Pressures from the Asian financial crisis, it has condemned India's in Pakistan's nuclear tests and called for a coordinated International effort to stop further nuclear proliferation and it has lowered tariffs in a bid to join the World Trade Organization. All of these issues are expected to come up at the summit along with us concerns about human rights trying to may still not understand what it sees as a u.s. Obsession with that issue, but it's more willing these days to discuss it Jung. Yong Hong is a researcher at the China Institute for international studies a government Think Tank channel is the aware that our human rights records at night every country in the world. That is not perfect. I'm sure that the human rights situation in China what improve resume with the development of our society and economy does the u.s. Focuses on human rights young says China.Casas en Taiwan it is the China's consistent position that power issue is the most important and most sensitive issue in San Andreas relations. I want is a renegade province that must be persuaded to rejoin the motherland much of China's diplomacy consist of getting other countries to ignore Taiwan, or at least not to encourage it and its bid for hire International profile with China's leaders want the us to do is stop bending the rules of 3 Communications concerning Taiwan that the US signed years ago. David Shambaugh says the Chinese have got a point with that because Taiwan has sufficient Weaponry for his own self defense, which is what the Taiwan Relations Act mandates that Taiwan is having difficulty absorbing all the high-tech Weaponry. The United States is selling to it.On Taiwan or other issues are expected at this Summit, but China's leaders say that with continuing dialogue. There's a chance to work peacefully through differences and to build a pragmatic partnership that can serve the interests of both sides national public radio's. Mary-Kate mag said, they're reporting from Beijing with Richard Moore is with us now here in the studio to discuss the president's visit fresh herb, or who is just back from China is the director of East Asian studies the College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University as we know that he's the former director the Midwest China Center former executive director of the Minnesota World Trade the office and we invite you to join our conversation this our give us a call 227-6000 or 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828. Welcome back. I have you recovered from the Jet Li again. Well Gary, it's still too soon to know.In China with a crew from kcca to do a piece on us China relations, generally and specifically Minnesota relations with China, especially our sister province of shaanxi of which the city of Xian is the capital and from a sheet on WE initiated a a teleconference between some citizens of that City and Minneapolis. So we had a group of minnesotans and a group of Chinese a talking together about some common issues. We also examined some of the themes that are currently important in the US China economic and diplomatic relations. And those issues will air on the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer and our own ktca Newsnight.Soda this Thursday. So this is part of a project initiated by your old friend, Nick Hayes and to Hamline University along with the Star Tribune that ktca and I understand that now NPR is coming on board along with the my institution and Carleton College in the University of Minnesota. It support Foundation that sponsored project to see how we can better inform the public by getting a academics and journalists together to try to understand better China and us China relations specifically as well as some other international issues. Generally, what's your sense is? This is the present strip just largely a symbolic visit or can we expect some substances? Well, I think if we look historically Gary at the interaction betweenChina and the outside world through the centuries of the Chinese always begin with symbolism. They believe that symbolism leads to real significant the substantive accomplishments and I'm sure that is the case. Now the fact that the president is going to China over a nine-day. As your piece at the outset noted. He will visit five cities. He is taking 1,000 Americans with him gives the Chinese a great deal of face. It says in in a very powerfully symbolic form that the Chinese understand that America takes trying to seriously and we are acknowledging that China and the United States will be pillar Partners except for the 21st century. What does it say to the Chinese government in the Chinese people that President Clinton has agreed to be officially received at the right at the edge of tenement Square.What it says is that the president acknowledges the long sweep of Chinese history. The Chinese emperor has received their honored guest at the Gate of heavenly. Peace, or as they call it TN on month for the past 500 years. So I think in this case we have to see beyond the immediate situation of the Tiananmen tragedy of 9 years ago and look to that longer sweep of the Chinese history and the history of China's interactions with the outside world. So you don't think they do Chinese people are the government for that matter will see this as some sort of absolution of what happened 9 years ago with the massacre. No, I don't because I fully anticipate that the president to make comments. If not at 10 on Monday and certainly along that long itinerary to the effect that the United States uphold certain funding.Basic principles and the Chinese are already well aware of our position and I'm sure he will reaffirm that position as you well know. There's been a lot of criticism in this country. A lot of people suggesting that President shouldn't even make this trip given China's human rights policies given the Chinese military situation this controversy over Chinese contributions still the political campaign 1996. Is there any sign real evidence that our policy of Engagement with China has actually change Chinese policy in anyway, I think you see it in many areas. Carry. The president's main impulse has been to try to