Dwight King and Mahmood Zaidi discuss Indonesia's political unrest

Programs & Series | Midday | Topics | Politics | Types | Interviews | Call-In | Grants | Legacy Amendment Digitization (2018-2019) | Social Issues |
Listen: 99479.wav
0:00

Professor Dwight King of the Center for Southeast Asian Studies at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb IL, and Mahmood Zaidi, Director of International Programs at the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management discuss current events in Indonesia. King and Zaidi also answer listener questions. There is also an interview with Evelyn Lee, President of the Minnesota Indonesia Society. Programs begins with report on the status of civil unrest and demands for change in leadership in country.

Read the Text Transcription of the Audio.

Thank you Greta. Appreciate it programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by standard heating and air conditioning the Twin Cities Home Comfort Experts for 68 years featuring York Heating and Cooling products. And good afternoon and welcome back to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I'm glad you could join us 52 years ago today Indonesian launched an effort to win independence from the Dutch today 52 years later Indonesia appears to be on the verge of another major change one that could have a profound impact on all of Asia and the rest of the world as well more than 10,000 students and their supporters are occupying Indonesia's Parliament building today singing dancing and demanding an end to the 32 year reign of Indonesia is autocratic president. Suharto, however, despite the festive mood at the Parliament building tension remains very high in the capital of Indonesia Jakarta protest organizers today. In fact or warning that those students could be massacred by the military Olive Denim and square and China and the date siding the fear of Bloodshed. They called off as scheduled protest March outside the presidential Palace one that was expected to draw a million people into the street. Outside Ricardo police estimate 250,000 people were protesting in suharto's Hometown the man that he stepped down immediately back Witnesses said the turnout could be twice that number large but peaceful protests have also been reported in a half-dozen other Indonesian cities in a speech today US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright or harto to preserve his legacy by stepping down and permitting a democratic transition or comments were echoed by legislators belonging to so hard to his ruling bokar party, which suggested that suharto resign by June 8th go-kart dominates the 500-member Indonesian Parliament. Will this hour? We're going to take a closer look at just what's been happening in Indonesia. What's likely to happen and how it affects the rest of the world. First know what the latest from Jakarta here is national public. Radio's Mary Kay mixed in In the middle of the night. They laid the coils of barbed wire. They use tanks to block the main roads and they took their positions armed and in riot gear by 6 in the morning Muslim opposition leader. Ami Andreas cancel the rally he had said would draw a million people. He explain why I called animal project. I do not want to see some innocent people sacrifice just to remove tartar from his I will find out another solution. I've done as soon as possible one solution already being carried out by thousands of Indonesian students is to occupy Parliament. Mini slept overnight last night with in the Parliament building thousands more join them early this morning. They waved banners from the parliament steps saying down with two heart. Oh and do her to go to hell troops to guard at the parliament gate, but you're out the morning cuz they allowed new groups of students to come in by the hundreds Ahmed Sutra Sono a 23 year old student of international relations at the University of Indonesia says despite the shooting of four students last week. He thinks the military is not the enemy. I thank the people behind people and if he feels African today is they want to have to do to do to be kicked out of the presidency. So maybe other of actions will come and join us will come join of people. Well if they can see that it is not it is no bull that where we're standing here and saying it's a lot of his stuff down its back. We support a student support and other people supported. Among the many groups supporting the students are former General former ministers and professional group. Amy Hatfield run the local Environmental Group and it's a leading pro-democracy activists have been organizing business support for the students. Zoe's provide food and everything and this morning support from the people of Indonesia are coming individual households are coming to our office and you know, providing food drinks and a timer meaning of the students say they will occupy Parliament until the legislature convenes a special session to get rid of suharto. They have rejected so her to his plan laid out yesterday on National Television to take a slowly slowly approach to reform was too hard to remaining as president. So have many people who were once close to soeharto including ml saline a former Minister for the environment and respected intellectual Who challenged to her toe in the March presidential election. I