Many politicians fade rather quickly from view. Once they leave office George Latimer. However is an exception to that rule. Now. It's true that Latimer served five terms is the mayor of st. Paul longer than anybody else but Latimer never held Statewide office only time he ran for governor. As a matter fact, he was trounced. He hasn't held elective office since the 1980s and he now has a fairly low profile job with the Department of Housing and Urban Development down in Washington yet public opinion polls consistently find a George Latimer River remains, one of the most popular politicians in the state of Minnesota. Minnesota is apparently still like what he has to say and or how he says it last week Latimer was back in St. Paul to give the keynote address at the Landmark series for him on a new American. Agenda Latimer is Hudson director of the special actions office having a small staff that promotes non-traditional public-private Partnerships. His speech was billed as a policy address on hugs plans to help.Rebuild the city's but it turned into much more a largely extemporaneous discussion of America's problems and some possible solutions to those problems here is hot official and former st. Paul Mayor George Latimer. The last time I was really privileged to speak as I am speaking today occurred back in 1983, when the then president of Macalester College John Davis who has done more for our communities in retirement than most of us have been able to do in in our careers John Davis call me up in 83 and it was a year of my daughter Faith was going to graduate and he said this is face graduation year. I said I would know it well and and my my creditors know it as well and he saidWe are going to have as a Commencement Address speaker Studs Terkel. And I did what you did. I said nothing like who cares and why is he telling me? He said mr. Turkle has declined. And you are a second choice. And I was delighted to be the second choice and I thought harder about that with my first child graduating college for the first time 25 years after Nancy and I graduated you couldn't help but think what is this about? Who am I and what am I doing here? That was the kind of time it was and I thought hard about it and I must tell you I won't stay in the same remote, but I must tell you when I thought about where we've been at the country and what my part of it and growing up in our country was I look back at the formative forces of my Generations lives. And what did I come up with what I came up with the same thing. You would come up with number one. The Depression was a powerful force for many of us and the War II World War shaped our views of the world and thirdly family shaped our lives in very poor. Alpha Waves as I said before, I mean family in the real effective sent not any syrupy romantic way, but in the way that Robert Frost referred to in The Hired Hand, when do you remember the farmer said that he didn't want the Hired Hand to come back is too old to work at farmer's wife said Silas has come home to die and he said home. What do you mean home? He's no kin to us and he said home. She said home is where when you have to go there they have to take you in and that's what I mean about how family drove the culture we grew up in in the thirties and forties and fifties not in a romantic sense. But in the sense that it absolutely was a powerful force in our lives and after the war what more can be said that if it were not the quote good War by as a book of that name would have it. It was a just The necessary war and it was a war that unified our country. It was a war with all the terrible prices that we paid. We also came out of it stronger then we went into it and I think we can say that again with historical accuracy and that has to our economy the depression. What do we learn those of us who grew during that. We learned that to be poor would not finally kill you. or our society as who is it in the filler on the roof said it's no disgrace to be poor. But have no great honor either. Well, that's the way we felt. It wasn't any disgrace but wasn't a great honor. We just don't get out of it, but we weren't going to lose our national Soul on the way and so we survived and so here we are in a new age and the age of our children and for some of those lucky people are grandchildren. And what have they got? What are there cultural memories that drive and shape their view of the world. Will they have a war? All right, but it was the Vietnam War. And they have an economy that buy all external appearances has been more productive than ever and yet for those of us who live in it. And for those of us who try to work in it. It's a volatile constantly changing very traumatic place to be and we all know that to be true as well. And then finally so much has been written about the American family and the changes in the traumas suffered it that I'll just simply say that speaks for itself. Small. I believe they're powerful forces, even though you may not read about it when you read about the way we act toward each other in today's paper or in tomorrow's paper. I believe they do for CPAP. After those changes occurred came coincidentally and reflective of those changes that I referred to a number of institutional and technological changes that forever altered our lives and the one powerful force of course is television. Another is almost to Cable ization of the American attention span. Think about that Neil Postman wrote a book called amusing ourselves to death and in it. He talked about the electronic Revolution and the way we think differently than we used to because of the collapse and the change of grammar driven by imagery replacing the syllogism in a declarative sentence in the way that we were taught and read and learned and so all that has shaped us and then beyond that were reliable have virtually disappeared. I lost your influence. I should tell you that