We've been spending a lot of time since last summer with the major candidates for Governor and the US Senate and we hope it helps you get a better idea of who the candidates are and what they stand for but voters in Minnesota are also electing members of the US House next month. So we thought we should also devote some time to those races today tomorrow and next Tuesday. We're going to spend a half-hour with candidates insects Minnesota congressional districts today. We begin with the first congressional district in about a half hour will turn to the 5th District, but I say we begin with the first district where a new congressman is being elected this year to replace Democrat Tenpenny who chose not to seek re-election the FM news stations Mike Mulcahy is standing by in Rochester with a Canada tonight. Thanks Gary the First Congressional District covers, Southeastern, Minnesota including Red Wing Rochester, Winona, Albert, Lea and Austin as you say d flr, Tenpenny is represented the district in Washington since 1982, but he's not running for re-election this year. There are two major candidates who hope to fill the vacancy.Both are currently state legislators. The Republican candidate Gil gutknecht was elected to the Minnesota house in 1982. He's from Rochester and is an assistant House minority leader on the dfl side. John Hollinger is a state senator from Mankato. He was first elected to the senate in 1990. He's a lawyer and serves on a number of committees including the Senate tax committee. We want to keep this discussion informal as we talk for the next half hour or so. And so we've decided that Gil gutknecht will go first here. And Gil what would like you to do is to choose two main issues but two main issues you think are are important in this campaign and tell us what they are and tell us how you stand on him and then we'll let the John Hot in Herre have his shot at them. Well, thank you very much. We have spent more or less the last year traveling. The first district is I've said too many occasions. I've walked in 41 parades. We've been at 14 county fairs. I think I've been in virtually every coffee shop and barber shop in the first congressional district, and if I were to goDown to a two important issues that the voters have been talking about to me and thinks that they think room for tonight and I certainly agree. I would love them into two categories. First of all, I think the voters want Congressional reform. I think there's a good deal of frustration and even cynicism among the voters out there that Congress no longer Eyeworks in and functions efficiently a bit more importantly it no longer represents their basic views and values and and frankly there a lot of things that they would like to see done by Congress to just aren't getting done. And secondly, I guess I would put it into a bigger category they want budget reform and by that. I think what the voters are saying is they want the Congress to do what to the state legislatures have to do and what city councils have to do and frankly what all the families have to do in late. That is it they want Congress to live within its means and a John and I have had an interesting debate. During the summer about exactly how we can get to that. But ultimately I think with the voters in the first district one is they want a balanced budget and I frankly my view is that we've had to various budget deals.Over the last ten or twelve years. We had the bush budget deal are we had gramm-rudman-hollings? We had the Clinton budget deal. We've had Penny Kasich A to Z. Most of those plans involved pledging some kind of spending cuts in return for tax increases in the voters are bit cynical because they've seen the the tax increases over the years, but they sell them actually see the spending cuts. And so I would say if you were to lump it into two broad categories, I think the two issues that we're talkin most about our Congressional reform and end a budget before man in his grandma used to say if you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you always got. Well we'll get into some of the specifics of what you're talking about their butt. John Hopkins your do you agree that those are the two big issues in the first district Congressional race this year at the same amount of time and appear the same parades and county fairs and as I go from house to house in door-to-door in the business section, I hear a continue discussion of the budget and attempt any you show leadership in that issue.For 12 years fought to control the federal budget deficit and people want to see that tradition continued because of that very early on in the campaign. I announced a 106 my plan to balance the budget. It was a specific plan outline to catch the top line revenue raising. It outlined some things we need to do so that within five years we would bring a budget in the balance and the key to that. I think it's not only the fact it was a specific amount of stuff Choice proposal but it makes me accountable to get a voter's something to know about what I intend to do when I get elected to congress and that's where it where Gil and I have had some differences. He's talked about the balanced budget amendment which I would lump in with those deals that he also talks about the gimmicks that don't make the tough decisions and then recently, he's brought up a balanced budget proposal. That is I look at it take 500 billion dollars out of Medicare and Medicaid that without taking any directions as to how it's going to be saved. Well, let me just jump in and ask you, where are you going to cut and you?Talked about the raising some revenues to what are the specifics about your plan. We have to make Cuts they include things like putting a few if a couple is $120,000 of earned income and are on Social Security over the course of five years we can cut back but they getting Social Security to a half of what they're getting out as opposed to an across-the-board fries and increases run across the board cut the area of Medicaid. I've got four or five and Medicare weather for five specific changes that I think that can be mad that reform the system without hurting the people who get Medicare. I'm concerned about the broad based approach putting a freeze on it or limiting the growth because people have the most needs are paying the same in terms of cost is us who don't have the same day. Well, let's ask a Gil gutknecht to expand on this a little bit. Cutting entitlements. That's the sort of thing that the ER capping entitlements to the Concord Coalition has been