AccuWeather I'm 6 minutes now past 11 programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Dayton's oriental rug departments in downtown Minneapolis, Saint Paul and at the Southdale Brookdale and Rosedale home stores. And good morning. Welcome to midday here on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I can glad you could join us later this month about 27 million more Americans will officially become overweight not because they've actually gained any weight, but because the definitions are changing the national heart lung and Blood Institute, which is part of the National Institutes of Health have come up with some new guidelines, which change the government's definition of what constitutes a healthy weight under these new guidelines, which are similar to guidelines used in Other Nations under these new guidelines. Define percent of all adult Americans would be considered to be overweight. Let's shower going to take a closer. Look at those guidelines what they mean joining us this morning from the Minneapolis VA Medical Center is Alan Levine who is the director of the Minnesota obesity Center glutes researchers from the VA the University of Minnesota the Mayo Clinic and the Hennepin County Medical Center. And of course, we also invite you to join our conversation this morning. If you have a question or comment about these new weight guidelines what they mean and how they affect people give us a call or Twin City area number is 227-6002. 276 Thousand Oaks on the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free add 1-800. 242-282-8227 6001 800-242-2828 new guidelines being posted the finding watch overweight. And what's obese. Dr. Levine. Thanks for joining us this morning. What do these new guidelines mean from your perspective? I should these a 27 million Tamara. Let's go on a diet immediately. I think we have to be careful about how we take these guidelines into account there really Public Health guidelines for an entire population. It's not for a specific individual. You have to look at all of the factors that are involved in that individuals Health to give any advice. So just because you look at a chart in the morning paper and see that you might be in the overweight category doesn't mean that you should automatically start dieting while we can give you an example of weightlifter might fit into that category and be a world-class athlete and be considered overweight or even obese and have a large muscle mass which is the finding a rather than a fat Mass which is really the threat not the muscle mass. So you won't have to take a careful. Look at how you interpret those. What what does it mean then to be overweight or be obese according to these new guidelines? Well what's happened is they've lowered the bar in terms of what is considered overweight by using a measure known as the body mass index and the body mass index is a number that defines the relationship between your body weight and your height which is our best estimate that how much really how much body fat. Do you? Have you could measure Volume to a more direct measure than this is just an estimate of looking at how overweight somebody is so that today's world with this chart anything of a body mass index greater than 25 is considered overweight. So if you were 5 feet 8 in tall and you weighed 164 pounds, you would have a BMI of 25 and you would start entering into that category of overweight, but you wouldn't necessarily be overweight by any other definition. If for example, you were that weightlifter you were talking about know if you were that weightlifter, you might weigh 177 at 5, which would give you a BMI of 27, but you would be in the overweight category, but certainly you're not over fat. What's wrong with being overweight? There's a lot of things wrong with being overweight. There's a lot of threats. For example, there's a higher incidence of type 2 or adult onset diabetes Associated. There's higher levels of hypertension. Are your joints have more just physical stress on them. So there's more osteoarthritis with aging associated with overweight is a lot of complications associated with being overweight and that's why these guidelines were developed and I assume the the complications from being overweight increase with a degree of being Overweight oh, absolutely. I mean clearly if you have a BMI in the range of 35 or greater and where you're obese and morbidly obese your risk is much greater hypertension heart disease kidney disease Cancer all sorts of things. Now I suppose there will be some people who will say. Well here we go again obsessing about people's wait and the net result is that we're going to end up with a lot of Eating Disorders people who get too skinny that suggested some things associated with this like a BMI of 19 being a good BMI in for people who are anorexic. They're going to go to their positions and say see I told you so and that's not what we want to do. That's why we have to look at these guidelines of Public Health measures. I'm we're saying for the whole population to be greater than 25 where were including more risks, and we should really recommend to lower BMI. We're talking to shower with Alan Levine director of the Minnesota. Obesity Center about new guidelines are being published defining over what constitutes being overweight in America. Those guidelines will be officially published later this month. It would be interesting today to talk a little bit more about the guidelines what they mean what they don't mean if you'd like to join our conversation. Give us a call Twin City area number is 227-6002. 