6 minutes now past 11 Good morning, and welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm very active glad you could join us. Each day, the news is filled with reports on crime. In fact there seem to be so many crime stories they come and go with really little or no attention, but occasionally a crime is committed that is so horrific. It demands attention last week investigators came across one such crime the murder of a 77 year-old woman in the Phillips neighborhood in South Minneapolis crime. We should note is no stranger to Philips three other people were killed Justin one weekend earlier this month, but the killing of Miss Annie as she was known as raised to a new level the level of outrage in that neighborhood angry residents along Park Avenue wants City officials to Rouse the drug users from their neighborhood residents believe it was drug users who took Miss Annie hostage last week and killed her. It's our we're going to be talking with us attorney David little hog about the situation in the Phillips neighborhood. What can and should be done to fight crime in that area. But first of all here is Minnesota Public Radio is Dan Olson with more on the story. The entrance in hallway of the building for an president IQs to live is filthy dirt and food wrappers litter the stained and frayed hallway carpet hastily repaired stairways take residence up to the third floor where the 77 year-old woman lived alone neighbor say they saw people arrived at her apartment door force their way in take her keys and say it's our apartment now resident didn't see present at four days. They assumed she had moved out when police arrived they found her dead or body jammed into a cardboard box. Her neighbor Tom fully remembers the old woman. He knew only as Miss Anne she was doing everything for everybody. If I like she needed a couple bucks. I'd give it to her if I needed a couple bucks you give it to me. Foley says the brown brick apartment building at 1818 Park Avenue isn't safe with my sister and I had to kick for crackheads on the back hallway. That's how mad I am about this right now neighbors say The Killers took and praznik hostage called their friends over to use crack in her apartment and then killed her the medical examiner confirms brezsny X death is a homicide hers was the fifth murder in 10 days in the neighborhood and surrounding areas residents along Park Avenue say prostitution drug dealing and violence among the street in the Phillips neighborhood are Rife many blame what they call the revolving door of Justice people arrested for crimes are back out in the street. Sometimes the same day and I've been County attorney. Mike Freeman says there's progress in fighting crime in the neighborhood. Have brought charges and onto drug dealers arising out of drug dealing in this immediate area and just closed down to other crack houses in this very neighborhood. So we've been pretty aggressive. 100 years ago Phillips was one of minneapolis's wealthiest neighborhoods a handful of the ornate Victorian Mansion built by rich people remain newcomers are trying to restore them some of the smaller home scattered among them are crumbling but many others are carefully maintained by long-term residents. A few people have moved into the neighborhood because it's close to jobs Downtown many residents are banking on Rising property values. If the crack houses are closed and dealers cleared from street corners some residents want the city to condemn and bulldoze the 1818 Park Avenue apartment building for Enterprise neck was killed three doors away at the Waldorf and Immaculate red brick apartment building with hand railings painted gold and red neon sign proclaiming affordable rent manager Dale klappenbach and former neighbor Lisa days. They shutting down the building at 1818 would be a big mistake. The crimes they didn't commit any other crime the people that are around the neighborhood is not the people in the building even that commits the crime. So they're being put on the street. They have to go to shelters. They have to find friends or family that will help them what what if we created we have created another bad situation for the tenants in the building and created a bad situation for the person that just bought it and is trying to make a difference by the end of May some neighbors are skeptical. They wanted the church next to 1818 to buy the building. The Inner City Church of Minneapolis was founded by Monica and Chris De Laurentiis and moved in 9 years ago Pastor. Chris says he and his wife are former drug addict. Their church was a crumbling graffiti-covered office building which has been completely rehabilitated by members. They now own for other buildings members of renovate. Turn live in Phillips residence point to the church as an example of what the neighborhood needs to survive. I took years for the Phillips neighborhood to deteriorate it'll take years for repair method. We're not telling everybody to go into leaving but we try to bring them into our church. We have the people in our church are like my wife and I nearly everyone have come from these streets from selling drugs or buying drugs or prostituting and they we can't I know that we are not going to save everybody or change everyone's life, but there's quite a few whose lights will be changed here. And and and that's what we're here for. The killing of an brezniak in the rampant crime along the Park Avenue stretch of the Phillips neighborhood discourages residents who've been trying for years to improve conditions are heartened by the tenacity of their neighbors, but many are cynical about the helpfulness of Outsiders including the people in the justice system, Dan, Olson, Minnesota Public Radio. Us attorney David little hug became a has become very active in trying to stop the killing in the crime the Phillips neighborhood matter fact that he received an award from the Phillips area neighborhood block clubs are the heart of