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Paul Wellstone, Minnesota U.S. senator (D), discusses the latest in Congress. Topics include rescissions bill, balanced budget, defense spending, cuts, and energy renewables. Wellstone also answers listener questions.

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That was founded as taking a break for the 4th of July holiday been a busy year and Washington and Promises to get even livelier as the summer continues and turns into fall Minnesota Democratic. Senator. Paul wellstone is back in Minnesota for the week and has been good enough to stop by today to talk with us today about what Congress has been up to also to take your questions, of course Center. Thanks for coming by. Thanks for having me by the way, if I cough a little bit I've got some kind of allergy. So I apologize for that. Because I do put a question to me that I don't know how to answer. So I'm coughing as a way of delaying or snow strategy. Now, what's on the agenda? Are you going to give any big Fourth of July speech has old-fashioned the speeches. I think the people Minnesota will be relieved to know that I'm not you know, when I first came to send I might have told you this I did my very best to the debate. I'm going to rush the store. I did my very Bast spoke with his much eloquent as I could muster up and then and felt pretty good andI finished up in an older Center. I won't use his name came up to me. I think I will use the name. I think it was Fritz Hollings and he said that you remind me of Hubert Humphrey. I felt so proud and then he went on to say you talk too much to remember that anyway, she'll and I hopefully with our granddaughter going to be able to go to the range weather permitting cuz we're going to fly if we don't have time to drive up and get back for 3 parades tonight and then tomorrow of going to be in Delano parade and Apple Valley parade will be fun, you know week the parades are Minnesota's a big parade State you made a lot of people so it'll be less speeches and more just, you know, being out and about now Friday the last of the last day before the Senate to recessed you and Senator, Carol Moseley Braun essentially stop to vote on this rescissions bill. This is the one that would cut 16 billion dollars from current spending. Why did you do that? Well for a couple of reasons I Didn't Do It Gary without a lot of you knowSerious thinking because I knew people would be angry with me. First of all process of mean this was a deal if you will that was made late Thursday night and then the bill came to the Senate at 9:50. I remember exactly and 120 pages long and I realized right away that some of the things I had worked on that I thought was really important to Minnesota, especially the most vulnerable citizens in this state like on low income energy assistance, which is in you know, where a cold-weather state not to mention some of the education and job training there that some of the cuts had been put back in to this deal money that I had restored money in these areas. I had voted for the original of rescissions package of 16 billion in cuts. It was a close call for me, but I had voted for it. But then as a say late at night, they change it and then bring it to the Senate and I felt like I wasn't going to I don't know any other way to say it but I felt like I was going to be rolled. I didn't feel I just didn't feel it was appropriate for me just to sort of be silent Let It Go through I wanted to have a chance to introduce them.Listen to have the bait and that's going to happen when we get back because I'm going to insist on it. The second thing is I just don't see the standard of fairness as I said over and over again my god, there are some 330,000 people State should be more frankly more eligible to get this low income energy assistance. It's it's not more than $340 average Grand Prix year, but it means a lot to a lot of people families are usually about $8,000 the last lot of seniors people with disabilities a lot of children lot of Working Poor. What in the world are we doing cutting that for the folk third coldest state in the country? We don't cut any of the subsidies to the oil companies. We didn't cut any of the military contractors. I just don't see the standard of fairness just because people low-income people don't have the big bucks or don't or don't have all the power doesn't mean that they don't get represented. So I also I can tell you is that I can look at myself in the mirror. I mean, I'm I managed it that day to get the majority leader angry Center doll and the majority leader displeased and the president I guess.So I guess you could say that was quite a day. I mean, I'm not you know, that's not what I choose. But sometimes if that's what you know people listening if you believe in it, then you do it and you know what people are angry with you than they are but you have to sort of be confident about what you're doing and I I am I mean, I feel like I did the right thing. What about the announcement on Friday Friday was quite a day actually Sandra Gard Supreme Court Justices announcing that she was withdrawing her name as a monopoly for the federal court. Do you know why first well, do you know gender grams has basically not commented on this, you know, did he in fact opposed to the appointment know why he'd have to speak for himself. I mean, I I know that the White House the White House was supportive. There were many Republicans in our state that were I certainly was. I really believe that Justice carving would have been a wonderful really outstanding federal district judge, and and I think it'sReal loss but I wouldn't speak for you know a person to Grant you have to speak for himself now are the two of you going to try to get sit down together and come up with a mutually acceptable. I have recommended Jacktown Hyman and I think we'll hear very clearly a very soon about him and and then I will let you know in very short order recommend someone else and I would hope that centigrams would be supportive. It's it's this tradition of having a senator kind of blue slip for or say that they are going to object. There's not much I can do when that happens, but it doesn't happen in Minnesota, you know, usually and I don't think it's ever happened before and so I hope we'll be able to work together in the future. Would you be talking with him before you make your decision