(00:00:10) Good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us University Minnesota men's basketball team plays Gonzaga University this afternoon out in Seattle in the first round of the NCAA National Basketball Tournament the first step if all went well toward winning the national championship, but the game has been overshadowed by allegations published in the st. Paul Pioneer Press this week that at least 20 University players including four members of this year's team have received improper help with their academic coursework smarting the university announced at the four players on this year's team will be declared ineligible pending the results of an investigation. They will not be allowed to play in this afternoon's game. First our midday, we're going to take a closer. Look at the University's decision. Some of the University officials had to say will also have a report from the Board of Regents meeting underway at the University and will be focusing on several other aspects of this story as well joining us this hour Minnesota public radio sports commentators Howard Sinker and Jay wiener. We'll be talking with them in a few minutes. But first of all, Minnesota public radio's William Wilcox and joins us so William was at this morning's news conference at the University morning with him. Yeah, Gary as you mentioned the the for current members of the team for whom this former University staff member Jag angle Hoff allegedly wrote to term papers and other assignments. Those four players will not play this afternoon McKinley Boston, who is the University's vice president for student development and Athletics explain this morning that he had discussed the situation with basketball coach Clem Haskins last night. Here's what mr. Boston said advise him. And he agreed that at the allegations are found to be true the risk to the program the universe. It is reputation reputation of the players would certainly be significant coach Hodgson has agreed and believe that the decision that we have made is in the best interest of the university. And Boston said the university has not been able to confirm allegations raised by ganga Hoff in the newspaper article that in eligibility of these players is sort of more not so much an indictment of the players as a precautionary kind of move based upon the prime official evidence that was in the paper at this time. There's enough conflicting evidence, but certainly serious allegations that will have led us to believe that we would rather not risk the represent the reputation of the University by playing an ineligible player at this time University president, Mark yudof was also on hand and he talked about how difficult it is for the University to make a decision. Vision of this magnitude about the players eligibility so quickly that newspaper story was printed on Wednesday morning. And of course the game is this afternoon which didn't give the university very much time to consider this whole situation particularly since jangle Hoff has so far declined to speak with the university and you'd also mention that the Pioneer Press is not turned over all of the documentation that the university has sought look at the circumstances. I'm only month investigation. We have 48 hours that we were provided with the courtesy of early warning and we appreciate that the primary witnesses will not talk to us the newspaper will not turn over the papers. We have no reason to suspect that what they say is untrue, but we still haven't had the opportunity to do it and we've got the reputation of these four players and Clem Haskins and assistant coaches. So I mean, I think our position is very clear. We take this a serious. This is important and we can imagine fairly Draconian sanctions coming out if it turns out to to be true, but you know, as I said yesterday there's a First Amendment freedom of the press is also a Fourteenth Amendment. (00:03:54) To due process of law (00:03:56) and we're going to abide that we're not going to try them before we have our facts and we will go to an outside Source respected source to gather those facts for us. We'll get a report to the president directly to me. I will report to the board with recommendations and we will have however the chips fall that's how we will play this. So in the near term as you mentioned will be playing Gonzaga University this afternoon, they'll be without Kevin Clarke who is the second leading scorer on the team and without miles Tarver was their leading rebounder and they will also be missing Antoine Brock see and Jason Stanford who are reserves on the team and for the time being there are no plans to seek the reinstatement of those players. All right. Thank you William William wilcoxen who is at the University of Minnesota, press conference this morning. Now, the University of Minnesota Board of Regents has been meeting this morning. We should note that this was a regularly scheduled meeting not something special call to discuss this particular situation, but apparently it came up this morning. Tim pug Meyer is with us. Now and Tim, what did the regions have to say about this controversy? (00:04:58) Well chairman William Hogan is doing most of the talking. The other Regents are preferring to let him be their spokesperson on this matter. And as you said it is a regular meeting today and tomorrow but a major distraction today with this news conference taking place in the very meeting room that that they usually discuss what you different issues regarding the university. In fact early this morning to the meeting began before the news conference with house Speaker Steve Swig Aman hand he was there to swear in the two new Regents and the to reappointed Regions and as Wiggum referred to the controversy during his brief remarks. He said that he has the confidence in each and every member of the Board of Regents and said that the front pages often give us challenges and he wished those headlines would also reflect some of the Work done by the university and Regent William Hogan later at a very similar theme. He called this controversy a temporary obstruction on the University's successful path. And he says the the total system is doing well and it will not in his his mind negatively a reflect on the institution as a whole. Did they have anything to say at all about (00:06:20) the decision to declare these players in elgible comment directly on that at all? (00:06:27) No chairman Hogan said that he has faith in University president yudof, and the administration to make the right decisions regarding this matter and the investigation and left it at (00:06:42) that. Okay. Now