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[MUSIC PLAYING] GARY EICHTEN: And good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Eichten. This is not the easiest time to be a sports fan, what with fist swinging, NBA players charging after fans in the stands, what with some of baseball's biggest stars being outed in the steroid scandal, what with a Timberwolves star getting suspended for vulgarity, this after being blasted for arrogance, what with the U of M reporting that relatively few student athletes actually graduate from the U. No doubt about it, these have been trying times for sports fans.

But not all the news has been depressing. In fact, earlier this year, we were treated to one of the most uplifting and inspiring stories to come along in a long, long time. Maybe you remember, last August, former University of Minnesota and former Minnesota Vikings football star Carl Eller was inducted into the National Football League Hall of Fame. It took an inexplicable 25 years. But finally this year, Carl Eller was formally recognized as one of the greatest football players of all time.

Now that in itself would make for a nice enough story, excellence of local athlete finally rewarded and all. But what really made the Carl Eller story so terrific was the national attention that Mr. Eller received for his acceptance speech. There were the usual thank yous, of course, during his speech.

But Carl Eller, who has spent his post-football life working with a variety of drug rehab and local social service programs-- he also had a lot to say about some important issues that go far beyond the world of sports. It was a great speech. It was a great story at the time, and it made for a great midday at the time.

Well, this weekend, Carl Eller will be honored at the Vikings football game at the dome. And we thought it would be interesting to catch up on the Carl Eller story. He's come by our studios today to talk about his induction, his speech, and what's happened since.

And if you'd like to join our conversation, we invite you to give us a call, 651-227-6000. That's our Twin City number, 651-227-6000, toll-free number 1-800-242-2828. You can also send in your question or comment online. Just go to our website, minnesotapublicradio.org and click on Send a Question. Carl Eller, welcome back to Midday.

CARL ELLER: Well, thank you, Gary. It's really a pleasure to be back.

GARY EICHTEN: Big doings at the Metrodome. First of all this weekend, I suppose all the old Vikings coming back?

CARL ELLER: Well, look, quite a few of the guys are coming back. The report is that all of the Hall-of-Famers will be back, and so all the guys that played during my time-- a lot of them will be back. It's going to be a great weekend.

GARY EICHTEN: That should be fun for you.

CARL ELLER: It is fun. Whenever we're together, it's just like no time has passed, except that none of us walk very straight these days.

[LAUGHTER]

GARY EICHTEN: Any of you planning to suit up, it looks like the Vikings could use a little help.

CARL ELLER: No I don't think you'll get many takers on that.

[LAUGHTER]

GARY EICHTEN: Now, I know some folks simply didn't get a chance to hear your speech last summer or may have forgotten what you had to say or simply want to hear it again. So I'd like to play some excerpts from that before we get started, OK?

CARL ELLER: All right.

GARY EICHTEN: Now, you talked about coming to Minnesota from the segregated South in 1960 to play football at the U, talked about how you were able to take advantage of that opportunity to get a college education. You went on to a Hall of Fame pro career with the Vikings. But you also talked about some of the lessons you learned, and let's hear what you had to say.

[AUDIO PLAYBACK]

- I have a question. And I ask the question, to what do I owe this great honor? And it's a good one. What can I do with this great honor of being inducted to the Football Hall of Fame Class of 2004? My answer is, I want to use this platform to help young African American males to participate fully in this society.

I know that we must give young African American men a message that will lead them in the direction differently where from many of them are headed today. I want them that direction to be headed towards the great universities and colleges of our nation, not to the prisons and jail cells.

[CHEERING, APPLAUSE]

African American young men, as well as young women, must know that they are part of the establishment and not separate from it, that they are part of this great America. They must know that their parents and grandparents and their grandparents' parents before them helped build this great country.

[CHEERING]

And parents, yes, we do have a great challenge before us, maybe the greatest in history. And that is we must teach our kids the value and importance of education, teach them to be members of this society, to participate fully, and have a respect for country, laws, and customs. Show them that if they want this country to do the right thing, that we must do the right thing, and to teach our children to be actively involved in everything that's going on in this country.

Barack Obama is a fine young man and a great example, but he is not unique. Contrary to what we see in our media-controlled establishment, where, in a media-dominated society which has focused on the negative in the African American communities and other communities of color, there are hundreds if not thousands Barack Obamas out there.

We must educate our children. That's the paramount challenge. Like Bill Cosby says, we must give our children books. But first, we must know what books to give them. Books to help them understand our economy, books on technological and scientific and biological advances being made every day, books on relationships, not just with each other, but on our foreign neighbors, and certainly books on how to participate in our political system.

Promise-- I promise young men and women, and I specifically say again to African American males because it seems that our country has turned its back on you. And it seems that some areas have even given up hope.

I am here today to say, I haven't given up on you. And you need to know because I know that you have the talent. You have the intelligence, and now you have the opportunity to make right of this great occasion. And I'm calling on you now to do the right thing.