move a us China relations into a multi-dimensional and multilateral context that is to get our bilateral relations in the center ofGlobal interrelationships so that whether it concerns trade and investment or human rights or legal issues. Now the Chinese are interacting what much more fully and they're much more engaged within a global context rather than just within a us China contacts and we see evidence for example of China's having signed 1000 International agreements which spanned a whole range of of non governmental and nonprofit and educational and cultural protocols, which are a strong signal to the outside world that China wants to be a responsible leader for the 21st century. You don't get the sense that they're just playing is for suckers here using us to take advantage of the trade opportunities and so on that we offer and not really giving anything back in return.No, I don't because I already there are the Chinese have made some significant concessions on the trade and investment front are they certainly have in the areas of friction which hampered our relations up until very recently for example in the area of copyright and patent an intellectual property protection many of these issues have receded as the Chinese have signed International agreements. So I think we are seeing that steady movement perhaps not as quickly as many would like but you know China looks at the world through a lens of five thousand years of recorded history. So I think that one step at a time as the Chinese themselves say Ebu Ebu Richard bars are guess this hour, he's just back from China man has been good enough to come by today to look at the president's visit what we can expect.Give us a preview of what's going to happen over there and to take your questions. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call Professor. Bohr is director of East Asian studies of College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University former director Midwest China Center. 227. 6000 is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand. Side the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free had one eight hundred to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-422-8288. Meg said in her report indicated that really there's only one issue to hear that the Chinese are particularly interested during this trip and that's the issue of Taiwan. What is our policy toward Taiwan. We only recognize One China these days, right? Correct. And as Professor Schaumburg noted in America's piece. We have assigned three major agreements.At which acknowledged that the United States recognizes One China that Beijing is the capital of the one China and that Taiwan is part of the one China. He also notes that we have signed an agreement that indicates that should Taiwan be threatened or should the United States feel that Taiwan is threatened that we will provide material for the defense of Taiwan. So we we we continue to treat Taiwan as a province of the Mainland, but they get to be separate. Well, our official position is that Taiwan is part of China, but that we will not tolerate any undue attack or harassment of Taiwan. You may recall Gary. I know you do recall two years ago March when during the presidential election on Taiwan,Couldn't move the 7th Fleet between China and Taiwan in order to discourage the lobbying missiles from tie up from China to the shores of Taiwan. What would the Chinese like to see us do in regards to Taiwan? I think I think they would like us to be quiet just not get involved at all. Right cut off all alarms sales in the like what the Taiwanese are. Well, I think that they question of arms sales continues to to rankle as Professor Shambala pointed out that I want to still having difficulty absorbing the arm sales. And so I think that this is an area that bears are further consideration to 276 thousand. If you'd like to join our conversation we're talking about the president's a trip this week to China 9 day visit to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one. 800-242-2828. Richard bore is our guests this hour.Go ahead place. Thank you for fixing up. My first question is whether you speak in Chinese. You know the Chinese have a wonderful expression Mark. You have nothing to fear from Heaven. You have nothing to fear from Earth. The only thing you have to fear is a silly Foreigner trying to speak Chinese and I'm in that category. The reason I ask is that my wife and I have tried. Phone's breaking up Mark. Can you make a quick look so I think we already lost Mark there. I think I think March question had to do with the dependents that foreigners have on interpreters who serves as an interpreter for people who are over there. Well the beauty of the relationship these days carry is that far more Americans have learned Chinese and when the US and trying to normalize their relations almost 30 years ago, we have made a lot of progress and teaching Chinese in the primary schools and especially in the secondary schools here in America. And as you know, I think almost every time we we talk I'm always very proud to say that for a long time a decade and more I Minnesota has been teaching 1/4 of all the high school language Chinese that is taught in America today. What where do these kids go after they graduate from high school they date. How to go into Asian studies in colleges and then many of them come back to Minnesota and work for Minnesota companies and do excellent work in China. They join the state department. They go into education and nongovernmental organizations. So I think Mark's question is a very good one in that. It does indicate that more of us are able to and willing to speak Chinese. Of course impresses the Chinese but there's a long way to go yet, you know, Gary you have to realize that as you walk up and down the streets and China and you hear more and more especially little kids speaking Chinese you realize that soon China will be the largest English-speaking country in the world. All the kids now are speaking Chinese in school and English speaking English in school and after school and many of them. In fact, they're coming to America for summer English