(00:00:00) With news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Stephen John a group of insurance companies has failed in their Court did to block the demolition of the Farmland Foods plant damaged by fire last July Judge James, bro, Berg denied the insurers motion based on their lack of standing to intervene in the process eight insurance companies had asked the court to block demolition saying the pork processing facility in Albert Lea can be rebuilt City officials and farmland want the structure torn down to make way for something new to State lawmakers are working on legislation. That would keep the official governor who has a Governor's residence open Governor. Ventura has said he would close the Summit Avenue mansion and moved back to his Maple Grove Ranch at the end of April dfl Senators Dean Johnson and Richard Cohen say their plan is to amend the overall budget reconciliation Bill to allow the governor to move yet. Keep the building open Minnesota Department of Transportation officials are launching a new three-digit cell phone number 2 key help Travelers get news on road conditions and weather cellular phone users can dial 5 1 1 To get the information yesterday MnDOT announced what will be the biggest road construction season ever officials say this summer will see work on close to 300 projects around the state Ginny croson is a MnDOT travel information coordinator. She says the 511 service is part of a national plan. The idea is that you'll have one number to call not only in Minnesota but across the country to get information about what might be affecting your travel whether it's a road construction project or it's a blizzard in Minnesota. That's closing roads. What have you gross and says drivers will soon be able to also get traffic information partly partly to mostly cloudy skies Breezy today scattered rain and snow showers developing in the west a chance of a rain or snow shower in the East highs in the 40s to low 50s in the Twin Cities. It's sunny and 50 degrees. That's news. I'm Steven John programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Chiang Mai Tai featuring Thai Dishes created with the traditional balance of hot, sour salty and sweet flavors located in uptown. ins accepted 612827 1606 and six minutes now past 12 and this hour on midday as part of our voices of Minnesota interview series. We hear from three women who social activism defines their work. I'm all Yusuf is founder and director of the Somalian women's Association in Minneapolis sister Gabriel herbers has spent her life helping troubled women and Rabbi Marcia Zimmerman is the senior religious leader at her Minneapolis. Synagogue. Here's Minnesota public radio's Dan Olson. Census numbers show Minnesota's Somali immigrant population is one of the largest in the country the recent killing by Minneapolis Police of a mentally ill Somali man carrying a crowbar and a machete is criticized by some somalis as evidence of the Discrimination. They face as Africans and Muslims in this state. I'm all use of helped organize one of the demonstrations where people protest at the police action. However, even as some somalis criticized police for the shooting many of them say Minnesota is a good home. That's the view of Amal Yusuf who has been in Minnesota since 1996. She's the founder and president of the Somalian women's Association based in Minneapolis. The association helps Somali families find housing health care and other services. Use of says she works with many refugees who escaped Somalia only to end up in sprawling and sometimes Lawless refugee camps in Kenya where they waited for years before getting permission to go to another country. I talked with them all use of at her office in Minneapolis for those people who came through the refugee camps. What was life there? Like for them. (00:03:49) I think a lot of them had fear and have went through a lot. I've we have seen families from who have been raped women who have been raped at refugee camps by this by the Kenyan soldiers. We have seen families who have been tortured by the Kenyan police. I mean imagine someone who is in a refugee camp and they come to Nairobi Kenya because that's where the ins and the gva and the process in fact takes place for coming to the United States and to be there you have to be to live and remain That City for your process you have to be documented and and they're not documented to be in that area. So what happens they're vulnerable for these corrupted, you know government and police and they are capture because they don't have a so-called legal document to to remain in the city and then they have to bribe the police and a lot of them have been sharing us with stories when they arrested and and simply because even though they know the refugees the rested because I guess the police don't don't have money and resources and they're trying to Target the somalis so that they can you know get money from them (00:05:14) when people from Somalia arrived in Minnesota. Generally speaking. What kind of Welcome are they getting (00:05:19) comparing to other states? I think Minnesota has been a very welcoming State not at not only does it provide the services and the support but also the people of Minnesota Friendly, and I think that's one of the ways why many of somalis come and why Minnesota is very attractive to many of the somalis despite the weather and also another another reason why many of them are coming to Minnesota is having the friends. I mean when they heard, you know in a refugee camp or a neighboring Somalia, it's doing well in Minnesota, you know working going to school having housing where affordable or adequate housing what they can live, you know, and and one thing heard how that friend is doing well and that attracts more people to this state as well. (00:06:08) How soon do many of them find work almost right (00:06:11) away. I wouldn't say almost right away. I guess that varies based on based on skills, but I think that employment has really become very difficult since September 11th, and I know the economy is not doing well, but yet I think that You know, we are this body despite the economy