the first job I had was as a construction laborer and I belong to the labor union local 187 of the hod carriers union in Schenectady, New York and at that time and 1953 34% of the workforce in America belong to unions. And I won't surprise any of you know, who know me to know that I am unabashed about this issue because of the problems that labor has had over the years have been some questions about what it's real contribution. I can only tell you that now with only 15% of the workforce is represented by unions Economic Security is much less than it once was and I would submit it's not unrelated to the demise of the labor union representation highest, but as has been pointed out we are still producing. About the same percentage of our gross domestic product is being produced in manufacturing. But only about 10% of the people needed to do that producing. That's what happened. Not that we don't manufacture. It's at the Blue Collar manual working classes are both not doing as well and not needed as much and not anywhere the numbers they were during the thirties forties and fifties during the. Of prodigious manufacturing growth in this country. If those statistics make your eyes glaze over let me give one that will not run Park is here from the Pioneer Press and he can check out a number. I'm about to give you my friend George fix yourself brother Jerry ficociello. In 1963 join. The Pioneer Press is a printer's apprentice and he was last in seniority and the number they had was 395 such trades people at the Pioneer Press. Today Jerry. Ficociello is still there Jerry ficociello and his 30th anniversary year is now third and seniority and you know how many peers he has in his trade and who run that whole newspaper Run Park things he does, but he doesn't they do. 38 people run that 200 million dollar plant. You don't need to read volumes to understand what's happened to Blue Collar work opportunities. Remember Jerry ficociello and then start to apply that to what it means the kids would like to work now or young people coming out of school would like to work now and that kind of trade at what that does to what work is about the diction of that. We have a lot of folks just like you what do you mean by that? I mean those of you who are 20 years younger than I am and if you're professionals you're in the anxious class in which your what was Robert reisch. It's called the anxious class in which you're well trained and well-educated well paid and you're mighty worried. You're wondering what the next downsizing and right-sizing and changing over and changing plants and changing locations and changing countries. Changing economies and changing product. So I'll product life is now 10% of what it was just five years ago and that's doing a tremendous amount of churning and you all know in your personal life people with qualifications and energy and desire to do something and who simply are the products of that kind of displacement. Let me suggest there is a third new population. It began to be called The Working Poor William Julius Wilson, probably because he is not only a scholar but he is African American. Was not too shy to use the phrase under class. With a which is offensive to some people but there is a population which is growing in this country and it is called by some the underclass and who are they they're mainly young people they're not they're there plenty of more white, but they're disproportionately people of color. They probably have not gotten out of school and probably don't plan to and they probably have nothing in their life that gives them any reason to hope that there will be a job down the line. And in fact, they're not really any longer in the public conversation if you will and that's what's happening. Now. I'm not suggesting that the numbers are equal to the number. I'm about to give you but I'm about I do want to say that sit there about 17 million Americans right now living in neighborhoods with high over concentration of poor people and from that environment. Breeds, the growing number of discontented underclass unrelated to our economy or our society. It is real it is growing. We better pay attention. What else is new? well Politics and government, you knew I'd get to that didn't you? Are we surprised? That the politics are today are fractious. Our confrontive are non accommodating. At best I don't want to betray myself as a Democrat at best. They're mean-spirited and a twister mindless too often too often. So that you hear a public Dialogue on the floor of the Congress? Which you wouldn't have permitted. In a gymnasium at a neighborhood meeting. And I hear the insults and the diatribes and I yearn for return of hypocrisy. I yearn for the day we can again call the worst enemy in the most despicable scoundrel on Earth the distinguished gentleman from another District. So the whole public dialogue is starting to reflect in politics and government the kind of reflection of the fragmentation of our society. All right. Are you gloomy? have hope I have another 20 minutes. Okay, that's that's a real quick summary of what some of the threats and I haven't spent any time talking about the prodigious successes, but I think we have reason to Hope and I I know we have reason to Hope let's talk a little bit about Minneapolis-Saint Paul and it will get more into that. I am sure as we get into our conversation. Are we different? Are we a lot different from what I just described? What do you think? Well, that's the end of the talk if you are agree that. Well that that means I only got three minutes left. Nancy weirdest off the happy ending that we had we we had a happy ending and then we had the other one. That's right. I don't think we are. I think you know first of all. Numbers do matter I mean I think on the bright side it is not an accident. Then in the frost Belt states the frost belt regions metropolitan areas. I'm talking