Thank you. Mike six minutes past 12 programming on NPR is supported by carousel automobiles. The Oddities store featuring the arrival of the all-new A6 Avant Quattro wagon this fall 544-9591. Good afternoon. Welcome back to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Yankton. Well after months are preliminaries we have now arrived at the main event in Minnesota politics the November general election campaign. We have the caucuses last spring conventions in June the primary this week now, it's all the November and from now until November 3rd will be taking a look at some of the big issues facing Minnesota and talking with a candidate to find out where they stand on those issues. We begin today with the Republican Party's candidate for governor, St. Palmer Norm Coleman. Mayor Coleman only had token opposition in the primary this week, but he now faces a very popular dfl candidate for attorney general. Skip Humphrey and Reform Party cannot Jesse Ventura who could end up with a surprisingly large number of votes. Mayor. Coleman is here to talk about the campaign and you stand on the issues and we certainly invite you to join our conversation to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 Thousand Oaks on the Twin Cities. Richest toll free at 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 marathons coming in today. It's a great to be a great great to be in the ring for the main event. I've been waiting for this moment to try to figure out who I will be going against into the should be this could be a great election the Minnesota you have to folks were running weapon friends who know each other and perhaps if we can get get a debate on the very clear difference pass we have to do to a better future for Minnesota that there are two we have two very different perspectives. My perspective is one essentially of giving people the freedom to invest in themselves. You cut taxes. I thought we was like Watering your garden. It makes things grow. You understand the government can't solve every problem is they're at as a safety. Net. You look at issues like education try to find ways to Moms and dads more info at the attorney general has a vision I think of Vision of Love More government that entails whoever by necessity more spending which I think inevitably leads to more taxes which then depresses the things that I talked about. But if we can talk about contrasting Visions, then I think this could be a very good exciting and uplifting collections Minnesota not my place to judge really but it didn't seem like the campaign got off to the best of starts this week. We had the debate over the debate that charges and counter-charges a TV ads about boats take him 25 years ago questions about marijuana smoke 25 years ago parties put out independent expenditures you literally I know some people find this hard to believe the candidates don't have control over that you can make your Expressions known after what's what's better of law. You cannot be involved at all. Independence manager for the Republican Party add regarding the attorney turn on the recoton try and focus on two things that focused on vote some of which for quite a while ago and I focused on like a fiscal responsibility office budget spending all demonstrating that the same was that a long time the Attorney General's had a poor record hasn't been there on the fight against Crime and that he's a big spender. He's a big spender. I think that would go with with an argument the question each of those are what you were getting was was a public record. You would getting a vote. It's up to the voters to decide how much weight they give it is is is it relevant what you do as a public official the votes that you take I think anyone argue that it's relevant. I think then the voters have to decide what kind of weight sides the old lawyer in me coming out Gary. It has it's irrelevant because she's our actions that you took as an elected public official that's different. By the way. I'm asking me what I did 30 years ago. I said, so hey I was there I was at Woodstock. I inhaled but I also talked about Is liberal than conservative now, I guess it's not a overnight transformation. I got elected in 1993 as a conservative Democrat beating the endorsed candidate Democratic Party by the way, and the dog is admitted to smoking pot still. Why was the legislative but I got it if I cut taxes every year and put more cops on the street and stood out there is a strong voice for greater parental involvement in their kids education kept a lid on spending for a help to create an atmosphere where there're thousands new jobs in st. Paul right those with a point thing. I've governed as a conservative but I do want at least draw the distinction. I would think that it would be fair it to look at the public record. If we can have a discussion about ones that the wreck of the votes they've taken as an elected official. I know my records going to be scrutinized and then if you can if then you look at that and at the same time, we should have a fuller discussion. I hope a full discussion by where we going to talk about tomorrow a lot more than about yesterday, but certainly public records votes that you take actions that I've taken to the public. What is an elected public official it's probably fair game as you noticed or is he mentioned rather you want to work for? Skip Humphrey and you certainly know each other well enough he endorsed you for mayor here in 1993. It would seem like on the one hand. You can't you could conceivably have a have a terrific issues oriented debate because at least you used to get along well on the other hand, I could turn out to be a real nasty fight like families have what are you expecting? It's interesting perspective Garrix. I try to reflect on this this is this a Civil War in all this brother against brother families do have to fight those in private. I'm hoping and I really am hoping that it is a debate over a different vision and different experience. I have governed I have governments. I'm I'm the only person in this race who has actually cut taxes you say to talk about hard to do I have governed why would hope though that that we get away from the negative life. What we said skip is a nice guy. I enjoyed working with him. I feel bad in a way in a sense that we know you reached this process. Now, we're two people against each other. They become defined as an enemy. I was disappointed the night of the alleged. Can I was listening to what events at 6 when it skips handlers Vance Opperman describe Norm call me enemy of Minnesota. The enemy of Minnesota dangerous untested. I've been tested. I've got kind of strange and power poses with a few businesses on the shoe time that you can give the steering wheel over to somebody hasn't driven. I driven driven the City of Modesto and Paul that in a way that I can believe we can drive the state of Minnesota cut taxes be vigorous on crime to parents more involved in education. I do the things that create hope and opportunity job creation. We've done those things. And so if we can get away from the personal if we can get