6 minutes now past 11 programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by standard heating and air conditioning the Twin Cities Home Comfort Experts for 68 years featuring York Heating and Cooling products. And good morning. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary I can glad you could join us. It is hard to remember now what it was like back then back before television. But yes indeed, Virginia there was a time when people didn't watch TV simply because there wasn't any TV to watch however for minnesotans all that changed on April 27th, 1948 50 years ago when KSTP TV channel 5 been on the air for over a year. KSTP was Minnesota's only TV station matter fact KSTP was the only television station between Chicago and Los Angeles eventually, of course several other stations join Channel 5, but KSTP has remained one of the industry's true Pioneers KSTP for example is the first station to offer viewers daily regularly scheduled 10 p.m. Newscast the first station in the Upper Midwest broadcast programs in color the first station to offer all of its programs in color. KSTP was a parent. The first TV station in the world to do investigative reporting the list of first goes on and on and we should mention one important last as well. KSTP is the last locally owned and operated TV station in the Twin Cities. This week kstp-tv is beginning its 50th anniversary celebration and joining us. This hour is Stanley S Hubbard who along with his father Stanley Hubbard has led the way in the development and growth of TV in state of Minnesota TV Pioneer Stanley S Hubbard, the chairman CEO of Hubbard broadcasting is here to talk some history of take your questions that we invited to give us a call or Twin City area number is 227-6002 to 7 6008 side the Twin Cities 1-800. 242-282-8227 6001 800-242-2828. Robert thanks for coming in today. Did you have any idea fifty years ago that TV was going to turn out to be such a pervasive and influential medium know nobody did what did you think was I mean you had this little box pictures were going and that was that was fairly amazing technologically, but what did you what did you see happening with medium-well. Nobody really knew what was going to happen with a medium and everybody who fought about visual entertainment thought in terms of movies are they thought in terms of the stage vodka or whatever and when television begin it was very uncertain as to whether or not it would even be a success because the bankers and the people who are potential investors thought it was such a high risk. It was very difficult to get money. So when he started we flew by the seat of our pants is the flying single is there was no real blueprint the believe the initial idea was to try and make it a radio with pictures and I never my dear Dad tried to get the all the way your people cuz we've been in the radio business. Involved in development of TV and everybody thought in terms of radio radio radio and it was a very different thing was mostly Talking Heads at the very start the camera on somebody who are know it would been on the radio. So no one had any idea how long did it take for people to get enough enough people to get TVs in their home so that you are actually broadcasting to somebody. Well it took until the mid-fifties probably 5354 before we had a substantial enough audience to really make it worthwhile. But strangely enough television started to return a profit after about four years and no one ever drop that what happened to plan. Our company was that we would start the television the regular trade for 10 or 12 years. Well that flip flop pretty quickly got a foothold and I had course I have to ask this question since I'm in the radio business here that the Assumption was well radio it go out of business. Why do you spell is TV didn't drive radio out of business because radio started doing different. People people think about things in terms of what they know what they understand the old days of radio. Of course, there was a big for the big radio on the living room and people sat around the radio just where they sit around the television or they sat in the kitchen and they listen to Jack Benny or Bob Hope or whatever just like we watch television today. So people perceived that their 50% this is what radio is Radio is sitting watching what was later going to become television and they couldn't receive the radio could evolve into something new and different which radio has Did people make fun of you and your father early days with TV saying well, gosh, you're putting too many eggs. And in that basket was asked by the chairman of the FCC Lawrence fly back in 1950 or 1947. If you wouldn't try and get together a group of Minnesota Western, Wisconsin, South Dakota North Dakota and Iowa broadcasters to try and convince these people that they should think about going into television because at that time you could have had a television license in almost any city in America, if you just sent a postcard to the FCC people were so afraid of it and it was so new and different. So this I was a young guy is a teenager when you got the scoop together and I was there and tried to pitch them at television was going to make sense and the response he got was Roy you really are a traitor the radio and you're going to lose all your money and your crazy and I will never work and people aren't going to spend this high price for a TV set. So it was everything. We see the day when you talk about satellite, for example, anything new Hubbard broadcasting has been a real leader in technological innovation. Why is that? Well as my I had I grew up in a family where my father built his first radio station in 1923. He