Tom Satre and Jim Silva, both from the MN Office of Technology, and Jerry Podkopacz, Co-Chair of Leonard Street and Dienard law firm's Y2K team, discuss the upcoming Y2K problem. Topics include definition of problem, potential impacts, and what individuals should do. Guests also answer listener questions.
Read the Text Transcription of the Audio.
Thank you. Mike six minutes now past 11. Good morning, and welcome to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Acton. Glad you could join us. If you listened real closely. You can hear the ticking of the clock. The New Millennium is approaching a lots of people are very concerned with out. Some work. Most computers. Apparently won't know what that it's the year 2000. They will think it's 1900 instead and many experts say that chaos couldn't Sue rezin Clinton says there are gaping holes in public and private sector efforts to correct the problem. Some people are so concerned that getting ready to literally head for the hills or the woods in Minnesota is case. That's our at. Midday. We're going to take a closer look at what's called the Y2K problem what people actually should worry about if anything and what if anything people can do about it. I guess this hour include a project manager from the State Office of Technologies year two. Project also joining us by phone Jerry iPod come by as the head of the Year 2K team at the Leonard Street and Diner law firm. And we invite you to join our conversation as well. Give us a call are Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand. Side the Twin City area. You can reach us toll-free at 1 800 to +422-828-227-6102 for 22828 as we talked this hour about the Y2K problem heard so much about it this millennium bug and how it could really disrupt their lives days a great opportunity to get a little basic information on just how it might affect you first of all to begin. Let's begin with our legal expert. Good morning, sir. Good morning in your mind. Is this all hype or you know something that we're going to look back on somewhere right after? First of the year 2000 and laugh about or is chaos likely going to rain will depend on what folks do in the less than 500 days that are remaining but it is a very serious problem. It's something that requires attention and that will create many problems for the folks that that failed to address it. Now the folks who failed to address it are we talking about people who run companies and run governmental agencies or does this include people who have a computer at home or have a furnace at home or things like that? I think the biggest impact will be at home might feel the impact that indirectly because of problems that businesses have but I think the biggest part of the problem will be faced by corporations and in businesses is President Clinton's assessment is accurate in your mind that there are gaping holes in For this problem. I think he was an accurate in describing the government's efforts heat. He said that the government will be Y2K compliant early next year and I think if you look at the report cards at Stephen horn who's the chairman of the subcommittee he issues a report card on the work of the federal agencies in his latest report card overall grade was an F. So I think President Clinton's prediction that will be ready. At least the government will be ready by March or April of 99 is a dream. Let's get a couple of folks from the State Office of technology is year 2000 project involved in our conversation as well as here is Tom century was project manager for the office of Technologies a year 2000 project themselves with us as well. And he is a technology expert with the office of Technology morning gentlemen, good morning from your first Active mysterious Chantry, let me start with you should people be making a run for the hills at this point getting ready for us. We would like to say absolutely not let me let me just explain a little bit about the office of technology and what we're doing with the year 2004. The first thing I want to say is that the state of Minnesota the legislature recognize that there was a problem in 1996 funded the development of an office to help solve the problems and it is located within the Minnesota Department of administration. It's called the year 2000 project office. They were sculpt up to handle state agency issues and they have expanded greatly and they're dealing with schools and local government the concern that legislators had was that there may be issues for the citizens and for small businesses. And what was the level of awareness out there and they asked our office to do that and our executive director Joanne Hansen agreed with those legislators and we have just begun the development of a project or underwear in this program and to the point. I want to just I'm going to say I want to read something from our plan and this is the approach that we're taking we don't want to create any kind of panic. We want to assure folks that. We will do all that we can as state government to help citizens and businesses and we will also be doing all we can do to ensure that state agencies and the services that are provided by government will continue to flow. This is our our statement the Minnesota office of Technology Advocates planning and preparedness in the event that your 2,000 related disruption Zocor the year 2000 problem is not a mental exercise. It is a social challenge that is our approach weather hyper disaster we can and should take steps to protect our families friends neighbors businesses communities and ourselves regardless time will determine who was right and who was wrong. So do we think that people should be running out to the hills know it's going to take up. Careful planning, but before people can plan we have to make sure that they are aware and that's what we're going to do is build awareness of a year who