I can grab a 6 minutes past 12 programming on NPR is supported by carousel automobiles The Oddities store and reducing the A4 and A6 Avant wagon available in front rack and Quattro models. Good afternoon, and welcome back to midday here on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. Glad you could TuneIn. One of the nation's leading opponents to affirmative action programs says that racial preferences may have to be phased out rather than simply band but Ward connerly says a colorblind Society must remain America's gold if America is going to live up to the proposition that all people are created equal or conerly is the black University of California region who first led the fight the band the use of race in admissions to the University of California system that each are the drive to pass the California civil rights initiative, which Outlaws racial preferences and state government practices. Now as the chairman of the American Civil Rights Institute, he's trying to overturn affirmative action programs Across the Nation or conerly was in the Twin Cities yesterday to speak at a luncheon for him co-sponsored by the center of the American experiment and the Minnesota Association of Scholars years University of California region Ward connerly. WC Fields always said start each day with a laugh and get it over with. An end by way of saying that I want to just kind of share with you that. last night I was at the University of Michigan and the night before that the University of Missouri sponsored by the young America's foundation and they were both rather contentious evenings coming this morning to the airport the students who were driving me who accept through the previous night remarked on. Courage I I didn't think it was predicted courageous to be there, but they did and they they said you know, is there anything that any place you wouldn't go to to speak to get your message out and it reminded me of a story about? true story about a young woman named Gretchen Alexander who was sightless that's correct for blind and she had mastered archery and skiing and softball and a number of other things nothing stood in the way of her enjoying life at its fullest. She was lecturing a high school group of high school students one day and one of them ass. Is there anything that you would not do? And she said yes, I will not Skydive and the question was well, why not? She said because it would scare the hell out of my dog. and so there is no place. I will not go even without my dog. It has several weeks ago. I happened to. Do I have the pleasure of attending a meeting in the Oval Office with the president and vice president to discuss the subjects of race and affirmative action and let me just say that. To the best of my recollection. I don't remember seeing the president alone with that woman Monica Lewinsky grand jury, that will be my testimony. But what a thrill it was to be in the White House meeting with the main guy the big guy regardless of your politics. If you if you love the nation and its glorious tradition as a senator would tell you it's it's it's certainly a thrill to to be there. But about as I sat there I thought of all the great leaders who had Occupied that office and I I thought of Jefferson and his Immortal words and you've heard them we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among those are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I thought of Jefferson when I sat there and I thought of Lincoln and his his words four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation. Conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. And I thought if I was sitting here, what would Reagan say to me? well He would say. We're all equal in the eyes of God. But in America, that's not enough. We have to be equal in the eyes of each other. That's what he said in his last public address to the American people. and it was kind of interesting that as I sent there throughout the meeting. the president buganda compare preferences based on race Where is preferences that we might give to athletes? And I begin to think about why am I here? I think about my own experience in this nation about the American experiment for which your Center is so aptly named and I thought about my being born. and the Deep South in Louisiana in 1939 and after my father had left the household. Two years after birth. My mother died 1943 and I came West to live with an aunt and uncle and my grandmother. And then a 1954 I travel back to the region of my birth to attend a funeral. And I will never forget that trip back to the Deep South. We stopped at a service station remember those. We call them fuel Empowerment Center is now don't weigh in. But we stopped at a service station. And this young boy that was not much older than I was. My uncle roll down the window and this young white kid said, what do you want boy? And my uncle said fill her up, please sir. And he rolled the window back up then muttered under his breath. Fu obscenities and my aunt said cuz James you're going to get us in trouble. And then we drove down the highway a bit and make sure was calling. But there was no restroom back at that service station for us to attend for colored people. So we stopped at a secluded field. Later that afternoon. We stopped at a diner. My aunt because she was quite fair skin still is when I'm through a side door to get hamburgers and Nehi sodas. You folks don't know what Nehi sodas are but they come in these big bottles and I always would get a strawberry Nehi soda. I couldn't go in with her because we didn't know whether the sign and there would say. We refuse the right. To give to provide service to anyone or Reserve. We reserve the right to provide service to anyone or the sign that said we refuse to serve coloreds. So my