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MIKE MULCAHY: With news from Minnesota Public Radio, I'm Mike Mulcahy. The US Supreme Court debated today whether eight Chippewa Indian bands still have the right to hunt and fish in Central Minnesota without state regulation. At issue is an 1850 order by President Zachary Taylor that told the tribes to leave their land and declared an end to their unlimited hunting and fishing rights.

Lawyers for the tribe and the Justice Department say Taylor's order was invalid because the tribes were never moved. They say the tribes can't feed their families adequately or carry out their traditions if they're subject to state bag limits and seasons on the 13 million acres of land. That did not satisfy several justices, though.

Justice Antonin Scalia said the original treaty clearly gave the president the power to terminate the hunting and fishing rights. Another justice said President Franklin Roosevelt wrote a letter in which he recognized that the Chippewas hunting and fishing rights had ended. If they win, the Mille Lacs Band could be entitled to up to half the harvest from Lake Mille Lacs. Lower courts have sided with the band.

Two construction workers were killed this morning after a large tool bin fell from a crane in downtown Minneapolis at a building under construction. Police said no other injuries were reported at the Piper Jaffray Office Tower project. John Griffith, the Vice President for Ryan, the Minneapolis company in charge of the project, says a tool bin about the size of a desk broke loose from a tower crane.

JOHN GRIFFITH: Think of it as a bucket for hoisting heavy tools from floor to floor. And the crane lifts that and acts as a vertical transportation for those heavier items as workers need them at different levels.

MIKE MULCAHY: Holes are visible in, at least, five floors of the structure. The bin ended up on the ground floor. One witness says the crash sounded like an explosion. About a hundred workers were on the Piper Jaffray site today. Usually, there's 200 to 300 workers on the site of the 30-story office tower that is under construction.

The bus ride between Minneapolis and Saint Paul will take a little less time with completion of an exclusive bus lane and entrance ramp on Interstate 94. Metro Transit spokesman Bob Gibbons says more than $7 million in federal taxes is helping pay for construction. Gibbons says the money is being used to expand shoulders along Interstate 94, and to build a bus-only freeway entrance.

BOB GIBBONS: Right now, our I-94 buses that drop off at Snelling to pick up customers get involved in a large queue of traffic during rush hour headed toward Saint Paul. We'll be able to bypass all of that with the creation of this bus-only freeway access. So that one is already underway.

MIKE MULCAHY: Gibbons says the money will also be used to build new bus shelters and put in better lighting along University Avenue between the two cities. The weather for today couldn't be nicer. Again, partly sunny to sunny skies around the state. Highs from the upper 30s to the lower 60s. We could see another record high in the Twin Cities area. Right now, sunny around the state, Rochester has 55 degrees, and the Twin Cities also 55. That's news, I'm Mike Mulcahy.

GARY EICHTEN: Thank you, Mike. Nine minutes now past 12 o'clock. Programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Standard Heating & Air Conditioning, the Twin Cities home comfort experts for 69 years featuring York Heating and Cooling Products.

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Good afternoon. Welcome back to Midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Eichten. Glad you could join us. The second step in the largest construction project in the history of space exploration is scheduled for tomorrow at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida at about 3 o'clock our time tomorrow morning.

NASA plans to launch the first US International Space Station flight with Minneapolis native Bob Cabana commanding the mission. Colonel Cabana is making his fourth spaceflight, his second as a commander. NPR reporter Mark Zdechlik interviewed Colonel Cabana at the Johnson Space Center in Houston for our Voices of Minnesota series, and we'll be broadcasting that interview later this hour.

But first of all, a report on the International Space Station mission itself. Commander Bob Cabana and the other astronauts aboard the space shuttle Endeavor will be conducting a US component to a Russian component which was sent into orbit a few weeks ago. Ultimately, the orbiting facility is supposed to be as roomy as a 747 with enough living space for seven astronauts. National Public Radio's Richard Harris reports.

RICHARD HARRIS: The launch back on November 20 sounded just like any other. The hardware in question had been paid for by US taxpayers, and a commentator from NASA even narrated the final countdown on the space agency's regular television feed.

SPEAKER 1: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. Coming up on main engine start.

RICHARD HARRIS: But the program originated from Russia's launch facility in Kazakhstan.

SPEAKER 1: Main engine start, six engines up and running, and lift off. Lift off of the proton rocket and the Zarya control module, the International Space Station is under way.

RICHARD HARRIS: NASA Administrator Dan Goldin even showed up for the post-launch news conference at the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

DAN GOLDIN: We only have 44 launches to go, and about 1,000 hours of spacewalks, and countless problems, and countless issues. But because of the trust and mutual respect between the United States, and Russian, and European, and Japanese, and Canadian space program, the International Space Station is going to be a reality.

RICHARD HARRIS: Russian and American hardware will form the core of the space station. With financial help from the United States, the Russian space program is contributing the critical parts that will keep the station in orbit and pointing in the right direction. NASA is providing a laboratory and lots of other structural elements, including hardware that will allow the European Space Agency and Japan to connect their own substantial labs.

Once all the trusses are connected and the solar panels are unfurled, the space station will have a bigger footprint than the US Capitol building, and the project will take years to complete. But NASA Program Manager Randy Brinkley says the agency is ready.

