Who's this past summer and we can talk a little bit about that. Although I understand that there is a trial going on that would make you reluctant to say some things about about it. But the basic Trust of it is the County Attorney concluded after a lengthy investigation several months anyway, but there was no basis for charging you with any with any criminal violation with the way of prostitution investigation was handled against the earlmont. But the actions that you took during investigation did prop the mayor to issue a rather sharp reprimand of you and the rebuke of you. I wonder if you might first of all offer your views on whether you think that was justified in the end and how you feel about what the mirror said.Well, I did it's not for me to make the that fight decision as to whether it's Justified or not. The mayor looked at the evidence and made a decision clearly doing the in that one portion investigation. I as I've indicated earlier. I lost my cool. I got angry and I offered up some information that I should not have in terms of what was going on in our case with the Tom Foley. This was the case where somebody allegedly had hired him is it made the allegation that he had also been involved in some inappropriate behavior? And that was that allegation was not substantiated then like Although you gather a lot of information is not substantiated knows best occasions. You also have to have the Ability to contain that information within yourself and I was I lost my cool Aaron and I would agree that that was inappropriate. I hope well, you know it's budget time and we're asking for more police officers and certainly we need his support in order to obtain them some there been calls and some quarters of one of the newspaper, said that you ought to resign if you given any thought to that. Well, it's it's kind of an interesting environment that I function and you know what the allegation that I did wrong was made by the news media and the allegation or the suggestion. I resign was made by the news media, but I didn't get any of that from the important people those being those people who don't work for the news media that was generated by the news media and it's been pretty much of a news news event. I think rather than do you feel that your reputation is intact? After all of the stuff that came out. Well, I don't think I'll ever be the same person. I don't think you could spend a nine or 10 months of intense scrutiny with a lot of allegations that even as a proposed were identified as being on substantiated his that hurt you personally. I think it's hurt my family very much. Yes. The mayor claimed in his in his letter that you were sort of arrogant and I handed in dealing with the county attorney's investigation was at a accurate interview. Well, hi. There were there was clearly some invasiveness on my part and there's a there's a lot of baggage that I carried into this investigation, which I don't think I'll share with the with you or with anyone else, but I went over the issues with the mayor and he made a judgment and that as far as I'm concerned that so closed issue talking with Police Chief William mccutchan from the city of Saint Paul. And the time is one minute before noon. Cheap McCutchen from st. Paul is with us and we will open up the telephone lines here unless you put some questions to him if you like in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Mary, the phone number is 227-6002 276 thousand the Twin Cities elsewhere in the state of Minnesota one 800-652-9700. He has to leave a little early today. He has to leave at about a quarter to 1 or 10 to 1 something like that. So we thought we get started with him a little bit early. Let me ask you about the investigation that you were involved in here. Is it common for the chief to even be aware of the number of Investigations that are going on today have a role in any specific one? I'm just trying to understand what what relationship is involved there. Or I think it really depends upon these Chief Styles. Some cheese are more involved. I'm sure than others depends upon the size of the department depends upon. What is the climate in which you function as a as a chief law enforcement officer? I think that if you look at our department historically the chief has been a person who's involved in investigations that has lessened. I think during my Administration simply because of volume of paperwork has increased to the point that just simply can't keep up with everything going on that goes on and see what happens you begin to begin to participate by exception of those cases, which you classify as unusual occurrences or cases which have and your judgment some Extenuating circumstances you may have more knowledge of them. Then you would in the routine case. We run about 20 20 mm part 1 investigations on an annual basis is simply impossible for any one person. I think to be aware of all the nuances that take place. So they must have been some things involved in the mud Pettit case that you are particularly aware of which caused you to pay some attention to it. Then I think you need to look at the issue of prostitution that we were not investigating any single person. We were looking at the larger issue of prostitution in St. Paul. And we did conclude I the ARP aspects of that investigation in March of 1988. Are we then published a report on our findings during that period of time and we we came up with a report which covered the nature of the prostitution problem in St. Paul that included the asanas that we had raided and the things that we found in the prostitution that takes place in saunas. We looked at the outcall service that is a call services where you make a telephone call and as a result of that you are able to retain the services of a of a partner for the evening at a price and then we looked at