you also talked to some students over at (00:06:45) the you I did Gary and very unscientific survey sampling of those I was able to run into Out on the mall and also at Coffman Union but students are generally unsympathetic for the plight of these for current players that are caught up in the academic fraud allegations. And those who are basketball fans among the students. I talked to are disappointed by the timing of the events, but I think one of the key factors here Gary is that finals begin next week here at the University of Minnesota and students are knee-deep into studying. They've just completed some major papers for for many of their courses and to be reminded of some of the advantages student athletes to get R in regard to to academics as kind of hit a sour note with many students. They are unsympathetic and say if they have indeed cheated as the allegations claim then they should pay the price. All right. Thanks to appreciate it. You bet (00:07:51) Minnesota Public Radio reporter Tim pug Meyer, who is Ben Covering the University Minnesota Board of Regents meeting underway at the University of Minnesota joining us now are sports analysts Howard Sinker and J Weiner and we invite you to join our conversation as well. We are talking this our about these allegations involving the University of Minnesota basketball program the academic counseling program at the University. And if you'd like to join our conversation 6512276 thousand that's our Twin City area number six, five one two, two seven six thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach us toll-free at 1-800-222-8477 6,000 or 1-800 to for to to 828 Howard J. Thanks for joining us this morning. Thanks for inviting me. (00:08:45) Thank you for having us. Now. You you fellas are both veteran (00:08:48) journalists are both the intimately familiar. With the University of Minnesota all that operates a big-time athletic programs without prejudging this does do these charges have the ring of Truth to you fellows Howard. I'll start the answer is yes, there's so much stuff that was in that story. It was so well done. And the fact that the the Pioneer Press has posted on its website actually some of the term papers that were written and the copies that they have most of them by the way, we're not written very well. I read it. I read what on the last night suggest that you know, the stuff is there. I also think that it it it built on a reputation of clam Haskins of someone who had been consistently since 1986 know trying to get marginal players in to compete pointing to other schools in the Big Ten Or schools that he knew when he was at Western Kentucky who were able to get kids in and keep them. And an ongoing tension between him and Elaine Donahue who was the chief academic advisor. So the answer is yes. It rings totally true. What's your opinion? Our (00:10:03) the the documentation of the Pioneer Press had was stunning. I mean being able to post copies of the newspaper on the Internet or the copies of the the papers that were turned in on the Internet is just incredible and clearly there was enough evidence that Mark yudof in the clink Kinley Boston could get just from the newspaper that they had access to that. I think it was not a difficult decision for them to sit down the four players and I think they're really worried about extreme sanctions from the NCAA. This doesn't only speak to the Integrity of the athletic department. It speaks to academic Integrity throughout the entire University and I think that's very troubling to everyone at the school (00:10:48) now Howard we've heard that but why would that be the case? Why couldn't this be viewed if True why couldn't this be viewed as an aberration basically (00:10:59) because I think if you were to ask students, have you ever cheated on an exam? Have you ever had an ethical help in creating a term paper or research project cheating? Why wouldn't want to say it's rampant. I think it's commonplace. It's like jug drug use everyone knows it takes place and this is such a high-profile example that I think that it would force the university to really investigate itself and really analyze itself not only in the beermen building but (00:11:32) everywhere, you know, if today's news conference if we can advance the story a bit the president I thought gave a carefully worded statement and one that's suggest as Howard says that if it doesn't go beyond this whole issue of academic integrity, 30 in every classroom clearly the notion of academic Integrity within Athletics is going to be examined relative to coach Haskins and vice president Boston that is in the clip. You just had you'd office saying there will be Draconian measures. If this is true, he said it will stop at know where to find out what what happened they'll they're going to an outside investigator, which is standard in which they had in 1986 in a in a scandal as well. But showing that I think that it will reach up to the Mac Boston level and if it does then it does reach the second emic Integrity because Boston is technically out of the athletic department now and as part of the administration, so and Mac Boston is a well-known vice president brother the only vice president who's known so I think that it besmirches the whole campus to a certain extent and not just Athletics. This does involve individuals and I'm wondering here if it turns out when when all the dust settles that these Charges are essentially not true at least the charges involving the four players on the team right now or if they're somehow involved in this but only tangentially and kind of a minor infraction. This seems to be grossly unfair to these to these guys, especially the seniors who have worked so hard to make it to the tournament. This is the kind of the Capstone of their career and to be and I understand the university had the opportunity to ask the NCAA. Once the university said, well, we've reported them and we're going to suspend them but let them play. Anyway pending the final outcome of this investigation. Why didn't the university do (00:13:36) that to me Gary? That's the weight of the evidence of the University of seeing within 48 hours. They're seeing this is a very dangerous explosive situation, and they couldn't afford to risk the sanctions by asking the NCAA just to let these fellows back in. I teach a college class at Macalester College St. Paul and anyone who has anything to do with academics knows the difference between tutoring and sitting down and doing someone's work for them. It's not a gray area. It's really not a gray area at all and to turn it into one