Thank you, brother six minutes now past 11. Good morning. Welcome to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio on Gary. I can glad you could join us many Minnesota high school graduates may be facing a little more scrutiny when they try to get a job this summer members of the Minnesota Business Partnership, which represents some of the state's largest businesses say they plan to take a closer. Look at high school transcripts to try to determine just what those graduates actually learn while they were in high school. IBM already uses such a system in hiring its entry-level workers and the partnership says more companies should follow suit Business Partnership says businesses should hire teens who take a tougher courses and pay better students more money. Partnership also have some other ideas on how to encourage educational Improvement says employer should encourage their employees to get more involved in their children's children children's education and business who should work more closely with the schools. So the schools can raise their standards and help the schools actually meet those higher standards yesterday Governor ardy Carlson told business Executives that they have to get involved in education reform if they want to continue to prosper in Minnesota Carlson was the keynote speaker at a conference on business and education. He's generally received good reviews for business for his education policies. Especially is emphasis on expanding tax credits and deductions for low-income families. So students can more easily attend private schools and his emphasis on requiring students to pass Statewide tests. They admit they were going to hear what the governor had to say to those business Executives. And then we're going to get some reaction to his comments. The governor says people concerned about Need to focus on the American dream what it is and how we can make sure all minnesotans have a chance to achieve it. We're going through a. Of time by every economic index America is stronger than it ever has been doing a lifetime. A sustained. Of economic growth sharp Rises and personal income the market said to have done extraordinarily well to those people who have invested we have penetrated with some measurable success the world markets and basically everything is coming up roses. But yet on the social side, we begin to see problems growing at a surprisingly rapid rate until all of us regardless of where we are. We all stand back a little bit puzzled. A fairly sharp increase in the rate of violence in America sharp increase in the degree of violence particularly in terms of youthful offenders. Concerns about educational outcomes that we had ignored over the past decades now that there's a focus on outcomes. We begin to understand the enormity of the problems in education, but was the most stunning of all is that an index is relative to cynicism. Is at an all-time high? So you would think that they would be a correlation. Between economic satisfaction and a degree of confidence. If you will in the institutions that tend to govern is not just government but all of the institutions But the truth is as a society we've engaged and so much internal pounding. That it's no surprise that the public is a whole begins to sincerely believe that there is something fundamentally wrong. And what is fundamentally wrong? Is that each and every one of us without exception are all engaged in short-term Behavior. We're guilty of greed were those of us in public office clearly on the borderline of being Criminal. And you can't trust anybody be at the Catholic priest. Be at the school teacher be if the business leader or beat your local legislator. Everybody is in it for themselves. and if we continue that pounding we're going to ultimately start to destroy the very fabric of a Democratic Society. And the reason I like us to reconnect with the American dream is because the immigrants really defined it Force they came to this country sensing what we were about. We were about first of all about opportunity. What is it about America? That was so special from where they came my parents came from Sweden. But they sensed that there was quote opportunity in America. They sensed that if they worked hard regardless of what type of economic satisfaction they enjoy their children will have an opportunity to succeed. And that's how we defined that drink. It was a given that each generation would give to their children greater opportunities for Success than they themselves and joy now pulls are beginning to tell us that that belief is diminution. That there is a certain amount of pessimism about the future. And we as leaders in our society would be in terms of elected office or in business or any other Endeavor particular education all of us have an obligation to rebuild the trust relationship. On Saturday, I'll be talkin to the journalist of Minnesota largely about the role. They can play in rebuilding and toning down if you will some of the excesses in terms of developing scandals. And allowing us to begin to pass laws that literally criminalize everything. Those of us in elected office if we have a cup of coffee with the wrong person. We violated a law that you have to be very careful. Now who you associate with who you seen with who you talk with and what you say and to whom we have to be very careful about that. And what is it that we're going to do to re-establish butt off to be a larger part of our life and that is a personal. an Institutional sense of ethics so that the leadership of America automatically knows the right from wrong and each child and each adult participating in any institution automatically knows the guidelines