situation. We are hardly impacted by by lack of employment opportunity. (00:06:41) What do you see happening are many of the somalis people from Somalia who arrived in Minnesota. Are they staying or are they moving on to other states spreading out around the (00:06:49) country? Yes, that's happening. And I think primarily the reasons why it's happening is for to one is for housing that are enough for the family or places. They can live and Minneapolis, you know seem to be overcrowded. So that is stretching people into the Suburban. We have an office in Eden Prairie. A lot of the women that I met we have we have helped them apply housing in that area because they were living in neighborhoods where they were beaten. They were wrapped safety was an issue some of the women that Working the night and catch the bus they were they were harassed and Rapture non Franklin and Chicago. So that that was one of the reason to why many of them had to move not only that but also, you know the large of the family and affordability and now it's much safer. I mean many of them can walk from their home to eat them for a shopping center went, you know, they're not afraid of anything. (00:07:55) However, white minnesotans adapting to the presence of people from Somalia (00:08:00) over time. It's getting better the more that people see and understand what I think is still there is a education Gap. I mean still you we see the either they stigma or stereotypes or you know, people questioning who really these people are and you know, and also since September 11th many Somali women have been targeted because of their dress And not only because of their race but because their dress is also symbol where they are easily identifiable and it still I think there is more education needs to happen and and we are working on creating educational materials that would help minnesotans. Not only white minnesotans, but all minnesotans who should understand about the dress codes and and I hope that you know, also the employers and would be more acceptance even though some have been trying to accommodate that because we have great workers in the community that are honest and hardworking and I would love to see those people being hired. (00:09:20) How are the children doing are they going right into school and most of them flourishing and learning the language quickly? (00:09:27) It depends on the age. I think some of them are going to schools and are able to master their language and skills easily, but it's still the first station is out there when I say that I mean the education Gap and and the placement of Ages versus education in the school system that is creating more frustration to the students and and also stigma. I mean, we I have seen children who are pulled out from classes and placed into special ed classes because they could not catch up with the other students and indeed they did not have disabilities, but The ages and the level they were place was not the right level for them because of the Gap that was out there and and my heart is with those mothers who are you know, telling us these horrendous stories about what's happening to their children, you know, some of them are having hard time even understanding why you know, the children are pulled out and said, you know, they need special ed. They have attention deficit disorder, you know, and so on and so on when that's not you know that it's the communication. It's the culture, you know, it's you know, you're dealing somebody who have not been in who have been, you know fleeing from country to Country and trying to get a basic life. And now you have the teachers that are taking, you know different approach in the school system and saying, you know your children have disability when they're doing fine. I guess that needs an immediate (00:11:15) attention about Yusuf founder and president of the Somalian women's Association use of is only 24 years old. However, she's been through a lot in her young life. She and the rest of her family fled Somalia in the early 1990s when the country's long-simmering Civil War exploded her father was a high level member of somalia's former government. Yusuf says, he was killed in the fighting 20 members of the family resettled in India. However, use of says conditions were not good. So at age 15 never having been apart from her family, I'm all use of set off alone for Paris where she would try locate a (00:11:53) cousin and when I came to France, you know, I had nobody other than myself. So I was about 15 years old. What did you do? It has been very difficult. First of all, when I arrived at the airport, I knew how to speak English, but then the French police did not talk to me and they give me hard time, you know, whatever saying it still says something French to me and I end up three hours at the airport. Finally, you know, they understood what I was saying, but still they were forcing me to speak French so they did let me into the country (00:12:30) you subset she was warned repeatedly by family members not to trust strangers and she followed the advice. However, she recalls in at least two instances strangers directed her to help people in France directed her to a train for the Netherlands where with directions from other strangers. She found her way to a United Nations refugee camp which would become her temporary home for several years when a mall use of came to the United States as a refugee. She arrived in New York City. Once again all alone. She was on her way to Washington DC to look for another relative still. Sting no one use of so she was helped by another stranger a bus rider who overheard her ask directions for a dangerous part of the city. (00:13:11) He said you're going to 44th Street by yourself dressed up like this with all of these facts and I said what's wrong with that is this you must be out of your mind, you know that is and I said, no, I don't know and he sees I'm gonna have to help you you girl you can't go there so he did escort me. I didn't know that's and this place is so dark to and I get the ticket he put me in this bus and made sure you know that the driver ensures that when when I get to DC, you