don't think that the road is it takes too long a time. We cannot afford it and that's what I propose change first and then we fall I'm having the proposal at 3 for breast and then take too long a Time. A parliament and throughout Indonesia people are growing impatient. They say the Earth is too hard to setting the terms is over. He just have to realize that very kmag stud NPR news, Jakarta. Joining us now is Dwight King who was with the center for Southeast Asian studies at Northern Illinois University and also with us to the Sowers professor professor of my moods ad director of international programs at University, Minnesota Carlson School of Management, and we invite you to join our conversation as well. If you have a question or comment about the situation in Indonesia, give us a call as we sort through exactly what's happening at in Indonesia and what it means for that Countryman indeed for the rest of the world Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach its toll free at 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 pressure canning. Professor is 80. Thanks for joining us today. You're welcome. Let me start with you. If you could walk us through very briefly some basic facts and figures here for those of us who are a little while. Can our geography in our history? So we have a better idea what it what it is. We're actually talking about. First of all Indonesia is it is a nation made up of a whole large number of islands, right? You're quite correct depending on how one counts them that is whether whether to count them if they're on occupied or not. The the numbers range from 13000 on up and as you know, it's an archipelago which stretches approximately the width of the United States. So about the Indonesian territory approximately one-quarter is land and the rest is is territorial Waters and it's it's in a very strategic areas rest. That's right. The the ceilings from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific South China Sea. They're the ones of course that are Trevor's to buy all of the super. Anchors carrying a oil from the Middle East to are good allies a Japan and South Korea. Also, of course the seventh us 7th Fleet likes to be able to send it. So submarines through the Indonesian archipelago as they is they go from one ocean to the other so it York. You're very correct. It's strategically it's a very important area for us. And then of course there's a huge population which I can I don't think a lot of people are aware of what 200 over 200 million people that's correct now about 210 and that would that makes it the fourth most populous nation, correct? How did the how did all of these thirteen Thousand Islands end up as one country? Will the short answer is that's colonialism. There were a number of classical kingdoms around or between the 7th and 14th century that included large chunks of the area. However of the current political boundaries are very much a Dutch creation and they're there artificial in the sense that every virtually every island or virtually every island has more than one ethnic group on it. So the the political boundaries combined roughly 250 ethnic groups many of whom have mutually unintelligible languages. So until until the Dutch Colonial. Obviously these people didn't feel they belong together and the fact that they most of them feel that way now is really an amazing achievement. Sukarno the man who preceded suharto as the as the President of Indonesia was he did he leave the independence movement in Indonesia. Is that how he came to power? That's right. He started agitating in the in the 1920s building a nationalist movement in Tunisia was occupied by the Japanese and the Japanese gave great to sport to the Nationalist movement hoping of course, they could harness it to their greater. Asia co-prosperity sphere and then as the Japanese were big were surrendering sukarno proclaimed Independence in August of 1945. And because he was so Central to the Nationalist movement in already for 20-25 years and a very charismatic person. Also a Dutch Educated he seemed to be the you know, kind of these the obvious choice and was was really recognized as as the proclaimer of Independence and and the first president and was he a dictator type or democrat or how do we describe him? Will Indonesia started out its existence as a what I would describe as a liberal parliamentary system very much patterned upon the the Dutch a political system. It's kind of an irony and of course they were very idealistic in that they wanted to give you know, everyone over the age of I believe it was 16 of the right to vote. So you had universal suffrage immediately. No in a so-so sukarno was never involved in the day-to-day running of government in a parliamentary system. The president is the chief of state which is a symbolic position and the prime minister, of course is the head of government of the day-to-day chief executive officer. So it's better but it didn't work well for for a whole variety of reasons a part of which that the independence actually was achieved through a negotiated settlement the Dutch were not defeated. They tried to come back after the Japanese left. There was an extended guerrilla warfare during which time for Skinner Nation Army emerged and that's that's important history because it tells us why they feel