Just about nine minutes now after 11:10 to bring bomb Potter back in here. Good morning Robert morning Mark. Do you think you have radon in your home? You know, I've wondered about that. I've got an older home. What's the course and older basement in it? Haven't had a checked out though yet. Well, I suppose that's something you might want to consider doing. I have thought about it going to talk about that for the rest of the other day gave you a chance to find out from a couple of experts. So what the concern is about radon gas in Minnesota homes. Laura Oatman is a public health engineer at the Minnesota Health Department or our thanks for coming in and our old friend built Billy. Angel is back extension housing specialist from University of Minnesota. Laura's I understand that you're sort of the you understand the health aspects of this issue and Bill understands about the home construction and and modification aspects of it and some of the real estate issues as well for you. What is radon and why should we be concerned about it?Well, radon is a naturally occurring radioactive gas. It is formed as part of the Decay chain of uranium and uranium is something that most of us are familiar with its an element that is found throughout the environment just about everywhere. As uranium decays down ultimately to lead one of the products that it forms is right on this particular element being a gas is something that moves very rattly through the soil and can come up into the home through cracks openings. Whatever in the basement area. That's probably a Minnesota one of the more common sources of of radon, No problem. Is this in, Minnesota? Well, enough said certainly all homes are going to have low levels of radon in them as a result of Some Testing that's been done by our department and other organizations throughout the state. The belief is are there a general feeling is that anywhere from perhaps 30% to 40% of the homes in Minnesota will exceed a guideline that's been established by the United States Environmental Protection Agency is the three or 40% in Minnesota. Is that higher than the national average. I don't think we really know what the national average is yet, the Environmental Protection Agency has been funding testing in several States and we were in round two of the testing to date. I think there have been a total of 17 states that have been tested. We only know our results for that the round this year when you compare us to last year's testing of which 10 states participated we are considerably Higher than the average of of last year's but the will get into this later on. I'm sure to a little bit rate on his it's going to fluctuate a lot and things like seasonal differences will make a difference in in your radon level in last winter is many of us will call was a very mild or year ago. I should say was a very very mild winter and when we did our testing it was a more normal year. So to compare the results of this year during the 87 88 heating season 2 The 8687 heating season might be somewhat misleading what difference does that make? Well as Laura was indicating radon levels within the home can fluctuate significantly, they can fluctuate due to what's called to stack effect that occurs in in in a heating season. We're basically the suction on the soil is greater because the air leakage out at the upper part of the house is intensify. Because of the temperature difference radon levels can also very do the wind they can vary also in some cases with depressurization that occurs in the home associated with the heating system, especially forced air heating systems. So you can have major swings then in the radon levels within a home on a daily basis on a seasonal basis and to a certain extent from year to year. And that's one of the reasons why in Minnesota, the general recommendation is if you're going to test your home to test for a a year-long. What we've had a much hotter and much drier summer than normal so far what impact would that have disposed on radon levels? I think some of the evidence is is mix there's some weak evidence that I'm aware of that in a cooling situation. If you had central air that that that may retard the infiltration of of soil gas into the home. That's really a mixed picture and and it varies house-to-house. And that's one of the reasons why if you want to know the radon levels in your own home, you need to test your own home and testing can be done relatively inexpensively with simple devices. But once again to test over the long term for up to a full year would be the general recommendation Billy Angel and Laura okmin are with us to do as we talked about radon in Minnesota homes. And if you have a question for them about this issue, you can give us a call in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area. The phone number is 227-6002 seven 6004 Twin Cities area College in the state of Minnesota. The toll free line is open at one 806-529-7001. 