(00:00:24) Good morning, and welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us nearly 200,000 children in Minnesota are either going to bed hungry each day or each night, or they don't know where their next meal is coming from nearly 200,000 children. And apparently the problem is not getting any better. Even with the booming economy. According to a new study out this week from Tufts University. There has been virtually no progress made in fighting hunger in the last three years now, it should be noted that according to this same study. The situation here in Minnesota is actually pretty good when compared to the rest of the nation. The problem of hunger is worse in 46 other states, but nevertheless 200,000 Minnesota children are either going hungry or are in danger of going hungry and joining us this morning to discuss some of the reasons why and what might be done about it our former st. Are George Latimer who served as mayor back in the 1980s when the food shelf network was developed to help feed hungry people also with us this hour, by phone is Bonnie Becker who's the director of the adult support division of the State Department of Human Services. That's the agency that oversees the food stamp program in Minnesota joining us a little later this hour Richard Gable executive director of The Second Harvest st. Paul Food Bank. The phone lines are open as always. We're talking the sour about hunger and Minnesota hunger in America, and if you have a question or a comment give us a call here. Our Twin City area number is 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free. That number is 1-800-218-4243 or 1-800 to for to to 828. Mayor Latimer Bonnie Becker. Thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you. Good morning. Let's start here. Could you two folks give us some idea of who it is that these hungry people are Bonnie Becker. Do you have a reading on kind of the demographics? Are these all single people are they families are the immigrants welfare recipients what kind of people fall into this category of hungry (00:02:43) people? Just over 210,000 people in Minnesota are receiving food stamps approximately 95,000 households about 45,000 our families who receive the Minnesota family investment program and about 50,000 our households that are not on other Public Assistance programs. So it's about half and half families with children and individuals. (00:03:24) Now people who are receiving food stamps one would assume that they're not among those going hungry. Is that a safe (00:03:31) assumption? Well, the food stamp program is for low-income households to supplement their food purchases and help maintain a healthy diet with each Receiving an average of 68 dollars per month in food stamps. It is a supplementary program rather than meeting. All of their dietary needs (00:03:58) in terms of geography are there are there more people receiving food stamps in rural Minnesota in the urban areas of Minnesota. How does that break (00:04:09) up? It breaks out that there are significantly more just because of population differences in there in the urban areas receiving food stamps, but rural Minnesota receives food stamps as well. Particularly. The numbers are higher with the elderly as a percentage of the population. (00:04:37) Mayor Latimer. Let me ask you something here. Now you were you were mayor back in the 70s 80s And as I recall when this whole food shelf network was started was it not seen as a kind of a temporary solution to a temporary problem. (00:04:58) It was Dick Gable, of course began. He wasn't the only one who began but my first experience with with dick Gabriel of the second now called The Second Harvest and I know that we thought it could be solved in a in an emergency kind of way and I think all of us were so bird to learn that even though the economy turned around that the needs continued for a whole variety of reasons. I did what I want to ask Bonnie a question. May I do there Bonnie? Thank you for your overview of the Minnesota numbers. The tuft. The Tufts report makes reference to the fact that there's kind of a perverse consequence to welfare, too. Work and that there is a decline in food stamp activity among even those people who continue to be eligible because of misunderstandings that because they're well off welfare. It means there are food stamps. That's what they observe. Nationally. I'm wondering if the Minnesota experience has any parallel to (00:06:08) that. Mr. Vladimir. We do not have a study based on Minnesota data at this point. However studies that we've reviewed from the Department of Agriculture and from the government Accounting Office would serve to underscore the tough study that you're talking about. It's our plan to to identify why the numbers are dropping the numbers of persons receiving food stamps peaked in Minnesota in the early. 