are the computer expert here now. Can you explain in layman's terms what's going on here? I think most people are aware now that it has to do with the the fact that computers can only record have been programmed to recognize the last two digits of my turns are a 0-0 then it and it kind of Goes Bananas. The question is do all do all computers have these little internal clocks do we need to worry about every conceivable thing that is in any way related to the computer Revolution or is it only certain items age has something to do with the question that you asked is It's technology has progressed in maybe more to the point of wearing this the computer chip manufacturers in the end. The other technical companies have become aware of the problem. As you digress into the older systems. They they promised her little bit more significant simply because what you just explained this is basically a parent and in all of the systems. I think what we're really talking about here. Is it from a Layman's point of view is two different types of things one of them that we look at as a Layman is a computer system whether it would be a home computer system or a Mainframe business-related client-server type computer system the other problem though that that we're looking at is is called embedded systems. And these are devices that are used to control or assist in the operation of equipment and they use the same microprocessor some of the time that we would use in a computer. And when you have these embedded devices in the end the various pieces of equipment, I'll give you an example like we would look at a residence. You have an electronic thermostat. These are the things that will probably end up surprising us a little more simple to be simply because most people will not consider their thermostat or What's a circuit breakers or any of those things to be susceptible to problems and they all have these little internal clocks. They need to know what year it is in some cases. They are susceptible that they are sensitive to that and other cases, they're not this isn't a black-and-white issue that that we're talking about here. It's it's an issue that really has to be examined both from a business perspective as well as is an individual perspective in terms of your residents were talking this hour about the millennium bug go we've heard so much about it how it could cause major major disruptions in society, and we thought it would be interesting today to get a little better idea of exactly what problems are lurking out there what's being done about them and what you might do to protect yourself. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call when City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. The richest toll free at one eight hundred to +422-828-227-6001 800-242-2828. The so-called Y2K problem is our subject this shower joining us iPhone Jerry iPod capaz, who is the head of the Year 2K team at Leonard Street and deinard and also joining us from the State Office of Technology Tom Chantry and Jim Silva again to 276 thousand or one 800-242-2828 Jack your first good place for a possible lock. Well break down. Some of them are protecting power outages in and Bank not the if not bank failures then in accessibility of banks because of their computer glitch has stopped them. Okay, if people are starting hoarding cash or hoarding food may be a way to either situation would be if communities would what their pair and a They are preparing the storage of food and Loan loans available for people maybe this would relieve some of the panic in advance. Even if it doesn't happen people are going to be afraid that might happen and take take action and I was just thinking that a communal Humane approach to food shortages and shortages might prevent some pretty bad scenarios, like rolling golden gangs of Raiders and so on what what is being done to both alert people and head off potential panic. I mean, is there any effort to buy government or business or whatever to to make enough Advance preparations to actually avoid a Hoarding in the rest? I think from a larger corporate perspective most any of the companies that that you would talk to are more than just aware of it there. They've already initiated programs and programs as far as correcting the problem as well as is trying to set up contingencies. The contingency planning is something that I think we can take as a real positive banking Edwards the financial markets. Most of the business markets are playing on correcting the major corporations. I think we're well ahead and you're trying to correct these but they're also putting into account contingency plans that you know, if plan a for whatever reason does not execute. let's see if you were looking at a bank your ATM cards or something like that would stop functioning most all of the major financial institutions and so forth through or putting in contingency plans to try to handle those things. So what I'm suggesting is in the major events, hopefully we'll have an inconvenience and not a a panic situation into institutions in and they are well along in terms of addressing the year 2000 problem and they also have a well-developed contingency plans, but that if you read the headlines for today, the Federal Reserve just stated that they will add 50 billion dollars to their cash Reserves at your prepare for withdrawals in anticipation of your 2,000 problems. No other steps are being taken as well. Well as a practical matter should people plan to get their money out of the bank so prior to this event and then I can always put it back in if when everything gets settled down what you think. It's still a little too early to evaluate what the risks are going to be there almost 500 days left and I think we'll both get a better feel for what the problems will face on January one 2000 Accord the middle or fall of next