one with the students in the students fill one with them. The Indonesian Army have always nurtured this notion that the day they were the Midwife of the Republic a back during the Revolutionary hero anyway, but in order to get the Dutch out, they had to compromise and essentially allowed its property to remain in Dutch hands to let the the the Dutch continue to control banking of the import export trade so you can imagine the handicap for a new Republic and its political leaders. I when they don't really have any power over economic policy. consequently, it was it was very it was very difficult. The country languished economically cabinets were short-lived. There was no majority party. So you had lots of the Coalition building and and we Coalition governments and finally in 1957. Sukarno just decided that something had to be done and he then indeed became a dictator and so from from 1957 to 65 we speak about guided democracy in Indonesia that was his term for it. And that's exactly what it was. If it really became an an autocratic government and it has stayed that way ever since moving out by so hard pill in what 60 66 67. Yes, and then The economy in Indonesia comes together under suharto doing real well until what last year and then the bottom fell out in Asia is at survive the long and the short of what happened. That's right. And and as we know as we look at the at the weaknesses and their deficiencies of this regime, I think it's important to keep in mind that it is indeed is a very nice picture. That is the human rights practices have been deplorable. Typically a Visa V East Timor. And of course when soup hardtail came to power there was a tremendous decimation of of left-wing organizations estimates of the loss of life range from 1/2 to 2 million. So so this is been a a regime in deep with blood on its hand but on the on the other hand, it's been unusually committed to development. And if we look at the human development index calculated by the United Nations development programme, which is a composite indicator containing information on literacy income and life expectancy for the 24 year. 1970 to 1994. Indonesia increased its human development index more than any other third world developing country. So, you know what while talking about the the autocracy the human rights violations. We also have to keep in mind that the welfare has improved for the vast majority of Indonesians until at least late last year. They made after they became a food self-sufficient. In the in the mid-80s, they've had a a world-renowned population control program. The military spending on armaments has been very modest. They've they have excelled in the education of their no primer School enrollment rates are almost in or are virtually 95 to 95% which we say is is, you know, there's virtually universals Elementary schooling in Indonesia now, so this development the irony is of course and in some ways, you know, what we're seeing now is simply another product of this development Innovation. People are are no longer willing to take this this autocratic government and a lot of the reason is that they've been educated by it when I get to some callers hear Professors 80 any particular reason why people here in Minnesota or anywhere in the United States for that matter should care much about this other than as a sort of an intellectual curiosity. First, I think is most important is the relationship of the University of Minnesota to Indonesia because we have turned out quite a few graduates and that the last was it to president House Alma made it was amazing the number of Loyola alumni who showed up at the reception in Jakarta. And also we have to remember that this is an excellent description. My colleague has given you before and I came here from Berkeley and most of the people who created this medical reaches has been described Economic Development. The technocrat were trained at Berkeley and they will call the Berkeley Mafia who went to avoid Indonesian. They were trained. Add Berkeley underworld Bank in other Grant at the other parties that there are important business connection to between Upper Midwest and Minnesota at Cargill and other companies are involved in more important is that the state of Minnesota has always been conscious of what has been happening in terms of the dramatic changes the drastic changes taking place. I'm sure that they would be very much interested in if what happens to Indonesia in Economic and Business terms. It is going to impact of the Pacific Rim and it is going to impact us indirectly. It will be a matter of time some of the state in the state will be more if I Could been us but certainly meaning of her Fortune 500 companies which are involved in that part of the world will be affected too. And may I had couple of other things in it is in the information which has been provided. The money is the ethnic groups has a mini Anthony groups, even though the majority of them in a Japanese 45% but there are other groups are involved in it. So to maintain Law and Order for this long is being are rather very singular complement of the cost of however, as is being described that lot of people died in the process. Same thing is language is already being mention many languages, but also the religious issues also some of the report which you have presented before