(00:00:00) Thanks for coming by first of all sure. Appreciate it. Thanks for the invitation. Glad to be here. Let's let's walk through some of the basics here help us out those of us who aren't privy. Don't get all the ins and outs of the system. How does a school get its money? First of all in the most Elementary level? (00:00:18) Well, there's basically two pieces the state pays state revenue sources pay about 60 to 62 percent of all the money that individual school districts get and the state gets that money from income taxes and sales taxes the remaining portion. The 38% been is paid for by school districts through their property tax. And those are Statewide averages. If you're in a property wealthy District a Minneapolis or in Edina, for example, the percentage of State funding would maybe only be 40% with 60% being on the property tax. Whereas if you're in a property Poor area a small town in rural Minnesota the state might pay as much as 70 or 80 percent of the total funds with only 20% on your property tax. In addition to that basic funding then their communities can ask their voters to do something called a excess referendum, they would go and ask for additional property taxes and about two-thirds of the districts in the state have excess operating levies. Is (00:01:27) there some guideline as to what that extra money is supposed to be used for can in school districts do anything they want with it. It's generally just added into the general fund and used for the regular expenses in the case of Minneapolis when they passed a referendum Levy a few years ago. They said it would be used specifically for reducing class size. But unless there is is something like that it goes into the general fund. I assumed it was one of these excess levees that so that's what happened in White Bear Lake. (00:02:00) Right that failed now in the White Bear Lake circumstance. They were re-upping their Levy. They had had a levy in place and they were just asking their voters. I believe it was about three million dollars Arlene. They were asking their voters to say. Can we continue that operating Levy and their voters said no, so they will actually now have a three million reduction in the total money. They had their not they were asking for new money. They were just asking to continue the same amount they had so they're in a white bears in a pretty difficult situation right (00:02:28) now. How about other schools are is that a fairly common problem? That schools are pretty strapped for money are some are washing money what to do. I don't believe there are any of these days that are Awash in money and and I believe the the number of districts that are have a referendum Levy now is closer to three out of four districts than two-thirds. Unfortunately more and more districts have had to go to their voters for the referendum which to me shows that the basic Dollars aren't enough to cover the basic programs. And that's why I think it's important that we look and many of us are looking at new ways of funding education better ways more stable ways. I know the school boards Association has called together all of the various lobbying groups of school boards, the cities of the first class Association metropolitan school districts see and the Minnesota rural Education Association that represents most school districts in the state and to work together to see if we come up can come up with a better. Stable way of funding education. We haven't come up with any good either so (00:03:50) we should mention one other piece of funding. We have not mentioned an additional Levy that can take place for Capital expenses. If they if Community needs to build a new building, they would ask their voters for a bond issue. And so that's an additional piece that most communities are many communities have now many of these levees are something we call equalized. If you're in a property poor area the state will contribute to your Levy by using general state revenue. For example, if you're if you're in a poor area you and you need $100 on your Levy the state might pick up 50 cents on a dollar of your total Levi. If your voters vote for that that is a that's called an equalized Levi. So the state assist property poor areas and that way (00:04:36) also how do we get such a complex system. I mean that sounds awfully (00:04:40) convoluted. Well, I think in trying to balance And I think there are different perspectives on this but in trying to balance equities across the state to fulfill our constitutional responsibility to provide a general and equal education across the state you need to add complexities to shift Dollars around the state to help provide that fairness and depending on if you're a community that is being helped you view that fairness differently than if you're a community that is helping others, but I think it as there's kind of a Continuum here to attain fairness and Equity. You need to make things a little more complex. If you make things too complex, you start to lose track of whether you're being fair and Equitable and I think there's a growing sense that we have become maybe perhaps too complex where people don't understand enough with the basic equities are here and they're becoming frustrated by that. So we may be a little bit too far in the Continuum of Sorry, but it's it really can't be as simple as saying we're going to spend $4,000 on every child and that's it because we know through research that not every child takes the same amount of resources to receive an equal and fair opportunity for Quality education. (00:06:01) So you get a different amount purse per child. Nip and and there are other factors, you know the afdc there's an additional amount of money for for those students training and experience of teachers, which is something I've been very involved