(00:00:00) With news from Minnesota Public Radio, I'm Steven John Minnesota's new US attorney. Tom. Heffel finger is pledging help in the battle against terrorism. The US attorney's office already prosecutes gun and Drug offenses and white collar crime. Heffel finger says his office must now do more with the same (00:00:15) resources mention of potential future terroristic acts as well as holding those accountable for the September 11th incident is not instead of but in addition to those things which we have traditionally (00:00:28) done Ethel finger was sworn in yesterday as us attorney for Minnesota. He held that same post previously from mid-1991 293 under former President George Bush former green party presidential candidate. Ralph Nader's says the airline industry Aid package approved by Congress may be too generous nature says Congress acted too quickly to approve a 15 billion dollar package of loan guarantees and direct Aid without taking a closer look at the (00:00:52) problem. They are basically in some ways using this disaster as a way to get Federal help. For economic problems that they were experiencing before the attack in New York and (00:01:06) Washington Nader is in Morehead today speaking at a world affairs Symposium at Concordia College. He will speak in Minneapolis this evening retailers at the Minneapolis. St. Paul International Airport. Say sales have dropped between 40 and 50 percent since the terror attacks a spokesman for the firm that manages specialty shops at the airport says new security restrictions have eliminated some 10% of their customer base airport officials have postponed indefinitely an expansion that would have added 10 new shops and to restaurants Sunny highs from 55 to 65 Statewide this afternoon tonight lows in the mid 30s to low 40s Duluth is 55° Rochester 52 in the Twin Cities. It's 53 that's news from Minnesota Public Radio. Programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Berger design and construction of Brainerd Lakes area and North Central Minnesota custom designer and Builder dedicated to precision and service for more than a quarter of a century on the web at ber cagr.com. It's six minutes now past 12. And good afternoon. Welcome back to midday and Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us the war on terrorism troop build-up continues largely out of sight the Pentagon has deployed ships and planes and presumably some ground troops to the Persian Gulf region to prepare for possible military action against those deemed responsible for the September 11th terrorist attack on America while the Pentagon has been very tight-lipped about its War plans military experts say that any action in Afghanistan if there's going to be any will likely begin soon because the weather will soon make military operations very very difficult. There are already unconcerned reports. In fact that British Commandos Gathering intelligence inside Afghanistan have exchanged gunfire with Taliban forces the military campaign in that part of the world if there is a military campaign will largely be fought as usual by younger Americans but today on. Midday, we're going to focus on a call for older Americans To do their part in the war. Well known Twin Cities business executive and Democratic party activist Vance. Opperman says that a military-style draft should be established to help protect the American Homeland Strawberry Moon who is the co-host of the public affairs program face-to-face on Twin Cities public television outlined his proposal in a commentary that was published in Sunday's Star Tribune. He's joined us here in the studio today to discuss his idea. And as always we invite you to join our conversation. Of course, we'll keep you posted on any news developments about the war if they occur the sour, but in the meantime the question before the house is whether older Americans should be drafted for Homeland defense. We've actually give us a call at six five. One two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free, and that number is 1-800-222-8477 6,000 or 1-800 to for to to 828 and Cybermen. Thanks for coming in today. Well, thank you, Gary. Preciate being here. Now. First of all, are you serious about this or is this a nice tongue-in-cheek shot at Old-Timers sending off young people to do their fighting for them? Oh, I don't think this is a tongue-in-cheek a humorous at all. I think the world changed on September 11. I think the price of citizenship in a free Society went up and I think that price ought to be paid by everyone in our society. What kind of reaction have you received? Well, I have received hundreds of emails and voicemails 99% or more are wildly in favor. They know they're there are plenty of things we can do. This is a war being fought for the first time on American soil. There are an infinite number of Terror possible terrorist targets. There's a tremendous need for eyes and ears or people being alert. We think that ought to be structured. We think everyone should share in their burden because everyone is sharing in that burden whether or not they know it and I think that that is a way that everyone can can pay the price of citizenship. And be ever Vigilant. Well, let's let me March down a series of kind of basic facts about what you're what you're thinking here. So people have a better idea who would be eligible to be drafted. Well, let me first of all say that I believe strongly there should be a military response outside of this country and I leave that to those who that experience in the background. I don't certainly require that they tell us those details in advance. This is not instead of that or in place of that or in derogation of that. This is about defending the assets and the infrastructure in this country, which have been the targets of this War. I believe that people were 45 should be required to serve somewhat like the National Guard weekends a couple days a week or a couple days a month depending on the need that we ought to be forced that alerts others. I keep your eyes and ears open that is present around for example water treatment plants electric generating plant spy. Lines things of that kind ports barges grain elevators things that could be the subject of terrorist attack and that's and so I would basically in terms of Homeland defense. I think that part of the function should be people over 45, but again, there will certainly be other ways which America protects itself and those obviously will be served in other military ways. You could people who are I don't know 30 to 45 would they be eligible as well? Well, I don't know that first of all, I wanted to see some thinking outside the box. This is a new kind of War this I think will stretch and challenged all of the assumptions. We have as a free people. I don't know that it's set in concrete. I don't have the power to do that probably adds a good thing. I don't