276 Thousand Oaks add the Twin Cities 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 Jack your first glad place. I've heard that it is a matter of the More calories in and calories out more consuming more than expending and yet I can't help but think that a lot of them people and it doesn't seem to look to match my experience with people is it isn't there some metabolic difference between people who followed some people can't have no trouble staying fan others no matter what the others. Can't save them all the truth is that it is in fact related to how much energy you expend or how much you take in there may be differences in terms of the way people metabolize the nutrients they take in and maybe differences in the way. They absorb them but that's only a minor issue. It seems that the most major issue is the amount of output. So you might see people who not only work out more physically in terms of training but they might just move around more. Naturally. They might move more in their sleep. There might be more expenditure in those individuals which may account for it. And if you speak with people who are very lean many of them don't even care about food that they don't obsess on food in the same way. They don't live to eat they eat to live. So there really isn't much to this notion that some people just have a higher metabolism and that's why they don't have to worry about being overweight. They just sit around and eat all they want and burn it off a lot easier. I don't think those data supporting that many major way at this point. They may expend more energy naturally just by moving around more Dave your next earlier. You mentioned that the BMI wasn't as important as fat percentage and I was wondering if there are any numbers in terms of the fat percentage which would be considered healthy overweight and obese fat that might be more useful or people speak two different percentages like 20 to 25% for females and 15 to 20% for males. The public health guidelines associated with that have not been established in any major. Part of it is because it's so difficult to get at these numbers accurately like doing an underwater body measure or something of that sort. It's not so easy to talk people into a chair put them under water and then find out what percent body fat. They are. That's the most accurate way. There's other ways with caliper skinfolds and other measures but for population studies, you really don't have much more available than weight and height and even height the Hard One to get it accurately. And again this all we have percentage of fat. That would be one one measurement a but this one is based on body mass index. Right which is a function of remind us again. It's your weight / your height but the height of squared so to get to that number it's not so easy and less use the metric system or a conversion but it's it's your weight in kilograms divided by height squared in meters. And again, this is for a general population. No specific individual talking about guidelines for a whole population just like the recommended dietary guidelines for vitamin intake or something of that sort is not for a specific individual. It's for the whole population. Michael. Jordan is not obese. I think recording I left it up and look like he might act like we've certainly overweight if not close to obese. Matt your next go ahead place if your question by there, I think this is a very serious decision. When we speak of being overweight. We immediately link that to one condition of Health. If you're overweight you may be compromising your overall health and so my fear is that insurance companies have either influence or we'll miss use this information to two very bad accident. I know a lot of individuals that are in excellent health because they work out they run the exercise and they would actually now fall into this category of being overweight and it's completely ridiculous and I think it would unnecessarily influence the decision companies a decision by your insurance companies that might take on some of these individuals. I think it's a A terrible mistake and I think it will be misused. I think that's why there was a lot of discussion controversy within the committee itself on this while it was until you know, which publishes it wasn't even out of this world. It was close to it. But I'm sure there was a tremendous amount of dispute over those issues the insurance companies generally use their own Actuarial tables to establish those types of numbers and I would hope that they would continue to use real data on the population the way they've used it before without although they are influenced by this as well as their numbers are not too far from this. I believe. Is there any evidence that up until now people who have been deemed to be overweight have been discriminated against in some way either denied coverage or charged more for coverage tell but I can tell you that there are definitely guidelines in terms of hypertension and wait for health insurance. And those would be in those have always been part of that. Have you heard any Stories about employers who obviously are concerned about the health care costs shying away from hiring people who they considered to be overweight in some way or other. I'm not familiar with those were talking to shower with Alan Levine director of Minnesota. Obesity Center new guidelines are coming out from the National Institutes of Health that which change the definition of official definition of what's over were considered to be overweight in America. 