Welcome back to mid-day here on the FM news station. Sure appreciate your joining us today, you know back in the fall of 1967. It was a lot of anger in this country more and more people were having second thoughts about the war in Vietnam and more and more people were taking that anger to the streets but in the fall of 1967 people upset with the war found another outlet for their discontent of political Outlet in the fall of 1967, Minnesota. Senator, Eugene McCarthy announced that he was doing the unthinkable and it was going to challenge incumbent President Lyndon Johnson for the Democratic presidential nomination Senator McCarthy did not win the nomination, but then neither did Lyndon Johnson following McCarthy strong showing in the New Hampshire primary Johnson stepped aside and then that set up a classic confrontation between Minnesota's two leading Democrats Hubert Humphrey and Eugene McCarthy for the presidential nomination McCarthy's campaign profoundly affected the political process both here in Minnesota and around the nation. It also had the side.Benefit of introducing Eugene McCarthy to a lot of people who perhaps hadn't paid all that much attention to him. They found out that McCarthy was first elected to the house back in 1948 was a leading Congressional spokesman for civil rights. He was one of the first politicians in this country to challenge red-baiting Wisconsin Senator, Joe McCarthy imitation. Also found out at that time that the Eugene McCarthy was one of the most literate an funniest man in public life while former Minnesota Senator McCarthy is back in Minnesota this week for a series of speech is around the state and this weekend. He's receiving the president's medal from his alma mater. St. John's University has also been kind enough to stop by our Studios to spend the hour and take your questions Senator. Thanks for coming by appreciate it. You're living the good life out in Virginia was good life, but it's it's it's calm enough and all right, and I still vote here and say Paul, but physically I spend more time down there, right?I did say good one time when I was asked I said, we don't Minnesota become the mother of democratic vice presidents and I thought I might try Virginia which has been the mother of democratic presidents but it hasn't changed very much has worked out yet. Yet since you're right there. First of all, what do you make of the decision by Disney? Not to go ahead with its theme park. Well, I was relieved not very deeply involved but I wrote a few things about it among those who were protesting at then I'm 40 miles west of it but to get to where I live I have to go through the traffic that was headed for for the new Disney park with that was the primary consideration. I've had a slight disagreement with the argument made by some of the people who opposed it who said, you know, we shouldn't put it in historic site and my position was it should never be billed any place because it's really of a basic corruption.But we should learn about history. It's not so bad. If this is the kind of kurupts Mickey Mouse and the Caribbean pirates and things like that when they begin to to actually have a method they call the Disney Experience a kind of conditioning processes. We see they kind of take total control of you and and transform your way of thinking they were going to do this with history, which I thought was a mistake and so it seems to have worked now. What about that? The other big story out of Virginia is Oliver North these days. I understand that he is in a good position may actually win the senate seat from Virginia to make it that I'm glad I don't have to go down there. I wouldn't want to take responsibility for either Rob or or or North. I I thought that if they'd really asked me I would have said why don't you just get behind Wilder who's a pretty good fellow?And he was a better Prospect I think but it's it it's looks like showdown between north and Rob now in North East pretty difficult guy to campaign against so the Waze program is ridiculous ease. I think he's get ready to go to amend the Constitution and six ways. I think if he says he is always going to get elected a but he that people are taking him. Seriously despite his problems with Iran Contra, Virginia is a kind of funny state. They they elect elect some kind of strange people that kind of swings in Virginia. There is a massive resistance in Virginia to desegregation and then the elect the black man is Governor like 10 years later and they have a woman attorney general but they're anti-feminist. So it's hard to predict. Let's go to the phone's right away. A lot of callers on the line at Steve is calling from Saint Paul. Go ahead.Condemnation of the process Congressional pensions are approximately twice as generous as pensions in. Private to private sector and fact, I remember three or four years ago seen a tattoo, two story in the Minneapolis paper. I believe that had your name on a dollar figures along with into something like Senator Eugene former Senator Eugene McCarthy trials X number of dollars in pension. Annually all I remember was the figure at I don't remember exactly what it was. I remember being rather shot isn't your pension something like a six-figure amount annually or better and know it's actually about to there's a cost of living thing with it. It's about $50,000. So