aunt went in alone she could pass They traveled we traveled all day and all night from California to Natchez, Mississippi. Because you couldn't find lodging. They take turns she drive for about 4 hours and then he would sleep while she's doing that and then it all tonight. Now I tell you these things to say that. If you experience discrimination of any kind you have a measure of understanding about how people feel about the issue of race. And I wanted to say to the president. Mr. President. You don't compare the status of athletes for God sake to race in this nation. I don't remember my history books having a chapter on the Civil War about athletes. We're not having a national dialogue about the status of athletes. We're having a national dialogue about the question of race. and so if you've experienced those things as I have you have a little bit deeper understanding about race and how it should be used and when it should be used as a result of History. Don't you think it's appropriate that we use race just a little bit sometimes to level the playing field. I say no given that experience. I come down on the side that we've been there. We've done that we want to do it again. You don't fudge it a little bit. There is no such thing as taking race into account a little bit. I remember when my wife and I married 35 years ago and most parts of this nation. That was illegal When we married. I have about a third Irish. But people like me and I don't mean 58 and bald. Don't marry people who are all Irish. Those are the boxes that our society puts us in and you're not supposed to stray outside those boxes. And I remember the stairs in the hostility from some of my fellow Americans. I to this day get a little angry at some of the condescension that I encounter from some of my fellow white Americans and some of those things anger me. I will tell you candidly. And I sometimes want to go to a diversity trainer and get a little understanding about how I deal with this but I would be less than candid if I didn't tell you that these are the things. That work on many of us. Who still have to deal and climb with that mountain that we call race skin color? But then I asked three questions. How long should I be angry? At home, do I direct my anger? What good does it do me? And so at the end of the day as I confront those questions. I come back to the point that today is the first day of the rest of my life when it comes to race and I can't go back and unring the Bell. 200 years ago I can on Ringgit for yesterday. But by God, I can ring it today and tomorrow. And the bell is the bell of what we want this nation to be. We can't compensate for the sins of the past. All we can do in some cases as to worsen them. But if all of us in our hearts believe that racism is wrong. Not just some of the time but all the time not just against black people in Latinos, but against whites and Asians, if we really believe that if we practice practice practice that then the American Experience the American experiment can be a real one. On June 11th, 1963 President. Kennedy said race has no place in American life for law. About two and a half months later. Dr. King went to the Mountaintop in that great. I Have a Dream speech. And what he saw was a nation that judge people not on the basis of what they are but on the basis of who they are. In 1964 President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and that act said fundamentally, but the people of California said almost verbatim. on November 6th of 1996 Estate shall not discriminate against. Or Grant preferential treatment to any individual or group on the basis of race sex color ethnicity or origin. In the operation of public employment public education or public Contracting that proposition. My friends is the American experiment. That's what it is. Taking people from all over the globe. people who were born here with different religious backgrounds different cultures different skin color men women different sexual orientation. people with all these differences and trying to merge it into one nation without divisible parts. That's the experiment. And I submit to you that it does not work. Once our nation starts requiring us to check these silly little boxes. And then decide who wins and who loses. And the competition of life on the basis of the box that you have checked. And this private or a group with which you are identified? as I set listening to the president at that meeting. The question haunted me throughout the meeting. Why am I sitting here? with the president of the United States the leader of the Free World the greatest democracy on the planet trying to convince him. That preferences on the basis of race and ethnicity or wrong. Can you imagine 30 some years ago? Dr. King sitting with President Kennedy and trying to explain to him that all people are to be treated equally and isn't isn't that something that we hold to be self-evident? But it's a reflection of how our society has changed. And how those truths that we thought were self-evident or no longer self-evident. They have to be taught. And as I sat there, I thought could it be that he doesn't know that since 1964? Our nation has involved a complex set of policies which discriminate against people in the name of trying to prevent discrimination. Does he not know that fire and police department hiring list or often cancel? Because the list of finalists is not diverse enough. That black employees in the County of Los Angeles are denied promotions. Because they have a population parody ordinate switch commands that every unit within the County of Los Angeles government reflect the racial and ethnic population of that County and that totally black position opens up. A black person who has who has a seniority and who is ready to move