know, he loves me. She she lets me know the driver was women (00:13:46) use of finally located relatives. They had moved to Minnesota. She joined them and because of her English proficiency found work in a hospital as a translator. I'm all use of says she's thankful for the treatment governments have given her and other refugees. It's part of the reason she Is she started the Somalian women's (00:14:04) Association? I have a great respect for countries that whole, you know accommodate for refugees, simply because of the the human behavior and Care strictest of people that they bring together and they deal with it. You know, they have people who have various mental issues and disabilities and behaviors and bringing that into one location and you know treating them is something that that changed completely my heart and my way of viewing the (00:14:35) world really, how did it (00:14:36) change I want to contribute to people which is why I've chosen to do this kind of work right now because of what I have seen and in that sense, it did change my way of viewing the world. (00:14:49) I'm all use of very nice talking with you. Thank you so much for your time. (00:14:53) Thank you very much to and I'm pleased to be able to share with you. My story. (00:15:00) I'm all Yusuf president of the Somalian women's Association based in Minneapolis. You're listening to voices of Minnesota on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Dan Olson later in the hour conversation with Rabbi Marcia Zimmerman from Temple Israel in (00:15:15) Minneapolis, (00:15:20) like a mall Yusuf 82 year old sister Gabriel herbers has spent most of her life helping people. She's counseled girls and women often labeled as society's outcasts. Her purse is a social worker who belongs to the sisters of the Good Shepherd. She's lived in different cities around the country but has invariably found her way back to Minnesota. I talked with her recently at her one-room apartment at the sisters of Good Shepherd Convent in North Oaks sister Gabriel herbers grew up on a farm near New Vienna, Iowa. Finishing High School in 1939. She made an uncommon career choice for a young woman of that era. (00:15:54) My mother said to me now. What are you going to major in? And I said, oh I'm going to I'm going to be a CPA. I'm going to be a certified public accountant when I finished she said, oh what I remember this is a long time and I said, yeah. Oh no, she said if that's what you're going to do. We're not going to pay for you to go through college. She didn't think much of the CPA is not one one little bit. So I said well in that case then I said, what do you want me to do and what do you sell you want me to study and she said I want you to take a whole Mac Oh I said forget it. (00:16:36) Why was she supposed you think to the CPA (00:16:38) idea? Well because girls don't do that kind of thing. She told me girls don't become CPAs. And I said, oh, yes, they do. So you stood up to her. Yes. This one's going to do it. Well it never did of course because I didn't get to College then you did not get to college. No, I wouldn't go I because when she said I had to take home economics I said, well that I'm just not going I'll do other things. This is one of your first acts of resistance was against your mother. Probably I never thought of it that way (00:17:13) but she knew you and I suppose this wasn't totally unexpected behavior. Is that right? I (00:17:17) don't know much but thinks you're surprised I was at adamant about it. So I did I joined the the group in town that did plays you know, so I would put on plays I had a good time. I went on dates every night, you know. One night. I came home. It was three o'clock in the morning and then suddenly I thought darted to my head and said what are you doing with your life? And I was suddenly sober and I said, oh, yeah, what am I doing? I'm 19 years old or whatever. It was it. My life is almost got there. I haven't decided what I'm going to do with it. Where do you suppose that thought came from that was all these Spirit (00:18:01) you think so, you're not making that you're not (00:18:04) know I think was God speaking to (00:18:06) me sister Gabriel says she remembers as a child being told about a Catholic order of nuns The Sisters of the Good Shepherd who's worked most closely resembled that of priests which she says is what she really wanted to be. So she joined the order at what was then called? The College of Saint Thomas took her vows and was trained as a social worker at the beginning. She worked with teenage girls who others called incorrigible judges sent them to residential facilities run by herbers (00:18:31) order. They had problems like it being encouraged able on being in beyond the control of the parents runaways from school runaways from home a lot of felonies, you know shoplifting and that kind of thing. These were tough Kids Tough. Yes. They had problems. Did you have to use a lot of frankly physical discipline? We never use physical discipline. How did you cope with these kids? Well, you had to be very creative. And what I learned was that if you truly love people they will respond to that love and that is really true. I remember when I was in Spokane one time. There's one girl was being remanded to the courts because she had she had tried she had to she drank and Lysol and scented with suicides always doing these awful things which no matter what we did. You know, she just would not be controlled but I was I she liked me a lot and I was not working in the in the class as they say at that time. So she would sit and talk to me and when she knew that she was being referred remanded back to the court. She said, how can you do this to me? She said I thought you were supposed to love me. No matter what I did and I said that's true. And we do love you though. But sometimes there's there comes the breaking point as I just think of all the things you have done and see how many times how long a person can take that as big and I could say that because I wasn't the one who had been on the receiving end of (00:20:05) it looking back on it. Do you think that this young woman who