(00:00:00) It's four minutes now past 12 o'clock. And good afternoon. Welcome back to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. No doubt about it. The governor and the 2003 Minnesota Legislature has a tough nut to crack a four to five billion dollar deficit can't be wished away or papered over it requires some big changes in the state budget and reaching agreement on those big changes has not been easy, but this is not the first time the state has faced a big budget Challenge and this are we're going to draw on the collective wisdom of four former Minnesota Governors who had to wrestle with similar challenges former Republican Governors Elmer Anderson. Alcuin Arne Carlson and former dfl Governor Wendell Anderson got together at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey Institute this morning to talk about the problems facing the state specifically Minnesota's sometimes unique philosophy of government. The 2003 Freeman Forum named honor former Governor Orville Freeman was co-sponsored by the Humphrey Institute and Minnesota Public Radio. Joining the former governors on stage was Rodney Leonard author of Freeman. The governor years. We should note that former Governor. Jesse Ventura was not invited to attend today Lori Sturdevant editorial writer and columnist for the Star Tribune moderated. This morning's discussion. (00:01:24) Well Governor's today Begins the last full week of the regular 2003 legislative session and the legislature and the governor are nowhere close to agreement on how to balance the budget to each of you that must sound rather familiar each of you including governor. Also Freeman faced deficits and several of them actually were not that much different in percentage terms (00:01:47) from the deficit that's converting the state (00:01:49) now each of you call the legislature (00:01:52) into special session. So Governor Quinn, you're not alone. (00:02:01) I'd like to start out by adding around this morning as are these the how can a governor and other elected officials? All get through a budget crisis without eroding what we think of as Minnesota's common good. (00:02:15) Is it possible to strengthen Minnesota Community during tough times or are (00:02:20) tough times just inevitably (00:02:22) toxic to our common Enterprise I ask each of you to respond in turn (00:02:28) and this time we'll go in chronological order of service. So Governor Elmer L. Andersen is up (00:02:32) first, go ahead. (00:02:36) My turn (00:02:37) yes your turn. Go ahead. (00:02:42) I don't hear very well to gives me an opportunity to say whatever I want (00:02:48) to say, (00:03:06) but first I want to say I'm pleased to him to be at a meeting that serves to honor the memory of Orville Freeman. He was a good friend. We were opponents in one election. But most of the time we were working together, I admired his stamina among other things in 1950. He ran for attorney general and was defeated in 1952. He ran for governor and was defeated. But undeterred he ran for governor 1954 and was elected he was persistent and what he believed in and consistent in adhering to his principles always he went on from the governorship to be secretary of agriculture and in every Association he served with great distinction, so I can't say enough for the contribution he made to the culture and life of Minnesota and I'm delighted to be here. And by being here in participating in this doing honor to the memory of one of Minnesota's great (00:04:22) governors. (00:04:33) One thing that all governors learn is that you don't sell taxes taxes don't sell you don't go into a store to spend money. You going to the store to get something and the incidence of paying you accept and that's the way it is in government one time in st. Anthony Park. We pulled a neighborhood as to how many people favored you Center and Langford Park and about 93 percent of the people said they favored it. Then we asked if they'd be willing to have a slight addition made to their property tax assessment to cover the cost of it and 95% I said no. There was one characteristic that may have today's application when Minnesota was in the highest ranked relatively of state taxes paid and there was some concern of some people as there always is by being a high incomes paying income tax state. But during that time Minnesota went from being below the national average in per capita income to going above the national average in per capita income and at that time they went from being an out migration state to an in migration State and they change from being a state of declining. Population to one of increasing population and the minnesotans of that period accepted the taxes. They wouldn't have voted for them if it was put to a yes or no question, but some of the more Discerning realized that when you have a progressive tax system as we do those who can afford to pay more pay more and so the benefits of the investment are disproportionately paid to low-income people so they should be for taxes but they're led to believe that someone is taking away from them and maybe I conclude with one thing more some and said the other day that 222 tax now would be taking money out of the national economy. But to me Texas has put money into the economy into essential Public Services into education into culture into Parks highways, so it is unfortunate that the pledge