though, or are you just going to nominate somebody and then see if if I ever fly with him?I haven't made a final decision about that, but I will one way or the other but I intend to move quickly because this federal district court is to judge a short because judge Murphy of course now is on the court of appeals. So we need to get these positions filled. These judges are are very much overworked shattergard to bring so you said on Friday in the current climate she wonders whether anybody can be nominated and approved and everything. Would you agree with my well, it's I'm told that it's getting there has been problems with any number of different people that have been nominated from around the country with different Senators saying, you know blocking it or say no I I don't know. I think it'sYou know my own view is and now I'm moving away from the situation with Justice card. Bring him again. I just will tell you I think she would have been a great judge great judge and I thought I think you know, I think it's a real loss for Minnesota the more general climate moving beyond Justice card. Bring I think is go back to Doctor Foster. You know, I thought the most unfortunate thing about Doctor Foster was it we've now come I think to we are dangerously close Gary to a point in the kind of history of our country politics wise where it is sort of do anything to win if you if you if you go after people if you can destroy him to win do it and I think when Republicans do that is reprehensible. I think when Democrats do it, it's reprehensible. I think we just somebody somewhere sometime somehow. I hope it starts with Minnesota is just got to say enough of this it taking us know we're good as a nation taking us nowhere good as a nation at all.Scott to mirror online from Eden Prairie. Are you thank you earn income tax credit. And what is going on in Congress related to the earned income tax credit or eitc eitc program. Scott is is really an important if you will kind of economic Justice programming and what it means is that those people who have not made enough money that that that its taxable that they're there for eligible for a credit become sore like a negative income tax. Those people are low and moderate-income Below $27,000 get an Earned Income Tax Credit, they get a credit anyway, which which is the way it should be what is now happened in the budget proposal. Is that a part of the Earned Income Tax Credit has been cut back and therefore what happens is if people who were going to receive this or not going to receive it by the same token, and you know, I won't be shrill.Or bitter or sarcastic but I will say that I think it's just outrageous that the proposal now that 245 being a tax cut in the main go to the most affluent the highest income citizens. And if you're up in the $200,000 range, you do really great, but the same token there's a cutting back of the Earned Income Tax Credit. So people actually are going to receive very little and in fact end up having to pay more if they have incomes of under $25,000 here is ridiculous ridiculous. And on this poor child tax credit if you're under $25,000 a year or that's a ballpark figure, you're not eligible because you don't have that tax liability so you don't get the credit. It's it's really it's sort of a if you will an inverse relationship to Dee that there's not much Justice to it. And by the way, I'm opposed to these broad-based tax cuts when you're trying to do deficit-reduction. I've always said that and I'm especially opposed245 billion dollars when you're when you're moving away from the earned income tax credit when you're when you got the you're making cuts and they are Cuts in the student loan program and I think the Medicare Medicaid I've said it over and over again as a healthcare center is not going to work policy why you can't you can't cut take 4.7 billion out in Minnesota Medicare and 2.7 billion in Medicaid. It is not going to work for the beneficiaries. It's not going to work for especially the hospitals and caregivers rural communities. And in the metro area, I will just tell you people going to pay anyway because the providers are going to ship the cost. That's exactly what they will do because they're going to have to do it another words when the Medicare reimbursement is below cost of providing care. They just going to shift it to the to the private insurance. And then the insurance companies are going to raise the premiums and then the employers are going to continue to drop people from coverage. That's where we're heading. I'm introducing a bill when I get back should be fireworks. I'm introducing an amendment when we get back. Not sure which bill yet which essentially says given what's now going on in healthcare? We should be going back to healthcare.We should make a commitment that by the end of the Congress. We passed a health care Reform Bill that contains cost and provides people in the country with a good coverage is what we have is senators and representatives. I you heard that last, I'm forcing a boat on it if people want to vote no, let him vote. No, but you know a lot of my colleagues whom I like they don't have to worry about Medicare or any of the rest of it either they don't have to worry about it cuz of their own economic resources are because they have gray coverage because of what we have to do the federal employment benefit package Center. If you don't go to where the money is with the with the Medicare program in Social Security for that matter of Medicaid and so on. How do you where do you find the money to balance the boys? I loved that question. First of all, I have always said as you will know on this show and everywhere been consistent some people but they consistently wrong but consistently I think 2002 is a political date. I think it's a huge mistake. Nobody ever told me how Democrats included they were going to take 1.2 or 1.3 or 1 trillion dollars out of this economy without not only I thinkCreate an economic contraction and Gary. Please note that right. Now. It's very unclear as to where our economy is going as to whether or not we are going moving toward a recession and second of all, I've always said you're going to flick widespread pain among the lot of citizens many of them can't tighten a belt Alternatives. I wouldn't make 2002 the day never have thought that would make with credible. And in addition. I would go after corporate welfare. And