tried to kill herself or maybe some of the others you worked with were were clinically depressed or had (00:20:12) other rental? Yes, some of them did and some of them need a psychiatric care and if they were really bad we did refer him to a (00:20:18) psychiatrist. So there was (00:20:20) treatment hmm. It was treatment. (00:20:22) How many came out of it? Okay. (00:20:25) Well the majority the majority came out. Okay, they used to say 85% We're not recidivist. They made it on the first go around which is pretty good. (00:20:37) What did they need? What was the solution (00:20:39) the solution was they needed a firm. They needed as they would say tough love and they needed to be learned how to follow rules and respect the rules and know what the limit what limits there were in order to be successful. We had to provide motivation for them by talking to them and try to show them what is life all about and trying to get them to look at what they wanted from life. And once it would get them to say what they wanted from life then we had something to work with and we could keep feeding that back to them. (00:21:14) What kinds of homes had these kids come from. (00:21:17) Most of them are from vary from broken homes and very good homes with (00:21:22) problems. And so it was a combination of time the discipline the firmness that you gave them the great care the great love that you gave them and that worked for a (00:21:31) lot of them. It did some might not have made it at the very first go-around, but ultimately they made it and and they would come back later in life and say I made it I'm doing this. Made because of you because of the sisters of the Good (00:21:45) Shepherd a few years ago herbers and others made news as they took on the owners of st. Paul's sex businesses. They succeeded in closing down porno movie houses at Dale and University in st. Pauls Frogtown neighborhood. Then working with residents herbers tried to end the sex trade on the neighborhood's residential streets. She says she told the prostitutes their line of work was dangerous and wrong but that they could always come to her for friendship. (00:22:11) In fact, and I wasn't running any facility. I was I was living in a house on Charles Street and I was working with the people they are whatever they would need. They would come to me whatever they needed. I would work with them on that and then I worked with Bill Wilson to close the theaters and Elon University. These were the porno theater isn't right (00:22:34) you were living in that house and you were befriending among others you're providing Sanctuary for (00:22:38) prostitutes. I mean the prostitutes would come and see me right? I didn't exactly provide. Sanctuary for them. I don't believe but but I would help them and they knew that I would help them. (00:22:48) How did they know that how had you gotten to know them? (00:22:51) Well, I think there were there was a group a neighborhood group that was objecting to the prostitution and one night. We went out on the street and I they wanted to introduce me to some real prostitutes, you know, because I'd only heard about him. I hadn't seen any of those gills and I met here I remember right in the middle of University Avenue on the island. They introduced me to this prostitute who was all had just gotten herself all greased up and everything to raise to go out to on the street and they said the introducer and said, this is Sister Gabriel. I was really Kickin butt but she almost fell into the street and she got out of my sight as fast as she could all cheeses. I've never looked at. I've never seen a nun looking like this and I said, you don't have to worry. I'm not I'm not I'm not upset by the way you look. I don't I met several others after that. We would go out on the street and because there's one guy who was working on it. He thought that if we could just talk to them and that they would you know change. Well, I think that is true to a certain extent that was true, but they're needed something else, you know, there's one (00:24:04) prostitutes point in the conversation sister Gabriel names a woman. She's known for 17 years in just the past few months Harper says the woman has told her she's getting out of prostitution. (00:24:14) She always would call me. I mean, she she has maintained the contact with me. I haven't worked to keep the contact with her but she has maintained the contact with me whenever she would get into into jail. She would call me or she was somehow try to reach me and so I've maintained contact and there's last go-around I went to see her quite regularly it to jail because those after I came back here. And she said I think I'm going to quit now. (00:24:43) Why has she decided to make this decision? Did she tell you? (00:24:47) Well, she didn't and she's too proud to tell I think she felt that she was getting pretty old. I wouldn't she know she's close to 40. And that if I hurt for a prostitute that's getting old (00:25:06) and she resisted you at every turn in terms of your I assume (00:25:09) I never with was the prostitutes. I never attempted to tell them to change their lifestyle. I told him that their lifestyle was dangerous. I told him that eventually they would be killed and I told him that I would always be there friend, but I was not going to be their therapist or somebody who would tell them what they had to do, but they could always count on me as being their friend. (00:25:40) Why do you think she's kept up contact with you for so (00:25:43) long? Because I was her friend. There was another another time. I had another prostitute and she had decided that she was going to get out of prostitution and she hadn't met this man. They were going to set up housekeeping get married. And so she needed stuff. She needed sheets and I did everything so I had some I had a lot of sheets and pillowcases that I had begged borrowed or stolen from people. And and so I told her to come to my my apartment and come and get them and I remember I had them in my I had a bunch of my arms and she came up the stairs and she said put that down and please give me a hug. And that was the thing that she needed