talking aboutGroups like that doesn't that make some sense will certainly makes sense as matter fact, I need the Concord Coalition that came out today and sent you said both of our plans fall short. They were not Tough Enough on entitlements. You start talkin about the limiting the growth of entitlements all of a sudden you do create too great a bit of controversy and I and I believe it will ultimately we in fact I think we agree long-term. You cannot allow entitlements to grow it something like two and a half times the inflation rate and ever get to a real balanced budget. I let me just say though a little bit about John's playing and I do admire the fact that they've done some research and gone through the Congressional budget office list of recommendations in and they took a hundred for the hundred and six recommendations directly out of the book. I think it's a bit of to call that you are playing when you take it directly from the Congressional budget office, but nonetheless the Congressional budget office did make something like a hundred and sixty one specific recommendations of how the budget can be cut. But again, you have to go back in the store too becomes a chicken-and-egg toWhich comes first the chicken or the egg? If every member of every candidate running for congress, we have 435 members of every one of them had a hundred six point plan. If you multiply that out that something like forty six thousand different cuts that are good to each would be bringing back to the Capitol. It seems to me before you ever get to the the final version in the specific cut. You have to get a consensus that in fact, we're going to have a balanced budget part of the reason incumbent Congressman. Tim penny is retiring and part of the reason he was frustrated with the budget process was that he tried on many occasions to get some of these specific cuts to witness a penny Kasich witness the A to Z spending cuts to get them to the floor for it for an honest debate in an up-or-down vote. His frustration was not with the Republican leaders. It was not with John Kasich. It was not with the Garmin it wasn't he with Newt Gingrich the people that work the hardest to keep those specific cuts from ever coming to the floor for a vote for the Congressional leaders like Tom Foley Dan rostenkowski and even Marty Sabo from here in minutes.So if we don't have a consensus or if we don't have a gun held to our head my sense is that we will never Force Congress to do with 48 states have to do in John continual continually refers to a balanced budget amendment is a gimmick gimmick for the federal government. Why isn't it a gimmick for the state of Minnesota? Why isn't it a gimmick for so many of the other states? The truth of the matter is it does work for the states? And frankly? I think it's the only thing that will work to force the Congress to finally do what they continue to promise to do in that is to balance the budget John Hollinger decisions that I put forward Concord Coalition Congressional budget office Council for a livable world and the problem isn't finding places to cut your funny a very good suggestions. The Congressional budget office has the problem is forcing members of Congress to make a commitment before they get elected before they wander around with empty promises about balanced budget amendment to make a decisions about where they would make the cuts we've gotten yelled to do that finally after listen.Do is talk for months about needing specific proposals. He came out the other day and said he wants to cut 500 billion dollars out of Medicare and Medicaid but then even then he didn't give us any idea how he was going to do that whether we're going to reduce reimbursements for Rural hospitals make senior citizens pay more for Medicare reduce the level of services. I don't know and we still don't have an honest answer but it's very important. I think in order to get Congress accountable in the issue of budget cuts to get members of Congress to make a commitment before they get elected as to what they're going to stand behind and stand for no Michael you also make sure when I'd like to touch in that for a second the second issue when it's similar to the Congressional reform resurrected Gill talks about what I see a little differently with people are frustrated about is Congress isn't getting things done. They believe what is a partisanship they sell at the end of the session lobbying reform something that people across the country wanted being stymied by obstructionism and partisanship. That's whatThey don't like to see Tenpenny. I think one of the reasons he's so well respect in this district is he works across party lines with John Kasich in an effort to solve problems. I don't think the people at least based in the ones. I've talked to want the kind of attack dog partisanship. The Newt Gingrich has done in the House Representatives and frankly gills down in the House of Representatives are in Minnesota when we need our people were willing to work together and then I see is been a distinction in both our approach to this campaign our approach when we've served in the legislature and I'm afraid our approach of it got elected to congress people don't want that partisanship and I think that's their biggest concern about the way Congress ever give you an attack dog was sometimes I'm forced into that role in in frankly. I think what people do want in the first district is they want accountability from government and frankly of the politburo. I didn't have much debate over some of the issues they dealt with in fact, if you ever watched the votes in the Soviet Union, all the hands went up there was no debate and and frankly, I think the people of the Soviet Union were poorly served. So I think there needs to beSome debate and then I think it has to be on a higher plane. I don't think it has to be personal but I think the best public policy is made after you have a healthy debate. Let me go back to a point of the John made nothing of importance instructive. I first of all he said that a balanced budget amendment was avoiding the tough decisions. I frankly I would say it a different way. I think a balanced budget forces of those tough decisions. The truth of the matter is the toughest voted most congressmen ever have to take is to raise the debt ceiling and when I said from the very beginning and I am willing to support a virtually all the budget cuts that he's called for as a matter of fact at the Chamber of Commerce to debate the other day. I chew on the table another 55 billion