Well, Bob Potter get you back here into the studio launched into the rest of our weekend program for this morning. Well, thank you Mark. And we're going to talk with the psychologist child psychologist can climb in the day who is back with us comes in about couple three times a year can nice to see you today to be her bump always a pleasure to have you on Lee a school year is over of course or nearly so for most kids parents. So I suppose that tough for kids the thrilling release of being out of school can turn to board up within a matter of a few short weeks parents who may have grown weary of encouraging kids to buckle down and study. They see new set of challenges in the summer. So we will have an opportunity for you to ask Ken Klein about some of these kinds of things during the discussion today count as a child psychologist in private practice in the Minneapolis suburb of Edina interesting that you should come in can on a day when the st. Paul newspaper has an article in it.Reporting a study which says that two of five kids are on their own outside of the school day. This apparently based on some research. It's coming out next week. That's kind of surprising is not well, I think the figures have been there for a while and nationally that corresponds pretty closely to the situation. And in the summertime. I think the problem becomes even more complex than exacerbated because the schools don't afford as many opportunities for children. There are some good programs we can talk about some of those and I think the paper article this morning talks about some summer school programs allied with Park and Recreation programs, but more parents are pulling out their hair and I started seeing this about a month ago or parents are wondering what to do when how to plan for their children perhaps half the days is taken up with possible activities to parents have to be more resourceful this time of year to figure out how to have an enriching experience for the children.You know if this is correct, the two of five kids are on their on their own for much of the day. How much of that would be due to actual neglect of some kind and how much of it is due simply to the pressures of having to make a living in this complex society in a real key point. I would say the minority of children in that group could be considered neglected. And in fact, it can be self-reliance experience for children and latchkey children are not necessarily deprived or abandoned or neglected. So I think that's an important way to look at it really depends on the circumstances every child depending on child's age and the neighborhood is really not neglected some parents put a lot of thinking and planning into how their child can stay home and have it to be a meaningful experience for a couple of hours perhaps with an older sibling perhaps with a teenager who's looking to earn some extra money.So I wouldn't consider it the larger group or even a big percentage of these children to be neglected or abandoned that parents can do with their faced with that sort of situation is send the kids off to Camp that will chew up a couple of weeks in summer or several hours during the day if it is a day camp type thing, but I suspect there are a lot of anxieties associated with that particularly for the kids kids who are afraid of getting homesick or who do get homesick and just plain don't want to go what can parents do about that. Well, I say prepare them for the experience and know your child's research is important to understand what the camp is and a day camp is probably a very good idea in the beginning rather than an overnight camp send them along with a friend would be important to not to just be the Soul Child crossing the border into Wisconsin to meet a whole group of strangers and if you can pick up a shortFarm experience maybe a week the first year if you can promote it as a positive experience to the child sometimes hard for the parents to sending their child for the first time to have that separation, but they can be a very rewarding time for both the child and the family and doesn't need to be just the way Bob to get rid of the child for a week or two a can be a very good experience and there's so many specialty camps nowadays. They didn't used to be the situation where you can go to a computer camp or a soccer camp or or a foreign language speaking camp, and now you pretty much can carve out the camp experience that you want for your child can client is with us today, and he is a child psychologist in the Twin Cities area. If you have a question for him about your child's Behavior, you can certainly call us in the Twin Cities at 227-6207 6000 in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area and other parts ofToll-free 1-800 6529700 + in one of the surrounding states call us directly at area code 612-227-6415 for just a second can if the kid despite the preparation and his bike and planning puts up a real stink about it just plain does not want to go on what should you do say to heck with you you're going to go anyway or back down well and that situation. I think you really don't want to be forcing a child to go but their strategies you can use to make it a more comfortable experience for a child there visiting days their correspondence that you can keep up with your child. You can pre address postcards that your child. You can feed in touch with them. That way you can let them take long treasured belongings that sort of paved the path between home and the camp. We're not talking about the toddler the preschool child.Sure your time or the 8 9 10 year old child the child who may be as had sleepovers elsewhere. Some children course have chronic medical needs and their specialty camps for those children diabetic children children who have a very sad handicapping conditions and trained counselors to be able to deal with that. If you are to promoting of the connection to home, of course, you can promote homesickness Foolin to say where you can hear is 40 quarters and you can use the pay phone down the road to call me anytime. Then you're going to be encouraging the child. Perhaps be more home sick. So I think the parents could be focusing on encouragement, but I would never just dropped child off that would be a band we've had about three or four people on the line and all of a sudden they just disappeared. I don't know if something happened to the telephones or if they dropped off because they had something else to do. Somebody came to the door or whatever butThe lines are open to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand. If you have a question for Ken Klein, and then other parts of Minnesota that toll-free number is 1 800-652-9700. 