and some people literally build it with her own two hands and he was always interested in technology have been a pilot in early barnstorming pilot. I need love new things and new technology and I grew up in this business at a time when technology was consulate ain't changing. I remember when there was no video tape and everything had to be life at are all set of a film and microphone video tape came that change the whole nature television because you could go out and shoot a new story bring it back to the studio and not have to process film. You can put that tape in the machine and go ahead on the air. So I grew up in an era where things were changing. We're going from film to video tape and remember going to color television. I'm going to North Stetson everything was changing know. It's kind of flat not in terms of the advances in technology for television at television stations. That's pretty much been the same for quite a few years to see advantage. The new changes in special effects and you know how we keep do our County when new computer some things but it's basically the same business. We don't have the demand on a yearly basis we had for years and years and years. If ever you're going to buy something new. Otherwise we're going to be fall behind programming has become the thing. Did you get into satellite broadcasting and part cuz you were getting bored because of a the technological innovations that pretty well leveled off in in broadcasting broadcast because every broadcaster weather be regular TV, I think so I think thinks in terms of expanding their coverage area and Horizons and I saw on satellite a new way to reach people with new types of programming on a national basis. Where is a local company such as our eyes which were a Saint Paul Minneapolis company could not possibly think in terms of national exposure. So that's that really got me. Satellite a new cheaper better way to reach people from coast to coast. There are a good many people who say that TV is responsible for many of society's ills. Alright, would you agree with those folks? Well, if knowledge breeds the old and I think that's probably true. I don't think that knowledge Minnesota Brazil. It is true that if you and I even talked about this the other day if I look at my children or my Karen my children are children are I look at our grandchildren. I see how much more they know. About the world and what goes on in the world will it be science or will it be history or Weatherby world events that I knew when I was 11 12 13 14 years old. It's amazing. And I think a lot of that is to do a television whether it be public television or whether it be 20 20 or whether it'd just be an entertainment show on television where you're seeing the world tell him he's just brought the world individual means to everybody's eyeballs. So we all know more and I don't know how anybody can say that it's bread evil. Unless you want to keep people ignorant. Is it tough competing with all the big Mega corporations now you are The Last of a Dying Breed really around here. Anyway for the only last you all over the country that the FCC has changed the rules in the Congress. In the last few years he used to be that you could own 7 TV stations and five of them could be VHS into could be UHS. You couldn't have seven fish of stations and now they change the formula to a percentage of coverage of the United States. You can own up to 25% coverage of the TV homes United States in this is enabling companies like ABC NBC CBS and some other companies to buy television stations and have a huge coverage. And of course in the Twin Cities, we've got Channel 11 is owned by Gannett and tell the Forest Home by CVS. I don't know how much Helen 29 and 10.3 but they are known locally. So we're together with Minnesota public television. I really the only local locally owned and operated TV stations and I see is it as an advantage because people can that work in our company in our TV station freezing up or I can come to the manager and get an answer. Where is it Channel 411 you often have to go to Washington and the case of 11 or a New York and a case of Channel 4. Cancers and policies dictated from New York and Washington, where is here where local we live here? We understand. We hope we understand the marketplace and more responsive. So I think it's an advantage. It's not like I like a pro sports Ray's Apple wear a ultimate leave a family owned franchises really got run out of business. I just couldn't compete with the big guys Market will support a certain caliber of talent. For example, you know, you can't afford to pay an Anchorman 20 million dollars. I don't know if anybody does it is pulled that number out of the air but New York, obviously you have to go for New York City my television station can afford to pay a lot more than anchor person than you can in Minneapolis-Saint Paul. So that's true of all the stations are owned by a network or by local and we keep the money here. The Goshen Diner Charities goes into our economy our he is the chairman and CEO of Hubbard broadcasting a kstp-tv, which Stanley Hubbard's father started in 1948 is celebrating its 50th Anniversary this year, and we thought it'd be a great opportunity to look back on the history of KSTP specifically TV in general. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach us toll-free and that number is 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828. Stanley Hubbard is our guest this our first college to Minneapolis Jackal head place. Oh, yes. I had a question about the you mentioned at the KSTP was the first ever television station in the world to do investigative reporting and I was curious what they investigated back then he had an examples. Well, I can give you samples back in 1952 when hardly any TV stations are even do any news any place my wife a little background TV station has saw news is a big loser and they didn't want to invest into his and so almost all TV stations in the United States had nothing but maybe five minutes of lose. It was a throwaway and my dear Dad had the idea that we're in the Publix in the business is serving the public in the news is important we had to do news. So back in 1952. He had heard a report that a prisoner named Sturdivant was in the same called before inventory have been hit over the head with a pipe by a guard and killed. And we start Leonard taking investigation. I remember I was a young teenager going with him to the ER to Stillwater and the prison system when you turn it be interviewing murderers and things was very exciting and it turned out that was a result of kids teepees investigative reporting of the court order to exhume examination of the body of the sky's tournament and indeed it turned out when the pathologist looked at it that he had been hit over head by a pipe children did not die of natural causes. Another example of comes to mind is at Northwest Airlines about that time was introducing Martin 202 airplanes are they had one crash at Fountain City of the Wings came off on one came down and over Minnehaha Parkway Minneapolis and crashed and we were able to get me the company were able to get photographs of at the at the Northwest repair facility of airplanes being sent back in a service that had cracked Wing spars. We have the photographs of your photographs of the cracked Wing spars. So we we had a big exclusive and that store That blew that whole management out of Northwest Airlines Crow Hunter and his people had to leave in a new management to over so there's two good examples of way back in the early fifties take long for four other stations elsewhere to start picking up on this cuz of course now these these investigative reports especially during sweeps week or something. We've become accustomed to it took a long time along that many many years and it wasn't until the sixties a television generally around the country started to realize that they should be in the news business and it's turned into a business and business. That's why I read so important in the television news. You see that continuing the Network's the network news shows apparently are losing viewers by The Bushel full. Do you think that's going to happen at the local level 2 what happened to network news? And it really is a result of something that we did right here in St. Paul Minnesota. We We Begin our company kids to be in her broadcasted begin the world's first satellite news Gathering. Service and we made it possible for a television stations to communicate with each other by a KU Band Satellite and 1/2 trucks. We built the very first trucks. You see the satellite trucks. Everybody has we did the first ones and that timer by said just like they did about television you'll never work you're crazy. But what has happened as a result of 7 News Gathering is that the Network's no longer are able to control the news agenda. The network news comes out at 5:30 and all ABC NBC CBS used to be before the introduction of the Satellite News Gathering technique that the local stations had to wait until the network spot them National or international news. Well today you can turn on your local television station. You can find out what's going on anywhere in the world any time of day or night without having to wait for the network. So the importance of the network news in terms of use of having to wait for the network to find out what's going on is changed and the networks have had to change their format of new is there's more investigative more feature stories. That although who's the person of the week and that's what Locally station news are getting is getting stronger not weaker. And I don't see any way that local news is not going to be important Chris. Your question please casting is so proud of its Local Roots. Why it why do they not broadcast any locally produced films are documentaries. I mean move away from the exploited is Jerry Springer style stuff. Well, we don't have Jerry Springer as a matter of fact, my son Ralph we serve president of our TV division had a couple of the station managers wanted to buy Jerry Springer and he said no we're not going to do that. We're not into that kind of business doing local documentaries of is it's a nice thing to talk about and I would like to do more of it than we do. It's very very expensive and it doesn't generally draw very much audience and therefore it can't very well pay for itself. So it's difficult to redo documentaries quote on quote is I think of documentaries unless we're talking about different things you think in general and a you put yourself in this but in general I do you think TV operators are Could they get by making a little less money and maybe give up a rating point or two and put on more? I don't know Public Service type of news programming. Well, we do we do millions of dollars of public service every year and and I got example and something happened such as a floods last spring this television stations all turn to and gave up all off. A lot of time. We give up more of our product we have to sell than any other industry by a country mile by way of public service and Community things that we do. Yeah, I suppose when you eat when we sit look at the budget we can say we could do a little less commercial and do more non-commercial but we're very very generous all television or radio stations are generous. Nick your question place has to