language programs. And so this is a remarkable indication of China's determination to be part of the twenty-first century. There was an interesting opinion piece printed in I believe it's the Saint Paul paper today Trudy Trudy Rubin wrote it and suggesting that the Chinese would be well-advised to take a close look at it. What happened in Indonesia in terms of how it's going to deal with its future problems in the two lessons to learn number one. You don't open fire on your citizens, even if they're unhappy with what the government is doing a number to that any government with a good Sans would start to lay the You work for that inevitable time? When not only do you have to open up your economic system, but you got to open up your political system. Is there any sign that the Chinese are actually learning those lessons? I think if you look at the Grassroots level and end on this trip Gary, we were very fortunate to see in a number of villages and towns away from big cities. Excitement over the recent Trends in Chinese politics to hold elections at the village in the township level and the cashier. Yes elections for Town Council Village Council. And in fact candidates that do do not necessarily have to be a member of the Chinese Communist party. I think that this is a very promising development and it certainly is something that the Chinese are very excited about I think at the level of economic openness more and more Americans are in China these days to help advise the Chinese government on the development of commercial codes and other legal infrastructure, and the Chinese are are delighted with this because it enables them to be more and more of a transparent and and porous free market economy, which can Integrate better and better with the with the world economy. What's your sense? Seeing all the people who are doing business in China American businesses, Minnesota businesses are those folks interested in these bigger issues in China, or do they just looking to make a buck? Oh, I think there is a great deal of broad-minded concern on the part of American Business certainly Minnesota business, you know, it's it's in American business interests to have an increasingly vibrant and prosperous middle class growing in China interested in purchasing consumer items from the United States from Minnesota, and we need a middle class which is increasingly able to make its own decisions. And so I think as part of economic openness, I want you seeing more and more personal decision-making which will inevitably I think lead to more and more political decision-making President Clinton is leaving for China this weekend to get ready for the trip to get ready for the coverage that you're going to be hearing of that trip Richard Moore has joined us today teaches East Asian studies at the College of Saint Benedict. John's University is the former director of Midwest China Center and former executive director of the Minnesota World Trade office. We also invite you to join our conversation this our give us a call 227-6002 to 76 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free and that number is 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-422-8028 and we'll get this more calls and just a moment. It's a very special weekend lineup on Minnesota Public Radio. You'll hear tap dancing radio producers the Statesboro blues band the Norwegian Jimi Hendrix the dangers of car phone public radio celebrities with car problems. The cooks brain foods on vacation small towns in Utah David Sedaris on pledging for the first time finger puppet Opera the kindness of strangers guy Noir bread that affect math radiosurgery and Julia Child steamed wombats all this weekend to the public radio and you thought those were some public radio couldn't talk that fast. Actually most of us can't today's programming is made possible in part by The Advocates of Minnesota Public Radio contributors include Margaret river is found in Merrill Corporation celebrating United Way helping people everyday. Well here is the weather forecast for the state of Minnesota. We can look for some afternoon thunderstorms in South Western and south-central Minnesota partly cloudy elsewhere highest today low 70s in the north mid 80s in the South tonight. There's a good chance for showers and thunderstorms, maybe some severe weather. Weather in southern Minnesota and more showers of thunder showers are forecast for the state tomorrow as well. Twin Cities partly cloudy this afternoon with a high temperature in the low-80s thunderstorms are likely tonight, maybe some severe weather with a low in the mid-to-upper 60s 40% chance for some more thunderstorms tomorrow with a high in the mid-to-upper 80s right now Duluth with a cloudy Sky 65 whole and cloudy and 70 Fargo partly cloudy 68 Sioux Falls partly cloudy 71 St. Cloud cloudy and 70 Rochester Sunny and 75 Twin City temperature with a cloudy sky is 74° we're talking this hour about the President Clinton's upcoming trip to China Richard bar has joined us to take your questions. He's just back from China and sharing with us his observations of what's going on over there. He's the director of East Asian studies at the College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University, by the way, before we get back to our callers it just a quick match. About what's coming up over the noon hour today? And I think you'll find this pretty interesting William IV the new chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts was in town last week to talk at the symphony League convention talking about the future of the nea I will hear from him. We're also here from Garrison Keillor who was the luncheon speaker at the convention with some interesting thoughts on the future of symphony orchestras in America that's coming up over the noon hour. Now, we're going to continue our conversation about China Bill. Thank you Mr. Blore. Do you believe there's a possibility communist China and Japan will join go together the link both of our both are Asian Nations China has mineral wealth in Manchuria. They have plenty of minerals. Japan has no mineral wealth of all the Chinese people survive most anything. Do you think