Phillips award and he's joined us in the studio this morning to talk about the situation and take your questions. So we do invite you to give us a call or Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-242-2828. I guess this our us attorney David little hug and morning sir. Good morning, and have you become so involved in this normally Federal officials. Just don't get involved in what amounts to local crime? Well a couple of reasons first the need is there I've always believed that just because you're in the federal government doesn't mean you can't be connected to neighborhoods. And if there's a neighborhood that needs help in connection right now, it's Phillips and what I say today about Phillips also applies to a number of our other inner-city neighborhoods Central Powderhorn Jordan Hawthorne Road near North Minneapolis Summit University in Frogtown other neighborhoods in St. Paul there a lot of law-abiding people in those neighborhoods and they are entitled to the equal protection of the law. If you had five murders occur in 10 days has happened in Phillips in one of our suburbs Burnsville, Apple Valley New Hope Arden Hills, you'd have complete outrage and everyone from the governor on down would not rest until those murders were solved and the underlying narcotics problem game problem was solved as well and I just happen to think that the people of Phillips are entitled to the same degree of public protection of the law and that they have a fundamental right to Public Safety. Do you think that Local officials are doing all they can and should I wear are they sufficiently outraged? I think there's a lot more than that can be done and I'll let the Phillips neighbors Express their own outrage about how they've been dealt with by government. But I think there are a lot of things that can be done and I believe that the complaints of the neighbors that there is a catch and release policy is is not unfounded. This is a very Pro probation state that people have committed serious crimes or put on probation many times and then when they violate your probation is just rolled over into the next to fence and that's why in the Phillips neighborhood and then Hawthorne and other neighborhoods, you'll see people who are arrested for drug dealing who have had 20 30 40, even 50 prior arrests. We did a study of this phenomenon in the Hawthorne neighborhood and last summer took a look at about the last 50 drug arrest about half of the people arrested had five or more previous arrests in the average number of that group of rest was 13, and there were in fact people have been arrested 38 4043 * for drug dealing and other offences, we we've got a problem of chronic offenders in the City of Minneapolis that needs to be dealt with more aggressively. We also have and we have to be honest about the fact that the Twin Cities are very attractive to out-of-state drug dealers and a number of the defendants that we see in federal court. I have not been here a long time from Detroit to Chicago other cities and drug dealers are entrepreneurs like any other people they weigh the rewards versus the wrists and in the Twin Cities, the rewards are pretty big because a rock of crack cocaine goes for twenty bucks here that would go for $5 in Chicago and they assess the risks as being relatively slight that they can sell drugs that if they are caught the penalty will not be significant and that's why they're doing business here. We've got to deliver to the drug dealers a message that we are going to let business go on as it has how can this be that people get arrested? 10 20 30 times and are still out in the street. Well, it it first of all depends on whether you apply the state sentencing guidelines and unfortunately and in Hennepin County, sometimes the sentencing guidelines are not applied number to it depends how much you rely on probation. Minnesota is 49th in the nation in terms of the percentage of people that it locks up in prison. Only North Dakota locks up fewer people on a per-capita basis, but we are 5th in the nation in the percentage of people that we have on probation in Hennepin County alone there somewhere between I understand 20 to 25 thousand people on probation at any given time and that's it. That's a population of the city of the size of Hopkins. And listen. I know we don't want to lock up more people than we have to there's no question about that but the neighbors and Phillips are justifiably saying why is this knucklehead on my corner day after day and why after he get hurt gets arrested. Is he out in the street a few days later? That's a justifiable question. What isn't a theory that these people are there put on probation and so on so they can be rehabilitated. Well, I think that Rehabilitation certainly is a theory of the Minnesota correctional system. I think perhaps too much of a theory. Listen if you commit one crime or two or three, I think then then we hold out hope but if you've committed multiple crimes over and over again, then at some point the communities just entitled to throw up its hands and say we demand that something be done because we are our Criminal Justice System focuses planning on the defendant's I think it ought to be focusing more on the victims of crime and not just the victims who are killed or or beaten or assaulted but if you've ever lived next to a crack house, you know what I'm talking about their whole bunch of effects of a crack house that affect law-abiding citizens ranging from constant noise needles condoms crack pipes bullets found in the gutters multiple burglaries of homes and garages and in the simple fear that We'll have in the Phillips another inner-city neighborhoods that they're afraid to walk down the street and afraid they're going to be accosted by drug dealers. These are the kinds of things that are Criminal Justice System needs to take into account be on the drug dealers who are the band people who are the bad guys here than the judges