it's it's half of what you think it is. And it's rough and I was there 22 years and I sue if I'd been in private business. I'd had a pension it was probably twice as much as it is. So but there are some of the accumulated not just service but added in government service and and military service so they added it up to where it it's I think the patches some of them are extreme, but the basic pension that I get I don't think it's unreasonable to callers on the line with a question for a Senator McCarthy from Robbinsdale. Just a quick question about the the proliferation of talk radio shows that are so very popular. And also why don't we can show us of a conservative nature just sling mud and and really don't don't do you don't have to have no alternate? Hillary I would like to know what the two senators thoughts are on that is as far as trying to put something productive into Healthcare when I think it was an honest effort made but nothing was done and it was just totally destroyed by by big money and dance with me to talk radio hosts have too much power. I don't know because the counter talk radio host should be able to stand against someone like living. Well, it may be because of the extreme music. Donnelly gets the TV audience, but the Press picks it up, so it's multiplied and it shouldn't be its kind of afraid of a speech saying as long as we have none limbo people who can talk. I think we just have to take a chance on it. Do you think members of Congress pay too much attention to what happens on on talk shows? comedian General Well, I'm kind of sympathetic to radio. I think the best time in politics was before I got in but between about 1930 and 1960 you had radio coming in as a car to control, press and Roosevelt the Roosevelt. Was probably the high point of it wouldn't would he use radio as you can stand against McCormick and her student in the conservative press of the time and it was still operative when I ran in 48 and then actually continue it until about 1960 after the kennedy-nixon the kennedy-nixon debate would have happened anyway, but with the intervention of Television the whole kind of orderly political discussion, is it developed radio in the Press was it was all but destroyed there are people who say that we have lost the art of any kind of real political conversation in this country and that the best you can hope for is to see people's attention for 30 seconds or so, and that's true. History of Television of political communication. I'm still rather hopeful in believing that radio is is still the best way to communicate politics and actually Ronald Reagan did that in the years before he ran he had radio shows and in and was able to talk to people when you got to be present that of course you use injectors of the television theme, but he had a divisor who suppose he's figured it out said, you know, we can't have Reagan presented first as a kind of movie actor who we have to pretend you first as someone with whatever his ideas are. And I thought it was a very wise sort of approach to it. So what he came on he had the idea is out before then you just had the appears to go with it. But more recent candidate you get the appearance first and and then the ideas if there are any back to the phones Elliott's on the line with a question for Senator McCarthy. What is this? What do you think about the six are sending troops into Haiti? I didn't quite get any do you think it was a good idea to send US troops on Haiti? Well, I wasn't ready cuz I'll drive jet as long as they're not shooting. I can't second-guess thing. But I think if you don't know what to do, and I don't think you know what to do. You don't start shooting people. And the case of Haiti. I don't think anyone knows quite what to do if I will happen there. I've been there once or twice and and it's it's pretty chaotic situation. So the saying I was not a good idea going and was not a good idea and if we begin to to to shoot people in the great numbers why it have to conclude it was a bad idea. There's something in the way of absolute the factor that comes in when you're being killing people you then look back and talk about it was like Vietnam what you reach a certain voided Kelly people those were doing it have to Justified on more than ordinary ground up to now, they're the real fault as we haven't had a Caribbean policy of any consequence since John Kennedy first announce the alliance for progress and that never got very far because we got into the Cuban Invasion and and then we got into Vietnam so that it was neglected. But that was the last I think Really worthwhile policy or projection of a policy that the country had next thirty some years ago. What do you make of the role that Jimmy Carter played in working out this agreement to allow the US troops to land without getting shot at is this a good used to good thing for former presidents to be doing. Well, it might be but I would never send Jimmy Carter it to the go she ate anywhere. Why is that if I were president what is nothing in the record that indicates that he was a great negotiator? And I think he is President's Takei to support his policies. You may remember when he was pushing the North American Free Trade Agreement. He had five presidents. All who said we're for it at least five. I think of American president ever had five in a row who were so