do with accountability and responsibility in broadcasting. I think in terms of codes of ethics for example, and I'm curious why mr. Hubbard chooses not only not to participate in the news console, but why he publicly says negative things about it. Well, I wear to make it a sitting out of the present management of kstp-tv, which has been in place for several years and includes me is kind of a interloper but I don't make the decision to talk to news Council about being a member and I don't know what their element decision will be when I was operating the television station. I chose not to be in my associates with me not to be members the newest console because he saw the newest console is kind of a kangaroo court. We do have courts of this land we have libel laws and we try and we try and be very honest and fair and aboveboard. We do make retractions what we say something wrong we try and correct it and we didn't think that we wanted to voluntarily take part of something. We thought they could be used against us in an unfair Manner and I think Mac Show now has the same impression. I don't know but but if we harm somebody and they come to us and talk to us, we have always been able to work it out and if we have been able to work it out if there's the Recourse is to go to court. We don't want to have what I call a kangaroo fart. I may be wrong, but that was my opinion. And that's the decision we made and I don't know what the ongoing management management will do week or two ago. The governor gave a speech and he said that all the news media Auto adopt kind of formal code of ethics code of conduct and specifically speaking about TV said that he would love nothing more than if if you folks did away with this week's weeks programming. What what what do you mean tweets weeks and I think that our best to be there every day of the year all year long and not to try and save a lot of the better stuff for the sweep weeks. I have no I agree with the governor in that regard as four have a setting up a code of ethics. I think there is a Code of Ethics but you run an antitrust problems of the National Association of broadcasters Hadley what they call the NAB code for many many years and when mr. Carter V. President he looked at it and said that his justice department. Look at it said that may be a good thing but it's an antitrust violation and therefore you may not have a code of ethics or an NAB court. So there is no code word or all individual operators, but I think the people are pretty fascicle Pat your question place for high-definition television. of the FCC and the Congress has said that we're going to go to Digital television and to go to Digital television. We have to do it in such a way that it will not be overly burdensome to the general public Coast Brewing Pub. So the first thing that happened is that you can either chat to know if you cannot broadcast high definition television on the same channel and what you broadcast dinner definition television at the same time. So for example last night and we're NYPD Blue is on from 9 to 10 on KSTP have done that program in high definition and had you people who have TV sets today watch it at home. So the government get around that the FCC decided they would loan broadcasters and it's very important that I underline the word loan Hideout high frequency spectrum in UHF band for the so-called transition. So we have been authorized to have I think it's Channel 55. In fact, I have that thing in my pocket I did have and channel for is going to go to channel 32. Where to go to channel 50 in Channel 9 will go to Channel 26 and channel to go to Channel 34 for the so-called transition. Next fall in the top 10 markets are Next Bite by the night next Fall by by Christmas time. You'll see in the top 10 markets that the network affiliate stations will start broadcasting in digital format on these new channels and some will be high definition of some of this point just be digital and standard format will be doing that a year later or I6 or nine months later in the Twin Cities then is required in the top 10 markets WCCO, which is owned by CBS might go earlier. I don't know it's going to be a very slow process because if we were to switch over the high definition or Digital television, the television sets you had today would not work unless you bought a 250 to 300 dollar converter. And although we would like to see if a rapper transition to high definition digital television and it's going to be a slow transition because it all depends on the consumer if people buy a lot of high-definition television sets still happen fast, if they don't buy them, I won't happen so fast, you can decide for yourself off assets going to happen when you realize that the first TV sets are going to self remind $8,000. That's not going to be very big Marketplace. You'll be able to buy converters probably where she will be just like we do now on satellite with our digital broadcasting. Will you have a converter and it converts it back to what we call analog which is this the television you have today, so it will be doing it and will be a slow transition. It'll all depend on how fast people buy sets. Will it make that much difference? I mean is there that much I don't think there's a $8,000 difference for most people but is it that radically? Different and better than what we got now today if you have a digital TV set and you look at a digital transmission, the picture will be much better than it is today much better. If you want that you will not have to worry about ghosts. I think it might not it might be bad for cable because those people who feel they need cable because they're worried about getting a bad picture and