(00:00:01) We are going to spend the hour talking about the plight of the homeless in our area today. We will be hearing in just a little bit from Mary Joe Jackson's you'll be in the studios and able to respond to your questions about the homeless Mary Jo Jackson is director of the Housing Resource program for Lutheran Social Services and in 1986. She takes over as chair of the Minneapolis Coalition for the homeless begin though with the documentary on the almost put together by reporter Stephen Smith. Nobody knows just how many homeless people there are in the Twin Cities area estimates range from the hundreds to the thousands. There are about 500 emergency shelter beds available to homeless people in Hennepin County. Summon County funded shelters some in shelters run by churches and private organizations Stephen Smith spent the night recently at a church shelter in South Minneapolis to find out who goes there and what life is like here's his report. 6:50 p.m. A Winter's evening at st. Stephen's emergency shelter in South Minneapolis were in the basement of st. Stephen's Catholic Church rectory a rectangular wood paneled room with a linoleum floor chairs and long tables are scattered about a few of the thin Warren mattresses have already been pulled from a closet but most of the guests are drawn around the television down at the far Corner the shelter normally opens at seven o'clock. But tonight the weather is unusually cold below zero already and headed for a frigid 16 below more than half of the homeless men and women who will stay here tonight have already checked in each is guaranteed a bed for 30 days. Whoever else shows up is accommodated on a first-come first-served basis. Doug feder heart is the director of st. Stephen's shelter. The program philosophy is one of offer. Hospitality to any guest who comes to our doors there are some limitations with that if somebody shows up and they've been drinking they are made real welcome. Well let them in the door, but then refer them elsewhere usually to detox or tell them, you know, you can do that or fend for yourself, but if a guest has It has no major behavior problems and can be cooperative and get along with the 29 other people downstairs, then they're welcome here. So the philosophy was one of trying to provide safe and warm shelter for anybody on the basis that they have a right as a human being to have that provided for them. 7:15. The room is filling up with the stale Haze of cigarette smoke more mattresses are set up around the room covered by sheets and frayed blankets a bearded woodsy looking man Forks mouthfuls of cold chilly from a can across the room a young man flirts with his girlfriend on the telephone 32 people have shown up needing beds, but the shelter's capacity is 30 (00:03:04) John Paul James Wilkins Junior. Five people looking for space so you have to draw cards or gets the lowest one highest highest highest (00:03:28) cards are dealt and two young tired men find themselves with the low draw. They regard their luck with blank (00:03:34) expressions. First base for you and will try calling the other shelters and that you just want to hold on just a couple minutes. It's okay. (00:03:45) St. Stephen's emergency shelter opened in December of 1981 parishioners noticed with alarm the increase in homeless people passing through the neighborhood and suggested a temporary shelter be set up in the basement the ranks of homeless people have swelled since then and the shelter is now a permanent program Doug Federer heart says that guests are usually men and usually in their 20s or 30s some have mental disorders, but many are simply destitute suddenly cast from a more comfortable Life by uncontrollable events. Pretty much. What is happening Steve is there's been a collapse in their own support system. They've lost family. They've lost friends a lot of times. They've lost the ambition of the will to try to keep on going in ways. We would say Society expects of people many people have worked and been however, you want to Define productive if you define that in an economic sense, basically, they have been productive people. At some time in their lives 7:25 the two men who lost the draw follow a staff member into a small office. (00:04:53) Yes, my name is Lori white calf and I'm calling from st. Stephen shelter. I'm calling to find out if you who might have space for two men. Oh, you do? Okay, I'll send him right over there. Okay. Thank you. Bye (00:05:09) 7:40 Willard sits on his mattress watching the others drinking coffee from a styrofoam cup Willard is a 41 year old Native American his face is heavily creased with years of hard living. His hair is long and Tangled. He wears a heavy green wool coat blue jeans and a pair of flimsy rubber boots and from the sisseton-wahpeton Indian reservation and from South Dakota and I've been here just I've been with my cousin went my cousin moved away and I got a I got a cousin in the hospital at the end at the end up in County Medical Center and he's on dialysis and I have relatives but Living in the city here, but this little bit too far for me to walk Willard spent most of the last two months sleeping in cars, but then the Arctic weather came and forced him to the shelter Willard speaks of the poverty. He lives in with a quiet matter of fact dignified tone. I'm a Vietnam veteran. And I have an income. Well, it's not enough to really survive on but right now our dough the way things are I've been doing art work and daily labor with the AAA and PCI and I work temporary, you know, it's enough to get by on when Willard's cousin is released from the hospital. The two will go home to South Dakota Willard will leave with mixed feelings about the Emergency Shelters in Minneapolis. St. Stephen's is fine. He says but some others discriminate against Native Americans Willard wishes that a shelter just for Indians would be opened at the little Earth housing project in Minneapolis. We ourselves mortis protect each other help each other and we look out for each other and we feel out of place. with the non-indian world and not a word about discriminating or whatever what we just like rather be with our own people and everything is working in harmony. 