with over the years. In other words. You could have two districts next to each other with the same number of students. They could have the same salary schedule and if one student one District had been growing in the other one had been declining so that the district that was declining ended up with many more teachers at the top of the pay scale in other words with the whole system of not hiring new teachers to balance that. It can cost more in the one District per student to educate those students than in the one next door through nobody's nobody's fault. It's just the way where the kids are and so there are factors that like that that I think are definitely an equity issue. Why doesn't the state just pay all the costs of Education K through 12 education have a school board kind of monitor things to make sure that stuff works the way it's supposed to and that Local District and be done with it. (00:07:17) Well, I perhaps may have different perspectives. Are they in which (00:07:19) what would be your well and in this this, you know, I've probably changed my perspective on that and the years. I've been on the school board for 13 and a half years and involved before that. You know, it's the old thing of local control which we believe in and I think the people believe in and they want control over their schools. But in many ways we don't have control. I mean we know that it's got to be funded fairly by the state and that a system where just if the school district just paid for their own there would be many kids that would not be getting a good education because they don't have the funds to do it. So that's that's where this tension always is where is the good balance between the state completely funding and the like the syrup committee has been looking at that what parts of the (00:08:15) education reform committee and work? (00:08:18) Looking at that what part should be funded by the state? (00:08:22) I think my perspective is similar. We do have a tradition of local control not clearly not all wisdom resides in the state either at the governor's office or in the state legislature. And so we do want local control of education and it's kind of a given that if the state pays for everything it will try to control everything and so we we want to provide enough State funding to provide equity and fairness across the state but we don't want to provide so much State funding that the state feels it's going to control everything because I think that would be a disaster and so that balances about 62 percent now of State funding perhaps we can go to 70 or 75% But I think if we go much Beyond 70 or 75 percent State funding then I think we go over the edge and there will be very little reason to have local school boards. And in my way of thinking that would be a disaster because the state legislature cannot be Billboard and that's not what it's supposed to be and (00:09:19) it's nice to hear you say that well, then it's one of the things (00:09:23) one of the things I'm I spend most of my time on is trying to remind members of the legislature that we are not school boards in our job is not to make those kinds of decisions and it's a constant struggle because every legislator comes eager to solve all the problems of the world in their community and they think that if they've got a bill that might work for Bloomington certainly it'll work in koochiching County also and that's just that's just not correct. And so we're constantly struggling to try to get legislators to not view themselves as school board members view themselves as state policy makers provide adequate funding for fairness and equity and then let go let go and let smart professionals and local elected officials decide how best to deliver the (00:10:07) product. Okay. Those are some of the basics Our Guest today state senator, Larry Hogan Miller who is chair of the state senate education committee. Arlene bush is the president the Minnesota school. Dissociation we're talking about education funding in the state of Minnesota how it works how it might be changed not a small potatoes item. Not only of course is education very very important, but it's very expensive and a lot of debate on just whether the state is collecting its money properly spending its money properly whether there's some changes that should be should be implemented jeans our first caller. She's calling from West Bloomington. Go ahead. Yes. Good afternoon. I just have a minute. I'm being grandmother today. I just wanted to say that I think a lot of Americans have the welfare syndrome. We want we don't want to pay for anything and I think our national state and city leaders need to have to take out ads and tell the American parents and grandparents to grow up that regardless of whether we send our money to Washington to St. Paul or Mikey's Bloomington we pay for it. And these children are our best natural resource. Thanks a lot. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Oh, that's wonderful to hear from a Bloomington resident. Thank you very much. Gene member of the school board out there. I suppose you real happy to hear that. Yes, and I and I think basically well and put most polls show that people want to pay for education and feel it's a number one priority, but it's always the question of how we do it. I think one thing on the referendum Levy that the fact that as I said so many districts have a referendum excess of Levi shows that the the amount set by the state is not funding our basic education. And the thing I see wrong with school districts having then to go to the voters to have them vote on this unlike the cities that set their levies for what they think they need then, you know, there's always the If people think they're wrong and they can always throw them out of office, but I just feel that we