90s and they've gone down significantly with 95 thousand households receiving food stamps in 99 and we do not know whether the data the general data that's available speaks to the Minnesota experience as well. (00:07:05) So what we what we one more please and I'm not going to try to get your salary as mediator but Bonnie getting back to your comment the peak was in the early 90s. What was that Peak from which the 95,000 figure is (00:07:20) drawn in 1994 just over a hundred and thirty three thousand households were receiving food stamps. That number has gone down today to 95,000 in (00:07:36) 1999. Thank you has the algebra of the eligibility requirements change significantly or theoretically again, Everybody what's happened on that (00:07:47) front. There has been some tightening of the eligibility requirements for food stamps. But also the good economy and the number of jobs have enabled some people to leave the food stamp program (00:08:10) joining us this hour Bonnie Becker who is the director of the adult support division of the State Department of Human Services former st. Paul Mayor George Latimer is with us as well and joining us a little later this hour Richard Gable executive director of The Second Harvest st. Paul Food Bank, we're talking the sour about a new study that's out on hunger in Minnesota a study conducted by Tufts University which found that the better part of seven percent of all Minnesota families are going hungry or at least are in danger of going hungry On Any Given Day now nationally Minnesota does pretty well, but that is a significant number of people who aren't getting enough to eat, and we thought it would be interesting today to find out why that's happening what might be done about it. If you'd like to join our conversation. Give us a call here, six five, one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at 1-800-222-8477 6,000 or 1-800 to for 22828. Let's take a caller from Oakdale Kimberly. Go ahead, (00:09:19) please. Whoops. (00:09:23) Now, you're on the air Kimberly. (00:09:24) Sorry Hi, I had a friend who lived in Minneapolis up until last year. She has four children all of them big kids bigger than me as a full-grown adult and aged between 7 and 13 and she was no longer eligible for WIC because that's I guess five years and under the last ten days of the month. She was on public assistance the last ten days of the month. They they had no food stamps left. They rarely maybe once or twice a week had meat and maybe once a month had fruit oftentimes dinner was grains and biscuits or gravy and biscuits and they've since moved to Indianapolis where she's they have the same kind of a thing welfare to work and the emphasis there. Since on housing like it is here which is wonderful considering the weather but the emphasis there is seems to be more on food and they get more than a hundred and twenty dollars more a month in food stamps in Indianapolis and they got here in Minneapolis. My father lived in Florida and there again, the emphasis wasn't on housing. It was on food and he got by himself enough food stamps that he made it through a month and here he barely get he get some hundred and two dollars a month in food stamps. But again, you know, he's only paying a hundred dollars in rent, right, you know, so but the thought that people are and these people didn't have any idea that there were food shelves or how to access them. They knew that people were donating food and they were donating mittens and and scarves but this And their neighbors didn't have any access to that. (00:11:24) Okay, Ronnie Becker. Let me ask you first. Is there a pretty wide variation in food stamp benefits available state to state? (00:11:35) Yes. There is a variation. It depends on the amount of cash assistance that a family would receive if a family receives in a month a higher amount of cash assistance, that would have a tendency to bring the value of the food stamp portion of their Grant down. So there is that variation from state to state the program is however administered by the Department of Agriculture the federal agency and generally speaking persons are eligible if their income is a hundred and thirty percent. Of poverty which would be a very low income level about for a family of four. As this lady was speaking of would be under eighteen hundred dollars a month for a family of (00:12:33) four. And again, even if folks are receiving the food stands the idea here is that they are a mere supplement. Right? I mean, they're not supposed to replace the full food budget. (00:12:46) That's (00:12:46) correct. Mayor Latimer, how is it that people why aren't people aware of the benefits that are available to them in this case the folks didn't know it's not a benefit of such but they don't even know that things like food shelves exist. How can that be? (00:13:03) Well, remember we're changing radically changing an old system of welfare and every welfare department throughout Minnesota is I won't say scrambling but the retooling because they're moving from merely people who cuts X for poor people to managers of households and supporters of people transitioning to work. So it would it would be I think expected that Communications along a lot of think about how many of us know what Bonnie Becker just told us about eligibility. It's very complex. And so poor people in trouble looking for decent housing and hungry scrambling to get some contact with the welfare department and being told about the the eligibility transition to work. It's not surprising to me that there'd be miscommunication along the line however, a couple of points and and goodness knows I'll be the last one who wants to to minimize