Good morning, and welcome to mid-day. I Mike Edgerly Gary eichten returns tomorrow our guest this hour is one of this country's finest novelist in one of its best known Native. American Writers James Welch is the author of The award-winning fools Crow and three other novels and most recently than non-fiction work killing Custer. Mr. Welch's out with a new novel. It's called the heart song of charging elk James Welch lives in Missoula Montana and is in the Twin Cities for a book signing and reading tonight at the open book Center in Minneapolis-Saint Paul Studios to talk about this novel and to take your questions. Mr. Welch, welcome to mid-day. Thank you. Mike is going to be here. How was the trip from Missoula Montana to the Twin Cities after 2 and got here a little after 5 was no problem with the forest fires in your travels then no just a lot of smoke but no no real fires.You've written a book called The heartsong of charging elk. It's the story of a young Lakota man. Who joins Buffalo Bill's Wild West show for a tour of Europe in the late 19th century. He becomes separated from the the tour in France and your novel follows him as he deals with the changes with with with the challenges he faces with language and culture. Tell us a little bit about where what your inspiration was for the story. How did this come about? Well if that happened, I think probably in about 995. I was in France on a book-signing tour. I'll just come out in French and so I was traveling with my editor in my wife and we're going from City to City to promote the book The doing signings and one of the stops was in Marseille and I was in a very hot stuffy bookstore. This was a toward the end of May and it was really hot down there and I noticed during the whole. This guy hanging around and he is wearing kind of western clothes a blue jeans big belt buckle and dab western shirt and sort of French version. I suppose western clothes in the morning. And afterwards some of us went to get a cold drink and Outdoor Cafe and he came with us and he was sitting on the other side of my editor and you can speak English. I can speak French but my attitude was in between us. He spoke with my editor for a while. And finally my editor turned to me and said that this guy says that his grandmother came over in 1905 was Buffalo Bill's Wild West show really and Merida met a Frenchman fell in love with him and married him in Marcy and this guy is the grandson of that Union and my editor said, I don't think that's true. I think he's a wannabe a good laugh over that and then I went home that summer and I think I'd probably mowing my lawn or something and I started to think about this and I said, well that's really interesting whether it was true or not. And so that kind of became the starting point for my book our guest this morning in this hour of middays James Welch his new novel is the heart song of charging up if you'd like to speak with. Mr. Welch. Our number in the Twin Cities is 651-227-6000. And one 800-242-2828. Mr. Welch did did this did something like this happened? Did a young Lakota Man actually leave the Buffalo Bill Wild West show in France and then have some years ahead of him in France. Did this actually occur? the closest thing that occurred to it was that Keeping a blackout Black Elk speaks. He went to his Buffalo Bill in 1887 two years before the French adventure for a Queen Victoria's Jubilee celebration and they performed in London and then they traveled around through England and Scotland and then they were due to take the boat back to America and black out missed the boat. And so he kind of wandered around Europe for a couple of years. I hooked up with another Wild West show and and then when the show came back to Europe in 1889, they are performing in Paris for the Paris Exposition and black y'all got together with the show again in Buffalo Bill asked him if he wanted to tour and they said no he want to go home. And and that's when he said he developed his vision for his people that he wanted to go home and help help his people who so he did leave but that was only two years. Another incident a man named featherman actually died in Marseille. He died of the flu during the time that the wild west shows down there and so he's buried there and it was kind of like these experiences + PR feel as a story idea for me about his grandmother that all conspired to writing this book and both featherman and blackout play a role in the story that you've created the story of charging elk. Yes. Featherman, of course is one of charging Elk's buddies and and get sick at the same time as charging out does Black Ya'll? Keep comes to the camp by There's an actual scene where he comes to the camp and Paris and Buffalo Bill tries to talk him into staying but he says his heart of the second he wants to go home. And and so he does what the tell us a little bit about the Buffalo Bill's wild west shows. I mean, so obviously you've documented the fact that that that the Native America From this country did in fact leave their family and friends and travel with the show to Europe putting on shows depicting the Battle of Little Bighorn and attacks on settlers and bison hunts and all sorts of things. What how did these shows come about? And what was their popularity in Europe? Well, I believe the Buffalo Bills show came about as kind of a promotional deal between Buffalo Bill in a couple of of promoters. They decide to put the show together a Buffalo Bills and troper farmer in the people loved him at end the show the show it was as they progress Through The Years became more sophisticated and so on ask for their European tour European people really love the