Thank you Gratis X minutes. Now past 11. Today's programming is made possible in part by The Advocates Minnesota Public Radio contributors include Margaret River's fund and Merrill Corporation celebrating United Way helping people everyday. And good morning. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm very active glad you could join us will starting today. You can officially sign up to be a candidate for elective office in the state of Minnesota Secretary of State's office began accepting filings this morning for congress the legislature and of course all the state constitutional Law Offices about 375 people are expected to file one person who won't be filing. This year is Roosevelt State Senator John Marty the dfl party's nominee for governor back in 1994. Senator Marty has of course been campaigning again this year for governor, but he surprised a lot of people yesterday when he announced that he has decided to drop out of the race Sandra Martinez come by today to talk about his decision to talk about the election process here in the state of Minnesota and take your questions. And so we invite you give us a call to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two for two. 282-8227 6001 800-242-2828 or guess this our state Senator John Marty Center. Thanks for coming in today. Glad to be here Gary you didn't surprise is a lot of people I think yesterday why not. It is a crowded field in there five other candidates even with your dropping out but why not stay in the race through the primary raise the issues that you're concerned about and given the fact there so many candidates. I mean it's entirely it's not beyond the realm of possibility. You could have won the Primary very definitely a night. I think that's the point in a 6-way primary. You never know what happens any one of the six candidates could have pulled it off with five. It's a little more it shakes things up a little bit, but I guess I I wasn't running just to raise the issues. I am proud of the issues. We did raise. I think it added to the debates and I wish there two other candidates talkin about some of those issues so I have no regret About having gone that far but they having said that there are other ways I can and intend to raise the same issues without running a campaign and it is certain point. You just have to weigh the the difficulty of pulling it all off because if you're asking people to volunteer their time make contributions you owe them more than just raising issues and we've got I've gotten a lot of calls this morning. Some women said she still wants to send the contribution in and she wished I hadn't is there anyway I'll reconsider and well no, it's it's unfortunate. But the simple reason for dropping I was not that I don't think we have issues that the public has been resonating very well with it's not that I don't think it added a lot to have me in the race, but the bottom line is money and in our modern democracy, we have a real problem in my mind and that is that without access to large amounts of campaign cash. You really cannot. Well, that's a single biggest factor in. At the building without the large campaign money, you're going to have real trouble especially in such a crowded field. Is it possible you you limited to donations to a hundred dollars. Is it possible to run a campaign Statewide campaign and in finance at that way, I believe it is and again the fact that this year this campaign didn't succeed in doing it doesn't mean it's not doable. There are several things that I did learn from that one of which is that you better get an early start. I think campaigns are too long already IMEI think it's really a great concern. We have candidates campaigning three four years before an election, but realistically when I got into the race last December there were four of their candidates already in the race and most every of one of which had paid staff people full year before I got in so I had less than one year. They had more than two years and that alone put us at a disadvantage. And if you're going to do the small Grassroots fundraising Style Did I insist on doing then? You're going to have to get an earlier start than we did but you know what the way to look at it yesterday. A lot of the reporters were asking me will you said you're dropping out because of lack of money and he are you restricted yourself. You wouldn't take any of the PAC money that obvious money that soft money any of the sources of the big special interest money. Do you regret that in my answer is simply? No I stand by that decision. I regret that it's so hard to do it without that. But you know, what democracy is a little more important than my candidacy or this election even democracy is something that we've gone through 222 years of it this or this Fourth of July weekend and they were still practicing it. We're still working on it. We're still trying to get it. Right and the concern I have is that we are going backwards in many ways. We don't have increasing voter participation increasing voter interest. We have decreasing half the people no longer vote why they don't think their voices heard up against the big Power. Special interests that are buying access so if we're going to fix that problem if we're going to take the money out and restore the public access to the system, we better start somewhere and I've tried two ways one is through legislation to take the money out into his by personal example in my campaigns and I don't think that's a mistake. I think that's what we're going to have to find a way to make that work not just for me but for every candidate because we've got to do that or we're going to lose the Democracy we have there doesn't appear though to be any very little interest in public financing of campaigns are there was a report that came out. I guess it was this way Corvair last week indicating that the check-off system