1 800-652-9700. Curious about your thoughts about summer school to summer school. Sometimes it's a remedial thing. Sometimes it is an enrichment program and often times a combination. In other words. I think parents can be looking at this to have their child get some necessary on tutoring or some help in areas were perhaps they had difficulty during the year, but maybe they can experiment with an area that they couldn't during the regular school year. So it'll be a class in cooking or it'll be a class and perhaps a craft that goes along with a class in the basics. It's an excellent idea and I find a lot of children. I look up look forward to it and it doesn't last all day long as matter fact most summer school programs only run through July. So it's not like the whole summer is taken up with this type of thing. We got somebody on the line of the question now for Ken Klein, let's put you on there with him a little I want to discuss your client has any suggestions for how a family could find out about Camp situations. In other words not just find the names of camps, but I feel comfortable about what kind of children come to the camp the Staffing the kind of programming if they have such that you could send your child off to a camping at a friend's would go. Well. There are some guides out and I think you consult your local library in a bookstore that will that will actually review some Camp situations. I think the best opportunity though is to talk to parents who sent their children to the camp before to go visit. In fact visit a camp this year that you would be considering next year. If you don't want to just take the camp public relations materials at face value and I think some good beating the bushes for information is an important thing for a parent to do there are family camps by the light bulb for the entire family. Go for a week. And that's a good way to wean a child into a camping experience. They sort of can get used to the notion of a camping experience and have Mom and Dad right there. Perhaps even in a different program during the camp experience and Mom and Dad might not be actually with them the whole day but they'd be in the vicinity of the child neck that can help to. Dr. Ken. Klein is with us today. He is a child psychologist in private practice in Edina, Minnesota were talking a little bit about the camp experience for kids. But any sort of the child behavior type question is welcome this hour or so to 276 thousand for Twin Cities area of a snooze if you want to get on the line with Ken hello. You're next. But I'm surrounded by kids and I just like to express my appreciation for the really good stuff in writing to the program director. Just joking. Go ahead please your next. Hello. Two wage earners in a family both parents working during the school year the school system uses up quite a bit of the day and then you have me as latchkey kids and come home to an empty house. What are you going to do with those kids all summer? If both parents have to take off and be to work all day. Well, that's the Dilemma that we're facing a course that last key dilemmas when facing our nation right now and there are programs available that parents can consider but the school-age elementary school-aged child in the summer. Sometimes have to fend for themselves and parents need to plan how they can do this with the and I think Bob it's important to parents every her safety rules have a list of phone numbers for children have a neighbor that's available on an on-call basis be themselves available to at least a check in no employer would resist prohibit that organized activities for the child. You do not want the television to be the babysitter. You want them to know what the taboos are regarding cooking or opening the door you want them to have a sense that even though you're not there physically for a couple of hours perhaps that you be there mentally with them and that you really are involved in their day. Ideally, it would be good. If a parent could alter their work schedule or one Parenthood to be able to provide supervision or if you could hire a nanny which most families aren't able to do on the two-way Journey family. Sometimes are able to afford some help in the summer and especially mature teenage help with that is looking for jobs. And in any event that kind of sauce to problems with one. Yeah, absolutely manages to keep the little kids occupied in the big ones occupied not cost a whole lot of money. You're next to go ahead. Please cancel listening. I'm coming to South Minneapolis. And I have a a problem similar to many of the others but different also got a different aspect. I have a 8 year old girl life pretty well. Summer plan for I'm a single parent and working full-time during the day. But I have a twelve-year-old for sort of in between everything would sound very difficult to find. Opportunities for them to grow and develop a plan the summer without having so much free time that allows them to get into a lot of Mischief to sort of in-between and I mean years old Family grown up able to babysit other children. Better feeling on time but they're not very young either incident Alaska situation. What do you suggest? I would look into park programs. I would look into art classes. I would look into athletic programs that are available for the child to science museum has a number of good programs available at might require the parent to do a little