Street prostitution. And of course, that's the key issue for the department and it wasn't 88 and where is an 88 in 187. And that was where we spent most of our resources. We also looked at at the bar prostitution in the in the time that we made the arrest and we were looking at bar prostitution in the loop area. We had a particular focus on a bar that was alleged to be operating prostitutes drugs or guns number things were moving to that bar. Let's move on to a listener questions and I was trying to continue on with us three minutes past the hour. Go ahead. Please your own with yeast infection like to say that I live in the city of Saint Paul and I feel that as a result of take McCutcheon and Saint Paul police department. It is one of the safest and best cities in the United States to live in and I just like to thank you. Thank you very much. I'll pass that on to the men and women who do such good work for us. All right, we'll take your question next to all the cheapest listening to Java Coffee know that the NeverEnding battle and wondering about the rumors of gangs and what are the problems that young for having that you can front and I'll hang up and listen to the answer. Okay, the day gang issue is a clearly an issue with a it is in st. Paul now and I think it's one of the issues of the future. What we're seeing is a migration of people into the Twin City area for the purpose of primarily for the purpose of selling drugs and it is pretty clear to us that the income from sale of drugs is creating opportunities for gangs from other parts of the country to come to St. Paul, but there is a good market place for drugs in the in the Twin City area. I think that there's one other aspect in terms of gang. So so we do have some games we have the Bloods and and I just don't remember all the names that we have. We have some family structures in st. Paul that are beginning to emerge from local used simply because they need to do that to protect themselves. We're also of the belief that we're going to see the emergence of gangs in the Southeast Asian populations. We don't have the communications ability with that population that we do with some of the other minority groups, but the clearly there is that's a future danger. We think as we look at what's going on in the city of st. Paul. Almost all of the structure that we see is dope related. That is the need to organize in order to to have the right if you will to sell drugs on the street corners or in the in the neighborhood. I think Saint Paul is done a really fine job and controlling the gang activity and doing some work on controlling drugs and we've done that because we've had strong support from the community. I think as you know, the the intersection on Selby Avenue have been of particular problem to us, but we are also getting very very strong support from that same community in terms of doing something that clearly sends a message to the drug dealers that we don't want you in St. Paul. I think we're beginning to get that message across to the people who are selling drugs. She's fed McCutchen from the city st. Paul is with us today William mccutchan and if you have a law enforcement question for him to 276 thousand is the number in the Twin Cities area. The lines are open right now elsewhere within the state of Minnesota one 800-652-9700. If you'd like to talk to Chief Bill McCutcheon from the city of Saint Paul, you have been Chief now for how long to her since April of 1984 in the legislature as a senator back to the back of the month thing. I suppose my fascination with that comes from being in the news business like some of my colleagues but what kind of relationship do you have with him now having an ant have you had other you consider him a friend is an acquaintance what? It's very difficult to respond because I don't know what you mean by the term friend or acquaintance interesting. They doing the time the investigation was going on. I had an opportunity to look to pick up some information from a news person who said that we can write a story as we want to write it and we can use the words that we want to use to make the story come out the way that we wanted to come up since that time. I've been very cautious about using those adverbs and adjectives that you use in order to to fill in a sentence so that when you asked me if he's a friend or an acquaintance or whether you're a friend or acquaintance, I look at that very carefully and I think that the best way I can handle that is that it's a professional relationship. I see of the relationship being police officer to suspect or what do you think it was appropriate for you to be meeting with him while he was under investigation? I don't even think it's appropriate for you. A criminal event going to take place in the city very quickly or very shortly there is a child coming up and I don't think that we should be discussing that in the sense that it may or may not Prejudice the outcome of that try to move on to a person with a question for you Chief. Hello. Chief is listening. Go ahead, please. Yeah, you're on. The northern suburbs and one of my friends was taken out of the suburbs and let into Minneapolis by a dark girl and he gets sexually abused and filthy speech all the time, and we're wondering how I can go about getting him to come back to Saint Paul. Do you have any places we can call? Why I don't quite follow that I don't know what to pick up on that or not is the young person being held against your will. price of a Young Man is he being held against his will? Well, you know, I don't have enough information to to give you some advice on that. Let me suggest that you. Why don't you visit with your local police department and share with them whatever information that you have and see if he has a course of action that he can recommend. Can probably be the best idea