RANDY BRINKLEY: Today at the space station processing facility at Kennedy Space center, we have over 400,000 pounds of flight hardware in its final stages of testing and launch preparations, which represent about 80% of the total hardware that's being developed for the International Space Station in the US segment.

RICHARD HARRIS: When asked why NASA is building the space station, NASA's Catherine Clark said it's for all the research that will be conducted on board. Thus far, US researchers have had to rely on the space shuttle, which can only remain in orbit for a week or two.

CATHERINE CLARK: Imagine taking one of the, I don't know, finest cancer research centers in the United States and telling the scientists who work in it that they could only have access to their laboratories for about nine days every two years. The field wouldn't progress very far. And that's the kind of access we've had to space in order to do research. And so we finally will be getting a real laboratory just like we have on the Earth. It's the first time we're going to be able to really see what can happen with space research. Everything else has been just a teaser, I heard one of the astronauts say the other day.

RICHARD HARRIS: But that laboratory in space is extremely expensive. The US hardware alone costs over $20 billion, and NASA plans to spend more money than the entire National Science Foundation budget every year to build and maintain the station. John Pike at the Federation of American Scientists says nobody would dare suggest that the scientific results will repay that huge investment.

JOHN PIKE: They might be getting a little science done on the side, but the reason the White House is interested in it and the Congress supports it has a lot to do with politics and not that much to do with science.

RICHARD HARRIS: Manned spaceflight has always been about politics, Pike notes, starting with the Space Race and the Apollo missions to the moon, and the International Space Station is no different. That was true even when President Reagan first proposed building a space station, which was supposed to cost just $8 billion back in 1983.

JOHN PIKE: Ronald Reagan liked the space station because it was going to be bigger than the Russian Space Station. Bill Clinton likes the station because the Russians are working with us. George Bush had a hard time explaining his Space Station project because it was too late to be competing with the Soviet Union that had just flopped over, and he thought too soon to be cooperating with the Russians. He tried to sell it on the basis of science, and the thing nearly got canceled.

RICHARD HARRIS: In fact, the station survived by a single vote in Congress. And while the station's political shape was being debated, so too was its physical makeup. It has changed form more than a dozen times over the years. At one point, a Congressional subcommittee even got deeply involved in the design. Howard McCurdy is a space expert at American University.

HOWARD MCCURDY: The original space station, as it was conceived in 1983 and 1984, was a multifunctional space station. In addition to having science capability, it also had a modest satellite servicing capability. It included co-orbiting platforms. It could be used as an observatory for both ground observations and astronomical observations. It was thought of, as it developed in its later configurations, as a stepping stone to the moon and to mars. So it was a multifunctional facility. And as the costs grew, what fell off were many of those functions.

RICHARD HARRIS: What's left now is mostly a lab to study materials and life sciences in zero gravity, and most of that research is geared toward learning more about keeping human beings in space. From NASA's perspective, the challenge is learning how to build big things in space, again, with an eye toward future explorations. McCurdy says, as long as everything is going according to plan, the operation doesn't have a lot of public appeal.

HOWARD MCCURDY: The Space Station is the technological equivalent of building an interstate highway system. And I guess it's interesting, especially if it goes through your back yard, but it's not something you go out and watch all the time. What's interesting about an interstate highway system is that you can take a vacation on it or you can drive someplace on it where you couldn't go before. And that's the nature of a Space Station. It's a facility.

RICHARD HARRIS: McCurdy hopes this facility will eventually lead to something people can get excited about, such as space hotels, moon bases, and manned exploration of Mars. The station makes the most sense to people who see space as our destiny.

HOWARD MCCURDY: As Jim Benson, the Head of Space Development, has said, if we don't drown in our own crap, we're going to get whacked by an asteroid. So if we're to survive as a long-lived technological species, we're going to have to move into space. How we're going to move into space is still an open issue. I don't think we can anticipate all the different things we'll learn as we do move into space, but we're going to become a space-faring species.

So this is an essential step. I wish it hadn't taken so long. I wish it hadn't cost so much. I wish the space station had a larger crew, and I wish it had more functions on it. But I guess this is the way you learn with these little tiny steps.

RICHARD HARRIS: When all is said and done, this particular step will cost a total of nearly $100 billion, assuming there are no costly disasters along the way. And station supporters hope that the rationale of international cooperation survives for the life of the project as well. Richard Harris, NPR News, Washington.

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GARY EICHTEN: The Commander of the first US International Space Station flight is Minnesota Native Bob Cabana. He is a Marine Colonel who attended the US Naval Academy after graduating from Minneapolis Washburn High School back in 1967. Cabana served as a Naval aviator for several years, and was selected by NASA for its astronaut program in 1985.

Minnesota Public Radio's Mark Zdechlik traveled to Houston two weeks ago to interview Colonel Cabana for our Voices of Minnesota series. They spoke at the Johnson Space Center, focusing on the space program in general, and specifically on the preparations for tomorrow's shuttle flight to build the space station.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Today, we spent the whole day over in mockups over in Building 9, an exact replica of the space shuttle and the space station, at least, the parts that we're going to have up there, practicing ingress into the space station, moving all the equipment that we have to get from the orbiter into the space station and set everything up and transfer equipment back and forth. And the process of hooking up all the ducting and going through the hatches and turning on the lights and hooking up the early communication system.