getting ghost once HGTV comes. If you look close enough in the cities, you'll be able to use a rabbit ears or put an antenna up and you will never ever have to worry about it goes to get an absolutely crystal clear picture free over-the-air without having to pay the cable company, but you'll see a difference it will be different in terms of picture quality and I'll be different in terms of having program guides available. For example, like we have on the satellite system. How is the Internet going to play and all of this? How do you say that working into the into this new age of TV television and you talk about the internet your kind of I think talking about interactive television. And every place an interactive television has been tried to date it is failed and I think the reason is failed wall of marketplace showing reasons fails of people are generally passive there. A lot of people like you is the internet when people watch your television, they sit back for their feet up on the coffee table and they relax and they have the remote control in her hand in there. It's past is the past of experience. So I do not think the internet is going to be all that great on your television said, although there are there is equipment available to from Microsoft now and from Thompson where you can you can access the internet on your TV set so far has not been very popular. It may become popular. I don't know Stanley Hubbard is our guest this our mr. Hubbard is the chairman and CEO of Hubbard broadcasting and that's the that's the company that has operated kstp-tv for these last fifty years. This is the 50th anniversary of the start of television in the state of Minnesota and Hubbard has come by today. Take your questions talk a little history. We invite you to give us a call to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand. If you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach its toll free at one eight hundred to +422-828-227-6102 for 22828 and we'll get to see more colors in just a moment smoke comes from behind the screens more flashing lights confetti flies up. I'm learning Benson on the next All Things Considered audio description. It's a service that helps blind people get the full benefit of theater. The production tells the story. I just give the visual cues that aren't available to people who can't see that story on the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities invitation to join us over the noon hour today the second over mid day program or going offline to the National Press Club in Washington Mae. Jemison is a speaking app. Press Club, but she is a former astronaut first African American woman to serve as a US astronaut, and she's going to be talking about Science Education over the noon hour today beautiful spring day sunny partly sunny across Minnesota, and that's the forecast all afternoon highs today mid-60s to mid-seventies should be clear tonight, and basically more of the same tomorrow Twin Cities partly cloudy today with a high around 70 right now at 61 and sunny in the Twin City metropolitan. Area code is our guest this hour. We're talking about the 50 years of TV broadcasting at KSTP the first station in our area. In fact the first TV station anywhere in the Upper Midwest went on the air April 27th, right Detroit 1948, you'd like to get. Mr. Hubbard a call. If questioned. Give us a call. 227-6004 1 800-242-2828 James your question. Congratulation for Smith Jr. Father 4 p.m. Leaders in technology. Thank you very much. And I'd like to have a question about the possibility of ever broadcasting and stereo. 303 Dimension perhaps using holographic techniques that that made turn out one day to be a very good use of digital technology. I know the Japanese have been some Japanese companies in space Premiere live in demonstrating 3D television. I have not seen it but I've heard it's quite interesting and I am not going to say that anything is impossible. How did they get the it seemed like they got way ahead of us are at least for awhile. How did that happen and television manufacturing broadcast technology technological development on R&D research and development and they built better equipment and they sold it for a better place and they're marketed. It's more smartly and Companies in this country who have been the only people that had they had a monopoly on the sale of TV sets and I'll people such a Zenith another's and they sat back and got worried more about prophets and way more about the quarterly reports in about their customers and that's what happens. When we we gave the communicator the electronic manufacturing business away to the Japanese. Do you think that may have gave it away? Do you think that that may pose problems down the road again what with the these giant corporations many of them seem to have no background in broadcasting and now they're operating the radio and TV stations. Are they just they just got a male cat and milk the businesses for all it's worth and I hope that I don't know. I hope not. Gem, your question, please. I have a question about the choice of programming for a satellite service are there seems to be a continual increase in the number of channels available? But to me, it looks much the same there's you had another movie channel. You had another Nostalgia Channel and I wonder why some Channels with getting International programming or not added. For example, I ain't no number of people here who are recent immigrants who would die to have an international sports channel to CBC in Canada is a wonderful alternate. If in fact I am br1 radio has some of its programs and I wonder why that's not being added. Well, our first fire company u.s. Cellular