what's happening in Minnesota, but a couple of important points, I think Minnesota and it's like Fletcher is to be congratulated because we're among those few States who are not talking about merely getting people out of welfare and on to a job. We're talking more about getting out of poverty moving out of poverty and we're putting our money where our mouths are because we're saying essentially that we as a through the welfare system and the rest of the support systems will be tracking folks. So if you get a low paying job, but you still the total the total amount you get still leaves you under the poverty line will continue to support you through a variety of means up to a hundred and twenty percent above the poverty line. I think that's really laudable that we're doing it. It's still too early. I'm not happy with President Clinton. I'm not happy with the people celebrating the success of a welfare reform program where the evidence is not there yet in the middle of a booming economy. I do not accept a definitive statement yet. We must at least acknowledge that Minnesota is focusing on people's self sufficiency rather than merely getting them off the rolls second point I want to make and thank goodness dick Gabriel is here because he's devoted. I won't say his adult life because he was not young when we first met and he and he started the food bank in st. Paul. They grew to Second Harvest and he can talk more authoritatively, but I do want to make a second point and that is that a minnesotans continue to be extraordinarily generous in providing emergency food through the Second Harvest and indeed the national study from Tufts. Although doesn't say that we're free of problems does acknowledge that we are in the upper tier of people being served. (00:16:07) Mr. Gable. Welcome to midday. Glad thank you apologize for being late. Are you surprised that there hasn't been well is that so many people at this point yet are still going hungry. (00:16:21) We (00:16:21) do have the economy is booming. We do have programs in place at least to help to some degree and yet no measurable progress seems to be made in this this issue. Well, I think what your assessment is probably very correct in terms of the economic boom and so forth, but the real question is who is benefiting from this and so what we're finding people moving from welfare to work are getting jobs that really don't place them too much higher than where they were in terms of what was accumulative when their welfare grants and so forth. So give you an example in our food shelves the visits there by individuals and over 40% of people using food shelves in Minnesota have one or more jobs. And when we asked them what their salary is, it's on average between six and seven seven and a half dollars and so they have to make some very hard choices in terms of shelter in terms of housing being so tight. Way it is now and all of the other things and so I don't think it should be a surprise to us that we have not moved a significant group into a livable wage situation nor have we not addressed the affordable housing issue? And I think we need to come in people and not stereotype them to recognize they're doing everything they're supposed to be doing and yet they're not able to get ahead. Hmm, John your question, please. (00:17:48) Well my question is and I think you very you started to get at this at the beginning of the show. We have 95 thousand households in Minnesota that are not are receiving food stamps. Do we have any notion as to how many people are in danger of being hungry or not getting any food stamps over that number or are they all being covered in that? 95,000 (00:18:13) Bonnie Becker. Do you know that that (00:18:15) figure It's very difficult to it's very difficult to estimate that number (00:18:27) if I could just jump in a little bit on this one. I think the reality says that we can't get a hard number on it. But we do as we do in takes in the food shelf system ask people when they we know from their income. They're eligible for food stamps. You know, why are you not applying for and it's at that point we started getting some of this anecdotal stuff. They didn't realize you were still eligible for food stamps or they are concerned about all the paperwork that's adjacent to it. Some are struggling with some of the assets issues that is raised by the tough study in terms of how much allowance you're given for a car how much deduction you're given for for shelter and so forth and it pretty good when you're looking at senior citizens. I mean, there's a lot of work from their point of view to get a minimal amount of dollars and I think what the tough study says is that we really all of us. Those in the advocacy Community as well as everyone in general needs to get behind and support the existing programs get the information out there deal with the misinformation because food stamps was intended to be that final safety net. And again what has happened is as taken taken on more of a welfare stigma program and that becomes a barrier. I wish I had all of the numbers but we do know that's a lot of people that are eligible that are using the donated food system and we're trying to plug them back in to Wick to food stamps make sure their kids are using summer