away from that will all be serviced gifs. Not the enemy of Minnesota his his vision and path is wrong for Minnesota. But he as a human being is not the enemy and it would be I think it would be refreshing it may not happen to hurry, but I'll make the picture very publicly that should not be personal battle. This should be a contrast between visions and a contrast between experience and a contrast between one's capacity to deliver on the promises that Inmate all of the candidates are talking about a big tax cut you came out with your program yesterday substantial tax cut program over the 11-hour first are the program we heard from the governor. Once again, he's warning everybody boy we could we could have some problems with our economy. If things turn sour can we afford taxes tax cuts in an hour tax cut reflects that it reflects that by the fact that we can put another three hundred million dollars into Reserve fund and reflection that are complicates amputations are based on the rate of growth a declining rate of growth. So we actually calculated declining rate of growth that have the revenues available to meet the 800 million dollar cut in income tax. They they repeal the marriage penalty the expansion of the education credit deduction expensive Economic Development tension credits the phase and repeal the Minnesota state tax our budget does that I would contrast that with the Attorney General's office, but if it doesn't do that How tax cut plan in fact his own opponents dating and then Mondale Hall said that there's about a billion dollar hole already you when you do when you do tax plans, you got to calculate am not just your one and two were pulled out your PS3 and for this tax cut plan is over 3 billion dollars of tax relief. It is going to sustain a lessening in the economy of the Attorney General is playing, you know, if it's self today as a billion-dollar jets that will mean an increase in taxes and if the Attorney General to fall through on his promises and again his own opponent set this I believe Mondale said in the N A. I think a public radio debate on one of those two vases. If you follow through on your promises you going to give me a raise taxes will raise your taxes was going to spend too much are tax cut plan is sustainable. It puts money in reserve it compensates 488 planning economy, but it still gives money cuz a surplus is back to white orchid constituents the people of Minnesota and it provides rate tax cut income tax reduction that is targeted again another car. Christian the dfl the Humphrey Mobile plan talks about and it's it's their language. They they talk about giving targeted income tax relief to all Working Families as with a phrase it but working families and if I need to find is always making under $24,000 and looked and they call Amanda Olson plan targets income tax relief to Working Families both of the lower rate and the next raid if you care if you make $35,000, I still think you're working family and $40,000 and fifty and sixty you're working families. And so there is a different definition of who were talking to relief for and then there also is a difference in whether one is sustainable. I plan will cut taxes can deal with any dips in the economy of the Attorney General's plan as it is is going to call for tax increase in a few, dips the problems. You've me to be worse this our Republican Norm Coleman, who is the Party's candidate for governor. Let me give you the phone numbers. You'll probably get a busy signal if you're dilating immediately. So give us a few minutes as we get through some callers hear to two. 6000 or 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 Junior FIRST good place, you are the bearer of the urban city and I'm living your city. And I think you've done an outstanding job with same pops, but the voters of Minnesota half-world 1/2 Urban. What do you have in mind for a real friends and the real voters in Minnesota and I'll hang up and listen to one that I get asked. If not ass, I'm sure what people think about it at time and again. Just an observation though. I think one of the enemies that we face in this business says I am I reflect upon this is somebody who governs is the enemy of division. We we separate ourselves out its Urban vs. Rural. It's it's Suburban vs. Urban. It's downtown versus neighborhood. It's business versus labor. I have always been one who believes that are Strength as a community is you said that you entered a fine things that pull us together. If I were able to pull a coin out of my pocket. I know it would say e pluribus unum out of the many there is one and I believe that I was one of the challenges of leadership to pull people together as I travel and listen to folks in rural Minnesota are there is a great commonality of of concern and end of Hope and in some cases fear. I would the farmer is in southwest Minnesota. Tell me the same thing that small business people in st. Paul tell me and they are don't tax us to death don't regulate us to death. Give us the opportunity to have our kids go to the best schools. Make sure there are streets are safe and we can make it when we can do the rest with the best producers in the world where the best producers in the world. So I think if we when we cut taxes across-the-board we have income tax rate reduction across-the-board. We help Greater Minnesota when we make sure he is a contrast I got my opponents Frances talkin about returning back workers comp reform workers comp When was enacted in 1995 used battle for many many years was one of those things and imposed. Is it significant cost on business Main Street business route Minnesota in particular by the way in real Minnesota a real concern Rodger Moore was the biggest Defender the biggest obstacle to a meaningful workers comp reform if we roll back workers comp reform which has and made some it's his cut the cost of doing business in some places by 30% You're going to kill business in Main Street, Minnesota, you're going to kill the opportunity to bring value-added up things that took Greater Minnesota V soy production plant that is being built in in Fairmont those other things, by the way, that folks in that the farmers need they need they need with the gold value added opportunities. So they can sell that product. They need fridge fair and free trade which by the way, my phone is supposed they need a value-added opportunities, which if you bringing things if you roll back workers comp Reform Bill kill the opportunity for soy processing plants. So on and off but there is essentially I think a commonality of what we did Ivan the city that was on its knees and end that many had written off in the fact is by cutting taxes by being vigorous on crime by getting rid of the things that served as Berryessa doing business in our community. We've got more hope we've got more opportunity got 8,000 new jobs. If you look at the Coleman tax plan, the things are Economic Development retention credit. I just wanted to say this for the country this one second. So if you go to to the western part of the state is Trump both sides, but if you go to 2 