which doesn't cost taxpayers a dime. Just patient in that program has dropped 209% some all time low. So if if you don't want big money interests to participate and the public doesn't seem to want to finance these campaigns. Where is the politician get the money they need to get their message of okay with are there two responses that one is that we have to recognize and I think this is a public education issue and it's a tough one because the public has become so cynical again with half the people not even bothering the vote. Of course, they're not going to check off a thing saying to put more money into campaigns, but I think Paul wellstone and others have pointed out that you could Finance publicly every campaign in the country for $5 a person and if you figure just to go looking at the stadium issue, which is a big one. I spent a lot of time trying to fight public subsidies there. Well that $5 investment in cleaning up government. So we're not giving some of these subsidies out. Would save taxpayers $20 for every dollar they invest in Queen campaigns because the special interest money does buy something it buys access at games people favored treatment that gained special subsidies at taxpayer expense and all of that cost the taxpayers big money. My feeling in Minnesota is we don't necessarily need a more Public Finance and we've got a fairly good system of that already. We just have to tie that in with taking out the other money and I've been trying to do both and that is heaven have a workable system and they have some public money in it and takes out the big money that's half the equation the other half real quickly as we have to find a way to get issues out there and get the forms in the debates going on out there without large campaign advertisements and and I think public radio is so the forums I had set up to do some interviews for it this week already NPR is going to be doing I guess over a six-week period one-on-one with the candidates they after they talking about Why we need a lot more of that not less of that and that helps take out the impact of the money in the process. You think people care though again that they're half the people don't even bother to vote and it isn't it isn't like we're overrun with listeners hear. It's well, you have a large instead then you may think sometimes you have a tremendously powerful and well-educated audience and people who do care they listen because they care and I was going to say that it's one of those chicken or the egg which one comes first. I think we have to do some of these reforms to get public participation up and we have to get public participation up in order to carry out these reforms so I think it's which comes first while it's not going to be easy. But again, I think democracies worth it and I think we got to make the effort one way or another to do it and that's a folder of public citizen responsibilities. It's a media responsibility and it's a newsmaker or public official response. How do you spell Senator John Marty is our guests this our Senator Marty announced yesterday that the he is not going to be running for governor after all that he's dropping out of the race for the dfl nomination for governor. And he's been good enough to come by today to talk about that decision talk about the political process in general. And if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call or Twin City area number is 227-6002. 276 Donaldson. I'll try the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free. That number is 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 West your first grade. Please put it to you from the beginning. I know that you've dropped out who will you endorse? Thank you for the support. I appreciate that. I am not making any public endorsements of any candidate at this time. I'm going to certainly be following and watching the race and Encouraging the public to do so as well. One of the roles. I hope to play in the next coming in the coming months is to try and keep the campaign clean and aboveboard and positive if I see candidates who are taking cheap shots unfair tactics negative attacks trying to point that out and try and call him on the carpet on its and help to keep the campaign aboveboard. I think their number of candidates who have some positive things to offer and so I guess what I'm going to be doing is watching with everyone else, but at this time, I don't intend to make any endorsements could you support any of the five dfl candidates assuming they all actually file some more than others? I guess. What I'm looking for is the the issues. I've been trying to raise who's going to come closest to that in and there are lots of good things in the candidates and when somebody ask me if I if there be write-in votes for me, I suppose there might be but I did encourage people to vote for one of the candidates who's in the Rye. Because there is a good selection of people and I think we can do well why don't you simply support the indoor of the party's endorsed candidate you benefited from the endorsement for years ago. It would seem like party endorsement and all the the money in the volunteers and so on that go with the endorsement would be one way to help somebody who's running a low-cost campaign actually become a viable candidate second part of your question spelled out what I think the party endorsement should be good for I don't think we should praise a party endorsement or a process of getting somebody elected more than then the debate of who would be the best leader for the state. And so I don't think we should put endorsement as a factor above everything else. However, it did point you made about how the endorsement process can help candidates with volunteers and help them in raising money when they're not taking the big money. I think that's exact. What I like about the endorsement process and what I'd like to see