for not locking. These people are well, I'm going to be pretty careful with what I say what I say because I think I have to work with all parts of the Criminal Justice System. I do have a radical idea though as far as dealing with drug dealers and that is to apply the state sentencing guidelines the first degree those charged with first-degree drug offenses face presumptive 84 months in prison those 2nd degree drug dealer Space 2 years in prison 48 months and I would like to see Hennepin County and some other counties apply those sentencing guidelines as they were written and as they were intended to be applied so that somebody who is in fact convicted of in a Narcotics offense if if the amount of drugs Criminal record warrants it does go to prison as it stands right now. If you sell drugs down in Red Wing Minnesota or over in Willmar, you're a lot more likely to go to prison then if you sell drugs in the Philips Central Powder Horn Hawthorne in Jordan neighborhoods in Minneapolis, and these are the neighborhoods where the law-abiding people are bearing the brunt of this kind of drug dealing what about drug users? Should we do something different with them? Yes, I think we should and we've got to pay a lot more attention to treatment by the way. I've been talking about incarceration last few minutes. That's a no way mutually exclusive with treatment. You can have treatment of drug dealers who happen to be addicted in prison, but for those who are buying and using very small amounts of drugs, I think we need to expand our treatment programs and that's one good thing Hennepin County has been doing the Hennepin County Drug Court has been supplying treatment to those who need it and that's where the thing needs to be expanded because although I've been talkin about incarceration the most effective and cost-effective way of reducing the amount of illegal drugs coming into the country is not locking people up, but it is reducing Demand by treatments you need to deal with the supply side and with the demand side as well. And in the last year, I've been trying to learn a lot more about drug treatment and how it can be integrated in the criminal justice system. Finally before we get to some callers hear most of the drug dealers that that are plaguing this neighborhood. Are they members of games? Is this a game Deal or are they just the Freelancers? Who see this is a way to make a buck. It's a mixed bag. There are several categories. One are the significant drug dealers from Chicago to Detroit and elsewhere they come in because they see substantial potential for profit here a number of them deal large amounts of drugs. We prosecute them every day. And we find by the way that fewer than half of them are addicted to the products that they themselves are selling their entrepreneurs. They're not using their own products. There is there in it to make money and Anna of course, some of them are smaller drug dealers as well. There are also what the community calls the Knuckleheads they are chronic offenders their cafeteria criminals that has used that refer to the fact that commit whatever crime is is available in drug dealing is certainly one of those crimes and those are the people you see arrested 20. 340 * and the police Express a great deal of frustration about them then another category are addicts who in order to maintain their habits all very small quantities of drugs. He's usually 5th degree drug offenses. And those are the ones that I think a commendably are being dealt with by treatment, but at some point if the treatment fails they got Eva Toppers bigger stick us attorney David little hug is our guest this hour and we're talking about two crime specifically the crime problem that continues to plague the Phillips neighborhood in South Minneapolis. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 Thousand Oaks. I'd the Twin Cities one. 800-242-2828 Jim go ahead place is my question for you is that since the constitutional rights is our young people are being violated by being exposed to this. How do we get the Politicians in the judges that are involved to start having some of the compassion that Minnesota has noted for and start dealing with this as a civil rights issue so that our guarantee of equal protection of the laws protected not equal policing the Constitution doesn't guarantee equal police. If it does guarantee equal protection under the law in the constitution does guarantee that and I agree with you that are Minnesota reputation for compassion should be focused on the victims of crimes are particularly since Minnesota G is changing now, we have plenty of homegrown crap. We've got to deal with those who are attracted by the high drug prices in the relatively minimal consequences in the criminal justice system. Is this a full-fledged constitutional issue? Well, our constitution does guarantee equal protection of the law, but traditionally when a constitutional right has been violated then a court takes over the administrative system or the bureaucracy that is supposed to enforce the law II don't It would be a good thing for court system to be running the police department for the prosecutor's office in Hennepin County. So I'm not sure that there's a lawsuit here but I think the fundamental constitutional value needs to be implemented which is it doesn't make any difference. If you're low income doesn't make any difference if your senior citizen or your renter, you're entitled to Public Safety and you're just as much entitled to that on the corner of Franklin and Park Avenue as you are on Vernon Avenue in Edina again getting back to a kind of a basic question here. Why isn't a why isn't the the situation getting the attention of the local officials? Is it because these people are mostly poor people what's going on in our society? I think low income people and renters don't have the same kind of power as those of upper-income who own their homes. I believe there's also an