they'll link and go together in every respect? Thank you. Very important issue will we recently had to about a month ago in the Minneapolis a Midwestern meeting of the American assembly series of conversations on us China policy and at that meeting Ambassador Mondale and investor Michael armacost a both advised us that we must never forget Japan in the equation of us Asia relations, and that very often when we talked about us China relations. We often forget that when Japan is left out of the equation. We're forgetting about two-thirds of the Asian economy. So Japan, even though it's going through a rough economic patch now is critically important to the economic future of the region critically important to us. Nations in Asia and what I'm hoping is that we won't in fact have a three-legged stool as we look to the Pacific Century. That is the stool with the legs of the United States of Japan and China working together in a in a trilateral way on global and Regional issues. How is the Chinese economy been affected by this Asian financial crisis Japan as you know, it really has gotten hammered and many of the other economies throughout Asia have really taken a beating China to you know, Gary part of this whole miraculous story of the China Sea conomic surge is that one does not get the the sense that China has yet been affected the Chinese, of course, there are taking every possible precaution to ward off any possible infection from the Asian. You cannot make flu but so far a knock would they have not devalue their currency? They pledged to keep the currency stable and a 1/2 Not see any sign of economic a freefall Joanne your question, please. All the allegations against the president concerning questionable campaign financing contributions from China and the past letter at Square. And I'm going to contend against of National Security perhaps being jeopardized. I I just wonder why the president when perhaps wait for more opportune time for his visit and also by the Christian persecution is going on in China in the killing of prisoners and selling their organs. I just feel that we need to send a message to China that these things are on acceptable in society and the Killer and Inns. I just like to know what your deals are on this. First of all, why not? Wait for awhile? Let some of this controversy settled before making this trip, you know, Gary there's always controversy and us China relations has been controversy since the time Sun Yat-sen overthrew the Manchu Dynasty at the turn of the century. There's been controversy when America supported John Kai-shek and the nationalists over the Communist. There's been Controversy regarding us relations with Taiwan until we reverse course and reverse course and and recognize the government in Beijing. So we have always had in our historic relations with China and up and down love hate relationship. We often think that because Sun Yat-sen and then the early revolutionary leaders at the turn of the century when they look to Abraham Lincoln and espoused his government of the People by the people for the people as the basis of of the new China. We we felt that China audit become just like us and we thought China was becoming just like us and therefore we have been frustrated and disappointed when China veered into a direction, which was not the American way. And so I think we have to recognize that embedded in the whole fabric of of the US China relationship. He is this pendulum swing Between Love and Hate between Good China and bad China. And so there never is an ideal time. And I think the president has has felt he needs to take the bull by the horn and to get us China relations on the right track in anticipation of the Pacific century. Is it true that the Chinese are persecuting Christians? I think here again. If we go back to the purpose of the Ford Foundation Grant and the work that we've been doing in China over the last couple of weeks, we feel that we need to have to be much more clear about what is in fact going on in China. That is the media of the educational institutions. The educators of America need to have a much clearer picture of what is going on in China that China is a huge country the size of the United States. It's a very diverse country. It's a very heterogeneous country while you may have in Shanghai people coming in from all over the world to give sermons and to officiate at mass in a very very open way. You may have it in the hinterland and in some out-of-the-way areas are much more contrave constrained Church situation where people are not free to worship as openly as they are in the major Cosmic. Cities but it is a moving Target and it's very hard to generalize about the the general situation as a whole is it true that the Chinese are selling organs harvested the organs of from prisoners? Here again, I think many of these allegations are or unsubstantiated. They they are fed by rumors and it's very very difficult to be able to know for sure that these things do or do not go on. I think we really need to see beyond the emotionalism of us China relations to be able to look dispassionately at the situation. What do the Chinese hear when they hear our complaints about human rights violations? What do they hear? One of the main issues that came up in The Summit in the citizens Summit. We had between China and Minnesota last week and part of the scary part of the summit discussion will be broadcast on ktca Thursday evening on Newsnight. One of the main issues. We all recognized is that we don't even have in the very long sweep of us China conversations. We don't even have a Commonly accepted set of definitions. For example human rights what Americans Define is human rights and is totally off the Chinese radar screen for China human rights are the right to food housing education Medical Care and the leaders of China feel that they have they have provided those things to the people of China and it's very clear that when you look at the success of Economic Development and the increasingly Rising living standards of the people that human rights in China has been successfully delivered to a majority of the people. Back to the phone. So to your