Good morning. It's 1104 with news from Minnesota Public Radio on Greta Cunningham. Go to vent or support the sales tax rebate for getting the state's budget. Surplus back to taxpayers Mentor also says he'll oppose any effort to use the current budget surplus to pay cash for the state's capital Improvement projects last year, the legislature approved a 1 billion dollar capital budget for Public Works projects nearly half of which was paid for in cash from her previous Surplus right now. The law says the remaining projects must be paid for with cash from the current Surplus. But Ventura says he wants to sell bonds for project instead of using cash. They already paid off 500 million of it last year. Now. They want to do another four hundred of it and it's not really these are capital projects that are going to go on and on and be used by people 20 years from now. I think you want to share that cost a little more right now. You've got tremendous interest rates out there. You may not have those two years from now.Announce his position last night during a discussion with the Minnesota citizens for him house speakers to you so I can agree with Ventura. Will Senate Majority Leader Rodger, Moe says paying cash was preferable to issuing bonds. John Barrow of Willow Alaska is holding the lead in the 330ml John beargrease sled dog Marathon. Aaron is taking a mandatory rest at the skyport checkpoint the last stop just 58 miles from the Finish Line at Grand Portage Baron could leave Skyward just before noon putting him on track for a possible finished late this afternoon or early evening for the last game. Ken Anderson is holding second place with Minnesota and Danbury Cinema Grand Rapids and third the pace the marathon picked up overnight after slow going and severely cold weather right now in the Twin Cities report of snow a temperature of 3 above the wind chill index of -24 that's news on Brett Cunningham 90 grados 6 minutes now past 11.Good morning, and welcome to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I can glad you could join us last month. It look virtually certain that another Minnesota senator in the tradition of Humphrey and Monday Lynn McCarthy would be running for president of the United States. But that was last month. And then this month Center paulwell Stones back problems flared up at last Saturday Center wellstone announced that he would not be running for president after all instead. He's going to focus on Senate business. And of course the big item on the Senate agenda is the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton, which gets underway on Thursday Center wellstone is joined us this hour from Washington to discuss his presidential decision the impeachment trial and really whatever else you'd like to discuss. If we invite you to give us a call or Twin City area number with the new area code is 651-227-6006 51227 6000 outside the Twin Cities. You can reach its toll free at 1-800.+242-282-865-1227 6000 or 1 800-242-2828. Thanks for joining us this morning. You're welcome. I'm sorry. They get a chance to announce running on your show. You talked about that. Yes, you had promised. You know, it's I tell you I'd be I'd be less than honest if I didn't tell you that and I said that she love you, I guess yesterday morning that in my head. I I know that I really had to do this but in my heart to do this would make this run for all that. I believe in for Minnesota to Country. It was just going to be a you know, a crusade a journey. I really want to take but I have a ruptured disc in my back and I just can't give up. I can't do a a national race right now. I mean, it just wouldn't be able to do it on.I'm not exactly a head right now in the presidential race, right? I'd have to come from behind which would take some effort. So I was going to say you were a long shot at do you think you might have been able to pull it off? So well, first of all, I'm not going to I'm not going to say that I can post office too easy to say that when you say you can't do it then you can say well if I had I would have done this and that the other I will do that. The only thing I can say with with some confidence is that we we were you know, I've been trying to call people in Iowa number to start New Hampshire just people I owe so much to for their help and I think we were great shape in Iowa in pretty good shape at the beginning we would have really done quite well. It's such a stacked deck right now and then you go to they immediately go to by Design California and other states in the west coast of the same day in New York.States in the east coast of the same day requiring zillions of dollars that have been hard but you know, if you really believe in something I think we would have done I think we would have made a real difference in II but I certainly can't say anything more than that without having tried to do it on the other hand. I said Saturday cuz I want to come home to to make the announcement that and I mean it as clearly as I could possibly say it. I thank my lucky stars to be a senator from Minnesota. I'm emotional about that support people in Minnesota giving me and I feel I mean not got a great job and I will plunge into it and and you know, it just I just said that I could do 7 days a week 18 hours a day six cities a day in the airplanes all the time. I didn't say I can't do six days a week 18 hours a day and I intend to do it and I'm going to continue to be getting a lot of calls the candidates that are running and you know vice president.Play another's and I'm going to die 10 to make a difference in this 2000 race. It's both of them control the house and the Senate and presidential and the good news is I get to be even much more home, which I always love a senator. You have said repeatedly, you don't plan to run for re-election to the Senate. Why not? Are you going to reconsider that talk about reconsidering anything? That's what I had said. It was more. I mean out of anger voted for term limits has made it clear that if we had campaign Finance reform, I wouldn't even in favor of it cuz I think people get to vote people in or out and by the way, I think the whole issue of driving big money out and bringing people back into politics is terribly important though. I was just you know, I felt thatI it's it's a it's it's personal. I just felt that you know, I love I love being involved in politics and public affairs. Most of my adult life. Even when I was teaching it was riding traveling Community organizing in there comes a point in time where you know, you