today. Austin is in the midst of widespread flooding after nearly four and a half inches of rain fell yesterday and this morning the Salvation Army has put out a call to volunteers to help sandbag and move items at its headquarters in downtown Austin Police in Spring Valley. Minnesota. Say conditions are beginning to improve across the area all black top roads in Spring Valley have been reopened but there is some flooding on secondary roads, the national weather service has extended a flood warning for Filmore County in Southeastern Minnesota until noon flood warnings are also in effect for the Cedar River Turtle Creek and Dobbins Creek in the city of Austin published Reports. Say Diageo is considering selling minneapolis-based Pillsbury, Minnesota public radio's Bill Catlin reports news reports indicate the london-based parent company is considering selling the Minneapolis Food Giant possibly to its Twin Cities neighbor General Mills. Diageo isSo reportedly considering other options including some sort of joint venture One Source familiar with the situation says the company has been in talks about Pillsbury, but an announcement is not expected before early September a Diageo official declined to comment if Diageo cells Pillsbury, it's expected to face a tax bill of as much as one and a half billion dollars that could make an outright sale less likely than a deal in which Diageo trades Pillsbury for a block of stock in the acquiring company Pillsbury has cut 750 jobs enclosed a plant this year. The company has more than thirty two hundred employees in Minnesota. I'm Bill Catlin Minnesota Public Radio. General Mills officials could not be immediately reached for comment right now in the Twin Cities are import of partly cloudy skies a temperature of 78 degrees. That's a news update. I'm Greta Cunningham programming an MPR is supported by Valleyfair family amusement park where you choose your kind of fun. Thrill rides like Power Tower live entertainment and the refreshing water park six minutes past 11:00.mark good morning, and welcome to midday in Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian Authority president Yasser Arafat are coming to Washington for what some say is one last attempt to bring peace to the Middle East President Clinton has invited Barack and Arafat to Camp David for a summit meeting designed to resolve the final issues dividing the two sides and the prospects for an agreement are not all that bright today on the eve of the summit Brock has been fending off three no-confidence vote soon as government and three parties have dropped out of his ruling Coalition Arafat for his part reportedly is worried that he's going to be assassinated if he gives in to Israeli demands and time for an agreement is running short both sides phases of Timber 13th deadline to reach an agreement or face. The possibility of renewed violence President Clinton is quoted as saying while there is no guarantee of Success not to try would guarantee failure while today on midday on the eve of the summit. We're going to take a closer look at some of the issues dividing the Israelis and Palestinians will also be opening the phone lines for your questions. But first of all, we've been joined by former vice president Walter Mondale who of course was on hand at Camp David 22 years ago for the historic Middle East negotiations that resulted in the peace agreement between Israel and Egypt morning. Mr. Vice president. Good morning. Thanks for joining us I had to do it was 1978 was at a similar situation to what negotiators are facing today, or was there more hope really in 1978 that something might be achieved at Camp David at the time we convened. This was with President Sadat and prime minister begin President Carter. There was I think a little more hope than you read about now, but there was also a lot of concern that that would fail with all kinds of serious repercussions and it many times during the 12 days that we're up there. It looked like it was going to fail so it wasn't easy lifting then either there were some parts to it that were different and in that sense more encouraging than first of all, we were dealing with President Sadat the president of Egypt Largely about matters that didn't go to the central part of then Israel. And nor with any of the territory that where there's religious connection like Jerusalem or the West Bank Judea and Samaria as Beggin like to call it and we were not dealing with and the second thing was a big and was the Prime Minister of Israel and there was and he was very much in control that government. He was a very strong-willed challenging person to work with but we knew if we got a deal he had the power to get it through his own government. So in this sense weird, this this conference is dealing with tougher issues and it's dealing with to negotiators that are not as strong as the ones we With Barack who I think is very fine leader. There's a new system of government in Israel where the prime minister is directly elected. I think it's led to a more distant relationship between the Prime Minister and the Parliament the news that then used to exist as you announced three of the minor parties have pulled out of his Coalition. So he goes into this with a government that's in the minority that could change when he gets back. We don't know but right now it's not very it's not going to help his negotiating power. The second thing is Arafat ability or interest in delivery on a deal is not at all clear. You mentioned that he was might be fearful of assassination. I had not read that but Its historic point that Sadat was assassinated and I had that feeling that that