about places diverse and yet I like is Pittsburgh and Milwaukee and and Cincinnati and st. Paul Minneapolis that in fact, we're Far and Away they doing and you hear this every four years many buddy running for re-election. The best thing to do for the Chamber of Commerce is due running for re-election. All you have to do is just off all the natural numbers and we look great. And then you just leave it for the voter to connect up how great you're doing with the fact that you're there and ate, you know, it's kind of like the the rooster crowing, you know, and making sure the sun rose. So we're doing great and the fact is in in Broad National number is this is true and any serious person knows it we have done well for 30-40 years and that means that no matter what kind of political leadership we have if the economy and the society and the people are doing good things that we've been doing. Well through all kinds of efforts have leadership that it is it don't seem to be the same but they're quite different. All right. So, how are we doing? Well, we're 15% larger in the metropolitan region. Then we were I worked over some numbers. I I took this seriously, that's the reason there's a little duller than most of my speeches with the help of Michael Munson of the Metropolitan Council and Tom, Gillespie. Other state demographer and a couple of geographers like David Lanigan and John Adams. I Revisited a lot of the numbers that I thought I I knew but I'd like to share a few with you that that's the right number one while Pittsburgh and I'm talking to Metropolitan region has lost 7% of the population. We've gained 15% in Decatur. That's good news. The fact is as usual or unemployment is lower than most countries are the most communities and the fact is that I was surprised about this on several levels the affordability index for housing. We're about six best in the country and by that, I mean about 82% of us have an income that is equal to and makes it possible for us to buy a median value at home in this metropolitan area. That is a pretty strong number. But as you're here in a second as you know, it's not the end of the story. Because let me give you a couple of a couple of statistics and this next one. Intrigues me greatly and concerns me. Greatly. I remember in 1980 the unemployment rate in the two cities was five and a half percent. We're in the middle of doing that. If you remember all right employment in st. Paul with 5 and 1/2 and our poverty level population was 9 and a half percent. Today 10 years later. The unemployment is down to three and a half. That's good news. The poverty level has almost doubled to 17% The number in Minneapolis the same five and a half percent down to three and a half percent, but their poverty level has risen to 22% that one in five households Minneapolis or under the poverty line. Those you talk about numbers you can you can talk about what happened to these folks, but those numbers are starting points for analysis in my opinion. What does it tell you what I told you already about Jerry fit to sell? It tells you that more and more people are working and not making living. That's what it's about. I don't know about you, but I personally and becoming transformed by the reality that I see. And here is what I'm struggling with. On one hand, we know what works in communities to rebuild that sense of purpose and connectedness. We know what it is. I've been all over the country just to be told again what I knew anyway. I've been the East New York where Reverend Johnny Youngblood has served about 50% of the 2500 families that he is worth with have come out of public housing needs built housing for them for ownership with a zero default rate over about a 15 year. 2500 homeowners came in the most desperate poor neighborhood. You could possibly imagine Community Support counseling one-on-one relationship around that church. And we know that I see Ron Pauline here one-on-one one step at a time. I met with Ron Pauline how many years ago around 20 maybe more and he came and talked to me about garbage Pat Clans on his block. And I said what am I doing? I'm the mayor of a great City. I'm an important person and I'm talking to this guy about garbage pails on his flock member. He said if we had more garbage pails, it wouldn't be as messy. If it weren't as messy people would feel better about their homes. And besides a lot of other good things will happen. So he got garbage pails and lo and behold, you know, he was right that he talked about one house and he wanted to take over one house if you want to take over and turn it around. I thought why you can't turn over a whole neighborhood has one house but he went ahead and he worked at that level and then I go to Harlem and I meet with Karen Phillips at the Abyssinian Baptist Church, which is surrounded by desolation and I see this island of well-kept Brownstones being restored and recycled and I get the numbers and and I learned from her that with a $50,000 start four years ago. She has 50 million dollars worth of developing. I said Karen, how'd you do it? And I don't know if she knows about Pauline, but she did it the wrong Pauline way one house at a time one person at a time working together. And if you look at speak here with Reverend James baton that kind of work they're doing with a 50 million dollar commitment out of the bank in order to improve housing possibilities that you go to Dorothy Day Center you go to the Dorothy Day Center and the same people are serving the food as volunteers today were serving 10 years ago. I promised your dick long will be there. I promise you say Deez if we will be there. They're doing it everyday everyday 700 meals a day 5 7 days a week and it doing it and the Catholic Charities is there working with them, but that's not that that was that's the energy that's where it all came from the same Paul companies contributed to it the