Susan Stamberg report on Miep Gies, a Dutch woman who hid Anne Frank and her family from the Nazis for 25 months before they were discovered on August 4, 1944. Gies was the woman who preserved Anne Frank's diary. Report is followed by Dan Olson interviewing Lucy Smith, a Holocaust survivor.
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I can like 8 minutes now past 12 programming on NPR is supported by motorwerks BMW in Bloomington offering a final shipment of 1998. 328i sedans BMW the ultimate driving machine. Good afternoon, and welcome back to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary I can glad you could join us. 54 years ago today and Amsterdam Holland the Otto Frank family was rounded up by the Nazis. They had been in hiding for over two years before they were discovered after their arrest. They were sent to concentration camps and only one family member survived. But diarrhea also survived and Frank's diary a document that has provided the world with a very human personal insight into the tragedy of the Holocaust today at midday. We presented a special report put together by national public radio Susan stamberg on Meep geese woman in Amsterdam who helped hide the Franks and later saved Anne Frank's diary for posterity. She is the last surviving witness to the Anne Frank story. Later, the shower will hear the personal story of a Minnesota woman who was also caught up in the Holocaust. But first, here's that report from Susan stamberg every year on August 4th meet geese closes or ignores the doorbell the telephone every year on August 4th. Meet geese Grieves for her lost Jewish friends. I'm Susan the living room of her small Sunny Amsterdam apartment is lined with portraits of me her late husband Ian and a painting of Anne Frank and everywhere framed photographs. Where is your boy? Where is Paul East Bell is this is christening this proud of it. His baby. She lives alone the bicycle store man downstairs checks in regularly 89 last February meet Jesus fed and quick and her patent leather shoes and snowy hair is color in her pillow cheeks, but a year-and-a-half ago Meep had a stroke another last month and has trouble putting her words together. Mickey's never told her story easily. She's a quiet proper person uncomfortable in the Limelight, but she has told it in recent years the story of the Frank Family the van Pelt and the dentist whom she helped to hide because she felt she had to tell it felt a responsibility to history. Now. This stroke has put stumbles in Her speech, but she is determined to communicate Cornelius International director of the Anne Frank Center USA came to her apartment right after meets first stroke when she couldn't speak at all. And then she moves to make another move at are pointing at the typewriter and then we shall left hand. She typed those wonderful words or I'm okay with your mom went to see where I'm okay, and she is inside her mind and memory are good muscles around her apartment course now her son Paul urged her to get help speech therapy. Oh, no, this is no I have never asked for help there. You have me pick he's giving help but not taking it 24 when she began working in Otto Frank spice and jam business 32 when he asked for her help as the Germans made life increasingly Bleak four Jews in occupied Amsterdam, of course, she said without asking for details, of course. She agreed to help the Franks go into hiding in the Secret Annex behind the office where she went to work everyday. Now we go to the office of me. Please don't hear so she had a front room and it would have been Sunny the office at 263 prinsengracht is open to the public now to recent dasilva shows us around and here's the bookcase. In the morning. I hate its first one to enter the hiding place in order to pick up the shopping list and various public appearances. McGee has described often at always in the same word how it was just swing the bookcase away from the wall each day open the door behind it and go up to that Annex. Nobody would speak just standing in line waiting for me to begin. It was always an awful moment for me because it showed how they bend it. This fine people felt on us silently look up to me. except for it Who in the cheerful tone used to say? Hello? And what is the news? But your mom's trying to take things a little easier think I need you to children need you on Broadway recently a new production of the Diary of Anne Frank miep gies was played by Jessica waling-waling went to Amsterdam to meet her mrs. Keys open the apartment door and said to the actress. Hello Meep when I talked with her about sort of her behavior. She said more than anything. She had to erase her mind before she entered the annex every day to visit them in and try to be as calm as possible because these people were so excitable that if she came in with any anxiety at all, they would pick up on it immediately and and she didn't want to upset them. Mickey's didn't just help the eight people in the annex. She and Ian geese he did a young Jewish student in their apartment made never told Otto Frank about that too. Dangerous didn't want him to worry, you know, 11 people depended on her to buy food and food. In occupied Amsterdam was desperately scares to get it sometimes took more than forged ration cards. If you look at photographs of made from the thirties and forties, she was a very attractive woman. Basically she flirted with the grocer and she's is 88 year old little woman and all of a sudden she turns into this coil very demure thing. And she said to me with an excellent actress apartment have been wrestling with her VCR meat