bit of altering the work schedule to transport a child. You could. Team up with another family in terms of trading off of Summa supervision time that you'd be available evenings, perhaps to watch another family's children. If I'm mom maybe transport your 12 year old in a friend to come to a program and a twelve-year-old certainly is ready for a runaway experience two of them even for a week that can have a way of not just handing that week. But in reaching the whole summer looking forward to a camp experience in July makes June a lot easier for that child in and for the month. I would assume to that summertime brings an increased Demand by lot of parents for chores to be done. There's a lot more work to be done around the yard in the garden in this kind of thing and the kids presumably are somewhat resistant to that from time to time. You got any ideas on how parents can combat that resistance. Well, the perfect way to combat is to way we talked about him you're going then on the song Money show is to put some incentives into the system in for certain kinds of chores, especially yard worker fixing up the garage door painting something. I think there should be an incentive whether its monetary or material and the children and I also have needs in that regard to be spending funds. So I think there can be no Bargains if you will or structured contracts with children to be doing those things and if you would pay a neighborhood child to do something you should consider paying your own child to do in 20 minutes past the hour child psychologist. Can Klein is with us today as we talked about all kind. Behavior things related to children and if you have a question, we have some telephone lines to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities and in other parts of Minnesota one 800-652-9700. That's her toll free line good anywhere within the state you're on next to him, please. It's not a severe problem, but just thought maybe you had some suggestions. She is very inconsistent. And we've tried to positive motivation kinds of things. She does very well. But most of the time her answer when we ask how things are going and everything is fine. It's always fine and we kept close contact with some of the same things are true. But you're hung up. I'm not able to inquire what particular area is she showing the difficulty in but that's something I would really want to analyze. Is it more in Reading is it cannot be focused in a way that would lend itself to some remedial work? I think close contact with the teachers are important to attitude among children who were scrutinized by parents very often is bug off. You know, I don't want that question and You want we want to approach them in a way that doesn't send connote having a light bulb in the closet and interrogation because they very much I need your support and encouragement rather than you're grilling at 10 years old. I think God is an opportune time to consider perhaps a summer program that we were talking about before the Blends both the fun of school on the Summer with the drudgery of school. All right. You have a question now for Ken Klein. Go ahead. Here's your chance. Son because of the I haven't like once a week and then every other weekend, sometimes I have trouble breaking the ice with him when we get together and I try to keep a certain schedule not a regular schedule of activities, but you know try and plan things I had that we can do but there's like a reluctant on his part to open up and because I don't know what his day today events are like I think earlier in life. He may have been programmed not to tell me these things and Salon address that kind of a situation where there is a transition. When he comes to see you and when psychologically he might still be at his mom's house for a couple of hours. I would say don't require much about his other life and try to build your own tradition. You have primarily a weekend time with him and that tends to be more recreational but to the extent that he's inhibited by him feeling that she's betraying his mom or that he's a spy or go between that you're just wanting information about what goes on with his mom. I would say just steer clear of that and that's good that you're actually scheduling and planning your own traditions and summertime would offer an opportunity with an 8 year old for you your own camping trips or Expeditions. And and I'm sure as time goes on even though it's sporadically that he sees you that he can build friendships with in your neighborhood is one of the panes of part-time parenting for parents in a divorce situation as their children who see them infrequently don't have the network of friendships available. Perhaps if the parent I don't want to stereotype this but then visiting parent often times doesn't live in a child the type of neighborhood they might live in the condom. Cameron apartments and child on winesap having a fairly good relationship with the visiting parent but doesn't have the network that supports that influenced you think so call part-time parents can really have in shaping the kids values and self-esteem and things of that nature considerable really depends on the continuity of that relationship and you've heard and I don't want to trivialize it but the difference between quantity time at quality time, but it's I who see their children this off and I can have a very meaningful relationship and influential relationship not just didactically bomb, but in terms of the modeling they do for the child children identify with both parents very much. So I think just as Grandparents can wield a major influence so can parents who see their children only occasionally Pulling onto some more folks with questions here as we talked with child psychologist. Dr. Ken Klein. Hello you're on now. Girls in a five year old is the weather recently. We took a trip down for mother's day to visit my mother. I need to know what this a 2 hour. Drive it seem like a real mad scramble in the car with Turkish is a he's looking out my window or expecting to have a good