spend so much time. I know in Bloomington we have gone for so many excess levies, you know, and we will be going for one again, which is expiring and you spend so much time and energy doing this trying to show people how you need the money and so forth that I don't think it's the best use of resources at the local level. Do you think that the average voter especially the voter who doesn't have a child in the school's can make how can I decide whether or not they're the money is being spent wisely in the school's if I would pick up my newspaper. I would it seems to me the the sky is falling schools are no good and yet somebody says to me G I want to raise your taxes because we need some more money over at the local school house. I think my response would be well gee what are you doing with what you're collecting now, how do I figure out whether or not that money is being well spent. (00:13:19) Why my thought is that judgments are that voters are are very smart when they make decisions. They they don't view their role as a group. There were smart. They don't view their role as making decisions that Arlene has to make or that a state legislator has to make about the specifics of every dollar we spend that they don't view that as their role. I think they view their role as saying are we generally getting what we need out of education for the children we have and in our we roughly spending the amount of money that's necessary to do that. And at this point in time, I think they are saying we need a little bit better description of what are the results were getting and are we getting high enough results for the future economies of our community and I think that's fair for voters to call us all into question on that. So I'm actually fairly sympathetic to what voters are saying. I do believe we need more money for for Education, Minnesota both k12 and higher education. But I think it is fair for voters to ask us to better describe to them. What are we doing with the roughly eight billion dollars. We're already spending and I are challenge. I believe as a state legislator and I think Arlene's challenge is a board member is to better describe that to people and we're doing a good job in Minnesota. We're clearly one of the best school systems in the country. Clearly. I think the problem in the challenges though is we're just not good enough and we need to become much better than we (00:14:46) are and we can't be complacent just having come from a national policy meeting in Washington yesterday with school board members from around the country way, you know, everybody is struggling and and many states have come up with, you know new ways of funding and other programs to so I agree that Minnesota has been a leader but we can't just rest on our Laurels. I think as far as the basic question for the voters certainly applies to Bloomington because about Percent of our residents no longer have children in school and I always say well I represent that 70% because my children are out of school also and and I think it's a matter of electing people that you trust to do the job in to have you know, the superintendent is important figure in the community and to contact do as much to get out into the community to with different groups and get the non-parents into the schools and and so forth to make everybody feel part of it marks on the line for Minneapolis with a question. Go ahead. Yes. Thank you. Yes, my family attends the White Bear schools and up front. I just like to say I think that the school district is doing a fabulous job and I voted in favor of the tax excess tax, but it unfortunately failed. I think that I want to comment and then a question my comment is basically I think Reason that I fill this for several reasons first White Bear Lake area has a lot of older families that no longer have kids. We also have a lot of new family people have moved into the area recently and they basically there's a lot of them at just don't show any ownership in the community. They don't want to pay any taxes. They every time there's a proposed new store to increase the tax base. They turn that down they have had drives onto to kill the having Target come in the area and Rainbow Foods and and every time we try to get some toy stores in there to have an increased tax base, they say no because they want to preserve some kind of pristine Wilderness out there which which it's not anymore and and a lot of these people come in and there's been a lot of disinformation. That's where my question comes in the day before. I mean the day of the tax referendum election, the there was pamphlets handed out by a vote no committee and they put all kinds of really I think disinformation. They said that there's no need for the excess. Referendum tax because the school district had ability to take the existing School tax and increase its taxation rate that more than cover for the amount of money. They also said that we had excess amount of administration costs and other things and and quite frankly, I don't see that and I'm just question it does the school district have the ability to take then increase the standard tax rate and I'll hang up and listen. Thank you. Okay and again to clarify now, this would be the amount of property tax that the school's sort of automatically get how does that how do they how do you get crop property tax money? Well, basically the amount per student is set by the legislature and then the legislature tells every District. What amount to Levi It used to be Mills and now it's percentage of the tax capacity. And so we're told to Levy that and then the rest of it is optional you could call it optional. I don't know that there are many districts that aren't levying to the maximum amount and I'm certain that white there was levying every bit that they were