feeding programs. They're getting breakfast and lunch at their schools after school programs. So it's a balance of doing both charged Latimer is at the government's responsibility to make sure everybody has enough money so that they can buy the food they need (00:20:08) Oh, my that's a political question. I wouldn't dare address it. However, you have raised money issue lip. Let me see if I can broaden this little bit and then you can bring me back in there a little bit. I don't think we're very good in this country and we're not even very good in Minnesota about the sting wishing that which money alone can solve and that which requires more than that when we started the homeless program in st. Paul, which was just about at the time maybe a little later that the Gable came and enlighten me about the need and the issue in the late 70s. I think we I labeled it. I said, you know, we've looked at the face of the homeless and some of them are the refugees of the economy, but many of them are not and we need to provide more than shelter. Well, I think if it is true that some of our people need more than just a Over their head but a little help a little support to make themselves self-sufficient or relatively so that it's equally true whether you're talking about food education job opportunities Healthcare, it ought not to surprise us that wounded troubled deeply poor often abandoned people are not a real quick and knowing how to reach dick Gable and get a can of soup. And so I wish we were better at say in the numbers are not great. For example, I'm working on a pilot homeless program right now. We just created this thing. We got some funding from the Robert Wood Johnson and we're foundation and we're committed to housing a thousand people over the next five years of the hardest to serve but the whole notion of what we're doing is to bring into that housing everything from medical care psychiatric care chemical addiction intervention. And we have to be real about what portion of our folks need that kind of help. The numbers are not that great compared to our population. They're not so great that we can't manage it. We estimate most people agree that they're probably last year in Minnesota that were 15,000 plus homeless people and we're going to try to house 1,000 of them. Well, that's I know that's a tragedy for those households, but considering the the scale of our state and four and a half going on to five million people and the affluence of our region among the third or fourth month most affluent. It's a manageable number, but we need to identify that population and bring to them more services than just giving them a can of food in something else. I would that's one part of her job. The other part of the job is responding to your question, which was a deep political one that ought to involve every level of government and all of our people which has When should government step in and and acknowledge with money that there are a lot of folks out there working hard and long and they're still poor the Working Poor. We know there are a lot of them. We know there are worthy. We know there are citizens and in general I think in a bipartisan way the center of our country says, yeah, we ought to do something now the Earned Income Tax Credit, I don't mean to get in the jargon but that's a method of telling someone who's making twelve thousand dollars a year that they're going to be rewarded by hard work and have a thousand dollars doesn't intervene in the economy doesn't interrupt the employment relationship telling employers what they have to do that particular program could be increased at the federal level. It could be a we could do things at the state level. So do I think yeah those the top 20% of the population that is enjoyed and that includes me. My family we've enjoyed in the past five years a 43% increase in after-tax income. Meanwhile the bottom 20% have experienced over the last 10 years and absolute decline in the real purchasing color. Now, those are realities those are not political rhetoric. Those are numbers of the tough study just came out again reaffirms those kinds of numbers. So that's a long answer short answer you bet. I think that we as a people ought to address poverty directly and address disability and in and conduct and people who are in trouble in a more direct support of way and that money alone won't do it for such folks. (00:24:57) We're talking this our about the report that's out this week that addresses the issue of hunger in America with specific Focus this hour and hunger in It turns out that something like 200,000 children in Minnesota are either going to bed hungry each night, or at least are in danger going hungry about well, the better part of seven percent of Minnesota families are actually facing. Hunger there. And so we're talking this our about why that is what might be done about it joining us this hour richer Gable executive director of The Second Harvest st. Paul Food Bank former st. Paul Mayor George Latimer as with us and Bonnie Becker who's the director of the adult support division of the State Department of Human Services. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call here, six five. One two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand Twin City area number outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight will get this more callers in just a couple of minutes. (00:26:00) I'm Linda wertheimer later today A Tale of murder revenge and the drug war the former DEA agent believes a Mexican drug cartel had his brother killed. Also Rising fuel costs mean airline tickets go up and a candidate with a small but committed band of supporters religious conservative Gary Bauer that in the day's news later on NPR's All Things Considered (00:26:24) All Things Considered begins at 3 o'clock this afternoon also an invitation to join us over the noon hour something a little different for those of you accustomed to more sober minded analysis of public policy. We're going to hear from a Management Consultant. We don't usually hear from them on. Midday. This is a woman named Loretta LaRoche whose theory is that we could all relax counter that that that's that stress that were feeling if we simply laughed a little bit and I think you'll find what she has to say pretty pretty interesting programming an NPR supported by Renewal by Andersen Window Replacement from a company. You can trust with showrooms in Cottage Grove in St. Louis Park, 6129251951 news headlines now, here's Patty Marciano Petty. (00:27:19) Thanks Gary Republican presidential candidate George W bush says Rover. Is Wade usurped the rights of legislators Bush says he thinks State lawmakers should decide the legality of abortion. The grandmothers of Elian Gonzalez are flying to New York today to make an appeal to the American people for their grandson to come home to Cuba. They're going to New York instead of Miami were the boys living to make their appeal in a less politically charged environment a grand jury is considering the deadly dormitory fire at New Jersey's Seton Hall University and assistant prosecutor says the grand jury has subpoenaed fire inspection records and Engineering plans for the dorm. A woman in New York is suing a doctor who carved his initials into her stomach after she gave birth by cesarean section a lawyer for the doctor blames it on what he calls the doctors frontal lobe disorder state senator. Tom Neville has asked the Minnesota Supreme Court to review his lawsuit against the law firm which negotiated the state's tobacco settlement Neville says the robins Kaplan Miller and Sarah see firms 450 million dollar contingency fee sets a Bad precedent for the state's relationship with private contractors lead attorney. Michael Cera see has argued the fee did not reduce the amount of money won by the state. The attorneys fees were paid by the tobacco industry so far a district court and the Minnesota court of appeals have rejected the Neville suit along Prairie woman has been committed to a treatment center following charges accusing her of driving into a lake with her. Daughter's one daughter died in the other was critically injured Todd County District Judge, Timothy Balland has ruled there is sufficient evidence to show 28 year-old. Lisa Patchen is mentally ill and dangerous the Twin Cities forecast for today becoming mostly cloudy this afternoon with flurries possible later on the high from 10 to 15 tonight Cloudy Skies a 30% chance of light snow the temperatures Rising into the teens in st. Cloud. It's sunny and Eight Below in Duluth. It's seven below and in the Twin Cities, it's mostly sunny and three below zero and Gary. That's the latest news. (00:29:21) Thanks Patty 25 minutes before noon. This is midday on Minnesota public. Radio in this hour. We're talking about hunger in Minnesota literally hundreds of thousands of people are either going hungry or in danger of going hungry in the state of Minnesota. And we thought today would be a good day to try to find out more about this problem why it's occurring and what might be done about it joining us Bonnie Becker director of the adult support division of the State Department of Human Services. That's the agency that oversees the food stamp program in Minnesota. Richard Gable is with us executive director of The Second Harvest st. Paul food bank and George Latimer is here former. Mayor st. Paul he was mayor back in the days when the food shelves were set up the idea being. Well, let's say I have a little temporary help for some folks during tough Economic Times and then everything will be okey doke again. That was a long time ago. Let's go back to the phones Glenn out your question, please (00:30:19) thanks for taking my call. I actually I have a couple of comments one is that As was mentioned earlier, I think the linkage between the absence of affordable housing and the hunger crisis is enormous that until we solve our housing problem. There's very little hope for solving the hunger problem. My second point is that I think that there is an accessibility issue regarding getting the food stamps and getting help from the Food Shelf. I volunteer at the Joyce food shelf and the food shelf only stays open one evening a week because it is staffed by volunteers. I don't know if other food shelves have evening hours or not, but one evening a week is pretty tough. If you're working poor and have transportation issues as well in terms of claiming your benefits and it may be an issue for getting food stamps. As well and I'll listen