was made that we solve the deficit without making any tax increases. They might better be called Revenue adjustments. (00:07:55) But the people (00:07:58) the people of Minnesota are want to kind of state we've had and I'm sure we'll get back to it if we don't take too long getting away from it, but We certainly should let it be known maybe one final thing. There is a great deal of activity at the legislative session. People are meeting on the steps of the Capitol. But the decisions are not made at the Capitol during the legislative session. They're made in the precinct caucuses of each party there made during the campaign when pledges are sought from candidates to spend a lot of money in a lot of effort and time at the legislative session is not nearly as rewarding as getting into the system where the decisions are made and participating in Precinct caucuses and platform building and recognizing that Minnesota is a special State we have wonderful. Public services and we're willing to pay for them and which kind of swallow hard and the taxes but we wouldn't have it any other way. (00:09:24) Thank you. That was former Governor Elmer L Andersen and you can see why I'm rather partial to him. But I've actually partial all these Governors there (00:09:42) are wonderful public servants enough. (00:09:44) Even the next one Wendell Anderson (00:09:46) who comes a spectre logical (00:09:48) order as (00:09:50) how about getting through a deficit and still preserving Minnesota's comic book How is how is that possible first? I'd like to be associated. with the remarks of Governor Elmer Anderson If I could name two people that best represent what Minnesota means it would be Orville Freeman and Eleanor Anderson. (00:10:13) So proud that this (00:10:22) my hearing was good at (00:10:23) that (00:10:41) considering he's a republican. He's kind of funny to Jane and Mike. Let me say this and I Or was my role model, and I'm sure I didn't measure up but he was everything I wanted to be. He played football for Bernie Bierman. He got a letter. Phi Beta Kappa, I don't know what that means. He was a Marine. A war hero. I was 12 When The War ended. Lost a cousin at Normandy and a cousin on the back and in March, I knew and studied the war came back and really was founder of the dfl party governor and then secretary of agriculture (00:11:35) for eight years. I mean, (00:11:37) that's no one does that I just want to thank the Freeman Family for for their husband and for the dead now the I'm the only person Governor here ex-governor. Who's not a member of the family-oriented political party I've got good news for you. I went to see Sheriff McGowan. I know you're concerned about your safety. I have right here a Colt 45 here 66. (00:12:25) Why you looking at me (00:12:31) extra ammunition clip when I came here this morning, they check me out at brought, you know, I don't like the food they serve here. I had a wonderful turkey sandwich. And some wonderful coffee from home They confiscated the coffee and the sandwich you go in with that gun as long as it's loaded. So I just if you want to go to the bathroom and I really need to escort you and it just and the other thing is for my for my Republican friends. Well who co-founded the effort to stop the lottery during lunch. We've installed in the basement 2020 slot machines 20 slot machines and I expect the Republican Governors family-oriented. Governor's to be down there playing the slot machines because for every Buck you put in a slot machine two cents goes to the state. You happy? I (00:13:30) I've got the last rebuttal are (00:13:39) Lori. I look here. I see Governor's I see mr. Leonard and so forth. I don't know why you invited us. Where's mr. Wiggly? Where's mr. Wiggly? You know what that is? He runs state government. Mr. Wiggly. You don't what's his first name? Michael Michael Wiggly. I remember when he was born. I really do. I know his mother his mother is gone. He control state government you go to see Wiggly and you sign in and That's it. What? Why would you ask me a question when you could go? See my Quigley? Does anybody here know Mike Quigley? He's running State, you know, isn't it? Wonderful person, isn't it? Wonderful person? I don't get it. Why would you want to be governor? (00:14:33) And you can't do (00:14:33) anything. It is them. I honestly don't understand it in 1933. Fritz pay attention 1933 during the height of the depression thousands and thousands unemployed. What did the legislature in the Govern do in Minnesota? They passed a progressive income tax. Tax the people that were working. And by state law dedicated every dollar of the state income tax to K through 12 education, and that was the law in Minnesota from 1933 to 1955. Did it did it work in World War Two when 11 million men were drafted Minnesota of the 48 states. Was number one in terms of the fewest men rejected for reasons of education and number two fewest rejected. for reasons of Health they even accepted Al Queen the tax system worked the tax system work as Elmer's said for all of my adult life. Our per capita income was in the middle. Our per capita spending for Education was in the top five for the top ten and at work in a screwing it up. I'm gone (00:16:14) now for the Republican rebuttal we have former Governor. He has to be the Past (00:16:27) Masters of dealing with deficits. How is it done