have the power to make laws or call up troops and that's very definitely a good thing. But I do think that it is unfair to say. Back and say well I'm going to do my bit by living my life just as though nothing has happened and those people who are 20 will be called up and sent off to some foreign land. There is more to be done to protect our Liberty than that and particularly there is more to be done in this country since we are now the Target now you are saying the the commitment would be somewhat similar to serving in the guard or the reserves. How long would somebody be subject to that draft? How long would they serve once they got drafted with like 10 years or two years or what's your vision there? Well again Gary I want to see this this disgust me. The principal ideas are that all citizens have a duty all citizens should pay the price all of us would be vigilant in a vigilance should be organized and effective in my own view of that and I have no experience in these matters, which I'm sure is painfully evident by now. I would assume a two or three-year kind of commitment man and women absolutely people with Absolutely. Everybody would be would be drafted. Would there be any deferments exemptions and like that? Oh, I am sure that as this got worked out in a way that was effective. There would have to be some exemptions are a variety of different human conditions. But you know, I had one person called me up to say would take a great deal of training and my response to that was the people that guard a lot of the buildings. I walk in out of the people who guarded the airport security before certainly before September 11. I think I could achieve that level of training pretty quickly. There are many people who have informed. I had an 80 year old World War Two vet called me up to say that he walks a number of miles every day at the mall he could just as easily walk and have a walkie-talkie and keep his eyes and ears open. I think that all of us with very little exception can shoulder this burden and I think it is a burden, but I think it's one that ought to be freely paid and should be paid by everyone speaking of pay to you would you see These people getting paid for their time or would this be purely voluntary a compulsory voluntary operation? Well, I don't think that it'd all be paid very much. I think it's the duty of citizens and the price will be extracted one way or the other 6,000 people already paid their price. The perhaps expenses can be covered there has to be training periods that certainly should be covered but this is not a way in which people are going to augment their income a great deal. This is the price you pay for living in a free society and protecting the basic infrastructure of this country one other question. I don't get to The Listener calls hear about this in terms of how this might work. Would you see the people who are drafted going off to a boot camp of sorts to get in some minimal physical condition, but I think more importantly get everybody on the same page in terms of their their commitment to service and rest or would you just Kind of one day you'd be in the service here M naught again as you're exposing. I have no experience or background in these matters. I don't know what makes sense from a military or police point of view. I certainly this ought to be something that's useful and helpful not something that takes away from necessary efforts in other spheres of our military and police activity. My sense of it is that you could easily accomplish the level of because these are not people I see he's carrying firearms. You can easily achieve a level of training on weekends in school gymnasiums, perhaps Church basements, if available recreation centers and the minimum kind of training in terms of using telecommunication for armed backup in terms of elements of Patrol showing up and then being taken somewhere how to make reports. Those are things that I think can be accomplished in a fairly short period of time now whether more training would be required or some group To get more training I would leave it to the professionals. But but the basic Point again, is that as Citizens? We have a duty and a citizen's we have a price and I think most Americans would freely pay it. I guess I do have one more question before we get to our listener calls. Do you see this primarily as a symbolic gesture whereby everybody is pitching in and doing their part or do you see this primarily as a very pragmatic response to potential terrorist threats. Well, I see it as both but I see it as a pragmatic response. There are an in anybody can make their own list of a potential terrorist targets and probably infinite we hear of people trying to do crop-dusting we hear of possible interference of food supply down the Mississippi River there a variety of other people that have Pacific ated about possible terrorist targets, but certainly it doesn't take a genius to know that you could have tremendous disruption of a society of something happened to our electric generation capability or water treatment. Our grain elevators are rare. Our barges Regional airports. There's a variety of targets which cannot be in are not presently guarded particularly. Well because a man power is not available. So I see this as a pragmatic response, but I also see it as a way in which we remind ourselves on a constant basis. It's fine to go to to memorial events and they ought to be done particularly to honor those who have died. It's find a way flags and that ought to be done that serves a function but there should be more than that that disappears after a while. There should be more than that. We should never be complacent again this requires vigilance and that vigilance means we should be reminded of that in a way that impacts our daily lives. So to some degree it is also symbolic, but it is primarily a pragmatic response and I would look to those who are experts in the field to know how best to make this effective and pragmatic Vance Opperman who is the president and CEO of key investment Incorporated has joined us this hour. Mr. Obermann as come up with an idea of suggesting that Older Americans middle-aged Americans ought to be drafted to help in the Homeland defense of America. Let me give you the phone number here don't call right now though. All of our lines are busy. And so you'll just get frustrated trying a couple of minutes because we'd like to get your question on its 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight. And again, there's a couple minutes here to clear some lines and then we get you on let's see James your first go ahead, please. (00:13:36) Yes. I'm a retired 29-year military veteran only 56 years old, but with the people that I hang around with a lot of us, you know are retired or have quit the military or been forced out since the Iron Curtain fell in the cold War's over. We're all we're all