Mark Seeley discusses Minnesota's long tradition of nasty blizzards

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Mark Seeley, University of Minnesota meteorologist and climatologist, discusses Minnesota's long tradition of nasty blizzards that have marked Veteran's Day/Armistice Day over the decades, and Minnesota weather lore. Seeley also answers listener questions.

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Thank you Gratis, six minutes now past 11. Morning, and welcome to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Yankton glad you could join us yesterday is special weather statement caused more than a few ears to perk up for many longtime Minnesota residents Weather Service warning yesterday that a dangerous winter storm was on the way brought to mind a long history of November storms here in Minnesota a history. That's replete with some very unpleasant even catastrophic surprises 23 years ago today on November 10th Affairs winter storm whipped by gale-force winds at Lake Superior the Edmund Fitzgerald and ore freighter with 29 crew members went to the bottom 58 years ago today, which was a Sunday November 10th Don warm and pleasant shorts shirts Lee weather to be sure but by afternoon a raging winter storm it moved into the region one that eventually killed about 15. Shelton's many of them duck Hunters who froze to death in their blinds and their boats the Armistice Day blizzard as it came to be called is perhaps the most devastating winter storm in State history. Certainly one of the most talked-about but it's not just those two storms many Minnesota November 7th cluded a huge off and dangerous winter storm in joining us this hour to talk about that history and why the weather at this time of the year can be so unpredictable. And so dangerous is University of Minnesota meteorologists and climatologists Mark Seeley who of course you are each Friday here on our Morning Edition program. We also invite you to join our conversation this hour, especially those of you with your own November blizzard memories. Give us a call 227-6002 to 76000 outside the Twin Cities 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 Minnesota weather in Minnesota weather. Lore are subject to Sauer Mark. Thanks for coming in today. You're welcome. Anytime Gary now before we get started with history in the rest, let's find out about the current conditions out and about rich neistat joins us from the National Weather Service Office operations officer with the Weather Service warning Rich appears here in the Twin Cities that we will Dodge the bullet but not so outside the Twin Cities correct complete bullet in the Twin Cities, but it certainly is much worse than out statement of soda with either blizzard warnings in effect or will be in effect through this afternoon for Western Minnesota and winter storm warnings for much of Central and North Central Minnesota. So the storm where is it the most severe right now down in the southwestern part of the state is quite bad up in for Northwestern Minnesota and our favorite spot, you know, the Red River Valley that always has poor areas. I would say the entire Western extreme from the Red River Valley. Down through Xtreme Southwestern Minnesota, and the storm is expected to move Northeast the center of the low pressure center, which is actually a little bit different than the one might say the Storm Center and it's expected to move Northeast on up into extreme Northwest, Wisconsin or close to Duluth by this evening. What kind of snowfall totals can we expect in northern Minnesota and Western Minnesota Storm totals should be in the 6 to 10 inch category down closer to the Twin Cities. They would be lesser than that tapering off rapidly. We're still in the process of formulating our forecast, but there could be a quick couple of inches here around Rush Hour even in the Twin Cities area, but except for Western in northern Minnesota. It's really an even there. It's the combination of the falling snow with the high winds that will lead to or are leading to low visibility in very poor driving conditions the storm. When will it likely pass out of our area when will things settle down again with a little be all settled down by Wednesday? Basically, we'll still have the winds blowing but we won't have much in the way of falling snow if any and so conditions would be greatly improved by tomorrow, which is Pointed out is the real anniversary of the Armistice Day storm, right and here in the Twin City area. The one thing that caught my attention this morning, it was raining so very very hard. Is that going to freeze? No, I think well, I guess the answer is we don't know for sure. I mean weather would freeze but I think a lot of it will drain off in the wind's coming up will also really help to evaporate. So I don't think we're not going to have that really huge temperature drop that would cause it to freeze if you remember back to the January, I don't I don't want to steal Mark celie's thunder cuz I know he's very good in this area but the January 10th through 12th 1975 storm where we had a tremendous amount of rain of the temperature dropped from temperatures around 