of dealing with a specific circumstance - 10 minutes past the Archie is here and you're on with him now. Hello. Like that clean up a couple of issues that stick really important. The matter has a prostitution law where it's pretty legal. I don't know much about it. I was wondering if there has been any studies done for maybe prostitution to be legalized in Minnesota and be any other studies done like from Europe or something like a really good idea and so clean lawn forsmann against prostitution totally wouldn't be so bad if I can make some money off it not only that but Crib Asperger's Disease by regulating prostitution. You can make a case. Either way. There are some states that legalized. I think Nevada for example has legalized prostitution, but I'm not sure that that's an appropriate thing for the state of Minnesota to do that's an issue that should be debated in the other than the legislative halls and and the pros and cons can be developed in the in a leisurely fashion and some sort of a reasoned judgment might come forth. Well, if you were sitting in the legislature in the bill came up, how would you vote red or green excuse myself. Alright, let's finish up on your history. It's really of if it's an argument that goes on do we do we avoid taking on the issue by legalizing do we avoid the issue of drugs by doing the legalizing drugs? Do we avoid the issues of prostitution by legalizing it do we avoid the other age issue of drinking by changing the age in which you can drink at some point in time. I think that a society needs to take a stand on issues and that's the way I think in Minnesota. We have a stand on the issue of prostitution. We have a stand on the issue of the drinking age. And I think those stands have been developed over time as a result of the deliberative process them until the deliberative process can provide a different rationale for society's Behavior. I think we stick with what we have. We work hard to maintain. What is now on the books moving on to your question, please go ahead. She's listening. I have a question about what's being done in Minneapolis and pasta the same thing in St. Paul. Now, they've got this blocky which they have a lot of undesirable people on and supposedly some businesses that they they want to get out of there and clean up. No, they are going to change that put a basketball stadium or something in there. And I just think those elements are going to go someplace else and I think they'd try to do the same thing in Saint Paul. Do you do you see the closing down one of the x-rated theaters and things as a solution or just something that's going to pop up in another neighborhood. Well, you know some of the cities have created what they call warzones where they they limit the pornographic material in the prostitution to certain sections of the city with the argument that if you if that's the sort of service you need or that's your desire. Then you have to go to a specific geographical area in the city of Saint Paul. What they did was to a zoning process. I think identify several different sites where those sorts of I don't what do I enter prizes might locate and as you know, there was a lot of opposition to that because in fact what happened you moved it from one intersection to another intersection or two, maybe two or three different intersections. It's an ongoing issue and it's really a zoning issue and I don't know that there's any clear-cut solution. I don't think the cities that there's a lot more coming, you know resulting from a war zone than just having the geographic location. There's a robbery there's rapes there's the spread of the Bears spread of other social diseases that probably are more prevalent than AIDS so that It's again. I suppose a way to avoid the issue of what we seem to be afraid to take on and that's what do we stand for as a community what are standards of behavior and I'm not even sure we can sort that out. There's no the Supreme Court has said that every Community has a has a standard but they have not ever been able to identify with Clarity a way to establish that standard and that that question and your answer is sort of leads into the issue of the new police officers that you're looking for are some folks on the city council want to earmark him specifically for the vice squad and others are saying that no that would really be better left to the police department decide how they want to use him and my position of course is that we need some additional officers, but we should have the flexibility for assignment. And yet the council needs to make a statement to satisfy their constituencies that they have a concern for the concerns that are raised by the other by their meetings in the neighborhood. I'm suggesting that we can both achieve our goals by the a the council providing me with additional resources and bi reporting back to the Council on a quarterly basis the number of hours that we spent in the various activities, which converted to numbers of people that way they can see if we're actually doing or making our resources meet the demands of the community and therefore the demands of the city council at the same time. I would have the flexibility what happens really an operation is that you go out and you do your scouting you develop your your evidence you develop the environment that you're going to work in and then you bring in your resources. You bring in your arrest team you bring in your transportation team to bring in a number of people. Poo poo permit you to execute your Tactical plan so that you may have for 5 people working on developing the plan. You may have 15 or 20 people than coming on board to execute the plan for short-term. And then you choose that and you go back and you develop your next plan your next tactical plan and then you bring the resource to text you so we spread