is determined then I see a documentary she narrated before her stroke in her living room near Edith Frank's clock and a handsome wooden cabinet from Otto Frank. She begins speaking fluently and easily in Dutch on the video meet watches the screen intently at her side of visitor Allison Leslie gold in 1987. Allison convinced me to write. Autobiography she resisted at first remember all the small sturdy woman had ever wanted in life was to be a good secretary a good wife and mother finally meet did agree to work with Allison on the book with Ian geeses how they sat at a table near the window meet will wave goodbye to us from that window later and they pieced together. The Memoir Anne Frank remembered has been translated into 18 languages Allison. Leslie gold says Meep Keys has a dramatic story to tell but is always told it's actually an emotionally she keeps her feelings to herself. And I think this was something that helped her get through the war the fact that she was able to keep fear and anxiety and Terror, I guess to herself and just to act where does that come from? She was born in Vienna after World War 1 she was sickly undernourished her parents sent her 11 years old with a tag around her neck to a foster family in the Netherlands where there was more food Shuli the separation was traumatic but meat never talks about it just as she never talks about her beloved Ian or late husband's hat remains on her hat rack is watches draped over a photograph, but she doesn't mention it young meet thrived at home five children, not much money, but great kindness. They told her generosity. She never lived with her parents again. She was a good student a reliable secretary had a lively social life and was one of the first girls in Amsterdam to learn the Charleston she writes all this as straightforwardly as she described the Dutch Nazi coming into the annex with a gun. But there's one passage Alison gold helped me bright in which feelings do break through. The terrible war is over everyone in the annex has died except for Otto Frank who comes back from Auschwitz and lives with me band Yankees for 7 years. Someone sends Auto a present. They open it up and it's real cocoa and she smells it and she touches it and she bursts into tears because she hadn't seen Coco in many years strange have a very small thing can set off a rush of emotion after the war maybe could cry during the war. She had to be determined keep her mind clear sir. Can you help me find a place for the place? That was gestapo headquarters? Bitching about it didn't understand Fillion. So so that's goes in German and when you got going you did not know if you came out two days after the Frank family was arrested me. Please try to get them out and officer an Austrian like her said to come back the next day. She just grabbed that second visit in the oscar-winning documentary and Frank remembered I can't do anything for you because I'm not high enough. And I say stupid I don't believe you go to my boss and I go upstairs and knocked on the door and nobody said something then I opened the door and what did I see? Large table around the table high-ranking Nazis listening to a BBC Radio news broadcast. It was treason for them to be doing that the penalty was death and it was pretty dangerous for me because I saw what they did. And and I said we seek who is he the boss when men came to be pushed me out of the door East. And then I went down. and I feel according the curtain of this play was falling for me. Your Jewish friends were lost by some miracle. Mickey's was not arrested and back at the office in her desk drawer with the red plaid diary. She had rescued when the Franks were taken away. When word came that Anne Frank was dead turn the diary over to Otto Frank without ever having read it. In fact, you didn't read it until the book was in its second printing she felt it was so private and felt in her heart that she had failed even though she helped keep her friends alive for 25 months the month in which and wrote her diary the diary Meep saved. It wasn't enough Alison gold. She had a dream. I mean, they had a dream of one day going up to the hiding-place throwing the door open and gesturing and saying to all them now you can all go home and that was her dream and it didn't come through. Mickey's is thankful that she saved Anne Frank's diary knows what a legacy her young friend left. But always she writes every day of my life. I've wished that things have been different Mickey's wishes her friend had lived, even if it meant the diary was lost to the world. You're listening to a special report from National Public Radio Susan stamberg on Meet the woman who helped hide and Frank and her family from the Nazis and then later saved Anne Frank's diary when the Nazis arrested the franxx at all occurred 54 years ago today. We continue now with the second part of season stamberg's report. diary in Dutch add a book book is Diary risked her life to help the Franks and their friends. She could have been arrested in prison even killed 89 now in her cozy apartment in Amsterdam Strokes make it difficult for her to tell her story, but she has told it many times in talks public appearances an oscar-winning documentary and her 1987 Memoir Anne Frank remembered which begins with these words. I am not a hero people sometimes called be a hero. I don't like it. This is from a 1996 speech in California should never think that you have to be a very special person to help. So who needs you I hate myself. I'm just a very common person. I simply had no choice. I could foresee many many sleepless nights and a life filled