same Paul Foundation contribute the new belly. I was so proud of marriage viable when he said why shouldn't the Dorothy Day Center remain right where it is, and I'm delighted. That I live in the city where the poorest people can go into a decent clean well-shaped place in the middle of a teaming prosperous City and be treated like human beings. I'm proud of that. I wouldn't want anywhere else. I wouldn't want to go anywhere else. Are we going lost without him at the point? Where we cut almost apologized for things like that, so we know what works we know what works. One on one one at a time. One of the things I'm doing at HUD is I'm working with the Consortium for five foundations. They came up with 67 day and we came up with 20 million and working through 23 cities always through the Community Development Corporation. Always through the neighborhood based organization based organization. Not from the top down transformation. I know it looks like Dragon it is aimed at trying to move a monstrous institution into a into a responsive mode where folks devise our own strategies and I congratulate the mayor here. You got to you got an Enterprise Community designation. It is based on strategies and that you have developed and that's what we're we're trying to move. Okay, so we have that whole line of tradition of we know what works. It's got to be one-on-one. It's got to be painstakingly carefully slow and we understand all that and then on the other hand, we know that big government has deserved most of the rebuke that it has suffered and we know that big government is Clumsy and we know that they're dumping the mail in the wrong places and we know all about the mistakes and we think well, maybe we'll all do it right down here Grassroots homegrown Let's ignore the rest of the world. But somehow we know that the scale is kind of big to be ignoring what the nation we can do as a nation and we have that. I almost think it's as much of a moron. I don't mean that if you don't agree with me that you're a moral but there's a good chance. It's true. but know what I mean is this That however commonplace the observation. The truth is the nation is not suffering from lack of resources or lack of intelligence or lack of Goodwill. Or even lack of vision what we lack is the ability to trust each other. Through any institutions other than the next door neighbor and before you know it we're not going to trust the next door neighbor. We're losing of one thing that the tocqueville noted about us when he was here a hundred and fifty years ago in which he said that the and if I were really well-prepared I'd read the text but trust me he said this and he said the American propensity to gather together and unify and volunteer ways to solve their problems is unparalleled on Earth. That's what made us what we are and 150 years later a Harvard Professor told us again, and he he documented name is Robert Putnam an interesting essay called bowling alone. And you know what he concluded. I really do wish I had that. He concluded. That there are more Boulders in ever in America. And a total collapse of the number of bowling leagues interesting very interesting and his own thesis that I agree with and associations and successful Urban economies in Northern Italy and that's because it's just all got together and they bought it but what he concluded is that the business has succeeded because of the choral groups and all the rest that sounds so romantic but what he's really saying, is it the ability of people of different backgrounds and disciplines together around and associate with the most powerful driving force in an economy forget about also makes life a little bit more livable to be able to have those relationship. That's what Robert Putnam has to say. That's what we know to be true. And then we have this fear about big government. Let me just suggest that there are Be not a new idea there ought to be a third way, and that is look at what we have done as a nation with scale and vision and hope and self-confidence and maybe a little bit of generosity and get restored by that and have enough sense to know and not make make the mistakes in the past and have federal government delivering services to us, but I understand that the national commitment has to take off just a few some of you may remember remember the Homestead Act I went back and I visited that I went back and I visited that you had to be 21 years old. You had agreed to hold the land at least five years, and if you did you had a hundred and sixty Acres And what happened was two million families took advantage of that program in about a 10-year. And they built Minnesota. That's where it all started it all started. Then you move ahead and you go into things like things like how about the Federal Highway? I love this example because President Eisenhower called at the federal interstate highway and Defense Act. And if you remember he wanted to improve Commerce by stripping having all of the highways connected together, you know, but he also wanted the fence back because we could mobilize quickly in case of attack and it's it's worked beautifully. Let me give you another statistic. At the time that we made that commitment we had a domestic product of 1/2 trillion dollars. And the commitment that we made then that we have committed ever since then is equal to 25% of that. We committed 25% are gross domestic product the building that highway system in at work. Not only is Commerce better, but on the defense side, we have not been attacked by a single Russian and all those years. So But it did work and what about the GI Bill? What about the GI Bill literally millions of American? Getting into an educational system that would have been out of their reach 5 years earlier. I promise you and coming out of there and developing the most prodigious post-war economy that we've ever known largely through a large part