time at feel that we're spending a lot of money not to have a good time afterwards. You just really wonder what you've done. What suggestions do you have to help manage? I think plan plan plan and it's a it is difficult. I remember one sitting in the car next to my brother and he screamed on my mother turned around and just swatted me in a b and stuck him and she said I hit the kid who is closest to figure out why I went into child psychology bump, but generally you want to plan these trips and I have opportunities for rest stops and have Refreshments in the car and you want Not start out the trip some parents really set themselves up for this kind of situation because everyone is a 211 degrees before they start out. So you want your time management is important starting out early in the morning before it's the heat of the day when the traffic isn't bad. Nothing will make things disintegrate faster than a parent was already in a bad mood and resenting going on the trip. And sometimes you feel the parents are thinking all boy and being roped into this so people can start out on the right foot and and have adequate resources and maybe negotiate seats before you ever get into the car. You know for the first 50 miles. You're going to sit in the front seat in the next 50 you get to signify draw a lot, but there is a lot of territory struggles about the seat in the window and who gets to control things in a closer environment more compact your car is the more that territory scramble is bound to happen. It's probably not the time to try the 24-hour me. Turn driving at 9 in the five-year-old. All right, we have some more of books with questions for Ken Klein also lines of available to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities area and one 800-652-9700. Hello, you're on now. Contour 9 and 6 I have a feeling that they could be contributing more but I'm kind of at a loss as to how to motivate them or Embrace their cooperation make is a better way to put it my nine-year-old. Especially he's a very strong-willed and also very bright boy and it's when I ask him to do something many times there are so many arguments and it's still on Pleasant that I usually in the end just the end up doing it myself feeling that that's the situation that you're in there and I didn't want to leave the impression before bummed that you want to pay your children for regular household chores before I was talking about extraordinary types of one shot jobs where you painting the garage or something for regular household chores for a nine-year-old that should be part of the family understanding and might be hiding somewhere doing allowance, but a lot of these Doors I think could be a specified with a negotiation and a charge and have your system work for you rather than you be nagging the child. In other words negotiating Advance. The child will take out the garbage and will make his or her own bed and will perhaps feed the dog and if you can negotiate that in advance and have a chart on the refrigerator with the poster board that says family jobs and everyone including mom and dad are have a column on that shirt, then it's the system that sells the child that hey that garbage wasn't taken out. It doesn't become mom being the menacing off and bumped month to tell the tell the job is done. And then at the end of the week, you can turn up those smiley faces or or stickers or check marks or whatever ends and use a lot of Praise at that point to say for your my best Helper and you know without you this family really would have difficulty keeping the house together. So there's the pride participation and I think the mom and a dad and just Can be a spirit about this that lends itself to cooperation and avoids the power struggles that kids and parents off and get into. Okay. We shall move on to some more people with questions your doctor Ken Klein child psychologist in private practice in Edina Minneapolis. Suburb. You're next at all. Three kids in the car and they think they range from about 5 to 10 at the time and for various reasons our middle one was very unhappy. We were having a lot of fighting so we bought a box of poker chips and they were exchangeable for cash and started the kids out with I forget exactly two proportions with you, but the deal was two kids for they both paid up the first one to back down and do something nice got a credit and so we were rewarding all the good behavior. We could find a trying to spread it around fairly evenly and docking the kids when they goofed off and it works surprisingly. Well, we had a much better trip than we'd expected and we never had to do it again and you really can use every family can devise their own. But certainly I believe in the hockey theories of discipline for children in that situation. If there's a mad fight in the backseat, they both go to the Penalty Box and a parent who gets roped into Trying to referee those situations as they haven't observed is very much going to be encouraging one child to set up the other child and say he hit me first or he came over my line in the divider of the car there. And so you really want to make it a group cooperation effort and a group Corporation payoff or in this case with the poker chips. I think there was a group penalty for Unnecessary adversity in the backseat. All right, let's take your question extra confined. Hello. My car isn't speaking to you and I have a few suggestions for the mothers who need things for the children to do while they're driving specifically. We used to travel back and forth to a small Lake in northern Minnesota from the time. I was too and my parents my mother has been a teacher and she developed the whole series of games that we played we counted cows we counted pigs cows Barnes and anything else there were two of a two children and we each took one side of the road and we counted everything they were prizes at the end of a given stretch. Whoever had seen the most cows and we kind of black and white cows Guernsey each. Also. We also played a million different word games everything