show and they especially love the Indians on the one hand. They had a romantic view of the Indians as Noble Savages and his Vanishing American they were convinced that the Indians that this would be the last time that be able to see the Indians and and so they all turned out in droves to come see the Indians and this really happened there the day these shows were quite popular in in France and England and elsewhere in Europe, Germany, Austria Holland everywhere. What would motivate a young Lakota man or or blackout cool who had visions that actually led to the to the three famous Ghost Dance in the late 19th century. What would motivate these these people these young and older people to to go with Buffalo Bill to a place that maybe they hadn't even imagined. I think through things motivated him. When was the sense of adventure actually three things motivated. When was the sense of adventure? Another one was money. They were actually paid quite well for that. Of time and end the alternative was to stay on the reservation and plant potatoes course, they were buffalo culture in and that was a demeaning kind of way of living so they got to perform in the old way. They got to ride their horses chase the Buffalo they got to sing and dance and reenact a lot of the historical things that happened between the lakotas and the white people out in the west. So that was another motivating factor. I think probably the third thing was they just really enjoyed what they were doing and end it was just a way of living in the old way. They know it was fake. But but still it Better than planting potatoes when they got the ride. They had they had horses and there were bison that traveled with the show and they recreated the Hunts that which they wouldn't be able to do. Even if even if even in their imaginations on the on the reservations, I suppose. Yeah, pretty much the Buffalo were all gone and deer and elk and so on we're getting quite scares to and so are the people on the reservation were more and more dependent upon the government for a Commodities and also supposedly they would plant potatoes and other crops in and make a subsistence living that way. So the show is just too great alternative and actually was only a humanitarian groups and the government to really objected to the Indians travelling with Buffalo Bills show. They felt Buffalo Bill is exploiting these young people and demeaning the Indian culture Enterprise. Where is the Indian performers were quite happy with the show. So that was probably true. But it was the that in fact, they probably were it probably was demeaning and disrespectful but at least it kept something alive writer of the old culture and the old guys actually did not mistreat the Indians. That was the other thing that they're being mistreated. They were being starved and exploited and overworked, but actually they weren't in and most of the Union performers actually sent quite a bit of money home to their parents are guests in this hour of midday is James Welch. He's the author of the new book published just this month the heart song of charging elk. It's a novel is also the author of fools Crow and three other novels and most recently a nonfiction work killing Custer if you'd like to speak with mr. Welch. Our numbers are 651-227-6000 in the Twin Cities and outside the Metro 1-800 to four. 22828 talking about the real history of the Buffalo Bill wild west shows and the story you've created in the heartsong of charging elk. It would tell us a little bit about that. Of time after the battle or the the the fight the event at Little Bighorn. What was it like for the plains bands at that time? Well, I think we're not good for the Plains Indians at that time and the Lakota people who figured very prominently and in that battle of the bands are lakotas were on the reservation within one year of the battle as they fully expected to be. They know that the Army was just too powerful. But the battle is there one last hurrah one last Triumph. And so all of the Bands including crazy horses Oglala people Run Reservation only Sitting Bull's band Popeyes. They escaped up into Canada where they lived for the next four years and then it came down so that it wasn't a good. Of time adjusting to life at agencies was just not not good and I felt it. Actually they were not bothering anybody when are out in the Montana territory. Hunting the Buffalo. They really want a Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull really only wanted to be left alone. They're not hostile Indians. They just wanted to be left alone. And of course it was a government policy to leave them alone. They had to be on reservations. Right? Let's go to work haulers. Let's go to Eric in Duluth Eric. You're on with James Welch. Hello? Mr. Welch. Hello. How are you today? Thanks. Yeah. I was wondering about the Indian culture of up in northern Minnesota. And it seems like they don't do much to commemorate the Indian that you know used to be so prevalent around this area. And I mean, you don't see plaques on the roadside saying here was once an Indian village and so forth Well, I should think that should change I know outwest I think the reservations are pretty well-documented with the signs and histories in in The Dakotas and Montana. So I'm kind of surprised to hear that here in Minnesota. At least in that part where you lived at the Indians are kind of have been forgotten about his books. And so far if you can study the subject but it's not a very a real popular thing and that you see around the area now and I assume there are ceremonies and celebrations powwows in the powwow and then they could probably learn a little bit that