800-652-9700 is the problem more severe in certain parts of Minnesota than others. Laura not that we can tell again based upon our survey that we did we looked at about a thousand home Statewide and ours was a random survey which makes it somewhat unique as compared to the other studies that we're done in the state. So you then can take the results and try to compare them to the state population as a whole we divided the state into three areas based upon geology and population in and raided them is areas that had a Highest Potential of having a radon problem a median potential in a low potential. The interesting thing that we found is the theory that we thought was going to have the highest potential of having a radon problem actually had the lowest average of the three areas. It wasn't a lot different but even a so-called experts were surprised when we got the results and because we didn't see what we thought we'd say that I could could Define simply is as Say the northwest or the northeast or something like that because they were Pockets throughout the states. There were areas. For example where What's called the Canadian Shield comes down with there's a lot of granite. So obvious area that we looked at as a hotspot would include the northeastern part of the state coming down through st. Cloud the area along the Minnesota River would be because of the geology there would be considered a potential hotspot, but we didn't see that. We didn't see that those areas where there was a lot of granite because the granite is a type of rock that has more naturally occurring uranium than than other types of rocks do so you there would think you might see more of a radon problem. We didn't find that works with questions about this topic is we continue with Laura Altman and Bill Angel. Hello. There you are on the Earth. OU recovering kind of what I want to ask about. I just don't the house a couple years ago and I noted that the soil underneath that this is Eden Prairie was a lot of clay and a little bit of gravel and I'll do either of those likely to be right on generators in the second question is we've got this this plastic drain pipe that supposed to carry away water. If it does turn out in a cup is buried underground outside. If it turns out that we have a radon problem. Is it make sense to try the denting that actually sucking air out of the ground. This is Bill Angel. Let me answer the questions first. The first answer is maybe the second is elaborate on the maybe answer and that is to your question clay or gravel soil. May you have a problem the answer is you may have a problem and you simply don't know unless you test one of the ironic things and Laura was describing some of the geological variables that were being examined. Is that we're finding radon where where theoretically it should not exist in high clay soils where you have limited soil gas movements and and we're finding it. We're not finding it where we think we would Dayton Ohio is is an example of a of an area with a lot of clay soil and when the initial test went on there, they didn't expect fine elevated radon levels, but they did so the moral of the story is you need to test your own home to determine what the radon levels are. If you do have a drain tile system and gravel under the slab those conditions are very favorable to to put in a radon mitigation system which consists generally of of of a suction system you put suction on that drain tile and vent that to the outdoors and a drain tile system is is a very good system to begin with if you have a radon problem to reduce the levels bilyeu, you mentioned a couple of times and I want to get to somewhere this music just a second. But you mentioned a couple of times now that you should test your home explain what's involved in doing that? Okay, let me begin and then ask Laura to follow up the two major types of testing there's passive testing and that's simply were you going to device you put it in the house leave it there for anywhere from 2 days till full year depending on the device send the back in and get the results. The other major type of testing is called active sampling and that takes a technician with expensive equipment that comes in and takes samples. The least desirable are the grab samples in in about a five minute. Of time to Simply get a snapshot of what the conditions are and then you can also use active devices over several days, but most people are using the past. Devices, the one thing that I did to that is, I guess it depends upon why you're sampling at home as we've alluded to earlier. Radon fluctuates a great deal daily. It fluctuates seasonally. It tends to be the winter that has the highest levels although this varies again from home to home but in general winter have the higher levels and summer have the lower levels and and the the guideline that I mentioned earlier that's been established by the Environmental Protection Agency is based upon an annual average. It's based upon spending 70 years of your life time in the area of 4 picocuries per liter, which is the guideline and spending 75% of your time in that area. So if you're interested in knowing because we're dealing with a substance and I guess we really haven't mentioned it. The health effect that were talking about with radon is a long-term Health effect. We're talking about lung cancer. We're not talking about getting Headaches are coughing or sneezing a respiratory problems. We're talking about a long-term risk. And so if you want to know what your health risk is, the best approach is to do the long-term sampling is Bill mentioned. We generally recommend that you do that for a year. There are other situations where the short-term or what are called charcoal canisters might be more appropriate and we can probably get into that later on and that's when you're interested in