allowed under the law back to back to the White Bear Lake thing though and I don't want to get bogged down in this business about it gets very briefly. Can they somehow increase the amount that they're you (00:18:46) know? Okay. Well dependent I think accurately depending on what happens to their tax base. They may actually get more revenue or not depending on what happens with the state formulas and stuff. But I think it's fair to say in the white Big Bear Lake circumstance. This represents a real cut since it was a it was an operating Levy that they were trying to re and re up or continue. So I think it's fair to say that it may also be fair to say that they need to look at their administrative costs and things like that. But I clearly White Bear Lake is in a difficult situation right (00:19:20) now, right but that again gets back to the question. I asked earlier. How is it that a person in White Bear Lake in this instance not to pick on them, but who doesn't have anybody in the schools and you know, it's busy and don't have a lot of time to spend hanging out at the schools and studying the flow charts at the school. How do they know whether or not there isn't is there too much administrative costs there in White Bear Lake not you know, there's about right there's how do you make a determination like that? Well, I think generally when you're having a referendum Levy vote, you have to have General citizen involvement and no that's been our experience and I think most districts do that so that you get parents and other citizens involved on your committee and they work to get the Formation out to all the other people in the city in the school district and I would imagine that White Bear Lake did that also but if they had a really organized group against it and then of course, there are different tactics used sometimes so I believe that white bear is in a very serious situation. (00:20:33) I think again, I just want to I think voters are not saying the voters are as a group fairly intelligent. We need to analyze what it is. They're being intelligent about and it is not I don't think it surprises anybody that there is a group of citizens in White Bear that are questioning whether the current monies that are spending are being spent appropriately. I mean that is happening at the national level that's being happened that happening all over the country. Unfortunately in this instance white bear has been caught in a vise because they they are they this is actual cut and revenue for them. But we never should underestimate voters. They are talking to us about things that as elected representatives. We need to figure out and there is something about what we're hearing from voters that we need to take very serious. I don't think voters are cheap and I don't think whether they have children in the school or not that they don't care about those kids Minneapolis at the time. It passed its referendum several years ago were only 17 percent of the households had children in school and many of those children were children of color. So there were many factors one could argue why that constituency Voted for the referendum, but they did they voted for it overwhelmingly. And so I think the the task is for us to properly describe to people what it is. We're doing with the money are we getting the kind of results they feel are necessary for children to succeed and when we do that they are very willing to pay for education and I think the message to us all is since they've kind of slowed this down a little here. We got to work a little harder as policy makers and as parents and as other citizens who care about education, so white bear will get through this they will re-examine what they're doing and my guess is within a couple of years. They will go back to their voters maybe even next year and say here's what we can accomplish if you give us some dollars, so I think we need to be optimistic about what voters are doing it is I know it's it's easiest to say they're being cheap or they're being stingy, but I think they're much wiser than that and they are asking for much higher results than we're delivering an education and I think that's fair for them to ask. For (00:22:53) our guest today state senator Larry Hogan Miller and Arlene Bush who is the president of the Minnesota school boards Association school funding how we pay for public education in Minnesota is the subject today Nancy from Rochester's on the line. Go ahead. Yes. I just like to Echo a lot of mr. What? Mr. Pogue lot Meyer said I think voters are voting down bonds at least in our case because they're distrustful of an educational experiments. I mean a not in Rochester. We have been undergoing a long-term outcome based education experiment and we have seen our standardized test scores drop and we've seen the administration almost hide the scores from us and not reveal them and and there has just been such a distrust between the voter and the community that that these things aren't going through and I think sometimes local bonds are the only way some districts have of showing the district's they're dissatisfied. Especially the district's not listening to what The community saying or if they're so bent on a particular educational philosophy that they won't let go of it at any cost. And so I don't think that more money all also I don't think more money also equates to better education also, but I think if we take away that vote from The Local District, then I think that we will take away a significant power card. Okay. Well, thanks for your (00:24:21) comment. If I could just briefly Nancy. I don't think there's any danger that will be taking away the vote on those referendums. So I just might mention that it's possible in the Rochester on your on your overall scores. And I don't know specifically