way. Yeah, well, it's interesting subject in your booking appreciate learning about this type of thing. Thank you for your call Eric. Thank you. Literature is one way to keep these Traditions alive and to maybe to infuse some life into the into the stories of of of the bands in the tribes Sherman. Alexie in yourself seem to have put some some some new life into two stories by and about Native American people Simon Ortiz Joy harjo if you could name a part of the Reason, I think that Indian people write is to preserve the culture and and to also explain how the culture has been changed by by the coming of the white people and have the cultures had to adapt other traditions of had to change along with his looks so. Yeah. I think that's a very important part. In fact, I always have considered my writing to be educational as well as entertaining. Let's go to the phones again to Adrian in Duluth. You're on the air with James Welch like to ask the speaker about something I've heard about after the battle of Wounded Knee the the the Braves that were alive still at that point. I've heard that they were punished part of the punishment was they were sent to the Wild Bill's show and part of their punishment was to re-enact the battle in that show and This isn't fit to me with the image that you're giving that the Indians wanted to be there and that they were happy with what they were doing. No, I hadn't heard that you know, it's probably a rumor but I never heard of the joining the show as as a punishment for anyting and in fact, I've always heard that in all the recruiting trips that the big bosses of the Wild West show made to the reservation is there was quite an audition many young people wanted to go with them. Because it wasn't adventure and they would get paid and it was a chance to show off their culture to a wide variety of of other people Americans and Europeans, like right maybe what I just heard as a rumor, but I figured it was from a pretty good source. Thank you. Anyway by the heart song of charging elk were under way before Wounded Knee to places. Am I am I getting my chronology, right? Yeah. You are his friend. Live is eventually became famous for the Ghost Dance at the Oglala people performing a ghost ants have there and and government authorities and the soldiers themselves were afraid to go to the stronghold because it was too well defended place and then and there were a lot of Indians out there. So yeah lives out there before the Ghost Dance as a matter of fact is recruited in May. I think it is in the Ghost ant starts shortly there after I'm done. So in at least in the in the context of your novel, he missed the conflicts that came from that from the Ghost Dance. Forward. Yes, that's right, and he didn't know about Wounded Knee. So one point of doing a kind of third person account which gives us the rest of Lakota history of them to Wounded Knee and maybe a little bit behind but I couldn't think of any way to actually fit into the book and and have him keep his own Consciousness and that's it. The big part of the story isn't it his Consciousness. I mean his awareness of of where he is and and his spiritual link to his home and to his people remain strong doesn't it? Yeah, does he has Visions he has dreams and in a car she has his memories and in a sense. I think that's how he survives those early years in in France is by remembering I was very content to remember what about his people he's very content with most of his dreams that with the exception of one in which he has a dream of his people being destroyed his troubles him for basically the entire rest of the book. That's how he combats the floor by remembering the familiarity of his own culture. Our Guest is James. Well, she's the author of the heart song of charging elk what you just been published by Doubleday. He's also the author of fools Crow and three other novels and A nonfiction book called killing Custer which was your recounting of the of the of the events leading up to the Battle of Little Bighorn from the Native American perspective. Yeah, that's true. Actually a young filmmaker contacting me lived in Boston and he asked me if I wanted to call write a script for a documentary movie based on the Battle of Little Bighorn and and eventually I agreed and we got together several times after that and wrote this thing and it later came out as last time that Little Bighorn on American Experience program during that time. I did a lot of research and and Red lot of books on my editor suggested. Okay. Well, why don't you write a non-fiction book? And so I did and it came out as killing Custer mainly about the Battle of Little Bighorn boots ostrich in a general sense. It's about the. Of history from post Civil War through the battle of the massacre at Wounded Knee history. If you'd like to talk to James Welch our number in the Metro is 651-227-6000 area one 800-242-2828. Here's a basic question for you. Mr. Welch. What is a heart song? Well, I think in this context it's it's not it's not a traditional song. It's more like his own personal heartsong. This book is is about it. I think and how it evolves and changes that it's about his longing for his culture. It's about his adapting to a new culture. It's about finding something new to to be happy with part of the book is not only about reminiscing about the past but it's about trying to be happy in this new culture and it's very difficult for him to be happy and he is constantly searching and he thinks a woman would help in any events Lee woman does helps the heart song I think is really the personal song love his own. Did you have a model did you have in your mind an image of a of a young man? Who