is anywhere from a disservice to disingenuous depending on who's doing the talking? (00:14:18) Okay. Now cynics will say what's the big surprise here? What's the big surprise? Why is everybody so shocked at this doesn't this go on all the time with big-time college athletic programs? Why should we get all stirred up about this particular incident? Why not just shut the whole thing down. Well my first reaction to that is that you know, cynics always say that stuff it's still wrong and I think that as we talk about this over the next 24 hours and 48 hours. We need to really reframe the discussion away from the point that you're making aren't for kids. Treated unfairly into what are the predominant issues here that that drive college sports and if the cynics are accepting the fact that some kids have their term Papers written poorly by an assistant in the academic advising office. Then college sports is is a fraud and we should redefine the way the college sports takes place. We should have leagues where the kids don't go to school. We should have leagues where the coaches pay academic advisors to do the papers. And that would be called the fraud league and then we'd have the real League the NCAA division one where kids who are skilled will go to class and then we'll have you know, the McCallister's where average people play sports. So I say to the cynics. Yes in Michael one everywhere, but why should it go on here? But and to add to the cynics though, I think there was one point that the president yudof made today. That's And dimensions that one of the reasons not the key reason but one of the reasons that these four players are not playing today is if they do play and if these allegations are found to be true, Minnesota would lose a substantial amount of money for having been in the NCAA tournament because their players will be ruled ineligible post fact, therefore there's probably a number of hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake as well by having these kids sit out the game getting the money that they will get from the NCAA tournament and being able to use that presumably to pay for an investigation that's bound to cause between 500,000 and a million dollars out think Howard. What about the cynicism argument that goes on anyway, so what's the big deal? (00:16:37) I think that if we start accepting that argument rather than doing something about what's wrong we've weirdest serving the the kids who do it, right? we're talking about four members of a roster of we're talking about four players on a team who clearly knew what they were doing when they weren't doing their own work you start if you want to change a culture you start with the highest profile people and if you're going to examine cheating at the University of Minnesota or academic fraud you you've used the people who are who everyone knows, To be doing something wrong if that's the case and you make an example out of them and say this will not be tolerated by you because we didn't tolerate it from the people who represent this University very (00:17:25) publicly. I think those one one thing to add is that we do need to examine the system though as well. So we're looking at this micro event, but from a macro point of view, there are these other issues should College athletes be paid should they have to go to school in just four years. Should they be able to compete as freshmen? Should they get certain SAT scores can a university in a large? Urban Market a compete with pro sports teams? What are the pressures on coaches the wind look at Doug Wooga hockey coach who is getting trashed in the Press because his team isn't winning. What kind of pressures is that put him under to get junior hockey players who are playing in Moose Jaw somewhere who need Jane who are in search of jangle have right now to come in and win some games. These are all the kinds of things that go on. It's time-honored. It's been going on since 1929 the Carnegie Commission report that said college sports was screwed up, then would probably be just as current today. And those are issues that we continue to continually need to return to to reframe where we're headed in college sports. Let's get some listeners involved here as well. We're talking with sports commentators J Weiner and Howard Sinker talking about the University of Minnesota Story the charges that well at least 20 University of Minnesota basketball players had been receiving improper help with their academic work including four players on this year's team who have now been declared ineligible for today's NCAA Tournament game Joe. Go ahead (00:18:57) Place. Hi, good morning morning because it was only about a week ago where the NCAA lost that federal court case where they were saying that College athletics or students who want to be in Legend in athletics how to get a bare minimum score on the SAT, I believe it was 800 and something and McKinley Boston. He issued a statement saying that he supported the federal court decision saying that you can't have those bare minimum standards because it has a discriminatory impact and then all of a sudden a week later, we have the situation at the University where these kids obviously can't cut academically and I sort of feel sorry for these athletes because they're they're putting a situation where they can't do the work academically yet when they try to survive by cheating or by getting this extra help then they're penalized. I mean, you know, so you got McKinley boss on the one hand saying the court case was great don't do bare minimum standards and the other on the other hand when these students are just trying to survive in their athletic world. He trashes them our there were standards that existed prior to the court decision the decision that overturned proposition 16 said it Matter essentially what your high school grades were if you could not pull an eight twenty on your sat, you would not be eligible to play and what Boston and others were arguing is that those tests that standardized tests can and do have a cultural bias that work against kids of color. (00:20:35) I would agree with Joe. I do find the irony in that and and I think that it goes to the issue of exploitation that players are brought in who are not College material perhaps and then who are expected to succeed at least to keep on keeping on so that they can play creating pressures on them and their coaches in the academic advisors to keep them on the on on the field II do believe and I have felt this for a while though. I've gone back and forth that not playing as a freshman which is something that went on in Bill