off the air. Thanks. (00:31:27) All right. Thanks. Thanks for your call. Let's take those in reverse order. First of all, Richard Gable is is the accessibility issue a widespread problem people, even if they know that there are there's food help available. They can't get to it. I think one has to honestly admit that is an issue because we look Statewide as you get into greater Minnesota. Most of those food shelves are volunteers and they can only be open certain hours and they have to accommodate the individuals who are coming in for help. We are seeing more and more the reality that food shelves recognize that we're dealing with a Working Poor clientele. And therefore we have to accommodate their hours. I mean, we have a program at the food bank for mothers and children where there are moms who are working in so forth. So we stay open later on Tuesdays and Thursday nights to accommodate them. And if we see that demand building, we will move to other evenings. I think that's The initiative at the food shelves are our system needs to begin to address not only accessibility in terms of the physical side of it but accessibility in terms of hours and and having the openness and acceptance but it still is primarily a voluntary system. And so it's not that somebody can mandate you will be open to doubts and such but you got to be sure you can cover those hours. And so that's some reality that we have to deal with Bonnie Becker. Is there an effort underway to increase your outreach program for the food stamp program? (00:32:59) Yes, there is I wanted to note that our office here in St. Paul oversees the food stamp program, but when someone would wish to apply for food stamps, they would be doing it at a local County Human Service Agency some of the things that the counties are doing. To overcome the barriers that exist in obtaining food stamps are providing help with the application process to those individuals that need it if language is a barrier providing interpreting services so that people can make themselves understood providing information on the requirements of the program. Sometimes transportation is a barrier and some counties are providing that kind of help and certainly as with the food shelves more accessible office hours are important in reaching some individuals. (00:34:10) Do they sign up people right at the food shelves? I would think that would be a an efficient way to make sure that people who need food get the food (00:34:20) stamps. Yes, there are applications for Stamps available at the food shelves and with the application our telephone numbers for people to call in getting help in filling out the applications (00:34:40) George Latimer. Let me ask you about this housing link and Lord knows we've heard a lot about that. But of course this problem existed before we had a real crisis here with affordable housing problem. (00:34:52) Correct both the previous caller whose name I think with Glenda and Dick have mentioned this at Macalester year ago my students with a lot of help from Metro Council and a few churches examined the numbers we have about seventy thousand households in the Twin Cities who are either paying more than 50% more than 50% of their income for rent or the living in Terror be substandard housing and if you Get the supply and demand and the economics of housing that should not surprise us during the years of the booming 90s. Our vacancy rates have gone from 9% to what they are now 1% the rents supply and demand have gone straight up it almost through the roof. So what could cost a family of four three hundred and fifty dollars in 1990 is going to cost him seven to eight hundred dollars now now that for a low income person and these are all working folks. This means once you the woman who called Linda was right, once you pay 50 percent of your income after taxes to pay for your shelter, then you got to take care of daycare. You got to take care of transportation to the job. You got to take care of everything else and what's left is what we call the luxury of (00:36:16) food. But but my point is that isn't in there something else at work here because prior to the last oh, I'll Let's pick a figure 10 years ago housing was not we didn't have a surplus of housing but you didn't hear much about an affordable housing crisis and yet there were all these hungry people now. We have a housing crisis. We still have the hungry people. Obviously are they that that directly linked in my mind they would be because if you go back to the whole issue of hunger, it's always interesting to me that already in the late 70s and early 80's. We always connected them hunger and homelessness. Yeah, and maybe at that point we were beginning to just see the tip of the iceberg in terms of the homeless being more than the traditional stereotype male middle-aged chemically dependent type of situation. And so that there was a real issue that occurred. It's also interesting to low that if you look at what the federal cuts that came in it is in the start of the 80s where the subsidized housing literally went down the drain. I mean, I was fortunate enough to be a part of a project in Maplewood for for the elderly and handicapped 202 project. We were the last one that had any kind of what I would call amenities