up can't do so because of that ordinance. Does he not know that that their job applicants were being passed over? Because they don't match up with the diversity Matrix of certain agencies. Does he not know that there are many academic Outreach programs that are restricted to blacks or Hispanics that University counselors visit high schools throughout this nation and only meet with Black Or Hispanic students that faculty positions are targeted for women are historically underrepresented minorities only I found job announcements at Berkeley at Davis that said the affirmative action goal of this position is and you could fill in the blanks of whatever they wanted for that position. Those things are not only illegal, but they're immoral. And so as I sat there. reflecting on my meeting with the president I concluded. that he knows. Sadly he knows. It's just that he doesn't share the same set of values. It isn't politically expedient for him to travel the route that I am traveling. But there's something else about this whole debate that I want you to think about. It's not just about taking away preferences. It's about giving dignity. With the best of intentions we are saying the young black and Latino kids that are colleges. Many of whom I have met with 3.9 4.0. Who can get into any college in this nation? We're saying to them. This is what we're getting you. And they carry that burden every day of their lives. some of them Some of those who support this whole system say well it's better for them to be there. With the stigma then to be without it. I have no doubt in this world. They would be there on their own. There comes a time when we have to say in this nation. You cannot presume the disadvantage of all black people. You cannot presume the privilege of all white people. This is a point I think of maturation for people who like me. I don't like walking into crowds and having them ask. Do you know? Shelby Steele, do you know Tom soul? Do you know Clarence Thomas? Do you know mr. William Smith in Des Moines, Iowa? Well, I don't know William Smith in Des Moines, but I'll bet my last paycheck that he's black. Now the point in telling you all of that is that there's this there's this tape that runs in our head about color. The presumption is that the soul Universe of my contacts happens to be black. And people with the best of intentions fall into that. And one of the reasons I am traveling the nation doing what I am doing suffering abuse as I frequently do is not just to tell you the preference of the wrong. Tell me why. So I dignity. I remember vividly. Watching White segregationists During the Civil Rights Movement talk about Rosa Parks. And one of them said what's the problem here? What is she sitting at the back of the front the bus gets there the same time for her as it does for everybody else. What's the problem? Problem was predicted. It was taken away. That's what the problem was. That was that's what the problem was when we couldn't sit at lunch counters about dignity. and when our society puts us in these boxes and makes presumptions about Who We Are and says to a young black kid with a 4.0 who is earned the right to be there on Merit. Allow others to think that that student wouldn't be there you're taking away a measure of that person's dignity. That's really what you're doing. And many of us may think well, let's keep affirmative action because it's better to bring a few more along from the inner city. Even if that's the price we pay I don't think so. We've reached the point of diminishing returns with these policies and I think more people are being harmed white black Latino Asian. You name the venue. It's Contracting. Typically, it's a white male that's being harmed if it's education is typically an Asian that's being hard and many places in California. It's black people who are ready for promotions who have achieved parody, but we're all paying a race tax. For these policies, but all of us who happen to be women or minorities typically pay a price. When somebody thinks that they're giving us something. through these policies I may be wrong. I don't know. but as I think this thing through there has to come a day when we say stop. We have to start right now. Visalia quality is really the only answer make no presumptions. I make no presumptions about you and what's going on up here on the basis of skin color or gender. I make no presumptions about you. I'll take you at whatever you present. That's all I ask. and when you talk about standards of morality is I believe this issue is there's one thing about moral standards. They don't change with the seasons. And what it really says is that if I'm not willing to give you something. I shouldn't ask for it for myself. And at the risk of sounding selfish, I will tell you that I am not willing. to Accord to anyone of you Any Head Start in the race of Life over my children? Over my grandchildren over myself on the basis of how the good Lord created you. And if I'm not willing to concede that to you. The unyielding standard of morality says I should not expect it for myself. That's what the experiment is about. That's the American experiment. And in the fullness of time, I think that we're going to get to that more perfect union. But I think we only get there by building on a foundation that we can all agree on. I think we can agree on Liberty. justice for all people freedom and equality and people who are not treated as equals. I can tell you from my experience or not. Truly free. And so I'm prepared to fight the good fight. and if there is no one leading me in this fight cuz I don't think we're going to get any leadership from the Congress. We're not going to get any leadership from statehouses. We're certainly not going to get in from my enemy from my fellow