strengthened, I think there are some real concerns about how the endorsement system works in the sense that there so few people participating in the caucuses these days and there for a candidate who just simply Works a system for years at a time. Just getting to know everybody becoming everybody's best friend. You can predict to the delegates are going to be you just become their best friend and tell him why you're this I guess I don't know that that that I would give it as much weight is I think some would is some people clearly do because in many cases I was I've heard and you've heard I'm sure to that many delegates will not vote for somebody who will refuses to abide by their endorsement Isley final factor and four years ago. I pledged again knowing I had an uphill battle to get it I pledge to do that at this time again, I got in the race in December after therefore candidates in there and wasn't real solid commitment on any of their part to buy biotin. I said from the beginning that I was going to try and raise the issues and bring them to the primary voters and I do think there is some good variety of candidates in there and they should bring them to the primary voters. Do you think your party and Republicans for that matter? It was the Reform Party to our political parties too concerned about winning elections as opposed to standing up for certain principles certain positions on the issues. That's always a tough philosophical question. How much should you be concerned about electability and how much should you be concerned about the principle of the thing and why you should be running for office in the first place. I think certainly if you just ignore electability that's foolishness to just totally ignore that on the other hand. If you sell out every principle you believe in in order to collect somebody and we don't care who it is as long as it's one of our folks instead of one of their folks that doesn't serve the public either. I think it's a fine balance and certainly Think that any public official any citizen should want to weigh those two factors together. But let's remember that politics is a very fickle thing and trying to predict electability is tough. It's very tough. And there's so many factors that happened who would have guessed in 1990 in September 20th or so a week after the primary election where Jon grunseth and Rudy perpich who are the two candidates in the race at Arne Carlson who got beaten lady some counties was going to somehow or another get back on the ballot and win the governor's race in less than 2 months. You can't predict those things and those who way too much into the electability often make gross misjudgments and I think that's sad fact or so, I'd say go with your heart go with what you believe in in the issues. If you believe they have some make sense, maybe you can believe others might accept the same thing and if you don't have enough confidence in the merits of your issues, maybe you should re-examine what you News about the issues Jamie your question, please. The campaign financing issue a lot of the focuses on providing money for the candidates and their campaigns. Would it be better instead of focusing on the supply of dollars? Why not instead turn our attention to the things that the money is used for which primarily the most expensive seem to be advertising wouldn't be idea of public forums particularly alarm television cable and radio stations make more sense such as what they offer is United Kingdom what candidates are allowed equal time on these public forums to State their views clearly and without a lot of people on Advertising but they are all allowed 5 minutes 10 minutes on these various Outlet hit the nail on the head when I answered that question before from Gary about about how do you do it? So since the public doesn't like public financing I think half the equation is how to make sure candidates have clean money not by people who are trying to buy Play the system that clean money either small contributions are public financing. How do you get enough in there in a fair manner of distribution? That's 1/2 and the other half was I just stated very briefly, but you're right to raise the issue again is how do we get it there without more money and that's why I praised NPR's attempt to do that in a little ways by taking one issue a week and focusing on one candidate. I'm in there stands on it. I think that's part of it. I think more debates, you know for years ago when I ran, I I was eager to debate anywhere. I think that's a very valuable system for the public to compare and contrast candidates and I love debate. I think it's a healthy thing. And you know, I ended up going to places and speaking in debating the governor in front of forms set were his side of the political Spectrum the Chamber of Commerce, which is already endorsed him. I was speaking debating him in front of his audience, but he do it in front of an audience of environmentalist that I liked what he do. In front of other groups that care about the issues. I do know I don't think he refused to do that and trying to do it in front of broadcast audiences, you know, the last campaign 1994 about of the TV network stations in the Twin Cities, I think three or four of them offered and ask for a broadcast debate live debates between gubernatorial candidates and most of them did not have them why because he refused, you know, one of us stations that did end up having when I think the only commercial broadcast network that had a Primetime gubernatorial debate last time WCCO had asked us to do a debate and they said if you don't show we're going to have we're going to give your opponent the time without your rebuttal. What do you know? That was the one debate that the governor decided was worst participate again because they were going to give time to me if he didn't want to participate and he found the time