Voices of Minnesota: Military veterans Avis Schorer and Ken Porwoll

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MPR series "Voices of Minnesota" features interviews with World War II military veterans Avis Schorer and Ken Porwoll.

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(00:00:00) Good afternoon from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Steven John city leaders in Roseau. Say they need more financial help if the northern Minnesota town is to recover from the devastating floods of two months ago. So far the state department of trade and economic development has provided about $600,000 for business assistance. They Minnesota recovers task force has promised up to a million and a half dollars for flood mitigation, but officials say a long-term solution such as diverting the river around Roseau could cost more than 100 million dollars. The Metropolitan mosquito control district is releasing an extra eight hundred twenty thousand dollars from its budget Reserve to fight mosquitoes and the West Nile Virus. The mosquito population is unusually large after much of the Twin Cities area received above normal rainfall this year a system designed to alert the public about kidnappings gets its first Statewide test today, the Amber Alert System stands for America's missing a broadcast emergency response and is named after a Texas girl. Abducted in the early 1990s. The system utilizes the Statewide emergency alert system with messages about the abduction broadcast on TV and radio also message boards along highways will post information to passing motorists. Janelle Rasmussen is Minnesota's amber alert systems coordinator. She says certain criteria must be met before an amber alert is issued child has to be under the age of 17. We have to have proof that they're in serious danger and we have to have information that would be beneficial and getting out to the public asking for help in locating a suspect the child or the vehicle Minnesota is the 13th state to join the Amber Alert Network. Nationally. Amber Alerts have been credited with helping locate 21 missing children. Today's test will take place at 145 77 degrees in the Twin Cities. That's news from NPR. All right. Thank you. Stephen six minutes now past 12. And good afternoon. Welcome back to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us 57 years ago today and what's come to be called V-J Day 57 years ago today the Japanese surrendered bringing to an end World War 2 the most destructive war in history nearly 60 million people died. Well today we're going to hear from two of the many many minnesotans who played an important part in helping to preserve this nation's freedom and to stop the spread of fascism Around the World Bloomington. Resident Ava's Shore was an Army Nurse pinned down on the beach at and anzio Italy during one of World War II s most brutal battles Roseville resident can pour wall was an Army infantryman who survived the Bataan Death March and three and a half years as a prisoner of the Japanese. They were interviewed as part of our voices of Minnesota series here is Minnesota public. Radio's Danielson. Once I built a railroad (00:03:01) now, it's done brother. (00:03:05) Can you spare a (00:03:06) dime (00:03:08) United States was emerging from the Great Depression as the war in Europe was expanding Avis Daggett raised on a farm in Iowa was 22 years old. She had completed nurses training in Des Moines and had signed on with the Red Cross the job included a pledge to serve her country in a National Emergency Daggett who later married and is now a the shore says she worried the US would enter the war. (00:03:33) I didn't want any part of the war. But there was this one hand where they said there was this great need for nurses in the service and then I just didn't want to be involved in (00:03:48) it. Did you have an inkling or did the other young women have an inkling of what war Duty war service taking care of soldiers might You like (00:03:57) know I think a lot of them thought. Oh what a lark, you know be surrounded by all these men, you know, this is going to be a great opportunity to find a husband if they didn't have a boyfriend or something like that (00:04:09) sure had no inkling. She would be called up and assigned to an Army medical field Hospital unit that would eventually land at anzio Italy where Allied Forces were trapped in one of World War II s deadliest Battles (00:04:22) Through The Dark Days of the depression. I heard President Roosevelt assure us. The days ahead would be better now. He was telling us we were at War (00:04:31) 55 years after the war sure has written a book about her experience. She recounts how on December 7th 1941 a neighbor pounded on her door telling her to turn on the radio to hear the news of Japan's attack on Pearl (00:04:44) Harbor conflicting reports about the number of killed and wounded filled the airwaves. Each report was worse than the last I wanted to run home and talk to Mother and Dad. I felt an overwhelming. (00:04:55) Need (00:04:56) for the security of family and home deep down. I knew our lives had changed on December 7th (00:05:03) in the shore was ordered to report for Army Nurse training at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas. She spent a year there and at other us bases (00:05:10) when I arrived at the camp, it was a few scattered wooden barracks and gravel roads. It didn't look like my mental picture of a military installation. And when I left there a year later there was about a hundred thousand troops that are in a thousand bed hospital. It just seemed to come up overnight the atmosphere throughout the camp was restless and changing new nurse has arrived so often that I no longer tried to become acquainted transfers to other Army Post came without warning old friends from my earliest. Army days were among them. Everyone was powerless to change military