For 16 years. Jim Solon was Minnesota's resident housing Guru. If you had a question about State housing policies State low-interest mortgage programs Trends and state housing Mr. Solemn as head of the Minnesota Housing Finance Agency was the person to talk to Jim has a new job. He is the new regional administrator of the retooled Metropolitan Council the agency charged with overseeing development in the Twin Cities metropolitan area, but he still very much involved in housing issues, especially given the debate over the Met council's role in developing and perhaps enforcing housing policies for the entire Twin Cities area plus of course, the council now has brought new Transportation responsibilities such as running the bus system in the Twin Cities. Tim Sullivan has been good enough to stop by to discuss his new job at the Met Council what's happening. Thanks for coming by appreciate it. Thank you. Glad to be here before we get into.The big public policy issues too deeply let me ask you let me draw on your expertise from your days at the Housing Finance Agency a Federal Reserve today is trying to decide whether to raise interest rates again is that if they do as expected will not have a particularly deleterious effect on housing here in Minnesota. Well, I don't know how negative it'll be. It'll clearly have an impact rates have gone up for five times already this year. And each time. You've seen a Slowdown in either housing starts are mortgage volume. You see the impact on the mortgage business in terms of layoffs Etc there. So rate increases obviously have an impact on affordability, but we have to remember we're still well below where we were several years ago. So that housing the cost of money is still relatively good compared to recent years back in the 1970s maybe until the early 80s. There are a lot of people who made a real killing on their houses.Bought their house low sold at High made a lot of money is is a house still a good investment so far as you can tell or is it should be viewed purely as a place to hang your hat. I think you have to be very careful about looking at housing as an investment ever those of us who owns single-family detached things we clearly and I've always said this should never buy based on what we think the investment will be and if you look at the demographic data for the rest of the 90s and on into the next Century, we simply are going to have the demand pressure that we had in the seventies and eighties created by new household formation, which was a big part of the rapid run up in house prices during that period of time so caution would certainly be the appropriate the watchword in terms of thinking about housing increasing values for the future now tell us a little bit if you can give me an idea what what's changed at the Met Council met CouncilStarted back in the night wasn't 1970-71 67 accident. It was a model is a model around the country is up as a kind of a regional planning agency and over the years. It seems to have I have not fallen on hard times, but he come a little bit irrelevant to the big the big issues of the day now, it seems like you're right back in the middle of it again. Will the council has had as you said an interesting history and I think it still is a model in many ways for looking at what's going around on around the nation. There aren't very many places where you have something like the Metropolitan Council on certain way. Now the new Metropolitan council with its new role of bringing together planning as well as operational responsibilities for several of the major systems that are necessary to make a metropolitan area function effectively and grow in a sensible rational way what the legislature did in the last session is merge for agencies in the one on the Metropolitan Council Wastewater Services Transit operations, and on October 1st, the regional transit board becomes a part of the console. So you went from a staff of about 150 people to a staff of about 3,700 in an operating budget of 362 + million dollars with all of These major infrastructure responsibilities now on the back of a single organization. So the legislature was interested in accountability because there were a variety of boards and commissions governing the operation of the delivery of these other services. There is now one board or one console D Metropolitan Council 16 Members Plus a chair a single staff, which is under the direction of a one-person beginning in January when that part of the law really kicks into effect. So you have a clear accountability and they have the opportunity to do I think a number of fascinating things in terms of linking planning operations and continue discussion about the growth and development of this metropolitan area. Do you think they met Council needs more Authority should have become a true Metropolitan government so that it basically could run the Sun City metro area, I don't think that is either possible or probably even sensible in terms of the scale at which you have to function not to do that where a metropolitan area of 2.3 million people scattered all over the Twin Cities metropolitan area to Central City's on and on and on so I'm a single unit. I don't think is the answer clearly. The legislature has said we'll take a look at this kind of Reform and restructuring and move on with trying to bring the pieces together and more accountability and really make it clear that the council has a responsibility to both plant and operate two for the continued growth and development of this area. Do you want the authority to be able to tell a community lucky have to take X number of subsidized houses? Part of this whole debate about trying to disperse the concentration of poverty in the Twin Cities. Would you like to have that kind of authority? I don't want that Authority and I don't think the council wants that Authority the council is in the midst of right at the end really of adopting a blueprint