I will this is not just a show. I have 7 hours Reserve with Bill Bradley and Russ Feingold when we get to the bill that really is the spending the reconciliation Bill where you get down to the specifics and I'm going to zero in on all these subsidies the go to oil cold. Tobacco pharmaceutical companies you name it and I'm going to say with these loopholes these deductions these giveaways these people should be asked to tighten their belts joint tax committee says that we have that these quote expenditures amount to 425 billion dollars a year. I'm not telling you all of that can be cut but I'm telling you just because they have the power. Why isn't that on the table for god's sakeSecond of all the military Pentagon budget, there's no reason why that budget can't be cut a hundred billion dollars. No reason over the next seven years that proved people to Brookings Institute of said The more can be done that makes no sense at all in the day and age we live we can have a strong defense but some of what we're spending money on I give you examples make no sense in third of all the alternatives to Medicare and Medicaid would be system-wide Cost Containment with universal coverage. And the way you have system-wide Cost Containment. I'm not even talk about the single-payer plan. But the Congressional budget office told us this last Congress people going to have to face up to this. I've said this to Pete dominiczak who's a good friend you are woke you will have to put some limit on trick company premiums you have to take into account inflation and population. But if you don't have some system-wide cost-containment, it's like jello, you push one piece Medicare Medicaid you hurt the beneficiaries and the cost of shift. So I'm I'm ready to lay out the Alternatives then I will do you think there should be a firm date if not 2002 than another.Sherman talks about 10 10 years. Now. They have it from that. I have always thought I have always thought that the dates that have been laid out or unrealistic and you know from my point of view. I think you could do it much more on a responsible economic policy and steady Pat if you maybe you know, we should take the Baby Boomers like myself than you know, when I'll be 65 and many of us will be, you know, we're looking at Social Security and Medicare and all the rest 2010 and saved by that time. You got to have a balanced budget. Maybe we can do it earlier, but I could take if I could take I'm going to make sure my arithmetic is good here 535 people in Minnesota 435 for the house random sample a hundred for the Senate and they come up with a lot Fair budget. They wouldn't come up with a budget that had tax cuts for the wealthy.Didn't do a darn thing about the military contracts the Pentagon budget raise the Pentagon budget and in addition didn't didn't have Universal cover for system-wide Cost Containment and instead targeted Medicare Medicaid student loans Child Nutrition programs, which people need to talk about cuz it's going to be serious consequences public radio public TV. You name it? I'll bet you that if I randomly to bring together 535 people Minnesota, they come up with a budget that would be much fairer in terms of where you make the cuts and you want to know why because they would be less susceptible to the folks that March on Washington every day that are out in the ante-room outside the chamber who have all this power they protect well companies have just done fine. So Co Company sell tobacco companies, don't you and Company so if pharmaceutical companies you want me to go on I canNext question burn your up Social Security recipients 65 to 70 are allowed to make $11,100 over the amount to get on Social Security and there are people have to work even with the Social Security like yeah, and they did the House pass the Bill colors called HR 12:15, and they raised it to $30,000 and now it's in the Senate to say no and there are two senators a lot in the teen a lot of Republican from Mississippi and McCain a republican from Arizona. They have two bills a lot to build. This is 31 and McClain's is az251. What do you have planned? How do you plan a board on this yourself? When it's when the Senate deals with? This is going to be at John McCain in particular has been very active on this.It'll it'll be I will vote if I think it is fiscally responsible and it will and it will not add to the deficit then I think I will want to definitely go for it. If I think and it would be a tough vote that is a matter of fact giving everything we're doing that is just going to take it's going to be additional Revenue that we're then going to lose and we have to make it up somewhere else and it looks like we're we're making it up as cutting Child Nutrition programs and I have a more difficult time. I have to see the the overall framework, but I would want to vote for it and making sure that it is especially if it would help those senior citizens who are in the toughest Financial shape. That's what I'd have to know about drunk and I do want to tell you since you raised his question that and I'm not trying to get you to like me or just like me but part of what's been tricky in this debate isYou would think that most of the income profile of elderly people is very high income. It's not I mean the mean income for a male. I think it was 65 years and over is about 16004 a woman. It's about 8,000. So it's not in a Minnesota. We're not talkin about necessarily a high-income profile. So, I mean, I think we need to be very careful when we talked about again some of the programs Medicare Medicaid Social Security you name it? That's not to say that they can't be changes. That's not to say that you can't do better example Medicare I would mean test Medicare in one respect in the part B part on the on the supplemental coverage to Medicare. I mean there is a substitute the government pays. Well, I mean if someone has $100,000 a year in coming over there's no reason why the government needs to pay that but people should not assume that a lot of seniors have incomes of $100,000. / they don'tJim is up next to Hazard. I guess the first I wanted to give you a compliment as a conservative. I'm I think one of quite a few conservative to really do not support this Constitutional Amendment for the flag. I consider it and hopefully it won't pass the Senate but the other thing I wanted to bring up was I think eloquently you speak out against