inept in in in physical and economic policy. So here we are the people I'm supposed to wear to be conditioned by having these five former failures. Tell us we have to be for NAFTA and Jimmy was one of those so I could call and probably did the same with Paul. He came out of the White House. It was just a newscast and he was wearing civilian clothes and and and he said I'm for NAFTA Powell. Yo, what are his credentials and so is it well, he was in charge of the Pentagon which is the third largest economy in the world or something like that economy the way you do others and he went back in the white house with sort of like what you bringing people in like that is sort of stand him up just as Witnesses without any credentials You're right. You're in danger and to do the same say they was Jimmy Carter. I thought was high risk on the part of Clinton and I would hesitate if I'd be present to send Jimmy carryout to negotiate wages. He he hears voices, you know, buddy being born in about talking to Jesus and things like that. And Jesus didn't make much of a record on foreign policy. Go back to the following is not a callers on the line with a question for you. Jean McCarthy. Marvin is on the line for Minneapolis. Thank you for taking my call and thank you Senator McCarthy for your service to the state and the nation and and humankind and for your principles, which does leave me a little puzzled. However on one issue. given the closeness of the race in 1968 You think that you withheld your support? public support for Hubert Humphrey until the night before the election actually 10 days before but which is different from the night before that. I don't think there's anyone who was waiting for me to endorse him that didn't know that I had endorsed and I haven't found anyone who said if I had endorsed you earlier that have been for him or if I had endorsed him more enthusiastically. I tell you what he had to do. He had either took to come out against the war which is very difficult for him because he's been for it and we start our campaign. Against Hubert Humphrey and not even against Lyndon Johnson but against the war and so it was just a war after Johnson was due as it was when he was still in it. He just passed the burden of responsibility onto to Humphrey and Humphrey. I just said you could repudiate the war but he could have one or two occasions at the time. We were waiting indicate that he was at least independent of the Johnson influence and we were Almost ready to endorse in the middle of September. He made a speech indicated that he was thinking of some kind of troop withdrawals. You made the Salt Lake City and I think two days later Johnson made him retract. It was a very modest and we said that's all we need is a sign of independence from Johnson and Humphrey was Julius position from the position to take until we just for Holy out to see whether we couldn't get some sign from him. Of an openness with reference to Vietnam policy we were to ask you for very much. So I I don't feel the burden was really on the side of the moon free people to make some concession do that after all we beat him in every Primary in which they faced us whether it was me alone or Bobby Kennedy and when that happens it is what we set out to prove is that Almost a majority of you, even if it wasn't a majority of the democratic party wanted some change in policy and they refuse to do it. What do you think would have happened had Humphrey beat Nixon in 1968. The war would have ended sooner or would we have I think it's been about the same. The same yeah, it just was moved a little farther and and got his more and more involved Nixon got into Cambodia cuz this has been proposed earlier. So you got to go to Cambodia got to fight the whole area and and I don't You see that Humphrey Humphrey objected when the Eisenhower Administration refused to give the French support Indian been to so hit a long commitment to to involvement in south-eastern Asia. I said was critical of the Republican turnout to the franchise for air support at the end been feeling in Dallas and Eisenhower didn't give it. Let's go back to the phones are the colors on the line. Nancy has a question for Senator McCarthy vertical bestiary Kilpatrick illustrations by Jeff macnelly. I think it's not a prince. But in any case, I'm wondering how the two of you managed to get together The Virginian about the only thing we had in common was kind of a decent respect for the language in the book was designed to Sort of to take words that were being used but we're not understood and we thought that if we put it in the form of a bestiary that people who would hear a word like a viable alternative was really doesn't mean much. Nobody knows what what's a non viable alternative for a viable one and we thought that maybe if we attempted to explain the uses animal characters in McNally did a drawing Her that he would either not talk about viable alternatives are if they did they'd have a better understanding and we took where is it would be accused of that kind the budgetary shortfall know what's a budgetary shortfall and McDowell. He drew a picture of a chicken that has fallen over a cliff and was lying on his back with his feet up in the air. So after that anyone who saw the word budgetary shortfall with would have a somewhat better comprehension of what it matter what