with regret if I would refuse to help the Franks and this was not the kind of life. I was looking forward to the other way sleepless nights because maybe you're doing something that you might get in trouble for that meat thought she'd lose sleep. If she didn't do something dangerous Father John Neeman of Redondo Beach California has known meet piece since 1980 Father John says, she still has regrets about her lost Jewish friends. I know she said to me once she said maybe I should have brought and to stay with me to stay in my place, but that's hindsight. We are in the hands that and this is where me please lift and young face during the war number 25 from this simple brick apartment house. It was a 15 minute bike ride to the Secret Annex behind Otto Frank's office Meep a secretary and Ian a social worker rented ground-floor rooms here and here they hid again Adam in a young Jewish student iacobus a historian at Amsterdam's Museum of the Dutch resistance says this sunny neighborhood was full of Jews hiding. You see that the various women with that a little boy wasn't hiding their Jewish boy 3 years in this small room. He came from this neighborhood. He would look from that window and he could see his friends playing here when he was there. So all around here there could have been people in Hyde. Yes, the could have been people in hiding people went into hiding not away from the people. Among the people. This was the safest place to hide because the Germans couldn't go into every house and search every room 17,000 Jews and Frank's family among them lived in this peaceful. Leafy part of Amsterdam when World War II began only 4000 return when Mickey says she is not a hero. She mean several things first that there were many. You helped hide Jews and second that you don't have to be a hero to help anyone can do it. But in Holland then not so many did we are in the world? All right. Come on as hell. You're wonderful with you all dates for the Jewish shooting at War International director of the Anne Frank Center USA. He was 19 When The War Began and arranged hiding places for Jews South visited 81 Dutch families asking for help course out heard all kinds of reasons not to help really mean I have to put on a to choose up in my attic you make them fully dependent on you to take the shuttle first email but course out helped Mickey's helped many people did what she did have a malicious Holland most distinguished writer is novels the assault and most recently the discovery of Heaven deal with the memory of War what you had to do. Was necessary because other Dutch people did these ugly things the people who got them out of the houses police no drumming around. And then these people that brought to the Central Station by the streetcar driver and then this man who brought these murderers, but you brought them to the station. And that's how things worked. Everybody said we are against it. But everybody did Memorial list more righteous Gentiles from Holland than any other Nation. But according to the Simon wiesenthal Center Holland also had the highest percentage of Nazi Party members of any country other than Germany and before the Holland had 143,000 Jews only 20,000 survived there were 25,000 juice hidden in Holland less than half of them survived the percentage of Holland Jewish population killed with the highest in Western Europe. I understand that it was sometimes dangerous to know too much. Emmett Till I rushed to a window one block behind the Secret Annex where the Frank Family hid I stick my microphone outside. Don't you feel silly salmon? The bells of the westerkerk warm healthy photos cheerful living room 80 sprightly years old now heading worked in the resistance. She can't believe that most Dutch did not help the Jews in the world. I sold everybody's doing it because you're my family everybody did something. How do you think it's possible to hate Jewish people with Jewish Expressions Jewish faces. I could go with them by train. I could see people looking understanding what's happening. They didn't see anything those people they were a gooch. We couldn't have done it. If not, those who were around his had to keep their mouth shut as part of a group that protected Jewish children set up houses for them first in Northern Holland, then in the south in all they hit some 400 children and what about the risk the danger to yourself? You just simply had to do it. I think you would have done the same really your reason why you had to do something one day during the war heading out to got a troubling message the couple she just hired to care for some children could not be trusted. They only took the job to betray Harry and the children the Germans paid for betrayals heading that has sent word to resistance fighters who took care of such betrayers. She got the children away and then what she calls the liquidation the man was killed his wife wounded but their son escaped and went to the police on he found his 25th birthday. She was arrested by the SS. She spent nine months in a Dutch prison 7 in solitary confinement in a darkened cell then another nine months in a German Camp goats for murder murder and helping with juice. A conspiracy to murder. It is his own homes in livesafe needs a friend went to prison with her nickname Pooh and piglet young women made up songs about their miseries every Sunday afternoon when prisoners got a bit of free time everyone gathered to hear the latest Tunes. Lowe's Lowe's little girl, I'm just going to make me think that means our license go children and hold Nest food. At least nine. Please lice go away. Otherwise when I come