there is this issue one of the most important part in Chicago knows time was that religion was not a dice. Religion in the fence as it is in other places. It was a circular Arrangement work which were not popular with the Muslim population, which was in majority but nevertheless you did not see that the fundamentalism type of activity in the government and and the business shows about his right or wrong. But the fact is that there was no organized effort on the part of the state to use religion as a vehicle as some other places have done. Any other point is beside education literacy rate, which is very very high the health whichever is mention. Also, the life expectancies in developing countries is not a very high but in 1990 the figure which I remember on the top of my head was a 62 years for women on that is the end. 58059 bar for men so that also suggested that they were a nutritionist and other kind of factors were involved. But now the situation is so different that the NBA from time permits. I'd be happy to talk some of the specifics on that. If you have a question or comment about Indonesia, or we're kind of sorting through the situation of the headlines that you've been reading the last couple of weeks and trying to make some sense of it all getting basic primmer today on the situation in Indonesia. Our guests Professor. My moods 80 who is with the universe Minnesota's Carlson School of Management. Dwight King is joined us. He is a professor at Northern Illinois universities with the center for Southeast Asian studies. And if you'd like to join our conversation Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two for two. 2828 Katherine go ahead, please. Thing that they have such an amiable connection so far and I'm wondering given suharto's control over the military how long that can last? Will an excellent question that we're all wondering but let me let me try to to do to give you an answer. I think that indeed what is going on now is very strong debate within the Armed Forces. If you've been following developments this week, you know that the head of the Electoral College or the the people's consultative assembly that elects the president called for suharto's resignation on Monday and then 4 hours later. The Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces General we are on till said that that call was premature. It was the speaker speaking for himself only and not this wasn't following constitutional procedures. So I so I think you know what that very clearly there is a of there's that there's at least two factions in the military. Also that's reflected in the fact that there's quite a bit to being said in the Press today about the fact that the current Crackdown that's resulted in canceling that the demonstration today was led by General probo. He was the one that was featured in the media in the Colts forum for the students to not to demonstrate and he is as you may know is President suharto son-in-law. Where is wiranto a more moderate General who is reputed to be closer and more sympathetic to the students. Although Superior to draw Bow Wow has apparently stayed in the background in the last. Day or two, so I guess everything turns on how United the armed forces are. I don't think the president is able to Simply manipulate them. I think they will be sensitive to to the political developments in the country, but not only in Jakarta. Of course, it's going to be important that that this anti suharto movement continue to build Nationwide. And if if that continues I think we can expect that. The Armed Forces will begin to to lean on on suharto if they haven't done already to to make more concessions or even to resign immediately. So I think the students are in a sense dependent upon this maneuvering going on with in the armed forces up at the same time. They're influencing it by their ability to organize the people and just one historical factors, which I'd like to add and that is when suharto and his new order government came to power 1966 the support for them came largely from the students. So it's kind of in the students traditionally in Indonesia have seen themselves as being kind of the conscience of the society. And now that it's ironic that the you know, the very student movements that they're brought him to power are now asking for him to step down and you know, they have they have clearly a strong moral force and strong influence upon the people I had upon the army. So it's I guess it's a reciprocal influence and it's it's hard to know exactly what happened what's going to happen. But as I said, it depends a lot of pain how unified the Armed Forces remain pressers 80 do you get the sense that we could be looking at? Another Tiananmen Square type Massacre is that likely to happen? I doubt it, but it is not to rule out. The only thing I would like to Professor Kings my reading of the situation that visit I have made to Indonesia would suggest the role of the Armed Forces at the moment probably have to kind when is to find a grave. Flexit if at all possible that for president suharto, he's one of them and who has accomplished a lot in the second is that they have to see who comes afterwards if you read their number of movements within the country and and it is quite possible that they may favor one over the other and I think that their major