out over time and you'd probably would see that advice we why we have five people assigned with might in fact, they have a commitment in terms of man hours or person hours of three or four times that and I think we can satisfy both issues by quarter reports back to the council if you got those new police officers today, you go back to your office this afternoon. How would you assign them? Well, if I had a thority to hire officers today, it would be 5 months before I could demonstrate that I would have an officer on the street. From the day of authorization to the date of hiring in today to the office to go to the street at takes about 5 months. That's the examination process of selection process the back rounding in the training that we need to do to bring the officers up to speed to meet our requirements in St. Paul. And although there's a Statewide post examination that makes you eligible to practice law enforcement. We think we need another 10 weeks in order to take that academic training and skills training and Hornet into the same Paul environment while 5 months from now, do you have a sense of where you'd like to put those people if you can iron right to were asking for 18 officers that we need six to replace the people I put in Narcotics because of the what's going on in the narcotic field. We want to add four more to Bice we want to add four to the downtown area. And then we want for to help coordinate the efforts that are going on in the Parks to bring the parks for return the parks or restore the parks to the neighborhood people. Okay, let's move on to your question. Thanks for waiting for the chief. He's on now with you go ahead and for the children of today and when the area of it this weekend if radio just now, so I would like to hear what the chief thinks would be good for people who are concerned for children to be aware of Well, let me just focus on one element and there may be a number of other elements that would feed into this. But clearly, I think we're in a battle for our young people who's going to win the people who sell drugs or the people who I think it makes more sense not to use drugs. We in the department believe and although we don't have the funding. We certainly are supportive of the idea of developing a team that spends Norton all of its time on the issue of alternatives to the use of drugs. If you look at what's going on with our young people you look at how they recruit in the gangs and if you look how they how how the the movement seems to be to capture that young young person so that you could have a future customer for your drug program. We're in competition with the druggies for that young person. So mine. We're in competition. We think with with in prostitution were in competition with the The Pimps who can demonstrate to the young girl that they can make for five times 6 times 10 times more money as a prostitute than they can as a short-order and the same holds true with with the young people in terms of drugs. What do we see young teenagers at with three for $500,000 in cash on their person and driving nice. Cars and and they're paying their funding from the sale of drugs and then we go out and try and convince young people that they would be better served by being being employed as a clerk or checkout counter person. It's pretty tough for us to demonstrate that that that's the way you make your economic living. How do we get around that? I think that we as a community need to a marshall all the resources that we have and focus on the young people and convince them. I don't have talking about young people. I'm talking about grade school children and convince them that live there's a much better life than than the life of a druggie or a prostitute. We have about a half hour little less than that now with Chief McCutchen and some phone lines available. If you have a question for him to 27 6,000 to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities elsewhere within Minnesota one 800-652-9700 We are has seen some statistics on violent crime come out from both cities of Minneapolis. And st. Paul and Minneapolis seems to be having the rougher time with at least two terms of the murder any idea why that might be our are we just lucky in st. Paul or what? If you focus only on one aspect of behavior homicides, I don't think you do you can necessarily get a correct picture assaultive Behavior consists of misdemeanor assault aggravated assault and homicide. So when you look at assaultive Behavior, you have to look at all three categories many times a negative a Toda salt turns into a murder because you were hit too hard or you're hitting the wrong place or the Striking instrument was of the wrong nature. So that just looking at homicides doesn't give you the real picture of what's going on in the community. If you look at the salt of behavior activities In Saint Paul and Minneapolis, you will just get it perhaps across the country and I'm not done that but certainly in the Twin City area. The mean there is a meanness in the community that did not exist a few years ago. There is more assaultive behavior. In fact the crimes that we look at where we send to person cars or high-risk rhymes with in that the other within the package are high-risk crimes are up about 40% Although. Our homicide rate is not high. In fact, it's less than it was a year ago as I recall the assaultive behavior activity is up about 40% Here's some more folks with questions for chief Bill McCutcheon to Saint Paul High there. Thanks for calling. Go ahead. Honda you and trying to stop them from entering a life of drugs or prostitution but on the same hand, I wonder if the chief has given up on the jobs been felt as because prostitution what do you want to do about them? Because the prostitute need someone to sell your services are her services to and the men come in