which is its major policy document for the next few years and terms of thinking about the important issues of the face this area economic growth reinvestment in distressed areas building stronger communities and certainly Distributing affordable housing around the area is a major part of that effort. And if the blueprint is adopted as it is now drafted the council will take a pretty strong position about what his expectations are for communities. It'll develop some performance criteria for meeting those expectations will be very clear about monitoring and evaluating what communities actually do and then using this evaluation in making decisions about The the distribution of certain kinds of resources and dollars about the extension of important Metropolitan the services like Wastewater services and so on and so far. So I think the council is about to adopt a pretty strong position in a pretty strong statement on expectations and process for responding to this particular issue. There's one more important point. I think we all have to understand that it's easy to say what folks are to do and it's probably relatively easy to suggest what numbers are to be for a particular Community. There is a pretty clear resource issue involved here as well in terms of having adequate dollars to respond to the needs for affordable housing in all places in the metropolitan area, including the central City's I know a little bit about that cuz you said I was for a longtime director of an agency that did this and I know how hard it is to put together. Affordable housing Finance packages to make things happen and I think we've done a pretty good job in this metropolitan area one piece of data that I think is important the Housing Finance Agency in the year since it was created has done something like twenty one thousand + units of rental housing been involved in 21,000 + units of rental housing just in this metropolitan area half of those are in the two Central City's half are in the suburbs a pretty substantial effort in Suburban areas when there were resources in dollars to get things done and the Housing Finance Agency to my account to local governments and others are working hard to respond to that problem, but it takes money and it takes real money in terms of the affordability issues that we face today given the income situation with the young families the kinds of jobs that are available. Today and the lack of federal resources in terms of what we once had in the seventies. I came to the Housing Finance Agency in 1978. And I think in the first 18 months, I was there the agency Finance something like 3,000 units of affordable rental housing of the resources to do that are simply not available today, I guess today is Jim Sullivan, who is the former Commissioner of Minnesota Housing Finance Agency. He is now the regional administrator for the Metropolitan Council. That's the agency that is charged with overseeing planning in the Twin City metropolitan area a can from Saint Paul is on the line with our first question the financing of low income housing addresses first to the city's it seems to me that if you want to put low income housing in a more expensive suburb first, you got to buy the land which is going to be obvious in words. Great public subsidies and then after a housing is built you'll have to have more substance on an on an ongoing basis and you know, you dressed somewhat the political climate of having money allocated to such projects my question pertains more specifically to to what all is involved what kinds of cost you incur on a continuing basis and and how large of a scale do you do you anticipate the Project's being of the disbursement of loan can have them throughout the city while you're absolutely right land costs are an important part of the cost of affordable housing and the area that has been among the highest cost increase elements in the last few years is in fact land cost. The issue for rental housing is really no different than it is when you and I go buy a single-family home. We want to have that mortgage payment as low as possible. So we spend a small portion of our income as is possible for housing costs. So what you're trying to do when you do affordable rental housing is reduce the mortgage to the lowest possible amount either buy all kinds of contributions of dollars or putting a packages of money together that have as low and interest rate as is possible Right Down the cost to get communities involved to help provide the utilities infrastructure Etc. Then of course, you have operating costs and in Minnesota rental housing pays a substantial disproportionate amount can real estate taxes compared to single family homes the stuff that you and I live in that because of the nature of Minnesota's complicated real estate tax system. So they Operating cost which involve taxes which involve all the kinds of utilities are a big part of what the has to be looked at along with repaying whatever portion of the total cost ends up in a real mortgage. The question of scale was asked. It's probably true that makes no sense to build large developments any longer a the money isn't available and be there are no problems with the having a large a developments just in terms of the management the difficulties today what the Housing Finance Agency was involved in was trying to work with the communities and developers to do small development 20 30 units at a time for families and make those as affordable as we could and get them located in as many communities around the metropolitan area and indeed around the state as as possible. What's been your experience are most people Open to the idea of having poor people living next to him. I think we have to be careful about how we asked a question. First of all of us get a subsidy to live where we live and those of us who are lucky enough. I want a house get a pretty substantial subsidy in terms of what both state and federal income taxes