810 the kitchen. What are you what are you serving today (00:07:17) tonight at speed? and crackers Yes, and it looks like about it. Are we putting carrots all? Are you going to put them on the stove first heat them up a little bit. Are they warm enough to serve those and Fishes than over some leftover carrots. So we'll put those out if they want to help themselves to (00:07:43) those. What's the big tank of red stuff? (00:07:47) so like a cherry Kool-Aid snacks are at a premium around here unless people come down and bring them in and on a volunteer basis and that whatever they happen to have that we put together. A lot of times it's the same things over and (00:08:07) over imagine on a night like tonight anything like this is warmly welcomed. (00:08:13) I would assume always. (00:08:17) It's 8:30 and John is sitting on a table in the corner of the main room slouched against the wall. He's 28 good-looking with dark hair a trim build and two weeks worth of beard. John doesn't want his last name broadcast on the radio and he asked me for credentials to prove that I wasn't a welfare fraud investigator. John says he was recently cut off general assistance and I didn't really look for a place to live expected to find a job and work my way up. I still have applications out there just been looking for work. I'm not in GA anymore. And that's all were you in the work Readiness program? Yeah. I was in it for a while. It could have gone on. I think I scheduled a go out to Anoka but then I realized I wasn't interested in going out to Anoka I still live as far as I'm concerned if somebody doesn't want to drink he just doesn't go to a liquor store. That's all what'd he say to people who say that you know someone in your position is just is just lazy. Oh for myself my personal opinion. I'll admit. Blue to that. I am lazy. There are those who are hard luck cases or need a directive in life you see and maybe this is what they really need more than anything else. I'll quit again. You know, everybody has to look know what they're looking for enough. You know. Well GA is GA now the it's a run around and I got tired of running around and I got tired my day being tied up by talking nonsense with somebody that was talking nonsense to me. I could sit down there talk nonsense to myself any place. But as far as people go there everybody should try make up their mind what they really want what they want to do then then go about it. What do you do between the hours of the shelters open? Oh, I've been up pounding pavement or sit around drinking coffee or not. I walk into a temporary area and if they look my way I might get up and leave or I might question about job, but I'm very I'm being cautious about looking for a job. What I want to do. How long when wife what kind of job you want to get all it doesn't make a difference. I'm not looking for anything roof. Just keep occupied make some money and You know make make ends meet if I I'm looking for the set goal for myself, you know, just a simple life a simple way Abed simple room with coffee pot things like that. So, you know, it's enjoy the sights Minneapolis. There's a lot of quiet places walking around things like that large book selection at the library newspapers Etc. You read a letter occasionally, I you know, it takes up the time depends what it's about. So it doesn't make a difference in uptown library has a Playboy on on file you get that then you course the main library has newspapers from throughout the country. So it gives you idea, you know, Hometown towns. You've been at things like that and just watching people downtown sometimes. 9:05 Tom has volunteered to do laundry because his own clothes need washing Tom is 33 short and slight is faces pockmarked and his wide black eyes flick nervously around the room. Tom does the laundry in small loads, even though the washer is the large commercial type he forgets to use detergent and can't quite decipher the instructions for the machine. Start now I have a place at the present time, but I can't live there at the present time because where I am at this particular person has psychological problems, and I don't know why he pinpointed me. I got an idea wipe in front of me. I've never did no personal harm to him, but he I feel uncomfortable in his where I'm at. And I feel made my life is threatened. That's why I left the place but then I came here because I had no other alternative know the option I decided to move here and thank God that I'm here for the time being and after a month. I plan on I'm eligible for welfare still because I have a disability and so I plan on getting a place and then continuing school and hopefully after my training is finished getting employment Tom doesn't like living in the shelter mostly because there's no privacy when you live this kind of Lifestyle. (00:12:31) See (00:12:32) certain people in certain groups of people that fall into this category mentally Disturbed with all the types of psychological problems. We got the people that are that are uneducated. I mean, I may be illiterate people that are do not know how to speak English you're reading this year, you know, and then you have people that are women that are you don't have children and don't have no other option but to go on welfare, but I don't know what percentage is but I say I've met and there does exist a lot of people that have that unfortunately the government set free from mental institutions. I would say a great percentage that my still out in the street and the bulk of them lead psychological evaluation and need to have need to get their life intact, uh, move to Minnesota nearly a year ago at the suggestion of a friend. And he used to live in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia. I did a sort of jobs. I was a security guard. I did many jobs went to high school. Some college didn't do well at all kinds of psychological problems. But thank God my mind is clear. I don't I'm not depending on any drugs, but it but basically what it is is that when you experience this kind of Lifestyle, it's one thing to speak about it. One thing to T. Read it intellectually in the paper then 22 experiences through the lifestyle, you know, how you can intellectualize a lot of things in life and you can read all kinds of things about this happened that happened and what it is to experience is when you actually live this kind of lifestyle is far more, you know, a book tells a million pictures well in living this lifestyle tell you exactly how fortunate you are that at least I have I know at least I have a sound mind and a clear mind but a lot of people here is pitiful condition and a lot of people here will probably live their life living in shelter from shelter to shelter and living in the street. Tom says he's studying at a local vocational school to become a cook or a baker when he's not at school. He spends the day studying eating free meals at a soup kitchen or just walking around looking at things Tom tries to keep busy at positive tasks to keep from hating his situation people actually believe that it's enjoyable to be homeless is enjoyable to live this kind of life people actually believe that people there's excessive sure. There's a percentage of people that accept this way of life, but a lot of people here don't particularly care for this way of life want to work want to be productive citizens, you know, I mean, I you got to be a half-crazed you have lunatic to think of this as a pleasant Life to Live, you know, (00:15:28) I got burned out of my apartment. It was arson. I come (00:15:32) here 940 in the shelter office. Julie is 20 years (00:15:35) old. Actually the first time I was here it was me and my boyfriend we were living with a friend of mine. And she kicked us out. So we started sleeping outside and everything. This was last winter then we found out about st. Stephen's till we come down here. We