from outside of community many times. They get their names in the paper sometimes but has anybody ever been given to Brandon to John for what he is or making focusing on the problems at the John have that they don't seek out the prostitute to tell two-way street and incense and I'm wondering what the she feels about the John to come in looking for positives of recommendation for those and over 50% of the people that we arrest the males prostitutes that we arrest come from a city other than st. Paul. And I have said this that I think all the Suburban family is when their husband or their significant other gets in the car at night and says I'm going to the store they ought to run out and take a look at the Adama ter and write that down to be sure that they're just going to the store and bad because what appears does happening is they leave their home in a suburban community come down the same Paul. They Cruise the streets. They they they pick up a girl in the streets. They bring back the possibility the probability of AIDS or herpes or any other than social diseases back into the family structure. And that doesn't make any sense to me. I think they're doing a terrible disservice to their own family for their own friends to their other the significant other they we have concentrated on the John's the last year-and-a-half and we every opportunity we arrest him and we love to put their names in in 6-inch Brandon and every every paper in the metropolitan area what happens as you know, the same fall newspaper dinner. I think I was excellent job in publishing the the names of John's name of the people that we arrested what happens is that the court system is so full of errors that they began to get to collect lawsuit as a result of misinformation being placed in terms of who was arrested for prostitution. So they have discontinued publishing the names which and I can understand their position of their legal counsel and said we can if we can't afford to keep publishing bad wrong name they were also getting and I would have applied for this. They are also getting names from or calls from people in the family structure saying please don't publish the name of my husband or my significant other don't do that. It hurts the family and I hope it does and I should think that that the mail that John should have enough respect for his family structure not to come to Saint Paul not to seek out the prostitute on the street not to spend that kind of money. It doesn't make any sense to me particularly in a day 1 Does Windows when one of those social issues that face is country is a venereal disease a disease transmitted by sexual relationship. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I have no sympathy for and I I would agree with the caller. We maybe we should start branding him with some sort of a mark on the forehead. So everybody knows who may well be a transmitter of one of those social diseases you say that the bulk of the people you arrest are not from St.Paul. Do they tend to be as you suggested Suburban ice or are they from people attending conventions and sew on from out of the state of Minnesota? There may be a few Fat people from Otter Tail County wherever that that is, but clearly the people that are using the prostitute service the street prostitute the the the the prostitution is so blatant are from from the Suburban communities surrounding the city of Saint Paul any particular one or two that I know I I think there is a there's a real problem in the Suburban communities that I ice a social problem that I don't have an answer for but clearly the solution to the solution of that problem is not coming to St. Paul. My I don't know what causes that occur. I think if you look at you ask a question of people from around the country to Convention service. It's pretty clear to us that if people who come to st. Paul for Kenora Twin City area for convention services who are looking for the services of a prostitute being male or female use a telephone for outcall service. That's also what did in my judgment where all the money is in prostitution is the Alcohol Services. They are you know on the street you can you make a deal for 20-30 $40, but in the in the prostitution where they come to your hotel room and they provide you an evening of excited mother or whatever you want to call that they charged as high as a hundred and fifty and $200 is extremely expensive and I suppose that goes on the expense account is a man or woman returns to home base. We pay for the price of our Grocery products or whatever it is. We buy let's move on to your question, please for chief McCutchen. Hello there. I live in always use the park system the great deal and we've noticed over the years that as the city's tax dollars are spent improving a park on or River Parkway within notice as soon as it's done an increase and what looks like people selling drugs wondering if the increases in the police office or the police officers would this affect the car control or is that a Park and Recreation issue? It's really a multiple issues both parks and rec of the police department are concerned about that. We've asked for for offices in our budget to coordinate with the parks department of the reclaiming if you will of the Parks from again young people congregating who do not live in the city of st. Paul a recent trip. I made out to Phalen Park and visiting with young people. Most of them are from the Suburban communities coming into the end of the park service at to meet young people. That's surprisingly there's a number of those young people who are not druggies and there's a number of them who are as critical of the druggies as we are and there's and encourage us to do something about removing the drug problem from the park. I think our program that we've outlined for 1989 will begin to address some of