(00:00:00) Six minutes past 12:00 o'clock the forecast for the state of Minnesota calls for a partial partly cloudy skies through the afternoon with high temperatures today on the nippy side mid 30s to the low 40s tonight increasing cloudiness and fairly chilly with overnight lows tonight ranging from 15 degrees in Northwestern Minnesota to the low 30s in Southeastern Minnesota. Tomorrow rain and snow is forecast for the state with high temperatures in the 30s Twin Cities, Cloudy Skies through the afternoon, although it should start to clear off a little bit high temperature near 40 then tonight. There is a 20% chance for some rain or snow developing overnight with a low around 30 rain or snow is likely in the Twin Cities tomorrow with a high temperature in the mid to upper 30s right now. St. Cloud with a cloudy Sky 35° Rochester cloudy and 37 Fargo cloudy and 33 Sioux Falls with a cloudy Sky 40 Duluth cloudy and 31 and the Twin City temperature is 37 and skies are cloudy. Well today of course is a national day of mourning in America declared by President Nixon era President Clinton rather to honor the memory of former President Richard Nixon about 32,000 people reportedly had been reviewing Nixon's casket lying in state at the Nixon Library in Yorba Linda California this evening at six o'clock. Our time a funeral will be held for the late President Nixon's longtime friend. Billy Graham will preside and as you heard President Clinton will be delivering a eulogy will be broadcasting the funeral live here on Minnesota Public Radio. Our coverage will begin at six o'clock this evening since President Nixon died Friday night. We have heard from dozens of experts about the Nixon legacy today as we said, we would like to hear your thoughts on Richard Nixon and his legacy. What do you think? History will have to say about Richard Nixon. Give us a call with your thoughts and comments Twin City area number is 2276 thousand 2276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, the number would be one eight hundred two four two 28282276 thousand or 1-800 to for to to 828 a special talk of Minnesota addition here on midday our subject today. The Richard Nixon legacy. Lots of callers already lined up. Let's go to our first caller with some comments. Hi. Hi, (00:02:15) how you doing? Just fine. My name is Mark and I'm calling from st. Paul. Yes, sir. And the thing I want to say is that I do believe probably the way history has been remembered in America as a President Nixon and I'm not saying that I agree with this at all. As far as the way he should be remembered. I think that he's going to be remembered probably the as a president who was overall good and the reason I think that's going to happen is because I look at examples like Teddy Roosevelt who was the first guy to bring us into Nicaragua? He was really was one of those guys with masculinity problems had to try to prove himself as a man by being a big game hunter and he was known to said one time one point of his in his tenure as president that our country could really use a good war in, you know, overall. He I think he was overall not that great of a person more of an anti populist and then I would like to see a president be and you know, I think about Nixon the Watergate thing I think about when people were protesting the Vietnam War, I remember a couple of years ago some some tapes came out. It's documented that he made some real anti-semitic statements talked about taking Union people Teamsters. Beat the hell out of the protesters and said something like isn't this just a Jewish thing. Isn't this just a bunch of Jews getting together trying to oppose our policy and you know, I don't think that kind of thing is going to make it into the history (00:03:58) books. What about Clinton and President Clinton's comments today that we should judge Richard Nixon by his accomplishment not just as his accomplishments rather not just his mistakes. (00:04:09) Well, I think that we should judge him by his accomplishments in the sense that you know, we have to recognize what he did. That was good. But we cannot, you know as Americans everything that is done by our government by by you know, by people representing us as a country that assimilates historically into our identity and we have to recognize that and embrace that is something that happened and if it's not good we have to still recognize it and realize that we can have to learn from these things and go on. So we have to we have to realize, you know, we had a racist in there as president and we had a guy who and you know, I mean a lot of the a lot of our foreign policy throughout history including Clinton's right now his policy right now. We're blockading. Katie I mean, you know, we're supposed to be helping in our state. We're not helping them one bit and continuing to blockade right now. All that's going to do is starve. The people people have to you know, I mean, it's I'm here in this on public radio, you know people if they're lucky they can kill a goal but the goal might be infected and they might die from eating the goat over there. And you know, we still have races foreign policies towards countries like Haiti other countries (00:05:32) Vietnam and you think Nixon Nixon's policies were part of that pattern. (00:05:37) Oh definitely definitely and I think that the 12 years before Clinton was a part of that pattern and if our country hadn't gone so conservative we might have gotten a good guy in like Harkin or even Jerry Brown instead of Quentin. (00:05:51) Okay. Thanks Mark. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your call. Let's take another listener with some thoughts on Richard Nixon's Legacy. Hello. (00:05:57) Hi. Hi. My name is Harry. I'm calling from Plus, yes. Well, I don't have anything nice to say about Richard Nixon either. Why not? Well, I mean if people you know, I think you know, I don't want to say that those those people that don't how'd it go? Don't remember history if we're condemned to repeat the make the same mistakes, you know, you know something like that but but anybody who's read the Pentagon papers who is vaguely aware of Nixon's enemies list. He perverted the presidency. He perverted the office and he did terrible terrible things and he you know, he the Vietnam War. I remember I was at a demonstration in 1969 and there were maybe half a million people out there and Nixon wouldn't come out and and then and then reading all about the Pentagon papers and Seymour Hersh wrote a book the price of power and it basically concerned concerned Kissinger and the White House and this is a matter of public. Great. I mean everything that Nixon did is out there and and and and to make it a national holiday. It's just very sad to me very very sad to me because because he is a you know, I'm not going to teach my kids that you know, basically that anything positive came out of that time. I think many many people suffered and he lied and (00:07:25) what about China though and Russia and you know, what is thought today to be a pretty forward-looking welfare reform package revenue-sharing pretty Progressive environmental policies. (00:07:39) Well, I guess you know, I'm one of those people that think those things would have happened anyway, and they really pale in front of I mean, if if you read about you know, what you know what they did with Ellsberg when he put out the Pentagon papers, you know, how they had these enemies list. I mean this this was very they had wiretap all over the place II just think that he perverted democracy and every possible way he could and (00:08:06) he let me ask you this here. He one of the things I remember from the Nixon days was that the response often was well, you know, it's not substantially different than anything that's gone on before referring to past presidents and presumably future presidents. How do you what do you think about that? (00:08:23) Well, I think that that I think he did more of it and he was more blatant about it. I think today, you know, if I mean, I remember a picture of Nixon with Bebe rebozo Now I think it was in life and they were all wearing sunglasses. And I mean they all look like Hitman. I mean it was like right out from the mafia and I'll never forget that picture. It was kind of the people he hung out with and this was the president, you know, I sure that Clinton has some skeletons and and anybody that gets elected anybody that's in politics, you know, probably has you know, they have they have an ego and they go out there and have could have done some bad things. I think Nixon, you know, Nixon was just not a good person and I think he, you know to have an understanding of history and what he got away with and what he did and I feel very sorry for this country that we had to endure, you know that time from 68 to 72 and then we were stupid enough to re-elect him, you know, so I think there's some truth to what you say, but Make this a national day of mourning. I mean, I'm you know, I remind people of the Phil ochs song and it's Phil ochs that had a great ballot to about Richard Nixon and if they can they can dig that up and remember some of some of his legacy that way. Thank you, sir. Okay, (00:09:55) let's take another caller with some thoughts on the Nixon legacy. Hi. (00:09:59) Hi, this is Carl from Fridley as Carl and I had a I got I guess I had a couple comments. I've kind of viewed this thing. I'm a 27 year old and I was obviously not very alert back in the days when Nixon was elected, but this kind of brought me back about a year ago. I had a grandfather that passed away from a stroke after about the same amount of time in intensive care and I guess I guess I've been dealing with that on a personal level to because it was very similar the way he passed on but I guess it would it's also pointed me out is just the circus view that the surrounded the whole thing and not to not to put light on his Is his good deeds and his bad Deeds, but I'm basically for the first few days. Everybody was saying boy. I hope he can get better. The doctors can do everything. They can after all he's only 81 and I thought you know, this is a this is a natural end for somebody that's in their 70s or 80s. (00:10:53) Yeah, and I guess I was (00:10:56) that I guess I was kind of just kind of sat back and was amused by the whole thing. But I guess I just wanted to say I'm glad he's had an end and it was not violent or inFAMOUS end at least kind of kind of went out quietly. So I guess that's what I had to say. So thanks for your (00:11:14) comments. But let's take another caller with some thoughts on Richard Nixon. Hi. (00:11:18) Hi, this is Lydia from Minneapolis. Yes, and I just wanted to share My Views that I mean, I I'm in the same age group as well as collar. So I'm like about 26 and I hadn't had much exposure to Nixon except for the Watergate things and all that. (00:11:35) That's well. You were only what about six years old when that happened to so (00:11:38) right but you know, that's the things that are very remembers in our country and I just I went to China for a trip and I realized well I Nixon and visited there and he brought them a sequoia tree and they had it there and just they had this ultimate respect for him and I realized that this country had such great respect for our president that we didn't have and I was really Amazed by that and that kind of changed my viewpoint of him and I started gaining a lot more respect for him because of that. (00:12:13) Do you think do you think the caller earlier and indicated that probably that opening to China would have come anyway with or without Richard Nixon. What's your sense? (00:12:22) I'm not so sure about that because you know the view that China the Chinese don't always respect our presidents and you know, it would have to have been a person that they respected a lot and that's not necessarily something that would have been being it might have happened but it would have happened a lot later probably and things would have been a lot different because of that. (00:12:45) Thank you Lydia. Thank you. Bye this is special talk of Minnesota addition here on midday. And today we are hoping to hear from you to get your assessment of Richard Nixon's Legacy. We've heard from lots of experts and insiders in the rest, but haven't really heard too much from those of you who listen. So here's your chance course, we're going to be providing live coverage of the funeral at six o'clock this afternoon. So we hope you can join us for that. Excuse me. President Clinton is expected to among others. To deliver a eulogy if you would like to join