to show up at that one, but no other debate. And so I think that the media there they should horn from that. All they have to do is say look. We're going to give you a chance to debate here if you don't want to show and they can be flexible for a couple of different dates. But if some candidates is absolutely not we're going to give the time Jaime's point is exactly right we can do it. We can learn from other countries in this let's have more opportunities for discussion for debate for speeches give candidates 5 minutes is he said on the are Primetime TV 5 minutes if people won't listen longer than that, but just break it up and one night every every night give 5 minutes right before after the news to all Canada to make their point on whatever issue unfiltered bye-bye sound bites and whatever the media wants to tag into it, if for these candidate debates and we can expect at least effort will be made to to I have them again this year should all of the candidates be invited the minor party candidates to or do you think although it's good in him? I want to hear their views that ultimately voters will have will will end up deciding between the major party candidates and that the minor party cannot just kind of Muddy the water. Well, I think they always do you think to deal with but I think you should do some of both I think there should be some just head-to-head between the weed candidates and some of them should have for him for everyone to speak out because you're right it can muddy the water if you have candida to you and I and everybody else quote. No don't have a chance met effect alarm will tell you that they know they don't have a chance but it is valuable to include them and get some for them for them, but it doesn't mean they have to participate and everyone. So I guess I died play a middle ground on that have some with just the weed candidates and some without your question, please thank the senator for his fine distinguished efforts in the legislature. And then I'd like to make a question or comment that goes with the last things that Ask by Jamie and stuff television networks, or I should say broadcast Airways and cable and radio Airwaves are all owned by the public. What I don't understand is why we don't take back. Those are way as in terms of since those stations have to be real licensed after so many years that we don't make them have a certain percentage devoted to public forums for these debates and such since more than 95% of that where they do broadcasters either entertainment or commercials. That's the one thing I don't understand is why we don't take that back from the public exactly right Dave. I think that that's a very valuable point in I'm always frustrated because of the state level we can't do that. It's not our State Licensing the airwaves. It's the federal government and they have given away a lot auctioning off of more parts of the radio spectrum. I think we're giving away a very very valuable resource with billions of dollars for four of us and it's worth and and given the fact there is a limited. Space on the spectrum they owe the public something in part of the thing. We've always treated it is if they have some obligation to do Public Service broadcasting you can find a lot of sports and music stations that have some obligations under Federal licensing to have public affairs broadcasting. I have appeared on some of the talk shows. They've had on those you'd be surprised Sunday morning at 5:30 a.m. Is when they broadcast their half hour of public affairs broadcasting every week who's listening at 5:30 a.m. Sunday morning. A lot of people especially to those particular stations and but that's how they do it to comply with the FCC regulation. You're right. Let's let's make those broadcast stations, which is been given much by the by the public like them fulfill their obligations in and I don't think it's too much to say that in the Democracy to work. We all have some obligations. We have responsibilities and corporate responsibility among broadcast owners. Is very clearly there? Yes, let's do that Gary your next crafts to see how I was wondering with a stadium issue. Basically universally agreed to buy all of the Democratic candidate saying that they were going to support public financing for any stadium and the largest city we have in the State Minnesota and mayor Sharon sayles Belton was very much for the stadium issue. How do you think she's maybe kind of between a rock and a hard place? Is it having the only candidate for governor the Republican candidate in favor of the stadium to that point or do you think one of the Democratic candidate so maybe kind of waffle on that issue or something? If once I get into the governorship, I'll hang up and listen. Okay. Well, I'm hoping none of the democratic candidates would waffle on it once they get elected and and I think that is an important issue because I'm very pleased that it's taking a long time for them to come around to it. But now I believe every one of the five remaining candidates to the dfl candidates in the race are opposed to these public subsidies for sports facilities. And that's one of the areas where I feel we had some success in shaping the debate that one and cashews related to gun violence and so on. I feel I had some say in shaping the nature of the debate. So I'm Please it all of them are saying that well, you say mayor Sharon sayles Belton will beat stuck because none of the dfl candidates are supported a donor Norm Coleman is on the other hand. That's a lot of politicians are confronted with that kind of dilemma. The Republican candidate for State Treasurer. Kevin night was a strong opponent of of taxpayer subsidies for sports facilities, and he's flying everywhere with the head of his Republican ticket Norm Coleman and they're on opposite sides of the issue. And it does that mean he should vote for dfl candidate for