And so a really busy timeline. And that's going to be days 8 and 9 on the flight. Day eight we go into the space station, and then day 9 we'll exit the space station. We've been training for this flight for two years. We got assigned a year ahead of time because the complexity of the space station missions, we needed to get assigned a little earlier. A normal assignment is like about a year ahead of time to train for a mission. So with the slips and everything, it's ended up that we've had two years training for this flight, and we're ready to go.

MARK ZDECHLIK: This is being characterized as the beginning of a new era for the space program. And the last shuttle that went up, obviously, got a huge amount of attention with Senator Glenn. But President Clinton is saying that this is going to be the beginning of the next part of the space program, not only for the United States, but for the world. How do you feel about that?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Absolutely correct. I see the space station as a stepping stone to the future, to going back to the moon and on to Mars and beyond. We're going to leave the confines of low Earth orbit, and space station is our stepping stone for that.

And I think more than the science that we're going to be doing, I think what is important is the aspect of international cooperation. We've got the Russians as partners, the European Space Agency and all its nations, Canada, Japan, Brazil, right now 16 nations involved in this project. And when you consider the scope, I mean, this is a huge technical project that's never been attempted on this scale before with this many different partners participating.

And when you look at that, you look at the cultures that we're integrating, and the equipment that's coming from all over to be assembled up there in space, it's a pretty challenging program. But more than that, it's a step at the way exploration is going to be in the future. All of us working together for the benefit of all.

MARK ZDECHLIK: And the shuttle flight you're commanding will bring, actually, the first component of the space station on a shuttle up to space.

ROBERT D. CABANA: We're going to lay the cornerstone for the space station. We're taking up Node 1, Unity. And I think unity is a very appropriate name because it's unity, all of us working together, and Unity is going to hold all the pieces of the space station together.

And we'll be attaching it to Zarya, which means sunrise in Russian, the functional cargo block, and joining those two pieces, uniting them in low Earth orbit. And it's really exciting. It's an extremely challenging mission, but all the hard work, It's very rewarding. When we get done, it's going to be something that we can be extremely proud of.

And I say we, when I say we, I don't mean just the crew. I mean the whole NASA International Space Station team because we're all working together on this. And like anything else, a team working together can accomplish a whole lot more than any given person or individual. And, boy, flying in space and this effort is definitely a team effort.

MARK ZDECHLIK: The administrator of NASA, I think, characterized this as a critical first step for the space station, the mission that you will be commanding in. You'll have to negotiate the shuttle to within some incredible close range to the--

ROBERT D. CABANA: You don't have to put any more pressure on me, Mark. I mean, the whole future of our space program rests on this mission, so. But that's OK.

MARK ZDECHLIK: But some people get nervous if they have to park the pontoon.

ROBERT D. CABANA: We're going to be rendezvousing with Zarya in space at 200 miles above the earth. And Zarya weighs about 45,000 pounds and it's about 40 feet long, and Unity is about 25,000 pounds, and it'll be attached to the orbiter at the orbital docking station in the Payload Bay. And I'll fly Zarya down to within about 3 feet of the space shuttle arm. And then Nancy Currie, our arm operator, is going to reach over and grab it.

And what's unique about this rendezvous is that we won't be able to see it out the windows. It disappears behind the node when we fly it down into the payload bay, so we're strictly relying on camera views in order to fly proximity operations on it, essentially fly formation on it. We're both going 17,500 miles an hour, and we're just matching it in space.

MARK ZDECHLIK: There's a lot of excitement, but I would imagine there's anxiety associated with this, too, because a lot is resting on you folks.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Oh yeah. We got out of one of our SIMs. When we do it in the simulator, it's just like doing it for real except we're not floating on the flight deck. And, I mean, I've gotten done with some of those SIMs and it's just been like, [SIGHS], wow. You know what I mean? You're really pumped. It's like you're doing it for real even though it's a simulation. And yeah, it really gets your pulse rate going. You're paying keen attention to everything that's going on.

MARK ZDECHLIK: And the module that you'll be bringing up is really one of the key parts of the space station to which other parts will be connected. It is the center.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Yeah. And, well, this is a really simplistic view, but it always works as a good analogy. Most folks played with tinker toys when they were kids. And the Russians are launching one of the sticks, and we're taking up one of those wrong connector pieces and we're going to put it on the other end. And so everything else connects to that wrong connector piece.

Eventually, a big truss structure is going to attach to the top of it where all the solar arrays are going to end up. The US Laboratory is going to attach to it, living quarters are going to attach to it, and it'll have a docking station for a while as the space station grows. So multiple modules will end up being attached. And then on the other end, of course, the functional cargo block will be attached to which the future Russian components will be attached as it grows on that side. So it's the center piece of the space station to which everything else attaches.

MARK ZDECHLIK: How exciting is it for you to see this finally come together? You've been talking about it for years.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Oh, for years. When I came to NASA in 1985, I thought we were going to have this thing off and going and almost done by 1992. And here it is, 1998. And to see it finally come to fruition, it's extremely rewarding. Science, we have so much to learn and on all different aspects. If you look at the way science is done in a laboratory-- another analogy I like to use.

If you told a scientist, OK, I'm going to give you two weeks in a laboratory, here's your equipment, and I want to a record-breaking science discovery at the end of those two weeks, they'd laugh at you because science isn't done like that. But that's how we're doing science in space right now. We send up a spacelab or a Spacehab mission on the space shuttle, and we spend two weeks in space doing science, and we learn an awful lot, but it's very difficult.