from animal vegetable mineral with our parents participating in these were fries of up to sometimes in 03 400 miles. Each also on every single trip and I did this with my own children from the time they were practically infants for Planes Trains anything any kind of travel each child had his or her own a backpack even even a 2 year old and in the backpack, we're favorite little games little coloring books little snacks anything that would occupy in a child's time for any any of any length of time and these were stocked for every single trip. It had to be whatever that child could carry. Well, that's some interesting ideas. What do you think of my screen goes are all excellent Saint diversion strategies. If you will at you can keep children from a focusing on punching a little brother if they're looking out the window we used to do along the same lines and Red Barn White Barn, you know, I'm picking counting a license plates A to Z where you everyone tries to get through the alphabet spotting the letters on Billboard's there are some paperback books. Adjust are devoted to car games and traveling with your children. And I think all those things are not only can be enriching and educational but it keeps the children occupied. All right. It's about 19 minutes before 12 cuz I'll buy my doll so they could be looking for state troopers. Now that the speed limit is going up to 65 miles an hour. That's probably true. Ken. Klein is with us today as we talked about all kinds of child behavior related issues a lot of things dealing with vacation and summer camp in that sort of thing. But any kind of child behavior question is fair game today, you're on next. Hello. What's your question in the program with him? And I'm wondering what sort of advice you could give us to discourage this behavior before you hang up. Let me ask you were there any recent stressors in the family that you can Recognize. No, not that I can identify just started this program a month ago. Well, it's going to require some real clothes on cooperation and following with the the teacher that day care provided their eyes. Think obviously this is just a very fact of going to the daycare situation at this time is stressful to new environments and I would just follow it for a while and if they if it persist gifts are some professional help from your pediatrician first and then perhaps saw someone in the mental health area, but that first to observe it for a while and of course the child needs to be removed from that situation will end and chastise mildly when they're when they're doing it. Can most of the questions that we have had today have really dealt with pretty ordinary kinds of problems that people can expect to have with dreads. They're not the sorts of things that you go to a professional for. That's right. What are the kinds of problems that you typically see in practice with kids wear. My particular focus is for Behavior problem situations in which often times can an emotional disturbance. But sometimes do not we most common diagnosis that we would have and my particular work is adjustment reaction with mixed emotional features. And that is that we look to what stressors are going on in the child life and often times. These are trans and situations with a little bit of parent guidance and maybe environmental rearrangements. You can put the child in the family back on track, but when it gets more severe there might be some long-term pathological influences and that can be the parents own on mental illness and Depression could be at a major stressor on appearance on bereavement or divorced that might occasion longer-term problems for the whole family sexual abuse, as you know, it was a very more reported a problem at all. We believe that it's been happening as much as it ever was happening to Sunday reported before those are the kinds of situations. I work a great deal in the area of Los one sort of loss or another divorce and death helping children cope with the stress perhaps of hospitalization separation that type of thing for is it is it hard sometimes to separate out in in dealing with it with a behavior problem with a child just exactly what the child is doing in the whole family. And sometimes you have to try to get the whole family involved in this kind of a challenge. We always will get the whole family or I will always get the whole family involved at least in the diagnostic face might not be intervening with a family in terms of families. Peer counseling that it's nice a situation where I would say very rarely a situation where I will let Mom just drop a child off and go shopping at Southdale and bring the car back to pick up the child. I want to know what's going on within the family and what's in fact pump often times will inquire about the parents own childhood because some of these themes from their own on child rearing get played out again in their own parenting so inquiry at least until the parents own life in the family's life is very critical to getting a good to context for what's going on. Cuz you hear you read in the in the press release that commonly people who are abusive as parents were abused as children and that sort of thing can go on for Generations. You want to interrupt the cycle and as much as we view it as an anathema to be dealing with some parents were abusive they to the perpetrators of abuse Maybe. They will be on giving a governmental penalty or imprisonment but they will need their counseling as well. So they are victims in some sense to and and require an intervention. Well, I don't want to get too far off the track sure, but I thought it was kind of interesting to find out what I say one in Belton. This is not meant to be self-serving when in doubt consult. I'm in one session consultation can often times if nothing else put a parent's I apprehensions to Reston. All right, let's move on to some more folks with their child behavior questions. You're on Hello by KES of your problem, but I have a son. Harold a five-year-old and twin infants and the seven and five-year-olds there's