might happen when we reached our agreement in Camp David. How does the actual process work at Camp David is each side in their own little cabin and then the president runs back and forth or how does that how does that work? It's very informal. There are Cottages up there. It's on the top of a small Mountain you're away from the rest of the world. You might say it's a handsome but small little Community up there on the mountain surrounded by a wire fence and protected by the Army and so on it's there's a Large Cottage called the Aspen Lodge Roosevelt once called it Shangri-La where the president lives then there's I think for more cottages and then there's a large sort of dining area and reception hall. There's also a bowling alley a tennis court a shooting range and plenty of room to walk around and so on and there's also a theater there and I happen to use all of though. I know the end what happens is our little it by may be different this time, but I know what happened when we had our Summit is that the president had spent a lot of time mastering this issue felt very very deeply about it had spent a lot of time talking to Sadat and Beggin about it and had his whole crew secretary Vance Brzezinski everybody myself thoroughly engaged in trying to bring about this what became successful peace agreement. Similarly Bagan came with Moshe Dayan azer Weitzman and the key government leaders and they were all set to go and Sadat came with his key team and we were locked up there for 12 days after a while. It gets pretty Lonesome up there. Remember azer Weisman told me he'd watched movie patent four times. He can think of anything else to do. And the president would work on proposals. He would spend a private time with Salat for a while and then private time with Meghan and then they would get together and then the principles the foreign Ministry then they they broke the topics down into subjects and they'd get the Specialists and the principal officers together and I remember I would Could I spent time with Salat watching the Ali Spinks fight? I don't know what we got out of that but it was fun. And then I spent a lot of time with begging working on some different issues and it all came out. I don't know how you'd explain it but it all came out with a what I think history would record as a very positive result often times looking at negotiations from the outside. It seems like the Diplomat spend a lot of time quibbling over, you know where everybody's going to sit at the table and some of these procedural issues all of which I guess in the world of diplomacy have have some importance at a summit meeting like this in a secluded area though. Is it much more of a face-to-face? Here's here's what I want here is what you want and let's get together kind of a thing or are they are a lot of these little no diplomatic games that get played. Well, there's some of that you know, the But but it's a more informal setting up there. There aren't there's no part of the insult no reporters around it's possible either theory was if we could get everybody together up there if we could if the president could talk alone with these principles separately and together if we could then it would be possible for them to propose things just things without having to have it a campaign issue at home in the hope. Is that by keeping everybody together working on this and setting a deadline deadline? We might be able to come up with an agreement that would be very difficult to accomplish otherwise and I believe that's the genius of the Camp David process if it's possible to get a bargain. That process I think puts in place the best and most hopeful elements that would bring about that agreement. So if there's some hope here and you've got to believe that the president believes there some hope all these issues have been talked about for years now all sides know what they are Barack is clearly risking his career on bringing this about are fat knows that if you going to get a deal he's got to do it now whether they can or will negotiate will find out but if there's some dim remote hope that there is a possibility of an agreement and God let us let us hope that God makes that possible. This is the best way to do it. Is it always better to try in a situation like this or conversely. Do you raise the stakes so high the expectation so high that if there No agreement, the whole process really does collapse. Yeah, it's a question of timing to hold a conference like this when there's utterly no groundwork having been done and there's no serious prospect that you're going to succeed will probably just make things worse on the other hand as I mentioned earlier. There's been a process in place here now for several years when we completed the Camp David Accords. I think we contemplated that the agreement on the West Bank would be reached in five years. Well, I was 22 years ago. This stuff has been talked to death studied to death. Everybody knows what the issues are. It's just a question whether anybody going to bend or not. So at this point, I've number one. I don't think the expectations are too high and matter of fact the stories suggest. This is going to be very difficult and but We've gotten to the point where if this agreement is not reached or something like it the PLO has announced that they're going to declare an independent state of Palestine on September 13th. As I think they ate and the Israelis have said if you do that we're going to declare a hunk of the West Bank were settlements are to be found a part of Israel. And I think those two steps could lead to an awful lot of violence and instability throughout the region. So