home, I will have a bald head. It's all these kind of shity shity songs by Penny and her friends sing their songs on the truck that carried them from the Dutch prison to robinsbrook the German concentration camp for women after the war. She learned that men being evacuated to sobibor heard the singing as their truck pulled off. You know, she loves little girl loves you. Eddie Fountain Mickey's these helpers tell their stories because they must because they think it can make a difference the stories don't change but the world does people forget each month meet Keys get dozens and dozens of letters. She answers everyone of them German children's letters interest her greatly because I couldn't find the didn't tell me anything about DeVore. Is he always that distant past that is old but it is not true the Paschal always with you. Your whole life and we could learn from the past the old stories of how people helped and harmed one another bring all of us face-to-face with who we are and what we would do at the Dutch resistance Museum surrounded by artifacts from a past War. Yoga buzz says it's easy to ignore today's atrocities. I close my eyes all the time. I read newspaper about people in Faraway countries, and I still breathing because I'm bored around have got no time or I give money to charity and think about what can I do? Tell the story joke a bus that visiting museums or write the novels as Harry mulisch does at his Chic apartment with an attic with Jews once hid from Nazis the 71 year old author lives in a new Europe full of young people who envisioned a continent Without Borders. Why keep talkin about a 50 year old war only reason? What's the second world war the first World War II the first one? So this means that they shoot hope and pray that forever will be talked about the Second World War. Because otherwise, the fifth world would have been there. In her Memoir Anne Frank remembered Mickey's the last living witness the one who helped because the night the Germans surrender a flock of pigeons swooped and swirled in The Twilight Sky Under the Germans. It was against the law to raise pigeons. They might carry messaging the bird. She saw that night must have been kept hidden throughout the occupation now, I'll make this right they've been set free. They were like confetti thrown against the sky there were pigeons again above the roofs of Amsterdam. They were free and so are we I'm Susan stamberg NPR News Amsterdam You listening to midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio on this August 4th. 54 years ago today the Nazis found to Anne Frank and her family hiding in Amsterdam want to conclude this hour of our midday program. We're going to hear the story of Lucy Smith of St. Paul. She was a child when the Nazis started rounding up Jews in Poland her father obtained false documents for Lucy and her mother, but he and most of the other members of the Smith family were killed by the Nazis last year to Mark Holocaust Remembrance Day Lucy told Minnesota Public Radio is Dan Olson how she and her mother had during the entire war or taken to concentration camp. As So, eventually we were just two of us left. You knew this was happening the wrong. They had documents. We didn't know we didn't have documented the time either. So we were taken into the ghetto and we lived in ghetto part of the city is like in neighborhood. That was surrounded by fences or worse. so essentially the neighborhood became a prison from which we could not get out and said then from time to time if it were actions, which meant intensified Energy quiz, which Nazi were taking people around the time and sending them to concentration camp or killing them right there and people are just in panic. They believe to know kind of documented current Nazi were giving if they work here out there and that they would be safer somewhat longer and my mother never believed in it and we were hiding you didn't have enough food. I assume where the food was a poor quality was there running water? Yes, we had one faucet in the kitchen. And sometimes it will fight around the toilet, but I gather the Nazis were coming totally unannounced as you say you were living in what amounted to a prison and they were just taking people away, but it was not all the time. It was a special week or two or ten days a. Of time during which was that intensify action when they were going with dogs and at getting into apartment and but so we would usually be hiding at the time describe the hiding. What does what do you mean by hiding hiding even before we went to Decatur? And the first time was really a Nazi was administrator assigned by Nazis for a business that used to be my father and my grandfather's. And my grandfather was dead by that time but business still existed and my uncle would have been there. owner of the business but he ran away toward the Russia and he was taken into Russia, but even if he wasn't old Jewish businesses were taken and then just got no right to own the business anymore today a sign or kind of Administrators photos businesses our happened to be endocrine man And I would like to tell his name because he was such a decent person. I was Eugene set up. 1010 when the first action came and we didn't even know about it. He lashed very early into our apartment and told us to hide in the Attic. And he stayed in our departments to prevent anyone to come to the Artic. He was just a decent person and said it was so fun more times where he was helping us that way and 3 days since we nights into psychic and he was staying in our apartment because whoever would go to the attic would have