most and that's what she wanted. She was able to ask for it and they knew that I loved them and I knew that I cared about them in spite of what they did and then I was accepting them because they were who they were and not because of what they did or didn't do (00:26:41) were you nearly alone in that weren't there others who could be their friends (00:26:47) not very many not very many because most people couldn't tolerate that. I know priest who told me that I was aiding and abetting them by doing that and I said, oh no father. I'm (00:26:56) not your great care and compassion for these people. I very strongly suspect does not mean you suspend judgment about what they do with their (00:27:05) lives. No, I tell him I hate what they're doing and they know that But you see most people can't you is very hard for people to separate what the person does from who they are who they are is not necessarily what they do. The human being that they are human person that they are is one thing and the awful things that they do over here is another thing and you don't kill them because they do those awful (00:27:33) things. Mr. Gabriel herbers is frequently on the Marshall avenue bridge between Minneapolis and st. Paul on Wednesday afternoons where she and others protest the US sanctions against Iraq. She's protested at and been arrested for demonstrations at the school of the Americas the military training program in Georgia who students include Central American military personnel link to some of that Region's most brutal repression sister Gabriel says the wave of patriotism sweeping across the country these days is blinding Americans to problems in other countries (00:28:04) since the bombing of the Afghanistan. We have also added a children of Afghanistan to our list that we support and ask the bombing to stop it because we want to save the children. (00:28:18) I'm guessing that the protests are not getting as much sympathetic response these days after September 11th is perhaps when you (00:28:26) started I think that's very true. I still feel that the people who drive by on the bridge. There are very many. I think there's just as many supporters now as they have been however, the general attitude of the public is that this is not American, we're not being patriotic. I also believe that we should spend less time being patriotic. And think more about the world that we're living in and maybe instead of having a u.s. The stars and stripes. We need to have a world flag that symbolizes all the people of the world and to symbolize our Unity as one world because that's where we're coming too. And that's what we have. Well, I think we have come to that. What do we do here in pinches on them? What they do in pages on us. We need to have some symbol to say that we are one rather than to divide us and I think right now they Stars and Stripes divide us especially with the attitude that we have about him at this time (00:29:31) Stars and Stripes divide us. How do you think (00:29:34) that we are the good people we are the ones are in control and what we do is right and what everybody else does is wrong and when we think of World Trade Center going down that went down for a reason and most of that can be traced back to our Behavior toward the different countries that are We say are (00:29:54) involved instead of the reason that it was the act of a person some people call a madman and his and his mad (00:30:02) problem. But he made me mad. I just never really nothing mad about him. He's just trying to salvage his own, you know to try to get some justice somehow and that and it's the same as it did with the prostitutes, you know, if you have to love the people I had to give them an opportunity to grow and to be who they are instead of saying, you know, all that stuff you're doing is wrong, you know and get out of here you but so you're so allow them to be and we have to do the same way with with the countries. We have to allow them to be in to grow and help them to grow and not Milk them of all the goods that they have (00:30:42) 82 year old sister Gabriel herbers vision is fading she reads with the aid of a video camera which enlarges words and puts them on a huge television set. There are several boxes in the corner of her single room apartment at the sisters of the Good Shepherd headquarters in North Oaks. The boxes are filled with letters from women. She's helped over the years. (00:31:02) I always try to answer their letters but not always successful in doing that. (00:31:06) Well, it would be nice in the best of all worlds. I supposed to be able to respond the letter to the letters. Maybe they just needed to write (00:31:11) them. I I guess that's true but it's no fun to write a letter net not hear them from the person to whom you're written. There's probably a book in those (00:31:20) letters how their lives are (00:31:22) better. Yes, and some of them are or how they created a new problems now that they're married and have children of their own then they expect me to solve those problems for their children. (00:31:35) Sister Gabriel herbers. Thank you so much for talking with (00:31:38) me. Thank you Dad. I just this has been a wonderful. (00:31:45) Mr. Gabriel herbers has been a nun with the sisters of the Good Shepherd for 62 years. You're listening to voices of Minnesota on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Danielson. Rabbi Marcia Zimmerman is one of only a relative handful of women in this country who lead large synagogues last year. She was elected senior Rabbi at Temple Israel in Minneapolis the first perform Judaism woman rap, I was ordained in 1972. The first woman senior Rabbi was elected leader of a synagogue shortly after that about 40% of this country's Jews are reformed many other Jews do not accept women as religious leaders Marcia Zimmerman grew up in a suburb of st. Louis Missouri. She talked with Minnesota public radio's Krista Tippett about her decision to become a rabbi. My father was a scientist and so he really believed until more recently in his older years, but he always wanted things to be defined to be explained to be proven and religion doesn't do that