corporate leaders. But if there's no one leading. If there's no one to my left or my right beside me. if there's no one following I swear to you that I will swim NEC. climb any mountain why didn't you follow? engage any anime including the president of the United States and the awesome powers of that office. to ensure that my children my grandchildren who are of African Asian. Indian French and Irish descent from that Melting Pot that we call America. That they can enjoy the promise that we've given them from this experiment. And that's the promise of freedom. Promise of equality the promise that a fair shot in life. I will do that for mine. I will do it for yours. And I just want to close by saying that. I don't know how this is all going to shake out at the end of the day. I never have a moment's doubt that I'm going to win. but when I cross that land from this to the next I will never have any hesitation that I didn't try. And I think about that favorite song of mine. the third verse sung by my favorite singer Ray Charles Listen to him how beautiful. for Heroes proved in liberating strife Who more than self their country loved? and mercy more than life. America I love you America. God shed his grace on thee. and Crown thy good with Brotherhood from sea to shining sea Thank you very much. And may God bless all of you. University of California region Ward connerly speaking yesterday in the Twin Cities at a forum co-sponsored by the center of the American experiment and the Minnesota Association of Scholars. Following his formal remarks conerly took some questions from the audience and I don't believe we're all created. Equally, I believe we have different skill sets and abilities and talents, but we can all be treated fairly and I believe the race issue is not an issue of the head but an issue of the heart. So my question becomes how or what suggestions would you give to those who have an issue with race and it's an issue of the heart and not the head. Well, first of all, I don't want to crawl with you, but I think that in the eyes of our government Jefferson is right. The presumption has to be that way. We're not all in terms of all equal in terms of talents or whatever. in the eyes of our government, we're all equal we're all equal and that's really what Reagan was saying when he said that we have to be equal in the eyes of each other. when we meet in any other human being we should be prepared to judge that individual on the basis of what that what that individual has to offer. That's that's the equality. It's sang you are equal to me. Your equal to me. I don't care whether you're tall short, whatever you equal to me. In terms of how we can interact that's the heart. That's the presumption we give that person Prejudice is when we say you are green there for a being a green person here is what you represent. and there are times when I have problems with the diversity Trainers, for example. But there are times when I think that there are the salvation for where we going to go with us because they're able to get three able to work with people. And so let's let's find out why you don't see that person as any fool. Let's open up the let's find the key to that heart and talk about what it is that's causing you to act the way you are and behave the Way You Are mechanics mechanics of society So I think you and I are saying basically the same thing. It's just that we start from different points and the day that we don't believe that Jefferson was right about being created equal in the eyes of government is the day that we have to find out a new way of constructing this experiment. Thank u p time trials test on the chair of the libertarian party of Minnesota on the libertarian party. Minnesota has a model legislative Bill to remove preferences for the Minnesota Legislature that were hoping to find some sponsors for soon. My question is is do you support the libertarian parties call to have people boycott the year 2000 census in regard to racial check off boxes. How do I lead the parade? it all there is one of the most interesting things that happened at the University of California this year. In in past years, there has been a growing number of students of applicants who failed to check the box. This year it went from 2200 to 7100. 2271 hundred people who said it's none of your damn business and they just refuse to check the box. Interesting Lee enough this past summer in Russia. They eliminated the boxes. Because they thought that it was not the government's business about what ethnic classification you came from. And so I have been saying as a reagent to anyone who will listen we shouldn't even be having these boxes on our application forms. I don't think that I want to totally discourage monitoring right now. If we can't go to that colorblind Society cold turkey, I think I think that's that's something that reality kicks in with me. So I think there's a certain amount of monitoring and some way is desirable but I don't think the boxes are the only way to do it and I believe that in a short order that number will probably escalate from 7000 to a far greater number throughout the nation there people who are saying, I don't know why I'm checking these boxes. I don't know why you're asking information unless you intend to use it for malicious purposes. Right before I turn to Jason Lewis. Let me ask you to expand for just a moment on what you just said, but how we can't get there right away. Cold turkey. Could you embellish that a little bit? Ideally, I would like to wake up tomorrow and live in a society in which. Color doesn't matter race doesn't matter which we don't even try to use the word race. I'd like to have a moratorium in which we go for at least a week in which we describe people not by the black guy or whatever