getting a snapshot a few will of what's going on in that home. You just want a screening test to give you a feel for what's happening. And that might be most appropriate when you're looking at a real estate transaction or something like that. Will you need to know right away? You can't wait to hear to get your results or Oldman Public Health engineer from Lea Minnesota Health Department of Bill Angel extension housing specialist at the University of Minnesota are with us as we talked about radon in Minnesota homes. And now it's your turn to ask a question. Go ahead, please. Just canisters when I got through the American Lung Association recommends a couple of months is one more effective than the other or better to use and then the second question wrong that if I test you talking about testing all year if I'm running a test now with I am a couple of months and then send it in should I get another one in the do it a couple of months say to 3 months later to get a better picture and I'll hang up. Okay to answer your question. This is Laura Oatman with the Minnesota Department of Health. You've already got a canister or an alphatrak monitor from the American Lung Association and I'm assuming it's still in your home. If that's the case. Just leave it in your home for the full year. Whatever. Of time you want when you send the canister back to the laboratory for analysis. They're going to ask you how long you had that canister exposed in the home and then based upon the number of days they'll do a calculation that will let you know what you're right on level is so no, you don't have to buy another monitor. And if you really want to know or get a good feel for what's happening in your home. I would just say you put the canister in there in June. I would just leave it in your home until next June and then send it in and have it have it analyzed. There's no need to get another one as we mentioned earlier the difference between the two types of canisters. You have the the long-term or alphatrak type of Canister and that's intended to stay in the home for a longer. Of time. Again, we recommend a full year so you can get all of those season seasonal variations taken into account. When you get your your average radon level. The other type of monitor is called a charcoal canister and that's generally from 2 days to seven days. And again, it will accurately read what's what's in the home that the disadvantage of that is, of course, depending upon when you sample to sample this time of year during the summer you're going to get the lower readings. And if you get a level say of to picocuries per liter, which is below the EPA guidelines, you'll think we'll great. I don't have a problem when in reality you if for some reason you were to do a year sample, you might find that you're above the EPA guideline. When you take into account the winter months or the reverse is true. If you sample during the winter and you found out that you're reading was 5 picocuries per liter, which is just above the EPA guidelines. He might say to yourself all well, I better go out and do something. I better mitigate or or take actions to lower the radon level in my home when in reality. If you would done a year sample your average in all likelihood would be below the guideline and then there's no need to take that type of action your next to TV Chester when they recommended for months, I did the test from August 1st until November 1st and look below the guideline the other part of the question, if one testicle my fish and then decides to sell the house are we required to report that to a new buyer? This is going to let me simply make a couple of comments here first. You can do both short-term and long-term testing if you want to know quickly a snapshot picture of your home. You can do the shorter-term. Testing whether it's with the charcoal canister to the seven days or an alphatrak 1 2 3 months, but you can also simultaneously leaving alpha alpha track detector in for a full year the longer-term measurements that are really the best measurements because they do reflect the APA guideline and the. Of exposure that that were most interested in respect to the second part or the second question. Do you have to disclose to a buyer the testing results that you've had in the home at this time? Let me say I'm not aware of any statute or law in the state that would require that you're into somewhat of a gray Zone legally. If if you believe a reasonable buyer would find that information material to their decision. You may have a legal obligation to disclose that information. What we're finding that is developing, especially a New York. We see some proposed laws coming in in to play on the state level requiring disclosure what we're seeing in Pennsylvania and New Jersey that a number real estate contract do have radon addendums that would require disclosure. If you have that information what we're finding also including in this state at this point with corporate relocation programs is a testing requirement that is coming in and that short-term testing we would prefer to see the long-term test results as opposed to the short-term. So I think it's helpful. If you have the long-term test results and keep those results with your with your real estate papers, cuz they may help when it comes time to sell the home. I just wanted to make a follow-up in, to that bill mentioned some eastern