where my mother was much more of sort of a religious person early on and upheld the traditions. And the things that didn't always make sense. We're still very important to her and she taught them to all of us. So we had a sort of a balance but we did grow up in reform congregation and that's the tradition in which I have become a rabbi and it has always been a very strong Foundation of who I am. (00:33:21) So you went to Macalester and tell me tell me about the path that took you into studying to become a rabbi (00:33:30) when I was at Macalester was in the late 70s. The first woman was ordained in 1972, but between 72 and 77 when I first met a woman who was enrolled in rabbinical school that there were only a handful of women. So to have met a woman who is either in rabbinical school or ordained was very unusual a woman came to the University of Minnesota and She came and she spoke to us at their Hebrew house, which we had on campus which sort of an offshoot of the University Hillel system. And I she just had to be there. She didn't have to say a word and I was like, this is exactly what I want to do just physically seeing a woman who was a rabbit has and and you know, and I remember asking her a question about her classes. What are you studying, you know, very excited and enthusiastic. You know, she just sort of had a typical response of somebody who's in the midst of studies, you know, well this professor is kind of, you know, not really a wonderful professor and she had more critiques but it didn't matter to me it was that I was talking to somebody who actually had made the step to be in rabbinical school was just so exciting to me. And (00:34:51) so did you felt excited about Mala rabbis and your earlier life? No really. That was really that fact (00:34:58) of it really? It was this opportunity. I had never seen a female Rabbi and well I had teachers who were male rabbis and rabbis who were important to our family. There wasn't the same kind of touching of my soul that there was with this woman. What did your family think when (00:35:16) you first started talking to them about this? (00:35:19) I got very involved in the feminist movement and I was looked at but my family is a little strange so they thought this was just a continuation of being a feminist because they themselves had never met a female Rabbi before either that was interesting. I tell the story often about my father answering the phone right after I had met this woman who is in rabbinical school. I called my family said Dad. I just met this female rabbinical student and he said you don't want to do that and I said from that day on it was the journey It said yeah, but through the years they have really supported me and love the fact that my journey has brought me to the place that I am today is the senior Rabbi of Temple Israel. (00:36:12) So you were named senior Rabbi at Temple Israel on July 1st, 2001 and that's two months before in some sense the world changed in this (00:36:22) country. (00:36:25) And you know, I think in in the press in terms of observing the religious phenomena around September 11th, we focused a lot on Church attendance and I would really like to hear from your perspective as a rabbi and a large Jewish synagogue congregation. What changed what are the effects you continue to feel? (00:36:46) It is interesting because as the Jewish community and because so much of the terrorism was centered in the Middle East, you know, we heightened security for the high holidays, which was very very soon after September 11th. It was the following week. There was a real fear that we potentially could be the target especially in the early days of the terrorist attack. We didn't know who was responsible exactly what was happening. It wasn't totally clear who what and where was responsible and in the early days Israel definitely was held up as a possible reason for the attack. So we had fear mixed in personal fear mixed in with kind of a national fear (00:37:37) and that is a huge difference because I think Christians went to their churches and that felt like a safe (00:37:42) place like a safe place. Okay and in the days early First days we were definitely wanted to do some kind of religious service and without much knowledge. We turn to our downtown churches to gather there in the church rather than at Temple in order to have Interfaith Services. Temple was not going to be the place at the top of the list at first because we didn't want to bring anybody into an unsafe place. So that is very different and I'm not sure that has come out so clearly I haven't read much about that kind of change (00:38:22) so has September 11th in some way made some changes to your role as a rabbi. Are there certain things that are more important now than they were before, (00:38:33) you know, I think that with all the violence that has been happening in Israel and we are very focused on the Mideast and we always are what Different actually is that the whole world is now focused there too. And I found that so interesting because so many of the people in my congregation would come up and say Rabbi people are asking me questions about the Middle East and I don't know all the answers to them. You know, while we always care about Israel. We were not experts in the Middle East and just looking at Tom Friedman who has become the it has always been I mean, I've kept up with Tom Friedman for years and years and years, but he has become the voice because he is an expert and to turn to people who are Jewish who are you know co-workers and ask the questions you would ask a Tom Friedman, you know, put that person into a place of really thinking about their sense of Israel and the Middle East you're listening to a voices of Minnesota conversation with Rabbi Marcia Zimmerman on Minnesota Public Radio. Zimmerman has been at Temple Israel in Minneapolis for 14 years. She was elected senior Rabbi last year one of relatively few women reform rabbis to lead a large synagogue. Here's the rest of her conversation with Minnesota public radio's Krista Tippett. So, you know what I'd really like to ask you is (00:40:01) how you as a rabbi in as a