it didn't mean kind of wood language that's used in Washington today. Do you think some of it is? Next unintelligible is are those words used to deliberately deceive people and confuse them and keep the public at a distance or is it just a kind of laziness or refusal to be more? I think it's a little bit of both but I suppose classical example was the changes in language that went with the war in Vietnam, which went beyond or will I will send you begin to use latinize. Where is like pacification? He said his when you drive the people out on the road and burn the village and what you call it pacification should you use a lap nice word to cover the kind of obscene landscape, but in Vietnam, they went beyond that they they used it a little bit like Vietnamization, you know and Vietnamese and they use pacification, but they then went to moving from kind of establish language to quantification. We got a things like kill ratio. You didn't say how many people who is killed or how many were killed but you said the ratio was 4 to 1/4 of them two to one of us and they say will the ratio has improved so they can take your mind away from the reality of the Des the two of kind of a mathematical thing like watching the stock market reports and the Pentagon said that they didn't develop that standard but it's pretty clear that they did somebody down there said look let's let's change this way of reporting and it was at one point sort of accepted that and they would make it a even say well as long as we can keep if we can kill 12 of them and only lose three of us, which is food South Vietnamese. We're winning the war if it got to where we can only kill 12 of them and we lose 5 So the breakpoint was 12 to 4 and these were presented with these figures as arguments as to why women except that the war was was was progressing. It is a new kind of language of interpretation that came up in Vietnam. We never used in any other war and you know, I have another stage and which should not a war develop a name from where it was bought or how long it lasted. The World War II Korea. Now, the Pentagon name is the war before. It starts. They tell you what you're going to call it Desert Storm that didn't didn't come would never have come out of the action itself, but they said this is the end of the Panamanian thing. They called operation just cause and it's in the record. This is Just Cause is the name of the war is ridiculous. And and in the Haitian thing, I hate to call. Support democracy is it is not a code name. This is the name of the Pentagon wants to have to have as a name of record and Jose just do where are Nixon when he went to Cambodia he did it, but they didn't they call it an incursion which was an interesting word cuz we've never had an incursion before it was different from an invasion. You say well, why would they use incursion? Are you all you speak of an incursion of cockroaches or bed bugs or mice? You know, it's not a very Noble word and I think about it leaves you without full responsibility cuz there's no verb for it. You can't even curse like you can invade you say will you get baited you cash that you incur say say what I mean. This is just a half day. It's the exit and encouraged that we didn't even curse. So it is voiding particular at and I see the state department the other other day have it word for what's going on in Haiti. They call it an insertion. And I've been able to figure out what that means yet, but it's a new word they go so we didn't it wasn't even an incursion. It was an insertion but you can insert so that's a little bit more positive. I guess in the encouragement which has no verb lots of colors are on the line with questions for former Senator Eugene McCarthy. Let's go back to the phone. So we got to a caller from Superior. Mike is on the line. Hello. Hello Senators real pleasure to be able to talk to you today. I'd like to take it back in time back to the spring of 68 when you were running for the nomination of your party against President Johnson. And you were campaigning in Wisconsin to too short time before the Wisconsin Primary that President Johnson came on TV in and out of the nation host some new policy about the war in Vietnam, but at the end of it he made an announcement that he would not seek and would not accept the nomination of his party that night. I were in the same place you were speaking to a group at Carroll College in Waukesha, Wisconsin. And I was one of your admiring college-age fans at the time. I remember remember and we didn't know what John said. He was speaking at the same time that I was speaking weather that was in any way I anticipated by you or by people your campaign, but I sure remember the very dramatic moments. I wanted to ask you a question right after your speech refer to LBJ from the back of the room. Someone who might not have someone who must have been listening to the radio while it was depressed people who are not quite following Johnson was speaking at the same time, so they had to either a radio or television set out in the back room. And someone from the back of the auditorium yelled, he's not going to run that's right, whether it was an anyway anticipated. Well, they're asking me for a comment and I said we hold comment on this now, but if it was an experience I had I was watching the news on when Marcus resigned in the