42 actually zero and Below within a few hours, you know, all the water basically Frozen 2 ice and slush and stayed around for weeks. And this time the cold air is not coming in that fast and so we won't have Instant freezing of of water. I mean eventually some of the water that's sitting there will but even out in Western Minnesota. Now, the temperatures are in the load of it 30s still above freezing and that's the area that will be coming into the Twin Cities during the afternoon hours. For example, thanks a lot early on with respect to this storm. The models were giving somewhat different solutions. Are they converging? Are you getting more agreement on the forecast models now, so you have a good handle on it? Well, I think there's there's somewhat better agreement. I think really what we need to look at more and we could have looked at more perhaps is the forecast temperature profile of the atmosphere and looking at that. It really indicated that a lot of this would be rain changing over to snow rather than much later in the day like for the toys. Cities in terms of the models there is there still is a difference. They have their biases to little models basically agree, but I think that's that's the real challenge of meteorologist. What do you work for the National Weather Service? Enterprise is is trying to resolve these and it's very difficult because you have four and five different models to look at and they often look different last question Rich real quickly is the shipping season still underway on Superior are the winds going to be high enough. This is going to pose a threat to shipping you think in the next 24 hours, but I think you're going to have very high winds up there. I don't know how high they have to be a pose a threat to shipping but I think that's not definite possibility at the Twin Cities Office of the National Weather Service now just to review very briefly. If you're thinking about traveling today via where Interstate 90 is now been closed all the way from Jackson, Minnesota West to Rapid City. So best find another route to take rather than I 90. No travel is allowed on that stretch of Interstate because of Winter storm and the Minnesota Department of Transportation reports poor driving conditions poor driving conditions now in the Brainerd Detroit Lakes Maurice Wilmer, Wyndham and Marshall areas. Bear driving conditions currently in the Twin City metropolitan area probably not a historic storm this time around but it won to pay attention to especially outside the Twin Cities. Yeah. I think it's a wake-up call for us here in Minnesota. It's definitely time to get ready for winter and I might add this doesn't look like it's going to be an isolated case either Gary looks like the rest of the month to me looks quite unsettled. So we might as well prepare prepare for unsettled weather for the remainder in November so we can expect quite a bit of a blizzard type activity some storminess no question about it then and perhaps plenty of moisture, but we've got things lined up at least according to the guidance that till we might see something come through this coming weekend. We might see something come early next week. So anyway, it's time to get ready for that sort of thing more specific to this part of November is it Show that we have an unusually large number of nasty winter storms right around what used to be called Armistice Day now called Veterans Day November 10th, November 11th will from the standpoint of History. I think you're right in that some of the most remarkable storms in the history of our glorious State have actually occurred in November in primarily because November is such a strong transition month for she know, it's Mother Nature's battle over control here in the northern landscape between The Fall season and moving into winter and we've got these are masses that clash of the warm moist air from the south and the cold polar air from the north there clashing to dominate over the upper Great Lakes Region, and and then secondly as we have situations like today where we have low pressure that everyone can see thousands of miles away move in on the west coast come through the Rockies come into the central plains, but then lo and behold it intensifies. It actually gets deeper and More wound up more store me and those kinds of things tend to happen in November. Now one of the characteristics and looking up some of this information about the Armistice Day storm in 1975. When the Edmund Fitzgerald went down one of the things they have in common is that it was very very mild right before the storm roll through and then turn really ugly. Right. That's what's that all about that gets back to this clash between the air masses sweet. We tend to have a in storm situations like that. We sometimes tend to get the warm air moving in and dominating us from the south with kind of up if you will the advance of a warm front just before the low pressure system moves through and pulls the cold front behind it so we can we can have tremendous temperature differences. In fact, that's one of the features of the Armistice Day storm that you mention where we had 49 deaths in Minnesota, and we