(00:00:00) Well, I'll tell you we're going to have an interesting are here today talking about photography with summer vacations and graduations upon us. A lot of people will be dusting off the camera buying a roll of film and trying to take a decent picture of some important event in their lives. And then there are people that take photography a little more seriously maybe trying to make something of a hobby of it. In any case. I think you'll have an opportunity to pick the brain this hour of one of the area's top photojournalists. Mr. Mike Zerbe. Mike welcome is nice to have you back on Minnesota Public Radio. Hi, it's always fun to be here. Mike has won an awful lot of local and national awards for his photography. He's covered major stories around the world and he spent some time teaching as well. He was down at the University of Missouri in Columbia last year, which is why we didn't see your work last year. I guess my this is true. We're trying to have other people discover what it's about and have a good time on their own. What what is new now for the amateur photographer these days. Well the big the big newness that isn't quite yet available as still video. There's Marketplace about to open up word still video imagery will become available to the Home Market. It's just barely now beginning. What is still video? I have never even heard the term. I'm delighted. I'm surprised you those of you don't know not easy to Potter as well informed on many topics, but in any event still video is a camera that looks very much like a 35-millimeter camera currently marketed by Nikon Minolta Cannon and instead of using film. It uses a tiny floppy disk 6 centimeter Square floppy disk looks kind of like a miniature Macintosh hard plastic. It'll hold 50 color images. It will record them at 10 frames a second. It's absolutely silent and to see the pictures. You merely pop out the floppy put it into a player attached to your TV set or a monitor and there are the pictures. Wow in color fabulous. Now don't tell me that those things are reusable to of course, they are they can be offloaded onto tape and then reused an infinite number of times or at least a great number that is just fascinating. When do you expect it will see this in the context. Were Market. Well, you can go and buy one right now. If you're really anxious not in the Twin Cities area that I'm aware of I would guess with the next two to five years. They'll become more commonplace is just amazing. Well meanwhile back with back with the regular types of Photography the old-fashioned film with the silver and the zinc and all the other stuff that goes in there. What do you look for in a processing lab? What would you suggest that? I'm sure that you of course at the Star Tribune. You've got a professional lab that right on the spot there, but would you suggest that that our listeners look for in the lab? Well, you probably be surprised consistency is what we look for in the best way to achieve it is to establish a one-on-one relationship with some one-hour photo service that you that is near to you where you walk up and you find the processor behind the counter in you actually get to see them if you can discover someone who will take an interest in you as a person and you come back time after time then that person gets to know you and you're dealing with a human being not not some drug store chain or some supermarket chain. Is there anything the processing? And do to improve the results or there's a great deal. We at the Star Tribune now, I've gone heavily into color. Is anybody who pays 35 cents for the paper nose, and we now analyze our negatives we put them into a machine and see them in full color and you can make a great number of changes in terms of color quality color values density and those things are under the human control. It's not automated at all. We do it one notch at a time as we say and the whole process is rather amazing at how much you can you can control the final product. What you want is someone who will do that for you and not just punch the auto button. There are so many automatic cameras on the market place these days and they're well advertised almost always. However, if you look at the bottom of the TV screen, it will say simulated photograph. What they're telling you is that you can make wonderful pictures, but that what you're seeing are not the pictures you're likely to make an automation is the big buzzword these days autofocus auto flash autoload Auto rewind it does everything but scratch your back and pick your nose. Should that become necessary. Whole process of making a photograph is highly automated doesn't speak to content but it does speak to the process and anybody who can hold a camera up to their eye or even not up to their I can make a sharp clear well-exposed picture what's in it is another story. Mike Zerbe is with us as we talk about photography this hour. If you have a question for him, you can call us in the Twin Cities area at 2276 thousand 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities elsewhere within the state of Minnesota. Our toll-free number is 1-800-695-1418. Five two nine seven zero zero and if you're listening in one of the surrounding states, you can call us directly at area code 612 2276 thousand 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities in the lines are open right now. You mentioned automation Mike. What do you what do you think of that? He would you approve of that? I mean or do you think that you should take pictures the old-fashioned way where you sit and struggle with the light meter and set the aperture and all of that stuff and then hold your fingers and then cross your fingers will do the best of both worlds several people at the paper have automatic cameras seldom. Do we ever use them at a full automated rate the process of turning the camera into an automaton and letting it record the scene is not useful to us. We're very selective in what we photograph. The timing is everything in what we photograph and to just hold the button down. Let the motor take it away. You don't know what you're getting inside the camera terms of having a camera that will be sharp fine, except. It doesn't know what I'm looking at in a tight portrait if I'm seeing your left eye or right? I it doesn't know terms of the action at a football game if I pointed out at the field. Am I looking at the quarterback? Am I looking at the fellow who's trying to sack him? The photographer has to stay in charge, but we'll use whatever Auto features are available to us to make it easier to get what's going on. Well, let's take Questions from folks here who are calling in to talk to Mike Zerby. Go ahead, please your (00:05:49) first Mike survey. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Have you ever used a Hasselblad and how do you compare it to others in the same format? (00:05:57) The Hasselblad is a camera that I have you is not frequently and not in a long time. The problem for us in journalism is that it's a rather bulky rather large doesn't hold enough film and doesn't fire fast enough in a lot of situations. It's more a studio camera several of the people Tom Sweeney one among them at work will use them for flat fashion photography for feature photography where there is a product involved in time to set it up as a journalistic tool. It's not real effective as a recording tool of static objects or controlled situations. It's excellent. The large format gives you really fine quality and the lenses are superb. I have nothing against it except it doesn't serve my needs very well. Mmm now, it's your turn to talk to Mike Zerbe. Hello there. Oh, dear. Let's try another line. Yes, you're on the air now with Mike's. Here we go ahead. I think we're having trouble with the phones here. Can we get that squared away and try you now hello there? Hello, are you on are you on the line with us? All right, let's just let the engineers get that squared away and will continue chatting about a couple other things here Mike how much of a good photography is good equipment. And how much of it is technique almost all of really good photography is in the eye of the photographer. The Machinery involved is not the critical product. You can make a good a great photograph with a box camera many have been made the finer the camera the more more tools you have available to you the better the product in terms of polishing it but the moment is everything and the photographer is in charge of what moment he or she chooses. This is the critical element. The camera is simply a matter of whether you choose to use a pencil apana typewriter. It doesn't matter. Okay, then we get to the critical question, which is how do you learn to use the darn thing? Well, the most critical thing is to do it over and over like any craft the doing of it polishes. It makes it a more finely honed final product. The the system evolving over time is to Take a photograph Lookout. It understand what it was. You came to photograph how well does the image capture what you had in mind and then show it to a dispassionate Observer and see what they see in the photograph a real Community communicating photograph doesn't have to be explained and by doing that repeatedly and under presumably the tutelage of someone who has some experience and skills person can learn what it is that they saw versus what they recorded and what they eventually communicated award-winning photojournalist. Mike Zerbe is with us as we talk about photography today. How are we doing on the phones every squared away? Let's try your question then thanks for waiting. Hello there. (00:08:31) Hello? Yes. I have a question. Do you know of a reasonably priced submersible camera on the market with a focal distance less than a less than a foot? (00:08:45) I'm nonplussed and that doesn't happen real often. There are many submersible cameras on the market the under the foot is a problem. I think you're going to be required to go to to a specialized piece of equipment that is not in my range of knowledge. I'll be candid it's not something. I know you haven't done a lot of underwater working. Not a lot. I see 2276 thousand is our phone number if you have a photography question for Mike Zerbe today and other parts of Minnesota. The toll-free line is 1-800-695-1418 or you're on the air with Mike now. (00:09:16) Yes, good morning, Bob and Mike. I take a bicycle trip every once in awhile and produce a Multi Image show of it with multi projector. And I've also seen the codec show that travels nationally and they have a very wide panoramic type of effect and I've tried to produce that by shooting for instance three pictures in a line with a panorama type of fact, but I'm not totally satisfied. Could you suggest a format camera that I might be able to produce something more nearly? What I would like to get also a second question. Could you speak to radio frequency control motor drive not infrared. I'd like to get myself in the picture on the bicycle as I'm moving through a scene. Thank you and I'll hang up. (00:10:05) Okay, there is a camera called pan on there are in fact several brands that will create a panoramic image the lens rotates in a socket and an effect sweeps or wipes the image onto the film and it'll cover I think a hundred and forty degrees is pretty standard range that resulting image can then be sliced up mounted in two or three slide mounts and projected. There are also several companies which make masks which are to be bound in with the slide that have a feathered Edge in effects of the images when butted up against one another are not just hard lines, but in effect soften and overlap each other that's one way of doing it. Another is to do what you've done in terms of multiple photography. And use the mass to feather it the difficulty is almost always in terms of how many projectors you use to create images that are consistently bright across the screen different projectors with different bulbs of different ages will have different brightnesses and Kodak of course with their budget can afford to do virtually a new projector in a new bulb every time they set up the the images. They create our are done with a great deal of skill care money. And when you stand at a senior probably not concerned that you put a bubble level up on top of the camera that you pivot the camera precise number of degrees each time so that the overlaps are very consistent to do that. You need to pick your spot. It requires a great deal of forethought. You need to see the final scene up on the screen as you're making the picture so that you know what you're doing when I was at the North Pole, I in effect created that same image. It's pretty boring because it's all snow and there's no nothing on the horizon. It's you could have done it in Southfield parking lot. But in any event, you have to Pivot keep the Centered