attitude in the part of those in power that crime has always been higher. Minneapolis weather some degree of increased crime that we can tolerate. Let's look at this historically back in 1950 Minneapolis had 18% of the state's population and 36% of the state's violent crime and you can say while we've always known it's a little bit more dangerous to live in Minneapolis will now Minneapolis has only 8% of the state's population in about 43% of the state's violent crime. So as Minnesota has grown as the suburbs have expanded people are living in the exurbs a crime has become more concentrated. And so if we look at this over a 50 year. You can you can see that we've got a real problem in Minneapolis Steve your next card, please and please tell me it isn't so but did I hear you say earlier that code for this crime occurred in Apple Valley or Burnsville such-and-such a suburb. Or words to that effect. I think it I think it would get a lot more attention from public officials. You would have close to 100 Corporation percent cooperation from the from the residence Marriott. You don't get that in the inner city that many people in the inner city recording or what am I here on business or want to do nothing with the point? Is that true or not? I think we've got a real problem in that regard. I think you are. And also not a requirement of fiber is called come on folks. We all know that they were stolen car. Is there a drug dealing with make the state ref to be just surprises me? Well, I hope I didn't choose the wrong suburb sir. And I'm not telling you that every crime in a suburb is salt. I was making a point about the allocation of of power in our society. And you do have a point with respect to cooperation. Yes. There are people in the inner city who don't want to cooperate mainly because of fear their tremendous number of law-abiding residents in these neighborhoods that that I have mentioned. But when when you believe that your own life is at stake from the person living next door, if you report that person's activities to the police. Yeah, that's a real tough choice to make and one of the great challenges of law enforcement is to encourage people to cooperate with the police and I certainly didn't mean to insult any residents of the suburbs in I think that I think they pay a tremendous amount of attention to crime and to Neighborhood involvement. And at the same time. I don't think it's fair to insult the residents who live in the Phillips neighborhood and say to them. Well, we'd have a lot lower crime. If you just do more of your work, you know that murder at 1818 Park Avenue. There is the most active block club that I have ever seen anywhere in the state of Minnesota. They are doing everything right they are talking to public officials their reporting crimes. They're probably the best reporters that I've ever seen and yet they are plagued by that high crime rate and we shouldn't be insulting them either. One thing. I think that to Steve was alluding to though. He didn't specifically say it was at your this off and gets portrayed as a black and white issue that the black residents simply don't trust that predominately white police department. And that's an issue. We should we should talk about this is not a racial issue victims of crime are all across the spectrum of race and gender Sexual orientation it is I think more a matter of income then it is a matter of race. And for example of the meeting that was held in the memorial service on Thursday night in in honor of Ms. Annie who was who was killed there were people from all races at that meeting and some of the most powerful statements were made by people of color. And I think it's a matter of equal protection of the law that freak sample in the Phillips neighborhood, which has the largest urban Indian population in the country that every resident of the Phillips neighborhood is entitled to Public Safety are our members of minority groups. Are they working actively with the police as well? Yes, all the progress needs to be made there certainly needs to be improved improved communication between members of the Minneapolis Police Department and people of color in there is a history to that and our office is working very hard to help that for example a year ago. We secured a grant for the Minneapolis Police Department. A couple hundred thousand dollars to put every Minneapolis Police Officer officer through the best training in the nation on use of force because if there is a misuse of force or if there are racist comments are racist attitudes from law enforcers that is very much taken to Heart by the community and it's substantially increases the problems that law enforcement has in solving crimes Sean your next go ahead place. I heard any representative of the libertarian political parties say that if narcotics were legalized the way liquor is that all of these problems that we have with it would disappear because just like liquor you would be able to go into like Walgreens or someplace like that and buy it and I would just like to know what your guests thinks of that idea. I'll hang up and listen to you stand the Lancer walk into Walgreens and buy Crack by methamphetamine by heroin. Is that was that the argument Advocating legalizing narcotics. One thing that I always find interesting about those were Advocate advocating legalizing narcotics is they don't want to talk specifically about what they want to legalize. Listen. This is not 1960s weed that we're talking about here. We're talking about some of the most powerful drugs and poisons known to human beings powder and crack cocaine methamphetamine, which by the way, is it coming thing? I think your head was on your show a couple of years ago talking about that and we are dried it hardly anything about that and now the Drug Enforcement Administration spend about 40% of its time on methamphetamine, which is a very powerful is a synthetic drug. I think there is a practical Dimension