also had some some deaths on the On the Great Lakes, there were also some some shipping losses, but in the 1940s situation, I think we lost about 50 or 60 degrees of temperature and a very short interval. We went from that warm air and it was it was if you will Swept Away by the cold air behind it and that's not even considering windshield. That's just straight ambient temperature loss of 40 50 60 degrees. Then when you factor in the wind behind it, and of course for blizzard conditions were looking at 35 mile an hour winds are greater than you have tremendous windchill effects, Marcy Lee is with us this day our clan, excuse me, climatologist meteorologist at the University of Minnesota and you here in the chorus regularly on our Morning Edition program. He stopped by this hour to talk about the weather and whether lower here in the state of Minnesota, and if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call to specially love to hear from those of you with your own November blizzard memories, if any of you are listening who I actually made it through that Armistice Day blizzard really like to hear from you 2276 thousand Twin City area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-422-8281 other question for you mark before we get to our first caller, is it fair to say that the Armistice Day blizzard was the worst November storm we've had and one of the worst in in State history. I think that's a fair statement. I suppose it would be up to dispute whether it was the all-time worst. But let me explain one quick ramification that that had the winner of 1940-41 was a difficult winter in the Upper Midwest in Minnesota in particular not only with the Armistice Day storm on November 11th, 1940 that killed 49, but then the next spring March 15th of 1941. We had another song. Beer blizzard that killed 32 people now that was a big Landmark year for changes in the National Weather Service because back then the regionalization of the Weather Service put us in Minnesota under the jurisdiction of the Chicago district office and people came to realize suddenly that to get a good handle on these winter storms and forecasting these blizzards and get out ample warning. We needed a finer regionalization of responsibilities and jurisdiction. So following that terrible winner of 4041. They transferred a lot of control up here locally the Minnesota to handle the forecast and do all the monitoring and the watches warnings excetera. So that that was a big transition year that marked a big change in the way the National Weather Service handled winter storms in Minnesota. So at least in theory, we couldn't have a repeat where so many people were caught by such surprise. That's the theory anyway that that's the theory and in and I think to justify that lets Go back two Winters ago Gary. Let's go back to the winter of 96-97 which just preceded the flood the great flood of 97. Well, you might say the precursor to that flood was the first Great Blizzard of that winter, which was November 16th and 17th and Western Minnesota followed by 10 other blizzards. We had 11 blizzards in the state of Minnesota in 1996-97. And we did not see loss of life or loss of property from the blizzards themselves anywhere near like we have done historically and I would argue that was the most blizzards we've ever had in the state of Minnesota in one winter and the weather service at the time did such a great job with that. I think in terms of putting out watches warnings and notifying the citizens of the state that we minimized what could have been terrible impact if that would have occurred, you know back several decades ago on the other hand though. What was it for? Five years ago when we had the big Halloween snowstorm. I think we were told in advance it might snow but I don't think anybody had any concept that it was going to snow that much. Well, that's right. That one that developed. So October Thirty-One to November three of of 1991 turned out to be far more than anybody would have forecast and that one's probably actually a test case. I'm sure a lot of people lot of meteorologist have that in mind whenever they see of a storm of similar track developed to that one. They want to make sure that they're tracking the characteristics and carefully. I'm not looking at a repeat of something like that. That's go to the phones here questions for marcilio Mike your first place in the middle of a blizzard down in Southwestern Minnesota where they have that kind of thing going. I think it was it was a year after I moved here and they they told me that the that the weather was bad. But you know, it was a mild winter. So I thought they were just playing with me and you know a big deal about 5 miles from my house. I did it was a it was a corner store. I was going to it was a bar but they sold milk and eggs there because it was you know, what the closest store around and so they may be sold everything that we walked in there and got the milk out the eggs and we're going to walk back out and two people came in just covered in white said I hope no one's planning on going anywhere and we ended up spending the night there and and I are riding in on the