I'm I don't I don't think either side wants that and maybe Maybe maybe it'll work finally sir. Given those steaks. Do you think if they can't reach agreement on all the issues they will come up with something short of that declare Victory. And so just to keep the keep the process going, you know, they that's I've read some of the stories suggesting that they're hoping to make progress. In other thing get a breakthrough in one or two of the basic questions that could help down the road in the Camp David agreement. It called for a israeli-egyptian peace treaty, but we hadn't completed the treaty that took several months before we finally get the agreement and it in finally called the President Carter gun on a plane and went to Jerusalem and to Cairo to negotiate personally. It was over there for a week till till we finally got a implemented the deal we'd agreed on. So if we can in these talks move some of the difficult issues forward and get some agreement in principle. That's all helpful. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your joining us nice to talk to you former vice president former Minnesota. Senator Walter Mondale joining us during this first hour of our midday program to share some of his insights on the Camp David process tomorrow, the Israelis and Palestinians are scheduled to begin their meetings at Camp David president President Clinton's invitation in an effort to try to reach an agreement on some very very fundamental issues that divide the Israelis and the Palestinians joining us now is Michael Hudson who's a professor of international relations at Georgetown University in Washington former director of Georgetown Center for contemporary Arab studies and former president of the Middle East studies Association, and we invite you to join our conversation as well. If you've got a question or comment about the Middle East Summit. Give us a call our Twin City area number is 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1-800 to for to to 8286512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight were talking sour about the Middle East Summit. That's scheduled to begin tomorrow at Camp David Professor Hudson. Thanks for joining us today morning Gary just 10 days ago a secretary of state Madeleine Albright was quoted as saying that the time wasn't ripe for a high-level Summit a lot of work needed to be done. What changed in the last 10 days. Well, I don't think anything particular change in the last 10 days, but I do believe that the three leaders involved all for different reasons have a stake in bringing this matter to a head certainly President Clinton doesn't have much time left in his term and he understandably would like to leave a positive. Oracle Legacy by sponsoring a israeli-palestinian breakthrough Yasser Arafat is getting old and he would like to bring this risky process to to an end before he dies and I think the most interesting player in this game prime minister Barack has really gone out on a limb here and his is staking his personal reputation as a as a general and a patriot to to make the kind of concessions that at least a portion of the Israeli public is dead set against I think that they all feel that if they want to strike it big here. They've got to do it soon to an outsider. It seems like the Israelis and the Palestinians each have their their fundamental position. Was that they just can't back away from that. They're so Central to their view of the world and the view of their own life. They can't compromise. What is there any room for compromise between the two sides when you get down to these really nitty-gritty issues? Well, you know historically Gary there there has been a fair amount of compromise over the last year's. I mean when you look back at the beginnings of this problem that go back let us say to the establishment of Israel in 1948. The the Palestinians basically thought that that was their land certainly they were by far the largest population on the land at the time and that they wanted it all back and over the years after several Wars and innumerable diplomatic efforts most of which failed with the partial exception of Camp David is Vice President Mondale was telling us the Palestinians certainly came around to a much reduced of view of What they consider their core interests now, they're looking at recovering for a Palestinian State the territories that Israel occupied in the 1967 war. They have recognized Israel's right to exist which they hadn't done for a long time. And so I think that you know, there has been quite a lot of movement and I am not as pessimistic as some people in thinking that the Palestinian leadership may be prepared to give even more ground particularly on the contentious issues of Jerusalem refugees and settlements and I think for the Israelis part of the idea that you could have the Palestinians and indeed the PLO as a viable negotiating partner would have seemed absurd 20 years ago you Israelis felt the PLO was a terrorist organization and the That there could be a PLO dominated Palestinian State let you know on their Eastern borders. I think would have seemed really crazy. So in a way there is a there is a historical Dynamic at work here and I think therefore that For Better or Worse the issues have been rather carefully defined and what's going to happen at Camp David possibly is that the final details and therein is where the devil is of course may actually be worked out. How important is this September 13th deadline? This was supposed to be the day when by which the parties had agreed to to all of the all the terms and yet here we are two months prior to that and and still a long