broadcast is in between the Cricut if we were watching the cricket championship for the last couple months. They we've had that on every every week. The reason is this isn't my vision for the drug by can I sell a business is which for those who don't know is when you buy an 18 inch satellite dish and you can watch programming from a satellite 200 or more channels. My vision is to do a lot of different programming International what I what we call me master programming we called Minnie Mouse in that in that Niche programming if you ever get a national audience could be enough of an audience. So it's still a mass audience. Well at the news program, the problem we have is we need to get enough subscribers to make it economically feasible to buy an or develop new and different programming. So right now you're exactly right. We are of your anymore movie channel for HBO more Showtime more of those kinds of things to see on cable on our for example in our system u.s. Cellular broadcast. We want more than 9 Under different movie titles a month for 9:39 dollars and ninety-five cents. My hope is when we reach for 5 million homes were not just about 2 million it when that happens will dinner be in a position to start adding new and different programming of the type of shirt talking about. How do you see that playing out Miss Robert Lee the satellite broadcasting versus the cable broadcasting? Well about two-thirds of our subscribers are coming from cable and I see it was a very strong competitor to Cable. There is a misunderstanding on the part of some consumers who think that if they were to drop the cable and go to the satellite. They wouldn't be able to get the local stations but there are forgetting that the best way to get a local station for almost everybody is an antenna a better picture doesn't cost you any money. So we're about to undertake a campaign for the satellite into future from outdoor antennas or indoor antennas depending on where you live and if we're publishing Maps it will show you anywhere in United States if you so here's where I live in this map. It'll take sexy what kind of antenna to buy and now Make it possible to have all this moldy Channel programming much better quality than you get from cable from the satellite and get the local programming free over there to the two industries coexisting long-term or is one going to win in the other going to lose all I think that they'll be cable be around for a long time. And I think we'll both be here Richard your next assignment curious many corporations make mistakes and they're running a business and NBC and then you switch to ABC any regrets No, we have no regrets. In fact, the former Vice chairman of NBC a David Adams left NBC shortly after we left NBC and he said standing you did the right thing. We left NBC not for Ratings reasons. We left a VC because NBC because they were going through a time. When they were firing all the old Personnel are they had no idea what they were doing. It was kind of a Cutthroat operation and end when Grant take her turn. I took over ABS NBC back in the 80s. He turned around and made it into the great company that was before but we left ABC for cultural NBC4 cultural reasons, not for Ratings reasons, and we have no regrets. We should we eat today on 5 NBC TV stations. We have good relations with both networks ever. Have you ever wish that you had become a big Network Puba? Well, I know I've already said too early on the Volvo cup broadcasters are like to spread their fight. It's hard to become a big Network Food Lion have to give up living in Minneapolis-Saint Paul, which I don't want to do and you have to give up running your own operation, which I don't want to do. So wherever local guys are going to local business. Mike your next just mr. Hubbard you had said earlier that KSTP made the decision that they work and carry programming like Jerry Springer regardless of the ratings as a matter of policy and I guess I should agree with that. I have a question the twins in the Twin Cities receive Nightline a half an hour later than the rest of the country. So KSTP can have, dearie runs after the local news will Gurley make the station more money there seems to be a little bit of an inconsistency there a way to love the movie night land that is that channel 11 for cheers on And cheers greatly enhance our news audience believe it or not know there was it there's a there's a spillover from the file from the show that comes after new is to the newest and help your news ratings. We found a few some research and then actually found out too practical experience. It went by moving Nightline. We didn't reduce the audience size and I mean as amazing as that may be silent you we didn't remove it. We didn't lose audience size those people who are going to watch the progress. We have an hour. We're not going to watch Nightline at 10:30. Anyway for the most part sew Nightline was moved to 11:30. I think there's a good chance to will the new news or his management of KSP. That might be moved back to 10:30. I don't know yet not making any promises and a wave ECG is talking to the guy who runs the station a lot and my son Rob so we'll see what happens. What are the big changes that occurred in local TV news used to be you had what was it 15 minutes of nose and then a five Weather cast and then you had a 10 minutes of sports get a discrete programs and then the channel for went to their seen tonight thing and pretty soon we had this what do you make of that do you like the new approach where everybody that got to the Happy Talk the banter with the the newscasters and and the restroom know the news is brought to you by Ford motor and the weather by