dollars with a couch with your contained in in the CBO recommendations. There's plenty of things that can be cut out there. But until you have agreement from the Congressional leadership that you're actually going to get an honest folks it a lot of it's just Halo talk. I might ask John have you got an agreement from Tom Foley and Dan rostenkowski and and even Marty Sable if they agreed to a to listen to theCatch and will they be brought up for the phone on the floor next year for an honest boat opportunity to review what's been going on in many many votes this session and got votes in specific budget cut but no, I haven't gone to Washington to hobnob with the Democratic leaders and what to do. I noticed that you went out and you like those 300 members of you talk about a raise their hands in unison down in line with a group of people for at a time walking up to a table to sign the contract on America over 300 candidates, including you putting their voting card and Newt Gingrich pocket so that when you get out there, you're tied to a series of proposals that fact you a number of things and putting out a trillion dollars to the debt. So I'm not that way. I haven't gone out and have nots Haverhill to Washington leaders so that I'm listening to them instead of listening to the people in the first district.So you can have budget cuts coming from candidates in Iowa and budget cuts coming from candidates in Florida. They could all be talking about budget cuts. But if Dan rostenkowski decides that there's not going to be a vote on those matters. It's going to be just like a tizzy will never get a chance to actually get a vote. No to talk about things during the campaign is easy and let's talk about the contract with America and in the Democrats have been demeaning that that's become almost pattern. Is there something you disagree with? You don't want to debate the issue you just a minute then to and the demon eyes and that's what's been happening too much in the last several years, even on health-care Weeds demonize the healthcare delivery system, but let's talk about a few of the things that are in the Bel Air in the contract with America that I sign and I did not agree to support every single line and item that's in there. What I did agree to do is say that these items are to be brought to the house floor under open rules to the day can be debated. They can be amended and that there oughta be an up-or-down Vote or recorded vote for the American people can see where we stand on those issues. But some of the issues include is have already indicated a balanced budget amendment.A line item veto for the present United States were willing to give a president of the opposite party a tremendous power in the oven the line-item veto overspending to cut some of the pork out of these projects which would say that the federal government the United States Congress has to play by the same rules that it passes for everybody else real welfare reform Bill tan work and personal responsibility and stopping this nonsense of paying bonuses for more illegitimate children a real Crime Control bill with no pork. I most of us believe and I think most of the people the first congressional district believe that Midnight basketball in macrame courses will do little to stop violent crime in our cities. There's litigation reform that's not very popular with the with the trial lawyers, but I think it's extremely popular with small business and did the voters in the first congressional district. There's a program to improve capital investment lowering the capital gains tax rate in half an indexing it to inflation. We've got another proposal call putting Families First which gives a $500 per child tax credit and frankly. I think the families of the first districtHow to spend the money more efficiently than Washington anyway and finally, let me say there's term limits for members of Congress. These are the issues that I think the voters of the first congressional district want this is what we've pledged and if if Republicans are given a chance they will get an up-or-down vote and honest debate under open rules. Now if that's not what the voters want and that's fine, but let's debate the issues and not just about this demonizing of the contract right? I think it's interesting that you call a demonizing of the contract when people actually Point let out what's in it till you've adapted the rhetoric of the roof of the Freshman the campaign of the Republican committee, but you haven't talked about what's included in these things. Let's talk about the economic policy in the camp here in the contract on America checking to make policy from 1980 81 82 when we acquire 3 trillion dollars of debt was done last year in the targeted fashion. The proposal you've got is only for the wealthiest once again your children.First program through the contract and you can you can have a chance to respond when he's done the contract in America includes a tax credit for families, especially wealthy family. They've got $119,000 and 4 kids. They get a $2,000 tax break. They've got $19,000 and four kids. I get no text break. I think that's a significant change to talk about the Shays amendment. I agree and I've advocated it's a good idea. Congress should have to abide by the same laws the house passed that it died when the Republican obstruction is didn't let it pass in the Senate. Do you talk about litigation reform? I work for litigation reform in Minnesota only have actually done it help change the malpractice laws in Minnesota so that they're safe havens for Doctor that's art of rhetoric doesn't add things. But the reality of the program is it adds 1 trillion dollars of debt by cutting taxes and raising expenses more defense bedding and I thinkDid someone say if you always do what you always did you always get what you always got what we did that and 1981 and we got 3 trillion dollars are dead. I don't want to see us do it again. One other thing to talk about Dan. Rostenkowski. Yelp, Dan rostenkowski doesn't show the Ways and Means Committee anymore. I know you've been busy campaigning first for the Senate now for the house. He doesn't do that because when he got indicted the Democrats got rid of him took the way his chairmanship at Joe McDade the Republican who got indicted who's the head of the Republican Senate Appropriations Committee two years ago. He got indicted and he's still sitting there in the Republican power position of the Appropriations Committee. Maybe that's a little reform your party can look at it and Washington, let's