orders in the transfers often brought a flood of Tears before resignation and acceptance (00:05:52) at Fort Sam Houston near San Antonio, Texas Ava sure. Or and other medical personnel became the 56th evacuation Hospital in the spring of 1943 orders came to board a troop ship bound from New York, but with no word on their destination (00:06:08) we learned that we are aboard the Mariposa a luxury liner that had formerly sailed from San Francisco to Honolulu the ship built for 1,000 passengers had been converted to a troop ship for 5000 all doors padded with pink satin attested to the luxurious quarters in peacetime. Bathroom fixtures were made of marble two passengers had shared a stateroom that now held 15 the gleaming white ship had been painted Battleship Gray. We were under strict blackout conditions and no one dared light a cigarette on deck at (00:06:41) night sure and the others in the 56th evacuation Hospital landed in North Africa and April 1943 (00:06:48) when they were through fighting and in Africa. We loaded on trucks 12 to a truck and we rode across North Africa took us eight days over mountains through roads at a bomb craters in a river beds that didn't have a bridge and it was it was a long eight days. We had were issued. We carried our own food. We were issued three cans of food a day and one can was hash one was meat and beans about like pork and beans in the other was stew and we're given a quart of water a day while we were there on July 4 around July 4th. We received some our first battle casualties. We had Air Raids. Our first Air Raids they were at this time. The troops were gathered there in the harbor, you know for the invasion of Sicily and the German Planes game over and they were The harbor but someone came awfully close to the building's we were living and from those Air Raids. I mean when we first our first air raid while we were out there cheering like we were at a football game or something because you know, it was quite a spectacular sight and then we got about 200 casualties. So after that we respected and aerated (00:08:18) after the Allies defeated the Germans their the medical unit was sent to Italy where their hospital was much closer to the fighting and they treated many more patients with combat wounds (00:08:27) often these patients when have just one woman, but they'd have several and It was rather appalling and sobering I mean, you know, this this war is real and is real to us. (00:08:43) Is there anything in your training for the kind of appalling conditions? You were seeing in War? (00:08:48) I don't think you could train for what you see in a war. I really don't we had army cots and they had a thin mattress and if they were fortunate they had a pill but we did not have sheets. We had plenty of army blankets and you know to take care of patients in those circumstances total opposite of what we were trained to do soldiers arrived at the hospital caked with mud and unshaven and they had the appearance of old men the Infantry suffered wounds much worse than those. We saw from the Air Raids in North Africa are 750 bed hospital soon swelled to 1100 patients. The buildings could not hold all the wounded are men set up tents to handle the Overflow. Most of the casualties did not have just one wound, but suffered multiple fractures from the shrapnel of bursting (00:09:43) shells conditions for everyone sure remembers were Dreadful the troops had the worst of it (00:09:49) the rain and cold brought patients with new problems. We received hundreds of men who had been sitting in fox holes filled with water many were unable to walk on their red swollen feet when they reach the hospital the condition was called trench foot. We gave them dry socks rest and warm foot baths. We sent those that improved back to the front to continue fighting (00:10:13) the medical personnel were coping with rain, which created knee-deep mud, their hospital was in a bombed-out building where only the stairs remained intact one of the biggest job. She recalls was cleaning up the garbage perfect breeding ground for pests of All (00:10:27) Sorts. I was lying face-down on my cot. Hoping to get a little nap. I heard one of the nurses muttering and cursing when she tramped through our quarters. She carried a pail of water. What's the problem? I asked bedbugs. My mosquito net is full of bedbugs was her Kurt answer. I thought momentarily I'm glad it isn't mine. I turned onto my back. I looked up and saw thousands of bugs on the olive drab mosquito. Net. I quickly tore the netting from the cot ran downstairs and lit a match to it (00:10:58) January 1944 the 56th evacuation hospital was ordered to pack up and move. Once again Destination Unknown sure and the others wrote an open trucks in the middle of the night to a nearby Harbor where they learned they'd board ships for nzo. The Allies had landed at the Italian port city as part of their push to take Rome sure and the others huddled together for warmth. They kept the cold hunger and fatigue at Bay with the Hope they'd soon be safe and warm on a big ship. She says they were disappointed to be put on a small landing craft that proved no match for a stormy. Iranian (00:11:32) as soon as we got out of the shelter of the harbor out on the sea, then there was a terrible storm came up and this ship was tossed around like a cork and so we had this tremendous crash and and what had happened they had contacted an LSD, which is a larger ship and the some of the nurses were terribly sick at that time. I was not sick but I was sure fighting it and they said we could transfer to this LST, which is a larger ship. So they threw a ladder over the side of the ship and we went up the ladder to this LST. Well when we got on there and with that, this is great, you know beyond a bigger ship and it was I asked this sailor. Well, when are we going to get to an zoo? And he said That that you know, this is a