first? Here's something for the slot machine. One of the things I would like to do is to answer your question because what we're confronted with is how we find the common good with the ideological differences that exist. And the problem is that we look at our ideology. Her ideals rather than our vision. and when we insist on our ideal Our ideologies it may not be that the moral imperative or the moral inspiration comes into play. But when it comes to a vision it comes to a vision and I going to explain playing this and then it comes more to the moral imperative that is involved and I'll use it this way. If any time you want to look at it Administration Washington that went awry because of their ideologies a it was the Nixon Administration. And I say that because and I use that as an example because you can look at some other ones, but when we shoot darts at the other party and not admit our own failure, it leads to the division amongst people because frankly as I listened this morning and the and the shack were driven at Republicans. I felt my reaction Rising I wanted to be defensive, but I know you can't be defensive if you're going to reach the common good now those of you who think because there's a week left that is hopeless people felt that every time before when they face the same situation and for some reason or other we found an answer eventually sometimes having to go to a special session what we're going to find an answer to this when you read Rod Leonard's book, We saw that deficit was about the same percentage as he points out 14.8% at that time. Now's probably a little closer to 16 percent in mind. It was about 15 percent but his solution was withholding withholding of the individual income tax. Now I happen to get elected to the state senate the same year that Orville Freeman was elected to be the governor and I remember how we fought against withholding at that time. He wasn't able to get withholding through while he was in office. I'm a good you know, it wasn't till Elmer Anderson came into office that it came about. It takes a while for ideas to evolve into something that's acceptable the greatest disappointment. I had while I was governor was that we could not reduce class sizes and Elementary School to 15 kids are less. Now, do you know why I didn't go through because of how this the house was evenly divided. Doing Republicans Democrats one more Democrat every dfl voted against reducing class size. Every Republican voted in favor of it. Now, you know that every dfl does not oppose lower student smaller classes. And you also know that every Republican is not in favor of it. But in order to make certain that I lost. They voted that way because they're for people would know they won. You see they had the idea the ideal the ideology what they had lost the vision. Now there isn't time in this one week to capture the vision. Well, I'm going to use the man to my right Elmer L Andersen about capturing the vision because El Muro Anderson made such a dramatic impact on my life and how he was and he at that time I can't say the same thing about Orville Freeman because he was the enemy he was a governor as you see see at that time, but I've learned to respect this man and recognize who he was and why he was supported what Elmer did but he had it can legislative Commission on exceptional children and you mentioned that there shortly in your book because he showed me how you can bring both sides to a vision. And how it was that we went to see. Classes and training programs for exceptional children handicapped children, we learn the heart. Of a handicapped children, we learned a heart of teachers a handicapped children. We stood there dfl and Republican you say now it was conservative and liberal then we saw their heart. We did something else at the same same time that I learned because the Fair Employment Practices commission was established when I was in the legislature in the Senate and Orville Freeman was the governor. You know people African-Americans who had graduates degrees in Minnesota were shining shoes. Because the denial of a person because of the color of their skin and I sat there as a conservative and I know Elmer voted for that but I sat there are conservative with all that pressure on me with the ideal. No, you can't force people to do something of this nature and there and I remember talking to the to the to the Senate and say there isn't it an African-American we call them different name at that time and in my district, you know, why don't we all should I vote for it? Is there any Improvement to the economy at that time or anything of that? I said, I'm going to vote for it all for only one reason. because right this is right. This is what we learn for in the vision of what has right. Now it is felt that is right when the government takes more money from people than is needed to expand. And so they give a rebate and all now you can either do as Wendy tried to do and couldn't do I remember him saying to me you only want to get to vote for having a rainy day fund was his wife and (00:23:31) nobody else in the (00:23:34) state will go forth. Now in the times of a good economy. You can as we have implemented a rainy day fund provide once you could take care of these times. But the pressure for a rebate is so great. And I find that is not wrong to give rebate if you want to at that