governor, maybe so it's a tough one and nobody's going to be with every candidate on every issue. But I'm hopeful that they'll stay committed to their opposition to it. I just believe very strongly that that it's not the proper role of taxpayers and and I was thrilled in our debates last week. I did have a chance cuz one of the moderators ask do any of you folks think there's any rule for the state. I'm keeping the twins in town and I jumped on right away and said you bet there is just that with public money because I think public officials can service Community leaders. Go back to the role of Rudy perpich. The one thing he may have done better than anything that sell the state on people try and recruit businesses recruit people give pride and in the state then he really did a lot of that going around the world trying to recruit and promote Minnesota governor in public officials have a responsible rule to try and work in keeping a team here because it is a public asset just do it without the taxpayer funding and I'm very hopeful that all of the dfl candidates will stick with their commitment now to oppose that I don't want to bog down on the stadium issue, but one quick question on that, you know, there's a lot of talk now of the new Vikings ownership and there's at least talks going on trying to keep the twins here for a while at the Dome. Would you support a plan which essentially would say? We'll let the leaves change. Is the dome for free the state will simply pay money to keep the Dome up as a public facility. I guess they don't like it. Well, then they can go away. But I think I'm the I think that they we should make sure they have at least that that's responsible and reasonable. I don't see any reason the taxpayers should be subsidizing it. I think fundamentally the problem give giving them a small subsidy instead of a large SimCity that's not going to fix their problem. I'm convinced giving a large subsidy just drives the problem worse. Let's let's cut off the subsidies if if they can operate the Metrodome pay off the remaining debt switch. There is Money in the Bank to do if they can pay off the remaining dates of the Metrodome and then they can operate it and promote the Metrodome some other way. That's not going to cost taxpayers money. Hey, I have no objection to them having a different kind of lease agreement State doesn't have to be trying to make money off of it. Let's just try and make sure we don't subsidize it because Basically, your question would be should we give a small Sub City to them in my statement is no small subsidy just makes him come back and want more. Let's have them fix their own economy and take responsibility for it is under John Marty is our guest this our he's been going to come by to take your questions. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call to 276 thousand in the Twin City area to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 802-422-8028 that are Marty surprise lot of people yesterday when he announced that he's not going to run for governor after all and come by today to talk about that decision again to 276 thousand or one 802-422-8280 get this more callers in a moment. I'm learning Benson on the next all things considered the legislature couldn't sell the feedlot controversy last session. So now the public takes a turn at the first of six public comment meetings. That story on the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio know FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. Looks like to have you join us over the noon hour today. There's a new report out today from a group a coalition of business groups government agencies, nonprofit organizations, which studied the local media coverage and found it wanting and as come up with some recommendations on how the news media should perform improve its performance and some suggestions on what the public should do to try to encourage better news coverage of Kirk Johnson will be along these the chair of that project will be long over the noon hour today to talk about the findings at the group came up with that's over the noon hour today programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Ecolab A supplier of cleaning and sanitizing products and services are the cloudy skies are forecast for the state today. There is a chance for some showers and thunder showers as usual highest today mid-70s in the Northeast mid 80s in the southwest 30% chance for a thunderstorm with a high near Right now it's 76 and partly cloudy in the Twin Cities. We have some rain at Duluth 59 Saint Cloud cloudy and 70 Rochester sunny and 76 Fargo partly cloudy 73 Sioux Falls with a sunny Sky 77° lots of callers on the line with questions for Senator John Marty again, if you'd like to join them to 276 thousand or one 802-422-2828 Terrier next the environmental form at St. Thomas's very impressed with your comments. My question I have a couple of statements and questions one is do you think that part of the problem is that you know, I believe you're a trustworthy person and you're honest and straightforward and that scares some people and that's why you can't get the votes. And secondly, I'd like to hear more about the environment in our campaigns and that doesn't seem to be a main issue with even though it's a big part of the democratic platform. Thank you, Terry the first half of it. So I hope that's honesty is something that says it's the best policy and public policy and many other parts of life. I'm proud of the issues. I raised and I try and do it in a very straightforward and forthright manner. I still remember the st. Paul newspaper endorse my opponents in an editorial four years ago in which They said I was honest to a fault but suggested that was at fault. I think there's lots of honorable and honest people in politics. So I don't want to I don't want to make too much of that sort of thing. But but