to pass by the door of the apartment and he would lie, he would say he would lie. Yes when I'm going to schools. I use that I've had to and ask people what do you think? What is more moral lying or not? Like and because we have such a one-sided. Mindat, we don't look at our ethics from the point of view. What is really right and wrong? Why do you think he did this? I believe she was born decent. Can't have other explanation because he had nothing out of it. Did you get to know did the family get to know him at all? Yes, we trust him and later on one of my two uncles with a post shot bike Gestapo. It is store which was kind of like a cosmetic part of a drug store since whole family was already taken away. My mother got keys to this store. And we were hiding there. Now in order to hide their that was still before ghettos started we had to trust this man to Locust in because he came and he look at Sansa from outside. It would look locked and we had to trust for him him to come back when it was safe and open the door. He was also leaving a note for us by the window so we could take some information and Broadus Mt. There was no water there. What's up? You would hide for days at a time. And what kind of Provisions did you have for hiding you you had the clothes you were wearing know? What kind of food what kind of water did you have? And all around you it what was going on all around you as you were hiding. We could hear only that was later on when we were hiding in the theater. I ends in Coal cellar. So we could hear from that seller dogs barking and assessment screening shouting. But otherwise, we didn't know anything till we were getting out and so many people were gone absent. You had numerous hiding places then besides the shop the attic of a coal a cold then because we were just going back to the same hiding-place. Mostly this cold cellar, I which had camouflage Dora. It goes in the same house that was in Decatur left an engineer. And he got someplace equally. Dusty old bricks St. Rest of team What are sweat made of? And Tennyson said in Portland Maine fuel even to this day is Cole. Everyone at the Clift in a house with space for keeping this hold cold during the winter. So when are those spaces were transformed into hiding place by this engineer by building camouflage into door by building the same space throughout practically whole door except for small space between floor and the upper part of the two bricks. And that we used to get in on our bellies kind of snake like and the last person was Queen Creek behind a box full of coal to camouflage that space. Isn't that a good hiding place? This is a very elaborate and very ingenious hiding place never succeeded together into it. He was on his way when he was caught you were Now by now 8 years old and And you had a clear understanding eyes whom of what was going on that this was a life-and-death situation. For example. Children normally play for the wild activity beginning of the Life In the Ghetto. I played with few remaining children on the ruins of synagogue that was right next to the house where we lived. Synagogue was basically new and population Jewish population was very proud of it because they just build it before the war but did not see Dynamite. I saw they were just ruins and we play them this ruins ruins are always very attractive to children. But we were not allowed to do it too long because it's not see what shooting children when they kind of like a rabbit's on side. That's so it was very dangerous to play outside. You have been living in the ghetto. Now as you relate the story for months. it was almost 2 years and then my father go to papers. Add minutes to send us those papers to the ghetto. One day my mother was cold to the gate and there was a man who gave her those papers. And my mother got the papers. I also had a lot of lies there was a delight inkhouse de lauzun house at the twist partway in the ghetto and part way on the other side of the fence. It was kind of house on the border on both side of the fence. And so we went there saying that we need to get the Lowe post. And there was some people that were waiting for us on the other side and I arranged that the door was open. So we just crossed the Taos. andiron and that wasn't even enough to let the evening so they took us to the train station, and we went to war so with them we needed to get documents. Registration something that you still need to get in Portland when you arrive any place and stay for awhile even not long. You have to register in police station. And you get this piece of paper that you did that register. So we need it at first one saying that we register much earlier than we already did so we will be kind of fur long-standing inhabitants of Warsaw. And we were waiting for this group of people to arrange this documents. And as soon as my mother got it hit she decided to slip away and so they would not know whether we went because she was afraid of that. I don't know if it was right for you or not. and she went out and she simply rented a room based upon some advertisement on the Wall or sidewalk or whatever. So we lift our foreign maybe a year or so. How is it that you came to be blackmailed? Because it would people who have felt that that was a great way of making money spected someone regardless if it was or not. And they would follow us on the streets. They would come to our place. and ask to see our documents and to examine us and tell that How old do people do not get their men mostly a man that wanted to have something for a drink or whatever? I saw with the little money. We had my mother usually