Bradley's day and clearly he could have played as a freshman might be one way to address this issue of who's ready and who is not But the the issue of proposition 16 and basic standardized test capabilities raises the other explosive issue that's always attached to these scandals, which is the race issue fortunately or unfortunately, in this case, at least some of the older former players are black and white all the four players now on the team who are not playing are black and at that will raise the red flag of SAT scores and particularly exploitation college sports and what who can compete in the classroom as well as on the field (00:21:48) JB other thing that needs to be considered is academic support and scholarship money on the other end. It's really unrealistic to expect most college students who are balancing jobs. And what is essentially full-time Athletics and other commitments to to be done with their education in five years and providing providing not only scholarship funding but academic support beyond that perhaps 464 Here I think is one of those signals in addition to maybe perhaps having freshman being eligible that would show. Yeah, we're not only just paying lip service to academic progress. But here are some tangible things that cost money that we will do to give people a better chance of (00:22:31) success, you know Howard after the Mitch Lee controversy of 86 so called mutually controversy. They did add the fifth year and I'm pretty sure at the University of Minnesota the they do guarantee a student athlete his or her fifth year, but you raise one other point about support and this is at the core of the Scandal is that the academic advising office lost control of the academics of these players. It was moved into Clem Haskins office according to the Pioneer Press with the permission and the sanctioning of McKinley Boston when he was the ad there for the the the partitioning of basketball way from the rest of the program allowed for as a I said earlier, you know the fox to be in the hen house for the coach to be in control of academic advising and in the Mitchell guy George Williams Kevin Smith case The Smoking Gun there as much as the rape was an awful thing though. They were found not guilty were letters from the academic advisors to Jim Dutcher than the coach saying these guys are out of control. They can't be in this program. They're not performing off the court and Dutcher ignored those letters in the same way that it seems to the Pioneer Press stories that Elaine Donahue has letters were going unheard. So academic advising is the one that shouldn't be blamed here at all. I think that they've been trying to do their job here and across the country. We're talking with sports commentators Howard Sinker and Jay weiner about the University of Minnesota story. And again, if you just tuned in and have missed the morning's news the four players on this year's team who've been implicated in this charge of receiving improper academic assistance. They have been declared ineligible for today's NCAA Tournament game the university says a full-scale external investigation will be launched into these charges. We're going to continue our conversation in a few minutes. Let me give you the phone number. If you'd like to join us six five one two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight as I say, we'll continue in a few minutes. We're going to hear from Clem Haskins in a couple of minutes. But let's take a break here. Does your bottom line? Look as good as it should the economy is healthy and the stock market is strong. But what does it all mean for your own personal finances and all this is Bob Potter inviting you to join me for sound money this week when Chris Farrell and Erica whittling your take your calls about things that affect your portfolio and your checkbook sound money Saturday morning at ten again Sunday afternoon at 5:00 on Minnesota Public Radio. Km W FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. By the way, the second hour of our midday program today, we're going to shift gears fairly significantly moving from the world of big-time College athletics to the stage of big-time theater will be hearing from Sir Peter Hall. Who was the creator of the royal Shakespeare company right now some news headlines. Here's Greta Cunningham. Good morning. Kerry President Clinton is saying he wants the United States to be viewed as a partner and a friend to the people of Central America. The president is meeting with Central American leaders today in a summit in Guatemala. The house has overwhelmingly passed a bill that aims to improve education by giving States more flexibility in spending federal dollars. The Ed Flex bill would expand to all 50 states a pilot program that allows a dozen states to cut red tape attached to education spending programs. A similar bill has been bogged down in the Senate Democrats are demanding that they be allowed to amend the bill to include new spending on hiring new teachers and reducing class size Pope John. Paul has welcomed Iran's president to the In the two met for about 25 minutes today the talks could lay ground for better relations between Christians and Muslims afterward John Paul called it an important and promising day there had been talk of a possible visit by John Paul deuteron by the Vatican says that was not discussed in Regional news as you've been listening to on. Midday. The University of Minnesota has declared for men's basketball players ineligible for today's NCAA Tournament game University officials say there is evidence to support allegations of academic fraud made by a former School employee the four players Kevin Clarke Jason Stanford Antoine proxy and Miles Tarver are accused of committing academic fraud by having a tutor right papers and take tests for them former University employee. Jan ganga have told the st. Paul Pioneer Press the four were among at least 20 men's basketball players. She had done course work for the university is planning to hire an outside investigator to investigate the allegations the forecast for Minnesota today calls for mostly sunny skies Statewide with high temperatures in the 30s tonight. To partly cloudy skies with lows from the single digits in the North to the teens in the South. It will be cloudy on Friday with highs in the 30s right now Rochester reports sunshine and twenty. It's clouding Duluth and 28 and in the Twin Cities Sunshine a temperature of 29 Gary. That's a look at the latest news. Thank you Greta. It is now 26 minutes before twelve o'clock. We're talking this our about the University of Minnesota academic