ready to go. It's this is something that's probably unprecedented the fact that the United States got hit and most of the people in my era of the Vietnam and the Saudi era, you know, We never really got our feet wet for all the training we got and we're still ready to go. Even though we are 56 we could do it. The irr is sitting there a lot of retired people a lot of people forced into retirement because of the Cold War ending. I believe that there's plenty of resource there on these people are all trained. They're trained with weapons or they've got security clearances. They've got everything (00:14:31) necessary for you with all that training. Would you be satisfied though in a more severe kind of a semi civilian role monitoring what events at a power plant as opposed to something more active. (00:14:45) I believe a lot of us would probably want something a little more active. But hey, I know a guy who's retired for you know, he's over 65 a former Marine he wants to he wants a part of this he's doing nothing but sitting home right now, he's totally retired. I believe he would like something like that. All right. Thanks James. (00:15:04) Thanks James. And you know, I think citizens do have this Duty and I and it's frustrating not to be Do more and er question, please? (00:15:12) Yeah, I don't really, you know, totally agree with this idea of drafting people over 45 to whatever 65 whatever you want to put your limit at first. We're gonna have to re-enact a draft if you want to do that use the CEO's that are going to pop up you're going to have enough of those let them walk around power plants all night long I could care less. I'm an undead I'm a combat vet been there done that. (00:15:34) Can I respond to their for a minute to buy seals me conscientious objectors? Yeah. Go ahead. Well, you know during during most War World War II, for example after that was upheld by the Supreme Court, you have a point conscientious objectors can do noncombatant Duty in this would certainly (00:15:48) qualify. Whatever happened to the civil defense wasn't a to totally volunteer organization. Can we have that (00:15:54) again? I think that would be a certainly that could be useful (00:15:59) running jumping in and trying to you know, just the idea of you say draft in its flash point in people's heads and they're not going to go for it. (00:16:05) Why is that a Flashpoint people don't want to serve let someone else do it? (00:16:10) You tell me. (00:16:11) Well, that's my concern. I heard one of the radio talk show host suggests that while we all have keep this all voluntary because we increase the amount of money. We can just get enough people do it. We just pay for it and I frankly disagree with that. I think the whole country is under attack. I think all citizens should have a duty and I think they all discharge it one way or another you think the draft should be reinstituted for younger people as well. The old traditional style draft that used to be used to man the military I do. What do you think? We lost if anything when we dropped the draft, I mean it was a point of bitter bitter contention in this Society. Well it was and I there may be the nature of that kind of service may change from the idea generally was to have some form of national service has a duty of citizenship. Although that may not be always as a combatant because frankly in better times you may not have a lot of Wars to participate in I think what was lost and I think We have to re-examine that and I hope this brings that discussion to the for I think what was lost was the idea that you do owe something and it's not something that can be easily discharged. It's not something that can be discharged by paying more taxes. It is not something that can be discharged by paying somebody else to do your duty. It is something you have to yourself discharged. It's a little bit the reason why in many white collar crimes, we now have criminal sentences. They require incarceration not just the payment of a fine because when you pay with time you pay in a way that is common to all people and I think there ought to be duties that citizens have to discharge and they have to do it themselves callers on the line from Fred Lee Geary our (00:17:53) question. Well gentlemen, James your previous caller stole a lot of guys going to save it. I guess I'm a little surprised. It's taken this long for for the subject to come up because some of us Vietnam veterans out. They're out here. You know, we we survive because we were good at what we did. Okay age to me in my way of thinking has very little or nothing to do with it. If the United States is going to attack somebody it seems to me that they should take the the experienced ones that people who have been there and done it and done it. Right. I mean they these young guys, you know, they don't have the street smarts. They don't have the experiences experiences everything. There's a number of us Vietnam veterans who would who would love to do this and you guys are talking about money early on you know, it's not about money it it's shouldn't be about money now and wasn't about money when when we were in Vietnam and (00:19:00) while setting setting aside the oh, I don't know what you call the the traditional military activity involved in responding this terrorist attack. What about this concept of reinstituting the draft for older people for Homeland defense that is to say that you and folks like yourself wouldn't be out humping around in the hills of Afghanistan, but you would be guarding the NSP plan, but that be it's that be a good idea to you. (00:19:28) Well, if they're I guess it's it would be okay, although I think a lot of us are still in going backwards. James said a lot of us are still in all 50 ish. We can we can pound the upon the bushes with the best of them out there. We would I think a lot of us would like a more active role in guarding Monticello or / Island, (00:19:50) but let me let me ask you a question. This is Vince offer. Let me ask you a question that that's fine. And I think that may be a duty that you may wish to fulfill and and Godspeed but what about is it really fair for society to sit back and say a smaller and smaller number of people should put their lives on the line and put themselves. In Jeopardy and the rest of us make absolutely no sacrifice at all. Is that really fair? And what kind of what kind of view of our freedoms does that (00:20:18) generate? Well, it's a good question. (00:20:23) In other words. You've done your job Gary about everybody else who hasn't pulled our part of the load yet. And there are jobs to be done in their here in this country. (00:20:31) Right? Exactly. I see your point. However to me I guess I'm a common-sense guy. It's not who has done their partner who hasn't done their part. It's don't let's the old the old saying let's not fix it if it's not broke. I mean, let's take