for right and wrong so that we don't have to pass laws against it. Let me just digress for one swift moment. What is the one episode that perhaps has bothered me more than any other? and that was a part of the Clinton administration of the president and his wife sitting down discussing how they could rent out space in the White House in order to get donations for the party. What bothers him is not just that act but the lack of outrage on the part of the American people the defense was so is it against the law? Try to think back about how all of our presidents with a Democrat or Republican approached the White House with a tremendous sense of or and felt a personal obligation to execute the dignity that that office and that occupancy required. Can you honestly and truly see a Harry Truman sitting down with best and same best? What do you say we pedal the blue room tonight and hustle a few bucks. But the truth is we've accepted. Less and less of character from our leadership then we ought to sometimes we defended on the grounds of partisanship. Sometimes we defend it for fear that the same standards apply to our own institutions. And then what message do we convey to work children? This morning. We received the report in American television just in one year in Primetime as increase the amount of violence. from 50% to now 75% the leadership of all those institutions. I'm sure depends on the grounds while that's where the money is we make money. That's what the people want and we're losing sight of the responsibilities that we have toward everyone. With every right that we enjoy goes an equal and I would argue an even greater sense of responsibility and that responsibility has to be defined in the context of the American dream. Where is it which is dearest to my heart. Is really that of Education. Why because in America we were the first nation to hold out to our children that regardless of who you are regardless of your economic or social station in life. You had access. Equal access educational opportunities. We did not hold out guarantees of Health. We did not hold out guarantees of welfare. We did not hold out guarantees of land or anything else, but we did hold out guarantees of Education. We were different. We were not a society that told kids at age six or an age 12 that you were going to go into that line of work and you would be prohibited from this Pursuit. We were the ones who sincerely believed and committed ourselves to some sense of equal opportunity for all children for chickley in the area of Education. And we know from study after study. And if there's anything that earmarks and individual for success or failure, it is education. And so it's only fitting. That business begin to focus and make education is Paramount issue. First of all, you have expressed considerable dissatisfaction. With the products that we know turn out. 43% of the businesses in Minnesota are dissatisfied. With the capacity in the performance level of the average high school graduate not talking about the Dropout with talking about the person who graduates. To you also have expressed a concern about Workforce Development issues. Where do we go? To be able to grow our company and be able to develop the workforce that's necessary to allow that expansion. Well with low unemployment it stands to reason there's only one place left. And that is to that pool of talent that is now unemployed or underemployed. The only other option is to go elsewhere. And it's clearly not in our best interest to have you take your jobs either to another state and have a region or another Nation. It so it's imperative for us has to stay to create a strategy that allows you to get the kinds of products that you need, but we can only do that when you willingly participate and form a partnership with us. I would argue. Is education in America today? It's clearly our number one problem in every single respect. and if we don't change And change it. Radically we're going to continue to pay the price of all the outcomes. It's very odd about so much of our political expenditure and political debate is that we don't hesitate to fund outcomes. We don't hesitate to build prisons. We don't hesitate to engage and remedial education. We just assume we should do it. When an adolescent to Minnesota gets into trouble in Hennepin County where we are today it cost Hennepin County in the taxpayers of this state approximately $40,000 a year to how is that individual? It cost us somewhere around 30,000 to house an individual in a state penitentiary. For a while. We were on target to build a new prison every 3 years. I'm stands to reason if you're in the business of building prisons and building institutions. You're not going to be in the business of funding a lot of positive endeavors. And you won't have to worry about arguing about where the Surplus is going to because there will be no Surplus and you won't have to worry about productivity because you can assume it's in a state of decline. So it's clearly in our best interest to begin to recognize what our problems are. And what is it that we're willing to do whenever you talk about education the critics always like to Define your comments. I'm not against public education. I very much want public education to succeed. But I do not sincerely believe that public education can succeed unless it's subject itself to the market forces of competition philosophically what I find curious about our system is that we love choice and competition in virtually every single aspect of our life except in play through 12. I'm programs of Early Childhood learning of daycare and all the provisions that we make. for children prior to kindergarten The