provide to us and probably not very many of us would be able to live where we live. If we didn't get the that subsidy for example, the tax benefit the homeowners in Minnesota through the homestead property classification system. This is some data just from the Department of Revenue last week the 660 million bucks that homeowners get in the way of a subsidy through the property tax system. We get an additional 270 million bucks through being able to write off our mortgage interest deduction on state income taxes. So we all get help to live where we live the question is, how do we do it? For folks who don't have adequate incomes to afford what is necessary in terms of either rents or in some cases homeownership. There are certainly objections in some communities and some locations to placing certain types of housing in the community than MB phenomena that everybody talks about not in my backyard is in fact alive and well in Minnesota are experienced at the Housing Finance Agency in the experience of local communities around the metropolitan area around the state is that with proper discussion and review with neighborhoods with appropriate to design and with the good management that you can overcome a lot of those problems, but they do in fact exist, but I think we all have to understand that we get help through tax and related subsidies to live where we live and we have to be careful about the way in which we Define the Joe from St. Cloud is on the line with a question for Jim solomite housing of the first one at least and I i i i to believe that we should have not large apart apartment complexes, but small ones just distributed all over. What would it be possible I guess to look towards corporations or factories. If if you're going to open up a new area or something like that that you you need to put some money aside to help support the the low-income employees that might be working in that new area or something like that get Mara private involvement in trying to trying to To come in and help us support that if if if a large corporations or something or even the small a lot of small corporations are going to say well we're going to develop in this area. I would think you would be a way to to say well if you're going to develop in this area, you have to guarantee that you're going to put a side so much funds to to pay to have this low-income. That's a fascinating concept which is actually been tried or at least looked at in primarily in the West in the Heyday of growth in California and other kinds of places where there was huge growth in the 80s and early 90s in the point you raised is a very important one because it's happening all over Minnesota and you've seen some information about that in the Press lately in smaller rural communities where egg processing or manufacturing of some sort has happened. Turns out there's no housing and there certainly isn't any affordable housing that because of the impact of new jobs or the growth of an existing plant and there are certainly opportunities to link up resources from the private sector as investment in affordable rental housing the low income rental tax credit does that and there is a fair amount of that going on in Minnesota now, perhaps not directly by businesses causing growth, but that is certainly a possibility there have been any number of examples around the country where businesses have participated in mortgage financing programs of one kind or another for employees as a result of job growth and it's an issue that probably is worth continue detention in all parts of Minnesota. By the way. We just got word from Washington that the Federal Reserve has decided to raise a to key short-term interest rates once again leave fat is in Greasing its discount rate as it's called 4% and the FED funds rate is going up to 4.75% So the percent increase in that last rate somewhere expecting a half a percent. I think I have to ask before we get to our next caller while we had to call her from st. Cloud to you. I know that the senses people have all but decided that we have one big metropolitan area basically from st. Cloud to Rochester. At least. There's been a lot of talk about that up late. Should they met Pawn Council have authority over that that whole area think in terms of future development know, I don't think that's either appropriate and certainly not politically a realistic what console has said and we'll say in the blueprint document that it is about to adopt is that it wants to develop much closer working relationships with communities on the edge of the Twin Cities Metropolitan. A fair amount of that is already going on especially as we look at the impact of possible airport development certainly the transportation system of this metropolitan area is impacted by what happens from those folks who drive in from the Northern parts of the area between here and st. Cloud and even between here and Rochester so there is certainly the need for and it's been recognized by the council for improving and working on its relationships with communities County's organizations at The Fringe, but I think an expansion of Consul boundaries is probably not the possibility of Solomon's the new regional administrator for the Metropolitan Council. He's been good enough to come by and talk about the Twin City area Metro issues. Let's sit down for Minneapolis is on the line next. Hello. Hello. Marion kind of just made by try all the Housing Development seems like in the future we're going to have houses for is infinity. How far can we go out there? You know, I'm wondering about know it's there any idea of having Farms? No saving Farms or green belts. Are we going to just have this low-density housing just just as far as I can possibly the developers can build houses while you put your finger on what is probably one of the most interesting and perhaps most difficult issues facing this metropolitan area. What do we do about engross at The Fringe