to this. I don't think it is practical to legalize those particular drugs and I think there's a moral Dimension to it as well that this is fundamentally poison and that those were selling the poison should be prosecuted in and put away I can think of some other crimes that I'm the moral scale probably rank less than that. We're talking to shower with us attorney David. Hog who has been very very active in terms of trying to come to grips with the crime rate in the Phillips neighborhood in South Minneapolis. Matter fact, he was given an award by The Neighborhood block groups of terms of his involvement last week another horrific crime in that area and neighbors are outraged that this would be a great opportunity today to talk a little bit more about specifically what's happening. What can be done to get that situation under control. If you'd like to join our conversation. Give us a call Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828 by the way a couple of reminders first of all over the noon hour today. We're going to hear from Governor ardy Carlson over the weekend the governor gave a speech at a meeting of journalists talking about what he sees as the need for journalism to start to a journalist rather to start their policing their own ranks and develop a code of conduct. The set of standards and do away among other things with the kind of a sensationalist investigative reports that you here. So often see so often during sweeps week, when hear from the governor over the noon hour today on that subject. Also, if you have comments or suggestions about the programming a Minnesota Public Radio, bring them to our public comment meeting Tuesday night numbers of the NPR programming staff will be on hand to listen and respond to your concerns. That meeting is at 7 Tuesday evening at the Merriam Park Branch library on the corner of Fairview and Marshall in St. Paul. Major funding for Minnesota public radio's documentary fund is provided by Phyllis Taylor in memory of Walter stremmel. Weather Service says, we can look for a partly cloudy Sky across Northern Minnesota through the afternoon cloudy in the South with some scattered showers and thundershowers highest today mid-50s to the low 60s the Twin City forecast calls for a cloudy sky this afternoon with some scattered showers may be a thunderstorm as well with a high reaching the upper 50s right now in the Twin Cities. We have a partly cloudy Sky 52° elsewhere around the area Duluth sunny in 55 Houlton fair in 57th. St. Cloud signing in 56 Rochester partly cloudy 51 Fargo with a sunny Sky 55 Sioux Falls, sunny and 52 degrees. We are talking this hour about. Crime in the Phillips neighborhood of South Minneapolis Our Guest is u.s. Attorney David little hug. And if you'd like to join our conversation again, give us a call or Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand. I'll try the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at 1 800-242-2828 Charles Disney is with the Minneapolis property rights action committee. That's a group of Minneapolis landlords have been very active in trying to clean up the Phillips neighborhood. The committee has a press conference scheduled for this afternoon. My name is Disney satisfied with the response that you've received from local officials to the crime problem in the Phillips area of the tractors, which I invited you on cheated talked with you about last week to show that we can't get the criminals off the streets and if we can't get the criminals off the streets law enforcement the judicial system. At work, it's we certainly can't keep about of the billets and we can't keep good tenants and he's tougher neighborhoods. What would you like to see City officials do specifically asked to provide more leadership David Lily house talking about a Deborah Besar. I think we need to change the system. That isn't working. I'd like to see that but two more undercover stings, you can't drive up to the drug dealers and prostitutes with the squad cars bars with the gumballs twirly had expected to arrest. So I think we need more cops undercover Katie the bad guys off the streets if a guy's arrested 40 50 times at some point, we've got to take these people off the streets or has to be accountability builds it to the system can't keep on putting to buy probation over and over again. You think too much emphasis has been put on shutting down the buildings where a lot of crimes have been committed. Well, we've the city strategy is to criminalize the Billy's life shift to the absentee landlords. So it's your the bricks-and-mortar I doing the crimes that have survived most of them for 80-90 years, they'll usually survive and could be maintained if we barely had safestreets. Do you think know that there are some absentee landlords who should be more active in and trying to keep out the bad guys. Do you expect him to the death of the system won't work. Do you expect him to carry mace and Mase the bad guys, we've got landlords. Literally Carey baseball bats, you know, and that's dry people out of there. Are there always it out of their buildings are out for the front or back. We've got one landlord. That's that use more bass to clear. His sidewalks outside is Bill. It is a bead jewelry store. Google is talking about 30 people out that are at Tipitina's good tennis or his prospects that the landlords are being expected to do police work cuz they're not trade, you know what to do or they don't have the guts Badgers. If you want to give us the authority to do it that you know that we need to change the entire system because it isn't working with what we've got now. Thanks, sir. Appreciate your joining us. Thank you Charles Disney who is the Minneapolis property rights action committee gave a little hug. Do you think that too much Focus has been placed in Minneapolis on shutting down these buildings. So rather than truly focusing on the bad people who have to live in some of these buildings and I disagree