way to go how essential is it that both parties stick to that deadline? Well, I think it's quite important. It's quite symbolically important deadlines in the in this Oslo of the Madrid Oslo. Peace process have had a way of sliding. So there's nothing particularly sacred about that number but that's what the leaders came up with at an earlier stage. It would be I think particularly difficult for our fats and for the Palestinians to let this one slide and he has promised once again to declare a Palestinian State unilaterally on that date with or without an agreement because he let it slide once before and I do think that our fats reputation and his legitimacy are slipping a bit among the Palestinians for Clinton. It's just a question of the clock ticking he needs to make this move now before the election campaign really gets under Way in Dead earnest. And I think for Barack he's the least concerned about this he can he can let it slip a bit if he wants how important is it that the two principles Arafat and Barack especially Barack go into these talks seemingly without broad public support. You would think that to to make a to reach agreements on such fundamental issues again, you would you'd almost have to have the broad support of the people. You're supposedly representing. Well, it is a very tricky business and I think vice president Mondale was right when he compared the relatively stronger leadership positions of Bagan and Sadat back at Camp David in 1978 with our fat and Barack today. It's true that in each case while I think the mainstream of supports in general the idea of having a negotiation and Reaching a final peace treaty. That's what the public opinion polls both among Israelis and Palestinians say in each case, you've got sectors of public opinion that are intensely and and furiously opposed to the kind of compromises that are now being tabled and will be discussed at Camp David. So I think that my own assessment is that that the two leaders can get together and they probably will end up signing a piece of paper. They can probably pull their mainstream public opinion along with it. But without wanting to sound alarmist about it, I do think that down the road each of these leaders are fat and Barack will be in a very insecure position and the risk of an assassination attempt or something like that. Simply cannot be ruled out. It's What happened? Of course in arab-israeli peace making and it certainly could happen again and it might and it doesn't necessarily follow in that circumstance. If that did occur would the agreement be so tied up in the personalities. The individuals involved at the agreement itself would be in danger or would it just be a question of of assassination personal replacement. Well, you know that depends on the degree of political institutionalization on each side and I think in the case of Israel, which has strong and durable political institutions things are not tied so much to the individual that's less clear in the case of the Palestinians under Arafat and where his personal Authority counts for much more. So it is conceivable that if Arafat signed a really bad deal from the from Point of view of Palestinian militants at any rate. You could have a, you know, a serious internal problem among the Palestinians Michael Hutchins is with us. He's a professor of international relations at Georgetown University in Washington former director of Georgetown Center for contemporary Arab studies, and also former president the Middle East studies Association. He's joined us this hour to preview the israeli-palestinian summit, which is scheduled to get underway at Camp David tomorrow. And if you'd like to join our conversation, if you've got a question or comment about the summit give us a call here, six five, one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll free at 1-888-438-6557 and 1-800-222-8477 RCMP in just a couple of minutes a new poll looks at how the candidates. You're doing in the US Senate race and people who live near the landmark Brewery and st. Paul are complaining that the manufacturer of ethanol is stinking up the neighborhood. I'm very fanelli that story and all the news tomorrow on Morning Edition from 4 to 9 here on Minnesota Public Radio Canada wfm 91.1 in the Twin Cities, by the way over the noon hour today second hour of our midday program. We're going to hear from Washington correspondent for the New Yorker and well-known author, Joel Klein talking about the political system in this country and specifically the election campaign underway for President. Joe Klein at noon right now news headlines. Here's Greta Cunningham Greta. Thanks Gary. Good morning, Israeli Prime Minister who Barack is defending himself at home as he prepares to head to the US for a crucial Mideast. Peace. Summit Barack is facing two no confidence votes in Parliament. He says the people of Israel voted him into office and they want him to make peace with the past. Most Indians a leader of the likud party says Barack is conducting a dangerous process as he sets out to make peace with the Palestinian hardliners. Say Barack is ready to make too many concessions three rightist parties have bolted for the opposition in protest collapsing barack's governing Coalition Barack has postponed his departure to the us until after the votes President Clinton wants to make sure there's enough oil for people in the Northeast during the winter. He's announcing today the creation of a home heating oil reserve for the region Congress would have to approve releasing the oil American cyclist Lance Armstrong has surged into the overall lead at the Tour de France Armstrong is the