and how do we provide appropriate protection for the a gland and green space? That is so necessary. And again, the blue print documents at the council is about to adopt will have certain standards in terms of development requirements and standards that it hopes to achieve to preserve a gland and there's a fair amount of egg. Land within the entire metropolitan area that ought to be preserved and hopefully will be preserved along with parking open space. And again the council is very much involved in parking open space funding with regional parks and working with local governments on that particular issue, but the fundamental question is what can a regional agency do to have some impact on growth and sprawl this particular metropolitan area with the council now has the ability to impact for example, the extension of sewer lines sewer systems. We have something called the urban service area The Muse the line as it is a fondly and sometimes not so finally known among the planning Community the metropolitan area and that line is a real line on a map which says Beyond which certain kinds of urban services will not be provided. And a certain density of growth the should not happen and a large part of what the council does and its relationships with local governments is work on and negotiate those kinds of development issues about what kind of growth is going to take place. Where at what particular standard and use the tools that we have extension of Wastewater Services being an important one transportation services local Plan reviews and others to have an impact on that and I suppose that General issue is the most contentious issue and certainly the most difficult continuing issues at the council has in its relationships with local governments developers and others throughout the entire metropolitan area Minneapolis. Mayor Sharon sayles Belton said on Morning Edition this morning that the other cities are across the country Twin Cities included are slowly dying. Do you agree with that? She was referring to thanks primarily the central cities. Weather certainly changing in ways in which are healthy for the Long Haul the console is issued a whole variety of reports related to that including one called trouble at the core a few years ago, which was an important part of stimulating discussion on this issue. We have an opportunity. I think in this metropolitan area to do more to prevent that death. If in fact that's the right term than a lot of other places around the country because we have what we have our problems. We still are basically a reasonably well-off. We have a pretty good economic kibasen Factor, very good economic base the continues to grow we have good basic services that are apart of what is necessary for continued growth and development. So the real challenge is to make certain that the economic development policies and then all that we do. With basic Public Services recognize the importance of the two Central cities in the role that they have to continue to play for. This entire metropolitan area. Eileen is on the line from Cottage Grove with a question for Jim Sullivan Washington County, which is the fastest growing area in the Twin City metro area and as a result of all that growth we also have chronic problems with inadequate classroom space and insufficient support services and even promised to have enough recreational facilities for all the young families these growing communities attract. What I'm wondering is what is the responsibility of the developers who make millions of dollars creating these communities instead of constantly having to come back to voters Coronado always eager to have taxes increased for schools and such don't developers have some responsibility to contribute to these communities that they create and profit so greatly from Ponce ability to make whatever contributions the community requires of them as part of the development process and there are many places around the country in which set asides for Parkland at to make an obvious. So what are use an obvious example that is a requirement of developments land for schools, etc. Etc. All of that developers argue adds to the cost of housing and adds to the cost of the element your point is I think you pay for it eventually and sometimes it's harder to get done later rather than sooner but those kinds of issues can all be addressed and whatever the development requirements are that a particular Community establishes for the growth that it's going to have and you would find throughout this metropolitan area of a wide range of requirements on the part of communities some of whom up want to address those issues in a thoughtful way at the front end like you suggest others of whom are more interested in immediate growth and Don't do anything about it until later when it perhaps it cost more colors on the line from Eagan your turn. Go ahead. I'm calling from Eagan and I'm wondering if do you think an organization like the Met Council was responsible for such things as job growth in the Twin Cities can or should be trusted to wisely invest $700 of state and federal funds on Transit problems. Also a second part, how can you assure me as someone who will never use the light rail trolley that you won't use my money to solve purely social and economic problems of the two cities instead of solving Regional Transit problems Regional Transit problems are among the more interesting and I think perhaps more difficult issues that Council along with all the communities face in terms of Designing a transit system and funding that transit system. So it serves the needs of the Suburban communities while at the same time responding to the changing needs of the two Central cities where there is a somewhat more Transit dependent population and I think in this metropolitan area, we've done a reasonably good job of developing Transit plans, which call for the investment of substantial sums of money in the Suburban