pretty bad storm, but we would get there and then he informed me that they were carrying high octane gasoline and dynamite and we went to the ends up to NGO and the harbor was packed with ships and and these silverberg barrage balloons overhead, you know just blanketed the whole place and we they did not have any way to get us off of this thing for about 36 hours and during that time. We just hit air raid after air raid and some of these bombs and planes and everything were just falling in the water all around us and the shells and I didn't think I'd ever lived yet off that ship then when we did get off of it the men along the road. It's a what are women doing here, you know, this place is hot get out as fast as you can and so forth and so on we knew that we had sailed in pretty dangerous place (00:13:21) sure and the others had In the middle of one of World War II s bloodiest stalemates ngos Harbor Beach and all the roads were choked with ships and vehicles carrying supplies Sirens blared as German warplanes dropped bombs. The attacks were non-stop day and night sure says the Americans were pinned down by the (00:13:41) Germans. They would have troops up in the hill and it had these gun emplacements and they could fire at the harbor, you know, they anzio Harbor where our Navy was Harbor was full of navy ships and Supply ships. And then the Navy and fire back over our heads towards the Germans conditions on the beach had grew worse each day. The Germans sent the anzio express with its quarter-ton shells over our heads with increasing regularity the enemy detected every move we made from their observation posts in the Hills. Everything that moved was a (00:14:16) Target Ava Shores book is titled a half acre of Hell a phrase used by soldiers to describe the patch of ground occupied by the hospital. It was surrounded by military supplies targeted by German shells and bombs. The front was literally a few hundred yards (00:14:33) away. We were close enough to the front that if they weren't seriously wounded they could walk to the hospital and the soldiers would often beg to go back to the front because he had a foxhole they did not feel safe in our hospital and The title of my book. Well, I wasn't exactly the title that I'd hoped I would come up with our hospital soon became hell's half (00:14:56) acre the Allied standoff with German forces created tens of thousands of casualties on both sides surgeons worked Around the Clock shifts for nurses were 12 sometimes 20 for even 36 hours. There were no days off the wounds sure writes in her book were Beyond description (00:15:15) the distinctive sweet smell of brain tissue, which I recalled from days and surgery hung heavy in the air. The stench of blood was mingled with oily emissions from the electric motor on a suction machine propped in a sitting position to soldiers shared the machine to clear secretions from their tracheotomies many of the patients suffered wounds of the head and neck some had much of their face missing and others had abdominal wounds a young soldier with a heavily bandaged head cried for his mother. To with head injuries thought they were still in the battlefield fighting the Germans and cursed softly others. Lay quiet making only the guttural sounds of the dying. It was clear that many would not have lived to reach the hospital. If we had not been close to the (00:15:59) front the Furious and deadly standoff at anzio between Allied and German forces continued with both sides throwing thousands more troops and supplies Into The (00:16:07) Fray. I'm sure there were tactical errors. I mean that battle of anzio will never be over. a lot of people felt that the troops should have moved inward because they had a great opportunity others thought they should stay there on the beach until they had more reinforcements and and while they were contemplating whether to move inward or not, the Germans had time to move troops and surround the beachhead and Hitler gave orders that Those troops were to be wiped out at any price and likewise. The Allies said that the beachhead would be held until the last man if necessary. (00:16:54) You're listening to a voice is of Minnesota interview on Minnesota Public Radio with former Army Nurse Ava Shore Steel fragments from the non stop bombing and shelling ripped through the canvas walls of the hospital tense. Sure learn to recognize the sound of approaching enemy aircraft, even before the air raid sirens blared sure writes. Most of the Air Raids came at (00:17:15) night. I ran to the air raid shelter and was just inside when planes dropped flares over the hospital. They lighted the whole area brighter than Des Plaines made pass after pass over the hospital unleashing a deadly load of anti-personnel bombs Jagged fragments of metal tore into the Flesh of anyone near the explosions. Bomb screamed earthward and landed with a thud above the chaos and Bedlam someone shouted. They're falling on the nurses tents. My friend from Des Moines was killed in an air raid 1 there was a dog fight overhead and the British planes I think would change chasing the German planes and the German plane and effort to get away drop their bombs are dropped it on the hospital and everyone in the receive her in the Intensive Care Ward was killed and my friend was one of them (00:18:08) sure says her friend Ellen was the life of the party a song leader always making a joke during Air Raids. She refused to go to the bomb shelters a fragment from a bomb tore into her lung and damaged other organs. Sure stayed by Ellen's bedside. (00:18:25) Her breathing was shallow and her pale skin Ashen. I tried to moisten her parched lips. She waved me away weekly. I could see her life slipping away. She reached to remove the oxygen mask Ellen. We'd better leave the mask on I whispered. She rolled her eyes back and took her last breath. you know, we didn't have time to grieve you had to go on and