East Grand Forks and look across the river the border to Grand Forks that's really gross is in terms of what most of the growth of Industrial Development. If you're down in Morehead and you look across the Fargo Fargo on just water exploding we're headed is doing its best as it's a great Community, but there's a lot of more growth across the border there if you're down in Lavergne and you look across the border you see Sioux Falls, there's a lot of growth across the border. I told the folks in Moorhead that the folks in Fargo or milking are cows through the fan. Did the squeeze in the economic lifeblood out of Minnesota because of the history of failed dfl tax policies of of dfl. A prophecy was like blocking workers comp reform what one of the things that I'm doing in my income tax bill is to provide for economic development credits to even more level the playing field. I want to see that job growth throughout Minnesota. So what we got to do for Greater, Minnesota is is is very very simple hard to do with simple in concept. I do the things you do to rebuild a struggling sitting urban center. Make sure that people have more money in their pockets and they given to government government make sure you create an environment of economic growth and opportunity make sure that you are streets are safe and make sure your kids go to the best schools. And if you do that, I think will be opportunity for all of us you have ever been roundly criticized by the Democrats for your position on the Family Farm. They say that you want to do away with the family farm that you would see no future for the family farm. What what is what do you see the role of what we would traditionally referred to as the Family Farm kind of the bucolic. I don't know three Four Hundred Acre Farm out their mom pop in a few kit. I love the fact that you say the bucolic 3 400 Acres Family Farm and therein lies its let me get let me just say this the first if there is one area where I have been I have been disappointed in this campaign. It has been in the the distortions in the negativity on the discussion of Family Farm And then I will fall to skip on this he put out a press release at one time which had something and quotes quotes usually mean a Verbatim statement from somebody. He had something that bad words before to be a quote by me but I never said you can challenge people on their positions. You can challenge them on their records, but don't deliberately and blatantly distort afraid something. That isn't real. The reality today in Derry, that's where you come in about three hundred acres the family Fang that was in this was my comment. That was that 40-acre farm 4/2 Forty Acres and manual milking that Family Farm can't compete in the international market place if that's all we allowed Minnesota the fact is there may be some whose definition of a family farm is Forty Acres and strawberries and God bless them. Let them be able to farm and it but there is something strange that the people who feed the world today are farmers having trouble feeding themselves and there are some Farm families that say we need the capacity to grow our farms and in growth should be harmonious should be in concert with the neighbors with the same. Are we near the capacity to grow? And so we perhaps two or three brothers want to come together and put in operation together so that they can compete in the world box. I said that they can put food on their own table the feeding the world but they're having trouble feeding themselves and might my battle with the Democrats on this is their vision of things like opposition to Trade Fair and free trade which does not with which hurts the farmer in their ability to sell their product Farm has got to be able to sell their product their Democrat Humphrey most supportive of livestock mortarman livestock. If you tell Family Pharmacy, by the way, we don't allow corporate farming in minutes Minnesota. But if you tell Farm families that they can come together and grow their livestock operation above a government prescribed limits. You will kill real Minnesota. You will kill the Family Farm because you'll wipe out that these those are so I processing plant I talked about the folks will putting that together said if there was a mortar my life so they wouldn't build here they go to place where they don't know they could get access to product corn farm. Is it livestock eat grain right now? I'm in Pipestone the price for a bushel of corn was a buck 45 carry a bucket that farmers understand that still has a thermos depression-era if we had a moratorium on livestock that price would be down anywhere from a quarter less than it is today or perhaps even more And so my battle with with the Democrats on this is in their attempt to impose their definition of a family farm. I don't think they can they can send us back to the way it was but I am I strongly believe that we need to support the family farm by giving family Farmers the tools they need to be able to support themselves and their families access to markets fair and feed trade the whole range. I'm more more value-added opportunities. If we do those things, then we'll be successful in my tax proposal. I have one specific measure which is really just a short-term measure. We got to keep folks on the phone this year. I want to be able to get back in the field this year. And so we are actually looking at a state payment the first half of the 1999 Farm taxes so that they can have some cash in their pocket to do with the planting again. That's a short-term peace keeps people in the field and then hopefully we'll deal the federal government is going to be leave the majordomo a farm policy. They have to Maxim foreign policy that that that helps our farm is we at the state level then you need to do the things we do that don't suppress the opportunity for Family Farm is to be able to stay on the farm. I support the family farm. I believe my vision is the vision that that family Farmers support that role Minnesota needs and the Democrats have distorted. They've relied on this one and I find that to be a very very discouraging and disappoint Republican gubernatorial candidate Norm Coleman our guests this hour on midday. Next caller is from Bemidji. Dan. Jeimer have an education question for you specifically relating to grad standards are two types of standards in Minnesota is grad standard system basic standards that are measured by standardized tests and high standards that students complete through doing what we call Performance projects performance packages my questions for you. Are these do you feel the same way about the basic standards that students need to As the high standards that students complete through performance packages and how do you see grad standards at this point in time in relation to the balance of state and local jurisdiction in terms of what educational policies in the state will be and I'll hang up and take my insulin. Let me if I can start with the last part of the question which is the balance question. And that is I believe that the state can set standards in terms of of of testing we