precisely level and make the exposures exactly consistent in terms of radio-controlled. There are several Brands available Venta Hawk Vivitar, each of them have their own advantages most of them cost between 250 and 300 dollars the best of them have several channels available so that if you're working in a crowded situation at a political convention or boxing match your camera will be triggered only by you and not by the adjacent photographers. However, if you're out on a bike ride and you're probably the only person with a radio control camera in that part of the Grand Tetons the simplest one at about $150 will do the job infrared however is less expensive and given a situation will now trip it about a half mile in bright daylight those go for something like a hundred and forty dollars. I say they're more effective because they have a greater range. The radio is good for about a hundred to two hundred feet and infrared is good for as I say up to a half-mile. It's amazing. The use of you put these remote control cameras to in the news photography business. All the best thing we do with them is put them next to buildings that are being imploded. Let them trip away while we're not there. I was wondering how they got those pictures of those buildings. That's the secret. That's the way to do it unless you care to give yourself a grand finish with 41 Fine Photo also Mount them on the wings of aircraft to look back at the pilot as he has he or she is flying will Mount them over hockey goals so that we can see what's going on without actually being there baseball games. I've seen people set up to 3 cameras in a row of they'll trip one in their hand and the other ones will trip automatically lot of variety there. I would assume that in that case some of these automatic features would be fairly usable to and thing you about about Wildlife photography you put the camera next to a nest with hatching eggs, and it will keep track of the daylight while you just keep track of what it is you're interested in very interesting moving on to some more folks with questions about photography for Mike Zerbe. Hello. Thank you for waiting around the earn out. (00:13:41) Mr. Zerbe either a couple of questions first is there. Thing new or different in regularly commercial films that are available. Secondly. I have a new Canon EOS 650d and I also have a Nikon F TN and I wonder if you can give any tips for General use of an autofocus and whether or not you would normally select an aperture priority or shutter priority rather than using full auto a lot of my photographs seem to be about 1/2 or 1/3. Stop Overexposed when I'm using a Flash and I'm wondering how to correct for that. (00:14:16) Okay. We have a variety of things to deal with your the newest films on the market of the very high speed films. You can now get it films as high as thirty two hundred in both black and white and color. This is not push process. This is standard ASAP or ISO 3200 index. They are admittedly grainy but much better quality than you would expect a sa 1600 and 1000 are pretty typical these days and they sa 400 200 150. There's a range of them the The main line where the higher the speed the course or the image remains true. However in a sa four hundred speed film of today, for instance kodak's of ERG 400 or the Konica 400 or the Fuji 400 all of them have finer grain and better sharpness than a film speed of only 100 only a year or two ago. It's an amazing phenomenon how they done that. They've changed the technology in the shape of the silver halide particles. It's called tabular technology and they physically change the shape they now like like little tiny stop signs. If you put them under a microscope, they're not just random particles any longer amazing you get a sharper cleaner more saturated image and the film's overall are just incredible the same technology is true also in the transparency films, but it doesn't seem to be quite the startling difference that it that it shows to be in the negative color of the print films the EOS 650d versus the Nikon. We don't want to get into dueling between camera brands at this point. The 650 is a highly automated. Camera and it performs very well. It's also subject to some annoying problems for me in terms of noise and just general I was standing in the Canadian Rockies few months ago. Looking out over a wonderful glacial seen trees and birds and absolute quiet and car pulled up American and his wife got out stood there with them with an automatic camera much like the Canon suddenly. There's this whirring clicking and buzzing going on in the midst of a almost pristine Wilderness and it was really obnoxious. It bothered me a lot and I suspect in many scenes that that noise is going to affect the photograph. If you're dealing with a lot of people the fact that this camera is zooming in and out at them and making all sorts of sounds is really distracting here have been to a news conference lately you betcha and you can hear that stuff all the time in any event the over the overexposure with flash is really easy to deal with almost all mechanical things have tolerances clearly your camera or Flash or both of them. The tolerances have wandered off. From the direction of overexposure. You can change that by simply adjusting the film speed index on the flash gun to reflect a third of a stop less exposure so that if you had it set at 400 move it now to ASAP 620 or somewhere in that range intentionally telling it to underexpose. But in fact what you're doing is compensating for a manufacturing tolerance that will give you correct exposure over and over fool the machine in other words. Exactly. So, all right. It's about half past the are we talking photography with Star Tribune photographer Mike Zerbe and you're on with him now. Hello. (00:17:17) Hi. Could you please explain when you're through your viewfinder in your subject? There's a wide variety of lighting conditions and the subject of your intention is pretty much blacks and whites. How do you what do you aim at to get a proper (00:17:32) exposure? Are we dealing with black and white or color in color? The problem is going to be complicated in color of particularly if it's slides what you need to do with the slide is to expose for the air. Of interest and let everything else go away whether it goes too dark or too bright if you can artificially illuminate with flash or reflectors or incandescent lighting of some sort