Don't let all of the hard work of your forefathers have done to make this a great country go to waste. Young men of African American descent, hear me now. It breaks my heart, and it breaks all of our hearts. This is not your future your forefathers have built for you. This is not the future that we fought for in the '50s and '60s and '70s.

What breaks our heart is to see you involved in gangs and selling drugs and killing each other. That breaks our hearts. We put our lives on the line so that you could enjoy the freedoms that we enjoy today. We put our lives on the line yesterday so that someone-- there could be a Barack Obama today, and there could be a Carl Eller today. And there could be other Hall of Famers sitting before you today.

So now I stand here and say to you, if the future of America is to be strong, you must be strong. You must hear the cries of our forefathers and pick up the fight that has helped to make this country great and help make it what it is today. Know that you're loved and respected, and we have high hopes for you, maybe higher than what you imagine. But if this country is to be a winner, you are to be a winner.

To be a winner takes two things, and I think those two things are courage and commitment. It takes courage to be a winner. If you have courage, you can overcome. You can conquer fear, and you can conquer despair. And you must be committed to your goals and to your cause.

And commitment means being bound to a course of action spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually. These two things separate the winners from the losers, and you must be a winner not losers. And you can tell the winners from the losers.

Here's how you can tell the winners from the losers. The winner is always part of the answer. The loser is always part of the problem. The winner always has a program. The loser always has an excuse. The winner says, let me do it for you. And the loser says, [CHUCKLES] that's not my job.

The winner sees an answer for every problem, and the loser sees a problem in every answer. The winner sees a green near every sand trap. The loser sees two or three sand traps near every green. The winner says, it may be difficult, but it is possible. And the loser says, it may be possible, but it's too difficult.

Ladies and gentlemen, young men, young ladies, especially the young men that I'm talking to, be the winners. Be the winners! God bless you! Thank you very much. Thank you.

GARY EICHTEN: Former Minnesota Viking and newly installed National Football League Hall-of-Famer Carl Eller speaking last summer at NFL Hall of Fame induction ceremonies in Canton, Ohio. Carl Eller has come by our studios today to bring us up to date on reaction to his induction speech. He's also here to take your questions on other issues as well.

So if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call, 651-227-6000. That's our Twin City number, Twin City area number, 651-277-6000. Our toll-free number is 1-800-242-2828. Or you can send in your question or comment online. Go to our website minnesotapublicradio.org, and click on Send a Question.

Well, Carl Eller, you received national attention for your speech at the time. What's happened since?

CARL ELLER: Well, I did get a lot of attention at the time, Gary, and I've made a number of appearances since that. And I actually have some other things scheduled coming up later this fall-- I mean, early next year. I'm going to do some things for Black History Month, so it's created quite a stir.

But what I've done is I've made some contacts with quite a few people as a result of that are activists or certainly people that are concerned with this particular problem.

GARY EICHTEN: What have you heard from the young people? Were they listening?

CARL ELLER: Yes, the young people are listening, and I've made contact with the young people. Recently, I've been working with a group of young men, about 30 young men here in the Twin City area. And they are very, very responsive to what we're trying to do. We've taken the message to them, and they appreciate it. So it's been a good-- it's been a good experience.

You haven't been just dismissed as an old guy who doesn't know what's going on these days. Well, I've learned a lot, Gary. In fact, it's been an amazing journey for me. I came out, and I made the speech. And it was something that I felt very deeply about, but I really did not have the awareness of the extent of the problem. And it becomes more apparent every day.

But what I've learned, and I think this is significant-- when we talk about gangs, gangs is a generational problem. We have a lot of these young men whose parents and sometimes even grandparents have been part of the gangs. So it's a culture that's more deeply rooted than even I imagine.

GARY EICHTEN: How do you-- how do you break that cycle? I mean, first of all, it seems like you have to get people's attention. And you've had some success there. But then, how do you break that cycle?

CARL ELLER: Well, the thing that I'm learning is that the young men that we're talking to and dealing with is that they really are looking for an outlet. An outlet might not be the best word. But I become to realize that when we talk about young men 12 to 18, 13 and 14 years old, that these young men do have problems. And there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to talk about them.

And sometimes, it's the problem might be, well, I don't want to be in a gang. And how do I deal with that? Or maybe I'm having problems at school that I can't really talk about. So I just think having a resource and having some support and somebody that really has confidence in them goes a long way.

GARY EICHTEN: You emphasized and have emphasized over the years the importance of education. Now, do you get the sense that young folks are hearing that message, that they really do need to buckle down and get a good education?

CARL ELLER: Yes, they are hearing that message. Another thing I've learned is that it really is complicated, particularly in the Twin Cities with our children of color, African Americans, and Native Americans, they're not having very much success as getting these young men through high school. And of course, they're not getting into college.

There's something missing there. I don't know exactly what it is. But I think that there are so many outside problems that maybe these young men really can't concentrate, or they don't have the encouragement to really participate in school. Or they're not motivated to do their best.