stayed here for three months. We got an apartment. We got burned out. I came back here. He went to live with the friend. We got another apartment together. We couldn't keep up the rent. So that made me back here to where I'm hoping to get an apartment of my own now one bedroom so I can get ready for the baby. Now. I'm (00:16:16) happy Julie is eight months pregnant her belly swells inside a pair of long johns and the neon orange bathrobe. She is wearing her skin is the color of coffee with too much cream in it. Her strawberry blond hair wet from her shower is wrapped in a towel. Julie has been living at st. Stephen's shelter for several months. Now she split up with the baby's father but says she's not much worried about the future because anything is better than the past. Julie left her me. Apple has home at age 12 and moved to Chicago where by the time she was 14. She had two babies and got involved with (00:16:50) crime when I was living in Chicago. I had two uncles of Michael's Delta Mafia. I ran cold came back and forth. I got caught with cocaine. I got put up for murder. And that's when the state of Chicago gave me a choice. It was either too. Go to prison for the rest of my life in Chicago or never come back to Chicago. So the choice I picked was not to come back to (00:17:18) Chicago her two boys taken from her by the courts. Julie moved back to Minnesota and her life spiraled deeper and deeper into violence and crime (00:17:27) had quite a feel salts when I come back here got picked up for carrying illegal weapons. Got picked up for stealing cars. and I got picked up for voluntary manslaughter So I've had my share a lot of people wonder a lot of people say oh this person talk me into this but I already know for a fact I don't blame that on nobody. I blame that on myself. No one can talk you into nothing the things I did in my life sure enough. They don't look good when you talk about him, but I did them (00:18:06) after the baby is born. Julie will think about going back to school to finish work on an accounting degree. She still visits her parents in town from time to time but says she can't live with them. Julie's parents don't know about her two older children or the time she spent in jail. All they know is that she's trying to reassemble her (00:18:24) life people wonder since we do since we have been on the streets for a long time. We do live in shelters. We have lived in shelters for a long time. Does that make us quit on life? No, no one can take away your dreams. My dreams, I don't plan sure enough I need for right now while I go to school and while the baby's growing up I need afdc, but I don't plan to be there forever. I have goals in my life that I like to accomplish. I've accomplished a lot in my life, but I have a I have done a lot to hurt myself in life, too. (00:19:00) And 23 the coffee pot is unplugged signaling the end of the evening. Nearly. Everyone is already in bed. Some are quite particular about how their sleeping quarters are arranged one husky man in a wool stocking cap stretches out on top of a table spooning out the last bites from a quart of chocolate marshmallow ice cream another man prefers the hard floor no mattress pulling himself into a tight ball under a pile of blankets Six Women and 24 men are spending the night. (00:19:29) the playoffs for the NFL (00:19:37) the television finally goes off and volunteer Mark Delehanty locks the outside doors for the night. Delehanty is 28 years old. He's a law student at the University of Minnesota in the two years that he's been donating time to st. Stephen's Delehanty has come to know many of the guests quite well, he looks forward to the night. He spends every few weeks sharing a room with the homeless don't know really what got me down here. Just I had a friend who worked on here and invited me to come over for a night and I saw that they had a need and now I enjoy coming down I get to know most of the folks and into no no trouble at all. Enjoy. Usually just end up playing cards are watching TV over the evening and very rarely has any trouble or in my needed for anything other than to help get cleaned up get things cleaned up in the morning from time to time a guest arrives drunk. It has to be sent away or lights up a joint in the hallway. Sometimes a scuffle develops between guests usually over what to watch on TV or who gets to put mattresses where Delehanty handles those situations firmly but also with a boyish Flair for jokes and fun is past includes Union organizing and pastoral work in South America working here at the shelter. Delehanty says keeps them in touch with what he calls the real needs people need a place to stay and makes me feel like I'm doing something worthwhile when I can be part of offering them a place to stay and also just because it keeps me sane. There's a surprising amount of friendship and camaraderie that you don't see when the people are on the streets and people take care of each other down here. And that's real nice to see it kind of breaks through some of the stereotypes of you think most people think of me going to the shelter. They think of the bombs. Why would you want to sleep with the bums? A real little little tiny sense of community down here. That's encouraging. It's 5:55 a.m. After a quiet night quiet as you can expect with 32 people sleeping in a church basement Mark Delehanty and the other overnight volunteer prepare breakfast an old coffee urn moans in the background as Delehanty cracks eggs two at a time into a large metal Bowl. Breakfast is scrambled eggs toast with jelly and of course coffee. Some of the guests refused to budge until the coffee is brewed others just don't want to move. It's 16 below outside and no one likes that thought (00:22:07) Carol Six Clock. Is there a cording? I'm not here, but I'll get back to you in service to be right with you sir. We just want to try to check and see if we've got the right room. Is (00:22:29) that orange marmalade or a grape Jam doesn't matter just (00:22:36) and I need my boots shine (00:22:40) after breakfast a few of the guests will volunteer to help empty the trash and to sweep the floor mattresses and blankets are stuffed back into closets because in a few hours this room will be used for senior citizen bingo. There is no tidy ending to this story because there is no end for these people. It's the beginning of another work day the work of trying to find a warm spot to sit of waiting in line for charity food of getting kicked out of hotel lobbies or hustled out of doorways by a cop of another day down at the welfare office or at the job training class or nowhere in particular. Shelter for the night was written and produced by Stephen Smith technical Direction by Scott Yankees with assistance from Patty Rudolph 25 minutes. Now past twelve o'clock. We will continue talking about the plight of the homeless during the hour today. Mary Jo Jackson is in the studios and in just a moment. We'll open the telephone line. So you can ask some questions about the homeless of her Mary Jo Jackson