I think that perhaps that might have been a good thing. We did not have time to grieve and so we just went on we knew there was a desperate need for anything we could do. (00:19:08) It was sure says desperation hung over the beach headed and zo a huge German artillery piece continued to lob quarter-ton shells into the Allied position. Noiseless glider bombs exploded on the beach shore says she was emotionally and physically (00:19:23) exhausted just unrelenting, you know, the Air Raids and the shellings, you know day and night days on end. and it it certainly took its toll and the number of casualties and in morale and I mean no one wanted to quit but you know, we wondered well are we trapped here until were killed? We didn't know of course what was going to happen to us some cried and others went silent a condition called the anzio. She exclaimed many victims those affected shook uncontrollably during a narrator shelling a few days rest warm clothing and food usually return the patient to (00:20:08) normal shorter says the unrelenting pace of treating the wounded kept many of the medical staff from focusing on the horror. They were witnessing until after the (00:20:18) battle. We did have a few that had real serious emotional breakdowns, but it was shortly after we left the beachhead and they'd start recalling what they've been through and I know one of our doctors and One of the nurses, you know had and had to be evacuated to the states. They had real emotional but breaks out (00:20:41) besides bombs and shells the Allied Forces at anzio where the target of German propaganda the sultry voice axis. Sally beamed her radio broadcasts at the troops trying to further demoralize them sure writes that in April 1944 after two and a half months at anzio access Alie began one of her daily broadcasts with the words happy days are here again for the 56th Evac you'll soon be leaving the beachhead sure and the others couldn't imagine what she meant or where she got her information hours later sure her rights. She and the others learned that they were being replaced by the 38th evacuation Hospital group (00:21:18) Easter Sunday, April 9th Dawn dull and dreary a soft rain fell. We packed a few personal items in her bags and sat on our bed rolls while we waited for the 38 they arrived on time. I envied their High Spirit and fresh look, Strain of the past two months and a half showed in our group clothes hung on many who had lost weight. We looked Haggard and unkempt compared to the well-groomed and happy troops that the 38. I was leaving some of my heart at anzio. I turned my eyes toward the cemetery filled with Mark Graves. I said a prayerful farewell to Ellen Gertrude Rita Nick and thousands of others who had lost their lives on the beach (00:22:01) head sure and the others had survived more than 500 Air Raids along with shellings day and night they had cared for thousands who were wounded or sick the tide of the war had turned against the Germans sure and the others in the 56th set up their Hospital unit in several other locations throughout (00:22:19) Italy the trip up to Florence very heavy fighting along the way, you know, I did take the harbor at Leghorn and so forth and to get across the Arno River in Florence was a big objective and then the troops still made it because they couldn't get over the apennine mountains. So we spent seven months there, which is long as we were any one particular place and then the spring then they did get over the apennines into the po valley and by that time it was very Obvious that the German troops were disintegrating they were giving up by the thousands and we set up a hospital and Mussolini stadium and Bellona and we had our last air raid there fortunately, they didn't hit us. We didn't think they had any or Force left, but they did had one plane at least because he sent it over and we thought well now we certainly will be starting home (00:23:19) rumors began flying by April 1945 that the end of the war was near German troops were surrendering sure our rights the German ambulance drivers brought in wounded to their hospital and then turned themselves in their vehicles in at the unit's motor pool German doctor. She says worked alongside the 56th Personnel caring for patients juror says her hopes Rose when shouts went through the camp new orders had (00:23:44) arrived we certainly will be starting home. And but as usual the Army has other ideas for it. So they were having some kind of a skirmish up on the Yugoslavian border. And so we were sent up there much to our grave disappointment. And while we were there they taught us to fire pistols and take them apart and put them back together because as I say, it was a rumor that Since we'd had Battlefield experience we would be sent to Japan but we'd get a leave at home first and that was pretty disheartening rumor. And while we were there they dropped the atomic bomb and then the war was over but it took a long time to get home. I got home the last of October we heard American Music That Grew steadily louder is the ship moved along. We rushed to the starboard side a small boat gaily decorated in red white and blue bunting came into view a lively combo of accordion banjo and trumpet played Sentimental Journey. My dreams are getting better all the time and Beer Barrel polka, they waved and shouted welcome back. We're glad you're home. My throat was tight and I could speak only in a whisper tears streamed without shame down every face on board the ship. (00:25:11) Why did you decide to write the (00:25:12) book? Well, I wasn't really thinking of anything except. I had gone on a tour when damn this lady was riding all the time. And she said well she had taken a course in writing and the name of the course was so my grandchildren will know me and I thought well that sounds like a good idea. And so I decided Well, I would write about that part of my life because I