(00:00:09) Love is a burning thing and it makes a fiery ring Bound by wild desire. I fell into a ring of fire (00:00:34) and good morning work. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten familiar voice. No doubt about it. Johnny Cash one of the most important figures in 20th century American music died this morning from complications from diabetes. He was 71 years old. He died in Nashville, Tennessee Johnny Cash Rose above and beyond the sometimes rigid boundaries that separate this kind of music. From that kind of music so during this first hour of. Midday, we're going to remember Johnny Cash and his music and his contributions to America to begin. Here's national public radio's Bob Edwards with a report. (00:01:13) Hello, I'm Johnny Cash. (00:01:23) I hear the train a-coming. It's rolling around a bend and I ain't seen the sunshine since I don't know when (00:01:32) I'm Johnny Cash. The man in Black has died cash saying about everything love heartache back-breaking work chilling violence and repentant Sinners his career spanned six decades and earned him 11 Grammys the Kennedy Center Honors National medal of the Arts and induction into the Country Music Hall of Fame the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the songwriters Hall of Fame cash was known as JR to his tight knit family grew up on an Arkansas Farm during the Great Depression while working the cotton fields. He'd keep himself motivated by singing what he'd heard on the radio the night before cash served in the Air Force as a code breaker after his discharge in 54 he married and moved to Memphis there. He met two mechanics who also were musicians Luther Perkins and Marshall Grant the trio soon recorded at Sam Phillips. Legendary Sun (00:02:25) Studios. Everybody knows where you go when the Sun goes down. I think you only live to see the lights up town. I wasted my time when I would try try try cause when the lights have lost the glow you cry cry cry last year during an interview at his own recording studio and Hendersonville, Tennessee. (00:02:50) I asked cash about his signature sound (00:02:53) Luther had an old Fender Telecaster guitar. That's it. Didn't have a butt plate that protected his hand from the strings and he laid the heel of his hands on the strings as he played the Rhythm and that gave him that muted muffle sound 2229222922292 that became so identifying with me and Marshall Grant played the upright slap Bass with the snare drum side effect on it. And and I was myself (00:03:26) is it true that when you told Sam Phillips you wanted to do (00:03:40) gospel. He told you to go out and sin first know (00:03:44) that's how he knows. (00:03:46) This is the first time I've ever heard (00:03:48) that no (00:03:49) Sam told me that that we couldn't sell gospel music therefore he can stay in business. So honest with that saw So will I sing of the things too? So he (00:03:59) said we'll give me a call. We'll set something up. I keep a close watch on this heart of mine. I keep my eyes wide open all the time. I keep bins out for the fight that fight because you're mine. I Walk the Line (00:04:28) Johnny Cash had his first number one hit in 1956 with I Walk the Line initially written as a pledge of fidelity to his first wife Vivian and establish themes that would become Cassius trademarks and struggle with (00:04:41) temptation and struggle with (00:04:43) himself as his popularity increased and his career became more demanding cash became addicted to amphetamines and Other Drugs his behavior became increasingly volatile. It could be said that June Carter. Save Johnny Cash and gave him another big hit Carter was the daughter of one of country music's Founders. She'd been touring with cash for several years when she fell in love with him. June Carter was a devout Christian and married at the time. She turned her conflicted feelings into the song Ring of Fire 1963. Johnny Cash added trumpets (00:05:18) Ring of Fire became a chart topper. The taste of love is sweet one heart like ours me. I fell for you like a child. Oh, but the fire went wild. I fell into a burning Ring of Fire. I went down June Carter and Johnny Cash finally married five years later (00:05:53) after he'd broken his addictions and become a born-again Christian, but he cultivated His Rebel Persona with the release of what became his most popular album Johnny Cash at Folsom (00:06:04) Prison. They're probably drinking coffee and smoking big cigars while I know I had it coming. I know I can't be free but those people keep a-movin and iswhat's or Jersey. You're hard to (00:06:30) categorize you been. Elusive when you're a veteran, but you've never wrapped yourself in the (00:06:36) flag. And any kind of jingoistic patriotism. (00:06:40) You've been a crime victim and hear you speak for prisoners. You're all over the place. You know him is that a conscious thing as I just (00:06:51) live it is maybe is conscious thing (00:06:55) to be all over the (00:06:56) place a person of my (00:06:58) position (00:06:59) situation is in a position of (00:07:02) responsibility for one thing to answer the call for those (00:07:05) who need a (00:07:06) voice. I'm not saying that I'm the noble noble mind to jump up and relative the call, but sometimes I can remember (00:07:17) to Cassius career slowed down during the (00:07:21) 1980s but took off again in 1994 with the release of American recordings was the first