let Gil gutknecht respond to some of this criticism of the contract for America this program it at that is the most bogus thing I've ever heard. We acknowledge that there is a cost. If you lower capital gains and you and you provide tax relief to families and let me just go back and 19th Ave family earning $19,000.With a for children or I forget the number doesn't pay much federal tax. Anyway, that's that you know, it it's just a matter of of how much tax they actually pay obviously people with higher incomes. I'll get a break but you know, we had a president who ran a couple of years ago by promising a tax cut for the middle class. Frankly. This is a good way to achieve that and give that money back to the family. But let's talk about these numbers the Democrats are now claiming an end up in the biggest lie of all that somehow a balanced budget amendment is going to cost 700 billion dollars. Now. I have never heard anybody accurately explain how passing a balanced budget amendment can cause 700 billion dollars and I think that is a fundamental debate in it. And it's it's really a big difference between the two of us and frankly. I think it's a big difference between the of the Democrats and the Republicans running for the Congress this year. We've seen so many of these budget Deals they don't seem to work in End by the president's Congressional budget office or the president's a budget office and the CBO. They both acknowledged that a while the deficit is down now.How it will continue to climb and in fact, it'll be something like four hundred billion dollars by the turn of the century. We can't keep going that way and things have to change and if and if we don't pass a balanced budget amendment will never get to that point find me if I could just very quickly again going back to rewriting history the revisionism about the Reagan years. The truth of the matter is most Americans look back at the 80s very fondly we had tremendous economic growth is you is you work all part of the reason we had the camper off tax cuts, which did not cause the deficit the deficit was caused because we had too much spending particularly on entitlements and social programs. But when we started that program it was because we were facing stagflation which called with which year was another way of saying we had an incredibly High interest rates. We had high inflation and very slow economic growth and the whole concept was if we could lower marginal tax rates get the economy going again that we could we could bring interest rates down we could get the economy going we could bring the unemployment rate down and frankly at work Beyond to anyAnyone's expectation what didn't work is the Congress refuse to control spending some of the priorities of the president's budget, you know, you're right Jo stagflation existed and it made some sense in the early eighties to look at that kind of program, but you're wrong that it makes sense. Now, we don't have high interest rates. We have low interest rates are virtually no inflation. We have economic growth that includes the creation of jobs at a faster rate than the dead under George Bush's holterman office. So we have different economic condition to do now what we did then would result in nothing more than increase deficit when you spend more and you bring unless if you ran your family that way that would be a rather bizarre way to do it. That's our diplomacy. Even if it had short term value then has no value know the cost of the balanced budget amendment till we get 760 million dollars of debt. We have to somehow take care of over the next five years.If you want to pass a balanced budget amendment and I certainly want to balance the budget we have to pay for it. We have to pay for it by increasing revenues were cutting spending not by increasing spending and cutting revenues is contained in the contract on America. I wonder where are rapidly running out of time and I think I think I've gotten an idea. There were a couple other things that you brought up term limits Gil gutknecht favors term limits John hot Andrew turn on that's not a bad idea or not a good idea. Not a good idea good enough to be in their kind enough to be like me up for 12 years. That's all I will serve as her personally. I've made that commitment. I think Karen limits is is wrong because it takes away people's right to vote room for that. You would I choose 4 and more importantly he puts the power and staff and lobbyists. Now. I know that Newt Gingrich told the lobbyists that they are to support the Republican agenda. Are they pay for it? Well, I don't want to give the lobby has more power. We need to get them less.I don't think term limits is a good idea. Why are here's the real issue? What we need to do in Washington is to change attitudes the single most important word in the English vocabulary is the word attitude before you can change people's behavior. You have to change their attitude. Frankly. We have too many people to go to Washington see themselves as careers careerist. And I think that's the reason that we have this bad attitude coming out of the Congress that Ross Perot was really tapped into the they see Washington is coming at them rather than coming from them. And I think the only way to really begin to change those attitudes to remind them that we all knows offices and that they're only temporary tenants and not permanent residence is with some kind of term limits term limits have overwhelming support among the American people and frankly if it's given a chance for a referendum in the state of Minnesota or across the country. I suspect the American people would vote for him by over 75% They see this in.They see this bad attitude and Washington and and they agree that the only way to really change it is with term limits. I'm going to be grossly unfair to both of you and bring up a complicated subject and give me about thirty seconds to answer. What are neither one of you talked much about the defense budget. What is the role of the US are we the world's policeman? How should we be spending on defense over the next couple years and John Hollinger. Let's start with you. I'll give you about 30 seconds on that one specific defense cuts that aren't very deep in the defense budget, but they take care of waste. I think we can't be the world's policeman. We can't be the world's bully. We have to work cooperatively with other countries to determine first of all our own direct interest in any International engagement and second of all if we see that involvement another country