those drug problems at Park and you're absolutely right as you as you clean up the park and as you as you make the facility more attractive it also brings in a number of people from outside of the immediate area Half past 12 then I was Chief McCutchen you're on with him. Go ahead about prostitution arrests. I think our little disturbing you say that that the current effect for that particular crime is the publicity of an arrest affect your saying that the punishment that Society should meet up for that particular crime is going to be done before a conviction and it seems to me that I say what can extrapolate that it's other crimes which seems to me as a very bad practice to I begin The Minnesota data Privacy Act clearly makes every arrest a public record. So that publishing the name of the arrested individual is merely the publishing of public record that has always been the one of the great benefits of a free society and that is that as much data as possible as public to be shared with the community-at-large. The only way the only time that you need to be concerned about that is it when you're arrested for an act and then of course the concern that you brought up earlier that sometimes the information that gets out is not exactly right and then you get people who are upset about that, but you need to clearly understand that the information that was not correct that was being published in the paper was conviction. Data that is that the names that appeared in the paper on Wednesday was was a list of names of people who had been convicted of the act so that in that event the error was in the court system based on a bad address for a mixed up name, but clearly that was conviction data and not arrest data. Alright, let's move on to your question, please for the chief. Hello there. Hello. Thank you Keith McCutchen. I was wondering if hate crimes were on the rise in Minnesota that is crimes committed against a certain racial group or religious group based on just pure hate for them. And if so, if anything was being done about that, that's a really good question. You know, there's a national movement now, I think there's some legislation in Congress, which has asked the police depart with the justice department to begin to gather data on crimes. They called him a bigger she craves we in the same Paul have had a city ordinance dealing with the graffiti that has a heat connotation as well as across burning of those sorts of things that we've reported and investigated for number of years are there was recently in Minnesota a federal investigative team, which asked us to testify in which we did two to begin to address the issue of our The Cry of the motivation for crimes based on race sex Creed National or or any number of reasons and beginning I think Very shortly. As soon as the forms are done. We will be asking our officers in their investigation of crime to make judgments as to whether the motivation for the crime was based on any one of those reasons that dated will begin will be gathered by the estate and should serve as a basis for enactment of statutes by the future legislature. It's so it's an area that has been neglected scenario that we should begin to look at and we should begin to search for solutions to those acts which are based on Big Bill McCutcheon chief of police in the city. St. Paul is with us who got about 10-15 minutes left with him. He has to leave early today. So if you have a question to 276 thousand in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area to 27 6001 800-652-9700 in other parts of Minnesota. There's going to be a vacancy in the chief jobs across the river have any interest no. well, I don't really need to go over there and I have a good Department here has been a lot of time and developing it probably one of the best apartments in the country. Thanks as he says with all modesty. Well, I have never claimed to be number one. I've always indicated to our officers that we're like Avis. We're number two and trying and I think given the number of officers. I have the production that is the result of their efforts. We clearly stand head-and-shoulders above any comparable Department running for mayor That I see you every once in awhile to paper puts in a little footnote that McCutchen is thinking about running for mayor that's not in my current plans and I want to know my current plans never exceed 30 days. So you hold that option open clearly attractions to you about the mayor's job. That's one of the difficulties was saying that you'd like to run for the mayor's office. I don't see very many attractions to the position. I think if I were to run for it would be more of a to fill a need or avoid then to to suggest that I can take the city of Saint Paul to do with a new heights and and I'm over New Horizons. I think the city is. I think the town is Saint Paul has under the leadership of the mayor achieve the status of the city. Who do you think would make a good success rate for Latimer if he in fact decides to move on to something else and doesn't run for mayor anymore? Well, I clear my mind that there are 7 councilman who it all make tremendous Myers highlight change my mind in my budget clearly right now. They're there. They probably have all looked at what the mayor might be doing in the future and I'm sure there's a there are other people who have declared early who have the from time to time. Suggested that either in formerly or formally that they might be interested. I think when they won Latimer leaves they will be a wide open race. There will be at least seven candidates and it should be a lively time for Saint Paul and Will Bill McCutcheon make 8 or 9 or 10. Well, we'll stay tuned and find out I guess move on to your question for the sheets. Thanks for calling here is a go maybe four or five years ago the Center for Disease Control open