stipulation always was Family Choice. Take the child to whatever daycare provider you want and the competition would drive quality. We accept the notion of the market. Likewise in higher education we do precisely the same thing the biggest voucher bill ever designed in the history. Of this planet was the GI Bill. Overnight it revolutionized higher education. Change the campuses of our private colleges and universities as it did the public. But what it really did was bring onto our campuses hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people. Who prior the war would have been denied access to higher education? And that drove our economic engine and to a large extent it is sister this day and driving our economic engine. imagine what we would be like if we still had the same attitude towards higher education today as we did in 1942. We would only have an aristocracy. Able to manage America's business system and I dare say a lot of you in this room would be here today. The truth is that opening up allowed for the lower income for the moderate income for the middle income in the upper middle-income to have access to higher education. And it changed both systems for the better. your hard put today to find a single College present at the end of a public or private university that will say he does not enjoy and very much wants to be protective of the competition between the that competition allows them to drive a higher quality product to their own Institution. Stands to reason in the Big Ten of Michigan. Does this swimming wear wise at the University of Minnesota then we want to make sure we either do the same thing or prayerfully we do it better. Well, that's what competition is about what also stands to reason if we turn K through 12. Over to one provider in this case the teachers union and we say it's all yours. We ought not to be surprised that we get the results that you would normally expect from one of Monopoly. Suppose we as a nation. When we were faced with European and Asian competition and automating suppose we had taken the advice of some of the people wanted to erect Harris. I said, okay will erectile so we won't have competition from abroad and will turn the whole thing over the UAW. Imagine the pickle we would be in today. We being an economically mess. And the word quality and automobile would never ever be equated. So we shouldn't be surprised at the kinds of results that were getting the real question is what kind of a system ought we to device? We went through some of our battles here in Minnesota. And yes, they are to some extent at least the national motto. But it was really a very modest start. It was a recognition of the obvious. Beer mind when we started the journey. Every Governor every legislature always wants to Pat itself on the back and say we are the education legislature or where the education governor. And what we did basically was design a system that only tested those kids going to college. What we had it knocked Minnesota did well on the ACT in the SATs. The kids were going to college they were hiding motivated good family structures behind them. And it's no great surprise that we had a high completion rate. Do we have a high percentage of our students going on into higher education always in the top three or four states and roll was in the top three or four relatives SAT and ACT results. So we sat back and said boy, isn't this wonderful. We even had a law that forbids Statewide testing. Isn't that odd if we were so confident in ourselves? Why would why do we have such a law you would think that if we had the best system in America one of the three or four best systems in America, we would encourage testing we would encourage the revealing of test scores and allow parents and school districts to boast about high how high those test scores were. Well, we went out we hired a firm. To do some sample testing and how well we did and the results were stunning roughly speaking of third of our kids. Phil in math and reading at the 8th grade level 1/3 those numbers escalated sharply when I got to Minneapolis and st. Paul. I think roughly 59% sales in both those cities. And then the Dropout rates half the kids coming into Minneapolis and st. Paul school systems never finish. National test indicate that some 14 million hit 14 million kit feeling in the schools today. And we call it slipping through the cracks. 14 million, don't slip through a crack. That's a gaping vast hole. Those kids do not disappear those kids will reappear and they reappear on the welfare rolls and the unemployed rolls and may appear somewhere in the area of crime, but they will reappear and more often than not they will reappear at a cost to us a significant cost to us. Now we've got to decide what kind of a system do we want? That we think would allow more of these children to succeed. First of all, we need a system that measures output instead of inputs. When we turned over America's education to the teachers union, they designed a system that measure them puts. How much do you spend per pupil that district is spending more than we are there for the problem is we got to get more money. or the newness of our buildings How many kids in a classroom all sorts of input methods? Designed to do what to raise the cost. Where was the focus on the outputs? The answer was let's not focus on the outputs because Frankie that could be embarrassing. I had three of the teachers union in my office telling me with a straight face that they were petrified. That was Statewide testing parents would make comparisons. I said now you get the message You Bet Your Life they will that's what competition is about when you go out and buy a car