let's take the experience. We got in and and and put it to work once again, I mean instead of starting over with with an unproven commodity. All right. Thanks Gary. Sure. Thank you. (00:21:02) Appreciate it Vance Opperman if you had a number of top Executives like yourself spending a fair number of hours each month guarding that Monticello plan wouldn't that over time hurt? One of the one of the real strengths of America that is to say the economy. I mean, I would think it would be difficult over time for businesses to continue to operate at Peak efficiency when some of their key personnel aren't in the office doing the things they're supposed to be doing instead. They're out marching around the power plant. Well, I am bothered by the fact that some people think our economy and our society ought to be stratified for those who make a great deal of money those that are a warrior class those people locked into economic situation that is minimum wage or barely above. I think it would be a good thing for people of varied backgrounds economic backgrounds as you suggest ethnic backgrounds gender backgrounds to be together in a common cause for Duty a citizenship. I think that would be a good thing. I think that would strengthen our country. I think that would strengthen our resolve. I think that would allow us to protect targets that are currently unprotected whether or not that means that an executive Doesn't get his are two golf game or the things that he might otherwise do for two nights a week and I was speaking to myself here. I'm not poking. I'm sort of point you or anyone else. I think those are just some of the things you have to learn to adjust. I'll tell you this about the executives. I know pretty good at managing time pretty good our prioritization and I just can't believe that people in that category or frankly. Most Americans could not find if sufficiently motivated and organized could not find ten hours a week to devote time to protecting for example, their children's water. Supply male are question. (00:22:58) Hi. Well, it just seems kind of like a spherical response because the way I see it as that to protect a free Society if I mean, this is about protecting a free society and yet I don't know how I would feel about having like civilian guards outside of water plant or patrolling the you know the mall in the Mall of America and saying you can't go there or just it seems like it Turn us into more of a military and it seems like there's would be a potential for something worse to happen. Like it would set a bad precedent. And then after that who knows where it would end. (00:23:27) Well, let me ask you this. I understand that concern but do you feel that way when you see the security in the new security at the airport or when you now go into a federal building or the post office or when you see the traffic cop? I mean it does that do you feel that your freedoms are impinge then (00:23:43) know? I don't know because (00:23:45) those are basically civilians and those are not necessarily (00:23:48) full time. You're talking more about like a draft. Yeah. And so that that's that's the distinguishing Factor here is that these people are actually going in and being paid to do this and you're talking about instituting a national draft to have people guarding the water tower at you know, wherever it just seems I just think that seems like a potential for something really bad to happen (00:24:09) and it's a real shock to the system to consider that but I think that those are the times we now live in and I think the complacency God is to September 11 me ask you this. Mr. Obermann one of the Features of the military serving in military on active duty is you do not have the right to say. No. I mean unless you're told to do something. That's absolutely criminal but it doesn't matter what your wishes are what your desires what your personal situation maybe if you're told to do something you're expected to do it or you'd have to pay the consequences of same situation here. Oh, I don't think it's any different from the reserves or any police organization operation in this country. There is a chain of command there is a scope of mission and within that scope of mission, you have to follow the chain of command but you know the police you can quit if you're a police officer and you don't want to somebody tells you to do something you can just up and quit you. Can't quit if you're in the military. Well, that's not entirely true. Of course. I mean there are situations where people can refuse to to follow orders that they believe are crimes against humanity, but I don't I certainly don't Envision but the question raises wouldn't a circumstance like that no doubt Bubble Up in this large population, all the different circumstances will exist in the future. You're probably right. They will I can't tell you what they would be but I think I would be more comfortable that a vast majority of citizens from a variety of backgrounds be involved in this kind of effort after all the protecting their own neighborhoods in their own homes is not entirely different than the concept of crime watch which many communities have and which in some communities are organized by the police Chuck. You're next. (00:25:46) Thanks for taking my call. Yes. I am 45 years old. I'm ready to enlist if it if it has to be or not enlist but go for the draft, but why why initially made the draft when we could possibly get enough of people to sign up to go and do this on their own that just probably wants a little extra money or whatever instead of taking, you know, because as their constituent, you know, The United States we should just put this draft in I don't totally agree with that. I think that all right take the people that want to do it first then if you don't have enough to cover to protect our water supplies, then go ahead and a (00:26:34) draft. All right. Thanks Chuck with Chuck. I think that you raised a good a good first step. And I think maybe that's one way to do this. My only concern is I think we've gotten away from this and I'm afraid we'll get away from a lot more in the future. And that's this that this is a duty that I think every citizen has I think there are now price has to be paid for our freedoms that we've all taken for granted or many of us have taken for granted. I among them and I worry a little bit that you continue to stratify your Society between those who can afford to get others to do the dirty work for him and those people who for whatever reason are then volunteers, but I think that's an excellent first step and perhaps that perhaps that would be sufficient in any event. This is thinking outside the box. I think we have to have Looking outside the box. I think we're under attack Vance. Opperman is with us. So well known Twin Cities executive. He's president and CEO of key investment Incorporated and he has proposed a draft