and bring the balance into the range of the film. You can achieve a fully balanced image. Otherwise, you'll have to choose and you'll have to choose what the subject matter is and then either eliminate in your mind the rest of it and accept it as washed out or too dark or move in closer so that you've eliminated it. In fact from the frame whatever it is that interests you is what you expose for if you're dealing with black and white or negative color, you can expose for the darkest part of the picture and then make compensation in this later in the darkroom by dodging burning manipulation. We have a couple of lines available again in the Minneapolis st. Paul area if you want to talk photography 2276 thousand 2276 thousand for Minneapolis st. Paul area callers elsewhere within the state. The toll-free line is open one 865 to 9700. All right. Now, it's your turn. Thanks for waiting. Hello. (00:18:47) Good morning. I have a fairly well equipped SLR and then wife is had a Minolta automatic focus camera that we've really used for most General things instead of lugging the big thing around and we've had really excellent results. But it finally gave up The Ghost and I replaced it with her Rico 500 and this has a telephoto of features like that and features that we really liked but we don't get the sharp focus and the immediate focus. In fact for instance taking a picture of a wedding with people coming down the aisle. It's very difficult to get a picture in Focus because of the movement apparently is there quite a lot of difference in the automatic Focus speeds of these automatic (00:19:34) cameras. There is in fact a great deal of difference there to two things one of which is motion in the other one of which is the amount of light necessary to function the Less effective units need a great deal of light. What we're operating with is a system that defines contrast and what it looks for is to create the greatest contrast in a picture if the low light if the light is so low that it can't see contrast very well. It has difficulty functioning the better units and among them right now or Nikon and Canon will operate in very low light and will follow a moving object. But those only came out within the last eight ten months and if you if you need something will follow a moving object and stay in focus on it. I'm afraid you'll have to get another unit. Mistake your question now for Mike, sir. Be hello there. (00:20:22) Yes, and my question is more on photography as a career and how a person can get into it. Can you recommend any schools or programs? (00:20:31) Are we talking about journalistic portrait (00:20:33) commercial? Well, I'm sort of open interested in a variety by partly photojournalism, but also Studio work (00:20:43) Studio work is a very competitive field and requires a great deal of capital to get into there are several schools some of the West Coast some in Rochester New York that will that will give you the the egg technical expertise to get into it. But in terms of establishing a market, I think that's the more difficult aspect of it. Anybody can learn photography. Well, perhaps not anybody but many people can learn the craft establishing a market and being able to be an entrepreneur of sufficient. Whatever that is that it takes to crack into a Marketplace has the same in photography is it would be in retailing shoes or anything else? You have to establish. Your Niche terms of Journalism were into a field that's also very competitive and there are several really good schools that can that can again equip you with the skills. The standard route is to go to a university as such as at University of missouri-columbia, Ohio at Athens or Arizona a number of them that will give you the skills. Then you develop a portfolio and you take some time to do some internships with newspapers at a relatively low cost of pay then you take that portfolio. And you mark it again marketing is is the name of it the the process of getting into photography is that once mysterious from the outside and once you're inside you realize it's a matter of establishing contacts doing stories making photographs getting published because the material merits it not because you're somebody and making a name for yourself. Self and take several years to do it. Is it a promising field or is it or is it so competitive that it's just very very difficult except for the most talented the most aggressive perhaps even the most lucky. I think you hit on it and lock has a great deal to play. There are approximately 8,000 working press photographers in the United States and every year the schools in the United States turn out between four and five thousand new photographers you figure out the numbers and well I could ask you why they do that. But every day, I'd rather hear from your I'd rather hear from you next to low. What's your question for Mike (00:22:46) surgery? Say I was wondering I'm I need to take a picture of a moving object and I need to have the background blurred so and the moving object in focus and I was wondering what the best way to go about doing that with (00:23:01) be are we inside outside Daytime Nighttime? All right, you're gonna have to use a very slow black and white film something like TMax 100 or even slower the key to it is to use a very slow shutter speed if it were talking about a car very slow could translate to a hundred twenty fifth of a second. We're talking about a human being walking or running could be a 60th of a second. You need a slow shutter speed you need then to pick a very small aperture that will allow you to get a correct exposure and then you need to do what's called panning with the subject. It's much like shooting ducks. You pick pick your target you move in synchronization with the moving object and fire the camera while you continue the motion the follow-through is important you must in effect track your object and continue to track even after you push the shutter if you do it correctly and you must do it several times several means probably try two or three rolls of film if you're really anxious to get the picture then you can choose from which affect work the best and it's not complicated. It just takes time. Good luck to you let's move on to your question for Mike. Hello, you're on the air. (00:24:08) Yes, good morning in reference to the gentleman allow back here. That is talking about panoramic view shooting and I didn't catch it of my get said that