states such as Pennsylvania and, New Jersey, New York. Has been some activity the reason the activities occurring there and hasn't perhaps occurred in Minnesota and we may see it in the next couple of years. Is that the whole issue of radon in the home setting is something that's relatively new many years ago. We'd identified problems of of radon in areas where there were things like uranium mining or phosphate mining in the areas around Colorado. Montana. Florida wasn't until really 1984 when there was a very interesting event that happened with a man who worked at a nuclear power plant to keep setting off the the detection devices as he was leaving the plant and had to go through decontamination and ultimately they discovered that the source of of radioactivity was not the nuclear power plant that he worked in but his home and had an incredibly high level of radon in it that was in Pennsylvania. So the eastern states at least as is in regard to radon are several years ahead of us. They've been trying to deal with this problem since 9 Teen 8485 have tested thousands of homes in those States and as a result of some of the activity in the high levels that we've seen there either the state agencies or their state legislators have taken actions to require or at least suggests that testing be done prior to real estate transactions are disclosures be given so just because Minnesota doesn't have that right now. We met it's possible. You never know. What's what what what are legislature is going to do in any given session. What is a professor health expert and Anvil is a housing expert. Do you think that Minnesota ought to make such a requirement? Personally, I think it's too early to do that type of activity. There might be unique situations that we want to look into we haven't gotten into this but we've alluded to the fact that radon at least in Minnesota the main sources the soil as a result it it tends to enter the home through the lowest level of the building. That's usually at least in Minnesota's usually going to be the basement. So the basement levels going to have your highest reading and levels tend to drop anywhere from 30 to 50% If you go up each floor level. So again for four people that are listening out there as to whether you think you should sample or not. Obviously one issue is how much time you spend in the basement or what type of activity goes on down there. But as we've discussed that have been formally we've talked about the idea that perhaps there are situations like on rental properties where there are basement or what are known as Garden level Apartments, Maybe That's a situation where we're testing should be required before people can can rent those those locations because people are sent spending usually 80% of the time in that location and there are there if there is a radon problem there at highest risk, you're going to see the private Market. Demanding greater disclosure hits and I think that's going to come about overtime. There's an April US Government Accounting Office report to Congress would have suggested that Congress may wish to consider and Currie chain the US Department of Housing and Urban Development farmer's Home Administration and Veterans Administration to have a radon testing and disclosure policy and placed. I think we're moving towards testing and and disclosure. Okay, we have about 29 minutes before 12 with Bill Angel and Laura lippman the studios as we talked about radon and your next thanks for waiting. What's your question? This is a situation has been with us since the beginning of time is that correct? Uranium gas or in the gas from the decay of uranium has been around for forever. Are we in a situation where were because the health organizations have come up with a sore because of this one person setting off the nuclear testing radioactive levels radioactive levels of for contamination that we've or overemphasizes fact that there is a problem with radon gas if I understand it from what you're saying if I opened up my basement prior to testing and put fans in the windows and and me and the inside are equal to what the outside air was that the my levels would probably be lower in the form of testing wouldn't we have then if we were acquired it for for sale of home that you could Those tests. Anyway you wanted to and I guess my question basically deals with are we making a mountain out of a molehill question that is testing with a real estate transaction. There's a great deal of concern about testing in that particular situation because there is clearly a strong financial interest to to see low test results and just because that situation exists does raise questions about testing in in that situation in there is some efforts in some ways to minimize some risk of alteration of conditions that would would result in and non representative results from the testing. Let me begin with with the first part of the question. Are we making a mountain out of a molehill molehill my own feeling us know that that we're not that There's little doubt in my mind and and Laura can pick this up. But the evidence is very strong that radon is a health risk. There is a relationship between radon exposure and the incidence of lung cancer over a lifetime along. And that evidence is very strong. It's based upon on occupational data that we have So we have very strong data that there is a health risk and the positive side of that is this a health risk that that we can deal with? We can reduce radon levels in the home usually fairly inexpensive lie just to add on to that from the standpoint of health effects. We mentioned that the main Health effect has lung cancer and that's based spell mentioned upon studies from the occupational setting miners particularly in the uranium Mining and phosphate mining industry that have an excess rate of lung cancer. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has has done some risk estimates based upon exposure to radon and what it means their estimates range anywhere from 5000 to 20. Mm lung cancer deaths every year are somehow attributed to write on exposure if that's the case that makes raid on the second leading cause of lung cancer and that's right. To tobacco smoking. So that's fairly significant number of people that are affected the other thing that it that I just want to mention is it when it comes to environmental contaminant granted this thing has been around for a long time. But there a lot of other environmental contaminants. I can drinking water type things that have been around for a while to part of the problem is that the way we build housing structures has changed and that's preps contributed a little bit to the problem. But also it's it's the idea that we are dealing with a fairly significant risk again, if if the estimates by the federal government or accurate, if you're exposed to radon over a lifetime, even at the guideline, the guideline is not a safety guideline that's based upon what we can reasonably achieve in a home. If you're exposed to an elevated radon level over your lifetime the Environmental Protection Agency estimates that your risks Developing lung cancer are generally 1 + 100. That's a pretty sizable risk. Generally when we start regulating environmental contaminants. In other words. If a contaminant wear to show up in your drinking water some organic compound that that we know causes cancer. Let's say Benzene or something like that. We would establish a guideline or we would start regulating that contaminant if it if it exceeded a level where the risk the individual risk of developing cancer was was greater than 1 in 100,000. So we're dealing with something that that is a significant environmental risk, one of the problems that we're dealing with. I think this is something that we really haven't talked much about is just what is the government's response going to beat a radon and I'm not sure that it's going to be a regulatory response. The interesting it's saying about radon is that it is naturally occurring it is not from some man. It's or so we don't have a regulator that or a polluter that we as Regulators can go after and also we're dealing with the housing setting and government is very reluctant to get involved in the residential setting in a regulatory situation. So at least at the federal level, you're not going to see much in the way of activity regulatory activity word at this stage. Anyway, we're looking at radon as an educational campaign to let people know that it's out there that it can be a problem and that there are relatively easy and inexpensive ways of reducing the the radon levels if you do have a problem, but I want to thank you for waiting earlier. Thank you. Good morning. I'm real happy to hear more discussions on radon and I've read a lot about it and one of the disappointments I've had his reading failing to find any Remedy remedies and preventive measures. I have a new home that's very are tied and frankly. I'm very reluctant to have it tested for Radon because of the potential legal liability to reveal those cast to another buyer in the financial impact. So what I'd rather do is is just try to implement some preventive things. One question I have is does Radon come through concrete floors to the concrete walls. What are some of the preventive measures are there is a research being done in this area that have Delaney old Rascal had no idea there is there is research and there was testing much of that being done under the Environmental Protection Agency Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories and so on. One of the unfortunate thing says most of the field work has been going on as then in the states where the problem has been recognized for the longest Pennsylvania, New York New Jersey summer in Ohio, Florida Colorado. And one of the concerns many of us have in in Minnesota is the testing that has been done in this state and that has been published is very limited and while we want to believe that that the basic medication or or remediation steps that have been successful elsewhere will be here. We can't say with complete confidence that they will be because we have limited test in a cold situation such as Minnesota. What's the best we can do though? What do we think might work? The best thing that we can do when we build a new home is to take steps that one minimize soil gas entry into the home and secondly if testing indicates that there is elevated radon in the home, it can be easily resolved and let me elaborate very briefly to prevent the raid on Entry that generally or to reduce the radon in it requires a membrane of some type under the floor ideally gravel or washed aggregate was strzok under the membrane and drain tile or drain tubing under the slap and if testing indicates that there is a problem