really hadn't discussed it with anyone, you know at that time like they say veterans don't talk about what they did during the war. And so I took a few courses in writing. I took one of the Loft and a few through the extension at the University and and then I joined a writers group and they encouraged me to go ahead and write the book now. It seems like people are terribly interested in World War II and I never I was aware of that interest until just lately. Do you have grandchildren? Yes, I have five (00:26:13) have they read the book. Yes. What did they (00:26:16) think? Well, there's still some of our young I guess. They think it's great that the grandma could put the words together. I don't know. I don't I don't know whether they actually the impact of the war because some they're very my grandchildren are quite young. (00:26:33) What do your children think (00:26:34) are they're very impressed that you know, a lot of this they did not know (00:26:41) and starting to write about it. Did it kind of pour forth or was it like trying to pull it (00:26:45) out? It seemed like once I started I So many have said well, how could you remember all those details? But I think any life-altering experience you notice are you do you do remember it? I mean I can remember some of those conversations. I mean just like they just happen (00:27:03) there is among some people perhaps some who didn't fight in World War Two an attempt to glorify the World War II effort and all of the battles and of course, there's an enormous amount of scholarship that goes with recounting as many details as possible. What what are your thoughts on war and end and it's (00:27:24) reality Well, I just get a chill every time I hear someone say will take military action. I think there's got to be other ways to settle conflicts and there's nothing great about a war. You know, you think you come out the winner, but you don't the price is too heavy in my (00:27:47) opinion. Allied casualties at anzio were 4400 killed more than half of them Americans 18,000 were wounded 6800 taken prisoner or missing historians learned later. German combat losses were very similar to Allied losses. After the war Ava sure married and had three children she became a nurse anesthetist finishing her career at Lutheran Deaconess Hospital in Minneapolis. The 81 year old army veteran lives in Bloomington, Lindsay Brown read passages from Shores book a half acre of hell. You're listening to voices of Minnesota on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Danielson the death and destruction caused by World War to overshadow accounts of survival can pour wall survived. One of the wars most brutal episodes the Bataan Death March and three years as a prisoner of the Japanese in a remarkable turn of events his eventual rescue at the end of the war was aided by another Minnesotan for wall sat in st. Pauls Rice Park not long ago and described his ordeal. He was a 21 year old Brainerd area resident when he joined the National Guard before World War II began poor wall and other guard members from his hometown were activated by the army. They trained as part of an army tank unit at Fort Lewis, Washington in 1941 before they were sent overseas (00:30:19) before we left. I found out that we're going to the Philippines. Wow, isn't that great? I I've been Dreamin most of my life about going to the South Seas and spending some time at and here I'm getting a free trip. I'm going to get a free trip and how could it be (00:30:34) better poor wall and the others were at a base near Manila. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor within hours Japanese bombers hit military Targets in the Philippines US forces suffered a string of setbacks at the beginning of the war. Japan's invasion of the Philippines forced tens of thousands of American and Filipino troops to retreat to the Bataan peninsula where they were forced to fend off Japanese attackers. There was lots of finger pointing at the time why I had orders to move the Allied Forces to a safer Haven been delayed. Why were they short of food and water whatever the reasons the outcome was a disaster the US and Filipino forces ran low on Provisions the American General commanding the US forces on the Bataan Peninsula surrendered in early April 1942 by one account. It was the largest surrender of u.s. Military forces in the country's history 75,000 troops 65,000 of them Filipino and 10,000 Americans including poor wall became prisoners of the Japanese. They began an eight-day forced march to an enemy Garrison. (00:31:43) They lined us up encounters often groups of a hundred and started you off down the down the road to the north. They wouldn't allow you to get water. Even when water was available at the artesian wells the people would go to get water that shoot them. Or if a creek was running underneath, they might allow you to go to the creek and get water because it was polluted. There was maybe dead animals or people in the in the laying in the water and they knew that. Their job is being taken care of for them when they do that. Here about twenty one. You had (00:32:22) all of the optimism of Youth on your side. Where you despairing at this (00:32:26) point? Oh, yes. Yeah because some of the Mind Games they they would play with us is that they would they would kind of tempt you to go for water. And when you did you got shot or at one place, they had a pile of American food stacked up about two stories high and and when people went to that to get food, they killed him, they killed him right on the spot. And another thing was they would they would take a man out of the ranks in start beating on them for some unknown reason at least unknown to us. And then they found out that Americans would come out to help their buddies. And so they did it more frequently. And then they killed all of them. And I got the point of you really hated those Japanese soldiers