question for Richard Barr place for the Chinese government to receive for foreign investors for the past five thousand years. He has also be entered the place where the communist government to has killed thousands of your choosing a food that needs to be kept in the mind and it is so interesting to hear your guests six people so many good things about the China. I'm wondering whether he has been one of those who has been taken out a guided tour by the Chinese government or has he ever being without Chinese officials with him to the extent that he had gone out and met the Chinese people about 30 alive conditions. And also I'm interested in hearing what do Chinese people think about the Chinese government policy to her stupid. I will hang up and listen to your commands. Get the feeling that or do you have an opportunity to actually get away from all the official guides and that wander among the regular people, you know China now is so open access is so easy to the Common People the last of many trips that I've made the China have the in fact involve guides on very very few occasions. So I do have access to people I do try to talk to people on the street and I do get a sense of what's on their minds and Tibet what what is happening with the Tibet? The question of Tibet is as you know, one of the most serious issues in us China relations. It's also a divisive issue within China itself. There has been no clear determination as one looks to history about the status of Tibet weather Tibet has ever truly been independent whether it is been autonomous or how integrated it has been into the central government of China and Imperial times to bed had a great deal of autonomy, depending on the Dynasty in the 20th century. The Chinese communist government, of course has tried to integrate the Tibet more and more into the country for strategic reasons for economic reasons. The Dalai Lama and the president of China Johnson men talk a lot about the relationship between China and Tibet. But in many ways they keep talking past each other are the Dalai Lama's position now is that Tibet would like greater autonomy not Independence and so here is an opportunity for the Tibetans and the Chinese to hold discussions free about outside influence on the future. And if the basis of that relationship can be autonomy, I think that would be a major compromise. I'm wondering you know, when when the Chinese President Johnson man was here the course to visit receive lots of news coverage and groups who are vitally interested in what's going on in China Workhorse out and about paying attention, but I would guess it would be fair to say that the average Joe and Jane on the street here just didn't pay a lot of attention. Are people over in China the average person on the street? Are they all fired up about this visit by the president or are they to just going about their business kind of casually noting that he'll be around a very excited Gary there. They're ecstatic in visiting Xi'an. We were taken to the Terracotta soldiers Museum where one can view the spectacle of hundreds of thousands of these excavated clay life-size soldiers who protected the first emperor on his way to heaven. And they still stand in military formation protecting the first emperor. It's in a very very impressive sight and we saw workers building a Stairway down to the ground level where the president and mrs. Clinton will be able to go down and look directly at ground level at the Terracotta soldiers. The only other person who was who was ever able to do this was Queen Elizabeth and I think that the fact that the Chinese want the clintons to have this kind of access to one of their Greek cultural Treasures is assigned of the value they place on this visit we talk to Ordinary People on the streets we talk to kids we talk to old people they all know that the presidential party is coming. They're all very very excited. We visited day Private School, Gary. And one of the things that amazed us was the burgeoning of private schools in China and here in Xi'an. We visited one of 100 new private schools. We went into a classroom of students who were about 17 18 and they showed us some of the some of the slogans that they had written in English in anticipation of the presidential visit and I'm I'm I'm looking at a picture and here are three of the slogans face the future face the world Face the modernization and are these are messages that they would like to personally explain to President Clinton. Why is this so important to them on a Blackboard in the back of the of this one? Classroom is a long essay in very very good English which is called the mythical Elvis and a couple of students told me they wanted to discuss Elvis Presley with the president the king Reigns and in Beijing in your question, please see University and I'm working on my MBA in my Master's thesis is going to be on doing business and show me that I'm just curious. Are you I know that it's China you making China sound like it's everything's Rosie. The China still have some huge problems overcome. One of these is a Reformation of the state-owned industries, and I was just wondering I know it seems like an essay's cannot affect change or is being portrayed that way but I believe the US can affect change and a greater fashion in the country. But I was wondering how what effect do you think the Reformation the state of the industry is going to have on the future stability of the country. Well, and then they're turning over all the housing aren't they? They're their privatizing the housing. So people have been living fairly comfortably at least accurately and stayed on housing. I was going to have to buy their houses or pay exorbitant rents. And I was all that going to work out in China. Gary privatization is the single greatest challenge that China faces since the creation of the People's Republic in 1949. We saw some of the uneasy consequences of privatization. The labor markets are bigger than I've ever seen them that is these are areas on the street corners where people come to wait for a day job these are and we we asked about the their origin. They said they were workers who had been laid off