the conversation. Let me give you the phone numbers. You might wait for about five minutes before some of the lines clean or clear rather 2276 thousand is the Twin City area. Number two two seven six thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities to join the conversation. You can reach us toll-free at 1-800-321-8633. (00:13:33) And I guess in some ways made my view of Nixon has changed since he has passed away. Why is that? Well, at first I think I had more, you know people do they tend to think more positively of people or a passive vents or whatever and then I think now I'm just more realistic of him, you know with his accomplishments that he had, you know, the the China and the StarTalk treaties, I believe and or Russia, but also his Progressive policies that you have mentioned earlier like the earned income credit. With started and Clean Water Act was passed and food stamps for pass underneath Nixon at the same time. I think he was a criminal when it came down to it. He wasn't a crook he didn't steal but he was a criminal when it came down to Watergate and just listening to the people on the new shows. Not only NPR but the TV channels the he didn't have very much Integrity as some of the like whatever was best for Richard Nixon was that's where he wants and so he that created his own downfall. He kind of didn't self in a lot of ways because in Watergate he could have came forward to the nation and in the beginning and saved his administration. (00:15:01) Do you think President Ford was correct in pardoning Richard (00:15:03) Nixon? You know, I've been think actually I thought about that. You know, he, you know, I was telling a friend the other day. He Ford pardoned the Vietnam draft Dodgers and then he pardoned Nixon afterwards as we he pardoned. I think the draft Eis is so that he could pardon Nixon down the line and I think I guess I feel that you know, yeah, that was all right, I guess I go along with it. He which II never really heard Nick's and I think that I can remember just really met. He did obstruct Justice. You know, he he did do prevalence and that's what brought her down. (00:15:50) Well, thanks for your call. Appreciate your comments. Welcome. Let's hear from another listener. Hi. Yes. Yes, sir. Your turn. (00:15:57) Hi. I'd like to talk about Nixon's paranoia. It seems to me that his paranoia is what got him into trouble all along through his career. It was early in his first congressional race. He ran against a woman who accused of being a communist sympathizer the Alger Hiss case and definitely with Watergate. I mean, he virtually said to his people you go out and find me any dirt and dig up anything you can on these people because I'm not sure I'm going to win this election and that's what got him into trouble and I believe that's the legacies going to leave I voted in 1968 in the first my first presidential election and it was interesting to me to note that he was elected on the fact that he was going to end the war but he escalated it. (00:16:45) Did you vote for or against (00:16:46) him? I voted against him because I didn't believe him at that point and I just I just see it kind of interesting also to listen to people who he was against and who were as against him for example interviewing McCarthy this morning earlier. After the 68 election in 69 Nixon offered McCarthy an ambassadorship and I've heard that earlier from other people saying that this was kind of his way of apologizing or inviting him to State dinners and fighting formal former foes to stay dinners too kind of apologized and it was clear. He had no friends and that his paranoia got the best of him and I have no respect for the man and the only Legacy that I'm going to remember is his paranoia and more about what he did in Vietnam more than Watergate. (00:17:42) Thanks for your call. Let's take another caller. Hi your turn. Hello. Yes. Go ahead sir. This is Aaron from Litchfield (00:17:51) and I have a feeling that the public is (00:17:53) going to primarily forget the Watergate (00:17:56) incident. We have a tendency to forget those types of incidents if you take a look back. Yes, we have things like Tippecanoe and Tyler too (00:18:04) and some of (00:18:05) Yo, (00:18:05) yo Teapot. Dome (00:18:07) people cannot identify those with the president for the most part and I think we're going to run the same thing with (00:18:12) Nixon even something that's was that big though and got that much publicity. Sure. I think that you know, that (00:18:20) was probably the grossest misapplication of power we have had in the United States other than perhaps on the car to hearings and it has been endemic with Richard Nixon throughout all of his (00:18:32) political career that I know of (00:18:35) I was in California (00:18:36) when it was, you know (00:18:38) in the pink papers were passed out on Helen Douglas and Etc and I've seen it over and over and over again, but I'm afraid that the public (00:18:49) will (00:18:50) forget the attempted usurped (00:18:58) usurpation usurpation, right? That's a tough one. Yeah, (00:19:02) right. (00:19:03) Well, what about all the other things that he's being gimbert given credit for these days. I mean the opening to China of course always seems to top the list but there are there's really a long list of pretty impressive accomplishments. (00:19:15) Yes, sir our and you know those in advance, you know, and those two will pass, you know, if we look 50 years down the line. President Nixon will be remembered is another president and perhaps maybe a hundred years from now. He will be remembered as the you know, as we remember. Let's say Andrew Johnson (00:19:35) was the only one who's brought to, you know, the (00:19:37) impeachment vote came and failed and that Nixon was all right on the brink of it. (00:19:42) Just kind of a footnote as opposed to a major thing. Absolutely. Thank you. Sure. Appreciate your call. Let's hear from another listener. Hi. (00:19:51) Hi, my name is Adam from New Hall and I am also of the generation where I was born right during the Watergate scandal. So I have no personal judgment on him except what I learned from the history books and I think we need to judge him by his total life obviously had 20 some years after the Watergate scandal and I just wanted to say that as a