you compare you compare cost you compare the quality. You can pair with personal needs you at why should you have greater rights in purchasing a car then you do in terms of purchasing a Educational Service for your kids. Answers, of course, you shouldn't so the kind of system that we wanted was his system that would strengthen both. And Empower parents to have choices. What would those choices be one use the tax code used it as a vehicle to allow more money to flow back to the family. So those families could have some choices. Could we flow enough money back? So they go to break and Blake and brexit spatech? No, probably can't Make no bones about it. I would love a full-blown voucher system. Minneapolis today spend just about $11,000 per pupil. That's about On a par with the most expensive day schools in the country. So we're getting close to reaching parody on that level. But recognizing the reality of politics in the strength of the opposition. You said no, but we certainly would like to have access to the less expensive private schools. Protectli those schools that stuck it out in the urban area largely parochial. So we tried to do was through a combination of tax deductions. And tax credits and earned income tax credits. Those designed for the Working Poor give them sufficient Capital. So in fact, they could enroll their children. in another type of a school We also wanted to give everybody some choices. If we sincerely believe that education is our number one priority and we are committed to that. Well, then why not also through the tax code Empower parents regardless of income? to be able to go out and purchase a computer for child the computer today. I would argue is comprable to the textbook in Arctic. Our ultimate goal is twofold one with the financial commitment that we have made. We will be number one in America in the ratio of students to computer. We will thank the Lord but the second part is I'd like to make sure that we provide for every low-income family the opportunity for them to have a computer for the truck. Again from a financial perspective that's a lot cheaper than paying the price of a faulty outcome, but much more importantly from the Humane perspective. It's imperative absolutely imperative that we do everything we can to allow our children to succeed. likewise on summer camps We have some of the finest language camps in the world. When's it be wonderful? If parents could receive some assistance through tax cuts to be able to send their kids off to a summer camp and study Spanish or science or math, whatever. Maybe you want to hire a teacher after hours. The kids falling behind in a given subject or maybe the kid needs some Accelerated Health, whatever it maybe you can do that. Anything that we can do as a society to assist a family. Infini able to handle the financial cost of educating their child if we win. We would much rather spend a thousand 2000 3000 or $4,000 up front to prevent a $40,000 your disaster much much rather do that. And we everybody in this room went that potentially. Is your employee base. That's potentially where you get your growth from. We wanted to move more of our money back to the individual School site, not so much to the district, but the individual School building for a partnership partnership Strader's teachers and families. What are your goals and objective? Why is everybody so petrified when you ask him for their mission statement? That's what you measure yourself against. What is your mission statement then you can argue about how do you intend to accomplish that mission statement? That's where creativity comes. We want the schools to be different. We want this school over here to say listen, we got this results because we utilize this technique which was developed in a partnership. This table isn't doing so good. So maybe they'll copy that one. That's how everybody games. The more creativity we can spin out the stronger we are. Likewise on Vocational Technical Training. We want to equip our schools. So that their equipment is on par with industry how many times to hear the story while the equipment I trained on his 30 years old? And it's no longer applicable to this know there has to be a relationship. So whatever we can do to build relationships between those people who employ and those people are to be trained the more we win. The truth of the matter is business cannot sit this debate out. You truthfully don't have a choice because if you do send it out you're going to lose you are going to lose big time. Because I guarantee you from a budgetary perspective the largest growth every single budget is going to be to be faulty outfit. And you're going to pay a whale of a price. So it's clearly not only to your best financial interest, but it's also to your best interest from an employer perspective to begin to realize that this is not just a political battle. This is a battle that involves every single one of us. Let me just related on a slightly more personal basis. two summers ago I went back. One of my old schools in New York City in the Bronx PS 36 in my day. It was kind of a rundown rinky-dink place. It had you know, those old wood floors that go like that the washboard floors not much of a play yard. And it consisted largely of children of immigrants. Today, it's about two to three blocks away from what I'm told is the toughest housing project in New York City. a very heavy percentage of minorities and yet let school has been transformed in my day. It was clearly understood that was because you were born there would be no resources no education. But if you're good little boys and girls will let you go through the system. Play visited the new PS 36 is still