is director of the Housing Resource program for Lutheran Social Services and next year. She takes over as chair of the Minneapolis Coalition for the homeless Mary Jo has considerable experience in this area having worked for all three branches earlier of the Catholic Charities. She ran the food shelf and lunch line program. She's also worked with the Hennepin County alcoholism detoxification center. Mary Jo welcome. Thank you for coming in (00:24:20) and thanks for having me (00:24:21) before we To the telephones and The Listener questions. Maybe you can try to quantify this homeless problem that we're talking about today. How many homeless people are there in the Minneapolis st. Paul area do you suppose? (00:24:34) Well, I think it's kind of difficult to make a distinction of who is homeless. There are the people that show up in shelters and that are on the street and we find living under the railroad tracks Bridges and down by the rivers and so forth, but then there are also people who haven't descended into that system, but are yet homeless particularly in the minority ethnic communities. There's a very strong tendency to double and triple up with families finding 18 people in a two-bedroom apartment in my opinion two of those families are homeless, but they don't show up my rough estimate would be that this probably 2,000 on the streets or in shelters or in very makeshift situations and maybe another three to four thousand that are more the hidden homeless. (00:25:19) What is the capacity of the shelters? (00:25:22) I really Can't speak to st. Paul to clearly I do know that in Minneapolis we have about 500 beds and now with the anticipated increase in homeless because of the state-mandated cuts in general assistance that they are getting a large shelter together in on the other hand. We do anticipate that there may be anywhere from 1,500 to 5,000 more people made homeless by their loss of assistance so may not be enough to deal with the problem even so (00:25:51) On Any Given night as we heard in the report that Stephen Smith just did how many how quickly will the shelter space fill up and then what happens to those who are left over? (00:26:03) Well the church shelters such as st. Stephen's almost fill up right away and have to turn away many that's for a number of reasons. They're free and they also provide a more Community atmosphere and people just want to go there the County shelters at times do not fill up entirely. Although the weather being the way it is now they do And in Hennepin County than there's an emergency system through the Red Cross where Hotel you rooms can be utilized as a last resort. So there if people know enough to be able to access those systems, theoretically there's a space for everyone but some people are unwilling to go to County shelters because of there's a payment mechanism If you're receiving any sort of assistance some people refuse because they don't like being in a very large facility with a number of other people of very markedly different characteristics. And so there isn't the housing that people need there's facilities, but they're not what people need (00:26:59) 28 minutes past 12:00 o'clock Mary Jo Jackson with us today as we talk about the homeless in the Minneapolis st. Paul area. If you have a question for her by all means give us a call in Minneapolis and Saint Paul. The number is two two seven six thousand 2276 thousand those of you living outside Minneapolis, and st. Paul directly can call us on our toll free line. That's one eight hundred six five two. Nine seven zero zero and if you're listening in one of the surrounding states, you can call us directly in the Twin Cities area codes 612 and the rest of the number is two two seven six thousand the let Karen answer a couple of these questions and then then get to the caller's. Let me ask you this Mary Jo Jackson, why are people without homes? Why do we have this problem? (00:27:45) There are a number of factors downtown and Central Urban Development has caused loss of a lot of very low income housing this affects very low income families as well as single individuals. That's one factor. There's also stratification currently going on within our society where people who are making minimum wage their ability to earn money is not increasing with inflation. Whereas people who are at the professional level have more of an ability to keep up with inflation. So people are not getting the income increase that they need to keep up with the increase in Costs and utility costs so that that's forcing people out of housing. Another problem is that for people receiving Public Assistance, usually an afdc recipient is expected to pay from 70 to 80% of their income for housing. That's the grant standard in Hennepin County obviously with a very limited income and only 20 to 30 percent of it left over for all your other expenses people become homeless and a cyclic manner because any crisis will throw you out of your house because if there's anything you have to put money out for that you didn't expect you will simply not have enough to make ends meet. So that's an example of how the low income people aren't keeping up with inflation. I think also there's a particularly in Minnesota. We see the loss of earning ability of people who've been farmers and Iron Range workers who may not have been particularly skilled in ways that can adapt to other Industries and who had fairly decent earning potential previously, but as we become more of a technological Society, no, Longer have that ability and are often so demoralized by the fact that their potential has decreased so dramatically that they can't pursue means to better their situation and become more employable. (00:29:36) All right. We have a number of listeners on the line with questions about the homeless for Mary Jo Jackson today. So let's go to the caller's your first. Hello. Yes (00:29:45) question. I had, you know a person like myself here, you know, I can donate let's say an evening or night a week or something to you know to help out and volunteer my help what you know, what how could I go about who can I talk to and you know, something like this fellow who is spends a night there, you know help serve food or something like this. Who can I talk to me about doing something like (00:30:10) this if you are interested in serving food for the night the program to contacted Minneapolis would be the Loaves and Fishes program. That's where they do the on-site meals at one night a month. (00:30:21) What is that loaves? (00:30:22) Loaves and Fishes and I don't know the number by heart but they're located in the Sabbath in a community center as far as volunteering at a shelter. There are a number of shelters and I know they're all interested in volunteers. You could probably contact my office which is 8700810 and leave your name and phone number and we would get that to whichever shelter directors had the greatest need (00:30:46) now. Your office is Lutheran Social Services. (00:30:49) It's the Housing Resource program and we