year. I think right now it's it's probably too early to start to start developing those types of plans for individuals. I know one thing that gets my attention is the thought that this is supposed to occur after all on January one. It's usually fairly chilly here in Minnesota. Is there any danger of being ever so remote is there any danger that we won't have any heat come January one receive from utilities is that there is because of the work that they are doing the preparation that they are making there is a chance for a brown out but not a complete shutdown. That's the expectation. We don't know why. Going to happen the interdependency issues that will come after January 1st. If we have all of our utilities in Minnesota that have have met the compliance requirements in are able to deliver their energy. They issue is you know, our is the infrastructure going to work is the coal still going to be delivered to Minnesota will all of the train tracks continue to work. So they're stockpiling they're going to have their people at the facility on New Year's Eve in the event that there might be a glitch so they can do manual start up. So the utilities are giving us best assurances that they are doing everything they can to prevent it and you're confident that this isn't just a nice PR job that they're actually doing this and ready to go with us and not just papering over the proper tension problem. They are actually doing it. I don't have the papers with me that show the number of people wear us a MSP has stepped up who are specifically assigned. I believe it's a hundred of their personnel are designed specifically to the Y2K issue. They also are working with the federal regulatory agency and attempting to do make sure that the entire grid system across the United States is not going to fail David your question place in the microcomputer level that the Apple Macintosh platform won't have the Y2K problem. Even if it doesn't appear on the Screen of time it only leaves two days. The Macintosh always keeps track of the first two places. And the other thing is that this is wondering for some products placher VCRs in 57 or something or whatever might work. I don't know what you're that would be that would kind of repeat the last two days and we're doing like Saturday, November 1st, whatever 19 Whatever you would be of doesn't correspond to. The new year 2002 Vise what kinds of treachery you can use on the devices? What what I would generally suggest to you is that you call the parent manufacturer representative and ask him about the situation now, it's almost I was going to say do people really have to do that. Do they have to check into all of this stuff themself or can they expect that somewhere along the line between now and then somebody will come out with a nice handy guide and say here's what you do. Well, there's if you have internet capabilities capability there certainly a number of companies and resources that the deal with the computer problem micros. When you start getting into consumer items of the electronic nature. It's difficult to say at the office of Technology what we're really trying to focus on a little bit more of their critical systems that would really affect you in some cases of PCR might be considered an extreme cases critical to your to your business or what-have-you. But but typically that doesn't fall under the life and death scenario. So we're not or not life and death but the major inconvenience, so we're not really doing a lot of focus activity on that other than to say, you know, some of those might work on some of the might not but to be sure what you're doing call the manufacturer if you're going to the Bahamas on the 28th of December to be warm and avoid it and you want to record ER on January 3rd, you might not get response from your VCR. Is there an easy way to tell if your thermostat is one of these it's going to shut off. Most of the thermostats that are of concern of the programmable thermostats because they go they do have the date function in them. And the best best advice that we could give would be to look at who manufactured your thermostat get the serial number and call the manufacturer if it's a Honeywell thermostat call Honeywell and they will be able to advise you if it is going to be a problem if there's going to be a way to patch it or if you have no problem at all. There are 250 million people in this country that is it realistic to assume that all 250 million people are going to work their way through their home and stuff and make all these phone calls. I think that's up to the individual love household at certainly what you suggest is a scenario doesn't seem realistic. I think it most of the households when you when you start approaching the last half of the year. Most everyone is going to be inundated it enough but the information and the advertisement in the warning such as were doing this morning, I'll take a look at the more critical systems in and in those cases it's going to be heating air conditioning ventilation security system security systems. I think if you're if you're looking at garage door openers, you know, that's something that you'd want to take into consideration as well. I would recommend getting on the Internet a lot of companies are putting their Y2K a statements on the internet and that's probably the fastest and easiest way to get to start. Go to the library most the public libraries now are providing access to be able to get on the internet and they'll be able to check them out there. Mr. Kapasi do the manufacturers of these products bear any responsibility to get in touch with her customers and say Here's what to do as opposed to kind of sitting back and waiting and how long ago they sold products to their customers and I think that's an issue that will be part of the lawsuits and we'll see related to the year 2000 problem here