concern will be the stability of the country rather than have another General to come to power if anything they're likely to be an interim a government before the election. If so hard to leave so early because the economic situation right by here to enter but that is a very very important part. A lot of business is the intellectual classes are hurting what has happened. Look at the exchange rate which happened yesterday and today Monday and Tuesday it is a big drop. And that VR horror stories emerging of some of the businesses which are closing down. So it is going to deteriorate the economic situation further and therefore I think that there has to be some consideration given to a stabilizing the fruit governing system in the country scratch your question, please. I was I was wondering why exactly the human rights abuses that I Indonesia has been accused of have going on on ignore ignore it in the past, you know, 20 or so years me those of us who have been interested in what's going on in East Timor is kind of you know, there hasn't been much said in the US media and that's that's one thing. I like to be addressed. Is that why exactly haven't we heard about the problems until now and I'm the other thing was a comment it kind of goes along with the last caller and the discussion about the students is that I attended high school with a bunch of people from Indonesian. Afraid to go back because they've learned to kind of speak their mind and you won't be involved. You know what this new kind of liberal view that they received while they're here and a lot of them were kind of afraid to go back to Indonesia and then and there that, you know, are they going to be able to be quiet and and just be passive in that type of environment? So I'll just hang up and listen to thank you. Well, I think I let the professor King you speak more to it. But let me say a couple of things 1 year to let me take the second question first. They students roll. I have lectured in couple of where campuses there and like China economic situation is good and people can't live by bread alone. They want more and dozy students have been exposed to relatively free interaction with the people from outside the region either through education system or through the news media CNN and other Australian Broadcasting Company. So students are going to be on the Forefront and this time they have come back in there with the strong force and has Professor King. But pointed out these students were in the picture before 2 so they will remain a viable force. And from what I hear this morning is that they have been pretty stable in the senses that did not March that their leaders. I have decided to even pay some attention to the ethnic minorities like the Chinese who are under stress at this time whether this will continue is another matter on time or only quick Quest commentators is that I mean a visiting professor in Australia, and I thought it was in the news all the time, but I suppose in the states. There are so many other human right violations going on that it probably didn't get to as a larger and play as I probably should but at the same time It is a very difficult question for the Indonesians to handle at this time. So I let the professor King say it more because he he must be quite in touch with the situation. Well, I would certainly second what professor zaidi said about the students and the need to distinguish between them and what I would call the you know that the looters and the unemployed people who are out there taking this opportunity to to get the goods that they have perhaps never had and and need so these are two different groups the groups that were rioting last week as opposed to the students who offer example are occupying the Parliament building out exactly exactly and I think this is what this is. What is the scary about it when the people like the opposition leader Amon rice call for me. Rally's of the question is do they do they have the marshals that the nonviolent training to really be able to two keeps to keep control over eye movement when you have so many people on The Fringe that are are unemployed and who are really living hand-to-mouth and I think you know, that's and of course it's against that lower-class group that the Army will be merciless while the Army will will try or try not hard not to kill students it it's a it's a whole different thing against looters and ride don't have no hesitation whatsoever with regard to East Timor. The only thing I would add is that the Indonesians of course did a masterful public relations job and keeping the news out of the international view East Timor was kept very closed. It was very hard to get to to get news out about What was going on a particularly when the you know, when when the drought and all of the death occurred in the. Roughly 76 to 79 so they did a masterful public relations job. And I think it'll be the other important thing to note is that I imagined successive us administrations have been not unsympathetic with Indonesia. But because they know how we feel about having a Marxist lead government in our backyard or in our sphere of influence namely Cuba, so and certainly we've we've had them in his ministrations that have tried to to-do in Castro. So it's it's it's it's analogous I think a bit to that and if we understand you know