the same old building that is about 950 students is no longer a middle middle school. It's now basically in elementary school. The head of the school is a fella named Watkins e67 played forward on ccny, which is the only team in basketball history to win both the NIT and NCAA titles. And Watkins made it very clear that he was a religious man. But he said, you know, I don't impart my religious values to my children. But I do in part my values. You see these kids about a rough night. They basically have seen it all they've seen the drugs. I've seen the violence. They've seen the blood that seems that they've seen it all. When they come here, they're my kids. Can you see when a kid is late? I called up the family want to know where my kid is? And if the kid doesn't show up, I make it a point to show up. I want to know where my kid is. Well, it's 6 7 not too many people want to fight with Watkins. Every morning he assembles his kids in the auditorium. And it does it for 5 8 minutes largely to calm them down. He wants to reassure them that now they're at school. They're safe. He Comforts them he nurtures them. And he allows them to clearly understand that we haven't Define philosophy philosophy of right and wrong of expectations of hard work of all the basic principles that our society could well agree upon. Those kids I can say without hesitation or the best dressed kids. I've seen in any school public or private never buy into the myth that low-income families will not purchase good clothing for they will they're very proud of their children and they're very proud of the expectations that others have for their children. And when they walk the hallways they walk in perfect silence, and they do so because one of the guiding principles is mutual respect. You're quiet because someone else maybe working once a week every student in that school is evaluated by faculty every single week. If you're faltering you're put into another class after hours, so it's not uncommon to go there at 3:30 and see two three four students with one teacher going over reading they're picking up. Some of the kids come without any ability to speak English or put into a separate class and they're taught English the moment. They understand English then they're mainstream amazingly how practical it is. They didn't need rules and regulations from the from the legislature to do it. Just good old-fashioned common sense. When budget cuts come in the New York City, they're real budget cuz he will never come he will never cut a computer. I asked him what time do your teachers leave bearing in mind? We close some of our schools as early as to 2:30 in the afternoon here in Minnesota. Turn to the woman next to me. So what time did you go home? She said I went home 6:30 last night. It's not uncommon for kids to be working past 3 and a certain amount in common for faculty to be working past 3. He's allowed to cherry pick his own faculty. Which he does? And the result is a tremendous rapport. between faculty and student the outcomes are impressive. They test out in the top 25% of Now why can a school with all of those social problems do so remarkably well. It starts with one principal One Vision and the ability to be able to execute on that vision. How many times have you heard here in Minnesota? somebody challenge them test scores the answer is why you have to remember that a lot of poor kids out here or I know we never challenge. What is it you're saying are you saying that if the kid is poor you can educate them. If that's the case, why do you take the money? Are you saying that because the kid is quote a man already. Did you can't educate him? I moved out to Forest Lake. I thought I was moving to an affluent community. I love it out there other lovely homes, beautiful lakes great quality. Like I was stunned to read to my local newspaper that because the test scores were low. They were lowered because we have so much poverty. Let's become the standard excuse for everything. How many people are in this room were born poor? How would you like a system that told you that because you're poor we can educate you. Bank of America's that that since the kids I remember some well and I was rescued from what was to be this Ashley from so I'm a little angry at people are so quick to put other people on an ash tree. By the scholarship to the Choate school in Connecticut, and I remember coming in there to take what it What was what I now know it was a placement test at that time. I don't know what it was. Reset the alarm for 2 hours and part of the test was grammar. I never heard the word grammar. Then after lunch it was another two hours of Algebra. I never heard of the word algebra suffice it to say I did not Excel on those tests. But that's the result of what happens when you throw a kid on the Ashley. You can't throw children on the Ashley. How dare we as a nation say to our Elite to those people on the top that you can and should have the capacity to send your kids anywhere you want but let's make sure those other kids are locked into different systems. Look at it this way. Knives of the presidents of the United States nor the vice president nor any member of the cabinet nor any member of Congress not one of those people send their kids to a public school in Washington, DC. Not one. What institution is a tell us that will condemn thousands and thousands and thousands of others to those very schools where they refused to send the wrong kid, and then they say they're the moral leaders of our nation. That's a tragic. when it comes to education we should do for those who have the least the most. And there is no sense a backwood. How well I remember the Battle of 1997. Remember