to use the lens as the pivot point of the camera rather than your plane your film playing in the back. He said he wasn't happy with his shots, but I think if he uses even make up a some kind of a structure on his tripod and use the axis of the lens as soon as you pivot point. I have one more thing go relation to journalism photography glossy pictures again, semi glossy. The old tradition was glossy pictures. Always and they said I've done quite a few quite a bit of photography for a local paper here and I put it on semi-matte and I don't see any difference in the quality of the final print on the paper (00:24:59) only. In fact, we're using what is typically called a matte finish these days. It's Pearl surface Tilford paper is in fact, actually what we're using we use it because it retouches easily in terms of eliminating dust spots or problems like that in reproduction. It makes absolutely no difference any longer. The technology is Advanced to such a point that you supply us whatever you supply us and we'll make it look as good as it can what are some of the other changes that you have observed in newspaper photography over the course of your career. Well, we've gone into digital reproduction at this point the images that we make on a silver based film are now all scammed into a scanner. There are no longer shot with a camera and reduced to another piece of film there. In fact convert it to zeros and ones in a computer and then transmitted over fiber optics to our printing plant. It's really amazing and a lot of fun. Hmm. How about in terms of the the content of photojournalism? How's that changed? Well, we used to 1020 years ago cover an event. We would be there in record it because we were the medium of information first images people would see would often be in the newspaper now with live television coming to you from every far corner of the earth. We no longer can compete effectively on many situations in terms of giving you a fresh image the first time you've ever seen it. So instead we'll look for more insightful images things that are causes and effects demonstrated rather than just seeing it in process will also go in and do a photographs afterward that are that are illustrative rather than demonstrative in terms of the event. They will create an image that that will give you the information but don't purport to be there at the instant that it happened and some levels. This is uncomfortable. We no longer are the primary message carriers. We're coming in with the next day's coverage trying to give you more. Nation in a way that explains better rather than just shows you bang here. It's happening. Not so much spot news. Is there once was that's correct. Now on to your question about photography for Mike Zerby, go ahead, please. (00:27:01) Yes, I need to take landscape photographs as detailed as possible. The quality of the color is an important. It's the forms. This would be used as reference material to make paintings from and it could be slides or photographs. I think I'd like to know what you (00:27:16) suggest. Well if you're if you're really looking for high quality detail of View Camera would be the best job for you 4x5 5x7, even 8 by 10 because the amount of information is while not infinite approaches it you can you can look into a photograph made with a large format camera with a magnifying glass and you just keep seeing things. You never saw before simply because the recording medium is so large. You also have the availability in a larger camera of what are called swings and tilts where you can create a zone of sharpness and that's where you want it. You can eliminate distortions if there. Architecture involved for the kind of image making you're talking about a larger cameras seems to be what I'd recommend. Now your turn to talk to Mike Zerby. Go ahead, (00:27:59) please. Hello. Could you recommend a 35-millimeter self focusing beginners camera something to take on a summer vacation. (00:28:09) They're almost endless they range from 100 to 200. Are we in for brand names? If you want to mention a few you can can ensure shot the Nikon 1 touch. There's an infinite number and they're available to all the while the discount stores your best your target. Sure. Are they all are they all pretty much the same or is there some substantial differences between am not any substantial differences know it's a matter of how it feels in your hand and your pocketbook as much as anything they all they all function with a semi wide angle lens. They all automatically tell the camera. What kind of film is inside the little flash pops up there the pretty much generic equivalents. Are they good cameras are there is it is it good stuff? They will create a better image. For you than most people could do on if yes, the bottom line is they create really Fine Photography of the what we call point-and-shoot Variety. They take care of all the details and they leave you to watch what's happening try to compose your shot and get the information you want on film. All right moving on please to your question. Hello, you're on with Mike. (00:29:09) I am taking a trip to Norway and we'll be taking mostly series shots and I have a Canon 80 program camera and I'm wondering whether I should buy a zoom lens some and I would like to know what he would recommend what brand of 80 to 200 is powerful enough to take scenery shots. (00:29:29) Well, most people think that 200 millimeter lens is really very long. It is the one I'd recommend by the way and I'd recommend the brand the camera that you have yours or others the 80 to 200 ranges is very acceptable. I accept if your shirt trying to shoot Wildlife photographs if you're looking at that lion out on the When you're in Kenya your human the human eye will see it as a monstrous object filling the entire field of your vision. When when you take a photograph of it with a standard camera you in fact find that it's this tiny Speck in the corner. Oh, look at this lion. The mind is a wonderful instrument. The camera is also a wonderful instrument very literal to see the kind of wildlife pictures that we are accustomed to seeing in really high quality were talking a thousand millimeter lens 2010. Those aren't practical to buy or to carry for most people. So the Ada 200 is good. And I'd also take a wide angle. You'd be surprised how much more you can do with a 28 or 24 millimeter. In fact, I often recommend that people buy a camera without