that a lot of Americans could support Overturning overthrowing Castro then I think we can understand why the United States has been rather tight-lipped when it comes to criticizing Indonesia in East Timor until recently. Thank God for the Nobel Peace Prize last year, which should brought it into International a Consciousness running as the sour do I King who is with a center for Southeast Asian studies at Northern Illinois University and Professor mobile JD director of international programs at the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management. We are talking about Indonesia this hour trying to get a better handle on exactly what's happening in that country how it all started what's happening now and what is likely to happen in the future and just how it affects not only Indonesia, but the rest of the world as well get if you'd like to join our conversation to 276 thousand or one 802-422-8280 is a present of the Minnesota Indonesia Society Evelyn Evelyn Lee she's been in Contact with her family and friends and Indonesia. Good afternoon Evelyn. What is the latest from Jakarta that you here? my brother Pizza Plus hours difference between two car and took out time and so I've been really trying to keep up with it because it is hard for him to really assess a situation where he did say, however that dumped the airport at spot canceled and he didn't know that the building and surrounding area that about over 10,000 students in that area alone and about 250,000 troops have been deployed to have so many places and how many cities between Surabaya or actually closed down for allowed to go out of the houses. I'm on one might be to paint my own brother's being just in the house for the past few days. Play the music tuition for attorney Florida in the path of the anger of tomorrow in Benicia have been colonized by the Dutch for 3 and half centuries spotting in the DM on 1945 became a republic during that time. That's probably wants to divide and conquer so they did not allow any. Who owned businesses it's the Chinese who did who are allowed to own businesses and because they owned businesses the Chinese were able to go back to do Anthem and there was also the open one all these things that we drove a lot of the Chinese to Southeast Asia including did not come from a wealthy family. And this is a very complex issue. It is too bad. I just like children were abused. They have impact of a lasting impact on their website and they was weird many countries to put something coming to buy the arrest. I would suggest you listen to us to breed on his kind of breaking up on this year. What was the name of the book is called a kite and it's a very fascinating story about a prince from java. And what's he had to go through because of the Dutch and the stadium effect of the policies of the doctor on the psyche of the Japanese and some of the policy switch off. I will get them right to me to a lot of things that I did not know that happened in the past that some comments by my dads. Now. I understand why he was out that his children had been in touch. Series of books really will help Americans in the furnace to understand the impact of CO2 of East Timor. Just a quick question for you one last one at from what you've understood. Do you think that the military will crack down on these students to crack down on the other Auntie suharto forces or stay out of it? Actually that's here. And in fact, there was someone with school that I see that they don't care as long as they would be a gentleman Square might actually Focus. Thank you very much for joining us Evelyn Leigh. Who is the president of the Minnesota Indonesia Society US policy toward Indonesia. Well, what is our policy right now route relative to suharto? I see a secretary of state Albright calling for his resignation. But of course, he's already said he's going to resign just a question of time. Do we have any kind of well enunciated policy on this issue. Do we we supporting anybody other than soeharto? What's what's her what's her paws? What I have no inside information Professor King might have but my assessment is that the US government is very much concerned about the stability in that country and and the Senate and the Congress is also very much interested in the morgue instability. They also interested in the issues like democracy human rights and so on up in the Forefront would we be willing to trade the professor? Can you think would be willing to trade some some stability for an improvement in human rights change in US policy? It's never been very clear. But I think in the in the last a week or two what we're seeing is that for once we're beginning to realize that it's just not Economic problem in Indonesia that the confidence of the International Community the the investors the currency Traders is not going to return without some political reform. So I think that you know, we're being very careful. I think that is it hard leverage in Indonesia is not very much and we have to be very very careful that led to what we do is not counter-productive. And as you pointed out as a secretary Albright waited until too hard on himself said he would resign and then she called for his resignation, but we've been careful not to specify a deadline or any kind of a time frame. So I think we're in a very difficult position. Now