by the very people that we were awarded by saying that if you're a veteran that's good enough and we're going to invest in you and it went ahead and did it and what about all the dirty Lake that were dead, but are not alive and we said we couldn't bring it back a national commitment to do that somewhere along the line. We had enough trust in ourselves as a nation to say that there is a national purpose here to invest in and we made it. so I've come up with a set of principles and I hope I'm doing great. I don't know how you're doing, but I'm practically ready to wrap up here. and I I want to it wouldn't have been as much fun if I had my notes. Let me let me give you five or six principles. And they're not perfect nor would I apply them in an idiot logical way? But I've just come to believe that some things rather strongly about how can we restore some sense of community? How can we give some purpose and some hope? to each other and I think there are some fairly mundane things that we're trying here in Minnesota and are exactly on the right path. Number one. I oppose Monopoly. I oppose Monopoly. It isn't big government or little government. It's inefficient. It's Monopoly that are inefficient. And so if whatever you believe in is being run by a monopoly take a look at it and and and it shake it up and give people some choices. Are the second thing I believe in is that nothing will count or work that is not formed by the people themselves were going to be served and by forging that also means that they've got to have something on the table of themselves know there are programs in which real poor kid. Do you know that the Boys & Girls Club which is a wonderful operation right here in st. Paul in a joint effort with a public housing. You know that you still have to come up. I think anybody know 50 Cent. I think it's 50 Cent or a buck four times a year. If you want to be a member of the boys club here. So it's nobody's in on a free ride. Everybody has a stake in the outcome. I believe in related to the point of the first point, but it's not the same the issue of subsidiarity. Subsidiarity a nice long word. That means do it as close to the people as you can whatever it is, you're doing Leo XIII in rerum, novarum in the 1893 refer to that and in the in the Bishops conference on the economy. The same point is again made I might say there's a fourth Point coming up and that also was referred to by the Bishops conference on the economy in 1985, which was chaired by Archbishop roach and it is this that while acknowledging that the free market is the most powerful engine in the world and what like knowledge in that for most of our people for most of the time that economy will provide hope and Economic Opportunity and even security for most of our people if they're well-trained and well-educated. That in fact we cannot permit ourselves our lives and our families to be nothing but subject to the account. That's an important thing. I've just said it's important to me. At least one thing is to recognize that the most productive economic force on Earth is a free market. But the other is to say that along the way they'll be lots of social needs and folks be left out in the cold and we are not liberated from caring about others by the fact that it's not our fault the Mark didn't and I don't think that when we leave church or synagogue or wherever and that your government that we ought to be embarrassed the introduced the notion of playing fairness decency and Equity with the way that we handle our wealth. Now, it doesn't mean that all my conclusions are the same as your conclusion. I'm just saying it has to be part of the public conversation. What's an old labor leader who used to say the dollar is got no conscience. I would add that. He was right in the sense that the dollar flies wherever will multiply but he shouldn't have ended there because the dollar doesn't have a conscience and we shouldn't we shouldn't apologize for the fact that business depends on tough-minded profit-driven motive to make it work. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what you call the Market, but it doesn't mean that people have no conscience. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't regroup and let me submit to you. I talked about the underclass then at the Civilian Conservation. Corps was created in the 1930s. If you'll forgive me, I'm going to see if I can get this is one quote. I want to give you. But before I read this number, I was talking about the underclass and William Julius Wilson. Cornel West on the issue of the predominantly or disproportionately black young male discontent and despair Said that the seeds of that despair or to fold. He said one is a lack of real Economic Opportunity that is visible to them. But secondly, he added something else and I think it's terribly important. He said the absence of self-love. Because I'm not a Marxist and never will be and I'm not a materialist unique and I'm a determinist. We know the power of poverty and how it can fragment lives. But we also know that the human element the sense of purpose and love can change that and we know that But what I am saying is that we're not offering those opportunity. So I'm saying that if you look at the whole economy and you look at how it serves so many of our people we can't have a solution that is simply a reflection of those of us are working full-time. We've got to recognize their their population that that need real addressing. Let me quote something to you from the Civilian Conservation Corps. These were young men in the 30s without work not graduating high school by everything. We know we're not in doubt very well. I was biking over and Phalen Park and I came by a little Cobblestone monument. That was put up by them in 1943. And this is what they wrote. He said we queried Limestone and granite and harvested Timber to be used in construction of