of four Grammy winning collaborations with hip-hop metal producer Rick Rubin Cassius last albums featured his own interpretations of new songs including Soundgarden's Rusty Cage you to choose one and Trent Reznor's hurt. (00:07:42) But have I become my sweetest friend. Everyone I know goes away and he's (00:08:02) going on eat snails worth it (00:08:05) to me. The song (00:08:06) is a great anti-drug song and scared the Daylights out of you using hard drugs. I felt like it's something I possibly could have written if I could write that well back in the (00:08:16) 60s. You're in a place, of course where you can choose your own material and that has I think played an important part in your career, but there's a Johnny Cash song and you know it when you hear it well, (00:08:33) An open mind helps, you know, if the songs are really great if the writer is good if the song is really there if I like it if I feel like I can do it and make it my strong and enjoy it myself then it's going to be mine. (00:08:49) Johnny Cash recorded more than 1500 songs during his career and inspired a generation of singers and songwriters including his own daughter Roseanne. He became increasingly frail during his later years and made few public appearances. He was recovering from a bout with pneumonia this past May when his wife June Carter Cash died of complications from heart surgery Johnny Cash died early this morning at hospital in Nashville. He was 71 years old. (00:09:28) I was standing by my window on one cold and cloudy day. When I saw the hearse come rolling for the carry my mother away (00:09:46) that recollection of Johnny Cash from Morning Edition host. Bob Edwards. Well joining us now here in the studio for the rest of this hour of midday is Ken Hepler lifelong country music fan and the host of good and Country Country Music Show broadcast each Saturday afternoon on KFA. I in the Twin Cities and joining us by phone from New Orleans. This morning is Nick Spitzer host of American Roots heard each Saturday evening here on Minnesota Public Radio. We also invite you to join our conversation. We're talking this our about Johnny Cash. And if you have a question or a comment give us a call. Our Twin City area number is 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand toll-free number is Two for two two eight 286512276 thousand or 1-800 to for 22828 can hip learn expect sir. Thanks for joining us this morning. Appreciate it pleasure to be here (00:10:50) under these circumstances, but it's a great life to think about and listen to the music of (00:10:55) Nick. Let me start with you if we might it has been said that Johnny Cash is one of the most important figures in twentieth-century American Music. Would you agree with that (00:11:06) assessment? Oh completely. I mean, he's really right up there because of his ability to include so many different kinds of music over his lifetime that the whole life Arc of coming out of depression, Arkansas and moving his way through rockabilly music and gospel music and the prison songs and protest songs and Country Music Nashville style and finally on you know to the the whole new period he braced all these different eras and and spoke for a lot of different kinds of people people didn't feel excluded. By his music. He Embrace lots of different people. So he's right up there by being able to pull lots of styles and different kinds of folks together over a long and Incredibly productive career in which he's making his own songs as well as a contributing a distinctive (00:11:52) sound can Hepler. Would you agree rail towering figure or as some of this media hype? Oh, no, there's no media hype about it. He was huge no mistake. He did incorporate a lot of different forms into his music and one of the things that struck me about Johnny Cash was his storytelling ability. He had an uncanny ability to speak to anybody who was willing to listen. Mmm. I wanted to give each of you a chance to play your favorite Johnny Cash song and Ken let's let's start with you. If you could pick one from from the long list, what would it be? I guess I'd have to go with Big River just really Snappy tune. I've always liked it tells a great story in the One of his nice early records. I thought Alright Big River. (00:12:49) I taught the weeping willow how to cry and I should be clouds out a cover of a clear blue sky and the tears that I cry for that woman. We're gonna flood you Big River in st. Paul Minnesota and it tore me up every time I heard Rawls another then I heard my dream what back Downstream cohort and then Davenport and I followed you big river when you call. Sweet Lou it later on bounded operator said she's been here but she's gone boy. She's gone. I found her Trail in Memphis, but she just walked up the bluff. She raised a few eyebrows and then she would hold down alone. Now. I want you bad it down by Baton Rouge River Queen roll it on. Take care for Mondo Mountain you only you only go on I've had enough to dump my Blues down in a girl. She loves you big river more than me to weepin Willow how to cry. Right, right, and I should the cloud powder cover of a clear blue sky and the tears that I cried for that woman are gonna flood you big river and I'm gonna sit right here until I die. (00:15:11) And can now that was early Johnny middle Johnny that would have been around 1957 during his tenure when he was at Sun Records in the late 1950s their (00:15:22) next Spencer. Hey, can I just say that was the song I was going to pick two so great minds thinking alike. And I want to compliment the pic but you know, the interesting thing about the song is that you've got our two cities there you're in the st. Paul at the beginning of the song and you down in New Orleans and finally floating out into the Gulf of Mexico. And so it really is a nice it's called a map song but it's more I mean it's a song about lost love and it's got a very I think sensual quality the man is sort of desperate and you know, he's so desperate. He taught the weepin willow had a crime and what kind of it's unbelievable line and and then you know, he's chasing her down river and she seems like the River Spirit and I mean, it's it's just filled with sort of Mythology and romance and sexuality and it's all gone. Blues Boogie beat I mean it's a pretty overwhelming piece of music. So that was your pick but it was mine too. But I have another one. I was allowed to have another one OK which has well, I think it's interesting that you know, there's so many different periods of Johnny Cash that I also go back to the sun stuff. And you know, Johnny Cash doesn't have that split in his career where you with Elvis where you you know, you look at Elvis and you say gee I don't know about that Vegas stuff and though I still like some of that but Johnny Cash there's stuff all over and all the career and we can we can touch on it, but I'm actually in 1956 with a song called Get Rhythm which was the flip side the B-side of I Walk the Line which was mentioned in your your NPR report and I really like Get Rhythm because let's say it's a call to action, you know, you've got a man who grows up in the Delta 40 acres and a mule cotton and he ends up in Memphis and what happens in Memphis. Well, he encounters a shoeshine boy going to be a little black kid on the street. Here's the White River. Sevinor who's hip to African-American music and so this song is kind of a comedic play about that encounter and understanding the blues and how do you get rid of your blues? Will you know you get Rhythm you get happy you get moving and I think this song is really about the Collision of the rural and urban and black and white worlds and it's a great tune from 1956. Hey get a (00:17:32) rhythm when you get the blues, come on get a rhythm when you get the blues get a rock-and-roll feeling in your bone, but that's on your toes You're Gonna Get Rhythm when you get the blue a little shoe shine boy. He never get slowed down but he's got the dirtiest job in town bending low at the people's feet on a windy corner of a dirty Street. Will I asked him honey shine my shoes how to keep from getting the blues. He grinned as he raised his little head upon the shoeshine dragon, and he said Get Rhythm when You get the blues. Come on get a rhythm when you get the blues a jumpy River make you feel so fine. It'll take all your trouble from you or it might get a rhythm when you hit the blue you get the blue. Come on get a rhythm when you get the blue get a rock and roll feeling in your bones, but a pony tools and you don't get a rhythm when you get the blue. Well I said and I listened to the shoeshine boy, and I thought I was gonna jump with joy slap on my shoe polish left and right if you shine. Raggedy held in tight. He stopped wants to wipe the sweat away. I said you mighty little boy to be a working at we she said I like it with a big wide grin kept on a popping any say it again getting Rhythm when you get the blues. Come on get Rhythm when you get the blues it only cost a dime just to Nicholas you what does a million dollars with a good but you get Rhythm when you get the blue (00:19:42) both of the songs that you gentlemen selected feature that distinctive Johnny Cash sound. Is anybody tried to duplicate that that anybody try to imitate it in any way? Well, we've had a lot of modern your artists who have limited to some degree of Dwight Yoakam Marty Stuart just to name a couple who have Incorporated that kind of sound and some of their more recent CDs as a kind of a tip of the hat to Johnny. As in that unique sound wonderful sound that he did have. (00:20:15) Question, I think I just yeah the sound of the guitar, but also just the fact that this is essentially rockabilly music. I mean this is you know, where hillbilly meets Rhythm and Blues Gospel rock and roll and so almost everybody that follows the rockabillies in rock and roll at some level is following Johnny Cash and the other guys from son (00:20:36) now to the uninitiated should we think about Johnny Cash as primarily a great singer primarily a great musician or primarily a great songwriter? Where do we start? For my own perspective the singer-songwriter. I think I think he probably originated or one of the was one of The Originators of that genre the singer-songwriter you can you talk about people like Hank Williams, you can talk about people like Merle Haggard, but Johnny Cash was one of the truly great towering singer-songwriters inequity (00:21:13) thing. Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, I think that the musical style that he consolidates His Brilliant it but that's a team effort and it's coming out of that period and that aura and it's a distinctive sound. But ultimately Johnny Cash is in I think two key Traditions, he's in the anglo-american ballad Troubadour sort of tradition of narrating and storytelling and he's in the Blues tradition, which is that more experiential I statement of here's what happened to me and why I feel bad and he fuses those two brilliantly and infusing them. He becomes essentially a great American singer-songwriter and I completely agree. I think that's that's his Huge contribution, but you know beyond that he's a great great Entertainer. I mean, he has a magnetic ability on stage to convey these songs. So that's the singer side of the singer-songwriter and you know, I mean get up in front of prisoners and get up in front of hippies and get up front of rednecks, you know, a lot of African-Americans in his audience. I mean this guy crossed boundaries because of his Persona as (00:22:15) well. I want to both of you guys are radio people. So I want to ask you this question because it seemed that when I was thinking about this this morning seem to be quite important to this story. Maybe you'll agree. Maybe you won't but Johnny Cash as my memory goes became well-known famous in this country in part because the old top 40 rock stations used to play lots of other kinds of music. And so if you were listening to the top 40 hits they would just as likely be a country song as they would be some other kind of music you am. I right about that. I think the essential You're correct about that. I think there were radio was a whole different animal back in the days when Johnny Cash was on his rise as more different than it is today in many respects. But a lot of the DJ's were were doing their own thing. A lot of people felt attracted the Johnny Cash A lot of the DJ's kind of represented that attraction and the demand was there for his music and I think I think generally speaking there was a power behind it there. That could not be stopped or anything (00:23:19) like well, I think the fifties it's interesting we presented as kind of a repressed period but you know, look at the Ed Sullivan Show, I mean you could hear Louis Prima Elvis Presley and Opera and I think radio is even more democratic in that you had these local stations some with a lot of power. Why did she know they could reach a huge areas, but the cell the impresario was the DJ and so they were reacting to the taste of the people of all kinds of so, they kind of operated under the radar unlike now we're commercial radio is Controlled by sort of you know, an oligarchy of some kind but yeah, I mean Johnny Cash is power breaks through and and he's also there's an edge of him that is kind of the bad boy in the protest singer who emerges in the 60s, but there's this kind of like that. I'm you know, he's getting his sound out and that's that's part of the messages that I am getting my sound out and radio local DJ's respond to that. (00:24:13) We're going to talk more about the 60s and the rest of Johnny Cash's career as contributions to American music and just a moment to take a break here, but I'd love to have you join our conversation as well. Can Hitler is here. He's the host of the program good and Country on KFA. I in the Twin Cities here at every Saturday afternoon. Nick Spitzer has joined us from New Orleans. He's the host of American Roots, which you hear each Saturday evening here on Minnesota Public Radio. We're talking about Johnny Cash who passed away early this morning at the age of 71 if you would like to join our conversation the number of 6512276. Or if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight get two more conversation about Johnny Cash your questions and lots more Johnny Cash music just a couple minutes. (00:25:06) Hi, it's Lena row Center Casper this week. We meet (00:25:08) Andreas vstep the man changing the face of modern Scandinavian food (00:25:13) Calvin trillin explains the difference between red wine and white wine and Michael (00:25:18) Stern when we're going to knock back some oyster shooters in the Pacific Northwest (00:25:23) join us. That's the Splendid Table to show for people who love to eat Saturday at 1 and Sunday at 6 a.m. On Minnesota Public Radio. (00:25:32) Let's catch up on news headlines. And here's Greta Cunningham Greta. Thanks Gary. Good morning. The UN Security Council has voted to lift sanctions against Libya the United States and France abstain from the vote the other 13 council members voted unanimously to lift the sanctions a partial compensation deal yesterday between Libya and relatives of the victims of 8. Nine French airliner bombing cleared the way for the long-delayed vote France had been threatening to hold up the vote. Unless Libya agreed to pay more compensation money. Some Iraqi police officers say they were victims of a friendly fire incident involving American soldiers. They say the US troops mistakenly fired on them in an area west of Baghdad and a rocky doctor says 8 policemen and a Jordanian security guard were killed at a meeting in Austria top officials of the un's nuclear agency or calling on Iran to clear up suspicions about its nuclear Ambitions by the end of next month diplomats at the closed meeting. Say the Iranian delegates walked out in protest. The decision sets the stage for possible un Security Council sanctions. If Iran doesn't obey a truck heist has grounded a replica of the Wright brothers original airplane. The Wright flyer replica is stuck in Canada after a thief stole the diesel pickup truck that was taking it on tour Montreal was the first stop for the flyer. The replica