want aren't we want to measure the performance of our kids we want them to be able to reach the highest standards the highest standards. The problem I have is with the prescriptive directives that the profile of learning the performance package by which we have Folks at the state level essentially dictating to Folks at the local level. Here is how you're going to meet that standard. So what we have to do is to have the capacity to have the highest standards to make sure that our kids are learning that they're absorbing that they can use. Knowledge but I am a very very strong believer in the having low standards developed at the local level for two reasons. One in my many conversations with teachers at the local level. Their concern is that they're spending more and more time working on the bureaucracy of these performance package and state prescribed dictates, then then they are in terms of delivering the basic skills to our students and that's the mistake. I have great. I have a deep appreciation for the great work the teachers in the state do and they should simply be allowed to do their job do their job the second issue. There is also a fundamental most philosophical one for me a core value is I really believe moms and dads need to be involved in their kids education. That's why I'm expanding the amount of money of money available for education credits and deductions to the moms and dads can use their money to decide. Does that kid need a tutor can the uses for books should they buy a computer but the same would hold true for being involved in development of the curricula of up. All that is needed to make sure that that kids will learn and I really do believe in local involvement in local control. So I think it's appropriate to have some either National Norms or some standardized goals that we want to meet but I think we have to be careful as how we get there in my objection to their performance packages is what you're getting is State dictated bureaucratic prescribed ways of of Meeting those goals. I think that we can find a better path working with teachers and superintendents and parents at the local level. I think went to get parents more involved we going to get teaches able to do what they need to do in the end. We're going to get a better quality education for our kids. Would Governor Coleman drop the profile of learning then drop the program or just let the local districts move ahead with it if they want to hide interests of the way you phrase that's appropriate that I would drop the state requirement that everybody has to do this. I do believe in local control. I believe in Folks at the local level in if there are those communities with moms and dads in the parents and the administrators at the local level say, hey, we like this then they should be able to do that. But I'm not going to have the heavy Hammer of the state come down and say everybody has to do this or else I again I think folks I need to get moms and dads and parents and teachers administrators at the local level telling us here is how we going to meet these criteria. If you don't meet the criteria, I've got to deal with that you got to make sure that our kids are learning that they are performing but I have grave concern about the state and federal prescriptive dictates regarding curriculum had a regarding hadn't made those high goals that we all share statistics out today about summer school attendance. And a lot of the kids went to summer school. Probably apparently not as many as were supposed to go but some went to summer school two-thirds of them who took the basic skills test not the the higher The performance testing but this is the basic skills test 2/3 the failed pass again as a governor. What are you going to do about all looks like there's going to be a sizable number of students who will not be able to pass that test by the time they're supposed to graduate are we actually going to deny all those kids diploma? We've taken the first step and I think it's it's too soon to say that the that the body has died. I think this still is still a little life left in them. And I'm certainly not prepared to give up. I do not believe in Social promotion. I do not believe in Social promotion. I believe that we have an obligation to make sure that our kids have learned and I think I've got to do that would be failing our kids and we have to have expectations of our kids and our community has to have the will and the results to meet those expectations. So I would not I would not say that because of this first effort that somehow we are on an in inevitable path of failure. I would say that we have to concentrate our efforts have a have the resolve to say that we're not going to get involved in Social promotion and therefore it. Those things that Ensure give our kids the opportunity learn and then let us be able to demonstrate that so I'm not ready to throw it at throw it out yet. I think we still got time. I think we've got to put the we got to make the effort to make sure that our kids have learned that they can use knowledge and let them incapable of getting out there in that world that highly this job opportunity, but we need to have young people have the capacity to get the jobs that are out there. They need to learn and end in essentially in principally in public education. That's kind of the core that the heart of the education system here that needs to be supported. But let's not fall back into social promotion simply cuz we haven't solved the problem in this first go-round one more education question before we get back to the callers. You said that you're interested in expanding the existing tax credit and deduction program for Education expenses. What about a full-fledged voucher program with a governor Coleman push for that? We really we're past the How to debate Gary we will be on that. I'm not pushing for vouchers now, I think Minnesota and if Infinite Wisdom always leading the nation, I love him with a nation except when he went number two and high taxes. That's the one place that I don't want to lead. But I think even in the area of Education reform we have led the nation we've gone beyond vouchers what we do now in these education credits, it gives parents the opportunity to use their money, depending on income. It could be a credit beyond that. It's a deduction. One of the things I do in my tax plan is I extend the range of income by which parents can use the credits credits have more value than simply the deduction actually simply taking money right right there $50 credit. Boom. You take it off rather than a deduction is just simply one of those itemized deductions today under the present system. We have what you call Cliff. I think you may go over 32,000. Boom. That's it. You can't use the credit anymore. I wanted what they call feather that Cliff move it along raise it make sure that they're more middle-class moms and dads who can use it, but they can use it for things other than tuition. So we're not going into a voucher. Plant interesting thing about about credits and deductions is that the opponents in the end and he are parents if you using that in and you get Humphrey Moen there be afraid to be afraid of the Democrats have talked about rolling bag getting rid of that education credit this money that is going in to education deductions and credits is not mine. It's being taken from public school. Every time you try to do something for somebody other than or in addition even other than in addition to a public school student. The arguments made you taking dollars away from from public school. That's absurd if I put money into public safety. Am I taking it away from public schools. If I put money to Transportation my take away from public schools the education credit deduction out of those dolls at a present being used. I'm told that 70% of the dolls are being used by parents of kids in public schools. So it's actually additional money for the education of our kids. But at the same time those other kids who are not going to Public Schools deserve to have the same kind of writing opportunity. I find it very strange that will not that that there are those Would stand in the way of providing any support for kids who are going to schools and public schools when in fact the president's daughter goes to private school and the vice president's daughter goes to private so they can afford it the Attorney General went to private school cuz his family can afford. I believe one of his kids went to private school because they could afford it will their families here who may not be able to afford it. We're not giving him money for tuition not a voucher but we certainly should be willing to support to give them the opportunity to send them to a school which will give them the best chance to succeed and doing that does not gut public education. That's the claim that that's the that's the attack that's the Distortion is simply gives parents creative Choice greater opportunity that there is no one perfect system for every kid Trotwood. We need to be able to enter innovate charter schools are Innovation tax credits to ductions are Innovation. I will expand them no vouchers, but clearly I do want to give parents greater opportunity where they homeschool their kids or send those kids. Private school, they should be able to get some kind of support so they can do that. So it's simply not a matter of the rich being the only ones who can afford to do that. If it's good enough for the Attorney General is good enough for the present. It's good enough. I think every member of Congress Congress said because they can afford to do it give other families the same opportunity make sure their kid gets the best education but if you only have $100 to spend and you take five or ten dollars and use it for this program and you could otherwise you could use that for public education those programs to take money from the public schools. Did they know that's like saying if you spend money on Public Safety taking it from public education. What do you make the same argument for everything else make the same argument fight efforts to increase the gang unit because you're taking money from public education. I've never heard anybody say that fight after its go through the Attorney General. There was a Humphrey Mo budget look at the money that they're putting into a whole range of things and you make the argument that taking money from public education. I I think that's a specious argument the fact Is that we fully fund education in our bin in my plan in the AG's plan? We both continue to fund fully fund education. But in addition, we provide additional opportunity incentives for parents whose kids may not go to public school to be able to take make use of a credit or deduction. That's a good thing. We heard the expression. It takes a whole village to raise a child. Well if the whole village is not just that the kids in public school. And then again, we will be fully supportive but part of that Village or kids who go to private school part of that Village of kids are home-schooled and always talking about here is giving those parents with you so their tax dollars credits and or deductions and again without that it's simply a matter of of of of the economics of the elite if you're the attorney general for the present you can afford it. But otherwise we're going to write off all those other kids. I don't want to write off a single kid. But again get back to the original question no vouchers. This is not the tuition no vouchers, but clearly Mansion of choice. So the parents are more involved in their kids education will talk about all parents and all kids. Not just a narrow not just one group of parents back to the phone's Mary's on the line with the Quest for mayor Coleman glad Place good afternoon given the fact that there is a shortage of affordable housing in the metropolitan area where the jobs are being created. I'd like to know what you're going to do to ensure that all communities create their fair share of housing affordable housing and it also I like to know if you believe that a regional body should be able to demand that an expansion and affordable housing in the outer ring suburbs in exchange for infrastructure spending like sewers and Roads and I'll just hang up and take your answer. Thank you for that. I think I have to focus on its the word demand it for those listen is who follow this issue. It's the Myron orfield approach that says you're going to have to do this. And if not, you're going to pay app. ICE David, it's the old division Garriott. It's us vs them. It's one Community against another. I've never really thought I'd never followed that approach. I don't believe in it clear that we have an obligation to deal with a fordable housing. But let me say this affordable housing is not just a metro area shoe go to Caledonia Minnesota and ask the folks. There was one of the major obstacles they have two job growth and it's affordable housing go to Worthington Minnesota and ask people which one of the major issues at the dealing with its affordable housing Alexandria the same way so that is this is an issue throughout the state, but I don't believe that you get into the they dictate demand the negative penalize system of dealing with some of the real challenges that we have in our Urban centers. There was a concept developed and I must give the Ted Mondale played a role in this a livable communities. Will you provide incentives for communities you provide incentives for communities to to do affordable housing I have no S'more an incentive-based person. I believe that we need to work with rather than against communities and I didn't get them to understand. It's in their interest. No fordable housing is housing for first-time home buyers affordable housing is housing for seniors who may choose to live and stay in the communities that they grew up affordable housing is housing for the workers that what that are needed in the in a given Community whether it's the Caledonia whether it's in Minneapolis-Saint Paul also off and I think we have a negative stereotypical view of affordable housing meaning simply in quotes those folks on welfare. That's not what affordable housing is about. And and so I think we need to work with communities provide incentives, but I'm not going to take the hammer over the head and provide the create an us-versus-them divisive way to accomplish that I think there are better ways to do that. One of the things we need to do is cut down some of the cost government cost taxation. That's an issue cut taxes and makes my eye drops in affordable housing cut down on some of the beach. Accuracy in the city of st. Paul in a licensing inspection Environmental Protection operation. We have one stop that's getting to One Stop shopping make it make it easier to cut through the bureaucracy work in partnership with the private sector that is out there both the private for-profit as well as the nonprofit the McKnight foundations the family housing funds the folks folks who are committed to affordable housing both in the Corps Center in Greater Minnesota. So it is not just a core sensor issue. It is also and I shouldn't be resolved in an us-versus-them. I think we can do it with incentives. I think we can do it with recognizing the, need and then figure out how to attract the resources to make it happen short-term. Do we need a big influx of State money to to get gifts and get some buildings up so people have a place to live or I don't have never been a fan of begin foxes of State money. I don't think we want to start rebuilding the projects of the sixties. I think what we need a big influx. It is energy to pull people together for the private side pull a nonprofit side together. Let us do a better job of getting rid of some of the barriers to growth but no, I don't think it's time for a big influx of money. I think we have to look at how strategically that we can do this what incentives can we give local communities to ensure that they move forward but I don't think the state coming in with a pot of money is is going to solve that problem Mike your question place. I could have been there to discuss the taxes with you your tax proposal. I didn't like most of the dfl candidates proposal on taxes. They sound too much sounded too much like Republicans. And your your proposal is something that's going to raise our property taxes in perhaps sales tax remember in 79 when pre-proposal 710 million dollar tax stuff and then an 85 a billion-dollar income tax. What happened to property taxes are commercial industrial tax are the highest in the nation and the proper. Taxes on homes are going up and I'm afraid that yours is going to increase the I wish you could you had proposed doing something with property and sales tax which are regressive tax. Let me respond which is by the way the classic the FL response my goodness, if we cut taxes we're going to raise property and sales tax never has the truth then so precisely stated. I'm smiling because one of the problems with when Democrats control legislators when Democrats control legislators it is that they can talk about all the tax cuts they want but they don't keep a lid on spending and if you don't keep a lid on spending you fall into the exact cycle that you talked about first. Let's make it very clear this budget that this tax proposal balances out this this this tax proposal. It's is a fully sustained over the long term for the long-term Cuts in the short-term because not just with the dollars in there, but calculating a decline then in the rate of growth and putting money in the reserve. So no Are there is no increase in property and sales tax you will have those increases if you vote for Skip Hop free. If you buy me of the Humphrey mobile tax cut already got a billion dollar hole in it that Ted Mondale said that if you look at all his spending promise, is it going to be 4 billion out there? If he lives up to those promises you're going to see raises in taxes. We chose income tax because that's the way the money came in with giving it back the way it came in. And that was to the simplest less bureaucratic the most appropriate effort to do that. So that's why we chose income tax every Minnesota listening to me everyone listening can understand easily that their taxes are going to be cut doesn't matter whether you are a renter doesn't matter with you own the property doesn't matter what you buy your taxes are going to be cut the key old when I think here is a difference between myself and my opponent is it got have the capacity to keep a lid on Saint spending in the city of st. Paul the rate of growth in our budget of my time in office has been less than the rate of inflation less than the rate of inflation. If you just look at the Attorney General's budget during that same period his grade of growth in that has been three times the rate of inflation one could get back to his record as a state senator. And again you was as a taxpayer's you decide how relevant you know, it is what he did a while ago, but he never did anything. He never oppose any spending Bill who voted for billions and increase taxes. I history has been one of spending and even and he even in his budget proposal the only real tax cut is the cut in income tax rates that goes to what he defines is working families in his definition. That means if you're only making $24,000 let that switch talk and everybody benefits you making 50,000 you'll get the the target of relief on the first 24000 of your income, but he's targeting adjuster that drove the rest of his program his so-called cutting taxes or tax credits meaning if you spend your money to do a certain thing that government says is a good thing. He's talking about cutting property taxes by about 275 million, isn't it? Not exactly his property tax reform. It's his property tax reduction reform State takeover of education at one time. I think he promised almost full funding of that. Now he's lesson that and then when you talk about by the way, the state cutting property tax return about to take more of education for everyone percent that you increase the state take of Education. That's another 50 million dollar expenditure. And so if you got to take it over 10% that's five hundred million dollars in spending the problem with that formula in that approach is that yes in the short-term when you put the money in your cut local property taxes, but if there is no mechanism to keep spending at the local level by the school board spending City spending, if to keep that contain what happens over a. Of time is nature and end in political units of government a pore vacuums. They spend and what happens then is they spend right back up to where you've been and now you have increased taxes back at the local level and huge increase in state taxes. So I think that's a fair. Old phone that doesn't work the best way to keep a lid on property taxes. It is one do what Norm Coleman is done cut taxes cut income tax, but more money in people's pockets be vigorous and keeping with its pending both at the state level state level and it local levels. If you keep a lid on local spending if you generate more economic activity, you have an opportunity to cut property taxes, if you kill economic growth, if you both did State spending and then see over. Of time and increased and local spending your taxes go up you depress economic growth. And then rather than I need to water your garden with my tax guy does which sustains growth? I think you're going to be just you going to be stuff in your of your foot on the plants and killing growth and it's a much more negative past. So short long asset to a short question is that my budget proposal is sustainable. It cuts taxes. It does not result in any increase in property taxes sales tax and if you follow the Humphrey approach which will which tied in with increased spending. You're going to be in trouble because the Attorney General raise your taxes because he spends too much. Do I get your question from Eric Ullman? What I want to talk about is next week, Carlson is declared next week to be Minnesota wind energy week and one of the reasons for doing that is a week from Saturday and is peeing and Ron are putting online. The largest single wind energy project in the world out at Buffalo Ridge. And so my question for you is in light of the fact that the Department of Public Service looking at MSP is recent resource plan says wind energy is cost-effective and the DPS is going to suggest our Public Utilities Commission require more development. How important do you think the transition we have going now to renewable energy is given the economic and environmental activities that offers and second question for you. Mary Coleman is how are you is Governor create more insanities for the development of renewable energy in our state? It's a great question. I'll tell you why I'm smiling as as I sit back in one of the challenges that when you run for for governor in life. I've done this type of government from the only person that's covered in you your run for mayor in people come up with the other a whole range of things to know about and they got to have the answer to every one of them actually find out when you get there when you get them done, so I didn't know that the governor was making it wind. It wind energy come out next month. Then I'm glad you will you let me know about that. But let me go in general terms. I want to talk about one of my commitment to obviously Innovation. There is no such thing as this status quo. We have to make changed and clearly one of the areas in which we need Innovation is is this whole area of of energy renewable energy. How do we more effectively more efficiently McCoy's productively meet the energy needs of our constituents. I can't tell you. I have the answer to that but I will tell you I will have a firm commitment to go to maximizing those opportunity. I got to be done cost-effectively. I just don't say we throw money. You've never heard me dry sense. Don't you just throw money at something but I am committed innovation in the city of st. Paul. We we were one of the pilot project early on with NSP what we retrofitted a number of our major buffer facilities are buildings and we observe great cost-effectiveness higher quality and in terms of lighting and other things but we save dollars and we saved in a renewable resources. So at a local level I have demonstrated a commitment to that concept we have been recognized for it. I will certainly bring that same vision commitment to Innovation the challenge of government. It is a challenge that have any small business man or woman faces every day deliver a better product to live to be better at it today than you were yesterday better tomorrow than you are today do it at less cost. And if they're the same time, you can do that and preserve resources you got to win win. So you have my commitment to looking vigorously in Agra. Massively and renewable energy opportunities. I can't tell you today. I have the answer. I can tell you my track record in st. Paul is one but we've demonstrated that commitment and clearly I'll bring that same vision and that same commitment to Minnesota assuming the federal government doesn't come up with a place to put all the nuclear waste that are building up out of the Prairie Island plant. Would you be in favor of giving letting NSP adds more storage casks out there so they can stay open until their license expires for a sending in his pee is made a commitment that they're not going to be asking for more cash. So I think they felt patterns men or commitments been made their I'll let me say that in regard to nuclear energy. The federal government has to find a solution Gary they have to that's an obligation and responsibility and I wouldn't accept the fact that you know, they're not going to I think that's one of our obligations that the reality is nuclear energy is one that doesn't create any missions doesn't create any emissions and then that's it. I just want that has something very strong and obviously environmental advantages got to do with the safety. If it doesn't fade emissions put a trace waste and the fact is that we can't keep building up that waste here. So I think the responsibility for NSP to find other Alternatives than then coming back and asking for more storage when they said that they would not put on the other hand. I'm not ready to kill nuclear energy Keri. I'm not ready to kill no pay energy but we have to do is get the federal government to live up to its commitment. And if they do that, we'll be able to enjoy the benefits that we enjoy in this state of energy that doesn't create emissions the benefits that we enjoy in this state of us having energy course at a significantly less than energy cost without the nation. I think there was some responsibility in the part of NSP and then they certainly understand that they said that publicly and there's a greater responsibility on those who represent us in Washington to be part of a national solution a national solution to resolve this problem, but I'm not Going to pull the plug on nuclear energy. That would be that would hurt minnesotans that would hurt our consumers that would hurt the environment not a lot of time left, but let's get a couple more questions on here quickly John. American woman downtown Saint Paul to recently have been turned off by politics and politicians especially with what's going on in Washington involving Whiskey in the Jar reporting so far. Reach those people who killed turned off Melrose get around voter apathy and one of the great enemies that we face in this business is that the enemy of cynicism fact that if a little Broad and channeled focus in their 3m east, I fight all the time division we dealt with that. One of the questions us vs them a complacency the status quo we done with that that issue in in a question here the fact as well. We just got to keep doing it the way we're doing it. You got to make change you got him. You got to be Innovative and the other is cynicism that this that sent those politicians I can't be done. That is what's happening in Washington has created cynicism. What kind of lumps us all together. It's not a partisan. I got my own thing as a partisan advantage to what's happening and watching I think we're all cast in the same boat those politicians. We don't trust you if the public doesn't trust us. We're