private monopolies and I think we all know that by and large in a monopoly you you get less chance of something you pay a higher price for it. I'm very concerned and quick National Education Association is nationally meeting here right now. I'm very concerned about the lack of success in our Educational Systems and I guess particulate. I'm worried about standards for you at the National Education Association has said has disapproved of standardized testing on a number of states. They're fit fingerprint roll all over the graduation rules that are passing in States like Minnesota and I just afraid that that they're afraid of a real kind of public accountability of standards and that's why I'm for school choice in that any number of things. What what you would would beFavorite try to do to make sure that that we actually raise academic standards. I appreciate the call and I appreciate what you're saying. And I think it's a I probably wouldn't quite agree with you. In fact, I spoke at the National Education Association Gathering today and everything you've said, but I'll tell you first of all. I will the flag that's a very painful issue for me because I really have really been proud of work with the veterans community. And I I really want to be respected and liked by people whom I really respected. Like we've never would never attempted to man The First Amendment of the Constitution. I don't think we should I hate the desecration of the flag. I honest to God hate it. I don't want to desecrate the Constitutional and I think it is a mistaken that'll be a difficult Beauchamp. But I I want I cannot support in good conscience. Let me just quickly in what's going to happen in this is going to be very close people going to have a tough time voting against this because you know, when the attack ads we're living in the day and age of attack ads, you know, you can get clobbered with attack ads on television internet in a campaign. But again, it's Jim would say to you, you know, you got to sort figure out what your principles are. Just stay with him and then you hope people will respect you for that on educate the second thing about what you said, and I know there are lots of people calling so I'll try and be quicker. I think Jim you got a good point. I think I think a fair criticism of me. Is that look Paul, you know, you are very critical of large corporations in Monopoly power, but in the public sector, let's decentralised. And I think you know things are too centralized think they're too bureaucratized and I think we do need to go to Morissette decentralisation. We do need to get things more back to the community level and the more I listen to people the more persuaded. I am of that and I think that I want to try and hook in my work Advocate more of that gym on the on the standard. The only thing I would say is I'm not opposed to standards at all and I'm certainly not opposed to getting back to more having parents more involved with teachers making more of the decisions together and school neighborhood schools and Community Schools and trying to move away from some of the centralization and bureaucracy only word of caution gym. If you if you have standardized test, what's 1/4 as 8/12 grade or whatever. Nationwide or Minnesota wide fine, but if you don't do anything to change the concerns and circumstances of children's lives before they go to school and when they go home from school and what happens to them in their communities, then my fear is and the and the tremendous and the huge disparity of resources between schools in more affluent Communities In Schools and less affluent Community. My fear is that we're just going to fail those kids again, if you follow me will give the test but we haven't done anything to ensure that they can do well on those tests. So if we do the both together, I'm all for it. But we have to do both our guest today Minnesota. Senator. Paul wellstone next caller is from Saint Paul Sean like a two-part question for you. Okay, what are the two key issues that are going to be most likely addressed and sent the next few years are going higher education and Federal. Research thanks. Well on I can be a little braver. I think that higher education there will be a tumultuous I think debate in battle over the proposed. That's what I think. I'm out to about 10 billion and higher ed. I don't have these numbers before Michonne, but I think that's about right in the particular issue. There is going to be it looks like it's not just graduate education law school medical school, which I think it's a serious enough problem, but also undergraduate where students will no longer get an exemption from the interest that they pee on their debt which carries a huge issue because most of it in the last 10 years. We switched it around from 2/3 grants to 1/3 loans to 2/3 loans and 1/3 Grant. So not having to pay that interest on it alone while you're in school. Is he a huge Plus for many students and I think that Sean will be a huge issue second of all, I personally be more positive would like to see there be more emphasis on the non-traditional students who become in the traditional sense that mean really are students are older many of them are going back to school many of them are balancing work and family and schooling and very there's not near the focus that there needs to be in terms of making sure that higher education is a 1/4 Hope for those students. I'm very worried about that. I was talking to some people from the NSF the other day and and also talking to people at the national student help. I think it's going to be real tough to hold on to some of the dollar some of the investment that we made in the research and I think not because you're on the other end of the line, but I think we're making a big mistake. I think it's myopic short-sighted. I mean this research really pays for itself over and over and over again. It's it's a wise investment, but I'm very worried about that to a certain extent were seen a real slashing in terms of Education Environmental Protection. And also I think our cultural apparatus the you National Endowment for the Arts the National Endowment for the Humanities in public radio in public TV. All of it is under Fierce attack, and I I think we're going to make a big mistake and I think I think people will realize it can I just say one thing and that's it the sort of the strategy is this is Washington