I do try and play straightforward and I think that the public is best served if public officials do that. Let me ask you this is a slightly different take on that same question. Do you think too many candidates without naming names here too many candidates promise too much as they travel around speaking to various groups by golly if I'm elected. I'll do this for you and I'll do this for you and you know, you add it all up. And of course, there's no possible way any of this or much of that will ever get done. Yes. This is exactly right in the interesting thing of it the most of the promising they've learned not to just keep saying this and they set themselves up for people who will say that so what they do is they say, I've got the responsible plan and I've paid for and I've calculated all out. The dfl opponents Ted Mondale. So he's put out a book to say how he's paid for everything. It sees other candidates who is throwing the last week in a debate. He promised laptop computers for every 9th grader. He's got a couple years of free college tuition for most kids. He's got a whole slew of things. I keep thinking, you know, if you've got a lot of these things and they really do balance out. I'm not sure how they always do but you better watch it then because they are the ones who start accusing everybody else of being frivolous with the money and spending it Every Witch Way and you know for years ago, I didn't accuse my opponent of doing that sort of thing. I actually spelled out some things. I wanted to increase spending on and offered some obviously very unpopular ways of paying for him, but I spelled out how it was going to do it and still you know, what they did with the governor took all the numbers. I hadn't double them all and and added some other things to it and kept going and adding up numbers. They were playing funny games to make it look worse, and I had actually balanced out the numbers. And I guess I've been really frustrated by that something when I say there is lack of honesty when candidates are going out and accusing other people of doing the same thing they are and let's go out and you promised this and you promised that you promised everything to people and then you say hole but my number is balanced and they don't and in the public ought to be very skeptical. I sometimes think the fewer promises in the more sense of direction. Somebody's offering is is something more valuable for the voters to listen to environmental cover environment recovered by Rihanna, and I'm hoping that again I had my interview set up with NPR reporters going to talk to each candidate for an hour and a half or two and then take segments on each of several issues for one week at a time and I'm hoping and I believe in that series or was going to be some discussion of environmental issues State Bar Association had an environmental debate up in Duluth a couple weeks ago and about the third or half of the candidates showed up there and I think Terry's right we My opening statement there when they ask what's the most important environmental issue I said it was sort of a change and what's acceptable we right now we act as if sustainable agriculture on the sustainable development policy and sustainable energy policy is some sort of radical idea. Actually what's radical ideas what we're doing now and that is not worried about our grandchildren and their grandchildren and whether we can sustain the policies were doing so I think you know, the public actually likes environmental issues. They strongly supported and that's one of the areas where Money Talks because the public is with the politicians who want to protect the environment but a lot of the campaign funders not so fond of that and that's where they took the process away from the public interest. Follow your question place. Yes, John. I wanted to thank you and your wife Connie for it the efforts that you and the family. I'm sure I gave her that she has run but getting back on. Debate issue I noticed that one person was noticeably absent supposedly on vacation supposedly waiting until the Democrats and sort it all out and to Jessie Jessie. He's a credit he was responsible enough that he thought a form is where candidates belong and he went there despite the fact that he's already got the nomination and there's no one opposing and not waiting for September. I I don't trust people that say all wait till September and then I'll participate in all the debates you want and I know that the Republican candidate is someone who likes to talk about visions and big picture and hates getting into details because that's when he's going to lose the votes. How can we force that I mean the governor's race is certainly no place for a Rose Garden strategy exactly. What I think of your Norm Coleman seems to be doing right now. I will guess that he is going to do we're what you called a Rose Garden strategy just like the governor tried for years ago debate in front of any group of 20 people so we can say we had this many debate just so it's not broadcast anywhere just so it's not accessible to the broader public just so it's in front of groups that I want to have them in front of and I it seems to me I told somebody the other night when Coleman again failed to show up at the Forum that I don't think he's going to agree to any debates until the last week of October just because that way we can say well we're really busy until then and just happened to be out of town and no INE candidates going to have to miss a debate or two along the way but there been there been a dozen debates in the last 3-4 months and I don't think I've seen Norm Coleman at any of them in. Hey, you know, if the voters in the media don't pin them down on that the other candidates can only do it so much cuz I've heard ya candidates from the dfl and the Reform Party is pointing out that you know, where is he? Why doesn't show