You take the results of those experiments, come back to earth, analyze them, and then you decide, OK, what are we going to change? How are we going to this different the next time we're up? And it may be months to years before that experiment gets back in space again to see the modifications.

Science in a laboratory is done 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. And you make modifications real time. You look at your experiment, you see how it's working, you modify it, you see the effects of your modification, and you continue on. And that's what space station is going to give us. It's going to give us a world-class, microgravity laboratory that's up there in space 24 hours a day, 365 days a year where we can do science. And so that's exciting.

MARK ZDECHLIK: You've been living and breathing this for the past couple of years. Do you think most people in the United States and all over the world, I suppose, because this is a global effort, are aware of the importance of this and the idea that this will be four times the size of Mir, which is by far the largest space station that's been up so far, that it is really a leap beyond what has been available before?

ROBERT D. CABANA: I don't think folks are as aware as they could be. I think we're doing our best to make them aware. I get out and talk to the public a fair amount, and they are extremely excited about America's space program and what we're doing, and they want to see us doing it and fully support it. And folks say, well, how come you don't hear more, or see more, there isn't more publicity or whatever?

And I think America expects NASA to be exploring. And because we're doing what America expects, there isn't a great hue and cry to do more. I think if we weren't exploring in space, if we weren't flying space shuttles, if we weren't building a space station, if we weren't sending probes out to explore our known world, then you'd hear a hue and cry from America saying, why aren't we doing this? But I think because we're doing what's expected of us, there maybe isn't as much-- it isn't quite as much as in the forefront as you might think.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Isn't it, though, coming more into the forefront? Especially recently, you have John Glenn going up into space. Now you have the space station being put together and claims that the space station might be the brightest star in the sky now. So anyone can walk out in their backyard as this thing is being put together and look up at the right time and see it go by.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Sure. I think we've definitely raised the awareness of the general public on what we're doing in space, and I think it's great. I think folks ought to be aware and involved because this is our future. I mean, we're a nation of explorers. Exploring is a part of us. It's what's settled our country. We need to continue to explore. And I think that the space station is a stepping stone to even greater exploration.

I think we've got a lot to learn yet on long-duration spaceflight and its effects on the human body. I think there's a lot of great science we can do. But I also think this is a building process. We're going to get up there. We're going to learn. For one thing, we're going to learn how to cooperate and operate with a lot of different cultures and people, and then we're going to go on beyond that and do even greater things.

MARK ZDECHLIK: For many astronauts, one time in space is the time of their life and they won't go back again, and a second time is incredible. For you, it's your fourth time. What are you looking forward to about getting back up into space?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Well, I'm looking forward to building a space station. I've been extremely fortunate. I had three great missions before this that was each rewarding in its own way, and this is an exceptionally rewarding mission. It's definitely the most challenging of the ones that I've flown just from all that's expected and all that we have to do in the time that we're up there. I'm looking forward to a lot of things.

First off, time on orbit is extremely expensive, and they pack our day. It's very hard to find a free minute because there's so much that you have to get done, and you want to make sure you do it all and you do it right. But we are so fortunate to have the opportunity to do this. And a lot of times, it's easy to get up there and get involved in what you have to do and not appreciate what a unique opportunity have and how special it really is, and how fortunate you are to have it.

And I always tell first-time flyers that you have to take some time for yourself, just a few minutes every now and then, and just stop what you're doing and look out the window and appreciate how special it is. And don't take a picture of it. I've got some great pictures from space, and I've shown slides to a lot of folks, and they all think they're fantastic.

But they're not as good as what you see with the human eye. It's even better. If you take a picture of it, you'll be disappointed when you get home because it's not going to look the same. So I always tell them, make a memory and plant that in your brain, and save it, and cherish it. And I've got one from each of my flights, and I'm really looking forward to getting another one from this mission.

GARY EICHTEN: Minneapolis Native and NASA Astronaut Colonel Bob Cabana speaking with Minnesota Public Radio's Mark Zdechlik as part of our Voices of Minnesota series. Now, weather cooperating, Colonel Cabana will command the space shuttle Endeavor, which is scheduled to be launched in the wee hours tomorrow morning, and will carry the main component of the International Space Station into orbit. Colonel Cabana told Mark how astronauts prepare for a launch and what it takes to be an astronaut.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Usually, the night before a launch, it's the last time you see your spouse or significant other. And that's always an emotional time and it's a time to say goodbye because you're not going to get a chance to see him again after. And then it's back to crew quarters in time for sleep.

I have never had a problem sleeping. It's a real gift God gave me. If I need a nap, I take one, or if I have to go to sleep at night, I just say, I'm going to sleep, and I fall asleep. So I've always gotten a good night's sleep before any launch.

Once you turn in, you wake up that morning, and it's a busy day. You get up, and the first thing you do is go down for your breakfast. Head on down to the dining room where they've got the crew breakfast set up that everybody sees on TV. And so everybody is real well-mannered and smiling for the cameras as they pan through there, and then the cameramen get out of there, and then you really do eat.

Eating varies. People eat different things. I remember my first flight, one of the crew members who had not flown before decided he was going to have a big breakfast. And he had steak, and eggs, and he had hot sauce on his eggs, and he had toast, and coffee, and orange juice. And the commander looked over at him and he says, ah, going for color and distance I see.