person of faith and just speaking for yourself. You know, how you view that tragedy that is unfolding there. Now that Terror through your faith. (00:40:16) Well, it's a very personal reality. I mean, my husband's first cousins are there and every time there's an attack we are right at the telephone or email. So for much of the Jewish Community including myself, we have family there. It's not something distant at all, but very present in our lives. So I think that's the first place to begin is with the personal and I was in Israel. Two years ago February and it was such a hopeful time. It was right before the second wave of this intifada and it was so exciting not without trepidation and fear and concern but Israel was a place that was just the sky was the limit everybody felt like piece had to happen. They were not happy about what would happen to Jerusalem. But when you ask the question the poles would you give part of Jerusalem away they'd say no but said if Jerusalem was at the center of the peace process, would it be a negotiable item? Everybody said yes, you know it was hard. So it was how you phrased the question and so it was such a wonderful time Camp David Gathering and then the falling apart a year ago High holidays right before Rosh Hashanah. and it's just been demoralizing really from that time. We've seen just the escalation of violence like never before and it's been very disheartening and very upsetting and what we have to do is always hold out that piece is the goal and we have to get there. Now there have been some encouraging things along the way and I hope that you know not to get into a political discussion. Although that is where you go. When you look at Israel both sides definitely need to look at themselves. It was disappointing for me that Arafat wasn't the leader that I thought he was and he could be he wasn't but I don't you know, that's who they're putting forth. And so we're going to have to deal on some level even though there are some second level people who are really good and Understand the peace process very different and are speaking with Israelis. It's wonderful. The settlements are a problem. There's no question and we have to look at that from Israeli perspective. It's not helpful to have resources go to one part of a community and right next door no resources at all. And we have to look at that. But suicide bombing has no excuse killing innocent people has no excuse and we need to go forward holding those responsible and moving on to peace. (00:43:28) So again as a rabbi, how do you experience your role? What do you experience your role to be now with that Spectre in everyone's mind and your congregation surely and again you through the lens of Faith. How do you sort of lead people? this time as American Jews (00:43:49) Well, I think that you both recognize the frustration and the fears and you have to move ahead I'm taking a group of people to Israel June 20th through the 30th. That's how I lead. I lead because I feel a responsibility to Israel. I feel a responsibility as an American Jew to go there and be with them in this most difficult time and there are people in my congregation who are going with me. And so those are the ways that I lead and you speak about it. So often we every single Gathering of prayer that we have which is daily. We recognize the torn Middle East and pray for peace every single day. That's how we lead and it's by keeping those Communications open and by staying ahead of the curve, you know, if I only read one press that wouldn't be enough. If my job is to go beyond and so my husband and I every night before we go to bed. We go on the internet and read the Israeli, press we read the Jerusalem Post. We read the foreword that's my job to is to be well informed so that I can speak in articulate a position with accurate information, you know, we started out (00:45:13) talking about your family and your upbringing and your grandparents and and for them for for Jews of that generation anti-Semitism in some form was was a huge issue. I wonder for for your generation and the young people who you are raising in your congregation, you know, what would you name as as challenges of Jewish identity and maybe it's related to September 11th to (00:45:40) It is it's interesting. I think that anti-Semitism is a reality but how much of a reality and previous generations have turned to it as a way of saying this is the way I have my identity. It's because people hate me well, that's not a great way to have an identity. If you want to have something that's more powerful and internal but anti-Semitism is a reality out there. There's no question and that was the fear the initial fear was because it's real the initial fear of September September 11th, because it's real. And I don't separate anti-zionism and anti-israel from anti-semitic semitism. So, you know, I think too many people have tried to make that differentiation. I don't doesn't mean you can't have a critique of Israel and its government. I'm not saying that if you don't believe in a Jewish State you really in my mind are very connected to that anti-Semitism. But you know, we have a simulation to in this country. It's a great deal of assimilation. So that's almost the antidote not the antidote but the antithesis of anti-Semitism is that we can pass so easily that we choose to pass and that's another danger in our community. We really are and minority community. And so the our continuity is at stake and assimilation is Huge risk to that knowledge is another place where Jews they're knowledgeable about many other things. They've taken the idea of Education, which is a Jewish value to a remarkable place in many many disciplines. But as far as Judaism is concerned they have very little knowledge. And so that's a part that needs to be elevated. So those are the things that that I myself see as real concerns for our community and as the teacher the (00:47:57) rabbi and the teacher is (00:47:59) the rabbi my job is to instill pride and to instill knowledge and to instill hope that although we have always been a small group of people that we have had a large effect on the world and