6 minutes past 12 programming on NPR is supported by carousel automobiles the Audi store introducing the A4 and A6 Avant wagons available in front track and Quattro models. Good afternoon, and welcome back to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. That's our we're going to focus on the news media weather people are getting what they need from the media and what might be done to improve the quality of coverage specifically. We're going to hear from Governor Arne Carlson little for the past 30 years has spent his time in public service and who notes that the changes he's observed in the media over these last thirty years make it clear to him at least that the media and need to change the way they operate and Arne Carlson says the news media need to develop a code of ethics which can be used to measure media performance. Carlson says all public institutions need to examine are there doing their job and the media he says is not exempt from that need for self-examination already Carlson spoke this weekend at a meeting of the Minnesota chapter of the Society of professional journalists. Here is Governor Arne Carlson speaking on media accountability. I've spent some 30 years in elected office. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. And frankly, I do look forward to moving on and I do want to spend a part of my retirement or semi-retirement comment that confront both Minnesota as well as the United States. The fact of the matter is that you with journalist are more than journalist and likewise for those of us in the public sector. We too are more than simply members of the public sector where members of families were parents were involved in our communities. Wheel of certain amount of avocation be at Hunting Fishing baseball or whatever else it may be we're divided and tugged and pulled and a whole variety of directions, but we believe that we have some common friends that tend to pull us together and make us if you will at least in a broad Sense part of the American or part of the Minnesota community. We sincerely want to bequeath to our children more opportunities and a more quality Society than that society that we believe we inherited as fundamental as fundamental to the American dream as defined by our immigrant parents. He was their belief that if they worked hard and they sacrificed if they gave their children a sense of values that their children would do better than they dip and up until recently. That premise has never been challenged. What's interesting about today is that we are finally reached the point. Where is abroad Society were recognizing that we do have a very serious crisis and values. For a while. We thought the word value simply belong to the religious right and the rest of us could ignore it. But now we're beginning to realize that there's an enormous cat. between what we are and what we have let me just give you some interesting points of data largely conomic. We're going through today the largest. Of economic growth in the peacetime History of the United States. Are unemployment nationally is down to some 4.7% in Minnesota. It's at an all-time low of 2.9% the percentage of high school students who graduate and go on to higher education is now 65% in 1940. It was some 35% and bear in mind. We're graduating more students today both in terms of numbers gross numbers as well as percentages that we did in 1940 are environmental games have been substantial. As a kid growing up in New York if you wore a white shirt in the morning, you were guaranteed by 5 p.m. That it would be black. So it was all over the Lake Erie and Love Canal at one point was brandished as hopelessly devastated Waters that would never ever come back today. You can fish. We have made significant gains and everything if you invested $10,000 for instance some ten years ago in an S and P fund today. You would have a value in excess of $52,000. if you define the American dream in the context of a car a home and access to education and we as a nation are doing splendidly all of this has an enormous impact on Who We Are and yet sadly when you turn the point over and look the other way. You find some startling news. You find one a highly cynical Society. 25% of the American people trust government to do the right thing only 25% 71% of American people do not believe that their opinion counts. This is not exactly a ringing endorsement of the American political system. For those of you in journalism you fare a little better. two-thirds of the people Believe that new stories are inaccurate. There's a matter of fact when you pull. On each and every institution the numbers today are far lower than they used to be. We are finally come to the point where we're brought up to believe that there isn't anyone that we can trust not a teacher not a religious leader. Not a business later not an elected official and not a person who reports to give us the news. Now we have some choices and that's what I really wanted to discuss with you today. as I indicated the American people now is a whole are beginning to realize that this crisis and values is probably America's largest problem. And take a look at what's happened in crime? We're not just seen an increase in crime. We're also seeing an increase in the degree of violence for tickly is expressed by our younger citizens virtually every day almost without exception. There's a new story of some underage person committing a crime Beyond human comprehension. Who would have thought 30 years ago that we'd be frisking 12 year old students to find out if they had weapons. But it's happening today. Likewise in the area of Education. We know that when we compared our test scores internationally that we do very poorly. We know that we now have some 14 million kids in the American case who 12 system that will not make it through 14 million. That's not a crack. That's a gaping hole. We know here