would have been the model for charging elk? Did you tell you right about someone have you did you know of some young young Lakota who in your mind was the the model for the for the character in this novel? Constantly metal out of Lakota young men Pine Ridge reservation The Standing Rock and so on and I've always been very impressed with them and so in his hands maybe is a composite of a lot of these young Indian Bend that I've met two starting way back in the days of aim and they were very impressive individuals. And so maybe he came out of that experience and partly just made up the novelist ability to create write. How do you feel about the the Nations regard now for for the Native American people do feel that? There is a a shift in attitude towards what was sort of a stereotypical view to something that maybe is more realistic but also maybe more appreciating of of the lives that that planes band. Well, I'm boy. That's a tough question because you know, it's usually the people that need education are the ones that don't get it, you know, and the people who who are quite the liberal Progressive who who are open to the ideas of different cultures. They're the ones who actually read the most books that the written by Indian people. So it's it's hard to say how Indians were perceived in America as a group are the Indians are helping themselves a lot more than they used to in terms of tribal colleges and better health programs addressing social issues like alcoholism and drug taking how are you how are your books regarded among native? Are the widely-read pretty widely read that as I mentioned their tribal colleges are most reservations at West and high school's. Yeah. They are quite widely read Dan and they're quite well received the young people identify with somebody characters and an even older people upset. You know, they say at this is just like it is on my reservation to so I'm really pleased with that response and I guess in some ways by creating a novel based on historical fact, you're actually keeping or maybe informing younger people something telling them something about their culture. Maybe they didn't know I would presume. Yeah, I think so. I think whenever you you write a historical book, I think it is educational for the young people of the tribal groups that you're talking about. I know. I recreate a nineteenth-century Montana blackfeet country. I know there's a lot of young black people got an idea better idea of their ancestry and I hope that this would Follow through in the heart song of charging out. I guess this our midday is James Welch. He's the author of the new book The heartsong of charging elk and will return with him after I look at news and this break your listening to Minnesota Public Radio. Today's programming is made possible in part by The Advocates of Minnesota Public Radio contributors include the McKnight Foundation working to strengthen families and communities. Despite getting nowhere at the legislature in recent years Advocates of new stadiums for the twins Vikings and Gophers are still trying to secure funding for new facilities. I'm. Nelly that story and all the news tomorrow on Morning Edition from 4 to 9 here on Minnesota Public Radio kuow FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. Time now for a news update their Steven John. Thank you. Mike. Good morning. Russians are seeing pictures of that sunken nuclear submarine broadcast on national TV Norwegian divers shot the video. They say a check of the sub shows. It's flooded and that there are no signs of Life leaders of the nation's major airlines have been summoned to a meeting with the transportation. Secretary Rodney Slater today. They are discussing all the delays and cancellations at airports this summer. They're trying to find ways to improve the situation for travelers. Both major-party presidential candidates are visiting the Midwest today. Al Gore is talking about his tax cut plans in Keokuk, Iowa Gore says his 500 billion dollar proposal would be targeted toward people who have the hardest time paying taxes. Military Affairs tops the agenda for George W bush. You'll be in Milwaukee this afternoon discussing his plans to be Military pay if you elected to the White House Bush also wants to see more money spent on Veteran's Healthcare jury selection started today in the federal kidnapping and assault trial of an Eagle Bend Minnesota man accused of abducting his estranged wife and taking her to Mexico Federal prosecutors. Say James surf kidnapped his estranged wife Connie from her Long Prairie Home last February day. Trial is being heard before us district judge and Montgomery in Minneapolis. Burnsville Planning Commission is expected to present a proposal tonight to build an Amphitheater on the Minnesota River. The city council is unlikely to vote until next month. Bloomington is suing to force Burnsville to conduct a more thorough review of the traffic environmental and noise impact of the amphitheater. The forecast is for mostly sunny breezy conditions in the Northwest today scattered showers and thunderstorms across the east and south especially during the morning hours high should be in the 70s for the Twin Cities a mix of sun and clouds of slight chance of showers today with a high in the middle. Upper 70s Southeast winds at 6 to 12 miles per hour Duluth has overcast skies and 61° to partly cloudy in Marshall 70 there in the Twin Cities 65°. Am I guess latest news from The Newsroom. Thank you. Stephen. You're listening to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio coming up at noon today some political speeches from two men competing for the Reform Party can reform party's