And I think a part of it is that they really don't see something beyond the end of the tunnel, or there is no light at the end of the tunnel. And so it doesn't give them a lot to look forward to. So and sometimes, I think maybe getting involved in gangs or maybe getting involved in crime even may be more attractive because it's immediate. What we try to do and want to do is to give them hope and encourage them that there is something there. And if they do participate and apply themselves, that there will be a reward at the end.

GARY EICHTEN: Is that how you were able to-- because you talked openly, too, about having some rough patches when you were a young fellow. But you stayed on the straight and narrow, came up got-- the U of M, got a good education and so on. Was it the fact that you-- there was light at the end of your tunnel there, if you stuck to it, you were going to get an education and play ball?

CARL ELLER: Gary, amazingly, it's a very common story. I was just in New Jersey, and there's a thing that we do there and have been doing for a number of years with the YMCA in Newark, which, of course, has a history of being a very desolate place. It's turned around quite a bit.

But one of the things that we do when we go there is we go out and we talk to kids in schools at the elementary level and at the high school level. This year, I joined two other Hall of Famers, Bobby Belt, who you know, and Larry Little, who played for that Miami team that was undefeated. And we played them in the Super Bowl.

But there was a common theme, and that common theme was that they did not like their options. In other words, you get to be a freshman or a sophomore in high school. What's there to look forward to? You can graduate but get a job in the factory, or you can go to work. Whatever it is, it just was not appealing.

And so that was the one dissatisfaction with the options. The other was, there was an opportunity that did come along. And for the three of us, it was sports, that if we-- it wasn't automatic. We had to, of course, apply ourselves.

But if we did apply ourselves, that there was something different, that we expanded our options, and that one option being that we could go to college. And I think that was a turnaround point, certainly for the three of us. I am hoping and I'm thinking that if we give these young men an option, say, hey, that there is something out for you, it's not a dead-end street, I think they'll go for it.

GARY EICHTEN: Talking with Carl Eller, who, of course, earlier this year, last summer was inducted into the National Football League Hall of Fame. He's being honored this weekend at the Metrodome during the Vikings game, and we thought it'd be a great opportunity to catch up on the Carl Eller story. He got national attention for the acceptance speech that he gave last summer, a speech that, as you heard, went way beyond the usual sports cliches.

If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call, 651-227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828. Again, you can use our online service. Go to our website at minnesotapublicradio.org and click on Send a Question. Casey you're first. Go ahead, please.

AUDIENCE: Hey, good morning, Carl Eller. I just want to say, congratulations and much respect for you for speaking outside the box compared to most of the athletes nowadays that are just being paid more and more money with everything to make and nothing to say. I just want to say, do you see any kind of revamping or resurgence of political activist athletes? Because they are in a position to reach a large scale of people.

And instead of just being paid puppets by corporations, like Nike, to actually come out and have a social conscious message and speak out against things like the prison industrial complex that's targeting the young Blacks in America. And I don't know, I just wanted to comment. And I thought I'd say, Carl, thanks, great-- it's great of you to come outside the box and say what you did. Much respect to you.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks, Casey. Carl, I know you couldn't hear that because-- I'll get your headphones squared away here. But Casey was, first of all, praising you, thanking you for all you've contributed. He's interested in knowing whether or not you get the sense that more athletes are going to become activists and get involved in major social problems and programs.

CARL ELLER: Well, there are some of them that are, and they probably haven't gotten quite as much attention as I have. But I'm thinking that a lot of the stuff they do-- and the Minnesota Vikings have a lot of community people that are guys that work in the community. In fact, the Vikings do this on Tuesdays. They take their Tuesdays, and they go out and do some community work.

I don't know. I have a sense that we probably are not overall, Gary. It's kind of a saddening of affairs. Because I think that a lot of players are just are not really taking the interest in what's going on in our community.

GARY EICHTEN: Are most athletes-- because you've talked about this, too, that you believe college pro athletes are, in fact, role models, and they should accept that. But a lot of athletes don't. I mean, a lot of people take the position, look, I go out. I play the sport. If you want looking for a role model, look at your dad and mom. Don't look at me.

CARL ELLER: Well, I think that they're not being responsible when they say that, Gary. And I liken it to a person in uniform. If we take a police officer or a military man and you put those uniforms on, there's a certain responsibility that goes along with that.

And I think we should look at our athletes in the same nature. If you wear the uniform, there's something that goes along with that. And today, I think that they are becoming more self-centered, that they're not wanting to take on that responsibility.

And we've seen certainly evidence of that recently. But it's basically signing their contracts. Let me sign my contract, play ball, and leave me alone. And I think that's a very near-sighted view.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's try another caller, and hopefully you can hear our caller. Pat, go ahead, please.

AUDIENCE: Good morning. My question would be for Mr. Eller regarding the young men he works with. Of those guys, first of all, how many of them are fathers? And then, how do you use that particular fact to discuss their vision of the future?

I work with a lot of young African American fathers in my job in social services, and I frequently leverage if you will, their connection to their child, however tenuous, to help them see their future differently. And I'll take your response off the air. Thank you very much.

GARY EICHTEN: OK.