the normal lens the normal 50 millimeter 35 millimeter lens is really pretty boring. And if you were to have say a 28 millimeter and the an 80 to 200 you'd be surprised how seldom you would actually need a quote normal lens. Now she had if she has this telephoto lens 80 to 200 degrees. You're going to need to have a tripod also. No, not normally. The most most people are taking films that are sufficient speed now that the camera will have a high enough shutter speed in most situations tripods are matter of personal preference. They will create a Sharper Image if the lens is very long or the shutter speed is quite slow, but most people seem to be using film to speeds of 400 or more and it doesn't seem to be a problem. We have some more people with questions. We also got a couple of lines open they've cleared out a little bit. So if you would like to talk about photography with Mike Zerbe 2276 thousand is the number to call in the Twin Cities area 1 800 600 to 900 700 elsewhere within the state of Minnesota. And in one of the surrounding states, you can call us directly at area code 6 12 and use the Twin Cities. Number two two seven six thousand. It won't cost you an arm and leg on Saturday. Go ahead. You're next. What's your question? (00:31:35) Thank you. I've been trying to take some Color Prints of some electronic signs, which have a fluorescent lighting in the back and then have red blue green or white. Color panels in front of them and I haven't been able to get the accuracy of the color without using filters or anything. I'm wondering is that something I should be correcting for with filters when I expose the picture or when I'm printing. (00:32:05) Oh, what a fun question you're not your you've just approached what happens in terms of color photography. We don't actually ever get the colors on the film or on the print that actually occur in real life. The the film Emulsion is made by the different emotions made by different manufacturers will create in effect different photographs. You can photograph a picture one fujian Kodak on Konica on any film you choose make comparisons. None of them will match each other and none of them will match reality. It's wonderful to watch this happen. When you end up into fluorescent colors, you'll discover that the technology cannot cannot photograph things inflict true fluorescence the Dayglo colors. There's the film's technology will not capture accurately. Little pink or Dayglo orange or Dayglo. It's impossible. It cannot be done with the dies involved. Well, I wonder if they'll get to the day when it can be we've talked about several technological advances here that have practically knocked me off my chair. When if this is Lee another one. The problem is the human eye is the is the intervening element fluorescent colors deal with ultraviolet light and films respond differently to ultraviolet Never Say Never but it hasn't happened in a very long time and I don't see it in the likely future. It's not out there right now. Anyway, okay moving on your question now for Mike sir Bhai. (00:33:19) Thank you very much. I've been an amateur photographer for about 40 years and I've run the gamut from Argus C3 the role of cord up through the nichrome at the Nikon in the Canon AE-1. The study of the Leica is a lifetime work and I'm wondering what Micah tell me about if I wanted to get started in the Leica what model and what lens would be feasible for guy like me (00:33:41) in terms of historical cameras (00:33:43) or just to get started to use it because a better quality camera better quality lenses. I think (00:33:49) well the M5 and M6 Series in the rangefinder are certainly a superb instruments and still used in the current photography. They're very high-priced and you'll find many long discussions over some amount of beer as to the relative merits of the Optics and Machinery involved Lika is certainly a fine product. I'd never knock it. I don't know of any any working photojournalist in the Twin Cities who normally uses like a to do the job. What do you use mostly in the photo journalism business nowadays. It seems to be split about two-thirds in the range of Nikon 1 third in the range of Cannon and I think there's one guy using Olympus these days. Okay, let's take your question. Next total there. You're on the air (00:34:37) line of film for today claimed to have much higher quality and better saturation that kind of thing. Do you have any comments on that (00:34:44) situation you bet what they have is a film that's essentially Motion Picture stock. They re spooled off of the larger thousand foot rolls into 35 lunar cassettes. It'll do the job. The difficulty is that the technology the dyes and and the processing involved our Motion Picture photography processing and if you wanted to have it processed locally, you will have difficulties for instance getting reprints. If you buy their film they have to do the processing in order to get well-balanced Prince, they'll make prints they'll make slides and they do fine job, but should they ever go out of business or should you want to have materials taking care of local? You have difficulties your turn to talk to Mike zerbino. Go ahead. You're on the (00:35:23) air, but I did pick up. I don't know if it's an old camera that organs and I picked up an old Bells camera that just like brand new but the the film that it specifies doesn't seem to be available. At least. I haven't been able to find it. Number 120 or 620 film. Can you give me any (00:35:51) hints 120 is still available commercially and it's in fact the same size is 620. You shouldn't have any trouble locating that at any major camera store even some of the smaller ones any thoughts Mike on how people we've talked a lot about how to take pictures. But any thoughts on how to preserve them the the worst place to put pictures just to lead off with a negative side is in the folders that have these what they call magnetic Pages or the cellophane lifts up will really and because of the plasticizers in the plastic and the adhesives in the page. You're likely to lose color values reasonably quickly. It's just the worst place to put color photographs is inside. One of those books best place to put them is on rag Bond paper with those little funny Corners that we used to have back when we were tiny kids reason is the paper itself is chemical free and the corners don't allow much else to touch the surface of the photograph and that's