want to spend more time with his family and loved ones and that's what I was thinking than two terms is a good long time to give this if dfl officials come to you and say look Senator, we are really up against it here candidates are likely can of two are going to remain in the field for president are they are there any of them going to be raising the issues that you wanted to focus on? I don't know, I reallyyou know, it's kind of I think there were there were several different when I was talking a lot about is Apothic taking our money politics and reform and you know in and getting big money out of politics has talked a lot about putting Universal Health Care coverage back on the table my passion, of course his children education that there's another in and all the issues to deal with race and gender in poverty in children that I think I've been kind of swept aside. There's another set of issues that I am becoming more and more focused on that. I think it's going to explode and beef Front Burner issues soon and has to do with concentration of power. I mean, you know as we speak. Let me just make a Midwest connection. I can tell you that or producers in Minnesota and Iowa South Dakota will tell you that while the for Packers that control over 50% of the market or in hog heaven, they're facing extinction and everywhere you look your area. I mean, you know as it as a journalist that mean telecommunications I every time I feel like I talk to somebody at one of these TV stations are radio stations are being Somebody else's just bought them out. I mean we're seeing this frightening concentration of power in so many sectors of the economy where I think frankly conservative should agree as well. You know, what you sort of wonder. Where is the Free Enterprise in the free enterprise system and I wanted to really talk about antitrust action. I want to talk about taking out and I'm going to is a senator or write legislation and take some of that around the country is just outrageous to see a couple of energy companies, you know, same thing in the health insurance industry same thing and agriculture same thing in banking and I think it's just becoming a frightening this concentrate same thing and telecommunication. So I hope so we'll see I just talked about his present or he called Bill Bradley called. I've got some other calls from people and I'm going to talk to him in but that's all of them. I said to him it was never that I was running against you. It was what I'm for. I think Bill Bradley on one side of issues having to do with race in America and having to do with how we can do much better in the country. I think he will it will put a focus on that and then a good way and but I'm not endorsing anybody right now Center Paul wellstone joins us from Washington this morning, and if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call 651-227-6000. If you're calling from outside the Twin Cities use our toll-free line, and that's one 802-4228 to a ready for some question Center. I am by the way to give my present course. It is to be even-handed in relation to what it's just it's just a crisis in capital letters. I mean who can forget this past year but I think that's what the vice president announced and I was also some a buyout for dogs from the disease Hertz is a is a step in the right direction. But you know what? I'm going to push the administration I'm going to say what about public disclosure? Why aren't these Packers Hormel cargo? You name it? Why aren't they were fired to publicly disclose what their pain are farmers so that the farmers know where the one group of farmers is being played off against another and what what what the contracts are and why do we just have a few? A few industries that or a few large corporations that dominate the market. This is not healthy Melanie your question for Senator wellstone place to the first one is since you're not going to be running for the third term and you said the reason why you backed out of the presidential race was because you can't do a senator from Minnesota and one for the race. Will you be running for 2004? And the other question is I'm a little bit confused on the that when the house was doing the impeachment hearings the Democrats. We're very irate over the fact that no witness was called and then now that it's over to the Senate and the Republicans want to call witnesses. So Democrats in the White House, don't what is that all about? Let me take them one at a time on on 2004 it is so so that's so far in the future. I can't even begin to talk about it mean it just seems like a thousand years away. That's the honest answer that's not evasion. And on the Minnesota National. What I was saying is I could have I thought I could have thought I could manage the back pain and do both when I'm saying is that I can do probably one or the other great right now, I think but I can't do both it just the paint wears you down and you can't do it that day and it is true that and I think that there's not anybody in Minnesota who would just agree with me on this. You know, your first Allegiance is to your state that's his true. And if you think that in any way shape or form to International race is going to take away from that then you just can't and I never would even if you and I'm sorry for getting first name. Imma take out those Melody Melanie Melanie, even if we disagree on issues, I think that That you would agree that that's a first priority for anybody who's representing Minnesota. It is to do that. First on the washer would have loved to have had a chance to do this race is well on the house and the Senate part. I can't even speak for what happened over in the house. I don't even want to get into democrat-republican deal on what I can say to you. Is that for my own part and I will see if this develops. I'm I'm pretty sure I'm worried about the witness part only because I'm not sure how you kind of say will only have five and then other people say but we ought to have additional Witnesses and then you end up getting split votes has to this witness for that witness. And then and then you have to have deposition and then you have to have a break and schedule and it goes on and on Monica Lewinsky comes in to testify don't know what's out on the floor. What is now the floor there's a whole lot of things that I just I just don't want to become like what happened in the house Melanie whatever the result is. That's that's my first point. That's really what I'm focused on the second thing. Is that yesterday and I do feel really strongly