There's a lot of folks that when they get up in space, they get a little queasy and don't feel real good, and a lot of folks, it has no effect on them. But I normally eat a light breakfast. I'll have an English muffin. And I enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning, but when you're sitting on that launch pad lying on your back for three hours prior to launch, you don't want to drink a lot of coffee.

And then it's back to your room to get suited up in your long underwear for launch. And we wear a liquid cooling garment. It's similar to the same suit that the astronauts wear when they go on spacewalks, but it's essentially a heavy, long underwear with tubes sewn into it that cold water can circulate through to cool us when we're inside our launch entry suits.

And then we go into the briefing room, and we get our weather brief for launch. And we find out how the weather is at our abort sites overseas for our flight. Our prime abort site is Zaragoza, Spain, and we have Moron, Spain, and Ben Guerir in Morocco. And you get the weather there. You get the weather at the Cape. You look at your once around abort weather if you would have to just spend one orbit in space and come home for a problem, and you find out all the latest status on the orbiter and its systems.

And once that's complete, then it's into the suit room to get suited up. Once suited, the crew heads out of the suit room down the elevator to the Astrovan for the ride out to the pad. And there's no spare time. Everything moves along on schedule pretty good. And we rehearse all this a couple of weeks prior to launch. In the Astrovan, it's a police escort out to the pad.

And most launches are early morning launches, so you get out to the pad at like 3:00, 4:00 in the morning. And it's totally black with these big xenon lights shining on it, these big spotlights. And all the support structures are rolled back, and it's just-- it's unbelievable. It's awesome seeing it sitting there on the pad ready to go.

And the first thing you notice when you get to the elevator to ride up is that there's nobody else out there. Normally, the pad is just a flurry of activity, people working on it all the time. And there you are at the base of the pad, and you're the only ones out there in the suit techs who are going to strap you in. And you get on the elevator and ride it up to the 195-foot level and get out and walk across the gangway to the white room that's hooked up to the hatch of the orbiter.

And the commander is the first one in. So you don't have a whole lot of time to think about what you're going to do. When I flew as pilot, he's second person in. You got a chance to stand there and look at the vehicle before you actually get inside. And it's amazing. I mean, here it is. It's a 0-dark-30. It's a little cool out. It's venting and it's creaking because it's fueled, and it's like it's alive. You can hear it, and feel it, and see it, and it's just-- it's amazing.

And to think that in three hours you're going to be inside there blasting off into space. I mean, if ever I have any uneasiness about a space flight, that's when it is. When you really come to grips with what it is you're going to do and you see that rocket all fueled and ready to go. It's awesome.

But once I'm strapped in, it's just like being in the simulator. I'm very much at ease. I've done it before. I know what to expect. And I'm just doing my job and making sure I do it right and don't make any mistakes. By now you've done everything, you've got everything powered up, you're ready to go, and there's only a few more things that need to get done to prepare the ship for launch. And we only have about a 10-minute launch window to rendezvous with the FGB, so we've got to have everything right when we come out and are ready to go there.

At eight minutes, the pilot connects the fuel cells, the essential bus to the fuel cells so that the shuttle onboard electrical system is powering everything, at six minutes, he prepares the APUs for start, and then at five minutes to go, he starts the auxiliary power units that provide hydraulic power to the shuttle's flight controls and gimbaling the main engines.

In about three and a half minutes, the main engines gimbal and go through a profile to make sure that they're all tracking right and everything works. And you can feel that in the orbiter when they slam into their stops, the whole orbiter shakes as the main engines gimbal. They're in a big ball socket that's driven with these huge hydraulic rams that position the engines so that the thrust goes in the right direction because there's some steering involved. It doesn't just go straight up in the air. There's some maneuvering that needs to be done.

And by moving the main engines in the proper direction, essentially gimbaling them about a point, rotating them, you can direct the thrust in the right direction. So they run through a profile on the ground to make sure that all the controls are working correctly before we start the engines. At two minutes, we close our VISORS and turn on our oxygen flow. At 30 seconds, 31 seconds to go, then the onboard computers take over. And when you come to 31 seconds, you're going unless something goes wrong. And then at six seconds prior to lift off, the main engines start. And then at t minus 0, the solids light.

And this is where any similarity between a simulation and the real thing ends. When those solids lights, you know you're going. And all the pops and crackles you hear outside when you're there, you can hear those in the cockpit. And you're shaking and vibrating, and the gauges are hard to read, and you're being pushed back in your seat, and it's just an-- it's an awesome acceleration.

There you are. You're lifting off now, and you're just monitoring all the gauges, making sure everything is working right, that the onboard guidance is controlling properly. You roll over to get the correct insertion plane that you're going to and start steering toward it. But two minutes into the flight, you feel the thrust tail off from the solid rocket motors, and then they separate away and there's a bang and a flash as the set motors fire, and you see a flash out the forward window.

And then it's just as smooth as can be on the three main engines. All the shaking and vibrating is pretty much stopped. You're out of most of the Earth's atmosphere now. When you're really accelerating down the Earth's atmosphere, you can actually hear it. It's, I mean, [HUMMING]. You can just hear it rushing by and feel it. And then as you get out of the atmosphere, the sound starts diminishing because there's no air to carry all that noise from the main engines and solid rocket motors back to the cockpit, and it gets smoother.