that we should feel that pride and we have to continue that tradition. It doesn't just happen by itself. It takes a real real hard work and loyalty it takes discipline and it takes a connection to a spiritual understanding of God to the words of our sacred text of Torah and to the community that has a commanding voice. We have a responsibility to the Jewish Community as well as the wider Community. (00:48:43) But also what I hear is that tending these Traditions then strengthens the contribution the very particular contribution that that Judaism has to make as we all move forward and to all of these complex (00:48:57) issues. Well again, I think that we we live in a world that says your particular differences are good. We're not in the Melting Pot anymore, which I am very glad. I'm not living in the time of the Melting Pot and that we see ourselves as communities who all I have something to give now that's easier said than done. It's very difficult to do the work of interfaith relationships of helping. Each of us understand where we are where we have come from and we have to find a way of healing past hurts. The Holocaust is a typical example of that and moving forward and I think that it takes a lot of work it takes some insightful people. It takes Candor between people even sometimes where it's difficult and hurtful. (00:49:53) I want to ask you one more question before I finish I think was it your father-in-law was a holocaust Survivor. Yes, both my in-laws both of your in-laws so still for your generation. The Holocaust is a is a really present reality that is being passed down. But and yet we must be sort of at it at a turning point where there will be new generations. I mean for your children, it won't be quite as real. As close how do you think that changes Jewish identity sort of as we move into the twenty twenty first century. (00:50:28) Well, I you know, I sort of thank God every day that my children have had the stories and the connection of their grandparents because they really do understand the Holocaust and connect with it and it's very present in their lives. It's quite interesting to me. How is that a blessing? It's a blessing because the generation of survivors are dying and soon we won't be able to communicate that historical reality in the same way. And I think that's what I hear under. Your question is once all the survivors are gone. How do we communicate memory? You can't in the same way if it wasn't your own experience. So how do we teach that and that for me goes back to the Exodus story? It hard people have always had the experience of either slavery or anti-Semitism, but we don't dwell there as a community. We dwell at The Liberation at the point where we have survived and our survival is of the element. That's absolutely philosophically theologically the basis of who we are as a people and for the following Generations who won't have the experience of survivors. It's going to be more difficult your grandchildren and soul my grandchildren. How are they going to feel about Judaism? How are they going to have that strength to understand what has happened? And that is a question that is unanswered at this point, but it's interesting because I grew up not knowing any survivors. I actually, you know, my parents new survivors, but I never heard the stories in the first. 10 to 20 years. No one was telling their stories like they are today. It was too painful but somehow it was communicated to me how important that event was and how not only chilling it was in our history, but how you must take it on as your own identity. So it is the ethos of our kind of our community and it always has been because it goes back to a biblical story where we were slaves. But what are we concentrating on around the Seder table for Passover? We're talking about our Liberation. We're talking about finding the freedom not only the physical freedom, but ultimately the spiritual freedom of responding and receiving Torah at Sinai. So, you know, it's in our blood whether we've spoken to somebody directly or not. That is the basis of who we are because Judaism is a peoplehood to it is not only a Jim but we experience everything ourselves. And again what the Seder says with the hagaddah says it says, you know, you can't just tell the story you've got to experience the story. You've got to eat matzah for seven days because that's what was eaten in the desert. You have to have bitter herbs to experience the bitterness of slavery. We experience everything they don't just talk about it. And that for me is the power of (00:53:45) Judaism (00:53:50) Marcia Zimmerman senior Rabbi at Temple Israel in Minneapolis. She talked with Minnesota public radio's Krista Tippett. You've been listening to voices of Minnesota on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Dan Olsen. And if you missed part of our program with Marcia Zimmerman sister Gabriel herbers and Almo Yusuf, you can hear it again tonight at nine o'clock during the midday rebroadcast programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by the Saint Paul chamber orchestra welcoming Peter sik lie to the Ordway Wednesday April 3rd for a one-time performance of PDQ Bach Originals limited tickets available at the SP co.org or it's 651291 11:44 and to hear any of our midday broadcast from the past go to Minnesota Public Radio dot org and follow the links for Midday in the news section of the website. Also, you might want to check out the your voice feature at Minnesota Public Radio dot-org. Well, that'll do it for midday today. Midday is produced by Sarah Mayer Rob Schmidt's is the assistant producer our engineer today was Clifford Bentley. I'm Mike Mulcahy have a good Easter. Gary eichten will be back on Monday. (00:55:11) On the next old things considered 3,000 Fingerhut employees are adjusting to the news that they'll be out of work by the end of next week. We'll have that story on the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio. KN o WF M 91.1 (00:55:28) you're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. Clear skies 50 degrees at knoo wfm 91.1 Minneapolis st. Paul. It'll be a chance of some showers has