offer information and referrals for this kind of thing. (00:30:54) Okay that telephone number in case you didn't get a job get a jot. It down was 87000810. (00:31:02) That's right. Okay. (00:31:03) All right. I hope that's of some help to you. And anybody else who's interested in serving as a volunteer in some capacity in helping the homeless. Here's another listener with a question. Go ahead please Mary Joe Jackson's listening. (00:31:13) Hi. I have a couple things I'd like you to comment on it seems like inevitably whenever this comes up there somebody that says there. That many of these people are homeless by choice. I'd like you to comment on that if you would the other thing is I noticed in New York recently that they have a new law that allows the police to force people into shelters when the temperature reaches reaches a certain degree and if you could comment on that and last I noticed in the report that the it seemed like it was mostly male and I recently heard someone say that what they are termed they didn't like to hear anymore was bag lady because it made it seem like it was all right somehow and that they wanted they said never refer to bag lady again. Just call it homeless women and it keeps saying it to yourself over and over. Thank you. (00:32:05) So he sings to come in on their merry Jo homeless by choice. First of all, (00:32:10) I would have to agree that there are some people who are homeless by choice, but the term many would not describe that I would say less than five percent of the homes people. I know are comprised of the truly homeless by choice. A person who really prefers to live outside prefers to ride the rails that sort of thing. That's not common. There are those types you see them fairly rarely, but they really that's the probably the group that's been constant over the years. The increase is other people. (00:32:38) Hmm. What about the New York situation that are called refers to were police apparently can force people into a shelter when the temperature gets below a certain temperature. There isn't such ordinance in Minneapolis. Is (00:32:50) there I would feel much better if they made the shelter's the kind of place people didn't have to be forced to get into myself as I mentioned earlier the church Elders in Minneapolis. For example have no trouble filling up whereas some of the other shelters do and I think if we could look at the models that work and that provide a safe and desirable environment for people so that they can take care of themselves. So they're not put off or afraid of coming to the shelter then we wouldn't have to force them in the idea of forcing something someone into a shelter seems very Change to me. (00:33:23) What about the sex is of the homeless are most of the (00:33:25) men I think this comes again from the fact that more of the man who are homeless feel less threatened in a shelter environment than the women do and as I said earlier families tend to double up and most of the homeless women. We see are not single women their women with children and they often know that this is going to happen to one of their friends. So they stay with that friend for a while. And then when they get a place in that friend gets in trouble, they stay with them or a sister or mother whatever so I don't think there is often seen in the shelter's the shelter population has generally more people who have been on the street for a longer period of time and more of those are men women because of the dependent children who are usually present often get off the street faster just because they're trying to create a life for the children and that's not a suitable (00:34:13) environment. Do you have any sense for where the homeless come from? That is are they mostly Minneapolis st. Paul area people or are they itinerant? Do they? From the Iron Range from the farm community as you were talking about a minute ago. (00:34:26) We do see people from the outlying communities, however our agency which does information and referral for homeless. So we see a real broad spectrum of the people involved. We see mostly people who are referred by the County Economic assistance system or by the city public housing system people have come to them saying hey we have nowhere to live and they can't really help them. So they send them to us. They can't provide whatever the public housing or you know, whatever the person is asking of them. So they send them to us. So the majority are local (00:34:59) most of them are residents. Alright another listener with the question for Mary Jo Jackson. Hello. You're on the air. (00:35:04) I just want to thank you for working with the homeless. I think this is so important to lend a helping hand to them. But I am wondering what are the provisions for the safety of the persons and position for the homeless and what provisions Is it really possible for job service and other employment enablers to contact homeless people trying to get a job? (00:35:31) Okay, depending on the shelter in their budget, you know, all the shelter's try to make provision for Pete the security of people's possessions and so forth because the churches are only 12 hours shelters where they have to be open after seven and closed in the morning by seven. It's often difficult for them to secure people's items when they're not present. Although I know they make every effort to do so, it's just simply not always possible in terms of job services. There is a lot of programming at this point to try and make job services accessible to homeless people and I think it's possible for a person to receive messages through a straight Drop in Center or shelter or something like that. My concern would be that homelessness in itself is a very stressful situation and can cause depression in a person simply because their situation is literally so depressing and are they ready right away to go to work? It's like if your leg broken you hadn't had time to heal it you wouldn't be ready to go to work. So are we addressing the right? You at that (00:36:32) point Mary Jo Jackson is with us today. She is director of the Housing Resource program for Lutheran Social Services and becomes chair in 1986 of the Minneapolis Coalition for the homeless more listeners are waiting and your next go ahead (00:36:46) please a year ago. I have investigated. I happen to know about four houses that were empty and that were owned by the city. So I did I wrote to my Alderman and he wrote back and said there's 2,000 homes that are are not used that are owned by the city, but they do have to be you know, they do have to be heated a little and I would like to know why can't they use some of these or do something? (00:37:14) So would I I don't know how to answer that question in Minneapolis. I know we have constantly tried to raise concerns over the number of empty units in the public housing system. And the fact that public money does go to pay utilities on these and we haven't been able to access more than 70 units to date for persons under 62 who are not housed and it's unfortunate that