if we have any Leverage is going to probably be exerted through these IMF installments that I think there's there's another one due June one sounds Like that's going to be postponed and maybe it will be dependent upon the some some more political concessions being given by suharto. So I would I guess I I'm just I I think Americans have to realize that there are leveraged there is pretty is pretty small. You're giving what the demographic and other things Professor King described. It has a reservoir of people who can move the country towards more democratic institution. One of the important part is the Constitution which is very small but it is the oldest constitution which has is still being used and abused of course, but nevertheless it does talk about keeping the islands together. There is some stability in the date of the consensus on that constitutional all groups and most important part is for us in the United States will be used to make sure that we are not ignoring Forces in Indonesia and concentrating entirely on mr. Soeharto or the military that they are because I did is going to be some kind of compromise and that compromise will be along the lines with Professor King describe. That is the economic and political stability cannot come without having a political stability and I suppose the reverse is true as well. No political stability as long as the economy is in the tank and then there's the jet German banks Japanese Banks Korean and other banks are involved in Tunisia. If Indonesia economically goes in the tank the vibrational I mean the economy goes in the tank the vibration of that will be far and wide. Already the situation which is bad in East Asia and Southeast. Asia is going to get worse. The company's some companies which had come to work in Indonesia Japanese companies to take advantage of the low exchange rate so that they can export from there to other places. They are closing down. So that means that it is already not possibility for even the companies which one to help employment that provide employment 2 in converted Indonesia. They can't do it unless there is a political come and that's why it is very important for the United States that the loan which we will help with for whether it is Korea South Korea Thailand in the Philippines or Malaysia for that matter, which is not in the same boat butter it deportation is going to be for invite and that's why it is very important that everybody in the US remain. Bald because looking at what is the alternative if are we going to be involved much more heavily if the instability reaches in the fragmentation of Indonesia as we know it today Eric your question place. SSID that Indonesia's Indonesia. How old is General civil unrest has that plays into the city. Is it probably is it affecting maybe Japan more severely than the United States and in other countries. Professors it might have figures on his tip of his tongue on this. I don't I would just observe that in terms of world's oil supply. I doubt whether more than 5% is coming from Indonesia. Indonesia is far more important if we talked about particular countries as you just mentioned, Japan and Indonesia, if I'm not mistaken is now the world's number one producer of liquefied natural gas, but I haven't heard that any of that has been disrupted by this unrest much of his offshore. And as far as I know those that oil production that continues apace I agree with Professor king's head and the only thing I lied that I will ever did the doors a Productions are outside, but they have to be moved across and and if there is a problem on The Harbours in other places, that will create Some difficulty and I'm sure that there is concern in countries like Japan they have always been very very concerned anytime that has been fear off the field, doing research work through the no Manson Church lived with a man named Bob pockrass reboot. Does anybody know Papa's Pastaria, boo? I don't Professor King. Do you reboot sounds to me? Like it's a name of a of a bataclan with that. So there probably are a lot of people with that name. And unfortunately, I did that name doesn't ring a bell with me a lot of economic Workforce. Suharto in the 70s. I think Anna and spending time there. I was aware back in the late 80s that and I was told a number of times by different people in the University. No mention University that you know, Indonesia is a very big bomb with a very long fuse and that's how they always described it to me a very very long has Nancy and a very very big bomb And meaning that the country was going to essentially dissolved blow apart at some point and it didn't and they were anticipating, you know in the 90s again and here we have it. I guess they're pretty good at you know, predicting that my question is how how widespread is stuff going on there with the military. Is it as far north as made on? Ovary definitely, I think you made on his had all kinds of demonstrations. And the other thing about me. As you probably will know there's a lot of urban factory factory labor there and a lot of those people are now unemployed and that that's really been a hotbed of Labor unrest gentleman. We don't have a lot of time left here, but just a just a few points here for four people to zero in on what it is likely going to be the next significant event over there to watch