27 million. More Americans will be classified as overweight under these new guidelines and this our work and taking a look at those guidelines and some of the implications. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call or Twin City area number to 276 thousand to 276 thousand out side the Twin Cities 1 800 to +422-828-227-6102 for 22828. According to the Guidelines are the new ones 55% of all adult Americans would be considered overweight which means the chances are better than fifty-fifty that you would be one of those folks considered to be overweight Barbara. I am one of those folks who is overweight and I think is by looking at myself. I can tell I'm somewhat overweight not grossly obese, but one of the things I'm thinking that perhaps these new guidelines, why might push us toward is toward eating less or not being simply piggy in the way. We eat if I go to a restaurant, I'm usually served two meals and my I had the interesting experience of spending a couple days with my daughter in Chicago and we split every meal. I mean every meal with pork sandwiches. We went to a Chinese restaurant and we split a relatively small serving serving. And we were we were filled we were fine and it just seems to me that Americans do eat too much and we are pudgy. Well, you know, these guidelines are based on similar guidelines in the rest of the world and people have commented that people in the US, of course eat more than they need to I'm it's a balancing act in terms of people who will take this to the Other Extreme and those who take it to the extreme that they're talking about with such guidelines. And of course when you go to a restaurant They don't serve you your portion of your food based on your body size is a portion of food. So when you're splitting to somebody else might not need to split 2 based on their size. Should we still alive to keep close tabs on our calories? Is that is that still a good way to keep tabs on your weight will certainly since we're following the rules of physics and calories are measuring heat or energy you would you would definitely keep tabs on your calories for a while many people are recommending just keep tab on your fat intake this if you eat a low-fat diet, it's unlikely that you will gain weight meal. In fact maintain a decent body sized the problem is As we become more and more clever at manufacturing foods with no fat in it one can get significant calories. And if you just eat fruits and vegetables, it's fairly difficult to do it. But if you have no fat Cookies Cakes and potato chips all of these things and you eat a large amount that we can get a lot of calories in No, I understand. Another part of the guidelines advise doctors to focus also on the weight Sahara waist size. I'm sorry 40in for men 35 in 4 women in anything over and above that would be time to take a second look for a long time to discussion associated with middle fat so that so-called visceral fat and that is reflected by your waist to hip ratio. So you have if your waist becomes larger than your hips and that happens in men or Aging in many cases. That's a threat to those are those that little fat is associated with higher higher blood pressure once again in a higher rate of diabetes. So that's why there's guidelines around fat distribution as well. And the weight around the abdomen is definitely considered to be worse than weight in hips out for sure threatening. That is the distribution in men. You know, the apple versus pear shape that we've talked about for years Mike your question, please. Hi, I'm wondering if these even more stringent guidelines are not causing. Even more weight what I would term phallophobia in America that's already going on. I mean, you know, you talked earlier about the possibility of discrimination against batter people and it just seems like whether it's conscious or subconscious that there's sort of like, you know, that fat people aren't as smart as happy and stuff and you know, I'm overweight and I'm perfectly happy and I and I keep check on my cholesterol and blood pressure and stuff and it just seems like there's this like the phobia about you know over in obesity and encourage is bias or anyting else associated with weight the problem that one gets into from a public health you point is should you recommend guidelines based on what looks from the date in literature to be the best way to live Life and be at less risk for things such as heart disease or should you be looking at the issue is more related to appearance. It becomes very difficult. And I don't think people should be biased about happiness intelligence any of those issues at all associated with weight. Those have nothing to do with this what we're talking about is simply health issues and we don't feel we responsible not to discuss those kind of health issues. Is it proper for people to assume that people who are overweight lack willpower. It's not the biological reasons. We know that the just as much at there's a there's an environmental component clearly the gene pool hasn't changed in the last 20 years of weight has increased so we know there's an environmental component that having food available everywhere contributes to it on the other hand. We also know that about 50% of the issue relates to your genetics. You're not going to be able to change his genetics. So you you might you know, it's easy to have willpower if you don't Are about food for folks who food is not important who they'll say, you know, well, I don't gain weight. Well for those individuals it's easy for