one school superintendent taken after me on an hourly basis. The moment the bill passed he took off of the private sector to sell the virtues of the tax credits. And another sent his daughter to Breck. Why are those tools so good for their children? But then they're so willing to tell other kids who do not have money. You must go there. And how can those Sebastian business or in government? Simply overlooked this until it's not our problem. You know what it is our problem the days of Go West Young Man are over with We are a fully developed a fully mature nation and we can no longer Escape our local responsibility. The truth is if Watkins. Can do this in the Bronx of New York City? We can do it in every single School in this state without exception every single one. The only question is do we have the will in our bill will be empowered universities and colleges to create Laboratory Schools to become models for public and private education. Some of them are starting to nibble on that. We lifted the lids on charter schools so we can have more Charter Schools more competition. You people in business win immeasurable. What does whole idea of competition in quality, but it has to come from a philosophical premise? I promise that goes beyond. the questions of economics and goes into the value of a human being Is there one person in this room that has the courage to go to a 7 year old? And say you will be sentenced to the a sheep. If you don't have that courage. When you owe it to yourself. To have the courage to say, you know what I want the same options for that child that I would give it to my own child. We ought to want all of our systems to succeed. I pray the day comes when a governor 10 years from now can stand here and say I'm sorry to say but private education is not cutting it when we compare the results to public education, that would be wonderful. That would be absolutely wonderful. We are found out in higher education. I've got a daughter who's going to the early process of selecting colleges and University and it's interesting how old three of us my wife my daughter and I sit down and we absolutely blur the distinction between public and private. Just blurt just focus on the needs of the child Visa V with the institutions can offer. I want that exact same dynamic. to apply to parents and two children when choosing he's School in the case of troll system. The truth is on that basis every single one of us every one of us wins. And you as Business Leaders emerge perhaps as the biggest leaders in the biggest winners of all, thank you very much. Minnesota Governor Arne Carlson speaking yesterday at a conference on education sponsored by the Minnesota Business Partnership. Well this morning we reach Joe Nathan who is the director for the University of Minnesota's Center of school change to talk to him a little bit about what the governor had to say or reach Joe who is on the road in Fertile Minnesota. I suppose that critics hearing today's speech are going to say well there goes our knee again bashing public education. Would that be justified you think his is constant emphasis on choice and the problems of the public schools face on is our willingness to take a hard look and a careful look at what's going on at the station. I think it's important to be fair. I think it's important to say here are some things we need to work on but I also think as you suggested that it's important. How to say here's some areas in which we made progress and I think the governor oughta help take credit for some of the improvements that have happened over the last seven or eight years that he's played a role in our we know more about student achievement in Minnesota. Then we did five or six years ago. He pushed hard for us to have statewide assessments and it was a wake-up call. I think he ought to say, you know, we know more than we did. I think he's right about the importance of helping low-income kids that we shouldn't I was interested in the governor's comments about educating kids from a poor background. What is the reality on the one hand? It does seem perfectly reasonable to assume that kids. Even if they come from a poor background can learn on the other hand Educators emphasized over and over again that these kids are are Starting at a real disadvantage which makes it real tough for the schools and the lives of low-income kids. The wise schools are learning the lessons of research and experience. The wise schools are reaching out to families are holding family student teacher conferences before school starts finding ways that the fan are making the families feel good about the school and are using new teaching techniques. We know that the traditional Ways work very well for some but they don't work for others this morning. I had a breakfast meeting with a bunch of of Marvel's kids in Perham Minnesota from Northwestern Minnesota, and there were some young people from very challenging trouble backgrounds, including a marvelous young woman named qari who who is attention deficit disorder and she was talking about how much she learned our because her wonderful teacher guide unless Gunderson. I had taken the kids out then were quality testing and had the kids do research about their own Community. That's one of the things that we promote. Getting kicked out of the classroom and into the killing this young woman have done research about how in the 1930s arsenic was used in Northwestern Minnesota to try to eliminate the the grasshoppers that we're coming through here and unfortunately too much arsenic was used and some of it stayed in the ground has had some terrible impact and she done some research about that in producing