The solids fall away at two minutes, a little over two minutes, and you're doing about 5,500 feet per second at that point. About 8,000 feet per second, you can't come back to Florida anymore if you have a problem. You either have to continue to an abort site up the East Coast, or over to Africa, or continue on to orbit. And you just progressively keep going faster.

You could accelerate to orbital velocity right down on the surface of the earth, but you'd burn up because you'd be going so fast in all the atmosphere, you'd get too hot. So the shuttle goes up above the atmosphere, and then you see it start pitching over. Once you're above the air, then you can accelerate without all the heating, the friction from the air molecules, and we just go on out to our orbital velocity, 17,500 miles an hour.

MARK ZDECHLIK: What is your physical state at that point?

ROBERT D. CABANA: You're feeling great. I mean, the last minute, it's really hard to breathe because you're at 3G's acceleration. It's like somebody's really heavy sitting on your chest. And then at main engine cut off, the acceleration stops instantly. In fact, it feels like you're in a freight train that just got rear ended. It's like a chunk almost. You can just feel the metal slam into itself as you stop. It's so abrupt.

You really haven't stopped. You just stopped accelerating. You're going really fast. And then everything's floating. And you look out, you feel great. You're strapped in your seat, and you're looking out, and you're just-- it's great to make it to orbit. And then you get right on the checklist and start making sure everything is right. That you've got the right altitude, that you're in the right orbit, and you don't have any malfunctions that you have to take care of.

And once you get the initial-- that everything went well and you had the right velocity and everything is good, then things settle down a little bit. And you just slowly start going through the procedures until you get to your OMS burn, the Orbital Maneuvering System engines that circularize your orbit. The main engines, if you just flew those up, you wouldn't be in orbit. You'd end up coming back on the other side of the Earth.

So when you get to the highest point of your orbit, they shut off at 60 nautical miles, but they're going to continue to carry us up to an altitude of about 160 nautical miles or so. At that point, you burn the orbital maneuvering system engines to give you a little more velocity to circularize your orbit so that you stay 160 nautical miles circular above the Earth.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Then you're in space. That's just home now for eight days, or?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Going to space is a lot like-- we got a lot of folks that like to go camping. In Minnesota, a lot of folks go out in their RVs. And it's like taking your Winnebago on the road only you're in a spaceship. And you know how it is, there are some folks that go out, and you'd go camping with them and you'd say, how can these people survive? I mean, everything's a screw and disorganized, and it's no fun going camping with them. Now, they might be having fun, but you'd say, how can we accomplish what it is we're going to do on this trip the way things are?

Or it's like folks that go out on a sailboat. We got a lot of boaters back there in Minnesota. A lot of folks go out on the Great Lakes, on big boats, or some of the bigger lakes in Minneapolis. But if you go cruising on the Great Lakes and you're out there for a week or so at a time, that's what it's like to be on the space shuttle. You got to keep everything shipshape and neat. When you use something, you want to put it away when you're done with it so you can find it again, for one thing, if somebody else needs it. So it doesn't just float off and get lost.

If you make a mess, you want to clean up after yourself. You don't want to have-- nobody likes to live in a mess. You got to keep yourself clean. Nobody wants to spend a week or two with somebody in an enclosed environment that hasn't washed up and doesn't smell nice, so normal hygiene. But it's a lot like that.

So it's just a matter of planning your day, having everything shipshape. When you get up in the morning, you put your beds away. When you go to bed at night, you break them out and hang your coat on the wall, sleeping bag. So it's just-- yeah, it's a lot like going camping or going sailing, going on a trip.

MARK ZDECHLIK: As a commander of the mission, what duties and tasks do you have that are separate and apart from everyone else, and what responsibilities?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Well, overall, I'm responsible for the safe conduct and successful conduct of this mission. So just making sure that the crew does all that's-- they've been tasked to do, and that they do it properly, which is no small feat.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Are you running around reminding people to get things done?

ROBERT D. CABANA: No, I don't have to do that. I've got the most outstanding crew you could possibly want. They're so talented and motivated that they need very little supervision at all.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Obviously, it's a tremendous opportunity. But are there difficulties with being in such close quarters with people and being so heavily, constantly scrutinized? Everything you're doing is being observed probably by how many hundred people.

ROBERT D. CABANA: When we go to bed at night, there's always time to find a little private time to yourself. When we shut the orbiter down and we say, OK, we're going to bed now, Houston. We'll talk to you in the morning when the wake up music comes up. Not everybody goes to bed right away, and there's always a little time. Most folks don't need a full eight hours of sleep, and I think a lot of folks use that time to just look out the window to appreciate where we are. And there's always a few fun games that you play as an astronaut in weightlessness.

MARK ZDECHLIK: With this heightened awareness and interest in the space program will come more lunch boxes, I suppose. And my 2-year-old eats out of a space shuttle dish, and more kids talking about wanting to become astronauts and this sort of thing. What would you recommend to somebody who is interested in the space program?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Be persistent. Don't give up. Be interested in math, science, and engineering. I mean, first off, it just goes without saying. You have to do well in school. Don't be a slacker. Work up to your abilities. Everybody's got more abilities than they probably use. But pay attention in school. Work hard and do your best. That's all anybody can ask you is doing your best. So do your best. Give it an honest effort.

And if you want to be an astronaut, do your best, but focus that in a technical field, math, engineering, or one of the physical sciences. Go on to college and get an advanced degree. To be a pilot astronaut, you have to have a technical degree and a thousand hours of pilot in command time in high-performance jet aircraft. And they say test pilot experience is highly desirable. We've never picked a pilot astronaut yet that wasn't a graduate of one of the military test pilot schools.