up? Why is he what you scared of but again that's seems to be the strategy just run gushy commercials and and don't focus on any issues and the public won't have a chance to scrutinize them on the other hand. If you are Norm Coleman, why would you willingly go to a place where there are eight other seven or eight other candidates all of whom are going to spend the two hours beating up on you and trying to drag you down as opposed to legitimate discussion of the issues, which is not likely to occur in that circumstance. Let me let me first of all challenge that promise because until June there were a number of candidate forums where three other Republicans would show up at these things and It wasn't all ganging up on one person. It was only a lot of candidates in both parties. If you want to look at it that way I've noticed in a lot of the forms at skip Humphrey shows up with these things and in a whole lot of the Other Fellers are beating up on him because they sent these the front runner and I mean two shots and he's up there against three four people taking shots at him and he still shows up and I was going to say why wouldn't do this well because maybe you think that the public auto know where you stand on the issues and you ought to be willing to do it and if he says hey, I'll take on any one of them or I'll take on a group of two or three of them and frankly if everybody beats up on him too much. He might get some sympathy out of it. So I I don't I think the candidates have an obligation to to be willing to talk about the issues and that doesn't mean it's going to happen. But that's where the news media and the public audit demanded, you know, if people speak out about it. It's the same thing with the money in politics issue when I go out there and and say here I'm going to do without any of the big money. I know it's can I know from the start is going to be tough because but I think it's the right thing because we got to take the special. I just called out so I'm going to do it. Anyway. Well, if nobody's ever going to reward you for it if the media and everybody just ignores the adage. It says it's some sort of gimmick if a candidates willing to debate is Skip Humphrey has been to most these debates and willing to show up and take the hits. You got to reward people for doing the right thing. If not, they're going to just say why bother I can win the election by not talking any issue just all fluff and non substance. So I think again it is a responsibility and you know, I've been an incumbent state senator for a couple of campaigns now and and I've always been willing to debate. My opponent is many debates as they want to set up. I I will show up at him and does it help me because my opponent more exposure but frankly, we have an obligation to this democracy of ours. We are not supposed to be first and foremost out for ourselves. We're supposed to be out for the system and making our government work. I didn't your question place a little bit this time. I wanted to make a couple of comments on financing voter apathy. What is that? That's clearly money is is it is probably the single biggest problem in the whole campaign process the amount of money it takes two to raise the amount of a reasonable campaign against though, you know relatively well known incumbents. It's just just a sounding I've got to I'm running against Obama in incumbents and there's $19,000 and up in a house district in Minnesota last I checked and if you just want to send a letter just just a plain old letter to each one of those people. You're talkin over $10,000 that I've got two cops right there and Oh, I raised $9,000 last time around including all the public subsidies and my opponent raised about twice that and there's no way I can know I could raise the $20,000 whatever it would take them out to a credible campaign clearly is something broken in the system here because it's just impossible to mount a credible campaign without getting a lot of money and the way to get money is to basically buddy up to the to the special interest groups will give it to you in big chunks. You can't get it from individuals anymore. I think the public apathy is the voter apathy cuz you know, you have been Minnesota the deal where voter can make a contribution to any one of the state's office campaign up to $50 and get that money refunded from the state. And very very few people do that and it's very hard to talk people into doing that. This is Dan. Whoever Dan I didn't catch my last name and don't know where he's from don't know party or any thoughts from Rochester. It's nice to get to have a case where you don't know who the person is or what their party is or anything cuz then you can talk without respect to party things. And and I I think band race is very much the right point. It's a very difficult thing to raise money and to keep the clean money in and get rid of the other money and yet that's what's Minnesota's the best in the nation. They say in terms of campaign Finance laws. I'm proud of that. I helped to work on a lot of them and then so whenever I try and criticize the money and politics people I was it while we got one of the best in the country you admit it yourself. Well, that doesn't say as much for Minnesota since it says something about the rest of the country and how backwards our whole political process is and what all I can say to Dan is yes keep explained. The people how it works in the importance of it and you know, if people want to give up on their democracy is not going to succeed and half the people have already given up. It's that serious of an issue in and all I can say is to Dan and candidates of every party who put their name out there and try and do a good job more power to you and they deserve some credit and some reward for doing the right thing and and money does talking and I can give you example after example and and because