that this is true, but it's possible that the cohort of students is coming in at a lower level and that's why the overall scores might be dropping it may may or may not been correlated to the implementation of Obe. It may be may not be also in so I don't mean to challenge that it isn't I'm just saying that there are other possibilities that the cohort of students may be coming in with less prepared than originally (00:25:01) the only thing on voting and the referendum and I certainly agree with all of that. We have to look closely at how and where we're spending our money. I mean everybody knows that I'm a fiscal conservative but it does seem strange that this is about the Only area education which we say is our top priority where we go to the voters to ask them for money for what I consider our basic education now and the the we don't go to the voters for to vote on roads or Parks or things like that. And that's that's where I guess I have a question about it. It's the only way we don't they don't vote on what spent on Human Services, you know, things like that. Why is that Senator? I mean it does seem kind of odd. (00:25:59) Well, there are votes on those at the state level (00:26:04) but not but as a rule, I mean, you know that somebody doesn't come by and say gee we want to kind of build a new road over here. It's going to cost you another 25 bucks a month and yay or nay on that and nobody says that (00:26:15) that's correct from a city perspective but the bulk of Road funding comes from State revenue sources and there is a vote on that but I think if we were to put cities and schools on the same footing with regards to referendum type Concepts now cities do go to referendum for Capital things right (00:26:35) case definitely when I say Parks I are going to buy Park land you (00:26:38) have to vote on it. But historically we have not even had cities and schools running at the same election time, and we've now fixed that their fiscal years are difference and I think if we if we started to align those things then perhaps we could have a reconsideration of whether we ask cities to have local referendums or maybe not have schools do that. But I think in there would need to be some historical there need to be some work done on time of the historical framework of policymaking this area and and the accountability measure keep in mind that If there are not votes at the local level for schools that will result in more power grab by the state level and I as a state policy maker. I am imploring local officials not force us or not to create a situation where we will just take all the decisions because it would I think again it would be a disaster to have the legislature and the governor be a superintendent and school board. I just don't think that will work the states too complex for that. And so I just I do understand the difference between school board's going for excess lap operating levees, but keep in mind those are excess operating levies and constitutionally, we have a requirement to provide a fair and Equitable system across the state and so we it is not as simple as saying just let us be like cities because there is no constitutional requirement to say we have to have fair and Equitable police protection around the state and those some people would argue that there is different police protection. Center or ambulance services or benefits for various Social Services. There is a constitutional requirement to have fair and Equitable education across the state (00:28:23) Phillips on the line from wanna me die. Yes and the discussion of Education support for Education. We have the local support and the state support outlined but they're what's missing from the equation as Federal responsibility and I support or suggest that Federal the federal government established civil service status for teachers and support the teachers and the local people would support the buildings and the programs and this way the Teachers would be free of local tenure. They would be able to move from large schools small schools without loss and pay and generally achieve a more independent professional status. When you think our land shall we Federer penalize the teachers know I would not be in favor of that because I having just come from a national policy meeting yesterday. I've been thinking of you know on the federal level and I know I do believe it should be a national priority, but I am leery of the federal government becoming more involved in our school districts and I think they should be funding what they require and that's always been the big push from school board members is no unfunded mandates. And so I'm more concerned about watching that part of it. I don't think it would be To have school teachers be federal employees (00:30:08) Philip. I would just add that the I think we get something less than five percent of our total money for Education Minnesota from the federal government and that numbers going down and it's so I think at least until the federal budget gets straightened out. We were not looking for a lot of financial assistance from the federal level and without some financial assistance. I guess I would agree with Arlene. I'm not overly interested in having them tell us how to do things there. They seem to be having a hard time doing the things they are trying to do now, I would say one thing though. They have bent the federal government the federal Congress and the president both Democrat and Republican have been leaders in this push to raise standards and expectations for children. And I think that's a proper role by the federal government and this the it's called years. It's called mm. And I think that is Excellent in to the extent that they can keep pushing us all to raise standards that will help us. I think (00:31:07) we're