a little bit on this. I think that there are some landlords were so neglectful of their buildings and allow them as a breeding place for Crime that the the buildings should be shut down, but let's understand that every time that happens. It comes at a cost the amount of low income housing in Minneapolis. St. Paul is is far below the demand low rent low rent Lord lower price rent housing and every time we shut down one of these buildings were removing an apartment building from the housing stock and there are people are affected. You heard the the comments in the report earlier people are going to be evicted from 1818 park now certainly there are some law-abiding people in that building and it's going to cause tremendous inconvenience. It is simple to say that criminals commit crimes not buildings, but that is the truth. Every time you shut down a building. Also you have possible dislocation effects for the drug dealers will move to three blocks away and start serving the same clientele. Just take a couple days for word to get around that Joe or John is selling at2020 Park rather than 18 18 Park. And so I think that can only be one piece of a much larger law enforcement strategy. I would rather focus on the people that are committing the crimes and give them the message in no uncertain terms that prison. Time can result that if they violate the terms of their probation, we're going to be all over them going to be checking on the making home visits and if they violate the terms are going to go back and back to prison. I'd rather have a focus on some of the Suburban Knights who are coming into Minneapolis to buy drugs in deference were earlier Colorado. I do want to say that I don't think most most people use drugs but there certainly is some aspect to the Minneapolis drug Market that it's not all residents of Minneapolis that are buying the drugs in the same way that certainly it's not all residents Minneapolis patronizing prostitutes on Lake Street. And so there has to be a Suburban focus and a warning to people who don't live in Minneapolis. This is not the place you come out to buy your drugs there needs to be a focus on the areas around schools and parks and community centers. There are special federal and state statutes that increase the penalties for dealing drugs near kids and again a difference to an earlier collar. I don't think there's anyone who argues that kids show. Be sold meth powder crack cocaine heroin or have to be around when it is being sold. So I think there's a lot of other things that we can do besides shutting down buildings Charles Disney said if he'd like to see more undercover operations, would that significantly help it it seems like a lot of people are being arrested but then they just get back on the street. Anyway, will it help gets help to New York City, but that's been part of a comprehensive plan where you you put police officers take them out of their uniforms put them in the guise of drug dealers. And then your SM of the buyers word gets around pretty quickly that that's what's happening and it and it is helpful. But of course, it's it's not just the arrest what everybody needs to understand is this is a criminal justice system and it includes investigation. It includes arrest prosecution sentencing probation. And then how you follow up on violations of probation. You just can't take one piece of the system and chop it off and say what we're going to solve the problem by more arrests. We are getting more rest Inn in Minneapolis. County Attorney Freeman points that out. I think the arrest her up somewhere around 50% compared to last year. It's what happens to people after they get arrested. You're a good dfl or is this in part a problem with the Liberals used to be involved in politics, but when I raise my right hand and swear to be us attorney, I'm not involved in politics. Former College in the den to squishy on crime have they been to weak-kneed about this? Let me not put it in terms of of party but rather in terms of ideology for too long in our state and elsewhere. We have had the problem either that you are a tough on crime and you don't care much about crime prevention or you care a lot about crime prevention. You don't care much about law enforcement. I believe Minnesota is experienced in the last 10 years including with how we've dealt with gangs has shown that either so that the both sides are intellectually bankrupt that we need to care about law enforcement and can't send the message around the country that Minnesota's a pro probation state but that is no excuse for not dealing with the root causes of crime including for example of providing drug treatment making that available or doing as a number of our corporations and and public foundations are now doing which is focusing on jobs and investment in education. Mission in these neighborhoods. Let me give you a good example Honeywell Corporation. They have employees who are afraid to come to work. Their headquarters is in the Phillips neighborhood that come in the weekend and find holes in the windows. And what was his reaction? It wasn't well, we're going to pack up and move to North Carolina or we're going to move to Mexico or wherever where we have some better guarantee of Public Safety Not that I'm suggesting that Mexico is safer. But their reaction was let's invest in the neighborhood and try to turn things around they've been leaders in this initiative called Minnesota Hills where you get a public-private partnership to improve Public Safety Allina is another corporate example, they they say we support stronger law enforcement. We also see violence as a public health problem, and we know that we have to deal with through cramp with whether to crime prevention programs. So they're creating good paying jobs in the Phillips neighborhoods and a lot of our foundation's the Minneapolis Foundation business associations, and others are doing the same thing. I understand again that this