but by other traits just to condition ourselves to get out of this mindset, but that's not going to happen. And I think what we need to be doing is setting in motion some sort of process that leads us from where we are right now, which is a society that is very seat. And Consciousness about right for me to just it just seeps out of every pore of our society. So I would like to see a set in motion some sort of process that enables us to make the transition from where we are now to where we want to be. and maybe it's five years. Maybe it's eliminating the boxes this year. Maybe it's doing something else next year, but have some business plan. If you will that allows our nation to get from where we are now to where we want to be. I would say that 80% if my fellow black Americans opposed my position but enough about half of them. Really agree with it privately. It's just the timing. That's the problem. Give me some reassurance Ward that that we're not going to go back to where we were. And if we could have that process in motion. And deal with that problem of timing and not suggest that this has to be cold turkey cuz I certainly don't want to end all affirmative action now or ever I think the idea of making sure that we make sure that everyone has an opportunity that's not something we want to eliminate I'm talking about preferences. So if we could provide that transitional process and I don't know how I don't know how we do that. If I were in the White House, I'd work on that. If I were in the Senate I'd work on that that's what elected officials should be doing, but they're not doing that. You can't do it in this kind of a venue, but that's where we need to be headed. Thanks very much for a radio audience. We are listening to Ward Conley Regents of the University of California question from Jason Lewis Ward you mention that of course the assembly in California was going to tackle this to Congress isn't going to tackle it we can be pretty certain that the state of Minnesota's legislature won't tackle it unless it's buried in a bonding Bill someplace. My my question is can given that is it possible to overestimate the importance of citizens initiative and referendum and we don't course have that in Minnesota. You could never overestimate that an arc in the state of California. We would not have had property tax reform. We would not have had term limits. We would not have had proposition 209 if we had to go through the legislature. There's there's something about the legislative process that allows people who are elected with 95% of their constituency thinking a certain way the moment they walk into those hallowed Halls. They change. Something something happens even my good fellow Republicans that happens and when that happens there has to be some Escape valve for the people to grab their pitchforks and charge up that hill and say this is what we want to do and thank God for the initiative process in the state of California because the legislature for the last 20 years has been totally indifferent. To the will of the majority. Or do we have a question on your left of the room? I see that often. My name is Bill McCoy. I think people are basically selfish to a certain extent and there will always be a tendency to favor people who are the same as you there will always be clicks based on whatever if that's true. Do you think that there should be a corrective mechanism from government to ensure fairness or do you think religion should handle it or what? What is your your view of of how to handle the natural selfishness that you'll you'll find what is racially expressed otherwise and not meeting with the president? Vice president Gore was there. and as I sat in that meeting I when I mentioned Lincoln Jefferson Reagan Clinton, they all their all their last names. And I thought the one thing that will forever stand in my way of becoming president of the fact that my last name doesn't end with in. but I also thought Gore's chances are diminished to But one of the things he said in that meeting. Was that we are by Nature? prone to bigotry and Prejudice Human nature mr. Vice president said I really disagree with that premise, which you just stated. I think that at the heart of the American Spirit Is indeed a passion for fairness. It doesn't exhibit itself always the way we would like for it to. But I have found more examples Great and Small. of people who move when they are when they're presented with Racism they may need to be prodded but that passion for fairness comes through. Racism segregation sexism Texaco. Sometimes we bring people to their knees without even having all the facts. So I really I really quarrel with the premise that we are by definition by Nature. People who do not have that goodness send them the better angels of our nature. I really I really Coral with that premise because if that premises right if that premises, right? Then you really can justify. That's Italian hand to Paleteria and hand of a government to keep us from ourselves to protect us from ourselves And I pray to God that my version and my vision of of the human spirit is the right one. Award 209 steak in a lot of legal pressure and in California, do you want to just share a little bit of that story with us and and where it's at right now? Okay, you're right. It has taken a lot of legal pressure. It's been put to the test from the day after it passed. It is right. Now the law of the land of California that is the the the courts every step of the way except for the first judge Henderson had sustained 209 the Supreme Court of the United States refused to hear it there by letting it stand we have a provision in the State Constitution, which says that no initiative can take effect until the courts apply that initiative to specific statutes and so is