somebody who absolutely adores food for many reasons. That's not it that's hard-wired. Most likely you're born that way and so in that case that level of willpower is completely different than for somebody else. So it's not reasonable to say you're just a weakling I marry your next glad place. like the more important Something rather than the height weight ratio, although I'm sure that had to keep you in England how much overweight person is but isn't it the inches of fat lot more important? Like for instance. My husband is very skinny, but he I could call him as skinny fat. So because he's got that tie around his waist and I think that he should lose weight just to get rid of that tired yet. He's height weight ratio is probably just fine. So again, you have to examine the individual I agree that fat distribution and fat total amount of fat is more the issue that is just wait, but it's very unusual in our society for people to be over muscles except for athletes and be very it going to be very lean relative to their weight. So that's why there's exceptions to the general if we're looking at an average the the weight to height ratio is useful and the fact that your husband has some weight around his middle might not be terribly threatening if it's not a very large waste in There are guys were very thin legs and very big stomachs and might weigh less but I think the way you're describing your husband. It sounds like it's not a big threat. What is there any is anything actually work in terms of losing weight. This fellow for example, who is described by his wife is being a toothpick like except the stomach bigger than it should be what in the world would a fellow like that do is that a lot one can do for those kinds of issues management. It's the same issues over and over and over again. We haven't been terribly successful the data shows that 95% of the people who lose weight gain it within 5 years and there is some researchers Jim Hill and Rena Wing have been collecting data on a wheat registry around the country of successful weight losers people who have kept their weight off for at least 2 years or more and in many cases when we start looking into these situations, it's because they have maintained Regular physical activity schedule you need to spend an hour a day doing brisk walking at least to maintain that weight loss an hour a day an hour a day is the date of that. It looks at this point to be the most successful. Yes as opposed to the 20 minute workout that you often hear that that's plenty good for for exercise purpose activity. So 20 minutes of high aerobic activity, like running is different than walking briskly, you know for 40 minutes or an hour or so feet with the one-hour is looking at walking, you know, that's generally the number and its many people can fit that in by doing it twice a day for half an hour at different points in their life over lunch instead of eating and then eat it back at your desk or you don't take 20 minutes off and walk in the morning 20 minutes another 20 of the evening. It's feasible and the Boston police study which looked at that population carefully founded the people who maintain their weight. We're the ones that exercised and kept up the Not to get too deeply into this. But if you were to if you want to start walking briskly or an hour a day could would you still have to eat like a bird or could you not like you want to be like you can't be everything you want because walking for an hour. Let's say you do 4 miles that's around 400 calories of energy, you know, if piece of cheesecake is more than that, so you can't do that. You still have to be careful. But the reason it seems to work is because of the fact I mean there might be a lot of reasons one interpretation would say is if I'm going to put in that hour of walking. I'm not going to just blow that calories in 5 minutes of eating cuz I just had to work hard to get that off that made me one thing the other is as in after effect of the exercise even after you stop you continue to burn energy at a higher rate because you were out walking that's another possible explanation, but most likely it's just a balance that one comes into you have to learn how much you eat and then you have to do Exercises well, and if you quit the exercise it doesn't seem to be the people can maintain that 400 calories less of eating or talking at this hour. Dr. Alan Levine who's the director of the Minnesota obesity Center Center of drawers and researchers from the VA the University of Minnesota the Mayo Clinic in Hennepin County Medical Center. He's joined us at this hour to talk about some new guidelines, which are coming out to from the National Institutes of Health on what is considered to be appropriate weight normal weight overweight and obesity and under these new guidelines, which will be officially published later this month 27 million more Americans will be officially defined as being overweight. We're talkin the shower about to those new guidelines what they mean, and if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand. Side the Twin Cities one 802-4228 And it will have some more colors in just a moment. We've been investing since 18 when I die give his money to start with he started teaching us over value line at the age of 13. So when our friends were out playing with football, we were studying net profit. Margin. Hi, this is Bob Potter beat the motley Fool's themselves, Tom and Dave Gardner on somebody this weekend. So I'm on a Saturday after the convention again Sunday afternoon at 5 