to it. And after that the process got more difficult there were less and less units available. And so there is a parallel there what has happened is we have the housing issue has really caught up with us and technically if we don't do something soon and very radical, I mean I'm involved in a task force for the county we're looking at what's going to happen in 2000 in July when the five-year clock has run out we're talking about 4,000 families projected to still be involved with them are 12,000 kids. It'll only be a matter of a couple months and they will be without shelter know what are we going to do start building barracks in order to give them shelter? I mean to me I really I'm a food person because that's where my advocacy is, but the reality is I have to push as hard as I can on the housing issue because if we don't address that the other will just continue to happen and it'll just grow and we're going to get to the point of where are they going to prepare the food that were able to give them? Yeah, let me let me put it this way turn it around a little bit then if tomorrow you could wave a wand and there would be enough housing decent housing available for everybody would we then have solved the hunger problem at the same time? We would have decimated it. Because that's the choices that people are making seniors are making the choice between food and prescriptions and their housing families are making the choices the same way, but they know I mean, I've been a you know, kind of chewed out sometimes that I've been a part of a process that's created a secondary system and the suggestion being if I didn't do what I did, you know, we'd have a revolution and therefore the problem would have been solved. Well, I'm sorry, that's not my nature we have to address but the reality is it is much easier for me to go out to General Mills and get a semi load of product and distribute that than it is to go somewhere and say okay now we have an apartment available. You know, what's drying up is even if you have a Section 8 certificate these days it doesn't guarantee you that a landlord will accept you because his Market is so wild he may not want to quote deal with those people who are low income or coming off of (00:39:50) welfare. What what dick I said Gary connect back up with what I was talking about earlier. The word is decimated the numbers not remove them. And the reason it wouldn't remove them is that you and I and everyone with eyes knows that there are people who are wounded in our society, but they're so small in number compared to the hundreds of thousands of hungry hard-working people that if we met with any kind of adequacy the need of the people who could be self-sufficient with a decent housing and decent income, then we could focus on the relatively small number of wounded people for whom money or food stamps or direct gift of food is not going to solve either the hunger problem or anything else so that that's what I was pleading for earlier. And I think the the second point I want to make is this Governor. I don't know how much credit he's getting for this but he's at least setting the Mission is fourth on the idea of knocking down the silos that separate the various Delivery Systems. So right now we have people who know everything about food stamps, but they really don't know they couldn't tell you they're not expected to tell you about the medical care of the individual family that they're providing the food for thirdly. They don't know anything about the education and McAllister. We studied the mobility and 70% of the kids in the inner city school are not in the same school at the end of the year as they were in the beginning so means that drives education. We need to knock down the silos especially for the really troubled people bring the services into one place into housing housing as a central stabilizing force of their life and then a single point way of dealing with those other human problems and I think we can do it. I think it's within reach it surely is within our resources (00:41:52) back to the phones and Question, please. (00:41:54) Yes, thanks. I'm very concerned that your skirting what to me is obviously the underlying issue which is the idea of a livable wage. And how can we have so many hard-working people who are at the same time hungry. I think one of your guests cited the statistic that 40% of the people who go to food shelves are working. So what we need to really look at our society and why are we set up like this and how can we change the basic structure of the lower income strata of people? (00:42:29) I'll do it for her - George (00:42:31) I may I don't know whether the last time I went into a tirade was before the lady turned on the radio, but I agree with her. However, this is where I do differ from some of the old line liberals and it is this I don't think we get very far telling an individual employer how much they ought to pay the individual employee and remain competitive in the market without going out of business. I think that's not a winning strategy. I certainly believe there has to be a minimum wage and we ought to raise it. However, where where we really ought to focus is ways of not intervening in the individual economy between employer and employee but having