language, but I think it makes sense that the the tax cuts are going to be front-loaded. The other cuts are going to be back loaded another words people aren't going to let the first thing people going to see over the next year or two is the tax cuts, you know who's supposed to that and then people would like it. I mean, I think it's a mistake in terms of overall policy the Deep these cuts are back loaded because in all these areas they become more severe with with each passing year. So that really it's going to be more around 1999-2000 2001 where people going to see and I think people can say wait a minute. We made a mistake. We have a public or a national Community with responsibilities and obligations. We make a certain investment in our culture in our education and in our community and we got to continue to make that investment. This is a big mistake. I thought through your tax cuts were supposed to be what it is not contain. I guess they weren't they supposed to be contingent on the cuts themselves or if it's it's a giveaway the money to give away. The CBO certifies that the budgets project that that that the budget will meet its projections of balancing the budget. Okay. What for what one year they say that now they don't have to certified Beyond one year from now. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't depend upon recession depends upon a lot of things that can people can decide that they don't want to make some of the cuts. They said they were going to make and and and in any case understand no matter what that this 245 billion tax cuts mainly go into wealthy people. That's for sure. I can give you some figures no matter what a lot of these other cuts her to make up for that. This would be 245 billion dollars less of cuts. We have to make somewhere else. Okay, no, son of matter how you do it. That's the trade-off. That's what's up. It unconscionable. Back to the phone. So Bob, you're up next 258 billion dollars on the military next year. And of course the Republicans want to go and one better or more by spending 265 billion to 267 billion. I really don't understand how that level of spending can be justified in one other quick question hasn't the Clinton Administration really paved the way for extravagant military spending by basing its military budget on a threat assessment that calls for during the fight two major regional or is it the same time without the aid of our realized that realistic? No, absolutely not and I'm in I'm in disagreement with this Administration both in terms of its its projections Bob and also in terms of its budget proposal. I I was saying to get her earlier to me it is just kind of outrageous that The Pentagon the military contractors. None of that has really been looked at rigorously in terms of where we can make Cuts in the budget resolution. I proposed the small number cuz I forget what it was and couldn't pass and I I just think it makes no sense whatsoever. No sense whatsoever. We have good F what is an F-15 fighter plane? And we want to replace. I don't know that with a new with the new fighter planet to the tune of about 70 or 80 billion dollars over. I forget how many years B-2 bombers Star Wars and and for that matter one could raise questions about the amount of money. We're spending prepare, you know, defending some of our Western European allies against the Warsaw Pact that no longer exist. The problem is the problem is that the people who receive low income energy assistance of some of the students some of the people that are no naka have any funding for dislocated workers programs. They don't have the same clown that these military contractors have invited. These are my words is Dwight D Eisenhower. He talked about this and it's true. I mean we have this configuration of some of the large companies in the Pentagon and some of the bureaucracy and they all hold out of this and I think the president has made a real mistake in his budget proposal and I think the Republicans have to and it's just to me outrageous that there's no standard of fairness here. There should be Cuts in this area specially in the post-cold war. Given the who were the strong defense understand given the realities here in Washington. There was there was a report out of the Pentagon itself last spring as I recall which indicated huge amount of money has been wasted over the last 40 50 years in the procurement of the basic argument was we wouldn't we could save immense amounts of money and not in any way shape or form affect our military preparedness. If we simply reform the way these weapons were purchased and so on there is the procurement issue there. In fact, they have said that they don't even Can't even begin to audit. What's going on. Where's your favorite? Yeah. Yeah, we're going to but but above and beyond the pyramid waist the fact of the matter. Is there been a lot of people Bob called in about this but there been a lot of people that have been doing work on this is it said earlier Brookings Institute across the board of said my God, this doesn't make any sense at all. What are we doing spending this amount of money? What are we doing spending this amount of money now? Eric is on the line from Pine City. Morning, good morning, quick comment and ask a question about the your entry to politics at which deals with my comment. I'm in the healthcare industry and I have the unfortunate experience to witness Rod grams interact with family that he is unfairly institutionalised and he represents the Republican stance on Healthcare denial. Likewise Newt Gingrich who it is. Well known to have left his wife after finding out that she has cancer on the death-bed in the hospital these people represent the denial of citizens to healthcare and I am still incensed upon having the personal of my personal experience with Mr. Graham and I would like you to lay out a roadmap for the common man to become elected into office because these self-serving Amoral individuals need to be removed from the system and how would how would you get an average run-of-the-mill? You have a course of right to say whatever whatever you want to I you know, I personally probably would agree with your characterization of either either speaker Gingrich of centigrams. But I mean you you're entitled to your own view now going further long cuz I think what you're saying is real important about you know, how do people get representation. I