in Minnesota where we prided ourselves is always being in the top three and every single educational indicator there when again when we turn the stone over we found that one-third of our kids could not pass fundamental reading or math at the 8th grade level. As we sit here and Downtown Minneapolis half the students entering K through 12 education in Minneapolis will not complete their education. and likewise in the area violence as a society regardless of who we blame regardless of who we point the finger at the reality remains that we in America celebrate by Yesterday morning we were greeted with the news that now on prime-time television be at the networks or be a cable television. We can be assured of the fact that 75% of the programming will consist of violence do years ago. It was 50% So we're not getting better in certain areas. We're going clearly in the wrong direction. Let me for a moment. Talk to you about what I regard as the connecting Link in our society. It is value. As you know, I'm a great fan of Clem Haskins. Sports writers by their nature must cover the game put in sport chosen all parts of human life is much more than the game. And you think that Clem has taught me and I think he's taught many many other people. Is that character is where it's at? When asked a question on what do you look for when you recruit you will acknowledge athletic ability basketball skills, but he says the most critical by far is character. I can teach a kid how to shoot he'll say But it's character that I want. That's how you build a team. That's how you build a sense of community a sense of togetherness if you will in order to forge victory. if you talk to the kids that have graduated and completed the program they look upon Clem is their father Clem is one of those people who is taking it upon himself along with his wife actually shape values and shape the young people they work with We as a society of chosen. All too frequently to sit back and simply quote blame the family. Well the most voguish things we do. Reality is many of our families are dysfunctional many of our families don't work. That is the reality. Now the question becomes what do you want to do about it? And I would argue that all of us all of the institutions. Are going to have to go back to work to start to restore their credibility. my father was an immigrant from Sweden one of the things I remember the most about him is every time he would talk about somebody who was quoted professional or somebody what state has in the society Society. He would always whisper. old songs of doctor I never understood why they felt keep such a secret. But it was out of this sense of respect. the sense of all Which by the way we've done a pretty good job at tearing apart today? Today if you don't look at the poles, we know what it's all about. Business Leaders are short-sighted. They're packed with greed and they're out to get you the consumer. religious leaders can trust them those of us in politics is pretty clear who we are all we do is feather our own nest and engage in conflict of interest. Michael's on and on to the result is we are not to be surprised at the high degree of negativism. The medium of all of the institutions is that institution, which is most critical the rest. And therefore it has to place itself in the position where it too will be the recipient of criticism through the matter is that there has been a lot of criticism. Wasn't that long ago that if anybody criticized the media he was instantly portrayed as foaming at the mouth being slightly demented and ready for a mental institution. But now we're beginning to realize that the media does shape. events and it shapes our attitudes towards events. More than half the public of America. Believes that the media plays quote the most influential role in determining which issues and which events are the most important the truth is you are important and with that importance goes to sense of responsibility. Let me tell you the story. A reporter for the Seattle Times, I believe it's a true story. I assure you I didn't invent it. We came out to Seattle. And worked with the times and he loves Seattle. It came from Ohio and he celebrated what he thought was the great quality of life in Seattle diversity of opportunity access to the Great Outdoors. He did everything he could possibly want. I mean was determined to stay there. And he was invited by his paper to go out into one of those seminars where the you let it all hang out. And he was asked for his opinion and he gave it and he talked about how he loved and how we would write these letters back to his family and to his friends that he's going to stay out in Seattle and why don't they come out here and enjoy this enormously High degree of party of life. But he said I must confess when I read my own paper. I think I'm living in hell. That's precisely what we have to be careful. But we have to be afraid of is that we may be like the dog chasing the car. We may ultimately succeed in catching the car. And then the question becomes what is it you're going to do with it? We may get the kind of society that we're headed towards. Let me if I may just make some comments relative to what I believe. Would be beneficial for the institution of the media to start considering after 30 years in public life. I've come to the conclusion that the beat reporters. Those are covered us being us at City Hall with a capital or capable their professional is thorough and they try to be as accurate as I possibly can within a limitation to Being Human be a great respect for all them. And more often than not a tremendous amount of affection and over time you learn to deal with the various nuances. Has a slightly more conservative person as a republican. I'm aware of the fact that were in the slight majority. Every once in awhile, you people are pulled and we see the results. I'm sure President Clinton was delighted with your over suffering support. but overall you do try to look at the filter through which you screen your information. You do come back with stories and I would say are fundamentally sound and overall fair and those of us in public life including those of us who were Republican and possibly even conservative. Have long learned to participate in the given take that takes place. But the real problem for my perspective is with those high-powered specialist that are brought into Drive-In ratings and drive circulation. They tend to pass over the working, press tour. And they're sort of portrayed by their own institutions in the same way that J Edgar Hoover portrayed the GMAT. They're coming in to clean it up. but the reality is it's largely driven by a desire to make more money. 