about this and I have no idea what the vote will be. I do think however that when it comes to right now and this is he know this is an interpretation of a rule that goes back to the last century when senators were elected by state legislatures. They weren't there wasn't even direct election. I think that right right. Now the way the rules that were operating under say that at the beginning when the house comes in and makes their case and then the White House responds and we ask questions and writing that's all open to the public but that when we actually go into our own deliberations and our debate and for example, there will be a motion to dismiss the charges and that will be voted on if that is not successful. There will be a motion as to whether or not they should be Witnesses or which witnesses to testify and if and then at the very end, of course that may very well be a final vote on whether to remove the present I am I feel very strongly, Mark and I both said this yesterday that that it would be a terrible mistake the clothes to go into closed session. I do think that that should be I mean, I think we should be accountable to the public eye. I think people are not going to trust this process all of a sudden we go into closed session. I mean, this is a very important question. We're going to be debating. I think people should have Chance to be a part of the debate. I think that's better for the healing in the country. And I don't buy the argument that because because it'll be covered by C-SPAN somehow people will not conduct themselves with dignity. I mean, I think that stuff, you know, we have had some to basically the war in Iraq that we're both the great debates all of which was open to the public will add to your motion or your effort to keep the process open here. Will that come up tomorrow during the technical procedure, but I don't think so. It depends upon what I'm not sure of is I got we got it kind of from the parliamentarian get his assessment. But I think that the only reason we would need to do it tomorrow would be if for example the White House move to dismiss charges doesn't sound like they're going to and which case I obviously we would then go into our own deliberations and our own debate and and we would try to suspend the rule. My guess is that this will be more likely than not come up next week or within the next two weeks if that's the way it looks right now and I'm not even sure that there's a going to be any kind of apple Pro party split on this now, you know, what what's interesting is that when we deliberate on the r or motion to suspend the rules that will be in private all that debate. Will none of that debate will be open to the public presumably people with the public will know how people voted but they won't know anything which is a bit ironic and I don't even think that the split over this question. Is that there was a lot of national covers last night. I didn't see any TV. So I don't know what it was. But I hear there was of the press conference that Tom and I had but I have no idea though. I think people I'm sort of my guess is that most people country will think will you know if they're going to have their deliberations in their debated on to be open to the public and my guess is that people believe that my guess is that most journalists believe that what I don't know is how the boat will turn out. I don't know whether I don't think it's going to be on a party-line actually a tall is my gas. It'll be interesting to see Kevin Durant question for Senator wellstone place to make an ethical decision here. And on the charging. Well, you know, I have been mean I got a little bit of credibility cuz I don't quite often don't have some more than once not taken a party line and certainly haven't visited that mean certainly have been in plenty of opposition to President Clinton on policy. Of course, I could go on and on about this question. I mean the couple things I want to say one absolutely will listen to all of their the presentation of the evidence and how people and they make their case you name it and want to know whether or not the fact the charges can be backed both of of line before grand jury, which I think it's clear. The present has done that it's less clear as to obstruction of justice. I think that's the work your area and I want to listen I have said that I that that's one set of questions the second question. I think really a board which is why they're not even if you which is which is after you so listen to all the facts on the particular charges. Do you think that this sort of now it's serious Enough by way of constituent a threat to the freedom and liberty of people the country that you going to remove a present and I'm skeptical I said that I'm skeptical that it will be but we'll see. I mean I am I'm just being very honest with you. I mean it was Benjamin Franklin who won at the impeachment Warner case devoted to remove a president from office as the functional equivalent of assassination mean you only do it when you feel like what this president has done any president constitutes a direct threat to National Security of the country. That's. I have a very high threshold, but you know, we shall see the other point. I wanted to make it. I'm sorry. I'll try not try not to keep To be brief about this August more composite really complicated topic. I think you know, Kevin is really good because we tour taken out to be impartial and then the question becomes what does impartial mean they're different definitions. In other words. Should you be listening to your constituents or does that mean you're not impartial ORD is the definition of being impartial listening to what your constituents say about this? It's so it's all very new and all very interesting and there's very little Preston for any of it and frankly everything that's in the Constitution about impeachment and removal from Office. It would Gary take you one minute to read everything that's in the Constitution about this. So it sort of the Senate determined its own rules, but I think we're judicial body, but it isn't true that all of us now have black robes and that, you know, we just sort of render this opinion and that we're in and we just want to look at the facts and then we look at the Constitution and we look at the other charges and we look at the facts and we render it a sort of legal opinions were also in a political process as well. So it's All kind of very complicated. What do you mean when you say that you're in the midst of a political process any people