has some value to this country when we have to work in coordination with other countries for a balance response accounts the cuts to clean the ministration.Shouldn't be too concerned about what well, I'm concerned about cutting the defense too deeply because right now we're sending 16,000 troops to Haiti were talking about sending 70,000 troops to the desert again. I'm afraid we may be spread. It was spreading ourselves to let me just say this really reminds us of the whole foreign policy question. We cannot be the policeman of the world. We can't afford it. We're spreading ourselves too thin before we send troops to Haiti or bazzi or anywhere else. We ought to answer three questions. What's the illegitimate American Mission there? What's the American interest there? And can we achieve the mission with the minimum cost in lives and casually part of the reason the whole issue of Haiti has been so unpopular with the American voters is the Clinton Administration has never adequately answered any of those three questions. Okay. We are just about out of time, but I'll give you each a minute to some up and Gil gutknecht you want the John Hollinger to go first. Is that alright John? I don't want to talk about the contrast in this week.They are much deeper and much more fundamental and we need to discuss them. But the contrast I think a very clear between the two of us. I have been specific about proposals in the deficit and Agriculture and codes of conduct and Del has been General stock rhetoric. I've been specific about the need to have bipartisan cooperation. He always talked very frequently about the partisanship that he enjoys. I think those are two differences in to contrast where I'm in line with the people of this district and guilt not that's why Tenpenny is time and time again Works in my behalf to continue the tradition. He started in this District Gil gutknecht 1 minute, but I would agree that there are some very serious differences between the two of us. I think the debates to be bad have been spirited that I think I'm principal and not not on personalities. I think it's fair to say that the most people would describe me as the conservative in the race and frankly. I think if you look at it a wide variety of issues a John tends to be on the more liberal side. I frankly I did the story that I hear from the voters in in the first congressional district. They want to take a more conservative approach wedge. What's happening and Washington, I think thatTesting out of Washington is sort of same old same old and it while we differ on exactly how we're going to get to a balanced budget then whether or not we will and whether or not the Democrats will ever allow that to come up. I think what the people the first congressional district Juanes is somebody will shake things up in Washington to make a difference and I think if they vote for Gil gutknecht, that's what they're going to get. Okay? Very good. Well thanks to both of you a Republican candidate Gil gutknecht dfl candidate John hot and you're both running for congress in the first district. And that's it from the kzsc studios in Rochester. I'm Mike Mulcahy.You're listening to a pre-election special here on the FM news station. Today. We are focusing on the Congressional races in Minnesota is 1st and 5th districts. This is Gary acted in St. Paul 5th District is centered in Minneapolis Democrat. Martin Sabo has represented the district since 1978 over the years Sable has become a key member of the Democratic Leadership in the house serving as chair of the house budget committee since 1993 Sable is being challenged this year by Republican Dorothy Legrand of Minneapolis corporate attorney. She's the only woman and the only black person running for congress in Minnesota this year. They've been good enough to stop by. Thank you both of you for coming but I thank you Gary now if it's okay, we like to follow the same format as we did with the first district candidates. So to begin I'm going to ask each of you to give me two major issues that you'd like to discuss if there's time I'll add a few issues to the mix and then each of you will have a minute at the end of the half hour to make your pitch to the voters if that's okay Bo two issues you'd like toTalk about there in a half hour. Okay shirt Gary. Yeah and thank you for the invitation to be here to visit to but this campaign and the next session of Congress is the most important issue is how we keep the economy going how we develop the kind of in the economy in this country that produces jobs and it keeps our company country competitive with begun that process in the last two years. We passed matric anomic package, which should I produce two significant deficit-reduction it but has also produced it significant growth in the economy in the last 2 years are economies produced over 4 million new jobs. We need to continue building on that basis. We had physical discipline. We also made basic Investments and research and development Education and Training and in trying to make sure the kids in this country get off to a goodSecond issue. Is that despite did the song that's in the growth? We're having in our economy increasingly income is becoming polarized in our country. I clearly most of the income growth has gone towards the very top and millions of Americans are being left behind. I think that fundamental issue needs addressing part of its education training because that clearly it's part of our country being competitive and our people doing well and Chubbs, but we also have to make sure that people who are in the semi skilled service jobs. We're working hard working full-time have adequate compensation. And that's one of the reasons I'm a strong advocate of a significant increase in the minimum wage. So I would say to the issues about a mental issues are really conomic how we keep our economy competitive and how we deal with some of the income in equities right within our society.In the grand couple issues you'd like to talk about scary. I would like to discuss just for the basic issues in that is balancing the budget because if we aren't balanced the budget and have America strong economically, it's pretty difficult for us to deal with the ancillary issues. And on my second year. She was the reform of Congress. There are so many things that it's a litany and I don't have time to articulate all of them today. But there are a Litany of things that we need to do with Congress first and one we need to sort of a consolidate some of the functions as you would say in the business