a result 209 has not been fully implemented until we can look at every individual statute statute generically and say that this body of law is unconstitutional last Friday the governor by executive order as a result of a decision coming from the 9th circuit. Eliminated all of the preference programs in Contracting in state government. So in California today, there is no 5% or 15% preference on the basis of Contracting Contracting in California state government is now a thing of the past. We are living in a race free Contracting process. Let me just add parenthetically that I don't want to stop there. I want to make sure that Prime contractors whomever. They are doing fat provide opportunities to people to bid and so I'm urging the legislature now as we begin to make that transition to not just go back to wherever we were because I think that's what he said over there about people hiring those who might look like them. There's there's a certain amount of Truth to that and I don't want prime contractor just picking up the phone and calling Charlie and saying give me a bid. I want them to really widely provide that offer Tony tirado to all people but it is going to take us probably another two years. Candidly to get all the way through the process and change the statutes and more importantly change the culture of the state. So that 209 is in fact a lie that living breathing body of law in the state of California. Grand Minneapolis, California law school as a student when Bakke vs. University of California Regents, and I know a lot about the case that you might tell everybody is from Duluth Minnesota. But anyway, the thing that bothers me is that I see an underground economy, which is equivalent to welfare, but you have in the affirmative action and nothing against the lady who's the diversity trainer, but if you were to eliminate when I call race-baiting and the racial issue you would have a lot of unemployed people who are diversity trainers. It's just like the social workers in welfare If you eliminate welfare and social workers have to find another closet another job. So what are we going to do? What are we going to recycle all of these diversity trainers? Well, I cannot lie don't you ask her a pretty broad question, but but let me just let me just say this. There are some diversity trainers that I have been countered that engage in a lot of this psychobabble and really do a lot of damage in my view but I've seen some programs that make a lot of sense folks taking people who really have not had exposure to different for different people and bringing them together and engaging in some kind of interaction not not demanding and compelling people to participate in courses on college, but there's nothing wrong with getting a little exposure to people who have a different point of view than you who might look different from you and there are good diversity trainers who have good techniques and there's some bad diversity trainers. They're good CEOs and there's a bad see a different company. So I would urge you not to put all diversity trainers into the same box because some of its a lot of witch hunting in a lot of a lot of fraudulent stuff, but some of it I've seen has been very good and And there a lot of my friends who you know wondering when I say this, but I call it as I said, I've seen some cases where those who were in that field have done an awful lot of good on college campuses and other places. I don't like in some cases some of the diversity stuff that goes on in some of the corporation's I think it ends up in many cases doing a lot of harm but don't paint them all with the same brush don't come down on the side that they're all a bunch of witch Hunters were doing bad work because that's not true. There's some good things are happening Brian case. I'm a student at the University of Minnesota and I'm the administration of Houston Minnesota were adamantly tell you that they don't use race Pace preferences and admission policies and our scholarships, but we all know that's false. My question to you is at the California University Systems when you keep the boxes, how do you prevent the emission station from using it maybe not officially but unofficially preferences. Well, you know, I don't think that there is a public university or private probably in America. That isn't using race. to one extent or another and this business that we we really aren't using it is just a lie. That was the first thing I was told by the administration when I started looking into this back in 1994 that we don't use rice or if we use it. It's just it's just a plus just a little little Factor. Well, if you look at some of the numbers that are coming out right now unless unless we've all of a sudden become bigots and are discriminating against black and Latino kids, which I don't think anybody can convince me anybody that the University of California is doing that, you know that we're using rice in a profound way and the extent of the drop in the numbers is a reflection of the extent to which we were using rice. now I don't think if they are predisposed to want to use race that there's any way unless we say no essays either that we can get around. Them taking that into account if they want to if they want to break the law believe me our faculty and I mean no disrespect guys are faculty can find a way to get around it because an essays are all kinds of ways of of finding out information out the last names reclaim with frequent will Telegraph who the applicant is, but there are ways of getting around the last names in California if you're taking an exam for the bar or if you're taking an exam for a real estate license, they do it by Social Security number. So why can't we do that for applicants to college but the faculty also tell me that