fraud story The University announcing this morning that it will launch a full-scale investigation into charges that many members of the University of Minnesota men's basketball team received inappropriate help and their academic work and four players on this year's team have been declared ineligible for today's tournament game course caught right in the middle of these allegations. And in the middle of this story is University Minnesota men's basketball coach Clem Haskins who has been in recent years praised widely for running a model University. big-time College basketball program last December University Minnesota basketball coach Clem Haskins was on our midday program talking about the role of Athletics at the University and a coach's responsibility to balance the academic and athletic careers of his players Haskin set at that time. Last December at Athletics are important to a university because of the attention that they attract there's no way that any University if you want to be recognized and have the greatest English Department math department science department is which is all about education. We know that but you know, you're not gonna get recognized for that. But you win a National Championship you went to National Champion football and basketball. If you go to the final four right away people know about Minnesota, you can have the greatest doctors in the world here come out at University the greatest lawyer in the world. There'll be great lawyers, but they only be in Minnesota, but when a few basketball games are getting the file for National TV now, you know, not only Minnesota all over the country makes Athletics big-time business big money makers. And yes, I'm all about graduating young people. I'm always getting a quality education, but we got to understand for me to keep my job to be able to see that these young people get qualification. I have to win and you know in to win a lot of time will save your job. Now, you got not only win but you got to make money. We have got to turn a profit and basketball to not only support basketball but help support the women's sport the whole athletic department in the last few years like last year. We made over six million dollars and basketball with a highest revenue producing basketball program in the Big Ten and you know, and we have the highest ticket in the big tent so now to say here so I didn't say that people love me in Minnesota to degree long as I win. I understand that, you know, that's that's false. You know, I know understand my true friends it's all about winning is unfortunate about winning and it's not only about winning at our level. It's about making a profit. If I don't make profit they're going to fire me get someone else same thing in football. I've been through three football coach at Minnesota. Those are great guys that walk A great guy good as the great guys, but they didn't win enough. That's why not head coaches here and same thing with claim housing someday. If I don't win enough, they'll replace me. It doesn't matter how many guys I graduate and that is the sad part and in kind of the upsetting part of College athletics take because you can be a great guy and do a tremendous job and Community the one do a better job and community in my program. We try to do everything go to hospitals we go to nursing home we go out to Junior High School we speak they're all those things are tremendous. They're great for our community and I love doing it. But you know what when I don't put enough W on the board, they'll probably just like the good Agent Walker it be someone that's coaching basketball should more young people who are really good basketball players, but perhaps not all that interested in academics. Should there be some kind of a program for them to just to go play minor league basketball for a while and learn their skills. I don't agree with that. I hope it never happened. I think today that we really talk. Education, we don't get the credit we deserve because what happened to you in graduation, for example, they took a five-year survey if those guys graduate in light and six years seven years. You don't get credit for that. Like I ratio would be around 80 percent if he could go go back and pick up all the guys at graduated what happened to guys to come out of college like my players, for example when she lost her graduating when a quarter so he wouldn't have a chance to go to Spring quarter. But if you stay in school this spring for example that the pro camps for the real good players, they had three weeks there go to three different camps and you can't afford to miss three weeks of classes. So I have my guys to drop out and spray because I don't want to thank those classes they always have a chance to come back and graduate but you don't always have a chance to be an NBA player. You only have a short window there from age of 20 basically up to 26 27. If you don't get there by that time chances are you won't make it you have your life to come by and get a degree. So that's what we encourage. Our players are due. For example the Jason Often the Richer coffee the Melvin Newbern the Bob Martin all those guys did not graduate in there for years. We got no credit those guys graduating but they all have a degree today and to me my job as a coach is to make sure my players stay on target to get a degree and that's what we myself. I feel good about that. He may not graduate in four years, but are they in a position within a year eight quarter semester graduate and all I players like the Willy burden still trying to play pro basketball only 18 hours of graduate. He can do that really one quarter at least into quarters. So less than a year. He can finish college and basically all I players don't graduate in four years has a chance to finish and 1/4 a one-semester now when they see going to semesters a less than a year's time and that's to me what a coach is all about. So I'm just proud of my guys like a ray Gaffney is a Kim's workers the chicken Janice cause you never hear about those guys. I'm making a good living working honeywell's Procter & Gamble Etc around the country and making a decent living my job as a coach. Not only Put gas in be a but be successful in our society and our community. We have a lot of God in verse assessment community. That was University of Minnesota basketball coach Clem Haskins on her midday program last December and we should emphasize again. That was really long before any of these allegations surfaced but Howard J has some interesting thoughts in light of the allegations that have surfaced snow (00:33:35) Yeah. I was making