expecting a good raft of Court business. Well Lloyd's of London predicts that the litigation costs that will arise out of the year 2000 problem will exceed 1 trillion dollars. I think that number might be a little high but it's going to be substantial they say it's a 300 billion dollar. Consultants issue right now, but it will be a trillion dollar legal issue morning purchased a computer two years ago, which at that time was the top-of-the-line. What could I expect in the worst case scenario to happen to that? Minnesota worst case scenario There's as they say different Varian degrees of worst-case thinking that in the Practical side of his just two years old without knowing anything about your computer and basically what rev level you have for for your internals in the Bios and so forth that your system would not function properly might not function at all in worst-case as they get older and I can affect the actual data. That's that you saved on your hard drive when you try to operate it. So if you want to look at the worst case scenario, that's what it would be but something that's 2 years old. I doubt very seriously run into anything like that. I think the issue would be to contact again find your Bob. Find the website for your software developers and find out if they are Y2K compliant. If you still have the package some of them are already putting it on there that they were your 2000 compliant. It depends a lot on what you are doing. If you're running spreadsheets at home. If you're doing your financing through home computer because your bank offers that service some of those records if the software is not complained or if the hardware isn't you could be in Jeopardy of losing. 227-227-6000 is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828 were talking this hour about some of the problems that are likely or could crop up as a result of the millennium bug that you heard so much about the Y2K problem. And if you'd like to join our conversation, if you got a question, give us a call two two seven six thousand one hundred. 242-2828 get some more colors in just a moment. If you're packing up and heading off to college in the next few weeks tune into sound money this week for some last-minute advice about managing your money when you're hitting the books. Hi, this is Bob Potter and my guess will be Financial educator roof when your resources are limited you need to do the right thing with every penny somebody Saturday morning at 10 again Sunday afternoon at 5. You're on Minnesota Public Radio kuow FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. Also an invitation to join a second hour of our mid-day program here. We're going to hear from Milton and Rose Friedman. Well known in the world that he can Amex they were at the Commonwealth Club recently talkin about economics their lives pretty interesting speech. We'll get to that over the noon hour today weather forecast for the state of Minnesota. Basically, it should be partly cloudy. There is a chance for a shower in southern Minnesota, but basically partly cloudy little cooler today and not as humid as it's been highs mid-70s to the mid-80s Twin Cities are partly cloudy. It is still pretty humid in the Twin City area high temperature in the middle 80s right now in the Twin Cities 79 and a sunny Sky elsewhere Rochester with a perfect body Sky 72, st. Cloud sunny and eighty Fargo sunny and 74 Sioux Falls cloudy and 76 +. Sunnysky 74° we're talking this hour about the millennium bug and how it could disrupt our lives are joining us here in the studio to folks from the State Office of Technology Thomas after he was project manager for the offices year 2000 project themselves with us. He's a technology expert with the office of Technology joining us by phone and Jerry house who is the head of the Year 2K team Leonard Street and deinard Law Firm that's been working on this issue again. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call to 276 thousand in the Twin City area to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828. As you said that that Lloyd's of London is talking about a whole a trillion dollars plus or minus in terms of legal repercussions from this problem. Can you buy insurance to protect yourself? Well, there are some policies that are available, but they're really we're not recommending that our clients pursue those Insurers are requiring that the potential customers go through an audit process basically to confirm that they won't have a year 2000 problem in at that point that I am not sure that there is a need for a policy and then the premium for available policies are 70% or something very substantial. So it's it's not not really a viable option for a lot of business is at this point. Is there any reason that individuals should think about getting some kind of coverage liability coverage? I just said we recommend that the existing policies be reviewed to to determine what what kind of coverage exists now when I talk to insurance companies about this the year 2000 problem there they're very frightened by this issue and they is they frankly like to get up and leave the room before they get engaged in the conversation. It's when we talked about the tree. Dollars in legal costs I think a lot of it is going to be in resolving weather insurance coverage applies to your 2000 Problems by using Don't Panic on the other hand. It sounds like a lot of big shots are panicking over this. There are a lot of people of January 1 mm to put yourself in a better position to avoid legal exposure and then minimize your risks and that's so that's what we've been engaging in for for almost 2 years now with the with all of our clients back to the phone at your question place next to comments. I work as a consultant in this area. I work from one of the major manufacturing companies. I have two suggestions for your listeners one