to to the extent that it showed in your face. And sometimes they would look at the angry face and pull you out and beat you because it was a sign of aggression. And that wasn't allowed with them and they and so then the next step was that you didn't go out to help. And then you begin to think about yourself as not worthy and you're not the Macho person you thought you were and you're not big hearty soldier on the in begin to hate yourself just really down on yourself and say, you know, you're no good. But I had made the decision. I wanted to live and I was going to do what it took to keep my life. (00:34:02) The broiling Tropical Sun hunger and thirst took a toll hundreds of sick or malnourished us and Filipino troops fell by the wayside poor well recalls the anguish of leaving one of his friends behind (00:34:16) and the second day while I'm walking along and I'm aware of for fellows next to me that had gone to school with and one had gone to grade school with and we all played on the same football basketball teams. And so you weren't supposed to talk but we managed to get the idea across it Hing together. And if somebody gets a problem, maybe we can help him. There were at least sixty two of us from Minnesota with the tanks down there plus a number of others that were with the 31st infantry, I believe. What this particular moment is that day. Anyway, the biggest man in the group got a malaria attack. And at first he got his chill and he was shaking and shaking and and even in the Tropic Sun he felt like you're going to freeze. And that's sapped his strength so that when they hit the fever part, he really really weakened and we took turns shouldering them along one of the other side. And and helping them but as the time wore on he got worse. His weight become heavy. He was over 250 in weight and somewhere along the line after about 2 to 2 hours of this the shouldering him. He says look guys, you're going to have to drop me in the ditch because you won't make it helping me. I'm too big. And he knew when he said this that there were no stragglers Left Alive. They were all killed. And we should know let us help a little while longer. You know, we agreed we would try to help. The second time he made mention. He says you're right guy. We can't make it. We don't know if we can make it even without you. Until we agreed to let him go in the ditch and I'm one of them helping him as we go to the side of the road and I'm apologizing as in Jim my I'm really sorry. I just really sorry about this. I don't I don't know what else to say. I am. Really sorry. And his last words to me is don't worry. He says I'll just have to find another way. And I thought wow he hadn't given up. He hadn't thrown into tall. Yet he knew his odds were 200 against them. But he still had positive frame of mind about the thing and so we let him go. How we never look back. Now whenever spoke his name for the rest of the day is it took us to make that walk (00:37:03) can pour wall says showing anger towards his Japanese captors meant a beating or death. So he bottled up his (00:37:09) anger the next person who got mad at was God. Where are you? What are you going to do about this? Why aren't you helping? Why are you allowing all this murdered murdering to go on? And he ended up alone. You didn't belong to their a company 194th in the longer you it didn't have friends and you didn't even have got to go to this a to help. Because you were it was tough. Just really I really a mind game the whole way. (00:37:43) When they reach their destination, the Americans were loaded into rail cars and sent to prison camps there thousands died from malnutrition disease and beatings by now. The Japanese had a plan the survivors would be taken to Japan and used as slave laborers for wall and the other Americans were jammed into (00:38:03) ships. It's terrible. It's terrible. You know, it kind of Beyond description you're packed. So tightly in the hold of the ship. You all can't sit down at the same time. And there's no toilet facilities that toilet facility is a washtub in the middle of the floor. Food is lowered down once a day on a rope because you're 20 foot down in this hole of the ship. and the people that took it upon themselves to distribute the food and the water are just Had to be Saints you got 350 starving men. Some of them are raving mad already by this time and to see that each one gets his fair share of the allotment that's there something. and the human to human waste in the washing around in the place when the we went in in October when it's kind of Stormy time, so they get protection from submarines is one of the things they're looking for but it also was a rough sea voyage and of course their human waste got all over everybody and then the midst of this on a soldier comes down with appendicitis attack and he screaming and screaming and finally a doctor goes over to look at him and diagnosed it as pendous that's about to burst and he says the man needs surgery or he's going to drive us all crazy. So he got in contact with the ship's officers and ask for surgical equipment to do this. And the ship's Captain sends down a jackknife a needle and some button thread. The doctor says I need light. It's dark down here. There's a dark. I can't see so he lowered of 45 watt bulb on the end of an extension cord and while seven been held a man down the doctor took his appendix out. And sewed him up. And then and send the equipment back up to the Japanese officer. Two days later the Japanese officer inquires about the health of the man that had surgery and he's told he lives. the officer sends down two pounds of sugar to give to the sick man. So two men are put in charge of the sugar to give this man A Spoonful in the morning at noon. And in the evening, then two men are put on those two men to watch them so they don't eat the (00:41:08) sugar. When Ken poor wall in the other Americans