a list of schools like Harvard and Yale and Carlton and Princeton and Oberland that are pretty well-known despite having a relative lack of academic or lack of athletic success and I was thinking, you know, when I was listening to his words, even the not not you know, all of the traditionally African-American schools are known because of wonderful Sports programs to say that Athletics is is the engine that always drives the University's recognition is a wonderful argument if you're trying to justify your position in In the University's food chain, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the case. (00:34:17) Is there any chance that assuming these charges are true? Is there any chance that claim Haskins didn't know that this stuff was going on. I would find it hard to believe is just because he created again that partitioning now it's assistant coaches have traditionally been bagman and and people who create the the you know, that demilitarized zone between what's going on with players and others and and the head coach without all of the evidence before me I can't say for sure but I would find it hard to believe. How about you (00:34:55) Howard and the abstract if you create an environment in which this is possible you have some responsibility. I'm wondering about just like Athletics or just like the athletic counseling office seems to be partitioned from the men's basketball program here. I'm wondering about the role of athletic director Mark Dean art so much of what's going on seems to be between climb Haskins and McKinley Boston. And what was the athletic director's role in this was he told like Elaine Donahue was told hey, don't worry about this. This is between Clem and Mac. Is that something that you're thinking about you? (00:35:31) Yeah, I think the dean hard it has been put in an awful position to the extent that Boston is the Supra athletic department director there at the University rewarded with that job because he had supposedly some other offers at other colleges and once Boston was promoted to that spot Dean heart became basically an assistant athletic director with the title of of ad I saw him today at the news conference. He seems to be a man in the middle but clearly Howard Clem Haskins has got his own deal with Mac Boston separate from Mark Dean harder. That's the way it seems and so yes when this outside investigation comes in people are going to wonder about marketing Hearts rate. We have a number of callers have been waiting patiently patiently here and let's get some comments from them. We're talking at this hour with our sports commentators Howard Sinker and Jay weiner about the University of Minnesota academic Scandal if you will the Asians that many athletes on the University of Minnesota men's basketball team have been receiving improper help with their coursework Beth here come in place. (00:36:38) Yeah. I was kind to comment on the man who had suggested that we should feel sorry for these athletes. I mean, they need to take responsibility for their actions. They knew this was wrong cheating on the reports. I mean come on, they're being paid to go to school and it's like mocking the rest of us who are students here who are struggling to make it I work full time and I go to school full-time. I'm at the school from 7:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night and then I do it all during the week and these kids are having other people write their papers and cheating and we're supposed to feel sorry for them because they're having school handed to them on a platter and then mocking Us by not taking it seriously. (00:37:21) Nice bath Howard J. Any thoughts. Well, I appreciate her her comments. I and whether we should feel sorry or not is more of a question of what is the culture that a high school star athlete particularly a boy grows up in and it is a culture that claim Haskins just talked about that says your team will be the representative of the soldiers for our school and whether we've got the greatest physics student in the world, she won't be known Statewide. But if we win the state boys hockey tournament the school will be well-known. You are elevated to be a star by the time you're 16, then you arrive on a campus with a coach who believes that his team. Will Elevate his college to NCAA Heights and you assume that favors are parceled out and so there is the and then you assume you'll be an NBA player which about 1 in 40 zillion are going to become so we shouldn't feel sorry for them. And as Howard pointed out earlier this is cheating and cheating. Shouldn't be tolerated and will be hated by other students. But I think we need to put the the culture that these kids grow up and into a context. Is that make sense (00:38:30) to you Howard? Yeah, what's happening is with young gifted athletes people start telling them at a very early age. Hey, don't worry about it. It will be taken care of for you the culture that gets them expended gets these kids expensive shoes. The culture that says come to the school instead of that school because it's a better basketball program. That's not starting in their freshman year of college that that's going down to Junior High School now and and the kids buy into this notion that they are the stars. They're the engines that the the drive Clem Haskins view of the world and what anybody else thinks doesn't matter what with what the university players are essentially being told by coach Haskins is hey, don't worry leave it to me. I'll take care of it. Don't worry. What? Anyone else thinks I will speak for you. I will represent us you go out and play (00:39:25) ball. If it's any consolation to the caller, I think that president yudof today at the news conference was pretty clear that that's what concerned him. The most is that other students on campus would think this is outrageous. So I think she's got a friend in the president. Well in there was a quote in the paper today, and I'm unfortunately I can't I can't tell you which paper st. Paul Minneapolis paper from David Graham one of the former University players, who was he said here we go again. Now, we're all going to be tarred with the same brush. Like we all cheat and we none of us go to class and none of us do any of this stuff and he he was basically making the argument that this kind of thing ends up ruining the reputation of all the athletes who do the right thing. From his point of view. Yes. But again, I think it gets back to the issue of at the margins the exploitation of certain players who are brought in who can't really cut the mustard and how do coaches in this case keep them in school