Philippines and I saw the people faces of people at the street and there was a kind of a very strange looking. Ecstatic excited. But so somehow they've been set free and I got say I thought I seen your face is like that somewhere and I got I'm trying to think of where it was and I and I finally said it was Carroll College when we brought in the price brought that where did the Johnson had wasn't going to run and the look of relief and kind of exaltation on the face of the people in that Hall. I said that that's where I saw it and the next time I recognized it was in the streets of Manila and of course of the Johnson withdrawal was not comfortable in terms of our politics to that of Marcus's resignation. But the people in the auditorium Armory, I think it was him and Carroll College was it was almost the same and I saw it once after that at the time that the Berlin Wall came down so that the that particular. Of time all butthurt minutes in in Wisconsin was one in which the reflection of something of what I thought was a good of the campaign was reflected in you were there when he announced he was going to run again. Did you think you were going to be nominated and elected president at that point what we never really ran for president, you know, I was only in about five primary before Bobby came in and we wanted to establish that maybe twenty or twenty-five 30% of the people of Democratic party were against the war that this would force some change in policy on the part of of Johnston the Mets been a mistake. I guess you can't, you know, you can't I have a compromise on half of War really as you Good saved if we had an argument over Dairy price supports or something and but we thought we were going to have an influence well two or three things. We've thought we might have an influence on the policy. We were sure we're going to give people who are against the war a chance to have some way of expressing their opposition, which has been denied to them up until that time. And thirdly I I think we thought that if we could win. That you would create up some questions in the minds of the people who are running the war about the paper had sort of moral certainty. We say we look it's not so moral and don't be so certain and maybe that they would begin to think about a change in position which included Johnson and also Humphrey and some of the others who were supporting the war and but we never if we if we had if any such thing might have been coming on us it would have had to come I guess between New Hampshire and the two days later when Bobby Kennedy came in so we might have had two days and that he could stop me from getting the nomination. If it ever got to that point. We also knew we could stop him what she didn't know. but that was about it. But wait after he said when he was assassinated we felt we couldn't even carry on the issue that we were trying to carry on at the convention. We got to believe him as a campaign went along and when he came in together, we might be able to capacity anti-vietnam plank at the convention with. To get nominated and it could have been Humphreys the candidate than he could have accepted the the conventions decision as Harry Truman accepted the Civil Rights decision in 48 and said I wasn't ready for it but my parties for a run on it, but once Kennedy was assassinated we knew that about half of his people were we're not really against the war. They were for Bobby. Kennedy could have been for invading China. And that we would lose them on the anti-war plank and then we did. Take another color of Lenny you're on your up. Next year. Hello. Hello was issued. Did you have any doubts to its validity or withheld information? And if so, did you have any impression of a cover-up? I don't know about that about information withheld or cover up but I didn't approve of the of the procedure of the Warren Commission. Oh that there were two things one President Johnson wanted to the commission report to come out very quickly and there was no reason for that. But he believed that this had to be somehow could be put aside and in the country would not be it would not be disturbed and agitated. He wanted to get it over quickly and the commission. I hate mood way too soon or too fast in the second thing. He did was to take a person's like Earl Warren. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is not going to put him in charge. Then I'm going to take dick Russell the presents and put him on it. And so and so and so and so so that That whatever report came out. He thought would have the force of having it approved by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court by and by the head of the Senate. So he would he would please name should be on the report and he thought that once that was done that people wouldn't question it which was a serious mistake of of judgment on his part and I think they'd hurry the report. I don't know whether if it did run for another two or three years, it would have been very different but I think the latter trying to get it out fast and it being willing to put on the line the Chief Justice principally in a report which you knew was not going to be based upon any kind of sorrow or judicial like inquiry this without of America President Johnson Heat. He really didn't have full respect for institutions of government if he could exploit