have trouble understanding what that means. I mean that I mean the first of all I mean the the United States. The House of Representatives in the United States Senate. I mean we're all elected office. I mean, we are all Democrats and Republicans. We're not we're not a court and even and even even in this process, we're not if we were a jury and we were sequestered I wouldn't be talking to you right now and we won't be talking to anybody. It's it's so different. I'm it's kind of impart traditional and it sparked political and I also mean to be just very honest about I think all of people want a different people operate within different Frameworks of values and self-interest and power and one person solution is another person's heart and people look at the world is very different ways. And and frankly the same thing can be said for the Supreme Court. I mean there is a sort of notion that you know that the judges in the robes. It's all just kind of impartial legal opinions will if that was the case. How come at one point x y z versus Ferguson, you know separate but equal was fine, and we could have segregated separate facilities. And then later on it was Brown versus the Board of Education. Are completely different decision, you know what I'm saying? So you never can people do start from different values. It's it's it's it's the I think you do your best to be rigorous. You do your best at being honest, but I do think that everybody has to remember that this is the what we do know for the Constitution is it when it comes to remove from office this decision wasn't going to be made by the Supreme Court. I mean, the one thing the founders had in mind was it would be made by the House for impeachment in the United States Senate and they knew we were elected to office albeit indirectly for senators. And therefore we knew that I knew that this was part of the what we call the political process in our country before we break for some news headlines Sarah. I'm kind of a more conservative and political leaning but I've always voted for you. One of the reasons I voted for you is cuz I think you have a strong sense of integrity and I always know where you stand on the issues, even if I don't always agree with it. One of the things that that I'm concerned about a national politics is that I see they're not being as much Integrity among National politicians and I attend to see there being like this. I don't know mudslinging Cult of Personality issue that's taking over. Could you comment on that a little bit whether or not you see that as a problem yourself on the national scene. Well, first of all, I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate it. If I I can just tell you Sarah that I said that she loved that when I finish public service for politics in Minnesota. If if most people in Minnesota said what you just said, he would not agreement on issues. I would just be prayerful be thankful. Thank you on the second part all I mean, I think that almost more than anything else I even found this out some of my travel around the country. I think people are are now. More than any other time that I've seen in recent history just more interested in whether a person Weatherby you or anybody who's running for office is real or is not his on people are really, you know, they want to be treated with intelligence and they are more interested in whether or not the person that they're trying to evaluate who's running for offices is honest that they can believe in believe in you that they can believe in what you're saying that you're that sure you're saying it with conviction. I mean people really care about that. They really care about integrity and I also think that's why I said that people in both parties are wrong to believe that reform and it is not a big issue to people. I didn't people want to see a lot of money out of politics and I think people really want to want to see a political process that they can Ward believe in and also that it's that speaks to them and to their families and their concerns that all this is the big question. That's why I mean, how else do you explain? How else do you explain 63% of the people in the country will be the Minnesota? We had a good strong turnout, but 63% of the people Nationwide didn't even vote in the last elections. Clearly. There's a considerable amount of disillusionment part of this because of what you said and the other part I'll be finished as the slash-and-burn you mention that to this whole sort of destroy. Your opponent kind of politics is just people are sick of it and I'm glad they are Minnesota senator Paul wellstone is our guests this our joining us from Washington. And then let me give you the phone number here don't call right now because you'll just get a busy signal but try back in a few minutes. 651-227-6004 1 802-4228 2/8. 651-227-6001 800 242-2828 will get to see more colors in just a couple minutes. I'm Chris Roberts on the next All Things Considered some prominent minnesotans weigh in on President Clinton's impeachment trial I would be in jail by now. What Bill Clinton is going through is what people of color gold? In the legal system all the time all things considered begins at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio Kano W FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities over the noon hour today what to do with Minnesota budget surplus there was a Citizens Forum hell last night too. So that the citizens could chat with Governor Jesse Ventura and legislative leaders is Steve swag. I'm at Rodger Mo and will be broadcasting that event that for them over the noon hour today also catch up on the latest tax Surplus talks at the state capitol programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Ecolab Global partner with leading Hospitality Healthcare in food processing customers and probing cleaning and sanitation standards worldwide www.ecolab.com news headlines. Now, here's brother Cunningham. Good morning. Carrie President Clinton is working with speechwriters today on his State of the Union Address. He came up with a 20 to 30 page draft over the weekend Clinton AIDS The president is going ahead with plans to give the speech next week as scheduled despite the impeachment. Trial White House. Spokesman. Joe Lockhart says the case Outline by house prosecutors reads like a cheap mystery 13-page White House response to the Senate Summit submitted yesterday says the president denies each and every one of the allegations against him in the Monica Lewinsky case, the house managers are scheduled