For the mission specialist astronauts, it's a technical degree and three years of experience in your field. And you can substitute a master's degree for one year of experience, and a doctorate for another two. But all the mission specialists have, at least, a master's and most of them have their doctorate as well as experience in their field. And that's what's required in order to be competitive, you have to be able to pass the physical. But it's essentially the same as a physical for the military to be a pilot. For the mission specialists, their requirements aren't as stringent as they are for the pilots.

And then, as I said, be persistent. There are very few astronauts that got picked on their first try. I got picked on my second. Jim Newman got picked on his fourth try, who's on my crew. So if it's something you want to do, don't give up. But also, do something that interests you. Don't do things just because you think they're going to make you be an astronaut or help you to be an astronaut because you probably won't do well at them. So you ought to be doing something that you enjoy.

And then if you're not selected, at least, you're doing something you like and you can still contribute. We've got an awful lot of folks that haven't made it into the astronaut program but are extremely gifted and are contributing on an everyday basis to the exploration of space, and they really enjoy what they're doing. And that's the best part about being here at NASA is all the fine people you get to work with.

And astronauts may be a visible part of that, but it truly is a team effort. And we sure couldn't do our job-- I mean, there's a lot of folks behind us supporting us and contributing. And I know the folks down here, they're young, they're enthusiastic, they're really excited about space exploration, and they want to go back to the moon, and they want to go to Mars, and they want to be a part of that.

MARK ZDECHLIK: As a member of this team, this close-knit community, what is frustrating? What is it that the general public doesn't get about NASA, and what's going on here?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Well, we can do anything. If you ask us to do it and support us, we'll do it. I know these folks down here, and they are really good. If Congress tells us, NASA, I want you to go to Mars and we're going to support you, and go do it, these guys can do it.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Is there a feeling here that more interest, heightened interest, a return of interest to the space program might mean more financial support to or likely will mean more financial support, and is that a reason to be optimistic around here?

ROBERT D. CABANA: I don't know, Mark. I think we have to use the money that we're given very well. We have to do well with it. And I don't think we're necessarily going to get more money. Our economy is good right now, but I think folks expect us to do a lot with what we're given. So I think it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we're not wasting the taxpayers dollar, and that they're getting a good return on the investment in NASA.

And I think they are. I think we've worked very hard in all our programs to deliver on what we've been entrusted with. I think we're doing a lot of good things. I think there's more we can do. I think when the time is right and we're told to do something that is going to require more, that if we're frugal and have been delivering all along on what we've been asked to do in little things, that when big projects come along, we'll be entrusted with more responsibility to go off and execute a big project.

MARK ZDECHLIK: What do you think your personal future will be with the space program? Is this your last time in space?

ROBERT D. CABANA: Oh, shoot. It's like I told my wife. Well, Nancy, just one more. And she says, Bob, that's what you always say, just one more. And I haven't said this is my last slide. I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see. It could be. It might not be. This is something that I really enjoyed doing, and I feel I can contribute.

Ever since I was a little kid, I just wanted to fly airplanes, and I feel so fortunate to have been able to do that most of my life. I hate to think of not being able to do it. I really enjoy working here at NASA. I think what we're doing is critical to the future of our country, and not just our country, the world. Exploring is important and learning is important, and that's what being here is all about, learning what you don't know. And if I can contribute to that, even in some form not as an astronaut, that's probably what I'll end up doing.

MARK ZDECHLIK: And there really is a sense that this space station is not just the next flash in the pan for NASA. That this is really going to be the stepping stone that is going to allow this agency along with others like it all over the world to go further and to go beyond and to move off.

ROBERT D. CABANA: Well, Mark, there's a lot of critics of the space station program, and I think they're wrong. I mean, me personally, I do think it's important. And like I said before, it's not just the science that's important. I mean, we'll learn, the science will come. I think it's the international cooperative effort that is really key. If we can overcome the differences that we have here on Earth and work together in space, maybe that'll carry over down here on earth, too.

I really believe that someday we're going to go beyond the confines of Earth's gravity for long periods of time and really explore beyond our known world. And when we do that, it's not something that should be done as a single nation. It ought to be something that's done in a united effort that has benefit to come back and provide information to everyone to benefit all of us down here.

And I really see the space station as a stepping stone in that international cooperative effort of the future. I think if we can learn to do this in low Earth orbit, 200 miles above the Earth and build a project of this magnitude and work together up there, that it'll carry over to bigger and better things.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Will people will be watching the space station very closely, people that might normally just maybe catch the shuttle going up on CNN?

ROBERT D. CABANA: I don't know. I hope so. I think it's extremely interesting. But I think there's a lot of folks out there that'll tune in every now and then and see what's going on. There's a lot of folks that will follow it over the internet through all the various computer sites, I mean, real time. And there'll be data coming down and news from the space station, and you can go to the NASA websites right now and learn all about its construction, and the progress, and all that's going on.

So we have so many people that have access now to the internet through computers that really follow up on that kind of stuff. I think there'll be a lot of interest in it that way. And I think as we progress, I think folks will be watching it being built in and seeing how it goes. Because as challenging as this first flight is, there are flights down the road that are even more challenging, and it's quite an adventure.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Do people, for this mission, feel it all like they're in the shadows of the John Glenn flight?