greater 2 r r Farm. Welcome to Minnesota. This was 80 8086k My lab wreck there was a mild winter before then. It was pretty much an open winner before that. You know, if they call it down there when it doesn't doesn't snow on it then the next year old boy. Well Western Minnesota Gary I might add is subject to a blizzard conditions not so much because of heavy snowfalls, but because of the dominance of high wind often times blizzard conditions will occur in western Minnesota and by Nature there really a ground blizzard because what happens is once you have over winter snowfall on the ground you get strong enough winds and it can start moving that snow cover around and visibility can go to zero. It's not very often that we see a 16 or 20 or 24 in snowfall in Western Minnesota. We see most of those kinds of snow falls in the eastern part of the state, but it's the it's the wind conditions in the western part of the state. I think that contribute more frequently. Not to blizzard conditions that that's because it's flat Prairieland. It's so exposed. Yes. What is a blizzard? What's the official definition? Will the official definition that the Weather Service uses his quarter mile or less visibility falling temperatures winds at 35 miles an hour and snowfall that's going to be persistent for about 3 hours or longer. So those are the conditions that they look for specifically. And do they grade blizzards like a do tornadoes in terms of severity? I don't know that they do. I don't think there's any official mechanism or method for doing that but I have heard forecasters provide if you will some subjective criteria and grey and gray blizzards out perhaps, you know, our all-time worst blizzard in Minnesota was some one that occurred back in 1888 January 12-13, which like the Armistice Day blizzard. It came on the state during a mile January spell when people were outdoors and no no one really expected it one of those January thaw's right, and it ended up killing 200 people many of whom were school children that have gone to school in Western Minnesota that morning under a sunny Sky mile conditioner and then by midday the blizzard it started and late. They let him out hoping that you know, they could get back home a course back in those days. It was horseback or wagons or Whatever and quite a few of them never made it but quite a few of the 200 that died from that storm Works were school children. 1 day old when the Armistice Day blizzard hit in Northwest Iowa and a full two story every day of my birthday. And that is that my father he was Joker. The farmer and he has let the 10 calls out in the morning to the pastor. And first one to Blizzard hits these college did not come home and did not have insurance. So he had to find a way to get the cows and he bundled up. And he filed the fence line. About three-quarters of a mile along the cornrows for the pastor and when he got to the corner where the cows were the pastor he just yelled as loud as he could and the cows hurt him. And they turned toward him and they followed him home. So he led the 10 cows home into the barn. Maybe hey better Minds than my dogs do. I got back safely and most importantly my father did and your family talk a lot about that storm. That reminds me the history books a show that there was indeed a large loss in terms of the livestock industry in the state from that storm as well as the number of people who were killed. 2276 thousand if you'd like to join our conversation with Mark Seeley were talking about weather and Minnesota weather lower specific Focus today, though always on those nasty November storms, which have become such a part of Minnesota History of special Focus, I guess on two storms though. There are many to talk about the two of the Armistice Day blizzard of 1940 and then the storm that rolled through a 1975 when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down on Lake Superior to 276 thousand or one 800-242-2828 up all your question or comment place. I was calling about the Armistice Day storm. I used to work with people that have grown up older people at a grown-up in Pepin. And they would always tell stories about it. I don't think any of them were actually caught in a bad situation the storm but one of the effects of the high wind blowing in the direction that it did was to raise the lake levels at the lower end of Lake Pepin in the river bottoms by 5 or 6 feet above normal. So duck Hunters that I'd wait it out to there. Cutting position couldn't wait back and they were stuck out there. I remember reading about duck Hunters that were stranded out on the Mississippi Watershed in various points, and some of them didn't suffer frostbite and some of them also perished. I was reading that the real problem was that so many Hunters naturally if you're out in the blind or whatever if you got even slightly wet, you were really in big trouble because the temperature drop so fast in your clothes Frozen you froze. If is the fortunate ones were those who somehow managed to stay dry during the whole thing. That's that's another good point Gary. We got to remember that if we accept the 35 mile an hour wind criteria for blizzard