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. The good mr. Potter mentioned the convention that the course is the dfl state convention which officially convenes tomorrow morning and tomorrow over the noon hour will be in St. Cloud National Hockey Center in st. Cloud for a live. Midday broadcast 11 to 1 from the dfl State Convention all kinds of coverage plan to course all weekend long. We got a special broadcast Saturday morning little started about 9, which will focus on the efforts to endorse a candidate for governor, but that we begin our coverage tomorrow at 11 and we sure hope you'll be able to join us all weekend long as the Democrats try to decide who they want to support for governor that's coming up tomorrow today over the noon hour. We're going to hear from political Consultants to James Carville and Mary Matalin who are married to course republican or democrat or Democratic Republican in this case and former President Gerald Ford. All of them will be talking in one way or another about why it is that it's in your own interest. Care about things like dfl State Convention why politics matters in this country that's coming up over the noon hour today Leo weather forecast for the state of Minnesota Cloudy with a Chance for some light rain in Southwestern Minnesota and maybe a shower in the Northeast as well. But generally cloudy to partly cloudy pretty nippy again today with eyes mid-50s to the low sixties the Twin City for class forecast rather cloudy and cool with a high around 60 degrees at last report. It was about 60 degrees and partly cloudy in the Twin City metropolitan area. We're talkin of the shower with Alan Levine director of the Minnesota obesity Center. He's joining us from the the medicine Minneapolis VA Medical Center talking about some new guidelines that have been published on weight in America. What is considered to be normal overweight and obese and what those guidelines will mean in again. If you'd like to join our conversation what city area number is 227-6000. Toll free line is one. 800-242-2828. Your Lovin I should ask you are minnesotans in general heavier than people elsewhere around the country. Well, it depends where you looking Minnesota outs taste more so than in the city's but yes, I so there there's been a number of studies. We're not in the worst situation. Is it true that that extra weight and I'm serious about this is that help us deal with the extremely cold weather. I don't think in a major way because we use clothing did we know for example people who live in climates were there for the deep sea divers that look for pearls they've developed. Let's go more Brown adipose tissue because they're generating more. He threw that tissue but that's a specialized situation way. We live our lives. It doesn't do as much good because of the fact that the insulation is not as necessary if you get real sick, Is it good to go into that the illness overweight? So you've got some some extra padding and inevitably you lose weight when you get too sick, I would think if you had some extra pounds start with you you come out the back at a little better. Well, it depends on the kind of illness. Of course if it's a long-term debilitating illness, you're right. It would be you would probably be better off under those circumstances and that's why there are inverted u-shaped curves on this mortality business where the very low-end people do worse as well as being at the very high end of weight and probably associated with that is the oldest issue. So somewhere in the middle again is is maybe a Target right with a little preference to the lean side Trish your question, please Hi, it's my impression that there are many medications that are commonly prescribed that in fact do Spike appetite, even though the positions Desk Reference does not include weight gain as a side effect. If there are drugs that there's a lot of anecdote Associated like the old antidepressants. It was said there was more intake at that time. There was an carbohydrates but there haven't been very many careful studies looking at all of these nuts the reason why you don't see reference to it do diet drugs work. Depends on what we're looking at for sure. Some of these drugs that have been used over the years do have some impact that's a side effects or what have been the issue. Generally though. It's a pain to 15% effect on weight. It's not more dramatic than that. And you know it it depends on the I always talked about the fact that people eat for many reasons. So if you just ate for Hunger, if a drug made you less hungry would work. We know at the end of a big Feast like Thanksgiving. We always eat extra weed that dessert if I gave you a drug that made you feel like the end of that meal. You still might choose to eat a piece of pecan pie. And it depends on what you're eating if you're eating because it's something to do you're bored. Then a drug is not going to help you. You have to get out of the house or get away from what's making you bored. If there is food in your environment constantly around you then you're eating because it's available in free then you need to get rid of that access to that food. So the problem with diet drugs is it their attack in one aspect of this and that's why they probably only affect him to 15% of your body. Is there a danger that too many doctors will take these guidelines to literally check out the height the way plug in the formula and start prescribing drugs to people who really shouldn't have them. I don't really fear that too much myself. I think the ones you know, the ones that are going