some behavior problems where they're not listening to me and they know I don't spank or hit them and I was wondering what the best policy as I have been trying time out where they're away from the situation but it seems to be cropping up with lack of respect hockey back in infants. This is a case of what we called double displacement and where these children were very much Center Stage for a long time and then all of a sudden they have half of your attention probably not even that with two twin infants in the family. So they're probably letting you know it in one way or another and sometimes they will get back the attention that they formerly had and negative ways by acting out by being bad. And so I think at least one strategy I would employ here is finding ways to give them positive attention to serve beat them to the punch and Quotes from part portion of your day or week to them specifically could be there reading our their story time at night where the infants are away and then give them an opportunity to channel their hostility toward the infants in okay ways, you know, which would be verbally telling you, you know, those little infants. They don't know how to walk after they don't know how to do this yet. But my five-year-old my seven-year-old are big now and they can do this. They need to feel the pride of there their developmental age and stage and know that you really aren't just enamored of the the new addition to the family. Is there a saying that the older kids can be doing with those infants cost to replace own their siblings and I met your brother and can you help your brother in this way? That would be good and I would not let them be with the infants in an unsupervised way because often times hugs Bear Hugs turn into chokes and I walk Sing a little five little five year old walking an infant down the stairs can be pushing the little ten-month-old down the stairs. So you have to be supervising at all times when you have this age difference red stick. Your question next to Lil. Kim Clan is listening. Seven years ago to rural Minnesota and one of the biggest amenities here has been the opportunity to visit any one of a hundred legs within 30 minutes of the halls and so our children during the summer months and during the entire school year of had the opportunity to have that outdoor LED outdoor thing. There was a woman that called in earlier that had a ten-year-old. She was having problems with inconsistency where she was having trouble finding motivation. And what's a thirteen-year-old what we found was giving her a specific Lobby in her case. It happened to the music if that seemed to help everything else everything else just kind of thing to do a whole lot better, but I'm certainly enjoying the show and I we've been real fortunate. I haven't had to work full-time because we are living in the world. I could the woods and when we were in California was both of us having to work full-time, you know. And this so it's been an advantage being able to do this. It's unfortunate. There isn't a lot more going on in the world economy to bring more people from the cities here so that their children would have this opportunity because it's proved to be a real positive experience for us as a family. So it's a welcome plug plug for hobbies to because I think of children can shine in one area Bob. It has a synergistic effect until everything that they're doing. How do you introduce a kid to a hobby though? I mean, how do you introduce a kid to music? For example, you don't go out and buy a piano. I trust no or low some parents. Do you know you're going to play the piano because I never did. Yeah. Yeah. I had that opportunity, but I know how well that'll work that has great music appreciation course is just for the toddler sins. So, I would start with that music appreciation courses where they actually participate and then if you really want to begin with lessons, there are all sorts of opportunities for that and use Turn on instruments that don't require you to make that major investment with a piano and then even when you begin with piano, you don't necessarily have to go out and purchase a piano. So I think art classes science classes right across the street are the science museum great Club activities. And then the child if you listen well will guide you to the extent that you can give a child choices multiple choices in almost any situation Sing Sing. Do you want to do stamp collecting course? The answer is going to be no, but these things what looks interesting to you stamp collecting rock collecting Cub Scouts Music Arts, then maybe out of seven or eight things they'd they'd lead you in the right direction we have about seven minutes left with Ken Klein and a few more people on the air with him your next. Hello. Recently has been having a feeling that he's not loved as much are given as much attention or or whatever and he's conveyed this to us as in ways of them. You don't read to me as much as I used to and you don't play games with me as much as I used to but his activity level is increasing and the things he's choosing to do is his impact of the amount of time that we have available with one another any he's involved in soccer and playing piano and doing other things and doesn't realize I don't think that instead of having 4 hours the evening with us like he used to he now probably has 1 hour and evening and just improving this communication that we love him as much as we have before a difference as well without He understands it all either at this point. I have a couple of responses to that one is beat your child to the punch. So to speak lots of children by the moaning and complaining you don't love me will get enormous response from parents saying, of course, we love you when you've always loved you and what you want to do is start expressing that love and affection and attention before the child starts moaning and putting themselves down another words to eliminate that reinforcements that they get for knocking themselves and we all know adults to who seem to get off