conditions, and we superimpose that on any kind of drop in temperature. For example, say 20° C. You say you fall from 30 degrees to 20° a 10 degree drop you by the time you get to 20 degrees with a 35 mile an hour wind, you're talkin about windshield conditions that can freeze Exposed Skin So you're starting to get into the dangerous category. So as the temperature drops when you have blizzard wind conditions, you really get into the danger category quite rapidly meteorologist climatologist, Mark Seeley joins us from the University of Minnesota the shower to talk about Minnesota weather and whether lower and again, if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call to specially like to hear from those of you who have your own memories of November. Storms maybe that Armistice Day blizzard 227 6001 800-242-2828. Let's take a break here momentary break and then Marca when we come back if you could give collar wanted some tips on what to put in the car in the emergency kit. Maybe we should remind people of that too. So, all right, we'll get to that this morning. I'm learning All Things Considered snow is already here sled dogs. Can't be far behind will talk with author Bob Kerrey about his new book born to pull their lunging against the harness barking and lunging and lunging they want to get going to have to keep the sled tied because they'll take off a slap on the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities reminder over the noon hour today so I can do all of our midday program. We're going to be talking with the Republican candidate for governor, St. Paul May or Norm Coleman. He'll be here to talk about the campaign and the future and city of Saint Paul. And of course our phone lines will be open for your questions. That's at noon today program by Ecolab Global partner with leading Hospitality Healthcare in food processing customers, improving cleaning and sanitation standard standard worldwide www.ecolab.com reminder that a major winter storm is moving across the state. It's not bad here in the Twin Cities. But outside the Twin City area. It is not pleasant tents winter storm is located over South Central Minnesota. It will move Northeast to near Lake Superior by this evening Weather Service says that has the storm moves across heavy snow will spread across Central and Northeastern Minnesota strong winds will sweep across western and southern parts of the state grading blizzard conditions. Also a winter storm warning is in effect now for Southwest Central and North Central Minnesota high wind warning in effect for the counties along the Iowa border through the afternoon in terms of snowfall amounts right now. It looks like let's see cities Northwest of the storm track will get another 6 to 8 in of snow that includes Redwood Falls and Montevideo st. Cloud Alexandria Little Falls here in the Twin City metropolitan area. Weather Service says, we'll probably get about 1 to 3 in of snow just about rush hour time. It's going to be windy the rest of this afternoon. Maybe I'll even a thunderstorm yesterday then the tonight the forecast calls for snow to continue in the northeast or otherwise the snow should taper off and by tomorrow partly cloudy skies are forecast with highs in the 30s Twin Cities as we say good chance for rain and snow through the afternoon more light snow is likely tonight and then partly cloudy tomorrow with a high. The mid-30s currently around the region Saint Cloud light rain 36 Rochester cloudy and 38 Duluth with light rain 38°. It's snowing out West Fargo in Sioux Falls both with snow Fargo 33 degrees Sioux Falls 31 and a Twin City temperature with light rain is currently 45° Archie Lee is with us to talk about whether and weather lore specifically the nasty November storms that seem to occur every other year or so here in the state of Minnesota before we get back to our callers Mark. Can you remind everybody what it is you're supposed to have in your little emergency travel kit in the car will be now. That's a very good point of try to have some blankets and food some beverage, maybe some extra clothes some people take these a little tight ends or things with little little candles along. Although you also have to be quite worried that if you're going to stay in the vehicle, you need to keep the window. Cracked you need to keep some ventilation. I think too often overlooked Essentials that people need when they travel during the winter time and are very good ideas are number one and NOAA Weather Radio. So you can pick up weather anywhere you are number two is a cell phone cell phone is what it what a wonderful asset that is to have the ability to call especially if you end up in a strand of situation where you're going to have to stay with a vehicle and not move for a while. So I think all those are very good ingredients for that kind of winter kit to take long. I suppose longer-term. This will become less of a problem as more and more cars become equipped with these satellite positioning devices. You don't like to have on the on the fancy cars now so you can just kind of punch a button and everybody knows exactly where you are and you know where you are right that you