portion of the Twin Cities metropolitan area parking. I'd facilities a major Transit Hub. In fact in the Dakota county is in the immediate plan or investing a substantial sum of money 95 million dollars over the next two three four years for new buses for the Twin Cities metropolitan area. We have a whole variety of ways in which to provide across Suburban transit services a number of communities in including those in your area run transit systems, which you respond to Suburban needs LRT. Is an issue that has been around for a long time. There is no decision today to build LRT. There is planning going on for the so-called Central quarter, which would take LRT between the two downtowns through the university it cost a lot of money as the caller indicated. It isn't absolutely clear what that does in terms of increase ridership important questions about the impact of LRT on continuing subsidies and assistance for the rest of the transit system have to be asked and it is possible that sometime within the next year or so decision will actually get made as to whether or not an LRT Line is going to be funded or not. Then that'll depend in large part upon whether there's money and what the alternatives are but a fairly extensive and comprehensive planning process is going on. Relative to LRT between the two downtowns. And then I also along of the 35W quarter out of downtown and then to the Bloomington and Beyond LRT is very expensive and there are real questions about whether or not the metropolitan area and Order of the federal government can afford to do it. It wasn't at consol have to sign off on those plans or have they kind of moved past them at console state was very much involved in all of that and the council would certainly be very much involved in the financing plans for LRT. And for any approvals in terms of the financing package is a go-forward eater to the state or to the federal government and the legislature did in 1990 to adopt LRT government's plan. Which involves the council. And the counties in the decisions about the moving ahead on LRT when you get this answer from what you know, so far is the LRT decision and I think this is kind of what he was getting at 2 is that decision going to be made on the basis of the transit ameritz or is it primarily going to end up to be a kind of a jobs program an effort to revitalize the central City's regardless of the merits of the transit merits flrt, I would certainly hope and certainly the council staff work would be done in such a way that we look at both elements of that. You can't do LRT. I don't think without making absolutely certain with the transit impact isn't that it meets a Trenta need there is a related development impact from LRT, which has to be looked at in terms of both impact on a neighborhood or community. As well as the extent to which of any it stimulates development and serves as a Redevelopment tool for a neighborhood and all of those issues are being looked at as a part of making the final decision from Oakdale is on the line with the question. Yes, sir. I've heard rumors of a train system being put in for a former Transit. I was wondering if that was true. And also what other forms of Transportation that you haven't mentioned might be going into effect in the near future will LRT is a form of a train in that it's a fixed guideway system with the smaller Vehicles probably than we think of as a train. There are a lot of other Alternatives including fixed set aside for example for buses or other high-occupancy vehicles to travel on the freeway or on a special route to established for high-occupancy vehicles rubber-tired kinds of vehicles that they could then move around and either downtown or either in some instances, perhaps through neighborhoods. There are as a whole number of activities going on in this metropolitan area now to make it possible to move buses faster and to get them into a neighborhoods and communities that Don't know how serve you see special access ramps at certain freeway entrances where the bus can I move onto the ramp faster than all of us who were sitting behind the lights that control access to the ramps agency high-occupancy vehicle lanes and 1 freeway going west out of the Twin Cities and certainly as they look at LRT and other related Services. We are also in the transportation planners are looking at whether or not high-occupancy vehicle lanes are special set aside lanes for 9 train Vehicles could serve that the demand better or at least as well and died for less money taken out of collar for Minneapolis Joe Lauzon the line. Hello. Hello. Duchess solemn distance from Oxford College for many years and head of the department. I think you are well suited for the assignment the complex's it is what I have been recently reading is it is a development of hospice called a new urbanism architecture of community as a new book by the by edited by Peter Katz on this end. The argument of the book is that we need to do more planning in terms of relating every housing development to do the nurturing of Village centers throughout the whole Metro Urban region, and I know that many of your comments already you have made reference to the relationship between Transportation Planning and it's Back. Neighborhoods. I am wondering if you are if you have had occasion to do get the to know about this so-called new urbanism Gordon architecture of community within limits and there's a fair amount in the new blue print documents at the consult as I've indicated is about to adopt which really gets out that in fact, if you look at the sections in there is that relates to Transit and transit services and linking up the communities and ways in which make it possible to develop a community centers and which can be effectively served by transit the buses or whatever. The appropriate vehicle is and have access to those services in ways in which get us away from our total dependence on the automobile. You'll