Butternut coffee. Whatever in the sports by Standard Oil, I don't know who but anyway, it has changed and it went and modern packaging made it possible to make more money get more revenues to produce a news by going to be a spot. Instead of a program that was sponsored for the no longer. Do we have individual sponsors for the show is used to see sponsors and all for the Texaco Star Theater or for this program of that program and it became a business of spa of advertising spot ever tasted. And that is not going to change it was for the banter between anchors and whatever. It's it's almost got to be a science as to what people like and what they don't like to watch and not everybody likes to watch it. But what did the age group that you're trying to get to watch the news like and it's got to be a science and people know that for example, we know that the people like to have a male and female co-anchor very interesting thing with that's the way it is and what the changes will be in the future. Who knows. I know things change. Do you feel comfortable have to have you felt comfortable with that move in the industry over time and it seems like Hubbard broadcasting has been mean to don't misinterpret this but kind of a fly by the seat of your pants operation your innovators, you're doing new things. You can kind of bog down with all this focus group stuff and science research and all the rest of the lights. Meaning of what the viewer wants and our job is to serve our customers are fewer the people live in the area. And so we had we do a lot of market research to try and find out what just what it is. People want Cigna. Go ahead. Is the habits as a mother of a student who will graduate in communication journalism within a year. I was wondering if you had some good advice for the young people today. What kind of internship and experience do you think they should get during a summer break and I will tape it for him and listen to thank you. Mr. Hubbard is an internship a case to Pier One of the other stations are one of the radio stations in know the more experience that a student can get the better and when the student finish the school my best advice as you go to a smaller market and you get a job in radio television and you get experience through all up from all facets of radio and television, then you move on to a bigger Market made you go from a Rochester to a Duluth to have some other marketing and up Sunday in the Twin Cities, but it it's it's get as much experience as you can and just take advantage at all every chance you have Tim your question, please broadcast situation or if you're contemplating getting into that side of it with the telephone line. Using a telephone telephone lines to get the TV signal in the valves to try and compete with cable television using telephone lines, but then there's an are you at Wes's talking about it. We will not be getting into it. We're free over-the-air or elsewhere satellite Karen your question for Stanley Hubbard place in Southeast Minneapolis in Prospect Park, and I'm wondering what the plans are for that facility on University Avenue KSTP just recently bought a fairly large piece of property behind a studio and close off a piece of 4th Street and according to the neighborhood annual report that's going to be used for a quote broadcast campus. And I wonder what a broadcast campus is Everybody Talks by campuses today. No 3M has a campus and Honeywell has a campus in the school has a campus. When will your food or campus should just talkin about do different operations of a company being located in one area. Different buildings and they call the campus we go. We bought that property with a hope that our satellite broadcasting business will expand to the point where we can build new production and transmission studios in facilities back there behind the present TV station. Hopefully that'll happen. We haven't gotten that large yet. But we're we're getting there on University right smack-dab in the middle of Minneapolis. And st. Paul that was done. Deliberately. Why did that were the Twin Cities meat and also we built it right there because he was the highest point in Twin City fire boat at that time. We knew that we had to have as much height as possible and it did the higher the ground the lower the tower had to be and you got some great publicity dilaudid stay in your next. Books a better around I guess we lost and let's see Martin. Go ahead Martin. We watch channel 5 quite a bit with the fact that the program sound is Army the volume of the commercials is so much louder than the program and my up my remote control by making their commercials louder than the program as it may seem in this age of Technology. No one has yet figured out how to balance. The level of the audio coming from commercial so that if you're watching for example Network program of the newest and then all of a sudden you jump to a different program source, which may be a commercial the commercial for some reason this louder. I don't know it bothers. Everybody always has hopefully someday, there'll be some kind of a technological answer. I got a letter from woman yesterday saying is there some Gizmo you could have been that would balance the sound level because she's got surround sound and One commercials come out and come on. I guess it really blows her out of her living room, but it's of continuing problem and and as strange as it may seem no one has yet been able to like that problem different program sources feeding into the same transmitter entry switch from programs for us a b and c and all of a sudden get to run audio levels. It's a real problem. No plot, though. Many bars are in are you always not delivered it