mean, I I think Eric I've reached the conclusion that it's just going to become more much more important for people to become more engaged as opposed to disengage and I worried that people are just going to give up and say we want nothing to do with politics. Example less the seems to General Eric. This is for you. This is one idea that I think makes a lot of sense. I really think you know, all of this come home senators and representatives all the time and it seems to me that one of the best things citizens could do, you know letters are fine and phone calls are fine. But I think I need people for example take health care cuz they look we're really worried about where Healthcare is going. You said you were going to pass reform last Congress. You didn't there isn't Universal coverage many of us have no coverage at all. We want to meet with both Senators. You know what I mean? We want to we're going to call a meeting and you were going to put in the central part of the state, you know where ever since a Saint Cloud and we would like for you to meet with us and that way it's face-to-face and that way people can hold us more accountable. I like to see people back in the state kind of put together more meetings like that and insist that both Senators be there and ask questions of us. You know, what tell us what people what you think we should do and I think that's the best way to really turn up the heat in a good way and I think it should be done at Weatherby Healthcare or whether it be any number of other issues. I'd like to see more of that is law. Is it was as long as it wasn't, you know, I'd rather see it be more debate unless hate, you know sometimes but I do think it's important you've endorsed this plan which would call for a series of debates. Any response from the ER Republicans on that. No, not yet and I'll keep pressing. I I think that the Star Tribune this is really made a huge contribution. I think Minnesota could be the Talk of the Nation and and this is what we should be well known for cuz it's part of our past this proposal for people are listening says and they said well, how about starting with the senate race and I said, I'm ready this proposal essentially says the candidates agree on Lincoln Douglas debates, and I think we could do one in each congressional district. We could start out the Minnesota State Fair Lincoln Douglas debates me real free-flowing debates and and also different people different parts of state to come up with their own ideas about about how people could come in and I and having the media really cover this at So-called on the media to become more interested in the subs into vicious and it's also challenges people in the state to become engaged in it. Now in exchange for this the candidates have to agree not to do if you when we do ads we have to turn to the TV Camera do them ourselves. We can't have Willie Horton type stuff, you know subliminal images that sort of trick people and I think that would be great cuz you get away from some of the vicious personal attack politics Those ads would be less expensive campaigns would be less expensive and you'd have the real debate I have said yes, and now hear this is a little bit Gary self-serving. I'm sorry, but most incumbents don't want to have the debates you right cuz we use but I'm ready. I think I say great. Let's do it and let's get rid of all the the attack at the mall for work. And I said I want to do it. I hope everybody will sign on and whoever my opponent as well. And I'll keep insisting on a two because I think it's the way to go. Mike your question, please. Sure. And I'm mr. Sikorsky sponsored or talk to federal government into backing the Indians on a 1837 treaty dispute with the state of Minnesota. What's the 18th? What what what are you talking about? What are you talking about? The discrepancy herbs challenge if you will from the Indians Beka on the fishing rights at the state level. My understanding is that you and mr. Sikorsky then I got this from a mr. Rooter mocker from the state legislature if you will Lobby or however you want to put it to get the federal government to back the Indian. That's not true. I'm only speaking for myself. It's not true. That was a that was a state are we talkin about that was a United States Circuit Court of Appeals decision wasn't right. I think he was referring to the federal government's position in that case. No, I didn't file a friend of court or whatever. Like, I don't know actually what you're referring to a man. I didn't file any friend of the court brief her or anything at all. I don't under talk to anybody in the United States Circuit Court of Appeals. What do you think about that? Drummer, you know what the legal merits of the hole that the that the arrival of an agreement, you know, when I think the governor was pushing for some kind of an agreement and I was hoping it wouldn't go to the court because I thought that you know, I think it was pretty predictable that this would be the court decision and I still think there has to be some way of bringing people together, but I don't know you don't but Mike is I don't even remember any I don't even know what kind of contact I Could Have Had Gary. I mean, I'm trying to figure out Mike, you know, what you can do is if you want me to you can also call our office and I'll check to see whether or not there was any involvement that all but I I don't I don't remember any Kevin your question, please I Miracast my regards energy and of course, it's important to our society and makes it all possible. I'm wondering if the sender could please expand on the consideration that renewable energy and energy conservation could easily because Incredible Economic Development opportunities. You want me to take the next 20 hours and then I love your question and I think that every time I hear people say that word energy-poor State eyesight. I think I want to kind of shout out. No, we're not we're energy-rich State. I mean, you know, it's today is a beautiful day July 3rd, but I mean during the winter when we hear about windshield wind get it, you know, we had a lot of wind that we can harness. We've got a lot of stuff, you know, we've got biomass to electricity huge rural Minnesota potential we have ethanol week. We have saved energy efficient energy use we've got all sorts of possibilities and I really believe that the renewable energy is the future problem is that