world, but sits a lot of individuals there have never had private sector has experience that would be I should say an oxymoron but for example, you know, you have committees and subcommittees. You also have the I should say The Heir Apparent the way one ascends to become cheer of a particular committed you have all of the various laws that apply to the private sector like for instance theDiscrimination in Employment Act the Americans Disability Act of civil rights amendment sexual harassment it goes on and on and on that does not apply to Congress and I think Congress really needs to deal with that issue saying if it's going to return Congressional Integrity to its own body. Hopefully it will see fit to comply with some of the laws that it imposes on the private sector and state and local government. Okay. Well that's kind of three issues that we can we can go through first of all, I think both of you want to talk about the economy a little bit. Let's start let's start with that.Is a where do you think we stand right now is the economy parking right along are we heading for a depression or what? What's going on on the economy? What's your what's your reading while you turn me right now is is going quite strongly. The unemployment rate is falling from over 7% under 6% We're producing about 250,000 at new job set. A Monster High inflation is stable under and under 3% in Minnesota. The unemployment rate is dropped from slightly over 5% under 4% Clearly. The economy is moving forward that there is some significant investment in the private sector going on most of the new job creation that's been in the private sector so they kind of me has rebounded very very strongly, but we have to make sure that continues right now. I would not trade our economy for that of any other country in the world that we clearly are moving ahead Japanese Germans.And that were very competitive and which don't have to stay on and stay alert and keep on top of things but we made a significant turn around. I'm assuming they would Martin it says the economy is growing. He's referring to government stimulated the economy and I would look to the private sector in this is where I guess the differences between Republicans and Democrats because Democrats Republicans seem to think that if you're spending Less on the huge deficit we have in the form of, you know, the interest that it's is used to pay the debt owed to service the debt with huge debt that we have that you're using a private savings that should be used by the entrepreneurs or businesses to invest in new products livity or new new equipment in order to expand business isn't just yesterday. I was talking to an entrepreneur who's been very successful when I can't use the individuals name who was saying to me I will notExpand, you know in this country or in Minnesota because of the workers compensation issue because the people like the current Administration who vote against small business 9, * like for instance up the national Federation of Independent Business owners have a Litany of things that keeps keeps it in place or keeps its membership in plays from being able to expand so I would disagree with it and one of the big things like people always use during an election year that we have to increase the minimum wage and it's a very emotional issue as you know, Gary because everyone and have him work for the minimum wage. I know what it's like everyone wants to make sure that every other individual who's out there working earns a decent living but based on my data and and I'll be at provided by Republicans, but it was the Congressional budget office. You raise the minimum wage to just $5.05 you going to have a job loss of approximately 500,000 job.End-stage that job losses go to have an adverse impact on minorities and youth another interesting statistic that I received stage stand those people who are making minimum wages are between 16 years of age and 24 years of age and 80% of my living in non poor households. So that I guess it's sort of like I'm a nude issue or I guess you would say a moot issue because that still does not help that individual who is 34 years ago who is the father or mother of two children or head of household if pushed hard for a raising the minimum wage in I want me to come back to the basics. So what's happening with the economy the job growth in the economy. Today's not been in the public sector. It's in the private sector in the grey that is where the fundamental growth. It's been I think and I'm total but substantially in response to the economic package. We passed a year ago and roundPaying jobs majority of them are good paying jobs. I never like to talk about good and bad job. So I think we talked about Johnson terms of pay the pay scale of most of these jobs are on the higher side and it is a matter of fact, we've been doing the opposite with Federal bureaucracy. We've we're reducing that buy over 270,000 people over a five-year period of time in addition to reducing the number of people in the armed services. So it's a federal employment is going down the job growth that's occurring today is really occurring in the private sector and it's a broad-based growth that's occurring. It's in part consumer-driven it but it is also a significant business investment that's going on in both plant and equipment in this country.The minimum wage do you think I know you would support raising know why I'm a strong advocate of it clearly today. You have people working full-time 40 hours a week. If there is family of 3, they can still be in poverty and I think it has a relationship to the both their sense of well-being and I just simply think that's wrong in his bottom. The end of the wage scale is lagging way behind and the rest is what we have 15 years ago the bottom 40% collectively in our economy hit income roughly twice that of the top 1% today. It's 50-50. We've had a revolution to wear income flows in this country and its continuing and in the bottom and is lagging behind for a variety of reasons Part International part that many service employees are very difficult.Organized by unions and the minimum wage is also lag behind. So I think we need a jump start on the bottom end of the weight scale many studies indicated would not lead to the strawberry reduction that they are Republicans normally say it would and it also has an impact on the budget increasingly weary caught and being called on to supplement the income of people who are working full-time with that such things as food stamps housing assistance just so they can