is nothing that we as broadcasters can do about it. There's no FCC rule. We've tried to do what we can about it and you manually ride the game down and turn up and down. It's just Is almost impossible Richard your question, please yeah, how you doing stand-up? Nobody hears. You helped us with the troublemakers on the Northside. You know, who I owe her Richard. How are you doing? I sure do. Yeah good to hear your voice I had to call in actually. I just wanted to talk to you briefly. But what I was going to ask cuz I live out in the Ramsey now and I've got some back in the woods and I'm just getting ready to put something up on my roof and I just said I don't recall the pro ANC give me a call at the office which is exactly what to do. I stop and see if I buy a DSS system to buy a satellite. It's the best system free commercial that must be one of the great advantages of operating so long Loco menu really do get to meet a lot of people and I would think that would be very rewarding it's very rewarding and we are dedicated our family the Twin Cities we could live anywhere. We want to we love it here with love. Community we love of the people that live in Minnesota and we choose to be here and be part of this community and it is rewarding a couple of other questions before we run here and Fortune. We're just about out of time. Free time free air time for political candidates or hearing a lot about that lately. Is that a good idea? Well, it's not a good idea. My opinion to have the government mandated in the Congress of probably agrees with that and that most of the FCC does we do give free time to candidates for example than the last election cycle the we had to set of toriel candidates and they got free time. I think just about every night between 6:30 and 7 we do that as we think that if anybody tried to make us do it that would be taking of property and be unconstitutional quite a few people in Congress or spoken to that point thing as being unconstitutional, you know, what such a thing to know that none of the newspapers of the magazines give free time. There are the newspapers don't give free advertising for charity. We do with broadcasters give free time for everything and we promote things we just do it to be part of the humidity. No one else does that but there's always those people will say that then you should be doing more than anybody else. Well, we do do more than anybody else. We don't think the Congress should require us to give more than we already we already give a special rate to politicians, you know, and they're going to get that burger. If there are free time for politicians. They would still raised just as much money as a race today. They spend it someplace else or they spend more on television channel 5 has had a reputation for kind of a revolving door terms of its on air Talent Justified or not to see Brian Lambert in last Sunday in his article about our 50th Anniversary point out that that's really not true of kids to be any more than anybody else, you know, where it where we're in the television business were in the news business if football team has a wide receiver or hockey team has a person A person can't get touchdowns of the hockey player can score goals. They get a new hockey player in the business of where it is, you know your professional if a person was on the air can't get ratings and can attract an audience in a few other people you find trying to find somebody else. I can you put movie actors in movies that can sell tickets and you put anchor people on television and radio who can be popular attract audience though. It's a free enterprise Market Place really and truly we've had more people for a longer. Of time, where could I station than any other station in town? You have justifiably been credited with all kinds of in innovations that really took hold including the fact that you were out front on the TV business when people were scoffing Have there been any big flops along the way that you I think if you're not if you're not doing anything you will ever have a flat but if you're doing a lot of things are going to have some flops big guy year-long celebration now on the are yes and off they are supposed to absolutely and thank you so very much. Thanks for coming in tank regulations for the last 50 years has been operating kstp-tv in the Twin Cities. This area is first TV station for a long time the only TV station around here in many many other firsts as well. And as we noted at the beginning of the program one important last as well. KSTP is the last locally owned and operated TV station in the Twin Cities. This is midday coming through on Minnesota Public Radio. Will continue in just a moment. It's well worth the investment Minnesota Public Radio. Definitely stands out as a bright spot, or you can give news like this anywhere else. It's definitely worth. It stand for members are single largest source of Revenue at Minnesota Public Radio the bouncer books this year. We need to reach the 85,000 member Mark by June 30th. If you received a notice from his please mail it back today or call us at one 800-227-2811 right now and get yourself founded. Thanks. Hope you can stay tuned over the noon hour. Today. We're heading off to the National Press Club should be an interesting speech today Mae Jemison. She was the first African American female to a serve as us astronaut. She is and now out of the astronaut Corps, but very very busy talking among other things about the need and importance of for Science Education in the schools, and she'll be talking about that subject over the noon hour today speech at the national Press Club Mae Jemison former US astronaut time now for The Writer's Almanac