time, but at the time when we have a deficit we have now and we can't keep these Services. We need to step up to the plate and increase of taxes. Now if I could just take a moment from Rod Leonard's book and just a very short thing. Is he quoting from the G Cameron pumps and study. And here is the vision that we've never have reached and it is this the time is near at hand in this state when the legislature was Grant local communities authority to Levy new not property taxes of substantial Revenue potential or local government will have to appeal to the legislature for further and substantial grants and Aid or for further sharing of State collected taxes or both. You see we've never found that. and I so what's happening is and the state is assuming more and more responsibilities. The Republicans don't want to have Society income taxes and the Democrats are trying to protect the property taxes. And what we're saying to the people a local level, you can't raise taxes you put a lid on that if their vision is for better schools. If a Minneapolis, you don't want to have so many kids feel as they are is unconscionable the worst crime way of the state of Minnesota are the kids who fail to don't finish High School. We can't do it. Because in the local level you have to have a referendum. He imagined the state legislature having to have a referendum in order to increase the income taxes for education. Why Can't We Trust School board members to have the authority if they need it. There's no other place to get it and to increase in property taxes. In canopy so bad. There is even property taxes or here in the state when you need money what tax? Would be the fairest one it would be to those who have proven their ability that they can pay taxes and that's the income tax. Now one of the things that have been said is that if you that the thing that is more permanent, you know our taxes you never can reduce them again, we have done this in the past but a surtax on the income taxed and it has been removed again, we prove that we can do it. Now. This won't be done as a fight over taxes as governor. And as Governor Anderson's say it can only occur when he heads a vision. On the services were going to provide for people from government. But unless we could also trust local governments were Community is formed that we heard about before that's where is going to happen. That's where you two fight about it. Rather than on all picked up by the state and now the state has become legislators become the school board. See this is what we need to do is to capture a vision and talk about the vision. And so when Mark Ritchie talked about the economy. And the society but he talked about life. Here's what we talked about is life. And we need to talk how we see life, which is connecting with the transcendental. That means their faith comes into it. This is the last part I want to say when our faith comes into it. We cannot force everybody to live according to our faith in government. We need to govern ourselves is though those of us who follow Jesus Christ were twenty percent of the population and we had governance For all the others would treat us the way we want to be treated as though we were 20% and as we see the new culture of people coming in here. We need to treat them in that same way that Vision how we can live with each other and govern each other as though they were in the majority rather than ourselves (00:28:43) another handy Carlson. You've been sitting quietly all this time. I know you take an abuse of my right Question of keeping the common good alive during the deficit. (00:28:56) Well, you're very very kind. First of all to the Freeman Family. I want to thank you for your public service over the generations. I mean, it's meant a lot to minnesotans. I think it's good to hear a panel of former governors talk about their definition and expectations as it relates to the quality of life. And I think all of us here today have sort of shown a bias and so I'm going to be a little bit contrary and if I may and and that is first of all, I don't begrudge anybody the enormity of the pain of establishing a budget. and I certainly don't begrudge it during adverse times as Governor Qui indicated there about three or four Governors here who all went through a comparable crisis where anywhere from 13 to 16 percent of your general spending dropped out from under you and the legislature is besieged with the spending system and bear in mind that spending system expects a 20% increase in the best of times and then once to protect that increase during the worst of times and no matter what decision any Governor makes I'll guarantee you their popularity ratings will decline And they do it's a very painful task. Having said that the question becomes what obligation does the governor have the first obligation is I think the panel is fairly well laid out is you've got to have a vision politics increasingly is attracting too many people who think of politics and the concepts of trumpets blowing and standing ovations. Forgetting about the enormous loneliness that occurs. I'd like to see someday a panel on the more. Yoomin side of governing. How lonely Franklin Roosevelt was in the White House? How lonely it is when you're making the difficult decision, even your allies aren't with you. I remember when my popularity was down to 34 percent. I didn't