for Homeland defense purposes. And who would be drafted well in this instance, it would be middle aged Americans older Americans an opportunity to do their part for the war effort. Essentially. They would be used to keep an eye on key facilities water treatment plants power plants and the like a draft would be instituted. If you'd like to join our conversation about his proposal. Give us a call six five. One two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight if you get a busy signal hang up, wait a few minutes and try back a little later. We'll get to more listener calls here in just a couple of minutes right now. Let's catch up on news headlines your Stephen John Stephen. Thank you. Gary. President Bush is praising the world's support for the Coalition that's forming to fight terrorism. He hailed Saudi Arabia's decision to cut ties with the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Ganna Stan he spoke at the White House where Japan's prime minister pledged logistical and Medical Aid stock prices are fluctuating, but they're still relatively steady despite a report that consumer confidence plunged in the wake of the terror attacks analysts say the bigger concern for the market is still weak corporate profits, which shows few signs of improving soon Finance ministers from the world's wealthiest countries pledged to leave no stone unturned in the fight against terrorism the US and its major allies have agreed to freeze assets of terrorist organizations and attack terrorists in their pocketbooks families of those who died who are missing after the attacks are seeing some immediate help from the Red Cross. The agency is giving them grants of up to $30,000 each officials. Say when the number of dead or missing his added up the gift will equal about 100 million dollars. The tax free payments are meant to cover short-term expenses such as monthly mortgage costs and utility bills. The first checks went out Friday, Minnesota officials are asking For emergency Federal money to help deal with the Ripple effects of the September 11th attacks State officials. Say job losses will far exceed. The 4500 job Cuts Northwest Airlines is making in Minnesota an estimated ten thousand five hundred more. Minnesota workers could find themselves out of work from the ripple effect of the travel slow down Minnesota's trade and economic development commissioner Rebecca. Janish as asked for 24 million dollars in emergency federal aid to bolster the state's displaced worker program the forecast calling for sunny conditions Statewide today highs from 55 to 65 lows tonight in the mid 30s to low 40s and some 60s expected tomorrow right now at Fargo-Moorhead. It's sunny and 55 Grand Marais has 54 degrees st. Cloud 53. It's 52 in Albert Lea and in the Twin Cities is our Gary sunny skies, and it's 53 degrees. All right. Thanks Dave and why 26 minutes before one o'clock midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio and this hour we're talking about a proposal which would call for older folks older Americans. Be drafted to help in the defense of the Homeland Vance. Opperman is our guest again. Let me give you the phone number, but don't dial please you'll just get frustrated. Try in a few minutes, six, five. One two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Lori your necks good place. (00:30:37) Hi there it was trying to go through since September 11th and volunteer my services. So to speak I don't have specific skills, but I can cook. I'm not squeamish with blood. I can handle a firearm. I can do a lot of support items and all I've been getting back in responses that my ages. You know, I'm too old to enlist so I like this idea about a draft and I guess I would I would like to see something like that or if that isn't a possibility now some place to volunteer at aside from Red Cross because I'm looking at an old factory work just (00:31:23) support well good this Advanced good for you. And you know really it's outrageous to say what are you too old to be a citizen big sign at the World Trade Center to Old enter the World Trade Center. No, I don't think people are too old and there are plenty of ways we can be of service and we ought to be Tom your next go ahead and place (00:31:43) thanks for taking my call Gary Advance on this is a very interesting concept. I'm happy to see this discussion taking place because as a as a former veteran of in the Navy and a son of a World War Two veteran and Grandson of a World War One veteran, I'm concerned about the citizenship in this in this in the country right now, and I'm Really anxious to see something done to get this al-qaeda's people exposed and the security of our our communities and the people in our communities become more involved and I guess I really don't have a question, but I'm just more comment and (00:32:30) support. You know, I appreciate that in aren't you concerned that 90 days from now if nothing bad happens that people start to forget and will go back to what it was before September and what bothers me is that the attacks on Americans have escalated since 93 93 the World Trade Center in 95 97 the Kenya Embassy the USS Cole last year, they get more and more severe more and more sophisticated. And now frankly we're told that all we have to do is to die in large numbers and that that's horrifying and I think it requires real vigilance on behalf of every citizen. As you well know you were active in the in the anti-war movement back during the Vietnam War was do you anticipate longer term that this war is going to create the kind of Divisions in this society that Vietnam did well like like so many questions this area. I really do not claim to have any kind of crystal ball. I my belief is that it's totally different. And the reason I say that I see a real difference between fighting 7,000 miles away in a civil war where there are clearly defined roles for the combatants. That is they want this particular piece of territory. They were not particularly interested in killing Americans in Minnesota or New York. I see a real difference between that kind of conflict where you can debate whether or not you ought to be involved in that conflict and I don't believe at the time and I still don't believe we should have been and a conflict that we didn't seek to be went to work and they were there who killed an American American soil? Totally different Tammy. You're (00:34:18) next. Thank you. I've seen a lot of pictures of the Taliban Army and they are all older men. They look like they're in their 30s 40s and 50s. I think they're if there are men that have served before that are in their 30s 40s and 50s that would like to serve again. I think they should be able to go and fight if that's what they want to do. I feel that if we send in our young men with older men of the Taliban are me I don't think any will be coming home and I feel that if they do do a draft