defending champ and made a late climb in the Pyrenees in Regional news police officers are notifying residents of flood-prone areas in Austin of the potential for serious flooding after a weekend of heavy rainfall officers are using their squad cars public address systems and sirens in low-lying areas of the city to notify residents of flood warnings on the Cedar River. Opens Creak and Turtle Creek after almost four and a half inches of rain fell in the city yesterday in early this morning police. Chief. Paul. Phillips says water levels are the highest he's seen in years and says water levels on creeks and streams that drain into Austin from the north indicate water levels in the city will continue to rise Philip says the national weather service has not yet indicated when the water levels will crest Salvation Army and Austin is asking citizens for help. They're asking for volunteers to help sandbag and move items at its headquarters in downtown Austin the forecast for Minnesota today calls for mostly sunny skies Statewide with high temperatures ranging from 75 in the north to 85 in the South checking current conditions around the region Rochester reports Fair skies and 79 degrees skies are partly cloudy in Duluth and 67 and in the Twin Cities partly cloudy skies a temperature of 81 Gary. That's a look at the latest news. Thanks Greta about 26 minutes now before noon. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio in our guest. This hour is Michael Hudson who As international relations at Georgetown University in Washington Middle East expert and he's joined us today on the eve of the israeli-palestinian summit to take a look at some of the issues that the negotiators will be trying to resolve and give us some idea of what are the prospects for an actual agreement at the camp David Summit again. If you have a question, give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Bob. Go ahead with your question, please good morning. My question is what happens if there is a vote of no confidence does the knesset also is that dissolved and would Barack Virge as as a stronger and a election contest that he is now or weaker. That's a very interesting question. And in some ways it would be treading new constitutional ground and Israel because Vice the prime minister is now directly elected and no one's quite sure. I think whether he has a mandate that over overrides to some extent a setback in the knesset. First of all, I don't think he's going to I don't think he's going to lose any vote of confidence today. I think he's got plenty of support from a number of quarters such as merits or the era block that that would go along with him, but we're at to happen then it would most probably require the calling of new elections or at least there would be a need to try to form a new government. He would be asked to form a new government and if that didn't work you would be going eventually to new elections, so If by some chance he were to be voted down within the next few hours. I think that could certainly set back the timetable for these planned talks at Camp David, but I would be extremely surprised if that happens. Is it unusual Professor Hudson for in this case Israeli leader to be marching off to something so important with so much sniping going on back home seems like you'd all want to be on the same page and I'll and United for something like this. No, I don't think it's really unusual Gary. There's there's a high level of sniping that always goes on and Israeli politics and you rarely find even the most popular prime minister's in the past had we're constantly being sort of beaten over the head and shoulders over one issue or another. I think of course, what is what is crucial here is that this is a very historic project the Are very high and it would be better certainly if he could he could March into Camp David with a clear solid majority in that 120 member of knesset the parliament. He certainly won't be able to do that. But despite the defection of these three parties just over the weekend. I don't think he's got a real problem in the knesset. I think that even with those parties out, there's going to be some supporters that will come back and I can see that he can go back and easily well fairly easily find 62 votes a bare majority to to ratify what whatever he signs and then of course he is pledged to take the whole business to the Israelis to the voting public for a referendum. But if the polls are right 52% of the last poll These Rayleigh public favored is going into these talks. And if you unless he gives away the whole store. There's a pretty good chance. I think that that he would win the referendum as well. Well, the Palestinians be voting on this agree if there is an agreement be voting on it as well. Well, there was a report that that are fat will put it to a referendum among the Palestinians. I just I just heard that and that's that's quite possible and it will be very interesting, you know to see what what they might decide on everything depends. Of course on what the final document is about and that's why the whole question of success hinges. I think first of all on what you do about Jerusalem. Secondly what you do about the Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories, and thirdly what you do about Palestinian refugees, Outside of Palestine and Israel who want to go home and who have a legal right to go home? So they've got some how to address those matters if they want to move forward Catherine your question, please Mr. Hudson has just enumerated the three questions I had and it because it seems as though since they office for agreement in 1993 many of