would think that would have tremendous potential, right? Or course you if you have your own helicopter, especially from people at the University of Minnesota like that. 15 foot radio antenna with a big orange flag on it back to the phone. Sierra Oaks on the line with some questions and comments about whether Laurin Minnesota John. Yeah my own. Yes, you are so few things in my life that I remember very distinctly the obvious ones the Pearl Harbor and that sort of thing but one of the memories I have of the Armistice Day blizzard and I was at home on my family's farm and we had a lot of tame ducks that we all were going to slaughter later. I just fall in the fall in those Ducks were out in the middle of a pond probably a hundred yards across and they were swimming around in the storm came so quickly with sleet and it froze that the Ducks flows into the End of this wash on the pond and I spent the whole afternoon with a Iron Man beating our way out with a boat to gather up those ducks and we put them in a bag and all the way up to our barn an end and turn them loose and installed and they revived him that survived the storm flying but that's my life. Duck story for the November blizzard. Thanks John. I don't think you're a naturalist Mark but have you heard accounts of animals Critters being particularly sensitive to these changing weather condition so they go high doesn't sound like the Ducks made it but in general I've heard of it as you suggest. I'm not an expert by any means there are situations though where the weather changes so fast that even animals one normally expect to be quite sensitive and perhaps be wary of these changes will sometimes Suffer immensely from the the fast changes, especially I think what's happened in in some recent years has some of the ice storms that precede the blizzard-like conditions where we get freezing rain and ice first and then we get the end of blizzard conditions in free sample. We lost a lot of not only domesticated animals, but we lost a lot of wildlife as result of that horrible blizzard that preceded the flood of 97 came in and hit the Red River Valley on April 5th and 6th, you know, we saw people out fighting the flood but literally outside in a blizzard and all that blizzard caught everything on the landscape unexpectedly and it had the it had bad consequences for the native Wildlife as well as the light stalking other animals on the farms up there. Now that blizzard was an April. What's the earliest nasty blizzard in terms of the early part of the winter that we've had That we had one in like early October. We don't don't have any in September to lie. The the one that striking in the history books Gary is the one that occurred on October 15-16 of 1880 in Western Minnesota. It socked in the little town of Camby and yellow medicine County and I believe affected effected Montevideo and Pipestone and some of those other areas and it left drifts that were 20 feet high that stayed all winter from October 15-16 1880. They were there until the next spring that's in my recollection about the earliest record of a of a nasty seasonal blizzard condition have to wonder why people moved here. I mean really I have floored will infect their speculation with winner of 1888. E1 may have been one of the snowiest in the in the history of Minnesota, but back then we had so few Pioneer records and Pioneer measurements of actual snowfall that There's been nothing documented. Well enough to know what the total seasonal snowfall. Was that winter Tom your next go ahead plays. You're coming a storm left home in South Minneapolis. It was balmy by the time I got through with my route to snow is almost up to my waist when I really remember however is that there's a reward for carrying papers the three of us were given the opportunity to appear on the radio. We were given his brand new canvas paper bag. We had our picture in the paper and then lo and behold I gave us a hundred extra copies that we were supposed to go out to the customers the following day. I'm wondering obviously the Armistice Day blizzard was catastrophic for a lot of people got caught out in it outside the Twin City area. Was it the dangerous here in the Twin City area or just inconvenient? I just I didn't recognize the danger. I thought it was terribly inconvenient traffic ground to a halt of course and I don't recall anybody any loss of life or any of the problems of that kind. It was terribly tough on turkey's however in the southwestern Minnesota and that was a problem because Thanksgiving was coming. That was a heavy wet snow to did you have plastic bags to protect your newspapers back in those days to Bonnie who joins us from West Saint Paul. Good morning. Good morning. I heard that gentleman 1881 when I was a little girl in the early 30. I used to hear my father talk about the appropriate question that I'd like to hear something about that. We mentioned that one in the first half of the show briefly. But January 12-13 of 1888 was the most lethal blizzard in the history books that I can find in Minnesota where 200 people died as a result of that primarily in Western Minnesota. But the this was the one that killed