this gets back to same issue we talked about earlier if you do a poll and I remember a couple years ago the energy Department did this is when President Bush was president, And I think like about eight 75% of people said that they were for efficient energy use and Renewables. But something happens when it comes to the decisions that are made and I still think that the large are producers the large industry people have way too much power. So we continued to rely way too much on a while and way too much on colon still way too much are nuclear power. I mean, it's not that I think that the future is going to be a mean some we're going to need to rely on some of that but the future is going to be Renewables and it should be tied with clean Technologies has small business opportunities. And I think that's that's going to be very important in Minnesota where a cold-weather state Gary where the other end of the pipeline and for every mcf of natural gas. We import or barrel of oil we import we export dollars big time. I don't know what are energy bill is but it's huge. So the more we can develop our own and digital sources of energy the better off we are we keep Kaplan our state and we can come over Minnesota tractable doumbek retractable Who's Next barber? He's giving us the capital and thank you for the the time for the police questioned. My first question is regarding in regards to taxation Social Security disability income which is lumped the taxation of disability income is treated the same as social security income, even though the two situations are very different and in the case of a married couple where one person is The Stables and the non disabled spouse is employed. Once you work through the IRS form 1040, you put a quickly puts you in the category of quote on quote high income seniors because of the earned income and I will be satisfied with a 2-2 sentence answer to the first question is my main concern but it was the show last night 60 Minutes on Channel 4 and it race it has some interesting. Richard the Congressional retirement program and they indicated they felt with the need for reform. I was wondering what your impressions of this issue was the taxation of disability income. I I certainly thank you for saying that to me in it. It it sounds to me like it's sort of one of those examples again of every time you try and get a dollar a head then you end up getting behind and I would really again if we're talking about a family that's you know, hard-pressed. I I think that's a mistake and I would like to focus my attention on it since I work closely with people with disabilities Community. I think that the pension right now is indefensible. I'm going to work with dick Brian who has a major piece of legislation to reform it. I don't even know if I'm vested yet. I haven't been there very long, but our are my understanding and I'm not the expert yet. But my understanding is that we get entirely too much and I don't think it should be anything above and beyond what you know, most of the people get in the country in. I know that the Senator Brian from Nevada is going to have a sweeping pension reform bill that's going to really deal with Which Wich what I think are abuses is your plan to ban gifts pass that comes up later. This month comes up has to be on the floor by July 28th. I can't believe it's been two years and I've been working on this path before but then later on been blocked. I don't know. I think it it'll pass in some kind of form. My big concern is whether or not it'll be what people would consider to be real reform where you really do band The you know, the meals and the entertainment of the trips paid for by lobbyists, which we should just let go of or whether something is passed. But but it's but there are a lot of loopholes, you know, and I don't know which way is there that which way it's going to go yet. I mean, there's a group of senators that are beating right now with an alternative and if that alternative is pretty much in the same direction, right? I'm willing to work with people. I like to get it passed. It's some big and run around the whole thing. We're not talking about the way about coffee or in fact, we've been having in this bill, you know, we say anything under $20 is fine Minimus, but we're talking about some of the abuses in so I'm hopeful it's a very sensitive issue. I cannot believe how angry people get about this, you know in in the in the Senate but I think I have a good chance and I also think I'm going to be bringing out with a twinkle in my eye some campaign Finance reform Amendment send some healthcare amendments and a bunch of other amendments. This could be in the store. I should be very interesting. Carbon your next place to question and situation in here a little bit of the Senator's comments regarding the apparent in action and inability for someone to step out and take the lead for the situation. I am thank you. And I don't know Corrigan whether you read yesterday. It was I think a piece initially in the New York Times. It was reprinted in one of our newspapers out of the Pioneer Press with a Star Tribune just just on the bottom and shelling of indiscriminate murder of citizens. It's just a nightmare, you know, a couple months ago. I was a little bit misunderstood. I don't mean this in a whiny way but in one article they've been written it look like I was supposed to lift in the arms embargo. I'm not but what I have been saying is understand that if that Happens this war could become yet even a wider war and there could even be more people killed and don't assume that Sarah is going to be a Level Playing Field in the question is do we just wash our hands of it then? I'm not sure we can that's all I've been trying to say. I think it will be pretty difficult not to lift the arms embargo given the situation right now with the UN forces which are not able to do much at all. I don't know why NATO I don't understand it. I wanted going back almost three years now, I guess for NATO to do really all out aerial bombing of the serbs. I thought we needed to do that. I thought we needed to pick it up militarily. I still feel that that needs to be done. But that if that's not going to be done and you're not going to have the United Nations forced. They can do anything that I think they're going to have to either they can do something in their reinforced and they can make a difference or if they