nomination for president will hear from Pat Buchanan and John hagelin that's coming up at noon today on midday in this hour of. Midday Our Guest is James Welch. He's the author of the heart song of charging elk a book just published by Doubleday. Mr. Welch is in town for a reading tonight at the open book Center in Minneapolis. That's at 7:30 tonight in Minneapolis at the open book Center. Mr. Welch thought that comes from reading the heartsong of charging out the story of this young Lakota man in in France in the end of the 19th. Trees that basically this is my impression people are all the same. The only thing that all that separates us is language and culture and history. I mean those are not insignificant issues, but basically people are all the same at least that's what I drive from your story. Is that a fair assumption to make or did I somehow Miss read your book? Well, I think is a fair assumption up to point. I think all the people of European ancestry is probably are pretty much alike, especially as they become Americans but it is interesting to think about the differences in in cultures. I suppose I could have made the difference between French culture American cultural white American culture. I even more different from each other than then they are portrayed in the book. But yeah, I think basically all the people are alike and they all have the same problems the same concern inside the same things that make them happy. I guess that's what I was saying is that it did seem that that that the French people in your book. We're we're after the same things that the charging up for it, but they were coming at it from a different way. And obviously they were in their Homeland not doing those those things. Let's go to Brent. You're in St. Paul. You're on the air with James Welch. I was wondering I have an anthropology background and I often see that the difficulty for when you're working with another culture and speaking of their past is that you're coming from your own culture and you're speaking in a way that affected by your own culture and I was wondering wondering if you worked with the point of view of the actual Lakota people and in your work. Did you work with any oral tradition or any Elders to help them speak speak for the voice of their own ancestors? That's my question or I'll take the response. Thank you. Thank you. Actually when I did the first two documentary film script for last and a Little Bighorn and then later riding the book Killing Custer I talk to a lot of Lakota people out of Oglala people and elders. Look out about that crawl and and Cheyenne people. So I really got it. And certainly I'm not going to be able to tell their story as well as they can talk themselves when they even attempt that but I think any fictional account I can come pretty close so that the attempt will be worthwhile in in the sense of it trying to educate people about I don't have a card to culture but Northern Plains Indian culture in general in St. Paul, you're on with James Welch. It's a fascinating topic the battle of the Little Bighorn at the greasy grass and I've studied it for 20 years and have at least two for five hundred bucks on it in next year. I would say that the NPR would do well to have a program on 125th anniversary of the Little Bighorn having said that what's up Jake has Not been adequately investigated or written about in terms of the Little Bighorn and that should be and and I'm including the dozens of Native American narratives of Cheyenne Lakota Papa. What have you and including even your book? What book would you write as the definitive work on the Little Bighorn? That's a tall order because you say Battle of Little Bighorn has been is the most depicted event in American history even larger than any event in the Civil War for instance. So that's it's been written two deaths. I think that's interesting a couple of new books new relatively new I have certainly after I use them for my book our the time motion Studies by a man named. I think it's John Gray and Rich Fox and the others who who did a grid system of the Battleground after it burned so they were able to see more clearly approximate to the direction of the battle and so on so anything incorporating this new kind of technology, I think would help make a book more definitive but it wasn't bad about people and and so I think really the people element is there and and as you said, Been several Indian accounts but damn immediately after the battle when the Indians were interviewed. They were very reluctant to say what they felt truly went on in the battle because they're afraid they'll be punished. And so I think there was a gap there of immediate memory that I wish could have been captured. Jump, thank you very much. I would suggest again that the next June 25 or 26 that which is the hundred 25th year anniversary of that famous battle that the Mist Wells be invited back and let the other panel on something that is captured the attention of all of America and then certainly the the folks in the Upper Midwest and and Montana is South Dakota Minnesota area. It's a fascinating subject because I'm afraid that there are no final answers and I was hoping that mr. Welch would give me the magic key to that final answer Jim. Thanks for your call. Thank you. Perhaps the magic answer is what keeps our curiosity alive after all these years. Mr. Welch. What is what do you suppose? It is about one battle really just one one incident that the captured our imagination so Well, I'm glad that a lot of factors went into it. One of course was the Custer personality. He was just this, you know a civil war hero at the age of 23 became a general the youngest