those settlements have been built on the West Bank and Jerusalem extended and I don't think the promised in Ian's can agree to us. Peace. Unless they have quite a bit of something given to them there. And of course Jerusalem if they don't have that it seems and then the reparations which you just named those pre things and do you think that if Barack can give way on those three things that the referendum The men would support him. Well you Catherine you've just, you know enumerated the whole Crux of the problem and I suppose it would be foolish to sound at all optimistic given the history and given the realities and the differences here it I don't have access to whatever working documents Barack and the Israelis may have put forth. But I have read that in there's the suggestion has been made at least that the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem be extended once again to include the Arab Village of a Buddhist which hitherto has been in the West Bank, which would then become the location of a Palestinian Capital even though it is it is far fairly far removed from what most people think of as real Jerusalem moreover the there are reports that the Israelis may be ready. Countenance some kind of Palestinian administrative presence in the heart of East Jerusalem presumably in the old walled City and maybe in the surrounding areas some kind of administrative presence to sort of fudge the whole question of sovereignty now if they're really serious about that that will give our fat something at least to go to the Palestinian public with saying that you know, he didn't he didn't forsake this this absolutely fundamental goal. But whether the Israelis are really prepared to do that and whether that is really enough is of course hard to say if you go back to the texts the UN 242 called for land for peace and the withdrawal of Israel from the territories captured in 1967 with perhaps some small border exceptions, but what Talking about now is you know is a huge reduction in Palestinian expectations. And you know, it won't it won't be easy to sell that and I think similarly without going into the same amount of detail when you look at the question of settlements Catherine is quite right. There's been a very substantial amount of new settlement building and the thickening of old settlements since the Oslo agreement back in 1993. And while the the Israelis the formula that they're talking about calls for incorporating into Israel about 10% of the West Bank in in which some 80% of these settlers actually live. These are big apartment blocks mostly around Jerusalem and in And close to the old borders of pre 67 Israel, but that and then presumably the canceling or the dismantlement of quite a large number of very small settlements throughout the rest of the West Bank, but still that leaves a very huge number hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers still in lands that were captured by Israel after 1967 and it will be a hard sell but perhaps not an impossible one for Arafat to make to the Palestinians and as for the question of refugees, well, that's that's a really tough one. There are more Palestinians probably about 4 million or more outside of Palestine and Israel in the which is more than the number of Palestinians inside and these folks their descendants now refugees from 1948. From 1967 want to get out of there refugee camps or the sort of legal limbo that they live in a number of neighboring Arab countries and go back. So there has to be some kind of acknowledgement of this problem, which would involve I should think of the Israelis of being willing to accept a certain number of them back into Israel something that no Israeli government has so far been able, you know been willing to even admit the possibility of another amount going into the Palestinian areas. And then another maybe a larger group of being sort of expatriated to other countries many of them far outside the Arab world. These are enormous problems. And of course, they are expensive ones and the United States, no doubt will be expected to pick up the greater part of the AB apparently prime minister Barak had quite a wild time at the knesset today talking about his role in this process as he faced no confidence vote. So saying the moment of truth is upon us that a year ago the public gave him a mandate to lead not to protect what exists he says, he's supported by two million voters in Israel. But all the while he apparently was heckled pretty badly by the his right wing opponents and at one point had to ask whether he could even be able it would be allowed to speak in the knesset today. So emotions running high on this issue. No doubt about it. Is there any chance you suppose Professor Hudson given what's going on in Israel? At least that they might delay the summit for a while. Well, I think there is you can't rule that out. If this session of the knesset gets totally out of hand that it's conceivable that Barack will say let's put this off for a few more days. It's a high-wire act that that he's engaged in and it will be a real test of a politician whose real capabilities and strengths is still somewhat in question. I remember I think we all remember when Barack was elected last year that you know, he came in he was Israel's most decorated soldier. He seemed to be in command of things but his political maneuvering and behavior in the interval since then has not been very impressive and he seems to have been dogged by all kinds of factional infighting among members of his own Coalition a lot of which has nothing to do with the peace process. A lot of that has to do with purely Domestic issues but he