is a law enforcement and Criminal Justice System. It's not the kind of thing where you can say, I've got a silver bullet to deal with the problem. It has to be dealt with across-the-board. Rob your question play the first one just like make a comment but I think a lot of the crime issues the blame is being misplaced on City Hall and I think one of the things that's interesting is the number of aggravated assaults Matt Phillips neighborhood has dropped almost in half in two years and there was aware of the crime that happened last year, but when people are talking about increase law enforcement, the number of Narcotics arrests has gone from 88, excuse me, 49 two years ago to 271 this year. So it's increased by a factor of 5 times as many narcotics arrest happening in the neighborhood and I think the problem I'm at work the Minneapolis Police Department and I think one of the problems that we see is with account. Response to crime and and the people are not county is not taking their responsibilities. Seriously, if we arrest somebody we have them in the back of our squad cars for up to an hour and a half to two hours waiting to get into the jail or judge. Could Point are Judges tell us that they will not send people to crimes because there is no room in the workhouse and the county is totally abdicated their responsibility for providing Social Services to Chronic inebriate. So that a lot of our time is spent ferrying people were intoxicated from one detox facility to another rather than being able to get out there and doing police work and dealing with people who are you know, actually committing crimes rather than just wandering around drunk. So not City officials so much as the county officials The County Commissioners who have been talking about building a jail facility for 15 years and we don't hear any discussion about that and and adequately funding are jail and courts so that they can deal with a crime issues with the police are out there making arrests. We've doubled the number of arrests we've made in the last year so miserable had some excellent points made by the officer one thing that's what it's worth keeping in mind is not only is this a criminal justice system, but that it is very easy for one component of the system to point fingers at another component of the system and I acknowledge that all parts of the system need to improve and we've been trying to do that in the US attorney's office pretrial probation the federal justice system as well. And and and what the officer says about the the county issues are true. There is no reason why I should have taken so long to start building a new Hennepin County Jail and then even when there was agreement that a jail should be built there was a lot Nickel-and-diming is to how many beds at should have and that's why you lead we've we've had some fairly drastic proposals including from Sheriff Pat McGowan, which is let's take the old Minneapolis Armory and put in some trailers and create a de facto jail. This is a problem that was not dealt with properly wrap for a long time. But there's there's no reason for anybody to be defensive about it things like the murders that have occurred in the Phillips neighborhood should Inspire us to to Greater action with all parts of the system pulling together including through the Minnesota heels process. Is there enough jail or prison space available right now so that these people could get sent off to the hoosegow at least for a while or is there a true shortage of prism space? Well by by the Numbers, we've got a shortage of prison space compared to the rest of the country the are the percentage of people that we incarcerate is very low compared to the national average as I sit here. Do I know exactly how many beds are available in Stillwater Oak Park Heights in St. Cloud. I know I'd What I do know that there's an acute problem in the Hennepin County Jail and I also know that we we have a long-term problem in the Minnesota correctional system, which is why Rush City is being built and and why we should be building more bootcamps than the couple hundred beds that we have available. And are you your next go ahead place last nine years and I've seen it gone downhill drastically over the last year-and-a-half. My question to you is what has the major employers been doing to help this neighborhood. And as I said, I've been working with a line of the last 10 years and I've never heard or seen any memo to the fact can we help build neighborhood and I'll hang up and listen to your comments. Thank you in the last couple of years. Your employer has been doing a superb job in terms of helping the the neighborhood and when we're talking about a line over time about Abbott Northwestern and children's And some of the clinics are there in the Phillips neighborhood a line has been one of the most active members of Minnesota heels. I had a supported and financed stronger law enforcement and it has announced the creation of some new good jobs in the Phillips neighborhood and in recognition of those efforts and the efforts of other participants in Minnesota Hills attorney general Reno visited Abbott Northwestern Hospital in early, January and said, this is the kind of partnership That You Don't See elsewhere in the country where you're not only a public agencies but nonprofit foundations and private corporations, very heavily involved. So if you work for a line, I think I think you should be proud of their efforts John your question, please appreciate spending so much time on this issue and caring about this issue so much in the resident of Minneapolis. This is important to me and I think it should be important to everyone in the state. The other comment is I'm absolutely perplexed that either mirror Belton or other members of the city council or parts of the Minneapolis, you know delegation to the legislature are not getting together and looking towards the state for a Statewide solution. We're having a