next callers on the line from Eden Prairie Dan. Go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. I would like to make a comment regarding the funding for the schools. I'm from overseas in from Israel. And I was wondering if our guests the senator and the other person I just joined in listening over here. So I didn't know who is really on in our Forum over there, but I was wondering if they have ever looked overseas and seen what the budget per student or how much money the other nations spend on their kids versus what we do I have been to some of the school's over here like in Blaine and all and some other schools eat school over here is like an aircraft carrier. None of the schools in Europe nor in Israel have the facilities that America Has and yet we have failing constantly in achieving good results with our kids. I think that it's not the money that's at that we need in our schools. But we need to the the right attitude of the students and that's what we really have to focus on because I know when I went to school in Israel all we had was a Blackboard a chalk and we wanted to learn and if the students don't want to learn you can spend as much money as you want and you'll never get the results. So I think we are missing the point over here. Okay, and I was wondering for your comment. (00:32:43) Well Dan, thank you. The you are correct. It is not there is not a direct correlation always between dollars spent per pupil and results. There is some correlation but not a direct and we we know for example that in Japan. Spend about $2,200 per pupil in Minnesota. We spend about forty two or three. Though $4,300. Did I what did I say Japan? 2200? Okay in a Minnesota about $4,000 per pupil. We're above the US average in Minnesota Sweden spends upwards to about 46 or 48 hundred dollars per pupil. So some some areas that are doing better on certain areas like math and science like Japan are spending significantly less than us. We are aware of some work by Professor Stevenson from I believe the University of Michigan. I may have that wrong but Professor Stephenson is work as well known in the educational community and he has shown that the way we structure our he has studied the United States and China and Japan and Taiwan and one of his study schools was in Suburban Minnesota. So he one of these data points was Minnesota and his analysis shows that they are getting better results in those countries. Because of their attitude toward preparation for teachers and the way they structure their school day. And so we are trying to learn from that and trying to provide ways to better structure our school days provide more student teacher contact better student teacher preparation in an area where they may not doing it be doing as well as perhaps in the Arts area. And so they have some things to learn from us in that area. But we are trying your direct question was are we trying to find out what other people in the world are doing the answer is yes, and in other parts of the world they are doing wonderful things in some instances and we are trying to learn from that and trying to implement some of that and I think the basic point that you made that I heard you say at least was the relationship between a teacher and a student is the fundamental relationship not the computer or not the Blackboard or not the gymnasium. It's the relationship between the mentor and the student and we are trying to go back to basics and focus on that, Minnesota. So I appreciate your Your comments and if we can get all minnesotans to think along the lines you're thinking we're going to get there a lot (00:35:17) quicker Darlene carry anything. No, I think comparisons are always dangerous. It was interesting in mentioning Japan because I had an opportunity to visit Japan this fall and visited a couple of schools. And as we are trying to look at Japan to see how we can improve it was interesting the superintendent of schools over there in one of the suburbs of Osaka said that they are especially length of day and length of school year that they are now shortening their days somewhat doing away with some of their Saturday classes because they felt that students needed more time with their families and stressing more. They'd also gone trying in one school gone from uniforms because they thought they should they needed more individuality. Leti so as we're looking at them to improve they are also looking at us for ways to improve in other areas. So I think we have to be careful and certainly we have to learn from everybody who has success answer your question. Yeah, I think both of you both both of the two speakers have touched a little bit on what it is. I have to say our my question. I'd like to comment that I think it's clear that funding and excellence in education are intimately connected. If not part of the same coin, I think that it is true that people tend not to want to pay more money. I don't think this culture is taking the best carrot could have its children in areas other than in education also. In the context of the politician trying to guide in some way and yet the senator has said that you are not school board members. My question very specifically is a lot of people are aware of the rather astonishing turnover of Commissioner of Education my question to put to you as why is the position of Commissioner of education and political appointment Senator (00:37:36) Nancy that there's some historical tradition on this we've done it both. We've done it various ways in Minnesota and I think the reason we are where we are now with the governor making that appointment is because it appeared the people said there was a lack of accountability in education. And since the governor is the elected official that is elected by all the people you want to allow a governor to