they should screen the young men and pickled the ones that do want to fight in the ones that don't want to fight because if you send over a 19 year old boy that doesn't want to fight he's not going to come home. (00:35:06) Now Tammy, what about this idea in the meanwhile closer to home back on the home front here? What about this idea that mr. Opperman has suggested that older folks be drafted so that they can protect vital facilities here in the United States think that's a good idea. (00:35:24) I think the young men should be picked to do the Homeland and I think the older ones that have been in Wars before that want to be in this one should be able (00:35:36) to but what about the vast majority of the rest of us who do not have a military background and came by his listen to this and and and fails to grasp at about my background. They have no military background and having served do what we get a free ride. I don't think that's fair and frankly. I think we have a lot to offer. I think I could easily be around water treatment plant with a video camera or backup telecommunication. I can do that. I think many many Americans. What about the rest of us shouldn't we have that (00:36:06) Duty? Yeah, we should all have the duty but what I'm saying is that there are probably a lot of young men. That would be scared to death. Do I don't think they should be forced to go if they're scared because like I said, they won't come home. (00:36:23) I should I should let you know Tammy that again the defense secretary Rumsfeld address the issue of a draft for younger people during his press conference today and said that at this point the Pentagon is is not even talking about such a thing. So you can rest easy on that front practical question Vance Opperman presumably if somebody wanted terrorists wanted to attack the Monticello nuclear power plant. They wouldn't send stumblebums to do it. These would be well trained operators would older folks who are you know of with minimal training be up to the job to actually fair at these folks out and and send out warning at least or would they simply be no match for for a trained group of terrorists Gary. I know. Don't know. I don't know anything about the training of terrorists what I read in the newspaper indicates some of the terrorists involved on September 11. We're not that well trained but again and common citizens are sometimes able to do great things of Flight 93 for example, but the concept here is to guard areas that we just don't have man-powered otherwise guard and that does require that there be armed backup that shows up if they're alerted of course and that that's basically what you're looking at him. Everyone ends their broadcast by saying well keep your eyes and ears open. What's that mean? What's it mean? Keep your eyes and ears open? I don't walk into walls my eyes and ears are open. But at two o'clock in the morning around vital facilities are any eyes our ears and the idea is to have people there and there can be armed backup and presumably you have to organize that that's really what you're looking is like locking your door at night you lock your door at night. Of course Everyone likes the door at night. There's a glass window generally next to that door person could break the glass reach in under the door, but the reason you like Or night is a lot of people know that find out the doors locked and they move on it's a deterrent it's not a complete deterrent of course, but it's a deterrent it makes things a little more difficult. It makes people can notice things they can notice people arguing and Logan airport and call the authorities as did happen actually on September 11, or possibly they keep their eyes and ears open it a flight training school and they find some guy that doesn't want to participate in takeoffs and landings. We just wants to go straight and make turns all kinds of ways that people who have their eyes and ears open if organized can be helpful Keith here question. (00:38:51) Yes, Gary. I definitely have a different take on all this as an American like or what else I do appreciate that older veterans or willing to go back and do their part again, but I think every generation of Americans has had their chance to rise up and be counted on and you know, this is this Generations opportunity in World War Two, you know, it wasn't the World War One Veteran's bit. Our Normandy, you know, they had their chance in the nineteen fifteen sixteen Seventeen twenty five years later. It was a new younger generation. We've got a military now, that's well prepared. You know, it's not like they're standing idly by the Delta Force the seals. I mean, they're ready they're anxious. And if anything we should be looking at possibly a peacetime mandatory military service for 18 year olds much the way they have around the world for 12 to 18 months and we're going to get good quality soldiers that way if everybody serves everybody gives 12 to 18 months. We're going to have a high not that we don't have a high-quality military now, but we'll have even a higher quality because we will get the best of the best and we'll bring the bar higher and it'll get more exposures to people that that might not have thought about a permanent lifetime military career and that's the flat we should be taken here. Thank you, Gary. (00:40:16) I don't disagree with anything you've said is just that the the war is different. Unlike Normandy the real thing that most might be having to be defended as your little local Water Company 2 miles from your house. If they that were to reinstate the draft in the more traditional sense though, it would seem like especially when I would seem like there would be plenty of Manpower than for the most part to take care of what you're concerned about but it would be within a more traditional military setting would that would that meet your needs then your concerns it would certainly meet many of them. And again, I don't there are military experts and all the answer that or working the answers out and no doubt. They'll will find out about that and have an opportunity to our elected representatives to help make those decisions. But I think the broader question of whether or not citizens have a duty that they have to fill themselves not by relying on somebody else or pain somebody else better to do it, but they themselves Now a duty I think that has to be addressed and I think there are opportunities for that. And when you have a country as large as ours with the potential of disruption on almost every urban street corner, I think there are plenty of opportunities to serve and I frankly think that is now that ought to be high on the list of what citizens do a regardless of age Eliana your question. (00:41:39) I guess I have more of a comment in the beginning I completely disagree time a mother with two small children. My husband's the only one in the workplace. But