to take advantage for reasons of money and gain they may use these guidelines for that purpose of prescribed more drugs are get you into their clinics or that's what I don't think that's the usual that we see in our society with Medical care at all think what's going to happen is the physician clinician is going to take a close. Look at you as a whole person. They have your entire health history in front of them. And if they see no genetic problem, you don't know history of heart disease no major issues with cancer and they see that you're just slightly overweight. There be no reason for them to deal with this on the other hand if they see that your BMI is 30 and you have a history of heart disease in your family. Your blood pressure is elevated. They're going to tell you to lose weight. That would be the only fair approach to this. I don't think most Physicians look at charts and make decisions based on that. They're not trained to do that parently some people smoke because they're concerned that if they quit smoking they will balloon in weight. I'm so one would not never never encourage anybody to use that as as it as a crutch to lose weight and it's not that great. It's a 7 lb difference on average when somebody quit smoking the game 7 to 10 lbs. Generally Bob your next question, please the 20 years in for a lease the last 15. She's 5:1 and 1/200 which quick arithmetic puts it about 37 or 38. She doesn't disable because things have gradually becoming onset she creeks and has difficulty getting up to take Tylenol daily. The only thing that can control our blood pressure is long term use of high dosage of Procardia XL and recently about 2 years ago. She's had to start taking prescription medication for asthma. However, she travels all the time have her meals or an airport hotels are conventions and when she saw She buys everything that says diet light or fat-free on it, which I think is just ludicrous. But the only thing I've tried just tried to get her to eat more slowly with limited success. This is about as intractable as it can get and I just wonder if you have any suggestions those kind of cases occur very frequently and the only way one can deal with it is through constant Counseling of some sort or some kind of a clinical environment that helps where the exercise is prescribed and done on site there are places where you can go to actually lose weight on site where everything is very controlled environment. It is a tough situation and there is not a simple answer to it one have to just try to find the best clinical environment to the best position to deal with the issue. There is no simple answer I can give you and then of course, there's the likelihood of a relapse right as I mention 95% of people regain their weight within 5. So that's discouraging. Look at this. We had an answer for this we wouldn't be having this discussion. Let me ask you this Doctor Levine. Is it is it really make much sense for people to buy these foods are collard alluded to that, you know that the ones that are called reduced fat or fat-free or light or diet pop sand is there much point in in going out of your way to to buy all of that stuff. I think it's a helpful Krutch. I mean, it's really use I will say that it's helpful to eat foods that are lower in fat for health reasons in general. Okay. However, if you eat massive amounts of that food, it's not doing you any good because you're getting your calorie load backup. If not this simple thing where you say that I eat no fat. In fact, if you take a look at the data when we changed to having diet soda pops around weight has been going up since that point. It's not as though what people do what they were different than animals we use cognition. So they they do a little counting here. Eliseo I had 250 calories of soda pop that I didn't eat. Well I can have a cookie then I'd rather have that. I am always surprised when somebody, you know takes and doesn't have the one teaspoon of sugar in a coffee with your piece of chocolate cake, cuz that teaspoon of sugar is 15 calories. What are we talkin about here? I no say, well, I'm diabetic. You know, it doesn't always make a lot of sense but the diet foods were useful is if if the potato chip with outside and it has 110 calories vs 160 and you eat one portion of that, of course you're better off but you can't double it and most people think it's free. I'm going to go for now. That's where the problem is Rodger your question. I'm wondering if this body mass index has been studied in any of the foreign countries. And if so, I'm guessing that the index is going to come out lower and if there's anything we can learn from some of these foreign countries about their diets and their activities that we might be able to Mixing you serving our country. Well, you're absolutely right about them being lower in general there lower but as they become more and more westernized as we speak about are they even the ones that are already? Where should I go more more prosperous the week goes up, you know, the European countries are starting to approach our numbers now, so it really has to do I believe that in many ways. It's as the city's die and people use cars more and more for transportation. They they burn less energy as we hide our staircases and put elevators inside of people that use the elevators and in these countries has these other countries that starting to happen. The other thing is happening is you they are bringing on snack items and foods that are fun to eat that they never had before so they're approaching our numbers and we