one to accomplish a purpose, he would do it. He changed the senator the kind of House of Representatives what you should have done when he was Majority Leader. You said let's not have a debate in the Senate. Let's have lots of roll calls and committee meetings and keep the same movie which is not the role of the Senate and then on Vietnam, he sort of change the House of Representatives in the Senate by by teen the house as though it had the same responsibilities for foreign policy that the senate had to when he got done you couldn't tell the house from the you know, in terms of fixing responsibility. And as I said, you did the same thing with he did the same thing with the Chief Justice and with spread to send it in and what do you hope you're being accepted support of the Warren Commission report away with the filibuster rule over here a fair amount about that given all the talk. This is the reformed rule which was a bad rule the old one. I kind of held with slight modifications in the old rule which was it was a very serious matter when you feel a busted under the old rule it was it was trial by ordeal life or death of me and you really had to be prepared to suffer physical disorder if you started a filibuster were serious about and if what they did in the reform was to allow the kind of technical filibusters you have now, we're one guy without suffering any distress condition filibustered obstruct, and I'd I'd rather have them. Go back to the old rule or else to modify this one significant cuz it's a bit sibad Rule and in and of course, it's I don't say it's being abused if you got a bad Rule and you said it's not abuse that should have had sense enough not to pass it. I'll give you a sample of this is was way operated it has to do with the field, but he was against changing the filibuster rule to keep it and when circumstances are right, you can really always break the filibuster. That was already in 63 and some reason they were five of us in his office said you're out for you and I and send her my skiing two senators from Michigan. And Johnson said we should have a civil rights fight right now pair of the Kennedy administration decided to finesse it through the 64 election before we have a legislative Showdown. And Johnson said we ought to do it right now. Either we have the strength to do it. And he started down the list of anti civil rights senators of Southerners. And I don't remember just what illness went with each Senator, but he he had a medical judgment on every one of them. You said Harry Byrd just got out of the hospital. He's from Virginia and he said ellender from Louisiana is in the hospital said dick Russell of Georgia think she's got cancer of the throat. Somebody had diabetes and somebody had high blood pressure and he said they're only two anti-civil rights Senators who are able-bodied. And he said we could break them down into weeks with a filibuster. That's a short filibuster and Linda. That's the kind of he was good at you kind of size up a situation. Even if it's been real killing a couple of them. He said him and that's when he said we got to do it sometime we might as well do it when they're week instead of doing it when the strong call the weak ones from the herd them out Dorothy, Burnsville is on the line that Dorothea welcome to the show understand you want to hear a poem. Yes, I'm wondering if we can move from the world of politics to the realm of poetry and I was wondering if the senator would be good enough to read us a poem or perhaps recite one of his here, but I can recite some but I don't know which one to put on the air. Please anyone anyone try to do one that's a little bit political. Thank you. I didn't want us not really sure but it is sort of relation to Lyndon Johnson that you just tell me about Lyndon. One of his tests of people was to take him out on the ranch. And they drive out in the shooting car. You come to a deer and he'd say shoot it. He give you the gun to shoot it and then you have the head modded. Are you give you the modded head and then you'd have the meat ground into sausage? And you could just give the sausage to your friends. There's several story about two of them one involves John Kennedy. He took him out on the ranch between the time they were elected before they were sworn in had Kennedy shoot a deer. And there's some dispute as to whether Jack today. There was a secret service shot at but he kept after Kennedy in the White House say where is the head of the deer? But I had mounted for you till he finally hung up and in Senator Humphreys Memoirs says that Linda took him out. It was 1964. And it came to a deer and Linden said you shoot it said never said I did but I didn't like to do it cuz I don't I don't like to shoot animals and they went a little farther with another deer in Linden said shoot that one too. And you said I shot the second one. And this is what lady was playing around with the vice president's he said and then the Memoir say Linden said die you're even with Bobby Kennedy and you're one ahead of McCarthy. I never shot a deer in my life. But you just say you shoot it. I saw you do it. I'm going to have the head mounted and you're going to put it up in the office. And I did a poem called Community. I should add one more thing. Giving me some of the sausage. And I brought it home and I'll I said you want