has not emerged as a truly sort of heroic decisive figure on the order say of earlier prime minister such as Ben-Gurion. So what he's doing is putting his reputation on the line as a military man and saying look this is a question about Israel's security present and future and I know more about that than anybody and he is also counting on the fact that that he has been directly elected by the Israeli public and is not so immediately then tied to the knesset but but this is all pretty new stuff and it's not, you know, it's not clear that that that he can weather it. Although I must say as I said earlier when I when you look at the numbers, it looks to me like like he can squeak through and if he does Then then I think we have crossed an important hurdle and the Israeli public may be persuaded to go along with it, but he will be a Marked Man for for extremists inside Israel. For sure. Michael Hudson is with us professor of international relations at Georgetown University Middle East expert joining us on the eve of the scheduled israeli-palestinian Summit at Camp David the mr. Barack, mr. Arafat scheduled to arrive in Washington and then head out to Camp David tomorrow with President Clinton serving as the official host and and mediator I suppose is the correct is that his role as far as you can tell Mr. Hudson a professor Hudson is so that's an interesting question. I think he's got to do more than mediate the problem with peace process and the American effort in my opinion is that we have played or rather passive role that has to do in part with the kind of domestic political situation that inclines any American government to be more sympathetic to the Israelis than to the Arabs and it may have something to do with Clinton's own priorities and scheduling but it seems to me that the the progress since Oslo has not been terribly impressive and I don't believe that the Clinton Middle East negotiating team by this time has the strength or the cloud or the reputation really to move things forward and that that place is therefore an extra burden on the president himself and it'll be really interesting to see if President Clinton can do the kind of job owning and arm-twisting that President Carter was ultimately able to do with with considerable success at Camp David, but I don't think that this meeting is going to succeed unless Clinton takes a kind of a proactive role evil your question, please. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. I do agree with that last statement from the guy there Michael Mann it is that I think the upcoming meeting between their Aragon RFID is not going to bring about this illusion that that can solve the problem over there which brings you like the need for the US and the United Nations just step in and improved what could be a long lasting solution to the problem, you know, cuz I think there are major issues from both sides particularly the the demand from the Palestinians yet. They Jerusalem become their feature of capital that is an issue that I think can be resolved by the United the United States and the United Nations. That's my comment. Thank you. Well, you may be right about that. These are these issues have eluded diplomats for 50 years now and you know if there can be a breakthrough it would certainly be big news indeed if if it fails if they can't come away from this saying, you know, at least with a cosmetic kind of statement of vague principles, then I think we're in for some real trouble over there. I don't know that the United States Congress or the your US public opinion is ready to permit the American government to send in troops or to send in, you know, a lot of personnel and spend a lot of money to try to work things out that the parties themselves were unable to do and I don't think the International Community in general is ready to put in that kind of muscle. I mean take a look at where you know the you For example has played an important role up in South Lebanon until Israel's withdrawal last month the NFL contingent up. There was only able really to watch of the ongoing low-level Warfare between the Israelis and their Lebanese surrogates on the one hand and the Hezbollah and the Lebanese resistance on the other hand and it was a very dangerous business. A lot of un Personnel got killed over the years in South Lebanon. It would be an infinitely more difficult problem to imagine some kind of an international Force coming in to as it were separate or monitor Israelis and Palestinians because they're so intermingled now with one another so as vice president Mondale mentioned earlier. This is a very risky kind of business and the stakes are high. If you fall off the wire, you know your you follow along way and it's a pretty could be a pretty disastrous conclusion. There's speculation today that if the talks do fail we're going we're looking at another war in that part of the world. Do you agree with that? Well, I don't know whether you call it a war but I think if it came out as a clear failure and I'm I doubt that the diplomats will allow it to come out as a clear failure. They'll find a way to call it some kind of a success but if it is essentially a clear failure, I would think that the Palestinians will go ahead and declare their state the Israelis will then Annex certain Palestinian territories, and this will definitely lead to an upsurge in more militant Palestinian Nationalist and religious opinion and activity that Could weaken and cause confusion or even Anarchy within the Palestinian ranks, and I think there would be Regional ramifications as well. I think that such a failure would have very serious and negative consequences