CARL ELLER: Pat, I appreciate your question. The young men that I work with now-- and this is-- we've just kind of assembled this group. There has been-- I work with Oscar Reed, who has actually had a longer time with these young men. So we've combined with this group. I know them from-- they were at my celebration over in North Minneapolis early in the year.

But I've gotten more involved as we go along. I don't know all of their histories, but I don't think that any of them are fathers. And the guys that we're working with are mostly 9th through 12th graders.

I do know that some of them have had some gang involvement. But at this point, I'm not sure that any of them are fathers. But it's a great point, and that would be an area of responsibility that would certainly address as we continue.

GARY EICHTEN: Carl Eller, there seems to be any number of programs that have been set up to address these problems facing young African American males particularly, , lots of programs lots of people giving speeches and the rest. Has any of that really made any difference in your mind?

CARL ELLER: Well, I think it has. But what we are trying to do is something different. I think a lot of those programs are, go in to try to make some impact. But they're not there for the long haul. I want these young men to feel like, we're together. I'm in this with them.

I'm a supporter of them. I'm going to be behind them. It's not something I'm going to come in and then not be there when they look for me. And we're going to set some goals. I am as interested as they are in what happens to them.

They're really a great group, even though I don't know them that well, and I'm just starting to know them. But they have ambitions. They have desires. They have goals, and they're very appreciative of the time that we spend with them.

And that really got my ear. It wasn't like, well, what are you doing here? I don't want to listen. These guys are saying, thanks, I'm glad you're taking the time out of your day to spend with us. And boy, that just got me right there. [LAUGHS]

GARY EICHTEN: Yeah. [CHUCKLES] Well, we got an online comment from Molly, who says, students and staff of Community of Peace Academy Charter school in St. Paul are incredibly proud of you, your success and your generosity.

CARL ELLER: Well, thank you. That's a great school. I am very familiar with that school, and it's one of the schools that I've spoken at. And it's doing a great job. It's having a lot of success. It's doing things the right way.

They have a credo there that, first of all, they deal with the whole person. And the Community of Peace-- peace is their venue. So it's a school where they respect each other. And certainly, violence is not part of their menu whatsoever.

GARY EICHTEN: Talking this hour with Carl Eller, who was this past summer inducted into the National Football League Hall of Fame this after a tremendous career with the Minnesota Vikings. Prior to that, he was a star at the University of Minnesota, came to Minnesota from North Carolina.

And a great story, and it turned into an even better story, of course, when Carl Eller used the opportunity of his induction to give an acceptance speech, which went far beyond the usual things that you would hear at an acceptance speech, addressing instead some of the big issues facing African Americans in the United States.

Carl Eller's come back today to bring us up to date on what's happened since he gave that speech. And if you'd like to join our conversation the number to call 651-227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828. Or again you can use our online service our web address is minnesotapublicradio.org. When you get there, click on Send a Question. And we'll get to more of your questions here in just a couple of minutes.

SPEAKER 1: Programming is supported by Capital City Partnership, presenting the Wells Fargo WinterSkate, an all-weather ice rink in downtown St. Paul. Every Sunday, you can skate to inspiring music with Minnesota Public Radio's Waltz on Water, online at capitalcitypartnership.com.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's catch up on the latest news headlines. Here's Toni Randolph. Toni?

TONI RANDOLPH: Thanks, Gary. President Bush has chosen a new Energy Secretary. Samuel Bodman has been serving as a Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Department. He next faces Senate confirmation. President Bush says he knows how to set goals and knows how to reach them.

A friend says the shooter in Wednesday's Ohio concert killings, quote, "was off his rocker." The friend says Nathan Gale claimed the heavy metal band Pantera had stolen his song lyrics. Gale burst on stage Wednesday night and shot the former Pantera guitarist known as Dimebag and several others.

Officials say the search for the six missing crew members is still taking precedence over the environmental threat posed by oil from a freighter that ran aground southwest of Alaska. Thousands of gallons of heavy bunker fuel and diesel spilled from the soybean freighter not far from a wildlife refuge.

For the first time since the end of the Vietnam era, a US passenger jet has landed in Vietnam. The United Airlines flight from San Francisco carried 347 people, including some Vietnamese who fled their country after the war. In regional news, Walmart stores says it plans to open its first three Supercenter food and general merchandise stores in the outer Twin Cities suburbs by early 2006. The nation's largest grocer wants to expand existing discount stores in Elk River, Maple Grove, and Shakopee to the full grocery format.

A political era is coming to an end in South Dakota. Senator Tom Daschle state offices in Sioux Falls, Aberdeen, and Rapid City closed today. His state director says constituent cases have been moved to other offices. The senator's Washington office will close next week.

And the weather forecast will have a mix of rain and snow today, highs from the low 20s to the upper 30s. And mostly cloudy tonight with lows from the teens to the mid-20s. Right now, it's 26 in Duluth and 34 in the Twin Cities. Now back to you, Gary.