many children that were let out early to go home from school and it left huge drifts on the landscape blocked Mini. Roads and trails back then and the actual temperature following that blizzard was something like -35 to -40 degrees. Now that's not wind chill. That's the actual temperature that swept in after that blizzard. So anyone who was outside or exposed in those kind of conditions was at was caught in a real lethal situation and I'm not surprised that you would have family members from One generation to another pass along the memories of that storm or kind of focusing on November blizzards today, but we've already heard about a couple of really nasty ones in January is January the worst month for blizzards. Is there one month where we have Substantially more blizzards than other months. That's a that's a good question. And I'm I'm afraid I can't answer that that may be the case Gary. There's been a lot of lethal blizzard conditions a lot a lot of a difficult blizzard conditions in the month of January and in terms of frequency, it may be the highest frequency as far as among the months, but I'd have to look at the records to verify that I suppose the odds are pretty good because you almost always have snow so that you'd have that mixture right on in the ground on the ground right away. And then of course any additional would cause problems and that's why you're so cold and everything. That's right. Try joins us from Sioux Falls at try understand your socked in. Troy weather I guess not. Let's move on to Levain who joins us now from Cloquet High a child at the time in Western Otter Tail County. Very near the welcome border. And I think I tend to mix up a little bit the Armistice Day storm in the March storm the following spring they were both awful and with regard to the livestock. I think, you know, you might think that they froze to death. My recollection is that the real danger was that they would suffocate the ice would get in their nostrils. And I do know anything about that. I remember reading specifically about that. Maybe this clarifies your dilemma a little bit because in the history books, I've read I read about livestock suffocating as a result of the March 15th, 1941 blizzard the next severe one that came after the Armistice Day blizzard and that's because it was snowing heavily in Western Minnesota with the winds were horrific. There was virtually zero visibility because the snow was moved around by 7280 mile an hour winds. So it was you can imagine with the wind chill conditions. I haven't read with the windshield conditions were but with 70 or 80 mile-an-hour winds, they must have been horrible, but the snow was so heavy that I did read a recollection of that storm where livestock did indeed suffocate. Do you have any idea Mark where we stand relative to other states in terms of blizzards? Are we like number one? Can we claim that as our Hazard problems or are we down the list will it gets interesting a South Dakota at one time as a result of their early history. They were known as the blizzard State now. There's a promotion there's a state promotion for you. I don't I don't think they're called the blizzard State anymore. But I would guess that perhaps their frequency of blizzard conditions across South Dakota at least Rivals ours and infect maybe maybe more frequent but they're across the Upper Midwest the origin of the word or the use of the term blizzard is a is an interesting one some attributed back to the Virginia settlers are colonial times because they they called a blizzard of flurry of weather active. Some related to the German people who settled in South Dakota and used to call. I believe the storm Blitz Arctic and that it's a derivation of that old German term and some other people still argue that in the know it was in Northern Iowa. It was the Iowans that invented the term blizzard. They used to describe a volley of punches by a boxer as a blizzard of punches. And so when mother nature starts Bali and on the landscape with all the snow and when they turn they coined the term blizzard, so I'm not sure which of those is correct, but why I bet that South Dakota tourism director didn't keep his job. Very long Richard. Go ahead plays. Yes, you're on their Halloween 1 years back. And we had them an exchange student named Rosa from Barcelona Spain. She was staying with us during that storm and she had never seen snow except for my distance and she just had to get out in it Tramp around. So we provide her with some boots and coat and our dog went out. We all went out with the dog kept disappearing in the snow cuz it was so deep was The Wire Haired Terrier the dog loved it and Rosa had a ball and I don't think she'll ever forget that. Yeah, well, it could be a lot of fun. If you if you're safe. If you can be safe at the same time. You joined us from st. Cloud. Good morning. Hello Mike, so I don't remember the storm but my parents and family always talked about it in our family doctor in Foley was driving to a hospital in St. Cloud and was stranded in his car and I know you spent a day and a night in that car possibly two nights. I'm not sure because his car was totally covered in