ROBERT D. CABANA: No, I don't. I think it's really neat all the interest in space that his flight generated. He's quite a guy. I really enjoyed talking with him on the occasions that I've had the opportunity to do that. I think that if it stimulates the interest again in space exploration and its importance, I think that's outstanding.

GARY EICHTEN: NASA Astronaut Bob Cabana, the Commander of the Space Shuttle Endeavor, which is scheduled to launch early tomorrow morning. He spoke to Minnesota Public Radio's Mark Zdechlik down at the Johnson Space Center in Houston as part of our Voices of Minnesota Series. Colonel Cabana credits his Minnesota roots for much of his success, and he says while his job has taken him far away from Minnesota, the state will always be important to him.

ROBERT D. CABANA: I miss Minnesota. I miss four seasons. I miss cold weather. I miss being on my grandparents' farm, which isn't my grandparents' farm anymore, but I miss that. I was really lucky as a kid growing up. But I just-- I think I was really blessed growing up in Minnesota.

I got to go to school in Minneapolis in a great public school system, and I got to spend my summers on a farm learning an awful lot about what it is to have to have some mechanical aptitude, and be independent, and be trusted on your own to go out and mow an 80-acre field by yourself when you're 13 years old. But I think folks up there are special. And I'd just like to wish everybody the best and tell them to keep an eye on the space station.

And for all the young kids up there that are interested in flying, don't ever give up your dream. I remember going up-- I'm digressing a little bit if you got the time. But my grandparents' farm was up near Bemidji. And we used to drive up through Little Falls when I was a kid to go visit. And I remember it was the hometown of Charles Lindbergh, and they had a statue to him there. And I read all I could about Charles Lindbergh.

And I remember when I was about 6 years old, we visited my mom's sister in Baltimore, and we went to the Smithsonian. And I remember seeing the Wright Flyer and the Spirit of St. Louis hanging from the ceiling before they had the Air and Space Museum. And, boy, that was my dream, and I got to fulfill that dream. And that was a dream I had for an awful long time. And so what I'd say to all those young kids up there in Minnesota that have a dream, don't ever give up on your dream.

Do your best, work hard and be persistent, and, shoot, one of those guys might be able to-- or girls, I say that generically because it's open to everybody, the space program. It doesn't matter who you are, what race, man or woman. Space exploration is for everyone. And if someone back there has a dream, don't give up on it. Be persistent. And one of them is probably going to be talking to some future Minnesota Public Radio correspondent about their trip to Mars.

MARK ZDECHLIK: Is it the case that there are going to be more opportunities than ever for people who are interested in space exploration because it's just growing?

ROBERT D. CABANA: I think eventually, yeah. I think there's definitely going to be more opportunity as we continue to grow. I'll digress again. Look back on the airplane. Think where the airplane was. It was December 17, 1903, when Orville and Wilbur made the first flight in the Wright Flyer. And it lasted about 12 seconds and traveled about 120 feet. Think of where the airplane was a hundred flights later after that first flight. It hadn't gotten very far.

Space exploration, in 1995, we flew the 100th US human spaceflight from when we first started in space in the US back in May of 1961, when Alan Shepard went up in his Mercury-Redstone to 1995, a hundred flights later. It looks like we've come a long ways, but we're just taking off. I mean, this space exploration is going to go exponentially, and we're just at the beginning. We have so much more to learn, and we're just going to continue to grow, and it's going to skyrocket. So eventually, there's going to be a lot more opportunity.

GARY EICHTEN: NASA Astronaut Bob Cabana, Commander of the Space Shuttle Endeavor. Colonel Cabana spoke with Minnesota Public Radio's Mark Zdechlik two weeks ago at the Johnson Space Center in Houston as part of our continuing Voices of Minnesota series. Cabana, Minneapolis Native, is making his fourth spaceflight tomorrow, this time as commander of the first US flight to assemble the International Space Station quite a long way from Minneapolis Washburn High School.

If you missed part of the interview, by the way, we'll be rebroadcasting this interview at 9 o'clock tonight here on Minnesota Public Radio, which, if the weather holds, will be about six hours before the actual launch. But the weather is a big concern. Officials say that NASA needs a break in cloud cover to actually launch the Endeavor on time and begin orbital construction of the International Space Station.

A shuttle weather officer says that, quote, "Whether we get off the ground is going to be a crapshoot. The forecast for Friday is equally doubtful, but it's a little better for Saturday." They only have about a 10-minute window each day to actually launch the shuttle because it has to catch up with the Russian component that was launched a few weeks ago. The International Space Station, launch scheduled for 2:56 AM our time tomorrow morning. Gary Eichten here. Thanks for tuning in to Midday today.

SPEAKER 2: Join National Public Radio host Ray Suarez Thursday night, December 10 at 8:00 at the Macalester College chapel in Saint Paul for a free lecture. Tickets are available at Linden Hills Co-op in Minneapolis, or Mississippi Market in Saint Paul.

GARY EICHTEN: You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a sunny sky. It's now up to 55 degrees at KNOW-FM 91.1 Minneapolis and Saint Paul. The Weather Service says it's going to remain sunny all afternoon, and we could reach the mid 60s, another 10 degrees warmer. Partly cloudy tonight with a low in the mid to upper 30s, partly cloudy tomorrow.