for. Is it a formal declaration from suharto that I quit I Walk Away Now, is it going to be some kind of a extra active military response from the military protest being called off what's likely going to occur next year that we should keep an eye on. Well, the thing that I'm watching very carefully is to see how this apparent conflict between the the the head of the Electoral College are Moco and in general. We are one we are Rancho the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces how this is going to play out of my Moco calling for for resignation. We're onto in the armed forces appearing the back the president's call for a the transitional phase. If we think about immediate resignation. It's it's it's tough to think about how this how a new government could be quickly installed at least one with broad legitimacy are they don't have money for an election perhaps United States would want to give them or or loan them that money that would be an idea for our 8 but that's a big operation as you might have imagined. So how to how to satisfy the students in the short run and yet bring about meaningful. Change quickly is is going to be a real love a tough nut to crack. Any what are you watching? Your reaction will be I foresee probably an interim government coming in and that probably military will remain either in the Forefront or in the background and secondly and then they are looking probably the kind of group which come into power the power they can work with the people they can work with who have sat who share their values and those I'm talking about the stability and economic values are talking about the show my take on that will be that there is going to be things in the flags as Professor King pointed out these battle of wits going on among different groups. And I think that the person who is in the news nowadays more of my Momma Dee grouper. Leading in some way in the popular election might have some way to achieve his goal and whether this person would be acceptable to the military is another issue. So all I'm just saying Habibi group is in other words and who is mentioned in that category. So I think they are waiting going to wait and see and most important part. My book will be is that they would like to see probably so hard to doesn't go the way sukarno situation is there is a model is a model before we're military came in and said, we'll take care of everything and then they deposed Chicano. So it is quite possible that if it doesn't go that there may be a replay of what has happened before pressure cooking a very briefly. Is there any chance hear that Indonesian will essentially Break Up Fall Apart? I don't think so. I think the the country has come a long way in terms of Economic Development. I think people realize that is that they have an awful lot to lose if that were to happen. If it becomes more democratic than it's possible that East Timor might get much more time me that it now has and maybe even if the independence but with the exception of of East Timor, I would expect the rest of the country to remain intact. Okay, we have to run but thank you so much for joining us today welcomed. Do I King who is with the center for Southeast Asian studies at Northern Illinois University Professor my moods 80. Thank you for coming by he is a director of international programs at the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management. Thanks to all of you have been joining us this hour on. Midday Gary I can hear. Hope you can join us tomorrow. Get behind the programming you come to enjoy and count on become a listening member of Minnesota Public Radio now for information. Call one 800-227-2811. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a partly cloudy Sky 68° at care W FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul the Twin City weather forecast calls for partly cloudy Sky all afternoon high in the mid-70s increasing Cardinals tonight with a low in the mid-fifties 30% chance for rain tomorrow the high in the mid-70s.

Funders

Digitization made possible by the State of Minnesota Legacy Amendment’s Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund, approved by voters in 2008.

This Story Appears in the Following Collections

Views and opinions expressed in the content do not represent the opinions of APMG. APMG is not responsible for objectionable content and language represented on the site. Please use the "Contact Us" button if you'd like to report a piece of content. Thank you.

Transcriptions provided are machine generated, and while APMG makes the best effort for accuracy, mistakes will happen. Please excuse these errors and use the "Contact Us" button if you'd like to report an error. Thank you.

< path d="M23.5-64c0 0.1 0 0.1 0 0.2 -0.1 0.1-0.1 0.1-0.2 0.1 -0.1 0.1-0.1 0.3-0.1 0.4 -0.2 0.1 0 0.2 0 0.3 0 0 0 0.1 0 0.2 0 0.1 0 0.3 0.1 0.4 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.4 0.5 0.2 0.1 0.4 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.2 0 0.4-0.1 0.5-0.1 0.2 0 0.4 0 0.6-0.1 0.2-0.1 0.1-0.3 0.3-0.5 0.1-0.1 0.3 0 0.4-0.1 0.2-0.1 0.3-0.3 0.4-0.5 0-0.1 0-0.1 0-0.2 0-0.1 0.1-0.2 0.1-0.3 0-0.1-0.1-0.1-0.1-0.2 0-0.1 0-0.2 0-0.3 0-0.2 0-0.4-0.1-0.5 -0.4-0.7-1.2-0.9-2-0.8 -0.2 0-0.3 0.1-0.4 0.2 -0.2 0.1-0.1 0.2-0.3 0.2 -0.1 0-0.2 0.1-0.2 0.2C23.5-64 23.5-64.1 23.5-64 23.5-64 23.5-64 23.5-64"/>