person to become a general after the war is busted back. That was a battlefield commission, but them so he was very fascinating character the characters of Sitting Bull from charging Alec. We're very fascinating and and you tell you got these personalities together and at the time America was celebrating their Centennial and Philadelphia. They were talking about the technological advances of the Miracles and so on and word comes to people at this Exposition that this whole group of soldiers have been wiped out in the west and this was the most modern Army in the world at the time and so people couldn't believe that a bunch of savages could wipe out Custer and his true. And they want the Army to come down hard on them. Once they did and then so on but I think it just captured the kind of Frontier imagination of people at that time and and it goes all the way to Europe feathers. They're very concerned about the other Frontier and and especially the Indian people is is the interest in the in the west Native American peoples and in the western history still a part of our friendship and another European still interested in what took place just like we are just like Jim was about Little Bighorn. Oh, absolutely. They're just some of them are quite fanatical about it that both French and German and some Italian people that I've met to know exactly what happened. And I think as you suggested if the mystery went out of the Battle of Little Bighorn, it might not be such a big deal, but since nobody can completely say what exactly happened there. From an overall perspective. I think it's going to remain a mystery and it will remain very big in people's imaginations. Let's go back to the phones Carol in Orono you're on with James Welch taking my call. I was just curious my husband and I were privileged to visit the Plains Indian museum this summer in Cody, Wyoming and found it to be a wonderful facility, and we are I am wondering if you have ever done any research there. Mr. Welch and I'll hang up and listen. Thank you. I haven't done any research that I've been there and I agree with you. I think it's just amazing facility and the Indians section is just really well done. Very complete to which they just reopened after remodeling it so I have been down there and I'm very impressed with it in as a matter of fact. I thought of going down there to do research for this the heartsong of charging out to to try to learn as much as I could about the wild west show but I thought that I had enough materials at hand that I didn't need to go there but still I think I regret not having looked through their material and is Cody the home of Buffalo Bill or the burial place and eventually Cody Wyoming became when he landed during the winter has come back to Cody how many years did the wild west shows? Continue, how long were they active around the globe up through World War? I really thought maybe by 1920 they were just about over. But yeah, they had a very long extended. Of time. Our guest is James Welch who's the author of the new novel The heartsong of charging elk you'll take your calls at 651-227-6000. Thanks in the metro area outside the metro 800-242-2828 and mr. Whelchel read tonight from his new novel at the open book Center in Minneapolis. Let's go back to the phones and Jackie in Eden Prairie. You're on with mr. Welch questions back the host asked you if your character was based on anyone in particular and you said a number of people but it's very yours. Is very similar to that of Black Elk in Black Elk speaks who spoke to John neidhard about his life. Are you aware of him and his story? I thought I had mentioned that during the course of this program. Yes very much. So I read Black Elk speaks other accounts of Black Elk he went to as I mentioned before he went to Great Britain was Buffalo Bill's Wild West show for Queen Victoria's Jubilee in 1887. He got stranded. He joined another Wild West show and then when the Buffalo Bills shout came back to France in 1889. He rejoined him and and Buffalo Bill wanted him to tour Europe with them, but he wanted to go home. So I did say yes. I'm very familiar with the blackout. Let's go to Mike in Roseville. You're on with James Welch the Buffalo Bill is buried in Cody, Wyoming and actually visit the grave site. That's outside of Boulder, Colorado. But you're absolutely right. I'm the professional. Let's go to let's go to glennis and nothing Paul you're wrong with James Welch the French characters on sent to you and some of the other ones and just wondering how much research you did in Marseille. And when at what point you felt like you really had gotten inside the French characters in your book and I'll hang up and listen to your answer. Thank you. Okay. Thanks for your question actually. After that first time in the book store that I went to Marseille. I with my wife we went back I think three other times because I realized that I had to keep keep doing research in Marseille to try to make the place authentic especially turn the centuries CE Port Marseille how it was a very active place and lots of things were going on and it was real busy active life. And so I wanted to capture that then and so why the character is certainly is the fishmonger and his wife and family and they're very interesting people to me because they actually make their living from the sea they and end the whole process of living off. The sea was very fascinating to me the journalist send Sarah that you mention. He is a kind of opportunistic journalist. I think this is maybe maybe a lot of turn of the century journalists were he wanted to make his career and it just so happens that the scan. Charging out when