is scheduled to go to various US cities before winding up near Kitty Hawk where the group plans to fly it in October. In Regional news the wild animal park bear caught Hollow in Southeastern. Minnesota is reportedly being investigated by the US fish and wildlife service. The government is apparently looking into alleged animal abuse the 25 acres who has about 300 animals the forecast for Minnesota calls for a chance of showers in North Eastern and Southeastern Minnesota partly cloudy in the southwest with high temperatures in the 70s right now in Sioux Falls. It's sunny and 65 Moorhead reports Fair skies and 66 skies are partly cloudy in Rochester and 59. It's partly cloudy in Duluth and 63 and in the Twin Cities partly cloudy skies a temperature of 64 Gary. That's a check on the latest news. All right. Thanks Greta. It's well, it's about 26 minutes and I'll before 12 and this is midday in Minnesota Public Radio Greta was mentioning or newscast the Wright brothers plane replica getting Marooned in Canada. We're going to be talking about the Wright brothers over the noon hour. Actually, we won't be but astronaut former Astronaut John Glenn himself in aviation hero will be talking about the Wright brothers and the history of flight that's coming up over the noon hour this hour we are remembering an American great Johnny Cash who died this morning one of the major figures and the 20th century in terms of Music in America Our Guest this our Nick Spitzer hotz host of American roots for which you here on Minnesota Public Radio each Saturday evening. He's joined us from New Orleans this morning. Can Hitler is here. He is the host of a country music show called good and Country. You can hear it each Saturday afternoon on KF AI in the Twin City metropolitan area. And again, if you'd like to join our conversation got a question or a comment about Johnny Cash 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight was Johnny Cash ever. Actually in prison he so closely identified with prison songs. Nikamoda (00:28:49) free. Well, my understanding is that that he doesn't really have a serious prison situation that that he basically he did have a problem with within feta means and and the story is that his wife June Carter Cash helped him get out of that but that I think he was arrested and released and didn't really spend time in prison and we'd have to check the hard biographies and all that. But what I think is signaling his life is that he ends up becoming a voice for prisoners and you know, 1968 the famous recording live at Folsom Prison. I mean, you know, here's the Vietnam War starting to rage, you know, we've lost a president to assassination a few years earlier MLK has been killed Bobby Kennedy killed and here's cash standing up at Folsom Prison saying well, you know, these people have feelings and rights to and and I think That recording takes you into an understanding of their humanity and the possibility that some of them maybe shouldn't be there that there is hope for all kinds of people. So the prison image in his life is important but his actual being imprisoned. It's not like say Merle Haggard who spent time at San Quentin and and it's not like a few other folks that you know have that kind of prison history and releasing directly from it. He seems more for prisoners than as a prisoner. We (00:30:14) have one of the person songs cute up. (00:30:17) Hello. I'm Johnny Cash. (00:30:27) I hear the train a-coming it's rolling around a bend and I ain't seen the sunshine since I don't know where I'm stuck in Folsom Prison and time keeps dragging on but a train keeps a Rollin on down a saint and when I was just a baby, my mama told me son always be a good boy don't ever play with guns. But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die and I hear that whistle blowing. I hang my head and cry. (00:31:23) Kind of rough and Rocky sentiments and have song very much. So let's let's get our caller on the line here. And let's see. Who do we have on the line. Let's go to a caller. Go ahead, please. (00:31:39) Hi, this is Paul from Minneapolis. Oh, hi Paul. My first first time I heard Johnny Cash's on a Bob Dylan album and that I was a young kid and that's how my I really appreciated country music. Everybody thought it was strange that a young kid would like country music, but it was because of Johnny Cash and that what he was doing with artist like Bob Dylan that that really got me into it. And also I think he had quite an acting career and I wanted to your guests to comment on that. And also I wonder if they would consider him part of the outlaw movement in Willie Nelson Waylon Jennings, and I'll hang up and listen and oh, I really love good and Country. All right. Well, we've (00:32:30) got a we got a plate fold are that's for questions if right. Well, let's see to talk about Dylan here in just a moment. But let's kind of do this backwards which is to say the Outlaw country movement Waylon and Willie in the boys Johnny part of that. Oh, I think he could definitely be described as part of the outlaw movement is very own way of he definitely did things his own way almost from the very GetGo and didn't really take any marching orders from anybody else as far as how to do his music. So I think very definitely for sure (00:33:01) and I agree with that totally and I think you know, I mean he had some pretty rough rough rides in the in the 50s. I mean, they