as I started thinking about was being said I started to think of how this would serve our country in a much bigger way and not so much just of Duty but what our country lacks a lot is the sense of community responsibility and care for one another and I think this would be the perfect opportunity to Institute that but not only with middle-aged men and women get our younger people involved because the older people and the younger people are busy doing other things the children. We'll have to help at home more and I think it would help us pull together more as a community. (00:42:21) Well, I agree with that. I have a seven and nine year old and for the first time in my life, I don't think I can guarantee that the water they drink is safe. So I think there's an immediate need but beyond that for people that were younger claim that they have no duty to serve, you know, if their grandmother or grandfather is pulling Duty it's a little bit tougher to make that argument. What about expanding the concept beyond the the broad but still kind of narrow notion of Homeland defense to include drafting wider group of people who would I don't know end up in a working for the public health system or perhaps providing childcare service that sort of thing that again the emphasis being here on service national service little bit less emphasis on homeland defense. Would that fit into your vision? Yes, and I think that's a good idea. LM your question, thank you. When I read your piece (00:43:16) mr. Up, and I thought it sound like a good idea and that it sounded a lot like civil defense in World War Two but then I thought about it a bit and I concluded a lot of things have changed in the past 60 years including our demand for benefits and our willingness to look for someone else to blame. If you implemented your plan how long you think it would be before people would demand education benefits medical benefits retirement benefits would workers comp cover all of this people all this group and would you pass legislation that would provide immunity from lawsuits all liability for the actions of these people including liabilities of the government for child molesters who would be part of your (00:44:00) core. Well, you know, I let me ask that first this way much of what you you're coming about I think has an antidote a Larger sense of commitment to our broader community and I don't know any way to cause that to have we can have continually have successive disasters and we'll continue going Memorial services but I suspect there's there's I think there's more constructive way for people to understand what it means to be an American the price they have to pay and more specific answer your question. Yes. I think you could craft legislation that would not make benefits widely available in have very limited liability situations within the scope of mission. Yes, I think you could do that when City's business executive bandsaw. Opperman is our guest and he has proposed in a commentary published in Sunday's Star Tribune, the idea of drafting older middle-aged Americans to take care of Homeland defense in this time of terrorist threats folks would be drafted and then they would be assigned and and a National Guard Reserve type commitment to guard water plants power plants and the rest interesting idea that's generated. Lots of All's this hour and let's get back to some more callers Brenda. You're next. (00:45:18) I just wanted to comment. First of all, I live between a nuclear power plant and a Refinery and so there's some nights that when after the they hit the tower I really thank God that what if it had hit that anyway, I totally agree. I think the US needs to get off and quit depending on everybody else to take care of it and do the Dirty Work As Americans need to do it. I don't think they should do like a draft more like a jury duty type thing where they say. Okay, you're going to have to do two weeks or make a specific time or whatever and then at a certain time, they'll find out what it will be doing and I think more people will be up for that and it and not just older people start it when they're 18, if they're old enough to vote. Why are they not old enough to help and it should be a lifetime (00:46:06) commitment? Alright Vance. Well, I don't disagree that the idea that is a duty as Citizens. Goddess of age is re the concept that I wanted to see discussed. I was amazed to be honest with you. I hadn't read an ID like this or an approach like this since the 11th of September and but the idea that citizens have this Duty that they ought to be a sign that they have to protect things their neighbors their neighborhood the things that make their neighborhoods livable. I think that ought to be done and frankly, I think it all to hit all ages. But but I concentrate on the people over 45 because they're always the ones that have either served or overlooked or people say, well, you know, they're too old or they there to and firm and I just don't think that's true. I just I reject that. I think you have a duty as a citizen you can easily discharge it certainly over the age of 45 Brenda refers to jury duty and we all know that a good many people Bob and weave and do everything conceivable to get out of jury duty. I think that's a bad idea to by the way wouldn't wouldn't you anticipate the same kind of thing happening here where well gosh, I think it's a good idea. And why don't you go do it for me somebody else? Oh do it. Yeah. Well, I think yes, I unfortunately there will be some of that. I think there's always some of that but you know, I'll tell you I think Americans have a little more togetherness than that. They have certainly had a vivid reminder of that and you get every time you turn your television set on I hope we have no more such reminders, but I'm not sure that we are proof against that but yes, you would have some of that but I think would be a small number Joel your (00:47:44) comment. Yes. Thank you for taking my call. You bet first like to thank mr. Opperman for writing that essay and I hope they syndicated in the National media but to give a little context of my comments. I was a confused 18 year old back in 1969 and when they had the lottery for the draft and I had a fair amount of animosity toward the government because I had friends that were drafted and other friends that I saw going off to college with the deferments and I guess I guess. the draft Using the lottery, I believe would create more than animosity. But I hope the president and the government has the wisdom to know that if a war is worth fighting the whole country should be involved. I believe Vietnam is an example of that. I believe the will of the Vietnamese probably won that war when majority of Americans were home watching TV and I would also like to state that I'm a little ignorant of what's going on in Switzerland, but I believe they have a militia. I believe