The best storage is in the dark very dry and without any chemicals touching those those newfangled eels will make it so much easier. You don't have to bother with the paste and all of that. That's true and besides which the color photography that we're dealing with today is good for about 20 years before it's going to change all by itself. Anyway, it's distressing. It's not permanent photography see right 12 minutes before the hour and you're on with Mike zerbino. Hello. (00:37:10) Hi first, I'd like to thank Mike the reefer coming in and answering all our questions today. I think it's great. Thanks. Secondly. I'm there was a gentleman that called earlier asking about getting into the field and you did mention a couple of schools, but you didn't really quickly and I'm wondering if you'd go through that again and also talk a bit about the advantages of getting a degree versus kind of getting internships and getting experience by working under professionals. (00:37:37) Well, if we're talking about journalism now the best the best schools that I'm aware of are the University of Missouri at Columbia and I give my bias. I taught their four-year University Ohio at Athens, Arizona. Austin Texas offers a good program Chapel Hill North Carolina offers a good program Western Kentucky has a good program. Each of them have their own Lawrence Kansas has good program. There's there are many places you can go to get an education. And the reason you get a degree is not so that you hold onto the piece of paper, but the so your it sounds patronizing but the soldier is complete a person as you can be people are not necessarily hired for their technical skills. They're hired for the stories. They can tell and to tell stories you have to be able to relate to a lot of situations a lot of people a lot of professions the more you can bring to this profession as a person the more likely you are to be successful. I don't know if that makes sense. Mr. Potter give me feedback on why I think that makes perfectly good sense. I'd be curious to know what you think of your your old alma mater the University of Minnesota. Minnesota is all I can tell you right now is not well known Nationwide for producing a lot of photojournalists. I'm not sure what the reason for that is. I I only experience it as Let's see the pictures of the Year competition held by the national press photographers Association has an Allied portion called the college photographer of the year and Minnesota has not had many entrance in either of those contests for quite some time. And the reasons are not wholly clear to me. Okay, let's move on then to your question. Hi, you're on with (00:39:09) Mike. Hi, I'm curious to know your opinion on the quality of zoom lens versus fixed lens for years. It's been said that the zoom lenses can't really match the quality of the fixed lens and now here salesman saying that yes indeed. The quality is just as good and secondly is the increasing amount of plastic parts in the lightweight zoom lens. Does that affect the durability of these lenses? Thanks. I'll hang up. (00:39:41) Okay Zoom versus fixed has been a long-standing argument for a long time the quality of the of the resulting image unless You are going to tripod mount the camera and then examine the resulting image with a high-powered microscope. You will not see any difference at least in my experience. You won't see any difference at all between the image is produced with a zoom lens or fixed focal length lens. I'm sure historically early in the early in the production of zoom lenses. There were more noticeable differences now unless as I see you examine it most carefully you won't see any differences particularly. If it's a three by five percent or an eight-by-ten print virtually zero difference plastic versus Metal within lenses the advantages of plastic Arts more it's lighter weight and therefore easier to carry the disadvantages that will wear more quickly. If you are a high use person you probably want an all metal construction. If you are an amateur with you don't use it every day plastic will do just fine in many circumstances make Serbia's with this award-winning photographer for the Star Tribune. He has been a teacher for many years to of Photography and we're talking about how to take good. Pictures your next hello. What's your (00:40:50) question? Yes, I'm strictly snapshot taker the camera comes out at Christmas Easter and on vacation. I've got a Polaroid 680 SLR and for instant pictures and then I've got the new Pentax IQ Zoom for other photography and the problem. I see with both a lot of the pictures. I take are indoors like, you know how to Christmas dinner and things like that and I get a lot of red eyes and I was wondering what causes the red eyes on close-ups and if there's anything I can do to avoid it, (00:41:21) the the whole problem has to do with the where the flash is placed on the on the Polaroid and most of the snapshot cameras the sure shots and icons The Flash is very close to the optical axis of the lens and consequently the light emanating from The Flash goes out to your subject goes right through the pupil of the eye illuminates the back wall with all its Rich red blood vessels. Then comes right back out through the pupil of the eye and into your camera. The only way to solve the problem. There are two ways to solve the problem one is to not have the subject. Directly at the camera and the other is to use a camera that doesn't have the flash mounted adjacent to the lens. Other than that, you can't solve the problem any thoughts on how to take good flash pictures. What would be an alternative to this best thing to do is to flash the bounce the flash off the ceiling or a side wall or off of almost any other object so that the light is not direct direct light is very harsh. It looks about like a miners head lamp on top of your head and the resulting light is Harsh unflattering not revealing get the flash off the camera at the end of an extension cord the end of your arm or bounce it off the ceiling or a wall all of those will help. So the turn of the century folks that used flash powder with the deal held above their head where they had the reckon about they had the right idea. Hi, you're on the air with Mike Zerbe. What's your question? (00:42:37) One of these new cameras? I have a 72 210 lens not most of the time that seems to be Well, it's near it's closer to the regular 50. Would you think