GARY EICHTEN: All right, thanks, Toni. 26 minutes before 12:00, Midday coming to you here on Minnesota Public Radio. Over the noon hour, we have a new American RadioWorks documentary, this one a co-production with the BBC taking a look at redistricting or gerrymandering here in the United States. It is not by pure coincidence that virtually all US House members are reelected when they seek re-election. About 95% to 99% are reelected, and one of the big reasons is that they have managed to draw boundaries, which virtually guarantee their re-election.

We'll look at that issue over the noon hour. This hour, we're talking with Carl Eller, who was, this past summer, inducted into the National Football League Hall of Fame. He gave a really inspiring speech at the induction ceremonies, a speech that is still sending out ripples.

And he has come by today to bring us up to date on what's happened since he gave the speech. Of course, this weekend, he's being honored at the Metrodome during the Vikings game, being honored for his induction into the Hall of Fame. We thought it would be a great opportunity to update this story. Steve, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, Hi. How are you doing, Mr. Eller? I'm glad to have this opportunity to speak with you. I have a question as a white male trying to get into my teaching license and begin teaching at the high school level. And I'm a little older. I'm in my later seconds.

How do I find a way or how do you approach the divide, the social divide between the young African American, or for that matter, it could be any young child in that range of high school, and show them that you're there to help them, and you're trying to also improve their lives, and you believe in their ability? I mean, how do you break that divide, cross that bridge?

CARL ELLER: OK. Well, I think that it's a tough job. And I think it's a tough job for teachers today because I think that many students, and particularly the ones that we're talking about, probably come to you with a mistrust. So maybe they're not the most eager student to open up. I think they're going to be closed, and you're just going to have to earn their trust.

And I think this will happen over time if you will just allow yourself to do that and get to know them and let them know that you really are interested and willing to work through some of their problems, just help them work through some of their problems.

GARY EICHTEN: What do you think is at the root of that lack of trust? What creates that divide in the first place?

CARL ELLER: Well, I think that we're really going to have to do something in our schools and with our public education. And that's mostly what I'm talking about, is public education. I think that we have to find things that really are exciting for them, that really do excite them, particularly in areas of history, social studies, those kinds of things.

I know that we talk about the basics, math, the sciences, and those are exciting. But I think what makes those things exciting is that if people can identify, they can see other role models, they can see other people that have created or participated. You have to get beyond the George Washington Carver in our textbooks and make it relevant to the people that they're teaching.

GARY EICHTEN: Barbara, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Yes, my question is-- and I've been-- Carl, it's great to see you finally getting the acknowledgment that you get. I've had the privilege of working with you over the last few years. I haven't seen you in a while.

But my question is, in your conversations and when you're out speaking, are you seeing more girls at your presentations? I'm reading about figures of girl gang members rising, especially African American. And I think your message should be given to all young people, not necessarily just one race, but all young people. It's a great message.

CARL ELLER: Well, I appreciate your comment. And I think you're right. I think that certainly all young people could benefit or all people that work with young people could benefit from this message. It's just a little bit too much for me. I think I do want to focus, and I do want to concentrate.

And I think that there is a great need there. And certainly, with young women, we're seeing a great deal of problems. And I'm sure there are going to be people that's going to address that because the two both have to go hand in hand. I just think that I can identify better with the young men, and I think they identify and relate to me much better. And I'm just going to stick with that.

GARY EICHTEN: [CHUCKLES] If you have a question or a comment for Carl Eller, the number to call-- 651-227-6000 or 1-800-242-2828. Or again, you can use our online service. Our web address is minnesotapublicradio.org. When you get there, click on Send a Question. Kathy from Big Lake has sent in an online question for you Carl Eller.

Kathy says, can you comment on the recent increase in game violence and misbehavior by sports figures? And Kathy says, how in the world can a parent explain these actions to our children? And I suppose we should start with the big brawl, the NBA brawl here a couple of weeks ago.

CARL ELLER: Well, Kathy, I don't think that is something you can explain to your kids. It just wasn't right, and I don't think there's any excuse for any player whatever the sport to leave the playing field and go up in the stands to attack another fan. I mean, like, that doesn't make sense.

First of all, the fan is someone that's there to watch the game or watch the event. You're the person who is putting on the performance, and you're there to perform. There isn't really any interlink, except to just enjoy each other. I think that maybe fans have gotten a little bit more rowdy or whatever, but I just can't imagine that happening. And there's just no call for it.

GARY EICHTEN: Do you think that we can expect more of that kind of behavior, both from the fans and from the athletes? Or was this such a wake up call that people may actually back off and start behaving again?

CARL ELLER: Well, I don't think you can expect more from the players. I just don't think that the leagues are going to tolerate. I think they're going to clamp down now. I don't think they can tolerate it. I just think they have to step in and say, this isn't-- this isn't acceptable behavior.

GARY EICHTEN: Were you surprised at the-- or have you been surprised as this whole steroid thing has unfolded with the baseball players?