they want to take into account the experiences of the students and you can't get that unless you invite an essay and if you invite the essay unless you say the students were going to summarily dismiss your application if you make anything make any reference at all to race. Then I'm not sure how we can have a Fail-Safe system. eventually, we just have to get to the point where we make sure that our Administrators know we don't want you to use race. That's that that's the culture that we have to bring about. And that's what these folks are the Minnesota Association of Scholars. That's what they're doing more than anybody else that I've seen on the in the academic setting and praise the Lord that they're doing it. Let me let me ask you too and you should know that mr. Connolly and I talked about this at the airport on the way over here at this question and you can embellish it and bring the afternoon to a close. Anyway, you'd like you have any hesitations at all about of the very crisp use that that you have particular as a plays out in American higher education. I would be less than candid if I didn't tell you. that I often have moments of hesitation about timing. about the timing if we can't bring everybody Along on this boat. To cross the sea to that destination that we want. If we leave large bodies of people behind who think there are motives were less than pure. Then we will have made. Probably a very serious mistake. And so the one thing that allows us to bring people along is a little bit more time to think it through in the build that consensus. And when you start talking about matters of rice without a doubt you end up talking about the relationship between black and white, although Society is much more complicated than that inescapably you end up talking about the relationship between black and white. And when white people are making the decision largely perceived by black people as perceived by black people to eliminate quote affirmative action, which most of us who have seen this in an operation know that's largely a system of preferences when you make that decision. It behooves us as a society to try to bring as as many black Americans so long to understand that we're doing it for the right reason. We're not taking something away. We're trying to make this experiment work. and I think that that there is at least 50% of my fellow black Americans who will agree with me that preferences are wrong. There's some that won't because there's a certain economic interest they're invested in the system. But I think 50% really will agree with that preferences are wrong just a matter of timing and so we have to take that time to bring them along because the one concern that they have and it's one that I often share as well. I just end up in a different point than they do and that is can I really trust you. Can I really trust you on this? Are you really going to be right there with me? You've got the numbers. Are you going to be fair to me? And as I pull if we pull back the system of preferences in the back of my mind. I'm thinking and I'm asking the question. Kept kept can we really trust Society at the end of the day I come down. Yes, we can because my fellow Americans are in fact good people. Not always but generally good people we want to do the right thing. Give us a chance to do the right thing have faith in the system in the experiment my faith in the experiment is unabiding it is it has no bottom. I want you to believe the same thing. Thank you very much. Been listening to Ward connerly Regent at the University of California speaking in the Twin Cities yesterday to form that was co-sponsored by the center of the American experiment and the Minnesota Association of Scholars. Connor. Connor Leigh has been leading the charge against racial preferences first at the University of California in terms of admissions later at the state level in California pass helping Paso initiative, which essentially bans erase from consideration and state government hiring practices in the rest, and he's now traveling the country talking about his beliefs on affirmative action and racial preferences. If you missed a part of Ward connerly speech we will be re broadcasting his comments at 9 tonight here on Minnesota Public Radio. Like to remind you that programming on NPR is supported by the only offs francaise French Cultural Center adult or children's classes begin Monday, March 30th registration of a little information is available at 33 to 04360 that does it for midday today. Now a big day coming up on Monday among other things. First of all, we're going to be talking about education hoping to get your views on what you'd like. The gubernatorial candidates to address in terms of Education policy is in conjunction with Minnesota citizens for Citizens involvement project and movie Maven. Stephanie. Curtis will be along over the noon hour. We're going to talk about the Academy Awards and opening the phone line so you can weigh in with your thoughts on the movies that's coming up on Monday. Sarah Meyer is the producer of our midday program Mike McCaul finger our associate producer. We had help this week for Mark Hughes Rodger them all. I'm Gary I can thanks for tuning in. I'm more to Benson on the next All Things Considered Eleanor Osman shares her favorite stories from 30 years of testing recipes that story of the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 you're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a sunny Sky. It's 39 degrees at Kendra W FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul sunny all afternoon. It could hit 45 yet today partly cloudy tonight with a low in a low twenties and then partly cloudy tomorrow with a high temperature in the middle forties little light snow is possible on Sunday.