that would be a proper one to carry normally on the camera rather than in the bag? I've got another zoom lens that goes 28. I think it is 285 or something like that (00:43:08) and I would not I guess be comfortable myself carrying only a lens that ran from 7222 10 or 8200 my normal if I had to go into the field with a single lens. It's a 35 to 105 zoom lens right now from a slight wide angle to slight telephoto, but my needs are different than yours. If you were photographing birds, or if you're photographing wildflowers that lens in a macro mode would probably do everything you wanted done. It depends on your needs five minutes before twelve o'clock and we'll put as many of you with questions on as we have time for including you. Hello there. (00:43:42) Hi remember years ago. I heard the differences described between painters and photographers is that painters get together? They never talk about paint brushes, and I'm During the quiet is that when photographers get to the other there forever talking about equipment and rarely if ever about content or composition and a second question. I have it's been my observation pressure rightly or wrongly. I don't know that people in their 20s take a whole bunch of pictures when you get in your thirties, it drops off dramatically and by the time you're 40, nobody take any pictures anymore you would you care to comment on either of those (00:44:17) those are wonderful questions. I wish we had about three hours to talk about them. You're right photographers tend to behave much like auto mechanics talking about diagnostic tools or photographers talk about cameras because it's a point of common reference and it's something that everybody can discuss and doesn't involve much cerebral kind of processing but you're absolutely right word processors people don't talk about does this author use an IBM selectric or a Remington Rand or or in fact a computer to write stories with or pencil. Those are not the important relevant objects. The rest of it needs much time to kind of mull over and Ponder and sit back and discuss and it isn't the kind of thing. That's a quick easy hit if I'm if I'm photographing a scene for the paper and someone will walk up and say you like those Japanese cameras that that's an easy question. They aren't going to say what kind of relationship are you establishing between the subject and the background that will somehow be evocative of the scene and cause the viewer to see what you see and feel what you feel. Those are what photography is about. However good photographs are not about cameras good photographs will call up in the mind and the soul of the viewer the feelings the thoughts the emotions the sensations that the photographer experienced at the moment of pushing the button and truly successful photograph will cause you to to to feel something to cry or to laugh or to be nostalgic or to call up within your own mind a similar experience. These are the things the photography is really about and they're not easily discussed. And so consequently we talked about focal lengths and f-stops and shutter speeds and it's sad. Well you discuss the melon I must say sir. Thank you. Now. What about who's observation about lots of pictures in that you take in your 20s if you in your 30s or the time you're 40, you don't even bother another sad but true observation When We're Young everything is new and I'll tell you there's a sense of naivete that some people have and and causes them to see things over and over from fresh perspectives other people say they've seen it all and it's not only the photo profession that occurs in you'll find people in every Walk of Life who will say, I don't know why you go to that those ball games anymore. They're all alike. I don't understand what what you see any longer there life is what you bring to it. Not what you take away from it. Oh God, I'm getting never mind, but the truth, but the truth of the matter is if you take the time to see it's always new. It's always fresh. It's never the same if you if you sit back and say I've seen it all then you see nothing. Let's take one more question. I think we got time to put you on with Michael. All (00:46:49) Mike's last lines of philosophy indicate why those of us who've heard him before like to hear him again. My question is what are the advantages for like and travel photography to use either 64 slide or a hundred or two hundred over 400. I mean, what are the he seems to be pretty satisfied with the resolution of 400 films and certainly that's easiest to take (00:47:16) the only advantage of course is greater detail better sharpness the slower the film speed the better the sharpness and if you're going to blow it up to a mural you'll get a better product. I you're right. I tend to use a common denominator, which is newspaper photography for much of my value making for my purposes for hundred speed film is much better than the newspaper can ever reproduce any way. But if you have a need for if you want to make a wall mural of the three sisters on the Grand Tetons, you probably want to use a very slow speed film and then have Lab, make it into a five by eight foot mural would be wonderful one final thing is people think about traveling and so on. How about going through x-ray machines at airports? Glad you mentioned it. X-ray machines that airports are a nemesis for Photography. They will all say safe for certain speeds film. The truth of the matter is though safe probably probably once but x-ray is cumulative and if you were to run your film through the Minneapolis Airport, and then you change planes in Atlanta and run it through their report and then go to London and change planes there go to the content every time you put that film through an x-ray machine, it adds up and at some point it will be too much sometimes once is too much occasionally twice as too much three times is almost always going to begin to affect the value of the photography cumulative just like it is with people exactly right exactly. Right Mike. We're out of time Plumb out of time. Thanks a million for coming in as been fascinating my pleasure. And now that you're back from Missouri. Maybe we'll get you back again before another year goes by well, thank you. Mike Zerbe has been with us. We're winning photographer for the Tribune newspaper 12 o'clock is the time we can made possible by Ecolab Incorporated and it's Chemlawn subsidiary. This is Bob Potter speaking.