demand from governor candidates that they have some comprehensive knowledge of this situation or have something on their Stefano something about it and has a position paper on it. I have tried to get all the governor candidates to respond to me via email with something. They indicated to me that they know something about this. I understand your printer said that. Colin said something about it yesterday. I don't know what it was, but I'm very eager to see what he said about it. So please listeners demand the candidates know something about this and have some idea about how they're going to deal with the problem because then it's covered and it's definitely be able to get the thing is it's not a bad idea for anybody to look at still look the FEMA and what they suggest in regard to dealing with any kind of situation natural disaster or whatever. It's not a bad idea, especially in this state where we have tornadoes and what not to have some kind. Disaster plan to that's your kit in the case of a blackout Brown at whatever and still even for people that I know that I really skeptical about the possible worst-case scenario. Even you should still be prepared for any kind of pasta. You could have a chemical spill or whatever. You might have to leave your home. You might have to live in your home. So look the FEMA and do some do what they suggest, It's not a bad idea. And then another thing I just wanted to say is that dumb. You're asking some good questions. I appreciate it. But I wish the producers wouldn't let people have to give up their personal PCS cuz this is so much bigger than personal PCS trailer and there are lots of things that people are concerned about including those. So, but anyway preciate your call. How do you prepare going to tell you I think Patricia's comments. Go back to the first caller who said, you know, we need to take a Humane approach. We need to help communities prepare. I was at a hearing that the joint house-senate hearing on Tuesday and one of the individuals testifying on behalf of the Department of administration cr2000 project office did discuss our did indicate to the public that there is an effort that is going on. That is this Governor is aware of the issue with this Governor is making preparations and is pulling together the Commissioners from Administration from the office of Technology from the Department of Public Service, which regulates the utilities. Electric and gas and the information infrastructure also the Department of Public Safety and there's talk of expanding that Beyond because Governor Carlson is looking at this as it is a major issue and his administration is going to deal with it. But what year did individuals do here in terms of start preparing is Trisha says essentially it sounds like she's recommending we get the kids together and the rest at least check out with FEMA's the Federal Emergency Management agency is recommending what would she should we have a bomb shelter or what? Tell me what what do we need to hear that? That is what we are attempting to determine at this point. Not necessarily, you know, how much food to stockpile and bottled water and generators in that sort of thing. I'm what I'm talkin about or what the what the administration is talking about is the contingency plan which is an effect of the folks at Public Safety who deal with civil defense and who did What the tornadoes and have dealt with the storms are gearing up to deal with this. Another thing. I want to assure folk some that the like the hospitals and the nursing homes. I'll have contingency plans are required by law to have contingency plans a couple of years ago that there was that tanker tipped over in Duluth in there was a gas that was being emitted about one block away from a nursing home in babe. They did move all of the individuals out of their based on their contingency plan for emergencies. If we don't have heat in a nursing home or hospital, they'll have to have a plan for vacating that hospital in moving those people to a location where they're going to be safe that is all being considered for going back to that first callers comment about Community communities will have to do this and that's what the office of a technology is going to attempt to do with small businesses and residents. Let's not have Panic. Let's work together. Let's have a Humane approach to this social issue and let's try to fix it. Well as you work on this day after day after day, doesn't it seem a little surreal to you. It sure does to me. Made it sounds like we've got some one of these things that Holly would be would come up with production that are the problem is that people really don't know the scope of of this issue where this year 2000 crisis and that's what they're trying to determine. So there's a lot of uncertainty out there. Occasionally, I'll come across that your 2000 programmer and who's he is in a state of panic and that the that creates some Panic on my part, but I think most people have this have the end of these the Right View and that is to try and address this problem and correct it before January 1 mm. We have some time and it said something that the where we can take some steps to minimize the problems having your question. Isn't that enough time to fix this problem? 