reach Japan, they were put to work unloading (00:41:14) coal true Winters. I went through two hunters and we never had heat in the barracks whenever I add warm water to wash my time that I left Philippines to that was in October or 43 until the spring of 44. I never washed a never took my clothes off (00:41:36) you're listening to a voice is of Minnesota interview with World War II Bataan Death March Survivor can pour wall on Minnesota Public Radio life is a prisoner of war was tenuous at best food was scarce disease was rampant beatings and executions continued for wall says he had to find a way to cope with what he was enduring. (00:41:57) Let me go back a little bit to the death march again, huh being angry at God. And later on I realized hey, I'm still living and immediate guy. So don't mess you glad you are paying attention. You are there. And then six months later, I'm sure. You're off to Europe again God, you're not paying attention here in the Philippines in your you're just letting things go to hell and and I said Jesus I got to make it on my own. And after a while, I would think hey, you're not making it on your own kin, don't you? Thank you Lord. Thank you for being there for me. So I think it's that kind of a relationship that brought me to. the final thing on that thing with God if I can say that way. I'm in I'm in Japan and and it's 1945 and and I have been clobbered in the back by you by rifle butts to the effect that I have damaged. I know I have I can I hurt and and this particular day my back muscle spasm and I can't walk or not very good. So when the work detail leaves I decided I'm going to go on sick call and I start walking into that building and I dropped to my knees because it kept walk. So then I crawl on my hands and knees. Until I can't do that anymore and my back muscles are crawling and crawling and crawling. And so then I pulled myself with my elbow is real I get to the door and I found on the door and I they come and pick me up and bring me inside and there's a doctor there from the British Army and Japanese Corbin. On this day. He happened to be wearing high boots hobnail boots know why I don't know but and as I lay on the floor with my muscle back my back muscles squirming and twitching and he's massaging me with his hobnail boots. And after about 5 minutes to this useless. Any guy that can act that good needs a day off deserves a day off. So I'm putting the Sick Bay. And after a few days, I'm recuperating. I'm feeling better and I'm the think about my plight and and I thought of all of the things that happened happened to me. I hadn't been shot. I haven't had bones broken. I haven't had I wouldn't beat been beat to a pulp or bayonetted. I've always managed to find a mouthful of rice tandem swallow of water and And I said God you you are here, aren't you? You've been here all the time. I said Thank you and Isis from now on I won't worry whether I die or live I said it's because you're pulling the strings in either way. I'm a winner. And that's what got me through the last. four months of personal (00:45:27) life one day in 1945 poor wall says the prisoners were not forced to go to work. They're Japanese captors appeared to be in disarray for while says all the Americans could pick up from the guards was there had been two big events (00:45:43) the Japanese commissioned officers disappear, then the noncoms disappeared. And we decided that hey the private don't know what to do if they don't get orders. So a hundred marched on the on the on the guardhouse and took the rifles away. And opened the gates and open all the all the doors and all the buildings in the place. By the way, we found out later that the two big things were there to of Tomic bombs. it went we found one meal of rice into and the storage house and when they broke into the headquarters office. They found a orders for our execution. And the means of the execution was left up to the to the to the camp Commander. His other orders were to make it complete. And leave no Trace. And leave no Trace. (00:46:46) The prisoners now had a new problem. No one but the Japanese knew where they were the Americans had to contact Allied Forces. The first attempt failed to prisoners emaciated and wearing little more than Rags were dispatched to Tokyo. Ken poor wall says they found US military police there and what followed was a remarkable reunions of sorts with another (00:47:08) Minnesotan. We're American soldiers will be when prisoners of War for three and a half years were to hell. Have you guys been So they took the men out to the Battleship, Missouri and were questioned and found to be truthful. And they were then turned over to Harold stassen who was Halls. He's right-hand man. And who was the officer in charge of evacuation of American personnel? And so he's a show me on the map where you came from. Look he says there's an airport nearby. He's let's go. They went to a aircraft carrier got three airplanes and flew up. Hey come into our camp standing in the doorway of a of a big bus. And I recognized him I recognized him as the governor of Minnesota. And I try to shout and I couldn't say anything. I tried to wave and I couldn't raise my arms. And that's you stood in that bus and looked around at the people standing in their Japanese g-strings and their buildings coming apart and the fires burning around the place with these pots on it and he says this is really no place for Americans to be a living is I'm going to find help (00:48:33) the next morning poor wall and others boarded a train for the trip. That would eventually bring them home. Harold stassen Tom paid to the Admiral in charge of the US Navy's Pacific forces went on to oversee the liberation of other Americans held by the Japanese by one count 230,000 American prisoners died poor wall and 150,000 others survived to post scripts. Jim was one of those left by the side of the road on the Eighth Day