me to cook it for you. I said no. I'm not going to eat it and she said but why did she give it to a friend? I said I don't want a friend to eat that sausage. So we'll give it to somebody you don't like what I don't want anybody to eat that sausage. It's the kind of a communion thing and I'm against it. Anyway, I wrote the poem says the deer was solicitude Solace and with salt comforter with apples. Prepare them for the man who will come a stranger with an unfamiliar gun. I watch your calls and Trust the head turns between the address of st. Hubert's cross Burns and no conversion to David quick shot that buck drops to his knees and decent genuflection to death the door, please he is not dead. In 3 weeks, he will rise the head would look from the wall that was changed eyes and one of the body of the lights Dustin swifter sole witness ground hard muscle intestinal case tied with gristle a sausage sacrament of communion, so that all may be one under the transplanted eyes of the Watcher. The only Liberty we took was the suggested when Lyndon had the head-mounted. He didn't put in facsimile of his of the deer's eyes but of his own. That's poetic license is not the reality as far as I know. Hello. Say I was watching the TV S series on baseball and it got me to read your reread your essay on the Great Salt Lake is a great essay really enjoyed that again, and I kind of missed that perspective in the in the series actually little more on Taxi. I sent that to Burns. I'm a little disappointed that he hasn't used it not to credit me. But but the idea isn't it? I thought it would help the program but I got question as we are near October now, we know World Series. What do you think about that summer saying this will end baseball it might it might end the major leagues, but it won't read it. In fact baseball might be a little better. If something did happen to the major leagues to kind of Shake It Out and and get it. Back to where it was, but it's hard to deal with because you sort of Television feeds back and effects everything it kind of corrupt politics. And and I think it has a corrupting effect on. Television news casting the same similar effect upon the sports even on even on baseball. Although I don't mind if it corrupts football a little bit though, cuz I feel differently about football. I watch professional football games. I Gemelli wish both sides could lose why they well I kind of deserve it. It should have gone gaming and basketball you don't care. You know, it's like it's like a show like the best professional basketball game is always see the All-Pro lineman. They don't play defense. You just make moves, you know, I'll just watch it go I said it's like like juggling or something like that her gymnastics but in the case of baseball. I hate to see either team lose in baseball because of the nature of the game and how personal it is and and And so what you going to do with it what they're doing with it now why it it upsets me and I'm sorry about it and I did propose about a month ago and then we could talk to problems. If they do what I said one was to get rid of the last communist government in the Western Hemisphere and the other at the same time get a commissioner of baseball because they all say we need a dictator until we got one and Cuba. We just transfer fee Dell. And making baseball commissioner with all of his powers and and restore democracy in in Cuba. He was actually Scottish, you know, so you got it frustrated major leaguer. In the back in the 50s OU Washington Senators are the most southern team in the owner. Clarke Griffin wouldn't play Black American black. So he went to Central America. Football players and guardians of sorry, he he he picked up Camilo Pascual him some of you remember he came on pitched in and Pedro Ramos, but they also Scott of the third picture Fidel Castro and they didn't take it. So what you got is a guy who is potential Major League player thought he was and if you get rejected, I'm told at that level that it didn't used to just set you up to do strange things for a restaurant or something and dressing them and making a tie with a I read somewhere that you ran in and Vermont or dissatisfied with all the government bureaucracy involved with that and what you think between business. Kind of address environmental problems are government for individuals with nonprofits and all the problems we have with trying to raise money. Well, it's it's a little I really haven't other than we were involved in that here. When I was in the Senate do we have the whole question of the Wilderness Area which was which was probably a kind of revolutionary act we set up for the Wilderness. Are you here? Because it involves really moving in on it an area. We should tell people they're claiming could they could use as they wish the only thing I said about recently isn't as it part of NAFTA specially but the whole kind of free trade that what we're doing. Is setting up a world supply of labor. Let America labor don't have to compete with the cheapest layer that can be found any place in in the world and also a potential to exploit raw materials every place in the world. So the two protections that we've been concerned about environmental services in the use of resources are prejudiced as Prejudiced and so is the kind of protection we tried to build up for labor and international