written a paper and produced a video tape was previously in school when school was read the chapter and answer the questions the ending point of this story Gary is that we know better ways to help youngsters learn and that includes all kinds of youngsters including extras from low-income families self. The wise schools are learning how they can make a difference in those kids education. The governor will stand up and say the same thing and we need to join forces and and listen to those very thoughtful Educators who know how they can make a difference with kids. So when the Educators say, well, we have a lot of problems with poverty in our district. We should ignore them. A priority and sometimes racism but we also need that with the problems outside school should not be excuses for problems inside schools and just this last legislative session of legislature, Alec a half a million dollars to help teachers learn about new approaches to teaching and I'm very proud to say that a number of teachers from throughout the state. When do the legislation said we know we can do better. I'm just this week. I got to call him in in a Pioneer Press quoting some teachers who said we know we can do better. We have to relearn teaching techniques and the end of wise teaching techniques involve working with families as well as working with the extra so that both the families have to change some of the things that they're doing and many low-income families are very willing to do that. If they are given the proper assistance and encouragement and many educators are stepping forward and park frankly because we have a different kind of situation where we have more public school choice and charter school. So we're moving in the right direction. So I know we should not ignore our property. We should not ignore problems outside schools, but we should not use those Excuses for Bob's inside schools has the governor place so much emphasis on choice that that the broader public school system is in danger of being ignored or short changed because after all only a relative handful of students, I would think would ultimately be able to go off to a private school no matter what kind of program includes the majority of people in the state. I do agree with him about public school choice, including Charter Schools we've seen and I think there's a major disagreement about the issue and and we approach that very very but we've also saying that well design school choice programs can help stimulate Improvement an example in 1985. We passed the post secondary option lock the last high school kids to go to colleges and universities in 1000 kids have used that since 1985, but equally important all over the state last year high school principals reported that there were hundreds of new courses that have been established right in the high schools because of high schools wanted to retain those kids. A partnership between high schools and colleges around children and Highland Park in St. Paul took several courses right in the high school for which they received both high school and college credit because St Paul August at 4 and said, well, we don't want to lose University of Minnesota to post-secondary options. So we'll offer more advanced courses right in the high school state. So well-designed public school choice programs can help stimulate improvements in in the existing system and that's part of the whole idea not just expand opportunity, but to encourage the system to improve itself finally Joel before we wrap up here. I want to get back to where we started this hour named Lee with the business Partnerships announcement that they're hoping more businesses will take a close. Look at those high school transcripts when the kids come in looking for the entry level jobs. Do you think that's going to make much difference affect the way the schools operate morning athletic accomplishments? We have all kinds of advertisements and business involvement in in in hockey tournaments in basketball terms, and that's fine. But I'd like to see the business Community devote as much advertising attention to the youngsters who excel in math contests or science contest we ought to have we literally ought to have more features on television TV news about that in the business committee could play an important role. This is Camille play an important role in really giving a message to youngsters that how they do in school really does make a difference and I think the business Community has taken a very positive position and encouraging thoughtful reform over the last decade in schools, but it hasn't just been it's been organizations like the urban Coalition children's defense fund. So there's been a broad coalition to say retain the best in public education, but let's make changes that are needed and that's why I think United States is a real leader in public education. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you joining us oil change we talk with him while he was in Fertile Minnesota when we tracked him down today. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio and will continue in just a moment. That's right. We have dress right now Indians in eastern Minnesota are fishing under their own rules this spring. I'm Rachel reabe join us for a discussion of Indian treaty rights and sovereignty during a special to our Main Street radio broadcast from the shore of Mille Lacs Lake Tuesday at 11 on Minnesota Public Radio. Can a w FM 91.1 Twin City? NPR's Main Street radio coverage of Royal issues is supported by the blandin foundation committed to strengthening rural communities through the community leadership program 5 minutes before noon and time for The Writer's Almanac.