can learn from them. Yeah, but they're they're picking up on you know, if it's not something that people want to do to avoid great food. I want to eat it now and of course we know in countries like France and have Bologna Italy where they have lots of fat intake they eat smaller portions and smaller amounts, but they don't have all those extra food is around at all times access to food is unbelievable. When you go to fuel your car in this country you feel your body as well if you want. Jim your question athletic coach and I've got some concerns. clients look up to and through high school and I have had on several occasions 8 year old little kids coming up to me saying do you think I'm fat? Do you know and I'm wondering if maybe the younger generation is maybe getting the message but not getting the whole story as far as making Positive Choices what, you know have an apple instead of chips bring in. Allaban Anna first snack or whatever. I have. I have concerns that they're going to grow up thinking that that same kind of thing. If I if I eat that are if I have diet soda, maybe I can maybe I could have a little cake right, you know those kind of choices. They worry me especially in an athletic field where people are very concerned about their weight. I know football and wrestling they all have to be a certain weight and I want as we're training our kids more intensively and younger if there's anything that we can do to help kind of bridge that there's a danger in going excessive in that direction. However, I mean the guidelines Show me the directions that by itself if you look at the real numbers, it's not as though you're going to make yourself emaciated on these kinds of numbers, but the the real issue relates to education and these issues are tough because you go from one extreme to the other the people who believe only organic foods are healthy and the other people think it doesn't matter what you eat and you have to know enough about biology to teach this and many of our teachers and coaches are are doing it based on popular conception, which is often times misconception. We ought to be able to teach with in biology chemistry and physics in both primary and secondary school something about nutrition and in a way that's biologically correct. So that's what needs to be done. I believe we have to teach more education in that area is the issue of weight. I an overweight condition is that worse for kids? Is that something that the that that's even more dangerous for kids or or is assumed that as a kid grows up by the lose the fat know the predictors are pretty bad. I mean the people who are overweight when they're young generally maintain their overweight all the way into their agents tape, you know, if they make it that long, so it's generally the risk is he don't want to develop those bad habits. I'm very early on and if you're going to be watching television constantly or sitting in front of a computer and not exercising that's that's the risk. We know you hear about it constantly. I'm if we can make our side a little bit more safe or so kids could feel fine playing outside in any environment. That would be helpful. Okay, or at least not as bad for older people to be a little overweight without being a little overweight when you're older is not a problem. If you're 70 or 75 because of the fact that you generally tend to start to lose some weights at that point to get less interest in food. So it's only a threat if you start it is unlikely that you got to start getting obese in the very agent. So that's why there's less concerned at the point of 85 year old being someone overweight. Bob your question. Yes, thank you for I am one of these people that I do drink a diet pop and then you candy bar later true lot of people they you crave sugar because you didn't have sugar perhaps and inside I try to actually going back to drinking pop with sugar in it because I find myself that's better to me then nothing to Candy bark my other comment that I'd like to make this is regarding a possible reason why we have such a busy in this country and might that be that food is just too darn cheap in this country and it's too accessible and it is very affordable. And in that same vein if we have all these health concerns about smoking in this country and its effects on people and we want to text incredible taxes on cigarettes. Why don't we also tax potato chip And the cream puffs that's that's going to be a tough one because the cost of food is inversely proportional. It seems to its calorie content in a pure fat is pretty cheap to buy where his lettuce is more expensive an app for calorie basis by far-right. So it would be very difficult to do that kind of thing. And it's probably not terribly realistic. What's more realistic is to try to get food out of every place that we go to in terms of the school system or in the offices and that type of thing to control it, but I don't think it would be able to regulate cost for calorie and tax per calorie. It's just too difficult to use some broader effort should be made down the road to crack down on foods that are not considered to be nutritious in in in a way similar to what's been happening with cigarette. I don't I personally don't think that's realistic because it's very hard to Define. What is a bad food, you know for some individual to eat us if I say that Do I bring up the cheesecake again? Cuz it's highly concentrated in energy and not the greatest kind of saturated fat. There's nothing wrong with somebody was a BMI of 25 or less to have a small piece of that but