10 large corporations control 50% of the media outlets in America Let me quote from some of the icons of your profession Walter Cronkite. The problem today is unreasonable profits that are required to satisfy shareholders. They're dragging us all down. Fred friendly recently passed away I'm CVS. How intellivision can we do our best when television make so much more money doing it's worse. And you sided with slightly more blunt. Let's put our finger on it. This business is driven by greed now like so many other businesses. Veron Lies the inherent challenge in the media show. The division between responsible professional goals are reporting on the activities and a Democratic Society versus the desire. to be profitable we as a nation. Have tended over the last decade or two. The focus on rights. Everybody has endless rights. Every day you pick up a new story. Somebody has sued somebody and collected a substantial sum of money because quote their rights. I've been violated. And it's all too little choc about the word responsibility. We're going to have to begin to recognize it if we're going to be a nation of victims. Who's in the Wii pointer? Who is it? That's causing us all this harm. Who is it that's causing us all of this distrust of ourselves. An ultimately Who games? The truth is if there's any finger-pointing to be done. It appears to be towards this very vague and definite thing called Society. Why were you drunk last night Society? Why did you engage in Mayhem welp? Your hard put to name an occasion. or somebody caught performing some Act violence or some active you legality that doesn't immediately declare himself to be a victim. The truth is how do we intend as a nation to remain a first-class Nation with the first class economy? If we continue to see ourselves as being mired and problems of cynicism self-doubt and a value system that rapidly approaches situation ethics. I want America fortunately the more we study history the more we learn that we tend to swing like a pendulum. Sadly to say we tend to swing too far and then we pull it in and then we swing too far. We pull it in and we go back and forth. Contrary to the fact that would like to see ourselves as Centrist and moderates. The fact of the matter is we do have extreme swings and I have a suspicion that just the fact that we're having this meeting this afternoon is indicative of the fact that we as a nation and you as members of the media institution. We're all beginning to recognize at least at the early stages that hey we do have a problem. Religion politics business the media in the United States have a splendid and a rich heritage. All have performed services to the American people that clearly clearly. Allow us to be enormously proud of who we are what we are. Now. The question that we have asked if it has to have to ask him ourselves is how far we going to let our problems. a values of greed immediate self-interest propelas to the point where we will lose our first class status and we will begin to realize that we are what we say we are. and to that I would say that from the perspective of a person in America's political system. I can honestly say and I think most people would wholeheartedly agree. We are one losing a lot of are good people with a Democrat Republican or liberal or conservative. But quality is clearly in Jeopardy, and we're not replacing them with the best and the brightest your hard put to look to your communities and say we are sending to Congress or we're sending to the White House or we sending to the state legislature was tending to the governorship our best and our brightest. I remember a few years ago getting on the phone trying to persuade people to run for the United States Senate. Every single person without exception turned it down every 140 years ago. 150 people would have been in there within 10 seconds. And you would be sitting back saying what a splendid array of talent. That's not the case today. And we have to start to assume all responsibility in it. I know those of you in the media have already been tackling the question of standards and journalistic ethics. And I know you beginning to realize the difficulty that you have in the sense that you have asked every other institution to develop standards. It's a little difficult for you to press that point when you don't have them yourself. And I also know that before I gave the speech several members of the media gave me copies of national standards. So I would assume there was a certain nervousness that the issue of Standards Whitaker today. The problem is is that yes, we do friend since have standards developed by the Society of professional journalists, but sadly less than a hundred newspapers in America. Are the indicated before? If we're going to allow ratings and circulation. to drive us and we are not to be surprised at the cynical outcomes. And the price that we going to pay for those then comes is something that I don't believe anybody here wants to pay the truth. The matter is anybody regardless of what profession you choose you will be proud of your profession