so that they can use their athletic talents to make money. I mean this NCAA tournament that is actually still on the in the TVs and the MPR News Room generates two billion dollars over the next eight years in TV rights fees that come back to coaches via shoe contracts and fame and fortune. So there is this world out there that is driven by things other than academics re-air comment (00:40:45) place. Yes. Hello. I'm Ray Roybal Chicano activist. Yes. I've been credited with being the first Chicano Mexican American graduate from the University of Minnesota back in 1972. We hadn't had any where people there we've had those since then quite a few coming in quite a few blacks, but let me tell you this. This is not something that is new. We have been receiving the trauma this kind of thing happening to us in the past. I could have somebody there if they can remember. I cannot remember what the name of the person was. But back in the 80s. There was a scandal at the University of Minnesota where somebody was convicted of giving 822 athletes (00:41:25) students. That was the Luther (00:41:27) darvill Luther darvill and I can't help but think that this particular moment that there is a some kind of a tradition going on here. I can't prove that but it does make me think this I agree with Mark yudof. Yeah, there's the First Amendment and then there's the Fourteenth Amendment and we need to think about that with the meantime, we can think anything we want. I think this I think that clam Haskins is completely 100% wrong in his assessment is I heard a little while ago, even if it is all maybe he's changed but nevertheless that assessment is is wrong in the community. We're not Trying to win everything. What we're trying to do is to become equal we want equal education. In fact, I was in the Minnesota daily front page yesterday. And now I'm overridden by the NCAA thing, which is a lot more interesting. I recognize we can get our work done as long as these guys are done. All right what they're doing and I'm saying this to you as a graduate of the University of Minnesota in a very special one that that whoever is guilty here of cheating or helping to cheat these to go to court it needs to go to jail people need to be left alone. As far as their rights are concerned and these people that are doing the wrong should be doing them. What do you think about (00:42:47) that? All right. Thanks to two issues here that come to mind from Ray's comments. Number one are these illegal actions or just violations of NCAA regulations mean let's let's get that clarified. (00:43:00) First of all, there are violations of NCAA rules. If in fact they're true and they're also a violations of University policy. See that should result in expulsion should result in if things can be proven in loss of scholarship money not criminal charges at this point. It wouldn't look like I don't think we're talking about criminal charges, but we're talking about something. That's worse. We're talking about something that that people if this is true and if these charges can be proved in the things are as bad as they seem or maybe even worse Minnesota basketball becomes to University College culture with Nebraska football is (00:43:41) and can we expect the university that's outside investigator. Whoever it is. Can we expect a real thorough investigation naming names pointing fingers or can we expect at least kind of a half-baked cover-up find a Fall Guy? I would expect a full-fledged, you know. Straight Ahead investigation yudof suggested that we have. No this is really his first test as president on anything but really on Sports, you don't give no indication. He was going to pull punches the Luther the excuse me, the Mitch Lee investigation of the 80s that was done by Mike slive who's now a commissioner of one of the big big conferences Park USA cost $600,000 back in 1986 and was thorough or at least he built a lot of hours and that was pretty thorough and the Luther darvill investigation, of course got into the courts. I don't think that it's in you Dolph's yudof has nothing to lose in this thing at all. Really. I mean he was not here when this all happened other than he showed up on the scene and now he's heard about it. I think it will be straight ahead. I think though Gary that Ray does raise a question. I have a question for Howard on this why is there this cycle of Scandal at the University of Minnesota from 70 to honor maybe 76 with Bill muscleman in the Harvey Mackay payments. Through to Mitchell e Luther darvill Courtney James. I mean what's going on? Is it in the water here? What do you think (00:45:15) there always are enough people who will take athletic success? By cutting Corners by doing things not quite according to the books. There is this pervasive culture that if we went look what look at how we celebrated the team that went to the final four two years (00:45:32) ago. Go but do you think that with there are more scandals repeatedly here than other places. Could it be a we're in a Major Market and so there's more competition for the dollar therefore Clem feels more pressure and be the major Market means that there's more journalism going on and every once in a while somebody hits a home run with a well-done Public Service story. That wouldn't happen in Bloomington, Indiana or Columbus (00:45:59) Ohio. I think there's more attention paid to the inner workings of the University. I think there's all the J. One of the things that happens at the university is has a good enough academic reputation that when these things happen, I think that they they rankle the elite academics more than at the second or third rate research institution that has first-rate athletic teams that combined with the fact that that the microscope, you know, is that much sharper because we are in Minneapolis st. Paul and That of Iowa City or instant, you know Columbus or wherever (00:46:38) Claire your comment (00:46:39) Place. Well, who do we think we're kidding? You mean to tell me people didn't know this was going on. It's been going on all over this country for years. It went on when I went to University of North Dakota. Now, this doesn't happen in North Dakota Claire does it it happens (00:46:54) everywhere know the jangle Health worked in North (00:46:56) Dakota? No. No, it does. Who are we kidding? And let's not blame these four kids and let's not blame Clem Haskins. We wanted this we got them all here and we let them do it. And so we're building big stadiums Sports has taken over and it's disgusting. I think we should go back go be like the Canadian system. They don't go with this stuff. That's