we do have units particularly in the senior high rises. But also as you talk about scattered site housing that are vacant and that there seems to be bureaucratic red tape that's more important than getting these Halls has freed up so that they can be used. I really can't answer your question, but I wish I could (00:37:53) we're listeners are waiting. We also have a couple of lines open again in Minneapolis and Saint Paul to to 76 thousand. If you have questions about the homeless today 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities and our line for those of you outside Minneapolis, st. Paul is toll free and it's available to Seven zero zero your next Mary Jo Jackson is listening. Go ahead please (00:38:18) we are about to spend in st. Paul a lot of money on the I ice palace and Ice Festival and so on and wouldn't that money be better spent for low-income housing also understand that Portland has done a very good job the mayor of Portland trying to help the homeless. Maybe we could follow their example. Thank you. I (00:38:42) certainly agree with your last statement. I do understand that there seems to be a conflict at times between civic pride and development in the needs of low-income people in terms of housing. I personally don't understand where the conflict lies. It seems to me that we all want a working and successful Urban environment in that if we have homeless people that's going to detract from that and then we have to plan for all strata of our society the low income and middle income as well as the people who are more affluent and it's a concern that I have that we can't somehow certainly not Cut out Civic development, but also look at that. This is a part of it that we will always have low income people and that we have to plan for them as well for the rest in terms of following other cities Advantage examples. I think San Francisco Portland in particularly, San Diego have set excellent examples of how they deal with some of the problems of homelessness and I would certainly challenge the City of Minneapolis. And st. Paul to do the same (00:39:39) list just one or two things at those other cities have done that you think would be (00:39:43) well in Portland and in San Francisco. There are SRO development policies, which for (00:39:50) example Sorrows, what does that mean Stan single? (00:39:54) I'm sorry. It's one of our technical terms. I guess it's for single room housing for the very low income person who does not require an apartment and who traditionally has lived in the downtown area that's being displaced by Urban Development in city of San Francisco. For example, each developer who wants to build in the downtown area has to put a certain percentage of his development. budget into a fund for the creation of this kind of Housing and the city has written down land costs and Zone certain areas so that this kind of housing will prove be preserved which is much cheaper than redeveloping once you've turned out conversely the City of Minneapolis just just approved over tremendous public disapproval the Laurel Village project, which is going to take out several units of very low-income SRO housing and going to build luxury high-rises in their place and it's been a very strong concern of ours in Minneapolis in San Diego as people who watched a network news broadcast last Sunday may be aware large shelter has been built through the efforts of government and clergy persons who I believe was the mayor some councilperson and Priests and some other Professionals in the area who allowed their beard to grow out for a couple of days went to the free stores and the clothing shells and got an outfit and went out on the streets and were totally amazed by their immediate acceptance by the street people and the help and the assistance they got Finding the things they needed in were also amazed that they walked up to people they'd known for years and called them by name and were shunned and ignored and who therefore spearheaded a private campaign to raise over 7 million dollars for a beautiful shelter in San Diego. And I think those are the kinds of challenges that I would like to see Minneapolis and st. Paul successfully meet (00:41:31) move on to some more listeners with questions about the homeless for Mary Jo Jackson. Go ahead. She's (00:41:35) listening. Okay, I just like to ask what kind of donations would be most useful in terms of money and food volunteer time things like that. And where can we send (00:41:45) them? There certainly are needs in all those areas volunteer time. I would say is the most crucial as I indicated earlier. My office would be willing to take names and phone numbers and try and put you in contact with whoever is in the most need again. That number is eight 700 810 in terms of food because if food is perishable or doesn't store well or shelter has limited storage site. It's usually better to donate money than food and money can be donated directly to the Minneapolis Coalition for the homeless or the Saint Paul Coalition for the homeless or to individual shelters or Housing Programs. (00:42:29) All right. Another caller has a question. Go ahead. You're on the air. (00:42:33) Could you tell me why we don't use abandoned building like the Miller hospital for instance for shelter for the homeless and mean it's got rooms and and facilities and everything. ASF standing empty when we need space for (00:42:49) people. That's another good question. I'm glad to hear people asking some of the questions. I've been asking of some of our Civic planners for the last few months. There are a lot of buildings that aren't being used that would lend themselves readily to shelter conversion hospital rooms with her individual bathrooms are certainly an excellent example, and I don't know why we haven't done more creative planning in this area. I can't answer that question (00:43:11) 15 minutes before one o'clock Mary Jo Jackson director of the Housing Resource program for Lutheran Social Services with us today as we talk about the problems of the homeless your next go ahead, (00:43:21) please. Yes, it seems to me that the best way was when all taxpayers help to help the poor. Now they've cut these programs like GA and Welfare, but we still have the problems. Now, we have to look for volunteers who will help instead of just making people help who always had through taxes know. What am I is my reasoning wrong or what do you think? (00:43:42) I certainly don't think your reasoning is wrong? I believe that if anybody It's too much and somebody else has not enough something's wrong. And if everybody has enough and some people have more that's okay, but everybody in a country with as many resources and as many things as we have here, I can't understand why there's anyone who doesn't have enough and I think it's unfortunate that those of us who do care and are willing to help do bear the whole price for what I believe is kind of a social contract thing. I think as you say all people should have some responsibility to see that everyone's taking