have an impact on policy making in education therefore. Allow that person to pick choose their own commissioner. We have an excellent commissioner. Now, I'm a Democrat and she was appointed by a republican but I think she's fantastic. She's smart. She's tough. She's a leader. She's thoughtful and if she does her job really well, I think it's not outside the realm of possibility that had a Democratic governor would appoint her also. So I think the key factor is and I support actually having the governor make the appointment because I think the key factor is some accountability through the electorate as to what is the policy-making going on. So, I think that's the right way to do it and our turnover in the last couple of years is not been related to the fact that it's difference between a Democrat and Republican Governor. It's been because a particular Governor has decided he wants somebody different in the job and I think that's his or her prerogative to do that and the change of direction that Governor Carlson had in mind between commissioner Mammon gay and commissioner Powell is I think the kind of accountability that is useful (00:39:08) X callers on the line from Otter Tail County Elizabeth. Hello. I'm glad you're both there today on this cold day. I have a comment and a question and they both relate to property taxes in my school district. We renewed a referendum this fall and fortunately it passed but I know a lot of Voters were thrown a little bit when they realized that the ballot said in big bold print something like if you vote Yes for this referendum, it will raise your taxes and since our referendum was a renewal some of them thought that meant it would their taxes would be even higher than they had been in the last five years of our referendum and I see that as a problem the requirement that that's on the ballot. It does confuse people. Now my question is about property taxes. I see in the first issue of Fashion Weekly that appalled at the State Fair included a question about changing the funding for education to get away from property taxes and a third of the people said no, they didn't want to change that and there are different group meeting to try and reform the funding system for education. And my question is is there going to be the political will in the legislature do that? All right, either one good question about the ballot. Everybody is (00:40:42) looking at me both Gary and Arlene were looking at me. (00:40:45) Well, you're in the hot seat over there. So (00:40:48) it's always a treacherous and difficult question to try to surmise whether there's the political will to do something. You are correct that there are many groups studying how to fix the the property tax system and education funding in Minnesota. I think at least there's a house task force work House of Representatives task force working on it. There's a task force to serogroup that Arlene mentioned the Coalition and education reform and they're going to have a report the business Community has been working on various things over the last few years. I I think the key point would be that two (00:41:28) or more people gather. (00:41:29) They were talk about yeah. This is nothing new. We had the Latimer commission five or eight years ago. So this is not a new topic. I think the my my personal judgment is that if Governor Carlson puts a serious significant proposal on the table in the area of school funding and property tax reform that the legislature will have the political will to deal with it. Now, that's not the same as saying the old they'll Do the right thing or they'll figure it all out, but I think they will if the governor provides the leadership and says look we have to do something. Here's a proposal that you may or may not like but you can no longer ignore this then I think the legislature will act it. I would say that it is a difficult task for a governor to come up with a proposal that is significant meaningful and has some political legs because this is it is a very complex and difficult issue trying to convince people that you need reform. When what people do once you put a reform package on the table is look at the computer run and say well it's reform if I get more money and it's not reform if I get less money so I even though I am optimistic that Governor Carlson with the size of his electoral Victory will be able to come in with a significant proposal and then provide some leadership for us to have a good needed discussion but in but I don't know whether he is going To do that or we'll be able to do it. I hope he does and I want to and he does know that there are at least as as a democratic chair of the education Committee in the Senate. I am enthusiastically eager to work with him on a significant reform proposal if he can put something on the table that we can work with school boards Association going to push (00:43:17) pretty hard. Well we're as I mentioned earlier we're working with all of the various School Board organizations in the state Regional organizations and the cities of the first class to look at for a better way of funding and property tax reform has been a big issue. Also, you didn't mention the ballot question. That was the first part of the previous callers question about the having to it says that yeah, that doesn't make (00:43:49) sense. Yeah, if it's a really it's like (00:43:51) right it's that is has been a concern that it had to say and I understand truth. Taxation and everything like that, but that you've had to say this will increase your taxes, even if it was a (00:44:02) continuing Arlene is there will the school boards Association have a proposal on that because I think if we had some okay. Yeah, we were yeah, I know I think like check on it. The idea is to provide appropriate and accurate information