on a knocking themselves and getting attention that way so you want to do it before he does that you still can find some special time for the child here again, I'm getting back to the quality versus quantity time, but some special Focus time where that child knows that you are all there for him or her and that's very important for promoting self-esteem. Dorothy. Briggs has a good book on called your child's self-esteem. And I one of the chapters in that book is called genuine and counter and it means being all there with the child that doesn't mean behind the newspaper and are cooking while you're 10 to the child that you've heard. These studies were the average father spends two in the third minutes with their child a day and maybe the mom doesn't spend much more than that. So what you need to do is give them specific all their time and the decided that they know that they can count on and then to not just respond when they're knocking themselves. Self-esteem is not just a matter of how you interact with your child though. It's what you model in front of your children, too often parents compensate for their own poor self-esteem by conveying to the channel how much they love the child and they'll do anything for the child and compensate in terms of self-sacrifice for that child while you really want is not to be a martyr for your child. But to show your child you feel good about yourself and about life in general and that and that you promote their self esteem by demonstrating your own selfish. That was an amazing statistic that you quoted a second ago. It sounds to me like a lot of people spend more time in front of the television set then they do with their kids. Well the disparity between physically present with your child in the same house or in the same room and actually being there with them and that's what I meant about genuine encounter is is it works a great hardship on children, if you're not psychologically there with them then they feel the pain of an absent parents. So it's better to not be physically there. If you're if you can't at least a certain portion of the day be emotionally there for the child will put you on there now with Ken Klein. Hello. It's been aware of the problem all throughout the year and I've tried everything from words for completed work just sitting until it's done which and many times is bedtime and even Dropping out of the situation entirely and telling her that it's her responsibility and that she has to accept the consequences. I say si not necessarily me. I would have a consultation with a professional in this case to find out really what is going on. I don't know if she's a late birthday. Sometimes School holding back a year might be a good idea. You really want to look at the circumstances of that particular child and then figure out some strategies that would help just left. I don't see any more phone calls you what's going to happen. If I give out that number again, they're all going to go out or that's and we're going to get to one person. So let me ask you just one or two more here sugar on my list. One of them has to do with the kids who in the summertime just get there. They're clock completely turned around they stay up all night and don't get up until noon. I stay up till 2 or 3 in the morning in front of the TV set and then they get up at noon missing some of the best parts of the day when it's cooled and go outside and bicycle that's her thing. You think about that we all do I think everyone cly was with the gentleman last night it up party who's there? Visiting here from Washington and he has his own wrist watch set to Coastal time or Western time because he doesn't want to get mixed up cuz he's going back in two weeks and just the time zone change. I know that's not exactly what you're talking about. But all of us really play hard in the summertime and stay up because it's lights and kids are not just used to going to bed at 8. So used to going to bed an hour after the sun goes down. So in that sense, I think when the time comes for school to resume you want to start weaning back to a more normal schedule, but I have no objection to and I think it's actually good for kids to have more flexibility in the summertime and not be on you have to be up too many of us are prisoners of the clock as you and I are right here at this very moment to give children a freedom from that periodically and Summers the great time to let the your teenager sleep or at least part of the time to let your child have first-hand experience with time. Judgments and take the consequences for that instead of telling them they missed the best part of the day and let them see the getting up early sometimes can be anything maybe a bird hike maybe an outing maybe doing something fun with them early in the morning and they can experience that as well. And how about sleep how much sleep do kids need variable depends on the age? I think a good guideline is something like eight hours. But really it depends on the age of the child. If you talking about the preschooler, they need a nap still even in the summer time. So they don't become irritable and make the whole family are too and the older child like an adult is probably more 8 hours. What can this has been very interesting as always while I enjoyed the opportunity to come by but thank you very much for coming in and sharing your thoughts with this. Dr. Ken. Klein has been in the Studio's with us today. He is a child psychologist in private practice in the Minneapolis suburb of Edina. There is much more to come on Minnesota Public Radio this afternoon. We have a full Afternoon Of Music scheduled on the FM network and on ksjn 1330. JG Preston will be in in just a little bit with sportfolio. I think he's going to be talking about his favorite subject today baseball and then we will have the week in review of program with Mark. I stood at around 1 weekend is made possible by Ecolab Incorporated providing products and services for household institutional and Industrial Cleaning worldwide. This is Bob powder speaking.