Transcripts

LEE PAO XIONG: According to folktales being told by our elders, they said that the Hmong originally had a kingdom. And it was part of the Yellow River Valley area and it was very fertile. And so the Chinese saw that it was very fertile.

The Chinese came. And the Chinese and the Hmong had a long history of war. But the Chinese came in and tricked one of the Hmong kings, and eventually killed the Hmong king, and then took over the kingdom. So that's what we lost that particular piece of land there.

But there's also folktales that seems to suggest that the Hmong migrated down from Mongolia. And so there's that side of the story, too. And Mongolia in Hmong means this princess, [? Go ?] [? Li. ?] And so it was suggested that maybe we were from that particular area because we were somewhat like nomadic people and like to move from place to place. And we're farmers.

And so there's two sides of the story. There's two sides. But over the years, we've had the opportunity to interact with our fellow Hmong in China. And so we were able to put pieces together, and pulling things together, and say, well, yes, a long time ago the Hmong did have a king. And yes, we did have a kingdom.

CHRIS ROBERTS: And have the Hmong always been an agrarian people? Have they always farmed, lived off the land? And how did they do that in the mountains of Laos? That must have been tough going.

[LAUGHS]

LEE PAO XIONG: Well, we've always been that. We raise our own pigs, and cows, and chicken and live off the land. In Laos, we live way in the mountains. We practice slash and burn agricultural techniques. Basically, we burn the entire-- we would go and cut off and the trees, and the branches, and the shrubs, and then let it dry for a couple of months, and then go back and burn it all up and plant our crops there.

And then the following year we would go and find other places to do it. So people move from place to place. And there were-- and I think that's why a lot of the older people, they miss that kind of lifestyle because there were no territories, see? You can go. And if nobody has claimed a particular mountain per se, a side of a mountain per se, you can just go and stake your claim and build your little hut there, your house there, and chop down the trees, and just burn it off, and plant your crops.

It's a simple lifestyle. It is a very simple lifestyle. And even some of the road leading up to the Hmong villages, you have to walk. So you have to either walk or ride ponies or-- you can't even use ponies or horses because of the fact that some of them-- some of the areas are so remote. And so some of the main roads seems to be way down the lowland areas.

And I remember the life back then. It was very simple. We would have to walk, let's say, over a mountain and through the valley all the way to the other side of the mountains just to catch a taxi to go to the market. So

CHRIS ROBERTS: Now, you remember that, Lee Pao? How old are you?

LEE PAO XIONG: I came here when I was nine years old. I lived with my father in Long Cheng, which is the-- if you look at any maps produced before 1975 of Laos, it won't be there because it's a CIA headquarters. So it was never published, but I lived with my father in that particular town. And we also have-- my mother, and my grandparents, and my brothers all lived in the village.

So I remember a lot of these things. I remember going to schools and walking two or three hours to get to school, and waking up real early in the morning. And it was really cold.

And it was cold up there in the mountains. And I remember how we-- to keep ourselves warm, we would put holes in cans and put charcoal in there and carry that as a heater. And then going along the way, we would get twigs and branches and put in there and keep us warm all the way.

CHRIS ROBERTS: You mentioned the CIA. That brings up a subject I'd like to talk about, and that is how the Hmong became involved in the American war in Vietnam. You were recruited by the CIA, as we understand it. Explain how that developed.

LEE PAO XIONG: Well, again, this is going back to the fact that the Hmong were very peaceful people. And the Hmong-- let me go back again. The Hmong fought with the Chinese. And some of them couldn't stand it anymore and they moved down.

And then when the French came, they imposed high taxes on the Hmong. And so the Hmong rebelled against the French. And then when the Japanese came, the French came over and recruited the Hmong because the French couldn't beat the Hmong. And the Hmong were fierce fighters. And so we sided with the French to fight against the Japanese.

And then when the communist Vietnamese came over, the United States came. And the United States heard about the Hmong fighting skills and knowledge of the terrains there. And the Hmong were known for being great hunters.

And they know the territory well. So the United States came and recruited the Hmong and basically said that if the Hmong helped the United states, if the United States win, then the Hmong would get their own kingdom, see? That's what some of-- that's how we were told.

And so the Hmong fought. But the Hmong wants to live in peace and so people came. And of course, the Ho Chi Minh trail cuts right through Hmong territories so we can't just sit back and say, we're not going to mess around with this. We're not going to mess around. We're going to stay in peace.

Our areas were-- our peaceful way of life were being destroyed. And so we sided with the United States and we rescued a lot of the American pilots who were shot down over our territories. And we sabotaged the Ho Chi Minh trails. And I know my father personally rescued American pilots.

And back then, I think we were very dedicated people. My father got recruited into the war and was only 12 years old. And my uncle also got recruited when he was only-- I think he was 11 or 12 years old. And my uncle died in the war. But they were recruited.

And my father was saying that they couldn't even carry the M-16 because it was so heavy. And some of the army clothes, of course, were so baggy, as my father showed us pictures of those. And it was very baggy.

And they were just kids. They were just children. But whenever a plane is shot down over a particular area and that particular pilot happens to be an American, General Vang Pao would say, you don't come back until you rescue them. You bring back that person.

CHRIS ROBERTS: General Vang Pao was the leader of the Hmong forces.

LEE PAO XIONG: Correct. And he was the leader of the forces in that particular area. And so the Hmong were very dedicated and very committed. And I think that's why you see a lot of the Hmong screaming and yelling here in this country and saying that, wait a minute, there's all these promises.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Well, I guess I was wondering whether the Hmong fought against their will, but it sounds like they had no choice in a way. Plus, they were promised a new kingdom by the Americans, as you put it. A new kingdom in this country?

LEE PAO XIONG: A new kingdom in Laos. And the United States said, if we lose the war, we will bring you with us. See, that's the thing. We will bring you with us.

But I think the Hmong also fought against their will, too, because many young men were drafted. They were dragged off to war because all of the men were being killed off. And so they came and just start pulling people. Every young person that they can find, they would drag off to war.

And I still hear people say that, well, they drag off my son and he died. And my father was saying that during the conflict, when it was really intense, you have a lot of young people in the battlefield. And they don't know when to pull out and they don't know what to do. And when you have grenades, and bombs, and gunfire all over the place, some of these young kids-- the kids, they just froze.

And then they won't pull back. And then the communist Vietnamese would come and just butcher them in the trenches. And my father said it was very painful to see those type of things.

And so when we came to this country, I told my father, I want to be-- I want to join the army. And he said, yeah, right, I'm going to let you do that. Because he was saying that when you watch TV, it looks very glamorous. But when you're sitting in the trenches and you saw your friend next to you being knocked off by gunfire and die right in front of you, it's not fun anymore.