earned income tax credit is one example a direct cash payment. That was a republican idea created a Nixon Administration by Pat Moynihan when he worked for him. That's how ancient that is. It was later passed for First time under President Ford, it was expanded under President Clinton, but then has been contracted little bit more. But in any event, I totally agree with this person half of the jobs. We're going to generate we think we're going to create three hundred thousand jobs in the metro area from now on to 2010. I think or maybe 2015 we know that half of those jobs will pay about eight or nine dollars an hour a tour. There are going to be a lot of eight or nine dollar an hour jobs, but there aren't any eight or nine dollar an hour rental places. So we've got to make that match either by subsidizing housing or by giving decent cash support for hardworking people who are poor. (00:44:12) That's exactly that's one of the that's the third recommendation of the tough study is that we get at those kinds of vouchers those kinds of resources that doesn't disturb the economic relationships, but through governmental and through private initiatives. We can support people And raise their capacity so that they can have good housing and have access to Medical Care and also have access to food and I think there are very creative ways. We can do this. Our problem is we're you know, we're on the edges of it and nobody really has boldly said this is the way we're going to resolve this problem. It is a distribution of wealth issue and that makes many people very nervous right off the bat. I mean I made the statement at the last legislator at a hearing legislation at a hearing and I made the references and I felt very strongly that food was a right and one of our Representatives accused me of being a communist and you know that I put a smile on everybody's face, but I think we're ducking the real hard issues of what are ways that we can in a sense really raise the boat in terms of the economics of making sure that the lowest of our individuals have the opportunity to have access to what we all otherwise take for granted is Class and upper class short of that. We do have programs in existence already back to the food stamp program Bonnie Becker. Is there any hope that the people who are actually eligible for the food stamps? All of them will start getting their food stamps. Is there anything as a practical matter you can do to to make to get the food stamps in their hands. (00:45:49) I spoke earlier about some of the actions that counties are taking to remove the barriers that stand in the way of persons getting food stamps. I do have some good news in that Minnesota just recently received four and a half million dollars in federal bonus money for the food stamp program for accuracy in managing that program about 75 percent of that money will be sent down to the County's so that they're able to Through their efforts in the food stamp program and we at state level plan to look at what we spoke earlier of the numbers going down drastically of persons on food stamps. What is the reason for this drop in numbers? And what can we do to assist people who are eligible for the food stamp program receive those benefits. So that is where our Focus will be in the upcoming (00:47:05) year. Okay, Richard Gale not a lot of time left, but I of course. I'm sure some people are listening to say well gee I want to help you have another food drive coming up. I assume shortly. Obviously, they're all kinds of food drives coming. But the major one that will be coming up is the March food drive by Minnesota food share, which is also got its roots in the Is and has been around and has been a tremendous way to focus on the need for people to donate cash and food the cash and food is one better be underscored cash is much better. It gives you more options and reality is that we get the food we got to be able to distribute it. It's a distribution issue in our part George Latimer 15 seconds to the politicians have the will to come to grips with this problem in your (00:47:52) mind. Yeah. I think the politicians will have the courage to act as soon as enough people tell them that they really do understand these issues and they support a more Humane policy. I think the politicians would we will (00:48:06) respond. Thanks so much for joining us all three of you appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you Richard Gable executive director of The Second Harvest st. Paul Food Bank former st. Paul Mayor George Latimer and Bonnie Becker director of the adult Support Division State Department of Human Services. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio. (00:48:26) If you don't have a ticket to this weekend's live broadcast of A Prairie Home Companion. Don't worry beginning at 4:15 tomorrow afternoon. All of the on stage seating in the front row seats are sold in a $10 Rush ticket line just show up at the Fitzgerald Theater box office in downtown st. Paul before 415 get in line bring a friend and then sit back and enjoy the show all $10. Rush seats are cash only and its first come first serve. So you might want to get there early. Don't miss it (00:48:53) five minutes now before 12 o'clock and it's time for the writers Almanac.