young person. I have not learned a lot about Nixon except currently and I think young people need to learn more about the past few presidents current history is not a Priority in education right now. (00:20:26) They don't teach you much about that in school. (00:20:29) No, not really. I just graduated from high school a few years ago and I cannot remember any much about Nixon or Ford or Carter for that matter. And I think also that this are the United States is has very few Elder Statesman that current president's can turn to for advice and I think that was very important for Clinton as in an inexperienced, uh, foreign policy person that he had someone to turn to like Richard Nixon (00:21:01) and I think we should use our former presidents more rely on them for more more for advice in the rest. (00:21:07) I do think so because they have obviously a rare opportunity only four or eight years to be in the same seat that our current president is in and I think that's very important that we should always use as much resources as possible. (00:21:22) Pretty small Club. Yeah. (00:21:24) Only (00:21:24) thanks for calling him. Thank you other callers on the line with some thoughts about Richard Nixon's Legacy. (00:21:30) Hello? Hello. I would not have called had it not been for your comment to the one of the caller's when you said did we think that the acts that he had committed were any different from a lot of the other presidents past and present that provokes me to thinking about the fact that at the time of the Watergate incidents I was a law student and I remember at the time the discussions that we would be having a very heated discussions and I think that memories are very short as one of your other colors have said President Nixon was one of the few attorneys. If not, the only president who was an attorney during this Century that we have had I may be corrected on that but I don't believe there's been any other person prior to President Clinton who was in sales and attorney President Clinton President Nixon. Well knew what he was getting into and ramifications of it at the time many people are not aware of the fact that even right. Now 67 lawyers were indicted during the hearings and Watergate and the head honcho the head lawyer himself was not indicted nor was he impeached but he was pardoned for any crimes that he might have committed as well as those that had been committed which was really on my thinking unpardonable on the part of President Ford. I don't think that a lot of people are aware of the fact that prior to the Watergate and sins. There were required courses in ethics at many of the law schools in this nation prior to that there had not been but because the profession itself was so appalled at what had happened. They definitely in many of law schools began to call for let's an Ethics courses if you recall Charles Colson who was an attorney who later became an evangelist and I think has worked with prisoners after he did time in prison had been President Nixon's right-hand man one of his right hand people and he had said on a staff I should say that exaggerating there, but he was on the staff and Alton was awesome quoted as having said I would have walked over my grandmother for President Nixon anything that meant getting to the end was the way that unfortunately this very complex this very gifted in many ways brilliant, but unfortunately sad and very much alone man lived his (00:23:44) life a couple quick questions for me. Number one on the pardon. Remember the argument at the time among other things was the man has suffered enough had to leave, you know, the highest office in the land. He's obviously disgraced by pound him into (00:24:01) insensible. I remember and I remember that wasn't it that was one of the things that so many people were saying and my thinking on that was at we live in a democracy. We do not live in a country that has a king or queen. We live in a society that says that we are now we know we're not all equal but we are supposed to be and we are supposed to be held to the standard and I do not believe that we would have The cynicism that has come about in this country to work politicians certainly toward attorneys really in triple fold During the period that has occurred after it Watergate had every American black or white. I happen to be a person of color been able to see that even the president cannot be held above the law but that standard should have been applied. And so I was one of the people that felt yes, if the man if it can be proven that this man knew what was going on. And of course that is the beauty we all know the only reason why he resigned was because he knows Smoking Gun was there and he was told you better resign or be impeached. I think Daniel schorr on public radio. The other day was commenting about the fact that if people could know what many of the Articles of impeachment really were they would be appalled. They would be appalled. So I hope that as this gentleman to callers earlier said to you that you know, these things are going to be forgotten. I hope they're not because we're doomed as he said Someone said to possibly repeat (00:25:26) them. Now. I have one other question for you. You noted that after the Watergate business. They started emphasizing ethics courses in law school. Have you noticed an improvement among the attorneys (00:25:39) or I would have said that was true until the 80s and it's and I'm sorry, I obviously you can see that I'm someone who was in an Unapologetic person of the idealism that existed alongside other things in the 60s and 70s, but I would have said that was true until the 80s prior to the 80s. There were an awful lot of people who were over being trained as attorneys who were saying it is a real duty to give and to prep some of them even found it out of a sense of knowing what had happened with Watergate but during the 80s. I saw something different happening with those that were coming out and that meant I'm going to get mine and the very large increase in those going for the corporate law rather than any of the other areas has been proven I think so. Sickly, so I don't know but I certainly wouldn't think that our general public. Would you think that our general public is more respectful attorneys in recent years. (00:26:31) No