it's fairly simple then to connect up a suction ventilation system with that drain tile and basically to divert the radon from underneath the home to the outdoors and that can be done quite inexpensively if you do have drain tile and Gravel under the slab. So the best thing is to seek to avoid radon problems in when you build a new home. You don't know what's under there. You don't want to go in there and find out you do have some radon in the basement while you do so I'll first of all you should test because of what is commonly done in most areas of the country at this particular Point. Number one. There is an effort made to seal cracks penetrations the seal sump pits and like that that's the first step secondly if necessary and then there's some form of soil demolation and generally that involves pulling a small amount of suction off the sub-slab area. If you have a sump you terminate to one end of the tubing to the sump and and run that Discharge pipe outside of the house and power it with a fan to pull suction off the sump. If you don't have a sump often times, the penetration is made through the basement floor with like a 4 inch plastic pipe and you pull suction off off that pipe from the sub-slab area. Bill Angel extension housing specialist from the University and Laura Oatman environmental health engineer Public Health engineer rather for the Minnesota Health Department of radon in Minnesota homes on the line and also some lines available again at 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities to 27 6004 Twin Cities area listeners elsewhere within the state one 806-529-7002 course those of you outside the state of Minnesota can call us in the Twin Cities area on that number area code 612 your experts had heard the recent news item about using glass from a basement window to test for Radon. Yes, we have heard about it. That's a new technique basically to explain to the listeners out there who probably don't know what it is. We're talking about radon when it decays and I'm particularly when its own breakdown products Decay. Dammit little bits are particles of radiation called the alpha particles and and one of the ways at least with the long-term testing the alphatrak testers is is that when they decay occurs, they said they scratch your itch a little plate piece of plastic that is in the the monitor that get sent back to the lab they count the scratches and and let you know what to write on results are there is some work coming out of I believe it's Sweden that indicates a researcher is taken up a pane of glass the ideas at that pain of glass that has a history of the radon in that home. And that's within that glass there would be little etchings that wind radon and its own Decay products. Doubt that they would would release the alpha particles and etch into the glass and that you could take that glass and count the actions and and get a better estimate at least for a certainly long term semi over many years for your exposure to radon that study has just recently been published in a journal. I do know that that at the national level that the US Environmental Protection Agency and the department of energy are both looking at that as as a possible option for for testing right now. I don't think that that's available in Babybel wants to elaborate on that but we're aware that it's going on more importantly at the federal level. The people that are doing the keeping track of all the testing of one of the things I want to mention before I forget about it is that there is certainly a potential for Consumer Fraud. We've seen it in other states. We've seen it to a limited amount here in Minnesota and NPP. Are always concerned about testing how do I get it tested through our department the Minnesota Department of Health in through other state agencies. We do have a list of companies that have passed a voluntary proficiency rating program that's been established by the US Environmental Protection Agency and we will only list companies that have passed that program or that use a laboratory that have passed that program. So just to make this long explanation little bit shorter, we're aware of the process with the glass but that's not something that we would recommend being used yet until the federal government has looked at it analyzed it and they've approved that as a method for testing for Radon in which case if that happened in there was a LabCorp Laboratories that offer that method then we would make that information available to the public at 12 to your question. Hello there. Just wondering if your expert could talk a little bit about the newer inexpensive construction with a crawl spaces in the open levels where there are no sump pumps are jeans tile. And also I'm wondering if there's any difference between concrete block. It supposed to be poured wall Foundation type will have some influence on potential soil gas infiltration. I think is this listener alluded to do you have a home that is built over a Bentley the crawl space or if you have a home that's on a pier Foundation to Foundation types of the relatively uncommon in Minnesota. You would expect to have a lower potential for Radon entry the evidence in respect to a poured concrete wall versus a masonry or concrete block wall. I don't think there is good evidence that this particular Point clearly All types of Foundation Systems can be built to reduce the