to begin arguing their case against the president before the Senate at the end of this week followed by defense from Clinton's lawyers next week, Chicago Bulls Superstar, Michael Jordan announce his retirement tomorrow Jordan led the Bulls to six League championships in the 1990s in Regional news Congressman, Colin Peterson's press secretary says Peterson won't leave Congress to head the Minnesota DNR under Governor Ventura and tour interview Peterson and three other candidates for the DNR commissioner yesterday Peterson had said earlier that under the right circumstances. He would consider resigning from Congress to lead the state agency. Aventura. Spokeswoman says the governor's office had no Open immediately notified of Peterson's decision and ethics panel is considering new evidence today and a conflict of interest case against Staples Deere Feller down with Sam Sanders accused of accepting $12,500 Consulting work from the University of Minnesota after authoring legislation on the school's behalf. Sam says there was no connection between the fee and the legislation. He says the university offered him what he regarded as a legitimate Consulting contract the stock of Minnetonka bass Musical and stores jump more than 3% yesterday after the company announced plans to launch several internet sites to sell music videos books electronics and software musicland already operates more than 1,300 stores in the United States and Britain including the Sam goody media play and Suncoast video chains the forecast for the state of Minnesota today calls for occasional light snow in Southern and Central. Minnesota will be sunny in the north cold today with highs from 1 below zero in the north to 10 above in the South right now in the Twin Cities a report of snow a temperature of 3 above with a wind chill index. -20 + Gary that's a look at the latest news on Minnesota Public Radio in our guests. This our joining us from Washington, Minnesota. Senator. Paul wellstone lots of callers on the line and Ruth your question for Senator wellstone, please I'm really confounded. I always enjoyed the listening to you because you are always so informative but we're really kind of found me and maybe a lot of other people out there is a fact that our Constitution be that as it may is old and maybe we should get a group of individuals together to get a revised Standard Version because something like this that has come to point is is is really comes on the nation and I'm really concerned with the fact that the word misdemeanors sticks out so much in in you can pinch mint The proceedings and I cannot believe and can you explain to me or do you understand? Why someone as young as Bill Clinton would allow himself to go this far and allow himself to pass me not be able to ever hold a public office again and to take it this far without stepping down and being able to go on with politics. He seems to enjoy that's my first question. The second question is just your opinion on Elizabeth Dole in her possible candidacy. I will hang up. Why doesn't he? Well, okay, I love will break it down in that 2 on the on the Constitution part. I I think Bruce did you know? It's it it really is a set of living document. It can be applied in OTA kind of life right now. And I I think it has served as well. The interesting thing. However, is that different people interpreted in different places, you can get into never-ending debates about the intentions of the Pope founding fathers is as well. And as I said earlier, you can read all that there is in the Constitution that deals with impeachment and removed from office and I'll take you one minute. I mean, it's it's very it really so much of this is now left up to the Senate which is of course what Justice rehnquist is said as well on the present stepping down right now. No, I don't think you should and the reason I don't think he should is that I think it would set a dangerous precedent for people being able to I'm not at all in Amberg what happened in the house with the way it was especially with the way it happened and I do not want anybody whether it's House for publicans Or democrats the future to go after our president democrat or republican in the way that it happened in the house. So I don't think he should I don't think you should resign I have to have to also say one other thing as well, which is that I think that he however much I have been just aghast at what happened in the House of Representatives the big the Genesis of all of this is also Bill Clinton's own behavior, and he has brought a bunch of this upon himself and while I I have a very high threshold and I would apply this to any president ever he or she was removed from office. I I do not in any shape any way shape or form I want to directly or indirectly condone what Bill Clinton has done and I think the thing that I would probably have the most difficult time for giving him, you know in forgiveness is important, but I think the effect on young people and they just be increasing cynicism has just been awful. I just that this the dishonesty. I think I think you did lie before the grand jury, and I think that that is whether or not it's grounds removed from office as one question. But but is it serious as it reflects the lack of values was it the wrong thing to do is it that it's at the cynicism of people in the Country tour Public Service. Yes. Elizabeth Dole for president XI I think I think she's going to be strong candidate that mean I think she's going to be a strong candidate for four good reasons and and maybe some bad reasons on I go almost everything I have to say is good. And the only thing I want to say in the negative isn't so much about her. I mean, I think she's engaging I think it's I think it's great to have a woman step forward. I think she act you know, she she she might be a whole lot better at the politics of the better Al doe Bob Dole was Robert was a very very good Senator, but as a candidate, I don't think he was that strong. I think she'd be a lot stronger really on the only thing that's unfortunate is the first thing that's ever said about all the people who are potentially thinking of running is there access to money. You don't everybody says wow, she can pull in all that money right away. it's just so frustrating, you know, it's like we evaluate who gets to run for these offices and also also often it's you know, so little content of character or leadership ability or Vision or values or raining else and it's all whether or not you have a ton of money or whether you can bring in