want to go out at night. I was (00:31:03) hesitant to go to (00:31:03) audiences. I felt everybody hated me and that's a personal thing. Until I went to my first Governor's conference and discover the governor of Rhode Island was down to (00:31:15) 9% and no no no. No, (00:31:27) but he got caught in the moment. He put his hand on the Bible and took the oath of office his his Credit Union system totally collapsed. Plus his budget collapsed. And when you're down to 9% you have to question the Loyalty of your own (00:31:45) family, but it's (00:31:53) it's also during times of adversity that you really start to learn. And one of the dilemmas you have in the Minnesota system as we elect the governor November. We tell them by the end of January. You've got to prepare your budget for two years and that's an incredibly difficult Mission. It's not the right way to run a ship. The truth is the true budget should be done a year after the governor comes in office give him a chance to live in the house before he starts to remodel it gives him a far better feel for where he is and where he would like to go and also gets a better feel of the legislature itself. Having said that the reality is that the governor does when he puts his hand on the Bible. He does take responsibility for defining the quality of life. And I would argue that there has been a shift in Minnesota politics. And once you crack the egg, I'm not so sure how you how you go back to where it was. When you look at this audience today. You see a sprinkling of people Democrat Republican independent who were all essentially part of the central political system of Minnesota. And it was pragmatism that ultimately rained it was pragmatism that ultimately allowed for the closing of a session. Sadly the caucus system within both political parties has been overtaken by the ideologues. And their Prime goal is to seize control protect control maintain control and to be true to their ideology. And I think what was sad about the last election is the media never bothered to read the political platforms. They shut up and then we wouldn't be so surprised to see it enacted. The truth of the matter is that's what we (00:33:49) got. (00:33:52) The second thing is If we're to go back to a more Centrist oriented system, we've got to create the institutions that allow us to do her. I would argue the biggest losses. We've had our the to family newspapers are now corporately owned and driven by different set of expectations. The Citizens League for all practical purposes has collapsed or is near collapse. It's not what it was and in its Heyday of the 50s and 60s it drove the Minnesota agenda. I mean, I remember coming into the legislature and Tom Berg and I would fight over which Bill we could possibly get our hands on that came from the Citizens League because they were so good all Metropolitan governance emanated from the Citizens League. And they brought together business labor Community leaders political leaders and compelled us to think about tomorrow. You take a look at the environmental laws that put Minnesota in a top level position for environmental position. The whole area brought human rights that alch we talked about. And even in the area of debt, we learned a lot from the Citizens League by simply studying. How debt came about how you manage debt and how you do Under the best of the best of circumstances manage your future and your future expectations. but once you turn the system over to those people who believe that the purpose of public office is to get elected and bring in all the technicians at all the posters and all the people that tell you what trigger words do you use At that point the common good and the common sense that used to Prevail starts to dissipate. And neither political party will acknowledge it. But the truth of the matter is technicians political technicians dominate America's political system. And that's one of the reasons the system is Awash with money. There used to be a day. When I see George far here. He raised money for the Democrats very little (00:36:14) and (00:36:14) his counterpart was George this at that time on the Republican side, but suffice it was not was it George Well Wendy, please stop living for thank you (00:36:26) George (00:36:27) this and Bob Forsyth, but suffice it to say when money came into the system it rarely had strings attached today increasingly. We have strings attached legislators are flooded and I'm not exaggerating with well over a hundred questionnaires. That they privately fill out privately sent back and are kept in secret. But if that legislator violates the pledges that he makes in that document in order to secure the support of that interest group that interest group will publicly condemn that legislator. So where does the Public's input come into the process? the answer is basically it doesn't how else can you explain a gun Bill even forget about whether you love guns seriously, but put that aside. I mean, I see mayor Ryback here and what a problem he's got. But in my building we would have to hire three shifts of people on the Skyway system and in every entrance which must be at least 15 to bark at every incoming person that you can't have a weapon. How does anyone with an IQ that approaches double digits (00:37:54) past that kind of legislation? (00:38:13) But let me just quickly go over the