you want to be able to go to social events and people say what are you whatever the answer is you want to be able to say it with pride? Those of us in government service we feel that we have lost a lot of our Prestige. I suspect those of you in the field of Journalism feel that you two have lost a lot of your prestige and I think it's absolutely essential that all of us begin to realize that we are apart of the community and can no longer see ourselves as being a part from that community. And we have a community of Interest. From my perspective. I sincerely believe that the political system in Minnesota is Sam. I believe it's honest and only on the rarest occasions if I come across people that I felt with this on but yet I see this undying propensity to pass more laws more rules more regulations more investigations more of everything to criminalize everything you realize that we're at the point now where it's literally criminal have a cup of coffee with the wrong person. men who decide to the wrong person is and the micromanagement of Lies and what do we gain? The essence of my profession in terms of Ethics should be there at no point should any member ever engaged in anything that even remotely resembles a conflict of interest never should you put your interests above those of the public you are there 100% for the well-being of the public that forceful people are going to disagree as to what constitutes the well-being of the public but there ought to be no disagreement on the fact that there was should be an absence of Self Service in the area public service. To those of you in the media, I would ask that you adopt specific standards just write a column someday and use unnamed sources on yourself and see how how you like it. I've been a target of that. I can in five column inches. using unnamed sources make Mother Teresa look like Jack the Ripper. But unless you want to be a victim of that you should also then be careful about utilizing. That is a tool. verification of sources clearly spelled out in journalistic standards absolutely essential ask yourself again. Would you like to be the victim? Of that kind of reporting if the answer is no and the golden rule applies. Ask yourself the institutional question particularly of those who run your Institution. What is their code of ethics? What I found interesting is when I have chatted. What some of the people who own some of the media? The answer almost invariably is too full. One is its money it's ratings. And the other is I had nothing to do with it. absolutely bottom line My point is this if I is governor and responsible. For the institution of state government then I would hold that those people who own and manage our media. Have a responsibility. To become part of the solution and not to justify everything on the grounds of ratings. and expanding circulation there has to be a balance between the desire to make money and the desire to serve. I would pray that the day will come in my lifetime when television was officially abolished ratings month. I mean that sincerely it has absolutely no place. In the Gathering and dissemination of news, I would pray that those promos have done little more than get television stations into trouble with n. I would pray that the day of these specialists. Who are hired by both the written? And the verbal media Within? Your regular Capital reporters. They know the players. They see it everyday 8-10 hours a day. They know what goes on they should be the one called upon to report not The Hired Gun coming in the quote do somebody in. I was a victim. a one of those quote expose days my campaign had to expend over $90,000 in legal fees. the state of Minnesota Expended a same amount of money. And found absolutely nothing wrong. The story was totally an error to this day. I have not even received so much as an apology. show people I've got to start to be sensitive of what it's like to be a victim of somebody else's desire to either Propel their career or to make money, but the larger issue remains in the larger issue is what is our contribution to the sense of community in Minnesota. Can we begin to see ourselves as positive players building the community as well? We have a vast number of remarkable people. We have a civilization in this nation that I think is second to none. We have made advances in every single aspect of human endeavor that you can name. We have built a positive agenda. We have an economy. It appears to be very very solid in spite of my nervousness about Japan and Asia, but it's a solid slow growth, people are doing better today than they were doing 10 years ago. We have a better crack at educating our children improving education approving our capacity to work to add to it to trade and Security International ever before we're beginning to recognize in the broad field of Education to the desperate need for reform. We would like to think that we in Minnesota have cracked open that egg but suffice it to say it's now part of the national agenda trying to empower parents and Empower children to make choices for the well-being of their kids we need now to also make sure we bring along to the institution of the media. When you take a look at the comments of a society or a Cronkite who were friendly. These are the icons of the profession waving the red flag and saying hey, what do you say we change because it true that matter is most of us in this room were brought up to believe and trust in the accuracy and the fantasies of the medium. We need you to excel. Otherwise, we will cause your reputable damage to the fabric of society. We need your intelligent commentary. We need your product. We need you to a Time sacrifice ratings in order to put on television particularly, but to the written press as well those kinds of stories, which may be though, but terribly important to people. We need you to do well so that we can do well in the we