voters. That's truth in taxation. If you give them information that leads them to believe something other than what's happening. Then that's not helpful. And in the description she gave or White Bear Lake and their description saying this is new taxes and that's not (00:44:26) useful. Okay, Angie you're next. Okay, this comment is for Miss Bush and her fellow board members throughout the state. I just feel that boards need to to responsibly control money from within the district and in particular. I think there's an unfair balance in spending in the districts in favor of Athletics. For example in my district. Our district has a budgeted sure of, you know, right Sherwood Sherwood budgeted second level. Desk, we spend $60 per student participant in non-athletic co-curricular and $586 is spent per student participant in athletic Coke regulars. So I just like to know have this bush comment on that and I think it's important that we put more emphasis on the experiences that benefit more students in preparing for a productive adulthood and not that Athletics aren't important. But let's re-evaluate. Okay. Well, I certainly agree with you and I think that's an issue that should be addressed at the local level with your own School Board because I'm sure these figures and percentages vary between school district and certainly that's something that as school board members we grapple with all the time and we've been talking about White Bear Lake. I know that they probably will be making drastic Cuts in well in all areas. I know. Lamb over the past four or five years in Bloomington. We had to make some drastic budget cuts and we made large Cuts in athletics. We've been fortunate that the community has taken on some fundraising for that area. And then we also had to continue on and try to have always tried to avoid Cuts in the classroom and teachers which we even had to end up doing but I do think that that's a concern that should be addressed at the local level and that certainly we hear as of as a board member we do hear from both sides of that issue. And of course in tight budget times, nobody feels that he or she has enough money for his particular area of interest and so I'm not trying to put you off but I think that's something you should address in your District we have time for I think one. Or call her hair bill. Go ahead. Yes. Hi. Thank you. I must say that this is definitely a complicated issue and I'm a resident of Woodbury, and I know that it's not just a simple solution of funding or changing the kids attitudes or or paying more property taxes and being involved somewhat in the school district there. I can appreciate the school board person feeling kind of like the family dog. Your hands are kind of tied to really make any changes with funding but to the senator I do have a question for you because I have talked with Judith Krantz who are Jane Krantz or you're familiar with Senator Senator Kent's right? Yes, since sense of fundamental changes in property taxes are probably going to be slow. How about allowing funding say from tax increment financing tool? Oh no longer be exempt from school boards to allow businesses to pay effectively estate tax or a county tax for funding school districts, or to allow impact fees on development to go towards School distance right now at the state level all These things are put into place and they're Exempted from paying money into the school districts and yet all of these things the development directly impacts the school district Senator (00:48:06) Kay bill. I think that all of the things you mentioned will be on the table for discussion your local Senator. Actually Senator price has had a bill before us on impact fees. And so I think time is short, I guess so the key element here is all of those proposals need to be considered and my hope is is that the governor will put something on the table that has that kind of forces us and encourages us all to have a good policy discussion about all of those options. (00:48:36) You've bent both mentioned several times the the central role that of course the basic per student formula plays. Is that going to go up this year or is that going to remain Frozen? What's the future for that? (00:48:53) I think it's unlikely that it will go up. It'll take about seven hundred and seventy million dollars to just stay in place to pay for new pupil growth and to fulfill the commitment on the 3150 that we currently pay and to pay for all the various Transportation formulas and stuff. So unless there's a tremendous amount of new Revenue here. I think it's going to be difficult to stay where we are. And so even though I know that school board members don't like to hear me say this it doesn't look to me like there's a real strong possibility that will increase the formula (00:49:26) itself. But in that is tough when there hasn't been an increase on the general formula for four (00:49:31) years right there there have been increases in other places though. Yes (00:49:35) their class size (00:49:36) reduction and she and other things but the basic the (00:49:39) basic formula probably going to stay the (00:49:40) same. I'm just speaking for my view of it and I think the legislature will debate it and there probably will be proposals to increase it. So I need to caution people that that's just my personal view as chair of the committee. I haven't even talked all my committee members yet on that point so We have five months of the session Anything Can Happen. (00:49:58) Thanks folks for coming by I appreciate it. Good information about a very complicated subject Our Guest today state. Senator, Larry Hogan Miller who is the chair of the state senate education committee and Arlene Bush member of the Bloomington school board and president of the Minnesota school boards Association.