comment. Thanks a lot for your call. Thank you. Appreciate it. We are assessing Richard Nixon's Legacy today. Of course today is a been officially declared a national day of mourning in America by President Clinton to honor the former president funeral is being held for Richard Nixon later today, and we're going to be providing live coverage of the Nixon Funeral starting at 6 o'clock our time during this hour special edition of talk of Minnesota. We'd like to hear from those of you listening to get your assessment of the Nixon legacy. We've heard so much from the experts. We thought it would be time to spend at least an hour hearing from those of you who listen to two seven six thousand is the Twin City area. Number two two seven six thousand or if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at 1-800-321-8633. Wait just a couple of minutes before you die. Because all of our lines are busy right now, let's take another caller. Hi. (00:27:27) Hi, this is Harvey from Little Canada. And its I just wanted to to join The Fray here. I wanted to say that I think Richard Nixon was a petty and vindictive man. Probably at his core and evil man. He was he made a concerted effort to subvert the Constitution probably threw the country into the greatest constitutional crisis since the Civil War. (00:27:49) He do you think he set out to do that or did he just kind of stumbled into that? (00:27:53) Well, I think that he considered in from here in the people around him considered information property and the up until the remember the Supreme Court ruling in July of 74 had to turn over the last of the tapes. He was prepared unless there was a unanimous decision by the Supreme Court. He was prepared to ignore the Supreme Court and up until the time the Supreme Court told him and unanimously to turn over those last tapes. He was lying to his own lawyers and his own family. You know, the I think that shows what kind of character the man had he claimed that he never To enrich himself the fact is that he did he handed the government his personal papers and vastly over valued them and you know our president recently had to pay some back taxes. Nixon had to pay something like 300,000 in back taxes and it went too far beyond Watergate. It really makes my blood boil when I hear people say that, you know, the the Nixon Administration did nothing that wasn't done before or after the The Depths to which that Administration sank went far beyond anything that I think we've seen before and or since there was the ITT Scandal there was the use of the IRS for political purposes to nail enemies the plumbers the break into ellsberg's psychiatrists office to try to discredit him. There was the secret bombing of Cambodia by the way, you had a caller that wanted to know a little bit more about history. There's a very good book that should be dug out. It's called Side Show by William shawcross, which really shows the it has to do with the secret bombing and Of Cambodia and it really shows the lengths to which Nixon and Kissinger were willing to go to deceive the American public the thing that stands out about water getting my mind and it was so unnecessary. He had the election locked up in the only had to do was as he did a few days before the election have Henry Kissinger come out and say that peace is at hand that locked up the election recall that Christmas the the heaviest bombing of the war was inflicted on Hanoi the Christmas bombing the destruction of the bach my Hospital. Hmm. These are the things that you don't hear about now. I wish people would remember these things or make an effort to learn about them. You think they (00:29:59) far outweigh. What what good Richard Nixon may have (00:30:02) accomplished vastly outweigh what he would agree that you they talk about the opening of The Doors to China and Russia one could hardly ignore those two (00:30:11) Nations first, we did, you know for a long time (00:30:14) and we'll look where it was getting us and you you it was interesting the comments that the caller earlier made about about her visit to China and how they somehow Nixon there. I think P of the leaders of the of China and the Soviet Union understood and respected Nixon's use of Brute Force. Anyway. All (00:30:36) right. Thanks for your call. Thank you. Appreciate it. Let's hear from another caller. Hi. (00:30:41) Hi, this is Debra and (00:30:42) lesser. Yes Deborah, (00:30:44) and I just I feel like Richard Nixon's whole political career was just unscrupulous and criminal. He started out with Joe McCarthy in the 50s with the witch hunts of for Communists and when he was president, I think he did very just many many unscrupulous things. I'm 40 and I was in college when he resigned and I had many friends who went to Vietnam and I just personally never liked him. But I also feel that he did many things when he was ex-president that were very unscrupulous people make him out to be this great Statesman after he resigned and A couple of years ago Bill Moyers did a show on public TV about the 10 top censored issues in America and one of them was about Richard Nixon being an arms dealer and selling like uniforms to just go in Romania and to just go as one of his good friends and he must have been you know to Tesco is one of the worst tyrants that ever rode Romania. So I just feel like he had this whole Legacy of being unscrupulous and let me (00:31:57) pose this question to you Deborah. Now, one of the things we don't that doesn't get talked about very much but I suppose on the other side of that ledger, you know, 1960 what lost a very close election to John Kennedy. And in fact, there was a there's was at the time and has been since a lot of speculation that Kennedy essentially stole the election through fraudulent means yet Nixon chose not to push for a recount saying at the time That no matter who won that it would be terrible for the country doesn't that indicate a concern for the public good that we don't hear a lot (00:32:31) about you may have had a concern for the public good but I think his ego got in the way of everything. He did it somehow he was paranoid and that he was so egotistical that he used unscrupulous means to to get what he wanted and for me that just colors his whole Legacy. I just I just think that he was (00:32:56) you think