can restore and build the kind of confidence that we have to have it. Our institution if democracy in this country is going to thrive and if it's going to prosper and if we're going to remain a first-class power, thank you very much. Coming Arne Carlson speaking this weekend at a seminar on access and ethics sponsored by the Minnesota chapter of the Society of professional journalists following his speech going to Carlson took some questions from the audience, but governor in 1990 this Star Tribune used on name sources some private documents and other things in expose of your opponent Jon grunseth, which eventually drove them through the from the race was that inappropriate piece of reportaj in your estimation. I will always have questions about that because the truth is I can't answer that question. They've never fully revealed what that was all about and to this day there's still a mystery about what that was all about. Was that an example of a search and destroy mission and if so, why just Jon grunseth, why not the rest of the candidates in the field. It's a disturbing question. I don't have the answer because I don't know the information you talked about unreasonable profits to satisfy shareholders. I wonder if you could give us an idea of what reasonable profits are. And secondly, I guess there's a way of taking care of unreasonable profits and that's just to make the media part of government the government controlled media and we wouldn't have any unreasonable profits. Can you start a compare and contrast what level of reasonable profits are versus the alternative mean? What are the kinds of ownership structures might you suggest for the media want to do is contact Walter conkrite who made the comment here's his quote. The problem today is unreasonable profits that are required to satisfy shareholders. They're dragging us all down. That's a crime card quote of it. And the reality is the issue agree goes well beyond the media. It's literally hitting every single institution that we have in his hurting us immeasurably. We see it clearly they in professional sports and everybody has an opinion on but the truth is is driving virtually all institutions. What does constitute quote reasonable? I think the real question their Walter Cronkite is raising. The real question is why do we have to sacrifice quality? In order to satisfy the profit motive therein lies the balance and that's why the imposition of Standards is most helpful. It is serves if you will as a guide on what we what we can avoid in terms of Reckless journalism. I'm Bob Shaw. I know you. Wow. I'd like to hear your thoughts about the Minnesota news console. You made some allusion to that in your speech and in your remarks. I'd like to hear what you think about that. Okay, Shirley the Minnesota news council is I believe virtually unique. I'm not sure about that bass. Quite unique in the sense that it's an attempt. to create an institution that allows for a recourse for those people who feel they have been damaged. There's two dilemmas with it. I did participate in the in the process some years ago when I was state auditor. And I prevail. The apology that I received was buried on page 60 something of corporate reports. And this was for a front cover story. I wasn't terribly impressed with winning it all that much. It's a very it's also very complicated process. But to you'll notice that membership keeps dropping off two of the major television stations have dropped out of it. These are the Fargo forum for instance, which is strong is not a part of it. And so it's membership-based leaves a little bit to be desired. But I think the fact that we have it is a blessing and to some of us is the only one that we have. So I do a part and I mean that most sincerely but it's a complicated process that you have the power to require a newspaper or television station to give equal attention to the apology as they did to the original story. Governor you were in public life 30 years. My math is 22 of that before the governor's office. Did those 22 years? Were there any surprises for you when you in terms of media coverage when you got to the governor's office? What's interesting question? I would have to say this prior to becoming Governor. I had a very high compression of the median. I mean that I had a very high opinion and City Hall they've never was one of the reporters show. And I'm very fond memories of it. I think the drive for Ratings is relatively new something within the last decade and I think that's wrecked. Frankly a lot of harm upon. The system is a whole. I think the only memory I have in terms of becoming Governor it with that whatever is just that was a bit Starling was one of the significant increase in the amount of attention that one draws by being governor and two Country damn it. I thought I have a few months of a honeymoon honeymoon lasted about 36 seconds gloves were off Doug Johnson and made the comment the relative to the deficit the MB remind he was one of the Architects that created it one of the job. It's his problem. And from there on in I was to pick up the barbecue. It was a very very tough year. I mean a really and truly was was a very very tough year and you learn a lot from it, but I don't think that I was unfairly treated. I was just a little overwhelmed by the amount that was being drawn to the fact that I was governor and I suspect I'll be a little bit surprised at the lack of attention. I received for the remaining six months. Rattler simple KSTP suggest that the cynicism of the media has led to things like the ethics laws that limit you to sit down with a cup of coffee with a lobbyist. Do you think that the price of a democracy allows the public to have access to government records? The question that I'm not sure what your question is this the first part of the second part, if you want to know who drove the agenda for ethics, it's kind