rate or the potential rate for Radon infiltration. Many of the techniques are similar to those that are used in waterproofing with a waterproof membrane that that would also discourage soil gas infiltration drainage in the case of water through drain tile and the grain tile maybe maybe ventilated. So there are techniques that may be used in both concrete block and poured foundation wall systems or even all-weather wood Foundation Systems. Now, it's your turn to go ahead with a question on right on go ahead please. About brick homes were made from the play in areas first. Let me just say that fairly early on with radon concern. There was a lot of discussion about potential radon contributions in the home because of a masonry materials whether it was rock or fired clay units brick saw and so forth generally, Masonry materials are a very small part of the problem and Holmes and the current information. I'm thinking of from Lawrence Berkeley lab States. Typically, maybe 1% or so of the of the radon levels in in a typical home may be associated with with the building materials that are used in the home. Generally when were searching for Radon problems in a home when we've gone through some other, sources, especially soil gas and we can't identify the sources then we begin to look specifically at that building materials that generally that does not appear to be a problem unless the materials are made from mine tailings and there are some areas of Colorado for example where that's been a problem. I just the other comment that I quickly want to make on that is that some of the listeners may have also heard about water being a source of radon and and that's been much more of a problem in the northeastern part of the United States particularly around main the findings that we've we've had here for one point the the public water. Supply should not have a problem. What's radon because it breaks down or decays rather quickly within 4 days. So that that's not a problem. And and for the private Water Supplies based upon some work done by Dan stec out of St. John's University the average level of radon in our Drinking Water Supplies, even the private Water Supplies is very low and and again is Bill mentioned if there's a radon problem in the in the home the first place that we would look at would be the soil and if that's not the answer then we would look at some other possible Source such as building materials or water. Thank you for calling go ahead please leave your question now. India Arie like at a greater risk for adolescent risk. What do you think I'll bill may may have better information on this. But from what I've heard limestone is also a type of rock that potentially can have higher levels of uranium and as a result can have potentially higher rate on problems. So again, the potential is there but if you heard the early part of of the program, you also heard me say that would that when we ask the experts looked in the part of the state where we thought there would be higher radons which included the Limestone areas. I mean we focused in on the Minnesota River which has a fair amount of that. We didn't find the extremely elevated radon levels that we thought we would find and and as a group those homes tended to have slightly lower levels of radon than other parts of the state. So yes son on first thought you would be at higher risk, but obviously the experts don't know everything that were talking about in this case. And and so if there's a concern on your part, the only thing we could say is is if you're concerned enough then have the home tested. It's very soon. Relatively inexpensive the the alphatrak monitors. Generally you can get for about $25. So I would go ahead and test but all right, that's so move on now to your question. Hello there. You're on the air. Rihanna to work place other than radon in areas that you would expect to find it. That's particularly in the mining industry and the radium dial watch. Yes. That's another I'm glad he'll mention that but an area is where they're working with radioactive materials, you know, obviously another place would be nuclear power plants begin. They monitor those things so carefully that know there's there's not a problem the ventilation systems in work buildings. And again, you may have missed that part of the program where I indicated that radon at least in Minnesota tends to enter through the soil. So the lowest levels have the higher readings and they decrease as you go up to higher levels, but the the way homes are built built or different than your typical workplace building. So you wouldn't expect the same problems the one exception to that it's being investigated in the eastern part of the state and we haven't looked at yet is school buildings school buildings 10 to be built more along the lines of a Residential building their they're shorter there more sprawling than a workplace setting is the ventilation system is is sometimes closer to a housing ventilation system. So that is a potential concern, and I know there have been some schools identified in the eastern part of the us were there have been right on problems. Thanks for calling and waiting. Go ahead please your earlier now. Symptoms are signs of radon in in the individual and secondly, have you found it. There are any the birds in the Twin City area that the potentially have a higher percentage of radon testing that