gave them something and try to get rid of him, and she she had very good way with people. even was Gestapo a long time before we went to ghetto. We should visit of to gestapo man and was the same two who shot my two uncles on the street. So I was petrified and I was in the room. My mother was in the kitchen when I was with one as I was with my mother. So hit again, I was not witnessing it. She told me later that he put a gun to her head and told her where are your valuables? Tell me. Where are you valuable speakers you will die. and she said we would all die. You would die too and you will regret your life in moment of your day is as much as I will regular tomorrow. And somehow she reached him. because he put away to scan and they left without harming us. So she use the same method listen to whistle those blackmailers and somehow. She managed to reach them. She must have been a remarkably Brave and resourceful woman. Nervous that they called. She was emotionally not always quite the right. before the war relatives didn't keep her in very high esteem. So she was kind of subdued. And then came war and o'hear. ability It was a really hard time. It was very strange, but she was quite special during the war. And Otis relatives didn't consider her so capable. They didn't minute she did so she was very very inventive and imaginative. She was able to think on her feet find the right words to say and Ray was wonderful, but then the war ended and he she returned in her poor helpless person posture. It's an adventure story. It's a story of survival. And so a morality tale. It's an amazing story. You were a child and yet you must have grown up very very fast. I guess I did. Yeah, that's a fact when I came back. I I was very bored with my peers so ice. I was mostly staying with grownups because team of five more interesting is the will to survive and what other lessons what other things come out of the store. I do think that we needs to be very careful. What we say? That words have great power. I'm going to school with story. And kind of cameras and TI I change and develop it according to what feels right feels right under something. I started to use. I drove a picture to this usually used in different Halloween of a witch. Because it has a crooked nose. Chin up in all that people consider to be ugly and then I asked children. What is it? So, of course they say which which which and I asked him. What do you know about which so they come with Otis usual? She's mean she rides a broomstick. She can throw a spell on you and so does things and then I proceed that telling them listen. Do you know that once? Ordinary women like your mother's sisters aunts and grandmother anyone. Who are accused of all the sinks and they would burn photos of sinks? And Heaven being burned for about 200 years. But the story is still with us and accusations of still with us. So if we use this type of accusations and finger pointing again to each other shopping in Washington now Who sings State and it is not done in the name of goodness of morality? It really is evil. When you have gone to schools and have told you a story and in your name has appeared in the paper people have responded to you and including people who spread hate what have what has happened. When I was interviewed after I was a guide for Anne Frank exhibition. Until a couple days later I got aunt is. I'm doing up that says American information center at the following address. There is no other following address. So what are those informations mostly the same state? Variety of literature stating that Holocaust never happened that it was invention of drawers. Aunt gets There was snow concentration camp. I think they would just baking but I had to tear. In or something like that. Anne Frank is a hoax and some places. So I called the journalist and she got it to her and we really needs to be more courageous and because people are composed of pretty decent people a really evil people and two masses of masses of Newser people who I don't want to do any evil Deeds. But they are afraid to stand up against someone that the dusters. Thanks. and I don't know how but Are we really needs to keep educating keep talking and keep on Courage that mosses had to take stand for something decent and and then the difference between good and evil because it is still the same kind of like an old play this being cut a play it again and a gain in the game so history. and I don't know if that is any hope but I hope that there is Lucy Smith, thank you so much. Nice to talk to you. If I come Lucy Smith St. Paul speaking last year with Minnesota Public Radio is Dan Olson is part of a special Holocaust remembrance voices of Minnesota program. That does it for our mid-day program today Gary I can hear thanks so much for tuning in would like to remind you that programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Glenwood Inglewood water clean fresh pure and plenty of it home and office delivery available at 374 to 253 special program coming up tonight. Hi, this is John Raby in tonight at 8 on Minnesota Public Radio. It's a virtual town hall meeting on crime drugs police protection things. You worry about on your block tonight's National Night Out thousands of you already will be outside talking with your neighbor. So we're going on the air at 8 opening the phone lines connecting block parties across the state to finding out what works and what doesn't in the fight against Crime bring a radio and a phone to your block party at 8. Listen to National Night Out on Minnesota Public Radio. 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