of a combination of factors more often than not that you'll always find the Fingerprints of the media on campaign reform and issues of political ethics. And so they can take some of the responsibility for that. What is puzzling about is if they will not apply the exact same status of themselves and I would argue is a person going out of office. I think it serves a public very poorly. I think the truth is what we now have in the legislature is a real deep sense of isolation. When we have legislators over and I can't remember what the occasion was, but we were trying to build some bridges prior to close the session and we had large groups of them over and then took him to a basketball game at the University of Minnesota surprisingly for the first time. Many legislators met ever let legislators that have never seen before. That's tragic that there's kind of this is sumption that whenever two elected officials get together or whenever an elected official and coat a lobbyist or somebody who works around the capitol get together. If somehow they're propagating some form of evil. I think we have to see if a governor for instance is invited. dinner what the president of 3M Corporation under the current rules and regulations, but I would have to call the president and say what is it you're serving tonight? How much will it cost monthly for the sake of discussion that cost $35 and less they for this discussion is the cocktail. Now the governor then has to decide. What wait a minute if I go and I want to put in a chip for $35 and the cocktail G somebody from the media is going to come running over and say why in the world should we pay for dinner between two fat cats? And besides look how elaborate it was. And we're certainly not going to refund you for the cocktail. So, you know what happens the dinner doesn't occur. I understand where we gain from that. I have real problems with that. I I think if we elect people to public office, we have an obligation to trust them if we don't trust them, why do we put them there in the first place? It's it's it's an absurdity. And how can you explain a House member meeting a senator for the first time at the tail end of a session and it happens. Thank you from the perspective of the world legislators to come down here. Sessions over let's just stay at 5. Who can they socialize with no one we criminalized everything. We have taken McCarthyism which we despised in the 1950s guilt by association. special interest groups Bob strollers for special interest group you are a special pick for his group. But we use that phrase and attach it to those interest. We don't particularly care for Democratic Society that goes beyond our quote rights now, what was the second part of your question? alma mater I think it would be very careful about that. I'd personally have always found state government to be quite open and you may respectfully disagree. I found you operating very close shops is just another example of where you want to close off. The Public's right to know how you operate. So you is an interest group Everclear vested interest in protecting your sources how you conducted the investigation but yet you want access to everything that we do well government has passed laws that restrict that writes just as we restrict all other rights and we can debate from here to Kingdom Come whether it's any good the law that governs the bulk of our information flow is called the data Privacy Act. But the fact is it is the law. And as Governor, I can't break that law. So that does restrict your right to know now, let's decide as a society whether or not that's reasonable. Let's just say for the sake of discussion. I'll be beating at home by your husband. And you went into a shelter. That was a public shelter. Does the public have a right to know your name and address? You would argue. Yes, the legislature would argue. No, you don't have that right that the woman has that right to privacy. So you're always going to get into that tug and pull and what the industry May well want to do cuz I know you got problems with the data Privacy Act. I believe our task force has media participation my correct Jackie. Participate and see what the passport comes out with. I think it's a reasonable approach. It will always be a balancing act. Governor what improvements would you suggest in journalism education? I am not in a position to comment on the education of of a journalist that mean that sincerely journalism go back if you will. To the days where there was just a mensch trust. I mean that sincerely where there was a separation from the activities of The Newsroom relative to the advertising circulation Etc. And where there was a profound belief that we are in the business of disseminating news really protecting the Public's right-to-know certain types of events that occur that participating in the events what reporting the events and the both of us were over 50 or over 60. We look back to the lot of nostalgia with the Walter what we believe in Walter Cronkite. When Cronkite show at the announcement of the death of President Kennedy, we all cried. There was trust I think you got to ask yourself the question. Why has the trust level gone down so much. In the LA pole in the Los Angeles Times poll International Pope only 17% believe the media is doing a good job. Those poll ratings are even worse than my worst ratings and believe me. I thought they were low. So there is a problem. I think your question is Jermaine. I would like to see each segment of the industry sit down and start to talk about what is it that we can do to reconstruct the relationship with the public and those of us in public life. We're not isolated from it. We contributed enormously to the cynicism are political campaigns more often the Nock 10 to get away from the substance of the ocean. And we tend to get into the personalities. We got to be very very careful of