from as the collar right? He points out the big state-owned factories. Now the state on industry has been losing money for a very long time. And trying to knows that it can only make an economic success of modernization if it can privatize the rest of it. So he kind of me and bring in foreign investment. So that plants and operations can be modernized so that new businesses can be created to absorb. This growing unemployed Workforce Now the Chinese say that for the most part these are are laid off workers. Meaning they are let go from a state-owned factory, but waiting to be employed by a privately on Factory and that's normally a factory that is a joint venture between a Chinese entrepreneur and an American or a Minnesotan or somebody from another part of the world and yet several people will say no, we're not laid off. We are unemployed. We have no future so there is a sense of pessimism And kind of Bleak mentality that one census among people who are not educated and you don't have transferable skills. And I think this is extremely worrisome. I would think that would put ultimately put some immense pressure on the Chinese government. Yes. It means that the Chinese government has to seek even more foreign investment than the country has already received and we have to keep in mind that the China is the number one country that has been observing for an investment for many years. Now, what about going the other way though where people get so upset that they insist. Let's go back to the old ways. At least we had a place to live. We had a job and enough of this westernization enough of this globalization. Let's get back to the way things were. Well, I think the biggest worry of the current government in China is how not to how to contain the groin. gap between rich and poor and one does c a rich middle class growing and a a class of unemployed who are feeling more and more hard-pressed and desperate. So the trick will be to keep the economy growing at such a pace that it can continue to absorb these workers who are coming off stream from state-owned Industries into the so-called private sector better. You get the last question for which herb or go ahead place, about a year-and-a-half ago for 5 weeks and I traveled by myself book know Chinese and I was really just amazed with the number of people that came out to me and wanted to talk to me. The only thing that they wouldn't talk about with their government ever talk about their life and kind of fight the difficulties of finding a job in finding a place to live, but they just not would not touch the government and then the quick question is I haven't heard any discussion about the military's role. Economy and want one of the things that I've repeatedly heard about was the fact that the military owned a vast number of Industries and also just controlled a lot of the resources over there, but there was little to no central control of the military so is life is feudal Lords, and I'm wondering if that's kind of what the reality of the situation is. The military is the largest owner of Chinese Enterprises and you're right. It is not a monolithic centrally controlled Force but it is a whole series of the industries and economic sectors a most of which are our civilian. And so there's been a lot of of privatization and turn over into a civilian production among the military-owned industries and the economic sector at but this is again an instance which we don't understand very well and I think which causes people on the outside some concern I think we really need to understand. What is the role in the purpose of of the military in China's Economic Development today is controversy apparently of surrounding this trip has to do with China's refusal to Actual cancellation of visas for 3 radio journalist who work for Radio free Asia which is essentially the Asian counterparts Radio free Europe by President Clinton says he's upset about it members of Congress say that the president that shouldn't be just upset. He got to do something about it. I see Newt Gingrich the house speaker is now saying that if China doesn't back off and let these journalists in you should put them on Air Force One and bring them in as part of the official party I suppose now is this the kind of thing again that that threatens the whole trip these these constant problems that could just blow up the trip or what what what what effect is dispute like this likely to have it won't blow up the trip Gary. This is merely China's way of saying that you know, we are the hosts and we will determine how to be the host media relations with the government in China are not easy. They're becoming more and more. I think more and more at ease and more and more open, but this will take time, but it does seem like a slap in the face to a visiting dignitary in this case President Clinton. Well, of course the agency that these radio journalist work for he is regarded as a not part and parcel of the White House or the administration. What are going to be watching for as a China expert yourself during this trip? I certainly hope that the conversation between President Clinton and President John will go. Well. I certainly want them to discuss not only trade and investment issues but proliferation issues. I want them to talk about how China can be a pillar of stability in Asia because this is in America's direct self-interest and I want them to discuss how our two countries working with other important powers like Japan can provide a global security network for the 21st century price much for coming in today. Appreciate it. Thanks Gary Richard bar. Who is just back from China director of East Asian studies College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Ray Suarez in his ear and a half is Commerce Secretary William daily is helped American firms win lucrative contracts abroad. We as the government have got to be out there making sure that if there are opportunities around the world in American businesses get a fair Shake secretary daily joins us to discuss overseas trade Commerce at home and his upcoming trip to China on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. time now for Garrison feel