you have done. OK as we didn't mention this a little bit earlier, but I think it's worth repeating the health effects from exposure to radon are long-term. Lung cancer is the main health effects. So there are no short-term health effects. If you've been suffering from headaches coughing sneezing, whatever that is not going to be caused by radon the good news if you will then because this is a long-term problem is that there's no need to panic. If you do suspect that you have a radon problem or have identified a low-level radon problem in your home. We are talking about something that takes many years the exposure risk. Time that were talking about is a 70-year exposure. So it's over a lifetime as to the suburbs know we didn't find any particular part of the state when we did our survey which was Statewide we we did do a significant number in the Twin Cities area. I think it was about a third of the homes we looked at were in that the metropolitan area. We did not find any particular area that had higher ratings than anyplace else but I will thinking back from memory of on the results. The metropolitan area certainly did have has higher ratings of any place else in the state. So from our readings and again, it was a limited number of Home Statewide. There's no particular part of the state that we can identify that is more at risk and there's no particular part of the state that we can identify that is less at risk. We're all kind of equally at risk when it comes to write on compare the risk. Let's see. I don't know if I remember the exact way. I can give you some exact numbers for cancer deaths. Anyway, as I indicated earlier the program the estimates are 5 to 20,000 lung cancer deaths a year occur resulting from radon exposure. The national Resource Council is estimated. I think about 13,000 that would compare to I think in 1987 with either 86 or 87. I think we saw about a hundred and thirty thousand lung cancer deaths that occurred from smoking so smoking at least as in comparison is if those numbers are right is about 10 times greater the risk, but again radon if the numbers are right as number to it's it's right by behind smoking and then all the other ones are much much lower risks. We have less than 5 minutes to go with her. Yes in the topic a lot of people with questions. We'll see how many we can move. Do your next Double Dare? You're very informative program. basement live on the North Shore Lake Superior approximately within two blocks with the lake has there been any testing done in this area? And should I automatically system with that Foundation I'll hang up and listen to my answer is no don't automatically include the fan system in the foundation. I the one concern that I have with with construction along Lake Superior is in many areas bedrocks very close to to the topsoil in in that particular area which makes Foundation construction difficult. I would if I was building a new Foundation basement, I would have gravel underneath the basement slab and I would also have a waterproof membrane underneath the basement slab as well as drain tile and then I after I lived in the home for a year and Have my year-long testing results if I needed or wanted to reduce radon levels in the home. It'd be very simple at that point in time to install for example 4 inch plastic pipe with a fan to pull suction off the sub-slab. The soil below the basement. Let's take another one here. We've got time for your question at all. I'm planning on moving down to a Southern state and building a home down there. Is it possible to test a soil area before the construction of the home and get a accurate reading of radon and another problem? Yes. Alright Bella's let's just deal with that one because you let me quickly answer it is possible to test soil. The problem is that soil from one point of the foundation to another point of the foundation converter a significant light and the general opinion at this point in time including that that is being articulated by EPA Environmental Protection Agency. The National Association of homebuilders is it's not cost effective to test the soil with the number of points that you need to test it prior to Construction in comparison to the cost of reducing Radeon afterwards. So the general recommendation is in in new construction design and some of the minimum level raid on avoidance techniques the gravel under the slab the drain tile under the slab waterproof membrane under the slab using concrete block the top of it should be capped and then test the home and if you have a problem is berleezy generally to reduce those levels. Well, we have I feel just barely scratched the surface on this despite the fact he run for 45 minutes or more or any idea where people could write or obtain additional information that question. I'd open my book here to to have that information available. They can contact the Minnesota Department of Health and our number is 612-623-5348 on we have several brochures related to write on how to test what to do about it. If they're outside the Twin Cities area. They can call one 800-652-9747 and ask for the Energy Information Center Public Health engineer at the Minnesota Health Department Bill Angel extension housing specialist, University of Minnesota. Midday is made possible by Ecolab Incorporated at its Chemlawn subsidiary. But I'm just a few seconds shy of 12. This is Bob Potter speaking.