for Jordan. It would set the syrians off in a more militant position than they have been in and I think it would give rise to a new impetus to anti-American and religious fanaticism throughout the region including even in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Even though the US has been trying to broker an agreement. That's right. We are good efforts are not rewarded if they fail. Thanks Professor. Appreciate your joining us today. Certainly. Thank you Professor Michael Hudson who's a professor of international relations at Georgetown University in Washington former director of Georgetown Center for contemporary Arab studies and former president the Middle East studies Association joining us during this first hour of our midday program to preview the Arab or the palestinian-israeli summit that is scheduled to get underway at Camp David tomorrow. Al Sharpton is one of the most polarizing figures in American politics conservatives condemned him as an agent of intolerance even some on the left called him a demagogue for his role in controversies from Tawana Brawley to Amadou Diallo, but Sharpton has built a loyal following and cannot be ignored as evidence by visits from presidential candidates Gore and Bradley will talk to Al Sharpton next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. Talk of the Nation begins at 1 o'clock here on Minnesota Public Radio And here is the writers almanach from Monday's the 10th of July 2000. It's the anniversary of the Allied invasion of Sicily on this day in 1943. It was the first axis Homeland that the Allies invaded and the largest Invasion Force ever assembled up to that time 2500 vessels the u.s. 7th Army attacking on the west and the British eighth Army on the East. It's the birthday of the Canadian short story writer Alice Munro born in Wingham Canada 1931 began writing while in college her first collection came out in 1968 Dance of the happy Shades. It's the burst of jazz singer IV Anderson born in Gilroy, California 1905 best remembered for her 11 years singing in the Duke Ellington band. It's the birthday of composite Carl orff in Munich 1895 best known for his secular. Oratorio, Carmina Burana 1937 who also developed a system of musical education for children based on developing a sense of Rhythm through group exercise and playing percussion instruments, a system still widely used it was on this day in 1890, Wyoming joined the Union as the 44th State. It's the birthday of Marcel proust born in Paris 1871. He was a frail asthmatic child who adored his mother soon after she died soon after his father's death Marcel was 35 years old. He withdrew from social life secluded himself in his cork line Department in Paris and concentrated on writing his great work. Prince of things past all the recherche du Temps perdu which he wrote and then revised and expanded until it was three times its original length when he died in 1922 of seven volumes. He completed the final revision only on the first for Swann's way within a budding Grove the government a sway and cities of the plain. It's the birthday of the painter James McNeill Whistler born in Lowell, Massachusetts 1834. He moved to Paris and then to Venice and then to London best known as the painter of arrangement in grey and black number one the artists mother in 1872 commonly known as whistlers mother. And it's the birthday of John Calvin the Protestant reformer born in Picardy France in 1509. Here's a poem for today by Kate Barnes entitled night light. Lying in bed in the pitch-black a little breathing underlies my own it is my dog on the floor. We are both alive here. And I struggle with the old illusion. There is something else in the room a story in the darkness if I wake up I can write it down. It is the light of the purple grape the Deep glowing light that emanates from my black horses flank the knee-length straight shiny black hair of the round faced girl and Sonora dancing with her groom at the fiesta while all the aunts sad and smiled or it is the telephone pole with black beauty stamped on it or the thin black dog named Ink Spot or the one Sleek all black cow with black horns in the heard of holsteins always a silhouette it is the screaming games of Murder in the dark house the quick uncertain kiss in the pantry the running feet. They're all here in the darkness with me. They crowd me with their light. Pumbaa Kate Barnes night light from where the deer were published by David are codeine and used by permission here on the writers almanac for Monday July the 10th made possible by 21 North Main.com where Book Lovers find more than 10 million used rare and antiquarian books on the web at 21 North Main.com be well do good work and keep in touch Regional broadcast of the writers. Almanac are supported by market Banks your community bank offering a broad range of financial services for your business and personal needs. We have news headlines next and then right after the news political writer Joe Klein on this year's election campaign. You'll never miss a story a newscast or a favorite MPR news program again. Just visit Minnesota public radio's News section at Minnesota Public Radio dot-org. It's constantly updated with the latest news programming Minnesota Public Radio dot org and click news. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a partly cloudy sky and 81 degrees at Kenner wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul Sunny to partly sunny through the afternoon with a high reaching 84 85 degrees and other three degrees warmer partly cloudy tonight with a low in the mid 60's and then partly cloudy tomorrow temperature high right around 80 degrees.