500 Days enough? First of all, it's a good question. Secondly, it's it's hard to determine if that's going to be enough time. I think if if you're looking at a hundred percent certainty the answer probably will fall short of that. We won't be completely cured in a lot of instances. However again, when you look under the the umbrella that that you're you're starting to discuss right now, you're looking at priorities and priorities start out with the health and safety of the individual it goes very quickly into the environments that we really depend on being a being Financial utilities that type of thing so, To those types of issues. We're really putting a lot of focus and concentration on as well as the corporations and the utilities people like that that are dealing with it directly when you get down. Through the lines of of important it is going to be difficult to say we're going to be able to to cure everything by the year 2000. I think most most experts will say we're definitely not going to be able to touch everything. There will be a few surprises. I don't think we can get around that here again not to regenerate go through this but the contingency plan in this really Paramount to this issue if things don't work correctly are there plans that have been put into place that they can execute quickly that will solve the problem and those are the things that that everyone's working on Steve urak question, please. One could just set the clock had to see what happened. I've heard with even stand alone computers and certainly a network that's not a good idea and you just give us some guidelines on you know, when someone might try that when they wouldn't identify the thermostat manufacturer but on their website, they said that the car back up the reason I am going to start over here that website indicates that you should not move that clock ahead at this point. They are still working on resolving the issues with their various thermostats and that if you do move it ahead and wait the 10 minutes that it could cause a heating and cooling problem. So I would caution folks do definitely before you do just move that it had that you do contact either via the website or directly to the customer services. Representatives of that company to make certain that you don't jeopardize the Integrity of your heating plant. So it's it it really is manufacturer by manufacturer. There isn't a common test that you can do for each of those products. So check it out before you do it, please borrow your next. I have a question. Have you has anyone access on the world wide web that it's called y2m. It's a website and there's a lot of Doomsday or information on there. They talk about embedded chips that are below the sea and embedded all over the world. Can you comment on that original comment? I made when we first started to app. It was the reference to the embedded chips. These are in all kinds of devices and their aunt devices that we normally just take for granted that are simple and nature straightforward. You can look at something as simple as a sprinkler system or an elevator any of the HVAC equipment lighting. Those are the things that we take for granted that could be affected. When we have the the 2,000 change, so that's really a point of emphasis for everyone and it's it's hard to predict right now. If every one of these devices will fail or if it will continue to perform but maybe perform with a low variance off of its original and intended use I am the only way I think we're really going to be able to get into that. If you don't talk to your manufacturer's you like to do some testing little bit later on We Touch Tone is a little earlier and I'm guessing that it's extraordinary difficult to explain but I know you mentioned for example sprinklers. Now, why would they be dependent on what year it is? Can't can you explain that in a way that normal people can understand or is it just so complex that it's impossible to most of the most of the devices that have embedded chips are working off a Time sequence and you can look back at the two and four digit. It is a little bit more complicated because some of these are time dependent they do they do have dates in them. If you like it larger commercial buildings any of those types of structures. Typically, they're reasonably sophisticated controllers, which means you do have a Time sequencer for starting to get add HVAC, but You have the ability to disengage or to engage according to what day it is that type of thing sprinkler systems are part of the chain of events. They're going to be hooked into larger devices that are really Under the Umbrella the security system because you're looking at the ocean and prevention of Destruction Chris your question place a couple of comments for swallows. It's been very helpful program. And can I engage me into this issue? I haven't been engaged up to this point a real urgency and Panic by some some of the listeners and collars and that which kind of I don't know. Why is my temperature a little bit maybe but also I think the human spirit is a little bit more resilient in the sense that if something big comes down that's I think as Americans and has a worldwide Community we can rally around and work with things but to bring it back to it. Another maybe more basic issue is with all the information that we have in our lives that we store and stuff such on dis and so on. So things like that for instance. My job requires me to keep a lot of a word processing things on-disc know the stuff that's stored on disk. It's not necessarily on a program. That's just information on a disk is that then going to be affected possibly if if the program itself would be affected I would not be retrieved information. I'll hang up and listen. the answer could be a actually going to directions to start with in the worst-case scenario. Yes, it could be affected again. I'm really hesitant to try to go into any specifics because there are a number of different software programs as well as Hardware configurations in different manufacturers, which I'll tend to affect the situation that you just described sonosite Lancers Daniel. Not not in the sense of there's a blanket yes or a blanket no and under a certain circumstances. You really have to take a look at it when your system was was manufactured is it said earlier? What? Ralph's off of the ROM. There's a number of things bios. Then you get into the actual software program. I think for you. The safest thing