care of (00:44:18) and we'll move on to still another caller with a question. Go ahead please you're on the air. (00:44:22) I'm wondering if there are some specific areas in the Suburban outlying areas that churches could probably do a little bit more for the (00:44:33) homeless. I am sure that that's true. We have found that there's been some reluctance for churches to get involved in the Suburban areas in actually providing shelter in those areas. There was recently in Hennepin County a task force meant to look at possible solutions to shelter problems in the Suburban churches seem to be more comfortable with providing funds towards putting someone up in a hotel for a limited period of time or something of that nature rather than actually getting into shelter and I think there's a stereotype about who is in a shelter and about The kinds of people that are not societally acceptable which is very unfortunate and the strange thing about it is that when people do come down and work at the shelter's of the drop-in centers or one of the housing programs, they invariably are converted and they invariably think what are all these wonderful people doing under these terrible circumstances, but without that experience people have these images and I guess that's why there isn't more going on in neighborhoods that feel they would somehow be adversely affected by the presence of such an institution (00:45:38) more listeners waiting with questions about the homeless for Mary Jo Jackson. Hello, you're on the air. (00:45:43) Hi being a lady of marginal employment and also being treated for depression seeing all these bag ladies and articles about them just drives me right up the wall and in Reading case histories of them lately and stuff like that. It just strikes me the amount of depression that these people have even before they become. Listen, they suffer some Calamity and and then just sort of walk away from their homes without any even attempt to to salvage their apartment or secure emergency funding for rent and things like that. What in Minnesota is available or is there any kind of availability of emergency funding or loan programs or whatever where someone who's real marginal could say save an apartment where they wouldn't you know need to have deposits and stuff like that again for their next (00:46:41) apartment. All right a situation such as you describe where person just walks away happens, but not often in usually happens not because a person has given up by because they aren't aware that there are resources and that they do have rights the program that I direct the Housing Resource program is an information and referral agency. And again, if you have a need of that kind of information in terms of what Programs are available in the Twin Cities here. Please call the office and they can help you with that. There are a number of programs and it would be probably not the best use of the time we have available to go in detail and to all of them. But again, you could call the office the numbers 8700810 (00:47:21) our caller mentioned and you have mentioned a couple of times during the course of the conversation here the problem of depression. Would you be able to estimate how many of the homeless people suffer from either depression or some other form of mental problem or chemical (00:47:38) dependency? Well, I know we did a survey in Hennepin County two and a half three years ago where the it showed that 30% of the people staying in the shelters had some kind of history of mental illness and that over 50 percent had some history of chemical problems. But I also know there's a national health survey that says 1 in every 5 people will be affected by mental illness and having some back room. Chemical dependency and alcoholism. I don't believe that anyone in America whose life is not touched by some friend or relative with an alcohol problem. So I find it real difficult to make estimations that say that this is characteristic of the shelter population without a control group of the population at large to compare that to on the other hand. I do believe that a normal person going through the experiences such as losing a job divorce or whatever leads to their homelessness may become depressed through those experiences and may also become depressed or develop a tendency to abuse drugs to escape reality. Once they are homeless just to deal with the depression of that situation there definitely are people who have been previously institutionalized who are now on the street mentally ill and homeless, but I would say probably the people that really require strong mental health services do not comprise more than at most 15 percent of the homeless population in the majority suffer from relatively minor. Optional or attitudinal illness that is coming from the situations. They've been through and their lack of self-esteem because of them. I do believe the chemical dependency which often arises from situation of being unemployed and not having anything to do with your time and nothing to look forward to that sort of feeling can develop as a result of homelessness. And so I think that skews the statistics also. (00:49:30) Alright more listeners have questions for Mary Jo Jackson. Go ahead you're on the air. (00:49:34) Yes. I assume that a lot of the homeless people are homeless because they are unemployable. Are there any educational programs available to them to get them back into employment? (00:49:50) There are not enough of such programs to meet the needs of the quantity of people that are in that situation in Hennepin County in order for the number of people who are considered employable on the work Readiness program to find jobs about 7,000 entry level job. I have to be available if those kinds of jobs are not available than whether or not you are employable by virtue of being mentally sound and physically sound or whatever the categories maybe it doesn't matter because if the job isn't there, it doesn't matter if you're employable and to train for a more technically specific job. First of all, there aren't enough programs that people can get into in terms of obviously if they're on the streets, they don't have much Financial resource and often when people do get into those programs. There are funding problems. They don't get their books at the beginning of the quarter. They're halfway through the class before they're able to purchase their books. They don't have anywhere to stay there. They fall behind in their classes. They drop out things like that happen where services are really poorly coordinated to people so that they aren't able to complete the goals that they do have (00:50:53) is homelessness. Usually a temporary condition or is it chronic for those who face it? (00:51:00) There are people who are chronically homeless this may be due to mental illness chemical dependency of Family Violence problem where something just recurs over and over again, it's clearly there's a personality problem involved but I think there's more the sort of person for example someone who's