what President Clinton was correct and declaring today at National Day of mourning. No, thank you. Appreciate your call. Let's take another caller. Hi. Hello. Yes. Go ahead. (00:33:08) Yeah. I wanted to make a comment. I was lifting one of the morning news shows today and they were interviewing a couple of authors have written extensively on Nixon and one of whom had been his authorized biographer Stephen Ambrose grow a pair. Wrote a three-volume biography of him and they just, you know casually asked him. Well, do you admire the former president and he answered in a very reflexive way? No, I don't in my room as a person and I found that really fascinating that somebody, you know who had spent all the time and probably talk to him very extensively would just you know, quickly and without any reservation answer in that fashion. You know with all of these on the day of the funeral Etc. (00:33:51) Yeah, how do you think history is going to treat Richard Nixon? Let's say let's jump ahead. I think here's a (00:33:56) lot of issues involved. I think one of the things is that we're seeing this kind of instant his history on the cold war that, you know, we're feeling that these people that were rabbit anti-communists or that were, you know, kind of Victor's in the Cold War and I think it's going to take time for things to sort out on that to really know what happened and you know, whether you know, what would have happened to the Soviet Union under different circumstances. I think that's one thing we're seeing and the other thing is, you know, I think We you know that because of Ronald Reagan and the period he was in and that the country has become quite a bit more conservative. Although we have a Democratic president that you know, Nixon is seen as a little bit more of a moderate, you know that he might have been in his time but I think it's going to take a while for things to sort out into for you know, final judgment to be rendered. Thanks a lot for your call, bye-bye. (00:34:54) Now the callers on the line. Hi. (00:34:55) Hi you bet. Oh my goodness. (00:34:59) We don't bite (00:35:01) I had the radio off. So I didn't know what's going on. I guess I'm calling to say that I think that mr. Nixon was a paranoid red-baiting individual guilty of treason against the United States that I think that NPR I think somebody should rather than elicit comments from people who went through some of the experience and comments from people who are too young to have gone through that experience if NPR or someone would pull out some information and read it to the people and actually go over the that whole scenario again, so the people can review The history of it. I don't understand the the Pomp and Circumstance around his death. It said when anybody dies but as far as as honoring him as an elder Statesman, I think that's an embarrassment. I'm well the I agree with one of the prior callers that I think that the reason that people in China. or she felt that people in China respected him more than we do is because we had to go through this process and that the people in China are used to people using by any means necessary to do what they need to do and they respect that and you know, it's I uh, I just I'm just I'm appalled actually, okay. Yeah. Thanks for your call. (00:36:52) Let's take another caller. Hi. (00:36:54) Hello, this is John. And st. Paul. I'm 39 and I became politically aware. I guess when Nixon was becoming president. I agree that this should not be a national day of mourning. I'd like to remember the secret war in Cambodia. I'd like to remember Kent State. I'd like to remember the White House enemies list and the plumbers which went far beyond Watergate. I'd like to remember that Nixon was responsible for our current distrust of government and that there would be no white water without a Watergate. I think we should be watching All the President's Men instead of watching the funeral tonight. (00:37:29) What about the good things he did? (00:37:31) I don't think the amount to a hill of beans compared to the bad things. All (00:37:36) right, one other thought, you know now recognizing a from your Viewpoint that it was an extraordinarily heavy price to pay. But I've heard some people suggest that in a way the problems that were created by Watergate and things like that had a benefit at least in the sense that it gave people American people may be a more realistic view of their (00:38:00) government. That's a possibility. I mean you could you could look at it that way but I think that we really lost a lot through Watergate. We lost a lot of greatness and a lot of trust trust in our government. I really feel we'd be better off without Watergate and that the government would be more effective if Watergate had not (00:38:21) happened. Okay. Thanks for your call. Bye. Let's hear from another listener. Hi, I'm calling from (00:38:27) Duluth. Yes, sir. Always associate the Nixon presidency with the rise of the power of the media in American politics. I think that's what features dorian's and political scientists will point to and I think that's what President Clinton is going to be thinking about when he speaks it. President Nixon Funeral there's no such thing as a presidential president anymore. Nixon was the last of them and we have the media media either to thank for that or condemned for that. (00:38:58) What do you mean by a presidential (00:38:59) president? Well when Nixon was President think about what Nixon looked like when he lined up with foreign leaders or when he gave a press conference, he looked presidential because the presidency was not yet exposed to the intense scrutiny. It is now ever since Nixon. We've picked apart every President Carter Reagan Bush. It's just impossible for the executive branch to make policy anymore without considering the media and that I think will be Nixon's sustaining Legacy. (00:39:34) You think that's good or bad? (00:39:36) I don't know. I think it remains to be seen with the proliferation of talk shows and pundits and political analysts. I'm wondering where it's going to On the future. I think it's a politician's nightmare. I think it might be bad in the sense that you have to do a little arm-twisting and little dealing behind closed doors in order to get things done. But nowadays the media is