it's the person who eats 3/4 of them, you know, so it's no it's that's where the issue comes into play on this. I don't think we can do it not it's not reasonable Robert your question Place. Hi. I was wondering if the body mass index calculation is changed. I've been using it for like two and a half years and the formula that I've been using a totally different than the one you had and I was wondering if it's gotten harder or just to get a lower one or don't know nothing's changed before bill is exactly the same. You might have one that's not based on the metric system is based on feet and pounds. The number that I gave you is it's always weight divided by height squared that's always been the issue on BMI. And I had again what's change now with these new guidelines is that they've essentially move the bar down a little bit in terms of what would be defined as overweight right with a body mass index. And now it's happened. Is it to move down to 25 as far as being overweight and it's just trying to get a base tan they have is the numbers that we have in the literature that say that it could be threatening and it is controversial. You know, it's not something we can easily put on the table if we could get into a time machine and go back a hundred years would we have found 55% of all adult Americans falling into that overweight categorical we wouldn't I don't know what the exact number is, but it's considerably less it keep say it's got up a lot in the last 15 years. Just in the last 15 years. There's been major changes when you look at it. I'm looking at a table here that's is what percent of the population had a BMI from 25 to 30 and in 1960. It was 31% And now it's 32 and a half percent. So it starts going up in that range greater than 30. It went from 12.8% up to 22% So it's got more than 10 is going to 10% change to the 90s with people greater than body mass index of 30 and that's mostly just the result of people are eating more and exercising. We have a lot of labor-saving devices like electric windows on our cars you name it. We've got it people complain about opening the garage door, you know. We are just about out of time. Let's get one more call around here. Anyway, Margaret. Do I go by my presence? I have for my height and when I was in college, which is over 50 years ago, which is 550 boy you use your present height. I know you're spying is is lower than your shrinking in height. But you have to use your current one for this and see if I can get one more quick question on Larry a quick one. I take umbrage with the genuine speaker that there's bad food and good food. We have physiology hormones would like hypoglycemic index and glycemic index that are telling us over and over and over again as a culture. We eating far too much starch. I could that's a complicated answer and there's a lot of books that have been dealing with this issue, but I can tell you that carbohydrates not all kinds of carbohydrates are equivalent. It depends on the kind of carbohydrates and vegetarians eat almost entirely carbohydrates and some protein in Natomas and very little fat and they have much better they do much better. So what you're speaking to is the very sort of refined carbohydrate with a high sucrose intake high sugar intake which is not necessarily the same thing as eating a lot of vegetable matter of which has a different source of carbohydrate and fiber associated with it. So it's a complex issue to put this in some perspective. Dr. Levine people who are overweight should they just psychologically accept that fact and maybe work at it and I'll try to lose a few pounds but not obsess about this. Yeah, I think it would be best to deal with this in a balanced fashion it so we always try to tell people but unfortunately not everyone is capable of doing that. So that's what I would suggest at this point and the guidelines again are just that for a general population. So when you get the charts out in the paper just because you fall into one category and others may not necessarily mean that you're overweight, but probably you are not know where they said anyway, and you really can't have that extra piece of cake. Thanks a lot for joining us Alan Levine who is the director of the Minnesota obesity Center, which is located Minneapolis VA Medical Center researchers from the VA University of Minnesota Mayo Clinic and Hennepin County Medical Center all that participate in the Obesity Center NIH sponsored center today. We learned that the new guidelines Sir coming out they'll be published later this month new Official Guidelines defining what is overweight in America 27 million more Americans will be added to the overweight rolls at will mean that over half of the all of the entire adult population in this country will be at least according to these charts The Official Guidelines will be considered to be overweight. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio. By the way, thanks for joining us this first hour. We're going to break here for promotional announcement Garrison Keillor coming along and then over the noon hour will hear from James Carville Mary Matalin and Gerald Ford. I'm Ray Suarez Frank Sinatra back bell-bottoms. Tango not caring khakis. Cool multiculturalism raps The X-Files sunscreen Adventure vacations cool big cars Graceland, Tony Blair Martinez motorcycles mallomars, cool. What is what ain't who cares on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news? So that will be at 1 this afternoon Ray steps out at 1 today are on Minnesota Public Radio time now for Garrison Keillor.