why they're hockey players have to come to universities in Norfolk in America. They want to get (00:47:23) paid. So essentially set up minor leagues for the (00:47:27) sports and I don't know but let's not kid ourselves. We know this has been going on we ought to be ashamed and we are The University of Minnesota really shouldn't need this, right? It is a good Academic School. Okay. Thank you Claire. It's interesting because players are people like Courtney Jones James made a choice. He was offered a one-year suspension. He was offered the chance to sit out a year and return to the program and now he's playing in the Continental Basketball Association. He's making a small amount of money and playing in third-rate gyms and nobody cares for the most part. This is the minor league basketball system does exist. It's not particularly viable, but it scares anything that would expand that system scares coaches like Clem Haskins because it's very tempting to some of their their athletes students who would rather cut the student out of their profile. (00:48:20) It's gonna at least one more caller on here before right at time Jim. (00:48:23) Yes. Hi. My question is about the philosophical aspects for a minute of what's right and what's wrong and ask more of a kind of a pragmatic question of your guests, which is I'm simply Setec to climb a Haskins issues of you know, having to win and be profitable to retain his job, but I can't help but wonder if he will be at a competitive disadvantage now because as this investigation unfolds is quite likely that they'll find additional players in all sports that will probably or may need to be disqualified from participation. And I wonder if other schools around the country are going to feel the same need and pressures to sort of validate the academic achievements of their athletes whether this will just wind up with the university having weaker authentic programs compared to the competitors in the NCAA Jim to test season on a pragmatic level. If there are any NCAA sanctions against the University's basketball program, which would force them off of Television, which would force them out of postseason play for a season or two those will be used against the University of Minnesota by every other major college coach in the country. So yes, there will be an (00:49:28) impact J Howard before we go here. I have to ask you this question. The governor yesterday raised the issue of press ethics regarding regarding this story and said that the Saint Paul paper was really irresponsible in publishing this story on the eve of the NCAA tournament game today true. You think I don't I respectfully believe that this Pioneer Press did a public service if in fact these young men are guilty as charged in their story Pioneer Press helped the University from playing for ineligible players in an NCAA tournament that could come back to bite them in their behinds. So to a certain extent the timing was advantageous to the university and I believe Walker London who I haven't met. I haven't met. Mr. Ventura either that they came out when they did cause that's when they got the data and of course the timing also, Is terrific as well for the newspaper? So I think the timing was just right and it was a public service. I think the George doorman who did the story deserves all sorts of Applause (00:50:43) Howard. Imagine what would have happened if the Pioneer Press had waited until after the tournament and everyone would have said okay. There's a major media institution covering up for a major academic institution. And if I remember Governor Ventura is campaign correctly. The whole point was shaking up politics shaking up the status quo shaking up institutions by come by bringing in Greater scrutiny. And now he's saying oh my gosh, they did this day before to mess with the destiny of our wonderful University. Something doesn't track there. (00:51:14) And I think also someone has been a sports writer now for 20 years if I may say so we are cheerleaders too much and we let this go past us too much and we're not dogs on the post mans pants up enough and when we do this sort of story, it's the right thing to do. We are pretty much out of time. But I want to get a quick comment from each of you before we wrap up 15 seconds or so from each assuming we get past this particular incident will all be well done at the you and we won't have to worry about this in the future. No, this is going to be a years process. I suspect we'll hear about other sports and I don't know that mr. Haskins will be back next year (00:51:54) Howard. I can't imagine the things stop here. I think that if anything it will lead to Greater scrutiny and like Jay says other things will come up that we don't know about right now, but we have reason to suspect are out (00:52:06) there. Thanks a lot guys for joining us today. Thank you always a pleasure sports commentators J Weiner and Howard Sinker joining us to talk about this University Minnesota basketball story academic story more on this story on our website www.mptv.org. (00:52:27) I'm Ray Suarez. The American South is the most uniformly (00:52:31) Christian region in the u.s. Yet (00:52:33) Jews in the South have a rich Heritage (00:52:36) while some struggled to make ends (00:52:37) meet cities like Atlanta were home to wealthy established Jewish families will explore two very different experiences of Jewish life in the south in the early part of this Century on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. (00:52:55) And a reminder over the noon hour. Today. We're going to shift gears here move from the athletic Arena to the world of theater big-time theater. And this week sir, Peter Hall. Who is the creator of the royal Shakespeare company was in in the Twin Cities to speak at the Guthrie Theater about the state of the theater kind of a state of the Theater address and how the theater fits into this multimedia world of ours video and TV and especially movies and just exactly how the theater is surviving. Yes indeed. He says the theater is surviving. In fact in a way the theaters prospering as a result of the new situation we find ourselves in so we'll get to that right after some news headlines which are coming up momentarily quick. Look at our Minnesota weather forecast. We can expect a sunny Sky the rest of this afternoon with a high temperature in the Mid-30s clear to partly cloudy skies are then forecast for Minnesota tonight with low single digits above in northern Minnesota to the teens and Southern Minnesota. Then tomorrow cloudy to partly cloudy skies are forecast with high temperatures in the 30s.