the commitment is two years if I'm not mistaken, you know anything about (00:49:02) that. It is one of the few countries that still has an actual draft most other countries have done away. Russia still has one but everybody does this Israel's best they can get out of it. But well, that's right. I but again I think if you have the also the difference is this war is so far has been fought and May in the future be fought on American soil. I think all citizens should be involved. I don't think it's fair that people by luck of the lottery or because they plan to go to law school or because their parent is a congress person that they are somehow exam father's March off. I think it's unfair not a lot of time but let's get a couple more comments on here last year up next. Go ahead. (00:49:43) All right. Thank you. I guess my my concern. I mean I was equally horrified by the events of few weeks ago in New York is everybody was but my concern is I fear you might be establishing a sort of dangerous precedent by establishing a draft you're talking about conscripting people to serve and I just I just get the gut feeling that that could go awry in a variety of different ways. How do you fear? Well, I guess. I guess I just see it. Well, I mean, I guess I think you have to deal there's how can I put this? There's just so many variables with with you know, human beings across the country. What if you have children for example, and you can't make the time because your wife is working or whatever the case may be to go for 10 hours a week and blah blah blah. Did you get what I'm getting at (00:50:41) here? Well, I think there can always be exceptions and hardship cases the military always faces that issue but II frankly fear terrorists a great deal more and I think we all should Joyce your comment. (00:50:53) Yes. I just wanted to say how miserable I am totally in favor of having those of us that are in our 40s or even late 30s involved in this. I don't think that we need to have a draft. I think you're going to find that there are more of us out here that are willing to be Volunteers in this endeavor. I am not military background at all, but I do work full-time. I'm pretty sure my employer being in the health care industry would be more than willing to let those of us that are interested off a couple times a month or We do it in the evening or the weekends. It won't interfere with our jobs like the last caller stated if you have a family or other commitments like that. I think it's important for parents to be home with their kids if they can be but there might be some parents whether they be male or female that are willing to volunteer. (00:51:42) That's a great idea and I think be great. If everyone showed up Van Cybermen, do you think that the enthusiasm that might be generated by your idea for implemented the enthusiasm the might be generated generated initially would Wane over times? You know, the government is talking about many many many years kind of an ongoing commitment here. So let's say ten years from now would people still be as eager to get out there and guard that nuclear power plant. Well, probably not and three o'clock in the morning on a nice February Minnesota that enthusiasm might have a way of winning a bit further more. Hopefully if we do this you'd have ten years in your hypothetical and nothing had happened would you be It however having said that I think that you institutionalize it you organize it people understand that that's just part of what they're going to have to do and they get it and get it done. And I think that's how you institutionalize and and make that part of the duties of citizenship. It becomes part of our culture and part of what we look forward to John quick comment before we (00:52:43) quit. Yeah. First of all, thank you Vince to wonderful idea. I read it on Sunday and I was thrilled to read it and coming from the other side of the political Spectrum from you. I want to point out that when you're right, you're right. So I appreciate everything you did, you know, a wise man said the greatest among you shall be your servant and this is our chance as a country to unite and be servants. I have a motto for the Homeland Defence Corps, Marine Corps will forgive me semper vigilance would be a good be a good Mater always Vigilant but you know Lance went your Advance when you're right, you're right and I support it and I actually was against the idea of a draft. But the more I think about it the more I think that Three service might be the way to go because there is no front in this war. The front is your backyard. Yeah, the front is the water power the water plants and the power plants. So I think it's a great idea and I think those of you that are afraid of the draft or those of you that we're able to be deferred from the draft. I'm think there's probably a lot of guilt out there. This could be a chance for atonement to so I think it's a great idea (00:53:47) get older your Congressman. Have you heard anything official from anybody anybody in the government saying well gosh, let's talk. No. I haven't and I did this I was amazed others hadn't really confronted this issue yet. I'm sure there are people in private that have and but I we have sent copies of this and we will make some phone calls. I think we ought to keep looking at this drafter drag no draft. Do you think we're up to the do we have the patience? And the metal is a society to To fight the war of the president's talking about. Well, I agree. I think we have that patience at some point. I hope that it does not take more tragedies like September 11 to give us that patients. Thanks for coming in today. Appreciate it. Thank you Vance Opperman who is the president and CEO of key investment Incorporated joining us this hour to talk about his proposal for a draft a draft that would Target older Americans their job would be to help in Homeland defense watch those water plants and nuclear power plants in the rest. Thanks for joining us today programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by the Saint Paul chamber orchestra join history at the inaugural concert of Andreas delves Maestro deaths directs Mozart's the abduction from the seraglio at the Ordway September 28th and 29th w-w-w dot the SP co.org Neal Conan and more coverage of the attack on America next on the next All Things Considered preserving a cold war Relic a minute, man. Silo to teach future Generations about nuclear war it's all things considered (00:55:21) weekdays at 3:00 on (00:55:21) Minnesota Public Radio. KN o WF M 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio Sunny Sky 53 degrees at Kenner wfm 91.1 Minneapolis and Saint Paul could hit 60 under a sunny sky at this afternoon partly cloudy skies are forecast for later tonight with an overnight low in the upper 30s. So it'll be a little warmer than it was last. I tomorrow partly cloudy High 64 68