can't and I don't think they can then I think they're going to have to leave and then I think you're going to have to lift the arms embargo and I've been think that's going to raise some questions to intern. Then what is going to be the position of the world and I'm not sure what that final answer is but I think right now the status quo is it's just intolerable the u.s. And Japan are going to improve their relations things going to get continuing or continue to get worse with the Japanese over these trade issues early everyday. It seems we turn around and there's a new dispute over. Is that or the other thing? I don't know. Actually, I guess I don't know. the answer It does seem like every every day there is yet another charge or counter charge and I haven't talked to you know, I should really call the Ambassador. No, seriously. I haven't talked with him. And so I don't want to be glib I don't know where it where we're heading with relations with Japan. I was so hopeful last week. It seemed like sort of an agreement to put off maybe the biggest part of the dispute the pub country seemed to be okay with it. But now we're back to to some real sharp disagreements again. I don't know where we're heading Carlisle your question. Please set for sharing your station on your thoughts and I appreciate the listening Center to wellstone. I admire your stands on so many issues. Keep up the great work. Thank you very much and I'm very concerned about this is the voyageurs national park. We are the Envy of the whole world as far as our national parks built and they're being Highly overstressed and here we are talking about maybe a relegating the voyageurs National Park to State Park status or state control it. What is your current view on this? And what can we do to ensure that the that voyageurs National Park that will stay as National? Well right now centigrams is has requested hearing up the International Falls and I think it's going to be sometime in late August on this question and I will go up cuz I want to listen to what people have to say. There's also questions that are raised again about the Boundary Waters and am I understanding also is that congressman vento is Is requesting that the be hearing in the metro area as well, you know, it's a Statewide issue and I think that would be appropriate. I mean, it's it's Lyle. The only thing I can tell you is that I do think that there is a distinction to me between you know, people saying in Northeast Minnesota look this this isn't working the way it should and I've worked with a lot of people Boundary Waters issues and sometimes they're absolutely right up in Northeast Minnesota. When I think the government has just been too arbitrary but there's a difference between fixing things and you know as opposed to just completely change the equation in and so I would look for some balance and I don't know what is going to happen with this, but I do think that you know, we've kind of treasure our parks in our lakes and rivers and streams. We're a strong conservation estate. I think we need to continue to do so, but I also think and I'm not trying to Waffle. I mean this sincerely I think that the people in Northeast Minnesota need to be Ramen and their voices are important. Hopefully, you know people can come up people can talk to each other in there can be some balance and things won't go too far in the extreme. We got time for one more Collard Brian. Oh, yeah. Hi Center High. Well, by the way, I'll tell you a Republican who's very strong environmentalist. Who's going to be Keith Bryant in that Senator John chafee from Rhode Island. We got a bill coming over from the house that I called the dirty water bill not to clean water bill this horrible sore and Estelle rageous and chafe is very much opposed to it. We got a bill on the floor. Gary said what's coming up next week just called regulatory reform which witch is which is going to create so much bierocracy and so much hurdles on cost-benefit analysis that he could wipe out a lot of Environmental Protection and I think again sun or shade 31 the people that's going to Ray Charles questions about it. Let me tell you I am because that's where I'm thinking about doing some of my campaign Finance reform amendments because when I look at who wrote the Bill and I look at the influence of the industry on SI, I really wonder so I think that in the Senate we have a much better chance of taking some of what's past the passing the house, which is very extreme by The Way Way Beyond what people Minnesota believe and we love our lakes and rivers and springs were strong environmentalist 8 and I'm hoping that at least in the sand of time we can really make some changes for the better and I think there will be some Republicans that'll be a part of this battle and I think John chafee will be one I think ship Jeffords from Vermont will be another and I think there will be some others as well. And I I'm an environmentalist Senator intend to be fight very hard on this last question for you sooner a quick one filibuster seems to cut both ways. You can both parties in the Democrats case. For example, you saw you didn't get a bowl. Foster's nomination then on the other hand while you were unable to use it to slow down if that's Opera. Should they drop the filibuster Rule and let the let the sun just take straight up and down both know I never was a favor of that. I I just said that I think it's been abused and used on every small issue all the time. And I don't think it should be used on every single vote in case the Foster by the way. I don't know that it had been used any time in recent history. I'm forgetting or in in relation to a presidential nomination, but I just think you've got to you know, when you feel strongly about something and you think it's an issue a conscience or then you can come out the floor and do it. No, I don't think it should be completely abolished never thought it would should be but I just think it should not be abused and you know, that's part of the Senate is And I have said this pretty consistently have a pretty stringent standard. I like not to vote against cloture. But if it's the major issue then that I think that it is appropriate. Thanks for coming by. Have a great weekend and holiday here and the rest of the week will thanks for having me on I hope I didn't filibuster the show today.

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