find a lot of language in the blueprint that talks about that that recognizes that as an important way in which the development and Redevelopment of this metropolitan area. Take place. The real challenge now is to take those are good ideas, though, sensible ideas and look for opportunities to translate them into specific action and try some demonstration efforts and different places around the metropolitan area as we invest in infrastructure and other resources work with communities trying to accomplish some of that and you begin to see some of that in the transit centers and other related kinds of development things that are on the drawing board for future investment Margaret from Cannon Falls is on the line with a question question about a young couple with a current income between 24 and 30000 in is there is two at what point do you rent or buy that you know what you did to make that decision and if the decision would be smarter to buy how much wood Back to pay in the metro area. And at what point could they afford what area maybe could they afford with your old Housing Finance Agency had on here where there are lots of neighborhoods in the Twin Cities metropolitan area both Suburban as well as Central City where there is affordable housing in good shape available to folks with incomes in the 20 to $24,000 range in the Housing Finance Agency has programs like that and would be a good source of information for that. The rent to buy question is a interesting one that people always asking in fact, I think last Saturday's Minneapolis newspaper. I had some information on that my response to people on that has always been you should buy when you have some sense that there's enough stability in your life that you're going to live someplace so you can play out the transaction cost and ways Which makes sense that you found something that meets your needs getting back to this investment question your housing needs and you don't expect to make a killing on it in the 90s and work with the lenders Mortgage Bankers and others to really work your way through the cost of numbers and relationship but your income and you know, the standards there are around 28% or so of income going to mortgage payments depends in part upon the other loans and the credit issues ETC but there are certainly lots of opportunities for affordable Housing Home Ownership all throughout the the metropolitan area both the suburbs as well as Central City and there are lots of places and what you can go to get the information about programs including the Housing Finance Agency. They don't necessarily have to make a king's Ransom to buy a No, not at all. I know you talked about earlier interest rates are now at a point, even though they've gone up in the last few months that makes it more affordable than it certainly has been in many times in the in the last 10 or 15 years John for Minneapolis has a question for Jim solemn hello for the essential quarter has compared to the cost of adding one lane to 494 from what's a the airport to Eden Prairie or from downtown to Burnsville at in the context of the last part of your question the LRT cost for the central quarter Capital cost that is a show up in the draft Eis is about 474 million dollars a busway cost about 217 million dollars. It terms of that same stretch of road the operation and maintenance costs are pretty close to the same in terms of busway & L R T 153 million dollars or thereabouts, but it's the initial construction cost that are substantially higher for LRT than for the bus way. I don't know what the number would be for the other quarter that you talked about. I don't know if that's ever been computed. If it has I haven't seen it regular question. Could you please discuss the impact of the Metropolitan stability active? So they act proposed by representative Myron orfield Minneapolis on housing in the Twin Cities and contrast that with the blueprint that the council currently drafted to in terms of the housing issues that you just got to stop the program and I'll hang up listen to your answer. Thank you represent refills proposal of the last legislative session. Would have the console set some fairly specific objectives for achieving certain affordable housing goals, I buy communities and then the council use some of its powers to make that happen but represented warfel. I think also properly recognized the need for a dollars and resources to get that done those who were opposed to it or at least weren't as enthusiastic about it. As others were more concerned about the regulatory element of that what the council proposes to do in the draft blueprint as it now exists. I think he has many of the same kinds of things that were in representing Warfield Bill. He probably wouldn't agree that it goes that are one degree that it goes as far as it needs to go, but it's to develop some very specific. Criteria for what communities have to do to use that criteria in evaluating the progress of communities and meeting both the life cycle needs which means a mix of housing for new young families as well as the elderly and affordable housing objectives. And then using the resources that the council has including the ability to evaluate performance in relationship to receiving certain dollars that are available through the console or certain dollars over which console has some review Authority and access to certain services at the console of provides if that's the final decision. So there's a lot of similar elements. I think the big difference is in the extent to which there is additional regulation. Now the council along with the variety of other folks will be looking at the need for resources. Do all of this in the council recognizes and it's blue print documents and need to have reset resources and talks about the need for a regional development or Enterprise fund which can be used both for revitalization as well as a new production and that the sort of an effort