were famous for busting up hotel rooms and they be on the road and drinking and you know, not showing up and all the rough things of early rock and roll and rockabilly, of course, you know, that whole image goes back even further to that to the Jimmie. Years in the Blues Guys and the you know, I'm the rough and tough rounder and you know, I'm so bad. I'm good. I mean, I think that is a classic Motif in American culture. It didn't just you know arrived with new Outlaw music country music today alt-country nor did it arrive with wrap the we have a long history of the Outlaws hero and Johnny Cash was really one of the great, you know articulator that in the 50s and onward and yet he's also on the other side. I mean, he wasn't just wearing black because he was some nihilist. He also, you know starts wearing black and talking about it as a kind of almost preacher lately, you know, we have these horrible sins. We've got to get purged in our society. So so it's an interesting mix of Outlaw and then, you know healer Redeemer (00:34:01) as I understand it. There are stories. We can't tell on the radio here that he had they'd have sins to atone for especially running around with Waylon Jennings. (00:34:10) Anyway now his acting (00:34:11) career was he a great actor? I didn't even know he was in (00:34:15) movies that tell me you're talking to two radio guys about you know, that movies and television that stuff can I I've seen a few of his things and appearances on television shows. And of course I Walk the Line was turned into a film but that was an after-the-fact thing and I don't think he had a part in it, but maybe you have some thoughts on the acting side. (00:34:34) Well Johnny Cash had his own television show a beginning around 1969 that wasn't on for very darn long, but I'll tell you what, it's one of the television shows that really turn me on the Johnny Cash at a young age and I was about maybe 10 years old at the time. And of course, I remember his appearance on Columbo at least once (00:34:51) and (00:34:51) then call her Paul brings up the Bob Dylan connection and that I'm guessing a lot of people like Paul who maybe wouldn't have paid any attention to Johnny Cash suddenly sat up and said Gee Bob Dylan likes this guy maybe I should pay attention one thing. I need to mention about Johnny Cash right up until the very end even at his age. He was continuously bringing new people into being interested in country music (00:35:15) continuously. Yes, that's exactly right. I mean those last set of recordings the American recordings a you know had him with Garden and then does the Nine Inch Nails song but you know, it's rock and roll meets country thing goes right back to the beginning of the career. I mean in those days there wasn't anything really called rock and roll exactly so country rock, you know upbeat country was rockabilly, so he's always been able to step into two worlds. The Dylan reference though. I'm sure is to Nashville Skyline which you know is the record where Dylan does come to Nashville and you're getting a resolution of the East Coast, you know, the focus I granted the Dylan's from Minnesota, but I mean, he established himself in New York and then you have Baez in Nashville recording with those folks and that was a big split in the in the late 60s because of the Nashville establishment had kind of you know, put down anybody with long hair and it was always very pro war and you know here was the quote unquote counterculture Heroes coming to Nashville. And so who does who does he end up with in the studio, you know, but but cash and of course cash himself had been an outlaw Nashville famous picture of him, you know flipping the finger and All these things but the song they do can tell me if I'm wrong. The one song I recall is girl from the North Country. Yes, you know, which which I don't think they both knew the words to that's doesn't really matter. It's there there together singing and that that was a symbolic (00:36:37) statement. Yes. Let's give it a lesson. (00:36:54) If you're traveling. telling all country fair Where the winds heavy on the boat? Remember me to one who lives there for she once was a true love of mine see for me that her hair hanging down. It curls and fall all down at wrist see for me that her hair hanging down. That's the way I remember her bed. Did you go? when the snowflakes fall when the rivers be the easy for me if she's wearing cold. So warm to keep her from the how if you're traveling in the nose went away. Leave. Hello (00:38:58) Nick. When were do you remember when that was (00:38:59) recorded? Gee, I think that's like 68 Nashville Scholars record. I think it kind of flowers into 69 kind of hits the charts and you know, I'll date Myself by saying I was in college then and I remember that record just booming out of college dormitory windows, but you know and that you begin to get a Nashville reaction, you know, keep long hair out of country music. I mean, you literally had people like Bill Anderson on stage reacting to that and to the birds. So it was it was culture wars in an interesting kind of way and in those battles Johnny Cash was always incredibly a crossing over and open mind and and wanted everybody and he wasn't against you know, one old order group or Pro knew everything. He wanted everybody involved and to think about the issues in the (00:39:44) ideas. Grand old Opry was always has always been thought of as a pretty conservative organization. Was he a regular on the Opry? He was a member of the Opry and prior to that. He was on the Louisiana hayride in the 1950s and down in Shreveport. And that was kind of this that was kind of the Cradle of the stars as they would call it in those days and the kind of the springboard to getting on to the Opry but Johnny Cash had been a member of the Opry at least on and off over the years Sean your comment, please. (00:40:14) Yeah. I wanted to get your comments on some of the later songs. I remember coming across your own personal Jesus on the radio for the first time and I thought what kind of a lark you know grandstanding stunt is this but I listened to it and it was sort of oddly compelling and I and then the The Nine Inch Nails onto it seem like he took these songs that to me seemed very dark and very cynical and and he really imbued them with a lot of sincerity and I was really surprised. By that I haven't heard all the covers from that album, but I just wanted to maybe get your comments on how he really made those songs his own bike sort of changing the meaning of them. (00:40:55) Yeah. Well, I recently saw the video of hurt and it's really powerful stuff is good as a song is as good as the Johnny Cash cover of this song is that you almost have to see the video which of course we can't do it here in this medium, but I think Johnny Cash did give the song his own meaning. I think he did give it his own Spin and he had an uncanny way of making songs his own even if they were covers of other artists neck. (00:41:19) Yeah. I mean, this is a man who lived through some tough times grew up in a very difficult circumstance always had a feeling for other people as said as much and you know, when there's this whole dark period of 90s rock and roll he empathizes with the songwriters and then I think you're absolutely right. I mean that record Unchained in particular on American recordings is one where you can you know have him singing things like rusty cage and That one in particular I was always kind of amazed me but just then repressing some of his old songs. Like I never picked cotton, you know and mean I'd cat where he really takes you into sort of a dark world, but then shows you the light inside it and and it goes back to his sense. I think of redemption which I view is coming out of kind of his Christian fundamentalist side originally and then transformed as he becomes this higher Consciousness thinking person into all these cultural realities and and it's meaningful that he didn't just reach out to these artists. He I think he really liked it. All he did like it all. I don't think he would have played it if he (00:42:23) didn't tell me about hurt. We're going to play that in just a second. What's the background here? Well, it's a cover of a nine inch nails song is has been established here and it's his latest single and I did not watch the award show, but I understand it the video of it did get a recognition on the recent MTV awards for best cinematography and it's making a lot of Right now (00:42:59) I hurt myself today. To see if I still feel I focus on the pain. The only thing that's real. the needle tears a hole the old familiar sting try to kill it all away, but I remember everything. What have I become my sweetest friend? Everyone I know goes away in the end and you could have it all my Empire of dirt. I will let you down. I wear this crown of thorn. Upon my Liars chair full of broken thoughts. I cannot repair beneath the stains of time the feelings disappear. You are someone else I am still right here. What have I become? my sweetest friend (00:45:27) Pretty good. Pretty good music from a 70 year old man would be pretty good music from a 30 year old man, very deep song. They're very (00:45:35) deep and interesting. You know, you you hear the Christian image of the crown of thorns there and they all along side with all the references to heroin. Just thinking back to that early in his career you had him doing something like Cocaine Blues and other songs that deal with, you know, problems and addictions and so it comes out in a variety of periods of his life and in a variety of styles, but it's incredible that at this point just before his death. He's out there with this level of impact and notoriety and as you say it's performing so (00:46:06) well Jim your comment, please. (00:46:10) Yeah. I just wanted to let you know that I've enjoyed all everything Johnny Cash did but I always was amazed it even in his height of his addictive faith. I saw him in 1961 a couple of times and he was so down. You could not get him on stage. But yet he could project and being a performer. And he never lost his ability to be a socially aware. I don't know whether any of you are familiar with these Ballad of Ira Hayes spoke to the middle of Congressional Medal of Honor when Tyra Haze that was one of the Iwo Jima flag raisers. (00:46:42) It's my favorite Jim (00:46:44) really you (00:46:45) betcha. (00:46:47) It's quite a story and it's just typical of what Johnny Cash stood for to me. Thanks Jim. Thank you very much. (00:47:06) I (00:47:07) hate. I hate. Call him drunken Irish and he will answer any more not the Whiskey Drinking Indian or the Marine that went to all. Gather around me people. There's a story I would tell about a brave young Indian. You should remember well from the land of the Pima Indian a