budget itself adverse times to also offer opportunities the offer opportunities of really allowing you personally to become familiar with the budget. And that is an exciting experience. Secondly it allows you to bring the budget into your staff. And that also has a tremendous benefit because now more people are familiar with virtually every line of that budget. Thirdly, it allows you to ask the right questions start knocking on the door of duplication start knocking on the door of cost efficiency and start knocking on the door of how you rearrange Management Services in a more cost efficient way to possibly have some impact on that budget because you do want to reduce the growth in expenditures. So you don't have to make the decision of eliminating quality programs vis-à-vis tax increases The priorities that I think ought to be set and that have long defined the quality of life in Minnesota is one you protect the interest of the young people and that is the prevention agenda. It is infinitely cheaper to spend a few thousand dollars on Head Start than it is to spend 40 plus thousand to incarcerate that person later in life. The second is Healthcare. You cannot deny any human being the right to basic health care. The third would be those areas of legitimate investment now taxes and investment we've over used that phrase. But for instance that a places like the University of Minnesota, which is a large part of our economic engine you want to make sure you do absolutely nothing that's going to cause harm to that engine because you want to feed it all the fuel it needs to continue to grow jobs. And and the proof of the pudding is I can't remember if was governor Elmer Anderson or Alkali or somebody made the comment that after a certain tax increase job growth resulted the same was true in our case. We have the adverse years of 1991-1992 by 1995. We were leading the United States and job growth. Because you have to protect the infrastructure that allows you to drive economic growth. Finally, the question becomes should this legislative session? Yield to the pressure for a tax increase when you got a four and a half billion dollar problem. And you're a gauging in every shift in every borrowing technique. You can it stands to reason you're not making the sensible choices. And in that kind of an environment there are several types of tax vehicles that are available to lower. The amount of pain that you inflict we do not benefit when we deny an increasing amount of Health Care to low-income families. We do not benefit when we abolish the the prevention agenda for children, and my wife is beside herself with the elimination of so much funding for fetal alcohol. It is wrong. And so I think it is right as all of my predecessors have said here to come in with a balanced approach. Yes if there is pain but if you really want to share the pain and shouldn't always be on the lower income families. It should be spread much more equally which means a tax increase particularly on those of us who can afford it. (00:42:16) Thank you. Let me say Governor Carlson. I thought that was fantastic. Thank you. I can see why you weren't endorsed by the Republicans. How true. The last two minutes of our hour and we haven't heard from Rod Leonard yet. So Roger you go ahead and put some words inaudible famous mouth as you often did in the past (00:42:58) but I just want to comment that if what you heard so far today is typical of Minnesota future Governor's there would be no work for speechwriters. I think the important thing is what you heard is that there is a Minnesota consensus that is now under attack and Going back to 1954 when Orville Freeman was elected. He came in with a 50 million dollar deficit which is proportionately as large as the 4.2 or 4.3 billion. Deficit we face today. And it was a stunning surprise because nobody had anticipated it. So what Freeman was faced with is essentially the same question that Governor pawlenty is faced with today. He has to make a choice between either raising taxes or cutting services and Freeman was very clear as to where his priorities were and the reason that he was elected. In the early discussions, he said very clearly he was elected to lead and that he was determined to raise taxes to maintain the quality and to build a future that Minnesota and he did that and it essentially grew out of the the problem that Minnesota had been living on surpluses that were created during World War II and were created because state government from the end of World War II until 1954 was essentially not addressing are spending money and then the Surplus has disappeared and they finally had to face the reality. and that really began then the question as to where Minnesota was going to go and I what you have heard today is that Minnesota became a state that led that build the future and that the political disputes were essentially between which party which Governor could do that job better. It was the the role of the part of the partisan role was was largely diminished compared to what partisanship has come to mean today. You heard Governor Carlson talking about the the diminution of the political party as a as a means towards consensus of gathering. differences within political within within a certain area politics and coming to an agreement as to where money would be spent. every legislative session from 