tremendous amount of energy being put into a tobacco trial right now, which certainly has merits we've had several special sessions in the last year some of those had some Merit but it seems that you know, this is an issue that everyone across the state could agree that there are solutions it very clear cut with a Solutions are and that what it lacks is the political will so my question is why isn't that happening on a Minneapolis level? And then my final question is will mr. Little Hawk lead this effort and perhaps Garner a Statewide approach to this problem. Well, you're right. We need to Statewide approach and lest anyone misinterpret my remarks about the suburbs earlier that the suburbs have a very great interest in law enforcement in Minneapolis. And st. Paul because of the problems of drug dealing and gangs are not dealt with their then you'll see a commensurate increase in crime. I think for example Brooklyn Center in Robbinsdale. I have seen that and this is also an issue that cities in Greater Minnesota should be interested about because there are gangs for example in Worthington Rochester Wilmer Marshall and other cities and they are looking to Minneapolis to deal with its game problems and then transfer that experience so that they can deal effectively as well. I'm not suggesting they don't have creative an effect of law enforcement but this is not a one or two City issue. Now as far as what's happening happening in Minneapolis notwithstanding the murders that occurred in the last couple of weeks. I see some real encouraging science as the officer pointed out. Narcotics arrest her up. Although I have some problems with particular facets of Hennepin County Drug Court of the focus on treatment is a very good one. There is a new Minnesota criminal gang strike force that was created by the legislature about a year ago. It's up and running and putting together some good cases that we we hope to prosecute and then the Minneapolis Police Department has been a very active participant in the Minnesota Kiehl's effort and the reduction in gang homicides last summer I believe is doing substantial part to the the Minneapolis gang unit getting in the face of the gangsters and telling them that if they commit crimes they're going to be all over them and that retaliation will not be allowed and I believe that was that was a reason why the number of murders in Minneapolis dropped 30% last year now, unfortunately, as of this point, we're somewhat I had of last year and I believe that's due in part to what attorney general Reno predicted when she was here in January. She said you're you're putting together a structure to deal with the games pretty Effectively, but you can't limit that structure to those who are members of identifiable gangs that the freelance drug dealers. The dealer to come in small groups from out-of-state have a significant impact on Minneapolis and st. Paul and you got a deal with them to because the violence follows them if such a special session were called. What could we expect or what? What would be a useful thing for the legislature to do that would significantly affect this problem. Well, I am not in position that I can the federal government to be advising anyone to call special sessions by the way special session seem to be a lot less special these days and then they used to by its I will say that if you take a look at the Minneapolis Star Tribune from yesterday in the editorial section, you'll see about a 3/4 page op-ed piece that I put together making a number of recommendation some of which that we have covered today and on that same page, you'll see an op-ed piece by Michael bonsignori the chairman of Honeywell. Who is also very concerned about the recent violence in the neighborhood in the effect that has on his company? And he makes a number of recommendations as well. If you want to spend a little bit more than 5 minutes. That would be some good reading people who are upset about this issue be the Phillips neighborhood residents or other people what to do as a practical matter. What should they be doing now? Is there somebody they should call and yell at her what happened here as a practical matter. Number one piece of advice is formed black clubs in become very active become active a neighborhood watch in reporting crimes and not being intimidated by the gangsters and drug dealers because every time a crime is committed and it's not reported and that's a vital piece of the puzzle that may be missing and solving other crimes number to I think taking some of the things that we talked about today in terms of Minnesota being a pro probation state where probation isn't revoked and making those feelings known to legislators to City and County council members. Are the police need the support in that regard as well? I'm not saying every police officer is perfect. But they go through a tremendous amount of frustration. I seen people that they have arrested released in committing more crime. So it's a cliche but support your local police as well. Thank you very much for coming in today. Appreciate it us attorney David little hug joining us. So this first hour of our midday program to talk about the situation in the Phillips neighborhood in South Minneapolis, really a situation that extends beyond that specific neighborhood. We will continue in just a moment. I'm Ray Suarez President Clinton isn't chili this weekend with other North and South American leaders at the second Summit of the American democracy education in the environment are all on the agenda building on talks held at the first summit three and a half years ago, but trade is the big issue both among Latin countries end with the US join us for a son Thiago Summit wrap up on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. Talk of the Nation begins at 1 here on Minnesota Public Radio over the noon hour will hear from Governor ardy Carlson on the news media right now. It's time for Garrison Keillor.