a ton of money. I just I wish that wasn't such a big criteria is a little galling Democrats last many years have have portrayed themselves as the real champions of women's rights here. And here it is. There are the Republicans may end up with the water running for president should step forward and being major leadership positions in our country. If both parties, so it's not going to me. I think it's healthy Ryan your question. Is there still a long way to go before nomination Brian your question for Senator wellstone. Cheese restaurants in the Midway area Saint Paul. Yeah, and I looked on Raymond Avenue. Sounds like a great plan and it was just great to see you there and it kind of leads into my question which is not a keen political Observer, but I have noticed some Trends in Minnesota. And when I think back on the early candidacies of Rudy boschwitz of yourself, and of course of butter Jesse Ventura, I think one of the things that all of you had in common was incredible populists appeal that people were able to look at all you guys know Rudy boschwitz was the guy on the commercials and no Jesse. Everybody seems to know somebody like Jesse Ventura that them carrying a lot of weight in Minnesota politics that people felt a lot more comfortable voting for someone that they could identify with that for whatever reason and I was just curious what you thought that that was just a Minnesota peculiarity or whether there's any actual for the Nationals. Show 4th at 2 to be an issue in and one from from what you know of the field of candidates out there. Do you think anyone out there right now has a particular populists appeal that might be able to touch on some of those cinnamon. Well, I think the thanks for what you said I Barb she has the keys restaurant is crepe place in my brother, but I love the one in Raymond St. Paul. I think they still you know, Brian even with all of those sort of money and science of manipulation and figuring out what buttons to push and ads on TV and all that stuff there still some intangibles. Thank God that matter and I think one of them is the ability to connect to people and I still think it and it certainly now and I think in Minnesota, it's really important. I think in the midwest it's real important to use the word populism. Is it real important Nationwide? I think so, but but I think Minnesota in the Midwest of the sort of kind of has a this is a very special place when it comes to sort of the kind of I don't know intangible or thing that you're talkin about too many people really want think people really I think we all tend to sort of put up maybe more of an emphasis on forgetting me. I'm not even talking about myself but on People in public office that we think like us the arness's that will surely have to be forget it. Forget it. I'm there to get to started down this road, but you know what I'm saying? And nationally, I don't know. That's what I wanted to do not going to be able to but I think it's I think it is important to be able to touch people and be touched by people always believe that Whoever whatever whoever you are, whatever office. Greg your question place on 1st. I like to say that I've always supported and admired the way you do business. Thank you. And the first I rather think I read a nation that we spend a billion dollars and C-130 is that the Army didn't ask for and they're going to be built in nutes district and station in different locks. Yeah, and I don't know if you had a comment on that in the second thing was I believe we spent five times more than our next nearest competitor on defense now and cleanse pushing for a 40% increase and Republicans don't believe that's enough and I'm just wondering if we're expecting an invasion from another planet or something. Well, you know, it's I think couple points. First of all, I'll take it sort of the reverse what you said great that I didn't President Clinton calling for a really big increase in the Pentagon budget is how rageous and by the way, if you're going to do what you should be doing it for Weaponry that we don't need you ought to be doing it to deal with living conditions of a lot of our men and women that are in the service, you know would not very good salaries and not pretty awful housing conditions people that were stationed abroad. That's the Scandal and it'll what in the world were putting it into this some Weaponry that's wasteful that we don't need just because it's you know, quote pork or a project in a particular congressman's District be a Newt Gingrich or orbi extender. Lots of the second point I would make which I think is also an agreement with what you said is that you know, it's all a matter of of of national priorities and and I think you know, I Needs to be in a sort of a somewhat of a redefinition of National Security. We're of course where you don't have our military strength, but also, you know part of our national Securities are security of local communities. We all were people have jobs and portable child care in decent Health Care children have the best education and and the and is affordable housing which I get bigger and bigger issue in the country. I can't believe there is any more discussion of this right now and so I'm very much an opposition last time the Pentagon budget came before the floor of the Senate where to vote against it from Wisconsin and I voted against it because of the size of the budget or the way the Pentagon spends the money a little bit of both. I think the And I don't know what sleep deficit and I'm just kind of going to apologize. I think of Larry. I want to say Corp. Getting his last name that broke into his Deputy under Secretary of Defense in the Reagan Administration has written some very good stuff in the Brookings Institute arguing that do, you know really in the post-cold war. We can indeed reduce the Pentagon budget and especially focuses on some of the outdated assumptions. So it's in park overall and and and and and I think I can be reduced. I'm still with the strong defense and the second thing is I also question some of the priorities as I've just mentioned internal priorities. I think the Scandal is the living conditions of some of the people that are in the armed services some of the people that are in our military and I really resent it when we go forward up some Weaponry that we don't need just because there's a powerful political Lobby behind. Is there a way to get a get a handle on that on the way. The Pentagon spend its money as a practical matter. It seems like as long as I can recall one expert