on assistance where their income just doesn't meet their needs and after a period of time a crisis occurs and they're going to be homeless. So this kind of a cyclic thing or someone gets cut off assistance and they stay with a friend for a while and then that friend gets cut off assistance and they get back on and then they stay together so that there's kind of a rotating rather a cyclic homelessness rather than what you'd call chronic and then there are people also who once they've been through a certain situation their apartment burning down or someone in their family dying or something become chronic because they're not mentally ill enough to come to anyone's attention, but they're not coping with whatever trauma caused her homelessness in the first place. And so they aren't able to use whatever skills. They have to meet their needs. (00:51:59) Let's hear from some more listeners today as we talk with Mary Jo Jackson about homelessness. Hello. You're (00:52:04) on the air. I had the pleasure of working with Mitch Schneider at the community for Creative non-violence and Washington DC and I you mean made me aware of the initiative Drive. They had in Washington DC a couple years back called the initiative 17 campaign to bring to be miscible government's awareness that there should be a right to home to shelter in the city of Washington DC and I understand Mitch was in st. Paul this winter and I want I'm wondering what the status of the initiative Drive is in st. Paul (00:52:41) in st. Paul. There was a right to shelter referendum the result of which was that a shelter board was created to ensure that that enough shelter beds do exist for all homeless persons in Minneapolis. There isn't any such - Municipal Drive in there hasn't been this far any activity in that direction Mitch was here as a part of a national Forum honor. Homelessness which was coordinated by Neil tipped at the University of Minnesota. And he was the keynote speaker and we heard from a number of people who are working in the area of homelessness and other cities across the country and we did find that despite our liberal and high social service kind of image of Minnesota that we have fallen behind in somewhat rested on our laurels in terms of programming for homeless people and dealing with the problem (00:53:29) adequately we have about five minutes left in about that number of callers at see if we can get everybody on. Hello. You're on the (00:53:36) air. I'm calling from South Minneapolis. And first I'd like to thank Mary Jo for the work that she's doing and secondly, I'd like to ask I think that the suggestions that places like Miller hospital or the 2,000 homes that we have in Minneapolis that are vacant are used for the sort of program is an excellent suggestion. And what would you what would you suggest that I do that I could help make that sort of thing happen with our local governments. I'll hang up (00:54:04) now. Thank you. Call your council person call your county commissioner. When attend Coalition for the homeless meetings and find out when these items come on the agenda so that you can be there and say that you think that that's one problem that we have that we realize a lot of people out there agree with us that sometimes resources are being poorly managed and there is enough for everybody if we just straighten that out, but unless they hear from John Q public there's often an attitude that the people who work with the homeless are I think we were described as woolly-headed liberals at one point and rabble-rousers at another point and unless the average citizen who agrees with us gets up and says I agree with you and I'm a taxpayer and I don't like my money being poorly handled in others not being served. Then we won't be able to win this battle (00:54:52) your next. Go ahead please Mary Joe Jackson's listening. (00:54:54) Yeah. I'm from the suburbs myself. I'm curious as to how much of This goes on in the suburbs one and it seems to me that if it's not as prevalent in the suburbs as it is in the main city that that should be a problem that should be addressed by all the suburbs and City of Minneapolis together rather than the soul of this resting on Minneapolis is shoulders because a lot like other Suburban people I work downtown. So, you know, I see a lot of it myself (00:55:29) I agree with you that the responsibility is shared by those communities where the homeless are actually visible and also by those were they aren't there is homelessness and all of our communities, but because services that are available to homeless people tend to be concentrated in urban areas and many of the shelters certainly are in the downtown areas people tend to drift there. Even if they are from rural and Suburban areas consequently. We have a high proportion of people who are from this area, but perhaps not from the city proper and they have simply migrated downtown because Where the things they need are located (00:56:02) time for one or two more. I think go ahead please your next me. Yes. (00:56:06) I'm calling from Spring Lake Park. I want to say that I feel bad for the homeless and I feel angry too because I believe there's got to be some help out there for them. I think that the problem is partly greed, you know on the part of the people that have things and they could be sharing. with the homeless and I just think that Dom well, I guess what I'm saying is pretty deep compared to what you've been talking about, but it just hurts me to think that That's why many people are suffering this way. (00:56:49) Yeah, I agree with you and it is great as part of the problem and not I think also not seeing the homeless people as individuals and seeing this as something that could easily happen to anyone of us given the right set of circumstances and to realize they are just people like ourselves and that they have a right to every opportunity or chance that we would want for ourselves. (00:57:12) Oh, I hate to leave one person left. But unfortunately, we were almost out of time. Let me ask you one very fast question Mary Jo and this will not more than 30 seconds to answer. But what is the long-range solution to this problem? And what is practical given the political realities and the fact of taxes being what they (00:57:29) are? I think the long-range solution is that we start planning for low-income people and their housing as much as we plan for any other aspect of development that we look at the numbers and accepts that low-income people are a part of our population that they're not going to go away if we don't plan for them. They're not going to leave because the planning isn't been done. There's still be there. I think it also So is as the last caller suggested that we all have to realize that we have to share that it's a responsibility we have as responsible members of our society (00:57:57) and there we have to end. Thank you Mary Jo Jackson director of the Housing Resource program for Lutheran Social Services, and also be coming in as chair of the Minneapolis Coalition for the homeless.