proud and Noble fan who farmed the Phoenix Valley in Arizona land. Down the ditches a thousand years of water screw Iris people's crops to the white man stole their water rights and the sparkling water stop. Now I Rose folks were hungry and they're Landrieu crops of weeds. When war came are a volunteered and forgot the white men's greed all him drunken Irish Hayes evil at Sur anymore. Not the Whiskey Drinking and (00:48:23) maybe not the most artistic of the Johnny Cash songs, but I always liked that one. Very popular tells the true story and what more can you ask for Nick Spitzer out, you know, the judge of a major musical Talent often is how much influence that that person has on other artists as Johnny Cash really cut a wide (00:48:45) swath. I think it's no question that he has. I mean, he shaped the singer-songwriter world. He shaped the first generation of people actually kind of referred to as the country country Outlaws the way islands and the Willie Nelson folks, you know people like the Grateful Dead listen to him the band listen to him. We now Obviously that this whole new listing of the The Nine Inch Nails and Soundgarden world and and then you know, all these country artists that it follows him over the years. So he has a huge huge following in different directions. I evaluate people though, not so much on how many people they've influenced or how many records they might sell but more quality in terms of their qualities and his quality is to embrace the dark and the light and life and to somehow resolve them and you know there there's a sense of any Redemption for for those that are on the outside or people that are hurting and his ability to embody that in his own life and and to project that in song through so many styles is ultimately to me. What makes Johnny Cash great not how many people he actually influence their how many how many records he might have sold but the breadth of his ability to symbolically embrace all these different people and give hope and at while still Express Pain and enjoy to all those upbeat boogie-woogie Xin and fun. Love (00:50:08) songs can help our wedding. I would totally agree with all of that and add to that hear you had a man who if you could put him in stage and have an audience out there. He would relate to the 10 year old. He would relate to the 80 year old and he had a magnetic ability to just kind of just take control of that audience Paul a quick comment here before we wrap (00:50:28) up sure. I just like to say that I have a five-year-old son of just he's who's driving around the truck with his grandpa and he started here in Johnny Cash and just fell in love with them and he's got all the CDs now and he's got a guitar and he sings the songs. It's amazing and is one to say that he's even influence his life and he's only five years old. I have to go home and tell him tonight that he died. He's going to be crushed. (00:50:49) Thanks for your call Paul. Thank you can't I think we would be remiss if we didn't make at least a brief comment about June Carter Cash who really seemed to basically save his life more than once and of course she passed away this past May. And Johnny Cash was really never really recovered from that. I don't think (00:51:10) yeah, I think that's true. And the the influence on him is very interesting over the years. They performed together a great deal songs. Like Jackson kind of the upbeat sort of Love song, but also Daddy Sang Bass where you hearing about a family gospel band. So there's a lot of sort of Carter family Gospel family imagery in some of caches, you know songs that he that he does with her (00:51:33) gentlemen. We are unfortunately out of time, but I really want to preach say thank you to both of you for joining us. Appreciate it. Thank you for (00:51:41) having me. Yeah. Thank you. Can you're going to do a big (00:51:44) good to Our Extravaganza tomorrow two hours on KF VI 1 to 3 p.m. Central and Nick. I imagine we're going to hear a lot more about Johnny Cash down the over the next few weeks in (00:51:53) American roots. Oh indeed. Thanks a lot gentlemen. Appreciate it. (00:51:58) Kepler who is the host of good and Country. Okay Fai in the Twin Cities Nick Spitzer who hosts American Roots heard each Saturday evening here on Minnesota Public Radio, as we remember the late great Johnny Cash who died this morning at the age of 71 in Nashville, Tennessee. (00:52:16) I wear it for the sick and lonely old for The Reckless ones whose bad trip lift them cold. I wear the black and morning and for the lives that could have been each week. We lose a hundred fine young man, and I I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died believing that we all were on their side. Well, there's things Never will be right. I know and things need changing everywhere you go, but till we starve to make a move to make a few things, right? You'll never see me wear a suit of white. Oh, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day and tell the world that everything's okay, but I'll try to carry off a little Darkness on my back till things are brighter. I'm the Man in Black (00:53:37) today's programming is sponsored in part by Martha and art Kemmer in celebration of the birthday of their grandson Luca West hynek tomorrow, Happy Birthday in advance. We're going to break for some news headlines when we come back. We're going to hear from another American hero John Glenn.