deal with the basic necessities of urban living clearly. We have to deal with the income structure that exist in urban areas in this country and what can be done for the people at the bottom and they're subsidize the income of individuals who at the bottom end of the run. I think what has happened is that over the last 40 years work while Congress has been controlled by democrats it has volunteeredSubsidized the incomes of those who at the Bottom Rung and finally it when he talks about minimum wage. Let's just use an example and I happen to be very familiar with this where you'll have three or four people are from the Southeast Asian Community who are making minimum wage and if you just talk in terms of 4th fifty each for 50 and a family and all for working in to be in about $16 an hour. Maybe that's minimum. But for a family that has aggravated or Consolidated its its wages. It's not really minimum. The thing that really bothers me is that we keep talking about how poor and and how horrible things are that government has to subsidize. He's individual. You must remember Gary that the same government that is talking about people being in the bottom run has been in control for 40 years until he hit it has had plenty of opportunity to fix it, but hasn't and I don't understand how you can.Cannot explain away that I was reading something the other day that it was a statement made a comparison said if the if the first of all you could compare the Democrats to how the Communist party was in control in Russia, you know for 40 years and it's a very good example, even though we have two continents that reportedly not alike. You know, how many is the most socialism whatever you want to call it was in control over 40 years in and Russian look what we have there and we can compare that's what we have here in the end of this country 40 years later Democrats are still talkin about how horrible it is how destitute how we still have these poor people and they've had plenty of time to fix it, but I'm not quite sure if I understand that statement, but the reality is Republicans control the presidency for 20 out of 24 years before Bill Clinton became president, but theIs the trends that are going on an income in this country are the trends that are happening in other countries also and and some and some of it. I think it's caused by government some it's not summer changes in economics. I think they had become more International and trade. I think it's had an impact it is we've lost lure Skilled Manufacturing jobs, which normally paid people enough. So they they could exist to buy a house be their family the number of people in the in labor union to speak restricting the service job. It's an impact on the changing nature of income in this country. So I think it's just a very fundamental issue we have to deal with it has its impact for Working Families it also it clearly has impact on students. What did what is change from the time when I was in college today? Is it so much more difficult?Work part-time and and support yourself and help pay your way through college tuitions going to be much faster than the relative pay for part time job for students in college, but your permit such way and it's through through our economy. And I also discovered that it is their significant variation between what happens in the urban core and Fringe Suburban areas men need a job said in the city are at 5 bucks are at 6:50 or more in as you get to the Suburban French and so they have clearly has Geographic impact. Also what's happening with the pay scale that shift the focus just a little bit losing sponge understand what the Office of the President has to do with the Congress which you know budget gives away money earmarked money and this is something that Martin is very familiar with what it has to do with my statement that Congress has been controlled by democrats forForty years and if if if if that group or that body or that particular party wanted to do something about the ruins within the urban community low wages. All these other things being in control. They have the opportunity to do it. Now. We talked about 800,000 jobs that have been lost within the last 10 years. Yes. I will admit they have been lost by union scale employees, but I would submit if that have been can Maki or early who is now CEO of Dayton Hudson if he have made a loss or experienced a loss like that a day, he would have been replaced. So why don't the union members replace their leadership?You just so we're accurate it Democrats control the house or the Republicans control the Senate from 1981 through 1986 through most of the Reagan years in the presidency of 1968 to we had to Richard Nixon and we had Cherry Ford and then we head down General know the Democrats 4019 a 24 years are those submitted by presidents with some variation and what you've had that you clearly you've had more democratic control of the legislative branch substantially more control of the presidency by the Republican side. Which clearly is the most powerful powerful political office in the world already running out of time here.Budget deficit I know ultimately are we going to have to let see you all are we going to have to raise taxes to come to grips with the deficit and the federal debt? And the Republicans are talking about cutting taxes dramatically. Certainly Democrats aren't leading any charge to raise taxes, but ultimately, isn't that what's going to have to happen? You want to respond? First of all, I am a member the Concord Coalition and that's the one area that I disagree with the Concord Coalition up. I don't think it's not it's not the kind which is not taxed enough it taxes. It just spins too much. And if you ask anyone where you would start cutting everybody tries to avoid the issue number to I'm also I've also taken the oath of Americans for tax reform that while I'm in town was then I will not raise taxes unless there is an offset and the dollar $4 in spending cuts because I get back to my original statement. We have just got to stop spending and I and I don't know how it how others would do it but like for instance in Miami, he was some of the areas that you would cut I found that United States government has Albert 1200 commissions and boards that is subsidizes people to fly back and all over the country to meet and what-have-you. I know for my permit in our area as a zit. I just received a pay back to one of the delegates. Appointed to the library the National Library board. We also have a fleet of Airlines almost. I think it's 1,400 Airlines. So