Bataan Death March poor wall. You'll recall was amazed at Jim's attitude that he said he'd find a way to survive (00:49:10) and I thought that was a strange statement to make for a man that that knew the odds against him were such that you're not going to get over him. But eight days later I end up in the barbed wire compound in San Fernando. And the second morning I am there. I wake up at sunrise and I ache all over so I roll to the other side to relieve the ache inside MBLAQ relying on. And I look at the eyes of Jim accomplish the guy we dropped into dish. Eyelashes Jim. What are you doing here? He says the same thing you are laying in the den the dirty. I just no no I said, how did you get here the same way you did. I walked every step of the way. Come on, Jim. I said, come on. I said what happened to allow you to walk. Well is this? Where I went into the ditch not for I put him but where he went in the ditch. There was a culvert about 4 feet of head. And he crawled in the culvert. Slept off his malaria attack and took a day rest and then the second day joined another group of Americans and they come by. (00:50:33) The second PostScript one day at a veteran's convention in 1985 poor wall learned the fate of the man with the appendicitis attack in the hold of the Japanese ship operated on and sewed up without anesthetic (00:50:46) and we sat at the table. The man that had the appendix out was sitting at the table with his wife and his son. I could hardly believe it. I can hardly believe it. But I said, how did you ever get out of that ship? I just I hardly got out of there in a 20-foot rope ladder and I struggle like crazy to get up as you didn't get up that ladder. No, he says I didn't come up the ladder. He said there was about a dozen of us that couldn't make the ladder so they lowered the cargo net and they lifted the some of the cargo net. When I said if you didn't work, you're on half rations in nagato where we working in the coal yards. I said, how did you manage that? He says they gave me a job is corpsman in the in the Sick Bay. She said and then what have you done since you came home from the war? He says I've been a corpsman for the VA Hospital colleague years. He live we live. (00:51:55) For years can pour wall declined to talk about his World War Two experiences. Then he met Iris Chang the author of the book the rape of Nanjing an account of Japan's military atrocities on China's Mainland during the war. She encouraged him to tell people his (00:52:11) experiences and and she convinced me that that if you don't do it the jobs aren't going to do it. And nobody else will do it and nobody else knows it. So if you don't do it, nobody else will and I talked with her to some length when she was in Minneapolis with her book and she convinced me. Yeah, good do it man (00:52:33) poor wall says he took Chang's advice, but he says he talks about his World War Two experiences sparingly. (00:52:39) If I do it occasionally fine, but if I do it too much and I started getting nervous started getting uptight and all other things to don't sleep at night and that sort of thing so that yeah, I have to limit the amount of time I spend thinking about it and I have noticed this that people that are fellows that have written books. And spent a year or a year and a half or more writing a book. They lose their balance. They lose their there. They're really their sense of direction. It gets too much to (00:53:14) carry. Roseville resident can pour wall one of the Americans who survived the Bataan Death March and three and a half years as a prisoner of the Japanese during World War Two Danielson, Minnesota Public Radio. Well that does it for our midday program today 57 years to the day that the Japanese forces surrendered bringing to an end World War Two by the way, if you missed part of our midday program today, if you'd like to hear this voices of Minnesota program again, we will be broadcasting this program at ten o'clock tonight here on Minnesota Public Radio rebroadcast at 10. And of course it along with all of our other programs will be available on our website, Minnesota Public Radio dot-org. We keep all of the programs on our website so you can log on and listen at your leisure. So again, I web address is Minnesota Public Radio dot-org. Tomorrow we're going to resume our meet the candidates series. We're hoping to talk with all of the major candidates before the November election from time to time not just once but periodically between now and November this week we've been talking with the gubernatorial candidates. Can Pentel Roger mole was in today Tim pawlenty. The Republican party's endorsed candidate will be joining us tomorrow at 11:00 o'clock always great opportunity to find a little bit more about the candidates where they stand on the issues. And of course your questions are encouraged. So get your questions ready and give us a call tomorrow at 11 o'clock Republican candidate for governor. Tim pawlenty Will Be Our Guests over the noon hour tomorrow. We're going to be rebroadcast a documentary from the first person speaking of Faith unit that got a lot of attention it deals with the appeal of fundamentalism religion. That's tomorrow at midday. Thanks for tuning in today. If Americans are concerned about their dwindling retirement portfolios. Why do they Keep on spending will find out on the next sound money Saturday morning at 10 and Sunday at 5 p.m. Right here on Minnesota Public Radio. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio Sunny Sky 77 degrees at Kenner wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul Senator partly sunny fairly Breezy through the afternoon could hit 85 Degrees yet today tonight 30% chance for showers and thunderstorms with a low in the mid-60s tomorrow a little cooler with a chance for rain high temperature tomorrow in the upper 70s.

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