CARL ELLER: Well, I won't say I'm surprised. I'm a little bit disappointed, I think, probably like a lot of people are. You want the things to be-- accomplishments achieved on a very natural-- with all the natural aspects that you can have. But I think it's something. It's a tough thing to counter. The problem is that once it starts and once it gets out there, then it becomes part of the sport itself. And I would hate to see that.

GARY EICHTEN: What's the thinking with the athlete themselves that would lead them to use-- to use, in this case, banned substances, but under any circumstance, substances that could very well have bad health effects down the road? What's the thinking behind that?

CARL ELLER: Well, it's that feeling that, well, hey, I can achieve stardom. I can accomplish something that's going to separate me from the rest of the gang and put me on top or give me a lead. And they think it's worth the risk. It's hard to get that message out that there are some risks and that these risks could be very dangerous or life-threatening.

But they're going to come later. And part of that thinking is that I can go in. I can temper this and do it such a way that I'm smart enough to manipulate it so that it won't hurt me, and it's just erroneous thinking.

GARY EICHTEN: Were there a lot of players using steroids and the like when you were playing?

CARL ELLER: Not when I was playing. In fact, the weight training and the steroids was something was just beginning to come into professional football really towards the end of my career. And I know that they have a program there in the league now to counteract that and to certainly detect it.

But players will challenge that. They'll try and do what they can if it's going to-- if they feel it's going to make them better. What we need, of course, now is just to have those guys to say-- of equal talent and accomplishments to say, well, I'm not taking steroids. I did it naturally.

GARY EICHTEN: Bill, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Well, first of all, I would like to say, Carl, as a longtime friend, I'm very proud of your accomplishments. And I am very proud of the speech you made at Canton. I know you're work in the community, and I want to encourage you to keep on doing that work.

But Carl, the question that I want to raise is this morning, we announced that the University of Minnesota had the lowest or the 10th lowest graduation rates for athletes in the Big Ten. This is an ongoing problem, and it was a part of the problem that might have caused Mike Boston his job.

And I'm real concerned that five years later, we're still seeing low graduation rates at the university. This athletic director doesn't seem to be called into any accountability for it. And so my question is, what should universities do to make sure the athletes are getting their education?

Because it's, on the one hand, a contradiction to say to young African American men, finish high school and go to college. And maybe sports is one way in which you can do that, and then to see them go there and graduate, and because you and I both know only a small percentage of them will reach the pros.

CARL ELLER: Well, Bill, I appreciate your call. And I certainly am familiar with your work in the community, too. And the problem with the university is something that we see at a lot of schools. A university just doesn't do well and hasn't done well. It's not a real good record. It's not a good position to be in.

But I think that certainly as an athlete, you have to be committed to that player, and recruiting that player and that scholarship player is making sure they get an education. Because that's what we sell really, and that's what the university sells. And that's what-- it's an institution for education, and so it should really be primed to be sure that that happens. And when that doesn't happen, I think that's a mark on the university.

I know they provide a lot of support with tutoring and classes and things of that nature. But it has to be something more, and I'm not sure what it is. I do know from my experience at the university that the university is a very tough, tough place. And they certainly didn't cut any corners. I know that sometimes, being an athlete at the University in the classroom did not win you any favors. And so maybe we just have to have more of an atmosphere through the professors and through the rest of the college to accommodate these players in some fashion.

GARY EICHTEN: Who bears the primary responsibility for those low graduation rates, the student athlete or the school?

CARL ELLER: Well, it-- well here's what, I think if you recruit a marginal athlete or a marginal student, you know that he's going to need some support. And the university doesn't really make any concession. So you're going to have to, I think, beef that-- you're going to have to beef up that athlete somehow, give him more support that he can make it through the university.

So I think, yes, the athlete has got to apply. And I think a lot of them do, but maybe they just don't get the support that they need. I think that they probably could use a little more support.

GARY EICHTEN: Interesting online question from Ann, who says, should the NBA, the NFL, and so on establish a requirement for a college degree to reinforce the message that education is important? In other words, I guess, under her plan, you couldn't play in the NFL unless you had a degree.

CARL ELLER: Well, the NFL, I think, has maintained its guns, is that you have to-- they give them the time to graduate. They won't recruit-- like basketball, they will not recruit you from high school, or they won't recruit you until after your graduating class has-- until four years after your graduating class. So that's not the same as having a degree, but they do allow you the time.

And I applaud the NFL for that because I think it's important. One, it gives the athlete or the young student a chance to mature and to get ready for the professional leagues. And when you recruit them earlier, it really undermines the importance of education. So the suggestion is a good one. I don't think it's going to happen though.

[LAUGHTER]

Sorry, I wish-- I wish we could do something in that area.

GARY EICHTEN: John, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Well, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to Mr. Eller. When I was a kid, that was-- you were my hero.

CARL ELLER: Thank you.

AUDIENCE: I teach Advanced Placement American History at Minneapolis North High School. And I'm calling because I've got 50-- little over 50 kids in my two AP American History classes. And I think any of those kids are going to succeed in college without any problem whatsoever. They're 95% African American.