adrift so they couldn't find them and they know it was somewhere between Foley and st. Cloud but they they couldn't locate the car and he survived that because he claimed he would. Running the car and brief intro Wallace and I'm wondering if a car is totally covered like that if if that is something that safe to do. I I would guess it would depend on to some extent on the nature of the vehicle itself and the snow covering it bear in mind that snow has a lot of porosity to it. It has a lot of air pockets. So if your if your if fumes or exhaust could could go out the tailpipe and be exhausted out through a porous snow cover that might be a safer than if Bree compacted one, but aside from that I would say the other thing to be wary of is if you have exhaust leaks if you have any leaks in the exhaust system or anything that allows any admissions to come into the cabin or come into where you are you definitely would not want that and of course, it's pretty standard procedure to recommend that if you are stranded in a vehicle that you leave your windows cracked a little bit anyway. And I suppose that when push comes to shove if you're just there and the choice is between freezing to death or possibly getting his fixated with carbon monoxide. Well fire up the engine. What do you supposed to clear away though path around your your tailpipe? Right? And this gentleman story brings back of it that part of the state had the quite a large snow snow cover. I think in actuality they had something like 20 to 26 in and but by the time it had drifted into tens of feet, it's no wonder that it would easily cover a vehicle. We have another question mark I related to things in vehicles during storms in an emergency kits and so on battery operated devices is it can you leave your batteries in there or what they freeze up and become useless know they should be okay because the inside of your vehicle shouldn't get that cold where it where would stress out a battery. I wouldn't think that would happen. Not a lot of time left, but let's at least One or two more callers on here as we look at the Minnesota weather lore specifically nasty November storms rolling and the storm passed through we were told at the center at 2 p.m. That afternoon cording to the barometric reading with my brother who was decided to walk into town and take the train to his classes that he made it my mother across praying all the way. I said the one that sings about the store on the ship from being worth it because that the snowflakes were large and fluffy even up the height of it and that they were not in a small sharp as you find it most blood. Never forget it. Let's get that one more call around here. Lyle joint is from Andover Lisle high school student death 1940 blizzard and we had this old tub of a boat and we carved our own our own canoe paddles next to us that they had this very fancy bold as soon as the wind started blowing. We got out of there because we had such a dismal that set up and we made it. They didn't next day. They pick them up dead as 14 other Hunters. I think in our area were also killed by there was an interesting experience. Moral of the story is when you send something happening move out. Did you have any warning at all or we were hot? It was so warm and we had bike the down to where we went hunting. And we got out there and we we bike back and there's snow is falling fast. And we finally had to push our bikes to the snow in order to get home. But we were shivering for a couple days afterwards. It sounds like your instincts were correct where it where they just a hunch or where your instincts at the time based on some previous weather experience, but they engendered my interest rate lay in survival. And then I ended up in Korea in the Chosin Reservoir. Thanks a lot Lyle, finally an update on current weather conditions. Troy joins us from Sioux Falls locked into Sioux Falls. Are you try in a hotel last night? And Another guy from our company. We're driving semis for delivering to McDonald's and he took off at 5 in the morning and be called me from his first restaurant. He says well you better make a run for it quick cuz he won't make it till it was 6 when I took off. Didn't even make it two miles down the road. I pissed just terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible the governor declared. I guess I'll shut down the whole state in a lot their shoveling out their cars and behind me is the Applause. They're not out cuz I just can't see anything we have to run but we appreciate the weather update their keep warm. Thanks for joining us trucker. Try joining us from Sioux Falls and fortunately we are out of time here Mark, but more November storms on the way. You say yes, I believe we're we're going to see an unsettled to rest in November Gary. So I think this is conditioning us and getting us ready for what's ahead Meteorologist climatologist Mark Seeley joining us in our midday program thanks to all of you who've been with us this hour, especially those of you who called in or tried to call in with your weather questions and stories time now for The Writer's Almanac.

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