buildings Recreation sites and Damned to improve quality of our Waters and land and then they rode we received respect a job and a purpose in life almost all our work and achievements were with hand tools. We put our mark on this line at land of the generation. We are proud of our achievement and individually, we are grateful for that opportunity you get a feeling that there was no lack of self-love by the people who wrote that. They did something that made themselves know that they were up some worth. We've got to give every kid in America that sense of self-worth and it doesn't mean that we've got to try to reshape the economy so that we can pretend that the economy is going to reach them because it won't the economy will not reach the underclass or the left out the way it presently sits. And therefore we have to go out and reach them ourselves. How that were made to be. So let me suggest one model could be something like the Civilian Conservation Corps, but it should be focused on Direct engagement of individual young people. Let me let me conclude. I haven't talked much about education. And I really should. Let me just end by folding. Jefferson and Keeler to Great founding fathers Because education is so important. You know when Jefferson died. He could look back good look anywhere after he died, but Before before it before he died. He was a great landowner. He was an ambassador and he was a president United States. And he crafted everything including his own Tombstone and when he wrote his own tombstone, he did not mention the presidency did not mention as well and he did not mention the fact that he's an ambassador. You know what I wrote your lies Thomas Jefferson. Author of the Declaration of Independence founder of the Articles of religious freedom in the state of Virginia and founder of the University of Virginia. He thought that the power of the Mind was more powerful than the power of politics and he wanted remember to someone and Garrison Keillor to conclude a said that nothing we ever do for children is ever wasted and I just think that we've got a long way to go back to their I think finally and clearly I'm not talking for anyone but myself now, so please strike the headline that says hot official. cause for radical reform Abolition of the Congress you getting this run? I know that we're not going to reach each other. through anything, but the kinds of block by block individual relationships that life depends on and I also know that unless we commit ourselves with a national passion a national will after a national conversation. To a commitment of our resources that connect up with our values and ideals but is administered closest to where the people are. I don't have any doubt that that kind of reformation is within reach that kind of Yearning I think is within all of us and I don't despair it all that far future. Thank you very much. Former st. Paul Mayor George Latimer speaking last week at St. Paul's Landmark series on a new American agenda Latimer is currently a high-ranking officials at the Housing and Urban Development Department of Washington, of course and following his speech. He was asked to comment on proposals to radically restructure HUD. I am one who believes that the present crisis however much of a cliche. This is the best thing that we can do for Reinventing the way we do things because the status quo was nothing to be proud of We had to change and therefore now, it's true that after the election. I told the secretary that he should be encouraged and inspired by the words of Doctor Johnson who said that nothing so wondrously concentrates the Mind as a prospect of a hanging. So and that and that has kind of triggered. Here's what I think. I think that the move toward giving public housing tenants choices is going to go ahead and may not go ahead and exact form it started at but for example, I see John Guzman who is unhappy and is in an unhappy in Washington today. He's ahead of our public housing in St. Paul and he and Fortune he's not here because he knows more than I do have a cat defend himself, but there are things that you wasn't like about it. But let me say this number one. You got to take the high-performing authorities like Saint Paul and some day of Minneapolis keeps at it maybe Minneapolis. It's dealing with the reality here can take the kid out of st. Paul, but you can't take Saint Paul out of the kid. We're going to give more discretion to high-performing Authority than they've ever had. There's no more going to be on National preference lifter. All of that other stuff rent reforms incentives to people at work all the rest of the built-in by the local Housing Authority with its own black man. That's going to be a breakthrough the creative ones like Saint Paul are going to do great the ones that aren't so great are going to be told that poor people because you're poor should not be forced to live next to criminals. They have their kids literally kids not leaving the tenement to go to school for fear of being shot of this is a Tragic Truth and and I'm very proud because it's a huge constituency not of people but a bureaucrat two opposing secretary Cisneros on this issue. I'm I'm proud of his courage to say that it is not liberal to say we're going to let that continue. It's not decent and he and they're going to be told and Senator bond is made this equally clearly Republican chair of the Banking Committee subcommittee in the Senate made it very clear that he would put them on a short leash and we would have receiverships in which people that would have vouchers and make choices and I think that's going to be an altogether healthy outcome. The second piece of the change is more block grants the block grant. Please use that carefully not block grant meaning willy-nilly no standards. No objectives no test at all. But rather some agreed-upon Benchmark that would be agreed upon by the