there they're even behind closed doors at the CIA. So we'll have to wait and (00:40:02) see I think it's kind of an interesting irony given the the next Sunday and the media of course their battles were more well-known. Well documented and your thesis being that in fact Richard Nixon it has in essence made his enemies as powerful as they are today. Exactly. Thanks for your call. All right, let's take another caller. Hi. (00:40:28) Hi. I'm from South Minneapolis. I'd like to say that aside from everything that your previous callers have said and certainly laid out Nixon's Legacy one of the other legacies that you just touched on with your recent comment. Is that what Nixon did for me was to make me into a News Junkie? I remember running downstairs to get the morning paper to see what they'd found out most recently about Watergate and started getting involved with common cause at the time and it was the same time. I discovered All Things Considered and now I am addicted to NPR because of suddenly having my naivety Stripped Away and needing to to really know and when for myself as to what's going on in my government, (00:41:14) do you remember back in you? Can you take yourself back to that time what it was kind of like a soap opera in a way wasn't (00:41:22) it was and I had been active in and I still am active in local issues and in local politics and to see this stuff all acted out in front of our very eyes and see how some of these institutions were were being revealed as how they worked was. Just amazing. I mean it was it was better. Have been a soap opera to every morning pick up the paper and see what Woodward and and his partner had in uncovered the night before I went. Finally everybody else piled on he's incredible lengths to which this man's Administration was trying to cover up what he had done in the incredible things. They did (00:42:03) you think if other administration's were subjected to the intense scrutiny that the Nixon Administration was right at the end there that they'd have similar (00:42:11) problems. I think there's there's likely that there's some kind of problems because power corrupts, you know, and big power corrupts and a large way and I think we're seeing some of this is where reading some of the books that have come out on the Kennedy administration and the Johnson Administration and I'm sure we'll see it as we learn more about what happened in the inside of the Reagan and the Bush Administration. I think that then that's why I'm saying it has just helped uncover my naivete about how government works you'd like to think. It was all perfect and piece. Green, but it isn't thanks pal. You're welcome. (00:42:47) Let's take another caller. Hi. Hello. Yes, sir. (00:42:50) Yes. My name is John. I'm from Crosby. Yes, John. I have a couple of comments. I'd like to make a watched quite a few of the talk shows regarding a President Nixon and I guess most of the emphasis on Watergate and my I have a problem with that is you know is contempt for the Constitution was pretty well known and that was bad enough. But my opinion has worsened was Vietnam he campaign in one the basis of the plan to end the war and of course he obviously had no plan other than the bomb Vietnam into the Stone (00:43:29) Age. What about the whole Vietnamization policy and because we called it at the time wasn't that when that constitute kind of the essence of his plan. (00:43:37) Well, I suppose you could call it a plan, but I obviously didn't Of course, he pursued the deadly course and other for years and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of casualties. And of course finally was dragged Kicking and Screaming from Vietnam and of course a constitution survived, but many many thousands of American boys and Vietnamese people died. And I and I just think that we're most people seem to overlook that and and I just find that an (00:44:16) Abomination do you think if if as soon as Nixon world was elected in 1968 if he would have said, okay, we're leaving Vietnam right now. We're out of here and really pull the troops out. Do you think that he would have been able to pull off the the opening to China just two years later and work out a major arms reduction agreement with the Russians just a couple years later. (00:44:42) Oh, I don't see why not. I We went out I think I think that I don't really see the great connection there. I just think that the president has to do what's right for our people and I just think that there are a lot of parents who don't have sons anymore. A lot of women who don't have husbands and kids who don't have Dad's because of that stupid for years that was totally unnecessary and I and I would hate to go to my grave with that on my (00:45:10) conscience. Thank you, sir. You're welcome. Let's take another caller (00:45:15) High number of your callers have referred to the opening of China. My recollection. Is that China actually approached us if I recall it was over a ping pong game. So I guess I'm not it's not real clear to me that Nixon did a whole lot except take advantage of a situation that was presented to us. (00:45:36) Well, I think no I'm not I'm not up to my history on this perfectly. But my recollection was that Henry Kissinger made a secret trip to shine on a kind of They the skids greased then they so they arranged for the ping-pong team and all of that and and eventually Nixon himself went over I think is what happened. (00:45:55) Well, you could be right I bet that was my only (00:45:59) comment. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye. Let's hear from another caller. Hi. (00:46:04) Hi. I'd like to come from a little bit different perspective on this. Yes, you know, I think everyone who's been calling has there's been some truth in every single thing that has been said on the program and ultimately I think even after history starts writing about him. I think people are going to be talking about the man and his motives and the paranoia and all these different things that made made him who he was and I think if you look at it, he was kind of there in that time of our history for a specific reason, but what stuck out through all of this was the personal To the man was his he tended to feel so strongly about his family and his his love for his wife in the passing of his wife. I think of anything that stuck out in the past year was after he lost her and she was a tremendous woman, I believe and his family was a tremendous family to put up and listen and all these things that have gone on and now and through the next coming years. We'll be hearing these very things. I mean, obviously when you're in public life, you are open and your private life is open to everyone in the scrutiny. But I mean, they must be some tremendous people to have still stood by his side and have gone right straight through this and I think he grieved quite a bit for his wife in the and the love that was there did show through on that (00:47:39) you think he changed over the years or do you think he always had that kind of relationship with his With his wife (00:47:44) family. I think what I saw I'm 44 and from from what I had seen as as I was in my 20s, when a lot of this was going on with Watergate and and that and my husband was in Vietnam. I don't I think he did change over the years all of us change as we become older. We look back there are things maybe that that have had stayed the same but I think his going back and being out of private life or you know out of the public life into the private life, I think and then with the illness of his wife and everything. I think he got a chance to maybe or at least I don't know if I'm wrong but from how I kind of the different things I've read and watched. I think he had a little bit more of a Change of attitudes may be on some of the things in his life. Maybe they could have been differently. I know in public in public life for you get into power in Washington DC is not as nice of a place maybe as as we all as individuals here looking at Washington, you know, you see one thing but what goes on and what works behind the scenes is totally different we and I don't know I just think it at the end there, you know, this is going to go on and people are going to discuss this. I don't believe either that he should be blamed and take the whole blame for Vietnam. That was something that was inherited by previous administrations and and back that will Guan all these discussions, but he he still was a human being like all of us and in the end results. I believe he paid he paid a great price by leaving office the way he did and I don't feel that he was a was guilty of treason against the Restitution or anything if he had been against the Constitution, he would not have left Washington. All right. (00:49:42) Okay. Thanks a lot for your comments All right, we have time for at least one more our caller. Hello? (00:49:47) Yes. Hello. My name is Mike. I'm in South Minneapolis. And it seems that most of your callers have presented fairly negative opinions of Nixon's Legacy and I would share that to and the thing that disturbs me the most is that how we're taking this day to to honor him or mourn him or Revere him in the kind of message that sends to the younger people in our society considering how upset and concerned we are in this country about lawlessness and lack of respect for authority and our elders and the things we're trying to change to make this country better. And here we are taking a day off or at least some people are to to to look back and in some cases mourn Nixon it bothers me. I think there's a there's really a problem when we (00:50:34) he wasn't convicted convicted. Of any crimes he is a former president don't we owe that to former presidents? (00:50:40) Well, I'm not someone who'd kind of follows convention that just because he was a president that we have to honor him, especially considering his legacy. He wasn't convicted. He was pardoned. I understand that but just look at all the comments you've heard for the past hour predominantly looking at him as having been a real negative (00:50:59) person in but on the other hand, you know, 32,000 people stood out in the rain and out in California to pay their respects and so on and what am I pointed being that as a nation forgetting about our individual thoughts about his about Nixon the politician and our political views and so on doesn't the nation 0822 former presidents at least to set one sided one day aside honor. (00:51:23) Well, I'm not a vet opinion. I kind of agree with one of your previous callers who felt that maybe we should take the day off to look at all the all the President's Men and kind of look at what can go wrong and what damage you can do by not being honest and living up to Your Authority as you should that's my opinion. I know other people probably feel that he did some good things and that's one good thing about our country is that you're entitled to to act on what you believe in what you feel but my opinion is that he doesn't deserve a day I'm fact I'm upset that I can't even get my mail today because of the fact that it's a day for (00:51:54) him right? Thanks Mike. I appreciate your call. Let's let's get one more quick comment. Hi. Hi very briefly. (00:52:01) Yes, I I hope I'm not hearing what I feel I'm hearing from you. I feel first of all that the longer I listened the more you're directing your questions from a personal level like you are defending the man and I hope that's not true. I hope I'm mistaken. I think the man does not deserve this kind of a holiday or attention nor did the bobbitt's or any of the other horrible things that have taken Ways that the media seems to be in control (00:52:38) of we've got a run and I don't mean to cut you off, but we do have to go and no I wasn't trying to direct anybody in any direction. Thanks for calling in. Those of you who've called in with your comments and questions. We are unfortunately out of time always interesting to hear from listeners on subjects like this. We're going to be providing live coverage of the next and funeral at six o'clock this evening. So we hope you can join us through the afternoon and thanks again for calling in. Thanks for joining us Gerry. I can hear hope you can join us tomorrow for midday. An hour of issues arts and entertainment each day on Fresh Air. This is Terry Gross reminding you to tune in Monday through Saturday at three hear on the news and information station of Minnesota Public Radio knnow 91.1 FM. This is Canada video 91.1 FM and Kinder W. 1330 A Minneapolis Saint Paul the Twin Cities news and information station.