I have many athletes, a couple of guys that I'm going to go watch tonight play at Minnetonka, play basketball at Minnetonka. And those are the kids that don't get any, any type of recognition. And I'm really tired. I see these kids coming from places that are unbelievable and are succeeding, and they're succeeding on their own. And they're succeeding from areas that-- it's just unbelievable how they're succeeding.

GARY EICHTEN: John, let me-- OK, let me ask you a question here before we get a comment from Carl Eller. What in your mind differentiates the kids who are doing real well from the kids who aren't doing well?

AUDIENCE: Well, I think parents' involvement has a lot to do with it, whether they have a good job or no job. I mean, I see single moms going to work two or three jobs and showing up at our parent teacher conferences.

The kids that-- we had parent teacher conferences the other night. Who were the-- who are the kids' parents that I saw? None of the ones that I needed to see. I saw the kids who were succeeding. But I just want to make one point--

GARY EICHTEN: OK.

AUDIENCE: --is that I stay after school and help these kids with their AP stuff, and to watch them improve is unbelievable. But the other part of that is that we get a lot of help from professional athletes in the community, and it seems like a lot of those dollars go to kids that are really struggling with behavior problems and low grade issues.

And the kids that really should be rewarded get ignored. Those are my kids. And I mean, right now, I'm trying to raise-- these kids want-- we're going to try to raise money to go on a trip in the spring. I've sent letters all over the place. I don't get one. I haven't gotten one response from anybody, any of our professional athletes, professional teams, anybody in the community.

GARY EICHTEN: All right, let's get a comment from Carl Eller. All right, what about this, Carl Eller, that the kids who are doing the right thing basically get ignored? They're not getting the extra help they probably deserve and need.

CARL ELLER: I didn't get the caller's name, but--

GARY EICHTEN: John.

CARL ELLER: --John, I really support what you're doing, and I certainly support everything you're saying. I just want to give you a little background, as I had an organization called United States Athletes Association. And I'll talk a little bit more about that in just a minute. But that was the premise that we had.

Because in the typical high school, you have about 50% certainly at the junior and senior grade levels that are experimenting with marijuana or alcohol and-- or even higher with alcohol. So my rationale was is that let's reward the students who are not involved in some negative kind of behavior and use that as an attraction.

And I did have a lot of success. But there was so many wars and so many fights, the attention for the students who are doing well and are achieving-- it just isn't there. And just, the interest is just not there. And I think that's unfortunate.

I talked to the National Football League. I wanted to work with some of the kids that come to camps and some of the mothers that bring their kids or parents that bring their kids to these sports camps. And they go, well, you're preaching to the choir. Well, I think you do need to reward these kids that are doing the great stuff because it's tough for them. It's not an easy road to stay on the straight and narrow. But the mindset isn't out there, and that's unfortunate. But hopefully, we'll get there.

GARY EICHTEN: Steve has a question about your speech that you gave in the induction ceremonies. Steve says, how or did Bill Cosby's comments about African Americans influence your Hall of Fame speech? Of course, Cosby gave that speech that was both praised and vilified, depending upon your viewpoint.

CARL ELLER: Well, I know Bill Cosby. I didn't have anything to do with his speech, and I have not had any contact with him recently or even since his speech. I just know he's a kind-hearted person and would do anything to help people. And I just hated to see him get all the flack that he got. I just thought it was really unfair, and I certainly didn't think it had anything to do with where his heart was.

GARY EICHTEN: You don't think he was guilty of blaming the victim? That was the charge in general.

CARL ELLER: Yeah, I don't think he was, and it certainly was not an intentional.

GARY EICHTEN: Mike, your question for Carl Eller.

CARL ELLER: Hi, Mr. Eller. You were an inspiration to me when I was a child going through school and trying to be an athlete as a runner and stuff. But I was interested in chemical dependency in the African American community and what it was like for you, what happened, and how you're staying out of trouble today and that kind of thing.

CARL ELLER: OK. I am a recovering person. I continue to work the program. But I think it's one of those things in the community that we really have to take a hard look at. Maybe the community needs some support from outside in terms of the-- I know at one time, that a lot of the ads we're targeting into those communities were high risk. And I think that we're very tolerant of those kinds of things, and I think that has to change. We just have to be less tolerant of chemical use or chemical abuse and the acceptance of it in our community, particularly with our kids.

An amazing statistic, though, is that African American, both male and female, actually smoked less. And there's a couple of other statistics, too, where they don't binge drink as much. So I think they do get the message, and there is a fear out there of getting involved with it. But something happens along the way after they're not getting those constant messages.

GARY EICHTEN: Quite a debate underway and has been underway for a long, long time about drug laws, the argument on one side being, we need real tough laws. People who violate ought to be put in prison. On the other hand, there are people who say, no, no that's the wrong approach. Where do you come down on that?

CARL ELLER: Well, I know that there is a discrepancy between the laws that's still in the books. I know that in the African American community, the use of crack or the possession of crack brings a stiffer penalty than powdered cocaine. And they're both basically the same, except the way you do one versus the other, so the big discrepancy in the penalties associated with that.