he kills the French chef phone. So I had a lot of fun dealing with French people and just trying to make the book seem very authentic and and also to tell a good story was it difficult for you as a as a US citizen to to go to France and to find your way into the to investigate the French class system that existed at the turn of the century turn of the 20th century was I got a good notion of the various aspects of French culture at that particular time. You mentioned earlier. I've been going back to France when my books come out didn't so I have a lot of really good friends there and and I really pick their brains to to see what they could tell me about that. Of history back to the phone's Beth and Edina you're on with James Welch. Taking my call I've done I've been very interested in Native American history and also history of the development of the West. I've read that number books including William Cody's to autobiography that time seemed so violent and I'm wondering are there any mental health issues that have come down to us as a result of the upheaval that the Native Americans had to go through all the violence and really personal loss that occurred on both sides have we ever really looked at that and could that help our society today? Well, I'm boy. That's that's really astute. I think you know right after the Indians were put on reservations. I think they probably last a good deal of their self confidence and the culture itself. I think it was certainly discouraged by the the white people who can't control their lives. And so I think that business have a discouraging Native Americans to to practice our Traditions are religion and so on had to have a big psychological effect on them and I think it's only become recently within say my generation and and the succeeding Generations that people have come to terms with this and that the Traditions are becoming very important to language especially is very important because in many Indian tribal groups, it's on the verge of Extinction. So all these things are coming together to make Indian people aware that they have to save their own culture. They're going to save themselves. Does that answer your question Beth? Thank you very much like you for your call. It it won't she mentioned violence and it seemed that the centerpiece of the Buffalo Bills shows was violence whether it was the the young men attacking the settlers were the soldiers or or hunting the Buffalo from the backs of their horses. Was that a big part of what attracted the other Europeans to that to these kinds of these kinds of pieces of entertainment has a violent things are today when the lion tamer goes into the lions den, you really pay attention. So I will need those kinds of Thrills in their lives are like the pageantry involved other parades were very very popular people would line up 10 Deep along the routes and Anna pageantry in the arena. There was a certain formality to it and so on and I think they like that and they liked of course they exciting thrilling things that were based on violence. One of the questions that came to my mind was how how this all eventually played out for the young man who took part in these shows. These wild west shows. What were they like what was life like for them when they had left the the circuit and they'd come back to the US and they weren't necessarily Stars again, but they were they were back perhaps most likely on a reservation. Yeah, it's really in. Read some accounts that people have come back and they adapt surprisingly easily. You know what I mean? That was a very exciting time in their lives and they traveled a lot but when they came home supposedly, hopefully they had little money in their pockets. They might buy some cattle or or whatever and then they raise their families and and they make the transition very easily, which is interesting to me there been very few exceptions to that rule. As far as I can tell we have time I think for one more phone call. Let's go to Marion in St. Paul with James Welch at the beginning of his program. You talked about Indians in Europe. I found it was born in 1903 in Denmark can come out there so that produce and he and his friend and he's been his to go into 1/10. Would that be possible in 1903? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 1887 all the way to 1918 are so don't show us toward Europe Toad and and quite often and there were some really kind of sleazy little this doesn't sound exactly like a wild west show doesn't know know how these were really low budget operations. And so possibly the only Indian connection would be an Indian would be put on display and that sounds like put your father may have seen or perhaps someone who was claimed to have been a Native American when in fact it may have been someone not even a US citizen or a continent is the author of the heart song from charging elk just publish this month and mr. Welch reads tonight at the open book Center in Minneapolis missed you while so thanks for joining us this morning and this hour of midday. It's been my pleasure. I've enjoyed it. Can you tell us? About the other half a minute or so. We have left. What are you working on now? What will your readers see next? Well, actually, I think I'm working on a sequel to this book and I'd like to bring him this book ends in 1905. I would like to bring him up to the Jose 1970 through his ancestors. Okay, James Welch the author of The heartsong of charging elk also killing Custer fools Crow and other novels. Thanks for joining us and good luck with your book tour. Thank you James Welch on this hour of. Midday. You're listening to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio.