Nike Retro 6 minutes now past 12 And good afternoon. Welcome back to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio coming to you alive today from the NPR Booth here at the Minnesota State Fair beautiful day to be out at the fair. It's nice and warm, but it's not too hot. There's a nice breeze that is keeping things relatively cool supposed to get windy or later today. But so far so good today. We're talking animals on midday. If you're just tuning in, or just stopping by now. We've been joined today by veterinarian k'tan Hunter raise your hand there. Okay dog trainer Deb Schneider Dr. Carver Lake Veterinary Center in Woodbury, Deborah Schneider is with the all-breed obedience and behavioral school for dogs. Also located at the Carver Lake Center. And of course Edgar is with us as well. Edgar is Doctor Hunters dog a pug Yorkie mix Edgar is an award-winning dog citizen obedience trained and has been a model of behavior is How far the best guess we've had on midday for a long long time for dr. Schneider about to Pet Care Health care, whatever dog training tips step up to the mic and and ask your questions. I was of you listening at home. If you got a question about fight or fluffy or any pet related questions, give us a call or to ask the vet and ask the trainer day here on midday number to call is227 6000 to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828 a lots of people waiting patiently on the phones, but let's start right here. Go ahead ma'am your question. The old Ragdoll kitten that we just got a male and we have a 4 year olds avoid. And we can't get them together. So any tips on we keep the cat downstairs now and the dog is starting to call her way down again the Samoyed because of what they've been bred to do. They love to hunt their they're one of the the last domesticated dogs and their hunting instinct is extremely strong. I would talk to somebody like that about what are some other ways. We can number one get control of the dog and number to get some diversions. What would you recommend that? You know, I guess the cat came how long whole I miss that? How old was the cat on the cats now for months? The first thing I think we would do what you need to introduce them properly and I don't know how you introduce them. But I would definitely have you know, the dog on the leash on one side of the room and the cat over here and I would I would slowly bring them together treating the dog telling the dog to sit good dog one more step and I would keep them apart. But but day by day maybe over a week bring them closer and closer together. So that pretty soon. Do you know I was seeing the cats are pretty common thing that the problem is going to be when the cat starts to move and I wouldn't let your dog be off leash and have him have the leash on so that when you're feeling comfortable enough to let them interact you have control and can say whoop. That's the wrong behavior and I've heard this from other folks that you should your cat should have an Escape Route or somewhere. They can go that the dog can't go on some people put little doors in their basement door. So the cat can flip through or in my mind that catch it always be allowed to get up. And of course the dog shouldn't follow so You know app is for cat floors for dogs that kind of thing but introduce them slowly and lots of rewards for both of them putting the cat for for behaving inappropriately. And if there's misbehavior going on use your you know, you're no command and tell him to do something different. So just take your time at it really kind of operation. Even though a little tiny kitten with giant dog is in charge right? I think part of that is just a function of Yeah Yeahs attitude domestication. Your dogs are highly domesticated and if we train right they pretty much Pandora you are everywhere and what you can't never do right never Challenge on the line with a question. Go ahead, please it's going to be great. Samoyed and I can't get along wonderfully and it just it just took effort, you know, and I the cat was the way for me to pet the dogs. So if the dog wanted to pet the cat was in my lap, that's basically but now my dog has had his family his old because buddy is 10 years passed away from cancer, and I'd like to get my Samoyed a pet and I need to know if there is a restrictions as far as what kind of dog I should get my husband so you have to get another pack animal but I don't know if that's true. And what what dog you think might be amenable to being my Samoyeds pet. That's a tough question. I have a little bit of a a bristle thinking about getting a pet for your pet because there's so much that goes into taking the responsibility for an animal between the training the feeding the Veterinary Care the exercise, I would sure what I want to know that that second Pat was also going to get all that same attention and unfortunately, we don't get to choose who's going to be in charge and it's not about size breed gender anything else. It's strictly a personality issue. You may find it a second dog pushes your Samoyed around you have to be ready for that possibility. If you have two animals and one of them dies is happened with Helen here do the does the owner animal grieve like people do yes. They do. I believe they do. I mean they've had a major loss and their family and everything changes and there. Anyway, you can help the surviving Go ahead. See I think there is a I think you should you know try to keep life is as normal as it always was sometimes what we do is we tend to because the one dog has gone. We lavish attention on the remaining dog in the remaining dog is like hole in that or what's all this and instead of making them feel better. We're making them feel more insecure more unsure. Why is mom like this with me? Maybe we think all they want to do is cuddle with us and we don't play the fetch games we used to and we actually change and then our dogs pick up on it. So the more normal and natural and trying to keep them as active maybe maybe increasing their activity a bit because they are used to being able to go out and play with the other one. Now, you have to go out and do it, but you don't keep them keep them busy and keep things a proposal that what you were going to say. If you lose a long time should you go to some kind of counseling deal are there they're at their programs like that. There are groups that are specific for people that are grieving the loss of a pet and sometimes individual counseling is needed. It depends and you know, it's the pain is going to play a variety of roles in your life and then the bigger and more integral that part is in your life the more necessary. It may be to have help the support that you have naturally in your family can make a big difference if your friends and your family understand heavy how you felt about that animal. I always ask people to stay away from anybody. He's going to say well it was just a cat stay away from those people when you're going through The Grieving because they're not going to be helpful to you at all regardless of what species somebody is a relationship could be as important as you make it and that lost can be pretty big. Also joining us today here at the State Fair Booth is a dog trainer Deb Schneider both of whom or with the Carver Lake Veterinary Center in Woodbury. Think I pronounced Veterinary correct correctly almost all the time. We're talking this hour about cats and dogs cats, whatever those of you here in the audience. If you'd like to step up to the mic and get your question answered. Don't be shy if you're listening on the radio. Give us a call 227-6102 for 22828 still to come this hour will be hearing from the official state fair veterinarian and we'll have a report on the stock dog competition. Go ahead man. I'm continuing on your comments about losing a pet. We had two littermates cats 8 years old and we lost one in June to cancer. We're thinking of getting a kitten maybe to want to know your opinion about how the older cat will react that especially since she's probably still a little at idle last for what happened to her sister. I'm thrilled to hear you're thinking about 2, I think that's the best way to go to the kittens can play with each other. I find that so many times and older cat has to put up with an awful lot of grief from young kitten has kittens need a lot of interaction. They need activity. They need to be able to play rough with somebody which means another cat. You certainly don't want to play that rough with a cat. So I think getting to as a great way to do it that way they can keep each other busy and yet feel a little bit of that void as far as cats getting along together give him his time and space and they will work it out. Because you're thinking about getting two kittens. There's not going to be that pressure on the older cat to interact and play and so the older cat can really take its time to to get comfortable with the kittens whenever he or she is ready Richards on the line from Cambridge with a question. Go ahead sir. And she's we just got it from family and she told you wake everybody up all the time. What does she do when she wakes up? Does she have to go to bathroom at her age would be concerned about a number of medical conditions and I'd have a veterinarian check her out real well, including a urinalysis and some blood work to make sure there isn't an underlying medical problem your average big dog. You know, you're a d to a hundred pound dog living to be 8 to 10 years old and that's normal healthy happy life span. Unfortunately, just like people there can be be problems that come up that shorten A Pet's life span and they're also can be things that extend A Pet's life span. Although it's really important to me that it's not how many years of pets live. But whether those years were were quality. I've talked to people including my mother who brag about how long their pet live, but could the pet get around and eat and drink and go potty and enjoy life longevity is in Isn't the only thing that a pets looking for how do you know if a pear? Yes, kind of always in pain. I think it's it's easy to tell because as far as I'm concerned, there's there's basic criteria every animal deserves to be able to eat drink and go to the bathroom unassisted and I think because you look at any animal and how strong that survival Instinct is if they can't do that, they are really impaired and then for most of our companion animals, there's something else in their life that makes it all worth living with my first dog. It was the tennis ball with my second dog of his food. There's always something special that really makes their life worth living and when a dog can't enjoy those things then then things are seriously wrong. It's very tough animals are not going to let you know they're in pain. They're not so domesticated that they are whiners and in the wild if you complained about a little pain someone would swoop down and eat you and so any change of behavior may be a sign of pain. Mammy question place I have a 11 year old in. And we've only had him since he was 8 and he never asks to go out. So we always have to remember to let him out and he's had accidents in the house that are our fault. But he also you can just let him out and then he'll come in and if he's punishing us or once in awhile, he will spot he is not neutered and he's also deaf. So how why do you think he's doing that and would would neutering him help and what can I do because he doesn't hear me talk to him when he's when he has spotted in the house. Why did you let you take the neutering? Okay. Yeah at this age you write neutering isn't going to going to be the Panacea and yet it it can always be helpful testosterone as a pretty powerful hormone. We know from all species and take that away from him would certainly be one place to start. Only behaviorally but there's an awful lot of medical concerns we have for The Underdogs, especially at his age. So there may be some other reasons to do that is his hearing loss secondary to some ear infections. We're really not sure. I know the people that had him before he was a show dog. And so that's why he was never neutered and he just slowly lost his hearing and I think sometimes that breed that happens to that breed. I think he here is really loud sound that is speaking voice. OK typically with those dogs. I get concerned about something going on within the ear. So again, we may be looking at a medical issue, but I'll let you Talk about housebreaking at any age and you've been trying to to keep him on his schedule. He needs to learn to go to go on command, which is wonderful to teach your dog. He's going to need hand signal and I'm assuming you probably are already doing hand signals without even knowing it, you know even knowing it. So when you take him out, I would start taking him out on a leash and giving him some sort of hand signal that makes hurry up and take him out there and take him to the same spot give him that, you know a little signal and even if you have to wait 10 minutes when he finally left that like to go ye can raise your hands up like you're so happy with him Papa treating his mouth bring him in the house. I would confine his area. I mean. Don't get mad they don't get they don't do things out of spite. They don't they're still there natural. It's it's all instinctual. He may be safe. It's it's just I was busy out there smell and now I'm coming in and I have to go mom gets mad when she sees me go in front of her. So I'm going to go in the other room where she can't see me and make Mom happy there. I didn't do it in front of her. So, you know, we with an adult dog. We've got books. I tell you to tie the dog to you while you should certainly in some way keep him right with inside if maybe he feels a vibration in my in this isn't talking of top of my head, but maybe if you see him a catch him in the act just a stop on the floor cuz he'll feel that and don't don't correct him just take him outside and help him do his business out there. After you know like a half hour later, you should just take just saying I take him out but on the floor, but he doesn't know he doesn't think about it at the time. He didn't know and that's why why correcting a dog after the fact doesn't do any good can sometimes cause harm it can really confuse the dogs. They do learn if there's a mess on the floor and moms in the room. I'm in trouble right but they can't put that together at the at the point where they have to go to the bathroom State Fair our guests at this hour veterinarian k'tan Hunter and dog trainer Deb Schneider both of whom or with the Carver Lake Veterinary Center in Woodbury. We got to logicalis online just be patient if you will, hang on here, sir for just a moment because so we're going to hear from the official state fair veterinarian. Dr. Mike York. One who is from the Clarks Grove vet clinic in Clarks Grove? Minnesota doctor bjorklund horseworks the barns at the fairgrounds showing up to treat sick or injured animals. He says he works with hundreds and hundreds of those animals everything from usually usually don't do it a whole lot with the the poultry they seem to be pretty self-sufficient but cattle pigs sheep horses. We see a lot of each of those species are probably one of the most common things is is pneumonia as they'll start breaking with respiratory disease a few days after they come we see a fair number of horses with intestinal upset, which we call colic Cuts scrapes bruises. You name it. Basically you're bringing animals in from everywhere across the state and it's just like if you take a bunch of people and put them together, you're more likely to spread viruses and bacteria the same thing happens in animals. And and the other thing is in shipping them and stressing him a little bit some of that the bugs are bacteria and viruses that are naturally in these animals off their immune system is suppressed a little bit. They tend to show up a little bit easier. Basically, this is what started the fair and you know, I mean this is was a backbone of the fair was agricultural industry and you know, it's still a very prominent portion of it will be agricultural animals in the horse show is is also a big draw for the fair but and I think that in some people's minds are still the main thrust but the Midway and some of the performances have come around in the recent past and and are also a big draw for the fair but the agricultural industry is basically what the main thrust was many years ago. So it's it's packed in the Barns and it's amazing how many people that you know, they're they're living in the city and don't have a chance to see a cow being milked her, you know big draft horses walking in the Parade's that's real real interesting for him. So surreal, people are people I think a lot of the animals out of here kind of the cream-of-the-crop basically the starts at the county fair level and the exhibitors exhibit at the county fairs in those that are chosen. Best of the county fairs many times will come to the state fair. And so what you're seeing here are basically the best of of the animals that are exhibited there's many many different classes of a poultry cattle swine many different divisions. And so, you know, it's hard to even name them all. They just hundreds of them. I think especially with the FFA in the 4-H kids that just thrilled to death, you know, they see all all the work that they put in these animals then and to be to be one of the best in the state in the claim that honor is it means a lot a whole lot to him and I think if it feels a lot of self-esteem in these kids and just put them in the right direction. Dallas State Fair veterinarian, dr. Mike bjorklund of the Clarks Grove vet clinic in Clarks Grove Minnesota horse animals is Doctor bjorklund noted intrical part of the Minnesota State Fair since as long as there's been a Minnesota State Fair joining us here at our Minnesota Public Radio Booth veterinarian Kate and Hunter both of whom I with a Carver Lake Veterinary Center Schneider is what they all breed obedience and behavioral school for dogs located at the Centre lots of callers on the line with got a person standing in our microphone. Can we get to one caller? These people have been waiting so patiently and I know you've been waiting patiently, let's Julie your question place before I gave birth to our first baby girl, and she has the Dachshund has gotten really sort of depressed. Although my husband isn't sure if dogs can be depressed, but she To wait until I'm doing something with the baby like nursing or feeding her where I can't I can't possibly pet her and then she'll just you know, me and lick me and whine and see if I pay attention to her and I was just wondering if there was anything I could do for her. You know, it's it's it's interesting. We we we prepare ourselves for our babies, but we don't prepare our pets for the babies. And one thing you may want to do is start giving attention to the dog. When you do have the baby some way at you know, maybe you've got a special little treat you give her or when the baby comes in your arms. You give her a chew bone that she can chew on while she's laying right at your feet so that when the dog sees the baby she doesn't see it as competition for attention. And and I guess I question when the baby is asleep as he is people we think okay, baby to sleep now. I can give all this attention to my dog and the dog says T whenever that babies out I get nothing so I'm going to really start begging for it and asking for it and so In fairness, she's just reacting pretty normally you may also want to see how what you been doing with her in between when the baby is asleep. I'm have you been trying to keep things again isn't as normal as you can with a new addition to your family. I'm making sure she gets A special time with you that she gets that walk or she gets that time in your lap and just be sure that you're not, you know falling behind on that motherhood just makes more demands and and are pet still need the same attention it is that they did before so keep that in mind, but I can give more attention to the dog when the baby is out and maybe less attention when the baby's awake. We have a 8 year old doberman and she's been neutered but she suffers from a little bit of incontinence and we had been giving her medication, but we can't buy it anymore diethylstilbestrol. And our vet suggested that we give her 50 mg of Dexatrim everyday and I'm wondering if that's working. It seems like it could be working a little bit better than it does and if it could be harmful for her and what other kinds of diapers are devices are available for dogs. That's a real common problem. And and that is what we see in the older spayed females. It's an estrogen deficiency the same problem and all as female humans are going to look forward to as well the diethylstilbestrol made still be available through some of the specialty pharmacies in the compounding pharmacies. That is the same drug that people of my generation were concerned about our mothers having taken it was used as an anti miscarriage medication. Unfortunately women whose mothers took that had a higher risk of uterine cancer. We don't see those same types of risks in dogs at all. And so we do feel that it's safe and dogs and it's an excellent estrogen replacement Premarin. Has been used in some dogs that doesn't seem to be as effective. But the phenylpropanolamine or the Dexatrim Works quite well because it works on a neurological level disadvantages are that some dogs really need to take it three times a day for it to work and some dogs tend to get a little bit hyper on the medication and so I can have some negative side effects what I try to do if I've got a dog on that medication is start three times a day try to get down to twice a day try to get down to once a day as far as diapers and other things that concern is that if your dog is leaking because dogs are anatomically built in what I think is rather illogical way and actually urinate through the reproductive check every time they leave their going to be irritating the tissues there. So I'd rather stop the leaking then try and just catch a diaper by then. It's already irritated a couple of different areas of the body. Nutraceuticals, dr. Hunter what in the world are those? Call the new class of of food supplement sweet. They aren't really drugs and yet they are there a little more proven than your typical over-the-counter dietary supplement. There's a lot of really great ones out that have actually been shown in in real scientific studies to be useful some of them and then people will know about this to some of the 800 sulfide or glucosamine joint lubrication medications that people with arthritis take it's actually been first developed for horses on these chemicals as building blocks of joint fluid seem to be then concentrated within the joints to increase the joint fluid there for cushioning and arthritic joint and also seem to be somewhat anti-inflammatory. Another one is the omega-3 fatty acids we hear about so much in the news for humans and in terms of reducing inflammation and and arthritis, it could be very good for dogs with inflammatory skin disease. And they're even talking about it for various heart disease and kidney diseases it again in both humans and animals because these are our over-the-counter their food supplements there. They're easily read easy to get there. Very safe. They can however still be pretty expensive is on whether or not dogs dream reason I ask is give a dog who when he goes to sleep. Looks like he's engaged in the mother of all squirrel chases. His legs go is growling yelping. My second question is when dogs lick are the licking strictly to show affection or is there some something then you're in your sweat salt content or something that they actually enjoy and I'll hang up to take the question of the Year. First of all dreaming I do believe the dogs dream, although in humans where they've done a lot more studies on sleep. It's not the time when you're moving that you're dreaming if you're dreaming actually your body. Pretty still during that REM. What are they doing? And I don't know that we'll ever get enough money for research on that but it would be great to know it is fun to watch. I love it when Edgar gets his little barking attacks and relevant sleep looking for affection or is there something else at work? Well, we've already talked or can be some medical issues with licking. I find it as affectionate, you know dogs. I watch my dog lick another dog in the face. So I know when he comes over and likes me anything and I'm a dog do I don't know but it is it's an affection kind of thing. I think you can control it though. I like to remind my dog's I'm not a dog. So I asked for a kiss. I don't I don't like it to be given to me without saying give me a kiss and then I'll accept it. So do they do they understand who or what a human is do you suppose or is it just a matter of that? You're a bigger version of whatever, you know, like the cat or the dog or something to the world correctly ins and right away was was a tad humans handle them and imprinted human on their brain what the dog sees us has is another pack member. Wherein lies the problem is not you know, are you a human but where do you file in my pecking order? So we fall in there packing order and we fall in accordance to where the dog perceive that's not where we perceive ourselves and that is where people get into trouble cuz they think I'm the human. I'm the boss and I have control in the dogs in the background good. I don't see it that way and that's why obedience training and all these behavioral things are very good for them to understand where their place in the pack is once they understand it's on the bottom bless you I love you, but you're down there things are pretty harmonious in the household animals in the same sense. Are they I mean due date. The master whatever you want to call it the human world particularly in a multiple cat household. Although it can depend on the situation one can't may be in charge of the litter box and another cats in charge of the food dish. Thank you for taking my call. We just adopted a five year old Wheaten Terrier cross with a wolfhound and my question is what do we look for in an obedience school? And the second part of that question. Is it important that both my husband and myself participate in the school or the training an excellent question and you know it do your homework on your on your obedience schools make some calls and go out there and sit and watch some classes and it'll go with what your gut says. Is it look like everybody out? There is enjoying themselves is the instructor seem to be, you know, interacting well with the other students and not just running a drill that you know are is there too many dogs in the class and we talked and we're running five classes at one time and 20 at $20 and each class. I mean, we need a learning environment to be set up and also just your own your own self will tell you of my comfortable with this. Yes, I like this or no. I'd like a more personal approach. I think I'll go look for a smaller school or you know, and it also depends on what in my mind on what you want out of your dog, you know, if you just want to get some Basics and get through it then you know, some of these basic classes are okay. If you need a little more specialized training your want to check with the trainer to see if they'll help you with this or that so that would be the first thing and yes as far as you and your husband training together at my school I encourage it and I certainly don't have a problem if you change week by Who's handling the dog because the dog needs to respond to everybody in the house and continuity and consistency is the key in training. So if you're both involved in it, that's fabulous the dog the dog, I can only win with that can't lose not to tell stories on my cell phone. What what are you do if you have a dog who goes to class and it's a pretty good student gets their degree there and everything and actually does pretty well in the home practice sessions. But as soon as the practice sessions are done as soon as class is out. Okay, that's a good question. A lot of people, you know, they go to class a practice there and then they go home and they practice home and and it just seems like those are the only two places and I encourage my students to to understand that the rules in the school and arts understand rules. Are this bang bang bang when I leave that if you don't insist that the rules are the same somewhere else if you let it slide a little Dustin all the rules out here different and so they don't follow the same rules. So just a real consistent and you expect you know, I always expect garbage you get perfection in the school. Then you take it somewhere else expect some garbage and then work through it in the dog is going to say, oh, it's the same here is there okay, so they can certainly make the transition the key is getting his to as many places as you can to train take them to the playground take them to you know, one of those PetSmart Petco things take them to the vet. Dr. Hunter see me sitting in the lobby many a time with with client. I'm training them to behave while dogs are going in and out new place for them. So get out there and go all over Frank your question. Please hold and he really enjoys that team but he's not very good at giving and pinched his favorite thing in the world is to play tug-of-war with a toy and wondering if you have some suggestions. To put that together later sit down on the floor with a with a toy that you don't like one of those big Rope toys and have some treats stuck in your pocket and hold it out and have the dog take it and you might want to leash on them too. So they don't run off then just tell the dog give and I like to use food to start with show them the truth are going to open their mouth. You're going to give them the food say great. That's fabulous. So it goes in the mouth and out of the mouth and they're rewarded for both of it. Once they're giving nicely on command then put it with fach and it sounds to me like you might want to start all over with Fetch and maybe even put them back on a leash so that you've got total control and he understands the game, but that's how I would start just with some food sitting on the floor learning what the word really means avoid that the game of tug-of-war because especially in a young dog that teaches the dog that if you really want something just And that's definitely not a message that you want that dog to have on there very few dogs that can play tug-of-war with and not get the wrong message. And if you do play tug-of-war with your dog, and you feel that that that works make sure that at the end of the game you get the toy no matter how much slobber is on that toy that you always win tug of war and that that dog does not learn to grab things with his mouth and and another thing with the lab you certainly I don't know if he hunts with his dog or not, but you want them to have a soft bite and it teaches dogs to bite really hard on tug of war world school for dogs in Woodbury Carver Lake Veterinary Center, Dr. Katie and Hunter is the owner of the caliber Lake Veterinary Center in Woodbury. They have joined us here at our state fair Booth to take your questions about the animals pets Health Care Animal Healthcare Edgar is with us the prize-winning pug Yorkie mix who was making his Make an appearance here in our midday program one of our finest gifts. Now. We were hearing a little earlier from the official state fair veterinarian talking about so the agricultural animals who have long been a then a key part of the Minnesota State Fair the stock dog trials on the other hand are relatively new out here at the fair. This year is only the second time that they run these trials good chance for dogs like the Australian Cattle Dog the Belgian sheepdog and the Border Collie to do what they were. Bred to do namely heard. Livestock, Minnesota Public Radio One at 9 and has a report. As a stock dog trials begin the Handler heads out with the dog into the ring sending it back down when the Sheep enter hesitantly the flock sticks together most of the time when a young is superintendent of the stock dog trials at the Minnesota State Fair herding is the Handler in charge of the dog the dog in charge of the livestock and since most livestock is raised for profit. You want the dog to do it in as calm and quiet a manner as he possibly can because you don't want him taking wait that's dollars off. Your livestock says other states have had trials for some time last year. She thought why not Minnesota we want to show people how stockdogs work as something that people can do with their own dogs as a hobby and also, How a well-trained dog can be a real asset to the farmer and Stockman in order to handle his Livestock in a comb controlled manner. The godson is doing anything in motion for doing it on their own you're wrong. Has been courses developed by different organizations to demonstrate the abilities of the dog and to make it a competition when the Handler sends the dog to collect the livestock that is usually called an outrun then the the dog fetches the livestock to the Handler if the dog is pushing the livestock away from the Handler that is called a drive. And points are awarded for each portion of all of these different elements the outrun the fetch the obstacle the pan. Nationwide stock dog trials are typically for one breed at the Minnesota State Fair. All breeds run the same course each dog in particular. Each breed has a different style of hurting some like the Border Collie keep low and use their eyes a blinklist commanding stair does much of the work the Australian Shepherd circles around with lots of body movement young says, the Hammers commands can seem contradictory to the newcomer. The traditional commands are away to me which is counterclockwise come by which is clockwise. That'll do which means you're done with that task walk up which means to walk straight in and push them and they're right near the end staring at Dogtown stamina foot. There's times when that dog has to tell her she who's the boss and the Sheep driving trying to turn that around Bob best came all the way from Georgia to judge the trials. And it's just one of them things happen with a young dog and don't worry about it. And I walked up and help your dog a little sooner and it saved his whole wreck says there may be only three ribbons, but everyone's a winner Emirates understanding and there's an old saying that what I learned from me all about people I want for my dog and that's really had what it is. It's just a lot of good people have a lot of fun and enjoying yourself and enjoying the dog. Winners arverne Thor and his Australian Kelpie named Capri Dodge the dogs in office, but sort brought him straight from his sheep and cattle farm home to more Kilby herders, you know, they're very important part of our operation back without them. We could even do it with you at all. Then replace two to three men and a lot of situations some places. They're totally I mean Amanda Point Blank couldn't do what they do. Thorpe says real hurting is rough, especially on the dogs. They get hurt around cattle. They might get run over one of his dogs was the national Kelpie sheep and cattle Champion three times dope says the dog finally wore out. We talked it over and where is Capri Dodge and a lot more sheep to heard. I'm on at 9 in Minnesota Public Radio. How's a nice story? Where are broadcasting live from the Minnesota State Fair? This is our midday program Gary. I can hear and our guests this hour veterinarian Kate and Hunter and dog trainer Deb Schneider. Both of whom are at the Carver Lake Veterinary Center in Woodbury. Not a lot of time left, but I would like to get a few a few more questions yet before we wrap up at this hour. Let's see. I had a follow-up question with regard to a dog's on d e s. What is your opinion of d e s vs. Estradiol vs. Premarin and where is the available? Well, there are some compounding pharmacies and I don't know if they're actually manufacturing it or what because it is not legal for human use. I found that Premarin is not doesn't work. It's just not nearly as effective and the estradiol I don't have any experience with on mainly because d e s has been so effective. We haven't really been motivated to use anything else and you're right. The major manufacturers are making d e s s More and wait, we may lose our supply which should be too bad. It's it's very effective. One of the advantages being that in most dogs. You can control their urinary incontinence with once-a-week dosing. Susan your question, please to several classes and he was great in class, but when we get home and he's out in the yard with me if he sees a dog across the street or you just has an urge to chase a squirrel. He just runs out of the yard and I've had such a hard time getting him to listen. I've tried so many types of discipline and I guess nothing work. I I just I don't know what I'm doing wrong. What kind of dog do you have his a lab Springer cross and how old? Okay, and he's a tin. So you've been through beginners and maybe even a novice class. Just try to get the level here at 2 or 3 class. Okay. Okay, you know those kind of things sometimes are learned behaviors and learned behaviors are hard to work with. So if a lot of times with clients come to me with these issues, we don't talk about just what have you, you know tried to teach your dog, but what is actually going on inside the home as far as you know, is he pushing he does he does he demand a lot of attention and do your give it in you know, where does he sleep because the here again lies the pack order and if he feels he's above you then he's only going to listen to you when he cares too. And so you might want to take a step back and just see where this dog thinks. He is in the pecking order and also just just like anything else dogs need practice at obedience if we slip up on it they take advantage of Is there an easy way to know where you fit in the pecking order as far as the dog is concerned? Show me the real nice to you and then and they let you do what you want to do mostly but. And they say no, I don't want to get off the couch or or they're constantly throwing balls in your lap and you're constantly responding to that, you know demand there's a lot of ways they tell us very clearly and usually I hear it by the complaints and the people are saying God doesn't listen to me the dog chooses when to listen to me. Those are big flags. Hello. Yes, Heather. Go ahead 45 year olds. been trying to beat Generally, very obedient except whenever we have someone come to the door. She goes crazy and we can't keep her in a down stay all those she'll do it. Any other time. I'm also she is a maniac in the car when I am driving and can't do anything about it and I'm wondering how I can address those two behaviors. Okay. The door issue is one. That's very common. You know, it's amazing how quick they learn what a doorbell means take them a long time to learn sit come and stay but man they learn that doorbell and no time to tell me somebody's coming and the best way to address that would be to do set ups and to decide that it sounded like you were on the right track when you hear the doorbell you should drop you should lay down and the the thing tempted to work with that is to do set ups and perhaps have your friends come over and ring the doorbell and be able to have this dog on a leash and corrector if she if she blows it and herein lies. Word. I'm going to use the big keyword punishment and you have to find a punishment that fits your dog so that when you're working this and she apps to blow you off and Barge to the door. You have some way to correct your punishment. Gary Wilkes bless his heart. His is a pretty wonderful Behavior list. His word is you no punishment should do no harm to the dog. It should be uncomfortable. They should enjoy it. Maybe it's a squirt gun. Maybe it's a pillow tossed Adam, but it should be something uncomfortable. So you need to figure out where you can put punishment in so you can make her clearly understand when you hear the doorbell. This is what I need you to do and the in the car, I guess I would wonder why she isn't kennels. It's obviously the stimulus outside is so overwhelming for I feel bad for that. She feels so uncomfortable. So perhaps kennel in her crate in her in a car would be a much more comfortable ride for both of you and safer for her as well. Good afternoon. I have a golden retriever who is almost 8 years old. She has bone cancer. I was identified about 3 or 4 months ago. You know, I know I'm going to be in Lewes situation here coming up where I'm going to have to make a real difficult decision. And how do I know this kind of relates to buy question earlier about. Pain, but how am I going to know when it's the right time to to put her to sleep to euthanize a dog? It's going to be a difficult decision. But you know, I don't want wanted to be a difficult or painful time for my dog. I want to give her the infamous quality of life as best I can but how do I how do I know? What signals will she give me? I'm always impressed at how people when they finally do get to that point say I knew they come to them on one day they say today. I knew it was the right day as we talked about before every dog needs to be able to eat drink go to the bathroom and enjoy something in their life tend to maintain quality of life. And when one of those things is no longer possible than I think you're getting too old to have the time pretty near the other concern that I see a lot of people struggle with is there waiting for the decision to feel good and it is not a decision even when it is most right that is ever going to feel good. It's never going to feel good to say goodbye to someone that you've had that closer relationship with and it's been a constant companion. So don't wait for it to feel right for you because that may be more suffering than then as a particularly in hindsight than you would ask your doctor to go through. I find so many times that people with their first pet waited longer than they do with their second. Because they see that you know, if something's not fixable if pain can't be alleviated in the quality of life is going then then talk with your family talk with your friends and get the support. You need to make that decision and do it in the best way. You can smile and how do you know if if they are that's a great question right now Gary because they're there is a lot of talk right now about what's called cognitive dysfunction in dogs, and we aren't really able to quantitate it right now, but everybody can tell you a story about an older dog who started going to the bathroom in the house and just didn't even care or can't find their way around the house gets stuck in a corner doesn't know what time of day it is barks for no possible reason and if other medical concerns have been ruled out then that's really all we can call it. There's a medication that has been Adjusted to treat that I've not used it myself. It's a very expensive medication and I think it'll it'll be in the future that will see if that really works. But but there's no reason to think that a dog or cat can be that different than we are there like us in so many other ways a pet cloned. I apparently very expensive operation at this point. We can assume that most people won't be doing that anytime soon. But down the road is that is that something that we're likely going to see a lot more of them and you fall in love with these animals you live with them for 10-15 years. Why not clone Fido are fluffy had a great quote in that they said you can't call in the soul. And if it's just the body and just the appearance that you want. Then you can always go get another animal that looks just like that one everybody whether human or otherwise is a product of of their upbringing their training their experiences and you know what you can much more cheaply just go get another dog of the same breed or cat of the same color, but I don't think that's what it's about. I think it's about the relationship that wouldn't transfer the same breed and everything in the same living environment, but it wouldn't necessarily turn out the That they can they can clone everything physical but not the brain go to a shelter of people are for the program to ship by golly. I've got to get a doggie. I got to get a kitty any one thing I could look for quickly that so they at least start off with a decent match a decent head start on this talk to your veterinarian and your dog trainer first. What do you ask him? Is this going to be right for me? Get it get a real honest assessment of of the time commitment the financial commitment the emotional commitment because I I see an awful lot of sad stories that end in a pretty bad way because the story started with I bought him cuz he was cute now. I hope you don't make any other really important life decisions based on the cuteness of someone or something and that is really important animals. They are animals. They are just like us in so many ways and we can't treat them like object by them cuz they're cute and then be disappointed. When they have minds of their own and medical issues. Thanks so much for coming and I wish we had more time. I would never done a 2-hour broadcast on the same subject like this. We could be here for another hour or maybe we'll do three hours. Thanks so much for coming over really appreciate it. And thank you for coming over our guest this hour veterinarian Kate and Hunter and dog trainer Deb Schneider. Dr. Hunter is the owner of the Carver Lake Veterinary Center in Woodbury. Schneider is the owner of the all breed obedience and behavioral school for dogs located at the Carver Lake Veterinary Center that does it for our mid-day program today. I'd like to thank all of you who have stopped by are both here and also those of you've been with us on the radio specially those of you who called in or tried to call in with your questions or really appreciate specially those of you who of hang on hang on hang on way to get you a question on and unfortunately we run out of time now tomorrow at 11. We're going to be talking with toriel, Canada. Dayton part of our continuing meet-the-candidates series on Friday will be back out here at the State Fair Hope you can stop by. We'll be talking with all the candidates all the dfl candidates running for attorney general in here. Thanks for tuning in today on the next All Things Considered looking for the silver lining in the Northwest strike some airport neighbors say it's the quiet Skies that story on the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio. Can o w FM 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. Maybe partly cloudy sky and I was 73 degrees at Kennedy FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul partly cloudy to sunny skies through the afternoon fairly brisk winds later on with a high reaching the upper 70s clear skies in the cities tonight with a low 45 to 50 sunny tomorrow 7275 for Ohio.