to do is to check both the hardware manufacturer and the software manufacturer if you deal with both of those two environments before the year 2,000, certainly your your database should not be corrupted Jerry. I would think this problem is become infinitely more complex given the the explosion of the global economy and our interconnectedness now, I mean, even if we had our act together here in the US, everything was all on koduri all problems have been addressed fix and so long we're still vulnerable are we not to other countries that just not being up to Snuff? Absolutely and that creates a lot of concern here because I think people recognize that the US has it is clearly leading the way in terms of addressing the year 2000 problem in the Other areas for the world there are lagging behind. I want to go back to an earlier question. And that is that is there enough time left? Because that's a question that I hear whenever I meet with a new client and I just have a couple of comments about that. First of all, I used to work on before I became involved in your 2,000 problems. I used to spend most of my time on software failure cases what we found there is that for most is projects 75 to 85% of them did not come in on time or within budget. So people who assume that they're going to be able to address this problem. They have a schedule so that the ready by January 1 mm high would leave a lot of the cushion there so that tell you if there are delays you have time to address those the year 2000 problem is very complex because you have to address all your software programs in the way. They interrelated communicate. The second point is that there will be fewer and fewer programmers available or experts available to Correct. The problem a lot of people have put off addressing this problem to 1999. There will be an enormous demand for programmers. I've spoken to several and they say they're beginning to feel like rare paintings at an art auction. And then finally I even if you do go in and correct all the problems you have to be concerned about what those Corrections due to the operations of your program. Does it introduce new airs? We have to leave time to make corrections to those introduced here. So it's a very complex time-consuming process in 500 Days seems like a long time. But for this type of problem, it's not that's our office recommends, you know that they do triage a business needs to do triage and decide. What is the most important thing that they have to do once they achieved awareness of the issue and then they need to test And once they have tested and found that something is non-compliant, they need to remediate and even after the remediation they have to get they have to retest there's the story of the Department of Defense purchase 1700 new computers. They came in and this was part of their effort the federal government's effort to correct their Y2K Nine-Nine compliance. They tested eight of them and found that half of them didn't work until they tested all 1701 found that 40% of them were non-compliant, even though they were delivered as compliant. You know, I were out of just about out of time here, but you know, we were talking about the global nature of this problem, you're mentioning the defense department and all I can think about are accidental launches of nuclear nuclear weapons. I mean, is this a problem? The US and also in the Russian system in the Department of Defense decided to share information on what they're doing with our early-warning systems in and share that with the Russians so that they can address the EU 2000 problem and that used to be you know lights used to be put at risk to protect that information into keep a secret. Now, we're exchanging that information freely, which I think is pretty confident that even the Rogue states are going to get this information who I may have this information again, I may have a bomb or something and are all programmed in a related centerpin globally. It's in our best interest to share at this point could because this is truly a global problem and the effects as you were just mentioning. That come up in one area of the world certainly can affect us in the in the worst scenario. If you had a nuclear power plant that that had a severe problem. Obviously that affects everyone so sharing is is is very important what Jerry said earlier to is in terms of Manpower resources is very accurate as we get closer the people that are capable of handling these things are going to be pressed into service far beyond what you would normally expect them to be solved. If if you have the indications that you're going to want a consultant or something like that is soon as you can get involved with them up that would be in everyone's best interest. Unfortunately, we're about out of time but you can you assure people again, they shouldn't be running for the hills. Everything's going to be okay or actually an individual choice. But we want to assure folks that as as Government goes we are doing everything that we can do to assure that government services are going to continue to be delivered. You're going to get your paychecks at Sarah. We don't think anyone has to run to the hill at this point check-in. Thanks. Thanks very much for joining us, preciate it Jerry pod capacity joined us from the Leonard Street Diner Law Firm. He is the head of the Year 2K team at the law firm joining us from the office of Technology Town Centre a project manager and Jim Silva technology expert. I'm a little pain, JFK Tennessee Williams, Jack Kerouac and Paul Newman are among the cast of characters included in Gore Vidal's Memoir palimpsest of the last half-century and I can tell the people what they would like from my point of view. Of course. We'll talk about Gore Vidal Talk of the Nation from NPR news. Talk of the Nation begins at one time now for The Writer's Almanac