that. And it's no surprise if we go out and we spend a considerable amount of money trying to destroy the reputation of our opponent. Some of that is bound to spill off on us and he's system as a whole and we should be careful about that very careful. Coming to Martin cast from NPR one thing. I really don't understand do though is the The Logical problem here. You've always been a defender of the the wisdom of the marketplace to seek out and reward excellence and yet you seem to be arguing that the public can be trusted to seek out and reward good journalism. Hazard some opinions it don't show up. I would argue that the television station with the highest rating has the least amount of so-called investment or reporting. I think there's a correlation but that doesn't take you off the hook in terms of self-improvement. And I think that's that's that's the fundamental point is what it is it that you can do to be better. And I think developing journalistic standards only fear. Just think of this and in all the time. I've been in office. I've never seen an editorial about why we don't have to understand why we have an adopted in that one. Just imagine. If we don't have any government, would you be saying about us? What would you be saying? What was my first my first order was a code of ethics? Imagine what you be saying about us if we have no coat on there that all no rules no regulation nothing. And even with the Murrieta rules regulations are there you still race questions about us. And I don't think it's terribly unfair to go back and I'm the mean-spirited way. But if there's nervous about the profession icons of our profession or nervous about us. What is it that we can do? To improve why is a Governor's going out of office? And that's seeking re-election again telling us that he has great respect for the capitol, press Corps, but enormous skepticism about the special investigations, which are designed to drive circulation and ratings. I think these are very fair questions and I honestly believe in trucking privately to members of the profession or do respect they do want Professional Improvement they do want protection from this drive towards profit. They do want some separation. I think they think they all benefit from it just as those in public office. We do benefit from having a clear understanding of what's right and what's wrong with shorts with what is within bounds? And what is outside of the I think boundaries are absolutely essential for each and everyone of us and I'm not suggesting the punitive way or anything else. I'm just suggesting in a way that is designed to restore faith in an institution, which I think is terribly vital to the survival of our democracy. We did don't come out from the premise that people hate the media. I don't hate them. I like the first thing I do in the morning run happy watch a separate question, but did your main question is that you are important and the more thoughtful you can be more accurate can be the more perceptive. You can be the more thorough. You can be the better you're standing in the community. It's a win-win. Well, listen, thank you all very much. I deeply appreciate and I wish you all the very best of Fortune. Thank you. But already Carlson speaking Saturday at a seminar sponsored by the Minnesota chapter of the Society of professional journalists. Well that does it for our midday program today. By the way, if you missed part of the governor's speech on the media Or would simply like to hear what he had to say simply like to hear it. Again. We will be rebroadcast in his speech at 9 tonight here on Minnesota Public Radio rebroadcast at 9 tonight here on NPR. Programming on NPR is supported by shandwick. Your company's reputation is an asset managing. It is the role of shandwick public relations. Tomorrow on Arma de programa Especial Main Street radio broadcast another to our Main Street special that begins at 11 then continues on until 1:00 tomorrow afternoon. First hour is going to focus on spearfishing the controversy over spearfishing will get an explanation of exactly what it is and what it means in terms of Native American culture and Where Do We Go From Here course, there was so much so much concern that one spearfishing began in northeastern Minnesota that there could be demonstrations in the rest that is not proving to be the case will take a look at the the issue of spear fishing at 11 tomorrow. And then over the noon hour are special focus on Native American issues will continue the second or the program tomorrow. We'll talk about Indian sovereignty. The special status that the American Indians enjoy and the United States. Just what does it mean to be a semi Sovereign Nation in the United States Main Street radio special 2-hour broadcast tomorrow from 11 to 1 here on Minnesota Public Radio Beacon of Hope you can join us or we run interesting Lupe's story in the news today will probably hear more about this later Microsoft chairman. Bill Gates had a big presentation today at the comdex spring computer show going to show off that new Windows 98 operating system. It's set to debut in June all systems. Go except I'll ask the computer crashed. Mr. Gates allows as how it's probably a good thing. They haven't start shipping yet. That's it for midday today Gary I can hear thanks for tuning in. Lorna Benson, Minnesota lawmakers are back at the Capitol Monday for a special session to help Warroad based Marvin Windows will have the story on Mondays All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio know FM 91.1. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a partly cloudy Sky 55 degrees at care W FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul the chance for some scattered showers, maybe even a thunderstorm at this afternoon with a high reaching the upper 50s 20% chance for a shower early this evening Sunny though tomorrow with a high near 60°.