after another has been called in to try to get get that squared away and eliminate waste or shipped priority. So on so forth and and I suppose something has changed. Although it's hard to tell that it anything much as change them. I'm really surprised at some of the momentum that we've lost it and it challenging the budget of politically it's hard because you have a me. What happens is you have you know, I guess Dwight D Eisenhower talked about military industrial complex. I mean you do you do have an awful lot of political power that lines up for these two contracts big companies, you know jobs what not and spread out around the country so that you know it including Minnesota. We got, you know, defense contractors and you know, and then once by the way the decision has been made I try to do my very best for our company's but Raw and sometimes you know, you have to go and meet with people I have with companies that do defense-related work and I've said to employees look on I'm 4 I mean, I I I can't believe with your skills or is it more answers on diversification in the navel in you and the company to make transition to producing other things but I can't support this Pentagon budget at the level that it's at because I think it's this place priorities, but politically it's kind of hard to go against it at the moment. There's not there really isn't it isn't even we're talking about it. But if you if you think about it for a moment it it's not it isn't a front-burner question or a front-burner issue any longer not if not at the moment, I think it should be Bob your question for Senator wellstone. Thank you for taking my call Senator like to ask you about the merger of Mobil and Exxon. I'm really troubled by that. I mean the fact is that is Norma's concentration of of wealth and economic power in the last time this nation call on the oil industry to to submergence. It's only conomic interest was during the Arab Oil Embargo and we put price controls on and if you read the sports report, which was done by now federal judge Stanley sporkin. Basically, they just disregarded the regulation and they did not and you know, they acted in their own self-interest not the national interest and I don't see how you're going to focus this kind of economic power in two entities that were broken up at the turn of the century and not have it. Have it be a bad thing for this nation. I think it will be going to you know, after we finish this trial. I'm going to have staff even while we're trying to work on. This is an area. I'm going into Bob. It's it's and I I think maybe when I come to Florida Senate, I'm going to have to give some of the Teddy Roosevelt speeches about the need for antitrust action. And this is one example, I I think you know it almost to be a theme of putting free enterprise back into the free enterprise economy, but I just cannot believe the mergers and the concentration of power. They're taking place Mobil Exxon. There's been an in the health insurance industry. It's just unbelievable the way in which Managed Care has become more and more concentrated owned by just a few large insurance companies. I talked earlier about what's happening agriculture. Same thing is going on in telecommunications, which I find very scary cuz I think flow of information is is is Important to a to a democracy and I don't want to see the you know, just a few networks are a few conglomerates controlling that so I mean, I think it's very dangerous and I'm one of Joe Klein. I need some good job at the head of antitrust Division and I want to send a whole series of letters and meet with him. In fact that to find out what they're attending to do. And if any of the laws change to take action the one I want to find out why not take some action here and if if you need to have the laws change then I'm willing to write different laws. I think you're absolutely I complete agreement with your question and I'll try some. Just so, you know since earlier we were talking to Greg of Ryan what about populist? I will tell you that I think people are In the country very very skeptical about dig. I mean people are skeptical about the government. But if anything they're just as skeptical about the you knowing you know cafes in Minnesota as you sit down and talk to people in over coffee and Pie and they don't like the way in which the you know, the branch banks were taking over in the Independent Bank's they there don't they don't like the health insurance industry at all. They sure as heck are suspicious of Mobil Exxon merger. They don't like it. They don't like with the way in which the muscle the way the dinner table and pushed family Farmers out and you know, you name it. They're not it's just it's just absolutely true. And you have to keep them in a Cellar Wine. I just say this it's you know, it's a kind of a just lay it on the table. I mean, I think you know, there's a not only are some of his pretty pretty frustrated with Northwest airline management for not You know sitting down and I'm working out agreements with their place till we don't know what's going to happen with flight attendants and people that are you know working. Working as we go to the gates and people check us in and out of planes people that work for North the employees of Northwest Airlines still not settled and you got what what what what what where's the competition me? What what other mean wait we saw it what what happens we've got essentially one airline that pretty much you know, dominates the whole Market. I mean, I think many of us are wondering, you know, whether or not this is particularly help it I don't think it is and I think people in Minnesota feel that way Northwest physical exam for the company doing better, but I'm telling you right now, it's not very healthy to have one or two companies controlling well over 50% of the market. I wish we had more time here, but I give him a break is when I slept a little a little. Small businesses have a fair chance. Isn't this the Way of the World Auto Center? I mean on the one hand at one point you could look at the say this oil company merger and say well GA it it's a huge concentration of power within the borders the United States, but now that we're in this global economy, isn't this the way things are going to have to operate it up within a much larger scale. We know what an in there's one part of your question. I appreciate you know, you're going to do is read a lot about the oil industry. I think he's made the argument that the that this may be a good thing. So you maybe I don't