an office for violence epidemiology and after about a year, so I changed to the name was changed to injury epidemiology because I don't know why they change it. Other than maybe we're just too violent can't understand that my question. Do you get regular reports from that organization and secondly? Shouldn't we begin admitting maybe through teaching special classes at the universities and colleges in high school. And so why should we begin admitting that we are a terribly violent Nation quit kidding ourselves if we're anything but a very violent Nation. Can you try that together for me, please in response to the first part of your question, we do not get regular reports If he if your issue is it if we are a violent Society I would say that is true. And I think we're becoming more violent. We're seeing more meanness in the community that we did historically. I I think that the big issue is beginning to address that too concerned that there is a meanness there is that were mean-spirited people for some reason of late weather. We've we've become too fat and Sassy, I don't know what that what what cause of it is because clearly we're seeing the results of it. I think we need a national study a national Center if you will that looks at of the violent. Ryan the violence of America and see what we can begin to do about if you remember I think back in 68 we talked about the violence in America under I think President Johnson and there was a lot of federal for a great amount of federal funding develop to begin to address the issue and it's kind of lost its Steam and and as a money was spent for so many things that we didn't really address that issue and people became disinterested in following that through one. But clearly there is a sense a greater sense of violence in the community in the last few years, and I've seen an IT historically Moving on now to your question. Go ahead Chief McCutchen is listening. more police attention that I used to I just I've got a ponytail and all the sudden least watch when I go by I had one night. This is a Minneapolis. I just started get into my car and I have policemen turned around at three point turn around and pulled in behind me and wait for me to pull out. I just want to feel something about profile guidelines are going on for criminal types that you look for after some guidelines that you were a police officers are using now that I'm keeping my officers are short know so they can wear their hats. It's a it's a it's a young man style and if you wear your hair as you see fit you dress as you see fit and will treat you based on your behavior or not on your dresser or how you look and onto your question, please hello there. I wanted to ask what the chief sees as a program or actions that can be taken to reduce the the climate of fear that women and children in our community here are faced with this has been a lot of recent attention focus because of the killings in Minneapolis, but it's see if it's a more ongoing problem in that and I'm concerned with the advice is always to arm ourselves and lock ourselves in our houses when in fact, we're not the ones who were causing the problem, but we're the ones who are supposed to restrict what it is that we're doing. I'd like to see if he has some better suggestion for what we could do. Let me Begin by saying that in relative terms. Same Paul is one of the safest cities in America. Now having said that I think it's important to understand that all of us are at risk when we're out walking around and for a number of reasons that is there's a changing way we treat. Our our our social programs of change. We have more people on the street that are unsupervised and they were historically we need to recognize what's going on in the environment which we function. I think it's important. If you're going to go out to have an evening you've you think about where you going to go and how you're going to get there and I suspect that if you do that, you will enjoy the living in the in the metropolitan area. Most of the time that that people get in trouble is that they don't plan on and where they're going or how they're going to get there and I don't think that's too much to to to take into consideration when you're going to a movie or when you going downtown shopping. You know, where am I going to park when I go downtown? What stores are going to you kind of do a little itinerary before you go and then you follow that plan and I suspect you'll find that you can do almost anything you want without being bothered. And they also have to recognize that there is no no feasible way that we can protect everybody from every event as you look at as you look at this whole issue of crime as bad as we compress populations are removed more and more people in the metropolitan area. We create more opportunity for confrontation. And that's not only in this area. That's all across the country. The major metropolitan areas are where you have most of the opportunity for confrontations. And as a result, you have the most crime report. So I think in the consideration of that you need to think about plan a little bit about where you going and how are you going to get there who you're going with what time you going to get home and that's worth? Real estate one more year for the chief. Hello. Chief said that in response to a question about how to get more Justice into our system that we should reduce. The number of laws that they are altogether too many laws on the books and altogether too much Freedom as to which will be enforced and not enforce and I'd like to get the Chiefs comments on that, please. Well, we started out with the Ten Commandments and we've certainly expanded on that but I think that most of those changes have been good faith efforts to respond to concerns as as visual Eyes by a legislative body are the reason we have