will go on between now and the next legislative session in terms of trying to have a complete package of proposals ready low. Income of a housing unit is lost to development or construction, whatever shut that shit that unit be replaced in a community. Where at where it is or should that be moved somewhere else to to encourage disbursement of low income housing. Will that issue has been the subject of substantial debate in the last several sessions of the legislature Minneapolis-Saint Paul and Duluth have a one-for-one replacement requirement in which the law did say had to be replaced in the community which lost the housing I believe that Is altered in the last session to allow that the replacement to go beyond the community that lost of the individual unit housing. I think it's important to understand the overall Supply question for this metropolitan area for the Long Haul which is we have lots of units of housing in the Twin Cities metropolitan area. They aren't all in the right place and the aren't all of the right kind but Supply is not the problem of the 90s affordability appropriateness condition and quality at cetera are important issues for the 90s and certainly Supply on the growth Fringe were new stuff is being constructed isn't it is an issue, but I think we have to be very careful that we don't get into a replacement game which adds to the supply in an inappropriate place and perhaps of the wrong kind of unit carry is on a line. She's called. Sir, Lora calling from Minneapolis. Hello. I'm calling I guess it's somewhat along the same lines, except I live in South Minneapolis. You're like streak? We have literally hundreds of thousands of wonderful houses in our neighborhood. I know a very few people who plan to move or want to move notwithstanding the year. Job, we get from the media periodically on what goes on in the neighborhood, but that's not really my question. It seems to me that the Metropolitan council could best use every dime. It could get together to recreate jobs in town. And thus make the people in a hard ball for low-income housing rather than all this quibbling with the suburbs. And it seems to me it's in the southern states to do that too. I hear very little about the impact on Transportation that would have ruined your purview. Well as she's appropriately pointed out job development is an important part of what has to happen in the two Central cities. And in in the all of the clothes in suburbs job development economic development is in a very important part of the components of the blueprint at the console is about to adopt it is in fact the Cornerstone of this blueprint effort in terms of making certain that we do the right kinds of things with investment reinvestment regulatory activities and all the kinds of things that you can mention to make certain that We get the job growth and continued job growth in the two Central cities as well as in the suburb. Now, there are real problems with land availability and all that goes with that in terms of assembling big chunks of land to do the kinds of things that can be down at least in some Suburban communities and there's some discussion of some substantial discussion of that issue in the blue print the document as well, but there is no question, but what that is a key issue and that the council is committed to using its resources and the infrastructure pieces that it now has a responsibility for the respond very directly to that problem. Will the central City's get priority in that planning process other words. If you got a choice between the tracking jobs to suburban community in the Twin Cities versus Asuna Minneapolis-Saint Paul the Minneapolis-Saint Paul get preference. Oh, I don't know that that's a piece of what the plan calls for an Most instances it's not an either-or kind of a situation because they're frequently aren't the kind of activity that works in the Central City may not work in the suburbs of the real issue is to make certain that the mixed tool is tools is appropriate for both locations and that we respond to the needs of both locations with that appropriate set of tools and I don't have time for at least one more call are very briefly Mike your online from Plymouth in the planning process that takes place in regard to highways. I live in Plymouth and I've watched the 394 development all the way through but it's now in less than a year after completion hopelessly obsolete. Is it that the Traffic growth has exceeded what was initially planned for or was it is it indicative of an inadequate planning process and I'll hang up and listen to think probably neither. The one thing the highway planners would tell you is you can't build your way out of congestion that if you build it they will come and we'll continue to drive one person in one car. And if you look at that quarter, there were lots of things done there to encourage and facilitate the carpooling high-occupancy Vehicles Etc. So I think the traffic planners and those are the folks at. I would say that that is probably not an example of a bad planning. It's simply an example of what happens every time you build a facility regardless of how big you build it and whatever capacity of build it for all of us folks who like to drive by ourselves and our own cars are going to fill it up which is why We have to look at other kinds of types of facilities other kinds of Trance at opportunities to make certain that we don't just rely on highways to solve our problem and 15 seconds given all the authority of the Met Council has the broad their purview should be elected as a time to start electing American Consul that's question that I don't have anything to say about I think gay if we don't make this kind of restructuring work, we being all of us together who are involved in that that issue will probably be asked again in a few years, but for now the legislature decided to do it this way and our job is to make it as successful as we can.