markets and we kind of move into a modern version of the enclosure movement which recurred about every hundred years. We getting in the 13 to 14 century when they displace the workers in the serfs and started to raise sheep and then and the factory system. We stayed the same thing to two spinners and Weavers in the people who used to do these things privately and we now have said and you read the newspaper reports or 5 a.m. Lays off 10,000 people that Their stock goes up. And you have to say what they've got to be an explanation for this to accept. That any business or the whole economy, if it if the gross national product improves our profits and prove by your firing people. Does this justify the firing? Does it know I don't think it does I I think we ought to be redistributing work. I just General Motors strike down. They said that they're striking because they're made to do work more overtime. Then they can stand or want to do and The news report a year or so ago with it if we could redistribute the overtime be worked in our economy. It would take care of three million unemployed. Let's say let's get lawn mower collar on anyway, Jeff go ahead and just becoming aware of politics like to hear a little historical perspective on your opposition to the Vietnam War and maybe if there's time about some of your ideas about how are contact of the Cold War actually contributed to attending General. I didn't think we were running the Cold War, right and Vietnam was really just a part of it the the idea that the North Vietnamese were, you just seem to justify and motivate to Dallas and Ruskin Johnson so that it was pretty taken out of any kind of historical perspective. But I suggest people who want to look at it should say how would this whole development look if 50 years from now. I was reading an accurate historical report of how it developed and how it was fought. And I said that I took a course in Historical Method analysis the university when I was in graduate school, and I actually started said to myself as I looked at. I just got to step aside. So I ordered involved here and see what kind of conclusions I would have made about this war. If I was passing judgment a hundred years after it was over. And I think they'd have been just about the kind. I may say this this doesn't make any sense of people running. It don't know why it's being fought and the people fighting at don't know where they can win and that meanie in the Vietnam War was really not it didn't even come on to it. So I can two years like World War II, we had 20 years to look at it start again 45 its involvement in the Eisenhower commitments and of special adviser the Kennedy commitment of the special troops and then the commitment by Johnson and then the Cambodian thing so it wasn't as though you had to make a snap judgment you had almost 20 years to see this thing developing Center. We're just about out of town, but I have to ask you what with the contest with Humphrey relations with the dfl party here in Minnesota. If not been the best of dfl party is 50 years old now. Have you been officially rehabilitated now? I haven't been I was invited to speak to cut of a subgroup here last week, but the main How do you say I hadn't had me I was going to say since 68 but they didn't even let me speak in 68, so I have to go back to 67 but that is part of the followers Humphrey and I never have even had to be reconciled cuz we start anew what was involved. The last thing you said to me was about two weeks before he died. They had him out for some kind of fundraiser for his program here. And he said in the speech is where they did. Let me speak to a lot of bad speeches and he said Genius, I wish we could have one more of those. Good night. She said you could give a few jokes and philosophy that I'd give the politics in the pep talk. He said the guest speaker would be afraid to come on. Well Center, what's in the what's in your future. Now? What do you use any thought about running for office again. Very much. So I get restless and can't pay you should know cuz I think it's a time when you can kind of educate people raise issues 92. I really wanted to raise three or four issues that were not raised and with my father live to be ninety eight. And so I have potential to run at least five more times for the presidency if thanks a lot for coming today to run appreciate it. I hope you have a good rest of the visit. You're here through Saturday in Minnesota, right? We get them are honoring the members of the 1935 championship hockey. Team one which I played well congratulations. That guy was the high scorer. How you play. How do you like that hockey and back baseball? That's right. Thanks a lot for coming by for Minnesota. Senator Eugene McCarthy and thanks to all of you who've been with us through the hours specially those of you who called in with your questions and comments or tried to a lines were pretty well full for most of the hour. Now tomorrow here on the day. We're going off to the National Press Club Barbara Jordan who is now the commissioner of the US Commission on immigration reform speaking of the Press Club tomorrow. There's a new report out on immigration reform at in this country and will hear with Barbara. Jordan has to say tomorrow live broadcast from the national Press Club on Gary I can thanks for tuning in today.