it's a popular issues. I've been driving home the point on for a long time. I've tried to say, you know, I quit this hockey subsidy that seven of the nine owners of the hockey team that got this 49 million-dollar subsidy from the state seven of the nine. We're generous contributors to the mayor to the governor. They both political parties, they make contributions. They get something in exchange for it. And I think the public ought to be outraged and if you want to look at it that I've been saying it all when we were talking about who's supporting and who's opposing stadiums will look at the team owners Carl pohlad Glen Taylor. I don't know if Red McCombs is made any campaign contributions in Minnesota yet? What do they give money to and then you get a sense where they think they're going to get the Best Buy and where they think they're going to get the subsidy and I think the public are to be outraged and Dan and his campaign. I wish you well and trying to raise money and it's a tough thing to do and and you deserve a lot of credit for trying to make our democracy work. When you bring up the issue of big-money aren't you? In fact feeling this public cynicism has the implication is and I know you you emphasize that people aren't buying bullets They Do by access in essence, but you know that I think the difference in people's minds is is is a fine point is a very fine. Right. And so the next side is it in a process is what they're all Crooks and so why do I care about any of this and and and that's always the risk and then this one of the issues it's difficult about raising this because every time I say something about how you know money talks and politics and it buys favor zit buys accessed by his Goodwill and that buys favorite treatment from government and very great expense to text. If that does make people more skeptical more eventually cynical about government, that's a risk, but I think the solution is not to cover it up. It's not to say well we will just ignore it. We don't want to talk about that the public might go away. I had a lobbyist disclosure Bill last year and I wanted to require any lobbyist professional obvious. You were paid to try and influence us at the Capitol to require any campaign contribution, including those of $100 and less to be disclosed one of my colleagues if you know what if I got a hundred bucks from a lobbyist to just wanted to support me and then I voted for something that lobbyists favored. You know, my constituents might get the wrong idea that I was bought and I thought so the solution is don't let your constituents know, you know, what's think about this? Yes, there's a risk the public will become more cynical. That's why those of us who care strongly about it have got to be upset and angry about the way it works but not cynical not turn off not say I'm not going to bother to vote and not condemn the people in the system is crook the politicians of either party. I don't think one of the candidates for Governor in any of the parties are Crooks. It doesn't mean that they're not influence corrupt. We buy special interest money is a corrupt system, even if they're good people in the system. That's why we have to tackle it and it's it's never going to be an easy thing to do. But no, I don't think we should duck talking about the issue because it might make some people more cynical just about out of time here. So put your put your analysts had on if you would please what are the what what are the one or two factors that are going to settle a decide the dfl primary? Well, I think certainly there's going to be a ton of advertising in the Republican party can't who doesn't have that is just running ads already know the money is going to be a big factor with some Humphrey. You certainly got the best no name and he's got an impressive record of other things Freeman has gotten the whole list of endorsements each. One of them has their own Niche Doug Johnson from the real gun anti-gun control type of form. He's going to have that nich. So each one of them has a chance of pulling something off. I don't want to guess who it is. I think it's too much of a wild card yet on who's going to win that. I think any one of the candidates could conceivably win if you see anyone deciding factor terms of an issue or not at this time. I'm not at this time. I don't see any one factor that's going to do it could end up being a landslide for one of the candidates or another but I think it could very well be decided by a very small margin and I hope it is Dfl or one who believes that we are as a society can build make them at work for people. That's that's you know, what universal healthcare we limit the debate so much when Paul wellstone offers a plan to provide Universal Health Care to people 70% of the public supports that but if the capital that's not politically realistic what's get beyond that and our party does stand for those things. I think some of the candidates do I hope that those issues become the decisive Factor by Center appreciate your coming in today. I guess. This is our state Senator John Marty who announced yesterday that he's not going to run for governor after all after the race and since December but ultimately decided not to move on to the primary. This is midday. Come on, Minnesota Public Radio will continue in a moment. I'm Ray Suarez in many states victims of crime are guaranteed the same rights as criminal defendant President Clinton wants to change that when someone is a victim he or she should be at the center of the criminal justice process. Not on the outside looking in setting national standards to protect the rights of Crime Victims on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. Talk of the Nation begins at 1 over the noon hour today, we're going to look at the quality of news coverage in the Twin City metropolitan area right now. It's time for The Writer's Almanac.