happen to agree on a more. I think I think I'm more agreement with where Bob's heading but let me concede the point that from top that they be sometimes this is what has to happen Okay, but I will tell you over this is not like Adam Smith's invisible hand carry. This isn't sort of like the law of gravity, you know, it's as if it if it is inevitable, it's the inevitability of a stacked deck. It is it is the inevitability of a stacked deck of government and public policy that is driven by these big financial institutions and large corporations that all too often beholden to them. Let's talk about the linkage of money and politics where the small businesses and other people who want to compete aren't given a fair shake. So no, I don't think a lot of this is inevitable including in this global economy. And I recommend build Riders book One World ready or not. And I also recommend recommend George Soros is book the title of what you saved my mind right now who's met plenty of money off of what's going on in this International economy. Who also is Raising all sorts of questions about where this Global economics dominated by just a few conglomerates is taking us and I don't think it's taking us in a good direction. That's good. At least one more. Call her on here Chris. Go ahead, please. And I'm calling to ask you some questions. I'm in that your daughter Spanish class right now and roll listening to the show, and we're really enjoying it and we're wondering what your views are awesome. I hear it's running what's your views are on public education in the future? And can you babysit for Josh on Thursday? I don't know whether we'll be home Thursday. I am so happy to get this this call. Thanks Chris and my love to you Marsha. Marsha said I'm really proud of her as a teacher and I think that to me Chris education public education is the sort of foundation of opportunity. And I mean, I think it is the single most important thing we can do is invest in the skills and health and intellect and character and character of young people. This is my passion. This is what I believe in and I think we should be doing much better in this area and thank you. Thank you for the question Marcia. Thanks for having your class. Listen, and I hope you guys do hope I hope it's okay with the students. She didn't force you to do it if she force you to I hope you are challenging her. Set a reminder to come back before we wrap up here to the to the impeachment trial which really gets under way on Thursday via, deception is that when all is said and done that President Clinton will not be removed from office. Right? Do you agree with that or do you think once you know the trial gets underway people will think differently about this particularly if they don't have an opportunity to vote any kind of sensor motion. Yeah, we will have an option to go to the censure motion. You are sad. Yeah, there is no question about and many of us will and and the stronger the better. Look I will just tell you right now that I do not believe that there will be two-thirds vote to remove the president. And I'm not trying to prejudge. I'm just you're asking me this is my sense of of what's going to happen. I do not think the most I do not believe 2/3 of senators are going to believe that the the charges what would you whatever charges approving and we'll have to wait and see on obstruction of justice. That seems to me to be the case hasn't been made yet that this this represents as I said earlier threat to Liberty. I don't believe the president will be removed from office now, I could be wrong, but you ask me what I think Assuming he is acquitted acquitted. I think I think a large part of his presidency is I mean, I think it is a tragedy. I think some of his some of his presidency will have collapsed. It's not true. It is true that this is not the only issue that people care about I just was ask Chris about education people care about a lot of other issues that are very important in their lives. It's not true that people don't however care about what the presents done and I think most people are not at all pleased with his conduct at the personal level, but I also think people hated what they saw in the house and I don't blame them. I think it was shrill and I think it was I think it was not anything that I would be proud of. So, I think the Republicans have got something to answer for I think that they did not do a very good job. Maybe they'll do better over here. Democrats, I mean maybe they'll do better. I mean the house members who come over here and make the presentation. Senator thanks so much for joining us today. Well, thank you very much and good luck with what's a momentous decision coming up. Well, thank you. And again, I'm really really I am disappointed that I didn't get to do the presidential race announce it on your show, but I I'd say being a senator Minnesota was a pretty darn good deal when you thanks. Thanks a lot. So dry Minnesota senator Paul wellstone joining us from Washington to talk about his decision not to run for president. And of course to talk to about the Senate impeachment trial which really gets underway on Thursday with the house making its presentation on why it believes present that should be removed from office. We will be providing live coverage of course of the Senate impeachment trial. Programming an MPR is supported by made the Minnesota Association of professional employees Minnesota state professionals delivering State services with excellence and pride to Minnesota. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio a reminder that will be rebroadcast in our conversation with Senator wellstone at 9 tonight in case you missed the program rebroadcast at 9 news headlines are coming up next and then right after the news we're going to be broadcasting last night citizens Forum on what to do with a state budget surplus you'll hear from the governor legislative leaders and lots of citizens like yourself. I'm Ray Suarez debutante balls boarding schools Summers on the vineyard sounds like a year in the life of the white upper-class. It also describes the world of America's black a leaf Ray Suarez at 1 this afternoon. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have some snow at 3 degrees above zero at Cana W. I found 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul the wind chill right now is 20 below and the Weather Service says we can look for light snow through the rest of this afternoon. It's warm. It's going to get very very cold tonight with a low around fifteen below.