local community and then you would be held to it in distributing the funding so that you make sure that the people under served in housing. In fact are served and not abandoned by the local or the regional government. I think something like that is going to continue consolidation with greater say at the local level. I see those two happening. I The incorporation of the Housing Finance Agency. I'm sorry if the FHA underneath Kristina's I think that's more problematic. We'll have to wait and see I'm just listening. I don't work at the Congress. I don't know whether it's because they don't trust me to go up there but that's not part of my job and I just listened to them reporting to the secretary. I think some kind of a simplification of the present system of the FHA will occur weather will be the incorporation within hard as proposed. I'm not yet clear on that and I've got to say this to be a fair reporter a massive cut and I would be dishonest if I didn't tell you this that more than 7 billion of cut out of this past year. Not not this next year not the 96 budget 7 plus billion is being cut from the Hart budget from 1995 if that occurs then All the reforms are going to be delayed massively because of 25% of the total is is pretty bad over with Senator Bond. I expect he'll be a lot more moderate and expect the gold shaker, but they'll be a major cut and I present funding and therefore a delay in implementing changes Latimer was asked one last question. The question is what can transform the way we think about ourselves as a nation. I think political leadership plays a role. But only a role. I'm not one who believes that were waiting for a great leader to articulated. I think that if you go into any church basement or any gymnasium where people are gathered together talking about their problems, you'll find the answers and you'll find the commitment and the eloquence and the passion and what it takes to get more of us doing that. It's hard work. It takes a lot of time. There's no question about that. But you know, I don't. I don't think that I'm being. romantic about this I don't think that we have to place it in the minds of people. I don't think we have to place it in the hearts of people. I think it's there. I think there is a power bar for yearning to pull together and get out of this madness that were in the acrimony and the meanness and it division. And we're going to need smart. Political judgment to think about how we do things that unify rather than divide people as an example when I was a mayor in the early years. I fought hard to make sure we targeted everything and make sure that the the money or the program got to the most deserving in the most poor. I think in many ways if I were creating a national policy, I would do less targeting because I think you'll lose it political support as you more more Target and I think we've got to think of more and more measures. For example, we all know that the difference between someone who's very poor and out of work and a poor working woman single head of household with working hard to pay for the day care and everything else that it's a tough. Margin. It's not that it's not too different universes, you know, it means that we've got to have systems that respect those and not just say If you make $10,000 you deserve it, but if you make 14000 you don't, you know, we've got to get out of that kind of thing. I think that divides us attacks each other probably ought to be changed. I know we're out of time and I will stop I want to drop this on you. I've been thinking about this for a lot of years back from when I was ahead of the tax commissioner, Jerry Christensen is here. We've talked about this dramatic with my conclusion. I think that Democrats and liberals and well-meaning people spend too much time worrying about perfect equity in all the ways that we raise revenue. And I'm prepared easy for me to say I'm not running for anything. But but but I am prepared not to dismiss Equity but to say follow the Willie Sutton rule never Willie Sutton the bank robber. They said Willie. Why do you keep robbing banks? That's where the money is. I think we've got to think of a tax policy that will generate a stream of Revenue in Connect that up with our national purposes and people will be willing to pay for something that they believe in but I think it's hard to do that with any of the conventional tax that we now have And either a fool would be in favor of a whole fresh National look at a taxing system that may not provide perfect Equity but would produce enough money. So this bloodletting folks out there in Washington right now rent in case you think you're rid of me. I'm just renting there. There are people seriously saying that we're going to cut taxes at the federal level and let the locals and state. They know they're their wives and Rich and they're going to take care of things. I don't see any evidence would I see a lot of wisdom but I don't see that. We're ready to text ourselves at the state or local level. So who is talking to whom here? Somewhere along the line. We're going to not have the resources even close to responding to even minimal vision of what a decent Society. To provide until someone. I presume someone not running for office tomorrow as got to start rattling around the question of how do you provide a national resource of Revenue weather involves a visiting of a value-added tax or some variation of that? I am I personally think that we've got the connect conversations about Revenue up with conversation about values of what we do. I've talked a little bit too long, but it's so wonderful to be with you all. I wish you well. Thank you. Former st. Paul Mayor George Latimer who is now the director of the special actions office at the Department of Housing and Urban Development in Washington Latimer spoke last week at the Landmark series public affairs Forum in Saint Paul.