1954 through today and I'm quite clearly through the future is essentially a question of where one of the money's going to come from where taxes are going to be raised who pays the bill the The big difference is that we're now facing what what you heard in the opening panel of of a shift in the way in which Minnesota is is addressing is seeking to address. Its problem. I think the one thing that when you sum up what What Freeman did was it he realized that in order to create a consensus? He had to involve he had to involve the public. He had to make Minnesota Government to more participatory and he used a special commissions. He used a variety of those kinds of devices. And he was able them to come forward with a consensus position that was reached essentially by the voters by the public. Governor cui read a quote out of the the text edit commission stack study committee in 1956. Which essentially was an effort to try to address the problems of developing human resources and Minnesota. It was not the the lack of willingness to do that. It was that there did not have a tax structure that was capable of addressing the pressures that were coming out of post-world War II birth rates and about the awareness that government could do a much more positive role. So the tax study commission committee set forth. They new pattern in state government in tax policy. And as as Governor Qui indicated, we're still still basically trying to come to terms with that but the essential conclusion of that study was that the property tax in Minnesota if we rely on that as a major as a major source of funding is going to keep Minnesota leaving a sort of unable to respond to the problems. so once again, I think the important for me the important thing is that speech writers should write speeches and not make them (00:50:15) if there's one thing that you would suggest that this legislature this governor do this session to try to rebuild community and restore consensus in Minnesota. What would that (00:50:26) be? (00:50:30) That's a nice simple (00:50:31) question (00:50:39) needs balance that needs consideration of word legitimate savings can be made. I remember once we set up and Equalization aid for distress school districts school districts it in have a base sufficient to equal other school district. So Equalization Aid was provided then it became apparent that some school districts distress school districts were taking advantage of their special situation and weren't even doing their share with the text-based a hand. And so we set up an equalization Aid Review Committee to try (00:51:28) Get the best (00:51:30) use of the money passable. (00:51:33) So I think every session has the (00:51:36) responsibility of prudent review to be sure that no money is being lost that no service is going (00:51:46) without. too much (00:51:52) but what to do now I think (00:51:55) is very difficult because the governor is (00:52:00) So committed to no tax increase that about the only solution that I can see was what brought the sales tax when Harold levander was elected governor in 1966. He had pledged himself to veto a sales tax bill, but by that (00:52:27) time accumulating deficits that had started in the freemen administration extended through mine and roll vogs (00:52:38) something had to be done and the legislature knew it so (00:52:42) they passed a sales tax bill. Levander (00:52:48) vetoed it and the legislature passed it over his veto I'd say the one solution today (00:52:57) is for people to stand firm that there's going to be a balanced (00:53:03) approach to today's problem. And if the (00:53:06) governor can't sign it the legislature must pass it over his (00:53:12) veto. We're out of time for our first hour. It's well that Orville Freeman get the last word. So for the benefit of our radio audience, I'll read the words that are in our program today over Freeman in 1955 said our problem is that we have not yet wholly convinced ourselves that government services like private Services cost money and that if wisely conceived and properly administered such Services Elevate our standard of living and actually improve our general financial situation. Thank you Governor's very much. (00:53:57) That was Laurie Sturdevant at the Star Tribune moderator of this morning's 2003 Freeman Forum featuring former, Minnesota Governor. Zellmer Anderson, Wendell Anderson, Arne Carlson and Elk we The Forum was co-sponsored by the University of Minnesota Humphrey Institute where the Forum was held this morning and by Minnesota Public Radio, That does it for our midday program today. I'm Gary eichten. Thanks so much for joining us. Hope you can join us tomorrow tomorrow Minnesota meeting that focuses on the state of the world big world National international issues. Among others. Norm Coleman will be featured programming is supported by the Iron Range resources and Rehabilitation agency working to create jobs in northeastern Minnesota, including 113 jobs for Navigant integrated services in Ely the I triple are working for you. (00:54:58) On the next fresh air the songwriting Trio behind some of (00:55:01) motown's biggest hits Brian Holland Lamont Dozier and Edward Holland. (00:55:05) They receive a BMI icon award May 13th. Join us for the next fresh air (00:55:13) eight o'clock tonight here on Minnesota Public Radio (00:55:17) here to ninety one point.