so many degrees of theft or degrees of this or that is because in that process there's a feeling that that innocent persons or maybe not exciting that well, but where there's there's a lesser degree of involvement or evil I guess. It doesn't wait. There's a lesser degree of evil when you steal $500 rather than 10,000 and that's were they so he get degrees of the crime. I all of it. I think Spencer from the idea that we're getting more complex as a society. And therefore we need more levels more degrees and more options if you will for the courts in the attorneys to look at as a Gobot I trying to manage this anti-social behaviour. That's what I think important understand. We can totally commit everybody who does something wrong to an institution. It's always been all over trying trying to manage a level of crime and that says that we will have some criminal behavior and every community and how do we manage that so that we can provide a reasonable level of safety and that's that's our goal. And that's I think what we have all of those varying degrees for for criminal acts. It's simplistic to say that everybody who commit staff should go to jail. That's not possible. We can't afford it would never wanted to do that and Who's never made that sort of commitment I should say and in this was in the in the Western Hemisphere, at least that's how it ties in and it said topic that could be the focus of a whole hour and soft but sentencing guidelines, some books argue that to just a revolving door altogether too. Many people are being let out on the street after being arrested other safe, but everybody and you don't even have to build a million jails when I was in the legislature. I carry the sentencing guidelines Bill. Let me then set the historical perspective in the seventies. There was a great deal of unrest in the prison population. The unrest was created by and large because there was a perception reality really that the people people were being institutionalized for different length of time for committing the same crime. It was more of a product of where you committed the crime rather than the kind of crime you committed and you would find somebody in the institution who had stolen the pig for exam Golden Rule Minnesota serving the same amount of time for a man who committed a major house burglary in the metropolitan area and when they got to comparing their crimes that they had committed in the sentence and receive there was clearly a disparity result of the of the of the trial. And as a result of that we had a lot of unrest we had a parole board that was tried to sort that out. But it was in the in the self accused of being unfair in Solutions what the legislature did then was to try and reduce the amount of options that were available and by reducing the amount of options, you would more nearly have parody in the sentencing program so that if you went to an institution either from from koochiching County or from from Rock County wherever you went from in the state and you were sentence for the same crime, you would probably get the same amount of time an institution. We also looked at the reality that you cannot afford to institutionalize everybody who commits a crime. And that's the reality. So then if you can't afford to institutionalize everyone, how do you make a how do you say gate that population and A legislature made a conscious decision to institutionalize people who caused assault who were assaulted in their behavior. And so if you look at the prison population today in Minnesota, you will find that the majority of people who go to the state prisons are there for assaultive Behavior person kinds of crimes. You also find that the majority of the people who commit property crimes are not institutionalized. They may be in a program restitution. They they may be community service programs. They may spend some workouts tight, but that's the basis for determinate sentencing in Minnesota. Not like what's going on. I think now at the federal level where there's a great argument about whether determines sentencing is constitutional. That's what I think you think it's working fairly. Well I'm going to so I think it's working fairly. Well, we all sew in Process created a sentencing guidelines commission. Is there a responsibility to watch that environment? And if there's a need to change they change for example, the narcotics they have not looked at the narcotic issue and her changing the punishment for a narcotic distribution sale in keeping with what they proceeded to be the real problems of Narcotics Minnesota. She said all you got to go all we began talking about the controversy surrounding you this summer my final question relating to that is what have you learned from all that? What are you going to do to change yourself in any way? So that that doesn't happen again. I fear that was not a pleasant experience. Well, what I'm trying to do is to be more open to 2 to provide for more public scrutiny of what we do and how we do it. That's where the thing. My spouse my partner has said that I am glasnost Bill and there I am and I think it's working really well. We've had that I've been there on some networks. I've been more open with the Press. We we've hired a public information officer who is sharing some of the good things that we do with the public. Can I add think that's very very important because when you sit back and you look at the Saint Paul police department, you will discover that we do tremendously good things that maybe not be moved newsworthy, but I really love the glue that hold a lot of this community together, and I think we do a tremendous job, and and what we're doing now is result of this long summer if you will is beginning to share some of the good things that we do well Chase. Thanks a lot for coming and let you go to your thank you for having me.