we are competing with the private sector. We are producing helium again compete with the private sector we understand why are Timber week? We subsidize the Metro PCS me for going on in arm, but it's there. It's just that you have people who don't have the Congressional courage to make those tough decision whether you know, you don't people who have been led to believe that there is a free lunch and there isn't continued to type of policy we started last year which was a significant deficit-reduction package, but it was done in such a fashion that it's birdly kind of me then throw us into a recession. So no tax no taxi 495. I see as however continuing to deal with physical discipline that we've adopted adopted very tough caps. And what would the money that we can appropriate each year we have to Keep on ring those the element of the budget that it's going to explode and cost on us as Healthcare. We have to come back to the Health Care issue in 95 find message how we deal with it. The reality that millions of Americans don't have health insurance. But at the same time to do it in such a fashion that we reduce federal expenditures for healthcare that is going to be a key issue for us to Grapple with same time. We also have to examine other entitlement programs see what modifications we can make it so that they continue to serve their function if somebody says that isn't going to bring you in balance in two or three years, but it's going to keep us on the right track if somebody wants to say there quickly going to get in Balance have a big tax. Increase defense has a republican contract saying that simply doesn't add up unless you have devastating Cuts in Medicare Student Loan program education transportation. Action Program the justice system accomplish with what they're promising would take just large large Cuts roughly the numbers are they if you exclude Social Security you need to cut everything else by 30% by 2002. To meet the goals from that contract. Let's spend a minute or two and not any more than that. Frankly on Congressional reform. One thing a Dorothy Legrand. If you had to pick from a full menu of things that absolutely must be done to make Congress work better. What what do you think? As I said restoration of congressional integrity and I'm trying to take that position by stating that I will not accept or participate in a can in the Congressional pensions that fine or the pension plan that they have for congress. I will not accept any cost-of-living allowances or raises while in office because I said you got to you got to sort of set an example people want Congress to be subject. As I said to the Civil Rights Movement Civil Rights Act the Asian Discrimination Act and all of those things that we impose on the private sector and I would like to see Congress say, hey, it's about time that we had we had jurisdiction or those particular ask had jurisdiction over at first that the house has passed information. They have the house to comply to all those rules that apply to the private sector. We also passed the bill, but unfortunately he died in the Senate more. I want to mail reform would be the modification of the Senate filibuster rules which led to a significant part of the gridlock at the end of the the slide session not only on high visibility issues. But I'm also many low visibility issues term limits either one of you or both of you polish to it both of you in favor of what do you think about term limits? I believe that we have term limits today named Lily elections in the house. We run every two years Senate every 6 president every four people have their option in their freedom to make whatever choice they want to make it the city at The Ballot Box. So I think Legrand term limits yay or nay. I'm listening to them. I believe in term limits I want to give each of you a minute here. Wish we had more time. But I want to give each of you a minute to make your best pitch to the voters. Give me an idea of why it is you think they should vote for you on election date next month Dorothy Legrand when we start with you for a minute. I want a balanced budget amendment and they want a line item veto and they want someone in Congress that is hopefully going to listen to the man. I want an individual who is accessible and has been a part of that working-class. You know, I like my my my opponent I have had a job since I got out of college and I've had failures and what not if people want a real individual there who will listen listen to the people and try and represent their needs and their priorities as opposed to being re-elected then they should vote for me. But if they want things the way they have been then I'm sure they will go out. Is Martin said we'll decide that they are not interested in touring limits. They want someone who's been in office a total of 34 years. Thank you, Gary and thank you again for this opportunity to visit. I asked people of the 5th District for their support. I've had to what I consider a very high honor representing them in in the Congress and to ask her for their continued support. I think and believe that I represent the basic priorities and the basic values of this District as we deal with a whole host a complex and tough issues in this country and will contain continue to try and make this country one that it continues to have its economic strength, but also deals justly with all our people appreciate it. Thank you, Canada to Minnesota 5th congressional district, which is centered on Minneapolis or democrat incumbents Martin, Sabo and Republican Challenger Dorothy Legree. Tomorrow we're going to continue our discussion with congressional candidates tomorrow. We're going to turn our Focus to the 4th District and the 6th congressional district for the 4th District will be joined by I am, Congressman Bruce vento and his Republican Challenger Dennis Lewinsky, that's during the first half hour tomorrow and then during the second half hour of the broadcast. We'll be talking with the candidates for the 6th District congressional seat. That's open seats been held by Rod grams. Of course, he's running for the Senate the dfl candidate, but Luther and Republican candidate add. Jude will be here tomorrow. And then looking ahead. If you want to write this down on your calendar on Tuesday of next week. We'll be talking with the candidates for Minnesota 2nd and 3rd congressional districts great opportunity to find out where the candidates stand and we hope you will be able to join us right up to election day Gary I can thanks for tuning in today.