in trouble we're in trouble. And so what we have to do is make sure that we live up to our promises so that if we are going to say I'm going to get something done we get it done. I think that's what people want out of us. I want us to get it done I get Beat on by my opponents for bringing the NHL. He write l p one of the great Joys I've had is being mayor was being able to to tell my close personal friend Sid Hartman to prove that he was wrong cuz Sid Hartman said it would never happen. It would never come I'd laugh about it talk about it. But that was the Santa can happen. We need when we make things happen. When we live up to the promise is that we make to the people then I think we will raise the level of confidence. So we got to be careful in this race on what you're promising to people you got to do those things that generate confidence. I believe that if we generate conference when you cut taxes you generate confidence government is managing YZ when you put more cops on the street you cut crime you're generating confidence. When you redevelop a river when you bring more jobs as we done in Discord downtown which has been transformed you generate confidence. We generate confidence you get hope confidence and hope you old investment people are involved. They move us forward and we are in big trouble if we have a cynical detach turn to a public so I will stay I have to do what I've done in Saint Paul took a city that was on its knees and put it on its feet but not by me alone by engaging the citizenry with their Vision their hopes that dreams if we do that we will be very successful if we fail to do that as soon as his and prevailed we're all in deep trouble. I have the optimistic view one more call her and then we're out of time Tom quick question. Yes, I was wondering if your stance on abortion is and if you plan to have any sort of the measures to reduce or to turn around the state funding of abortions. First I believe that parents need to be involved in the end those decisions that didn't and it's kind of a common theme of mine about parents being involved with it being a problem the kids education or you're not being notified about those kind of decisions. I really think it's important for parents to be involved that I think it's fundamental think the partial birth abortion is is a is horrific is a terrible terrible thing and that we shouldn't have in the State fight by the way Rodger Moe adjourn the Senate before he gave them a chance to vote on that that should be a simple one that should be a mainstream position for all minnesotans. I have been and continue to have a deep and profound respect for life in my own life. We've had two children who are were born and lived a short periods of time. But in those periods of time that you are for children night, my son Jacob's 12 now and Sarah is a bit in that period of time for my son Adam and my daughter Grace I clearly crystallizing me a very deep and profound respect for human life the value of each and every human life. I think it should be treasured. I think it should be elevated. I think each of us have a gift to give regardless of how long you with us regardless of what your physical condition is on the Godfather of a little down. Syndrome Boy by Danny Danny Ellis. He brings me great. Joy life brings me great. Joy so I can send you to go to obviously be very clear in my position on the issue. I think on things like parental notification and partial birth abortion. There are out. There are mainstream positions that I hope we would all of that. I would know that my opponent difference with me on all those he opposes partial birth abortion, ban. I believe you oppose his parental notification and he certainly has a different perspective on abortion State money for low income people. I don't approve of State money at all. Another was AKA Constitution decision go vs. Dome as which change that I think it's inappropriate for the state to be funding abortions. I think it's inappropriate, but there is constitutional decision and again why we don't have it the power to overcome that other than changing the minds of the Supreme Court, but I do Who is Public Funding of abortion? Finally a campfire wrap up here without at least a quick comment from you too. We really need to have more people running around with weapons concealed weapons. I think what we need to have Gary is safer streets. We need to have less gang members and Drug Thugs and others running around and why is that issue even get raised and it's because people aren't aren't aren't safe. Don't feel safe. And I feel that the police and protecting them. So what we need is more vigorous enforcement of those laws that deal with folks using guns and crimes get to the guns out of the hands of the gang members in the drug Thugs and in those States in which a reasonable individuals have a legitimate concern for the safety want to protect themselves in those states that have those laws are there is actually a decrease in violence. There's a decrease in violence. And so let's be reasonable. It's not demagogue that issue and let's not let's get to the real Focus, which is people are afraid that we haven't been big enough in this state and Public Safety in St. Paul. We put more cops on the street violent crime. Down, I believe that when moving in the right direction, I certainly believe I can help movement of soda in the right direction by ensuring safest streets lower taxes more economic growth and finally giving people more freedom to invest in themselves and their families we do that and we will have that energize citizenry Enterprise future appreciate your coming in like probably can go in a norm Coleman stopping by our Studios today to take your questions. Like thank all of you who've been with us this hour. I see those of you who called in or trying to call in with your questions and comments will be rebroadcast English program at 9 tonight. So I get a second chance to hear from that are called course, we're planning to hear from all the candidates and many many other races leading up to the November election. So stay tuned programming an issues concerning families and children is supported by the Edward are bazinet Foundation. That is it for midday today. Sarah Meyer is the producer of our mid-day program Michael call prank Pangoro. Rather get his name, right? He's hard cyst in producer Especial help This Way Carmichael coo and Danny Jansen Science. Friday is coming up next octonation Science Friday Gary I can hear thanks for tuning in today. tune in for a special gubernatorial debate focusing on issues important to rural, Minnesota Thursday, October 1st at noon live from Brainerd here on Minnesota Public Radio know FM 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a sunny Sky. It's up to 81 degrees at Contra W FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul should be sunny all afternoon and it warm up another four five degrees clear Department cloudy tonight with a low 6265 shower or thundershower is possible in the Twin Cities tomorrow, otherwise windy and warm with a high back into the middle 80s.