I'm an advocate of treatment because I know that there is a possibility in the detention of people being rehabilitated, turning their lives around, and becoming very productive, in fact, exciting people in the community. I mentioned I continue to work my program. I go to a meeting, and men-- and it's mostly all men-- have been in recovery for a long, long time.

Their lives have turned around, and they've made tremendous accomplishments. But their stories are very similar. They got down there to where they basically lost hope, or they didn't have some help or whatever. But it finally came, and they made the big turnaround.

GARY EICHTEN: Aaron, your question, please.

AUDIENCE: Yes, Mr. Eller, I just want to give you-- thank you for your giving back to the community. I wish my grandson was still around here where he could hear you and get some of your influence. And the other thing I want to do is I want to thank you. I just love it every time you come into the place where this retired old man works. And what a lovely customer you are to have in the store.

CARL ELLER: Well, thank you very much. I hope I spend lots of money but--

[LAUGHTER]

Well, thanks for calling. Gary, what I've done since the speech-- and I really appreciate you having me in. It's really wonderful. I'm actually out at the mall. I have my little shop out there. I'm doing a little autographing this weekend, so people can come by and--

GARY EICHTEN: We're at? We're at the mall?

CARL ELLER: I'm on the third floor there in the what they call a community booth. It's right in the food court there, on the south end.

GARY EICHTEN: OK.

CARL ELLER: If you're looking for me, I'm across from Famous Dave's. But I've turned the United States Athletes Association into the Carl Eller Foundation to continue this work. So it's something that I've taken really seriously, and I've committed to it. I've made a real commitment to this, Gary. So it's fun to come in and be able to talk with you about it.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, it's great to have you here. How has being a Hall-of-Famer changed you? Or has it?

CARL ELLER: Well, I think it has changed me, actually. Well, one thing, I was very busy. We mentioned that, and we talked-- I've gone and talked to a lot of people. But the thing that I feel inside is that there was a lot of frustration and a lot of just emotions wrapped up into wanting to be and feeling that I should be a Hall-of-Famer. I don't feel that stress as a tremendous relief, and I think it's just allowed me to be more open. And just, I feel like I'm a better person, which is hard to say. But--

[LAUGHTER]

I think I am.

GARY EICHTEN: And any second thoughts about the speech that you gave? I would think not, given the positive response. But on the other hand, I would think you've been overwhelmed as well.

CARL ELLER: I have been overwhelmed, Gary. And that was a surprise to me. But the consensus is that it was a very good and timely speech, and the problem is there. And that's the reality of what we're dealing with, so I'm very happy about it.

GARY EICHTEN: And once again, for folks who tuned in late, you'll have-- they'll have a nice ceremony for you at the Metrodome, halftime during the Vikings game.

CARL ELLER: Yes, it's a-- I actually get my ring. That's what the ceremony is. They'll give me my Hall of Fame ring at the halftime at the Vikings Seattle game. And they have this thing at the Hall of Fame. If you ever go to Canton and visit there, they have a hologram where it shows the ring. But you can't really grab it.

[LAUGHTER]

GARY EICHTEN: Kind of a tease there.

CARL ELLER: Yeah, it's kind of a tease. But I'll get a real one this Sunday.

GARY EICHTEN: Carl Eller, thank you for coming in today. And congratulations in advance and in retrospect, both for being in the Hall of Fame and for the big ceremony this weekend.

CARL ELLER: Well, thank you, Gary. And also, thank the callers for calling in. Carl Eller, former Minnesota Vikings defensive great, who is now a member of the National Football League Hall of Fame, former University of Minnesota star as well, who set the world-- well, really turned things upside down with a very, very interesting acceptance speech in Canton, Ohio, last summer.

We're going to take a break for station identification. And then when we come back, we have a brand new American RadioWorks documentary called "Carving Up The Vote," how redistricting changed the election landscape. Interesting look at why so many House districts in America are so uncompetitive. You're tuned to 91.1 KNOW-FM, Minneapolis, St. Paul.

SPEAKER 1: Programming is supported by the American Lung Association of Minnesota and its carsforlungs.com program, which can earn a tax deduction and help improve the lives of children with asthma. Information at carsforlungs.com or 800 lung USA.

SPEAKER 2: Hey, hey, hey, tonight, you can see a special preview performance of A Prairie Home Companion, with Garrison Keillor, the news from Lake Wobegon, and the Royal Academy of actors. The show starts tonight at the Fitzgerald Theater in downtown St. Paul. Tickets are available at the door.

GARY EICHTEN: And hey, hey, hey, here's the-- [CHUCKLING] here's the Twin City weather forecast. We can look for some light rain, maybe some snow flurries through the afternoon. Temperatures right where they are, mid-30's. Right now, it's cloudy and 34 degrees. Tonight, cloudy, overnight low, 20 to 25. And then tomorrow, cloudy skies forecast with a high 35 to 40. Chance for some snow on Sunday. It's 12:00 noon.