(00:00:02) If our studio guests today had been listening to His Radio early in the morning a week ago yesterday here is what he would have heard. (00:00:11) The Grenadian people are asked to block all roads and UPS truck the enemy's progress grenadians. Our country is now under attack at 542 this morning foreign troops began Landing in our country. Our armed forces are engaging them in fierce battle all grenadians report immediately to our respective militia basis all doctors nurses and Medics report to the hospital immediately grenadians. Our country is now underlined. (00:00:41) Obviously that is Radio free Grenada broadcasting news of the US invasion of Tuesday Morning last week. Today's guest is dr. John Crandall, one of the Americans who was subsequently evacuated from the island. He is an associate professor of biochemistry in the medical school. Grenada dr. Crandall, did you indeed your that broadcast Tuesday morning? No, I was asleep at the time. I had awakened very early in the morning at four am hearing a droning above my house. I knew the grenadians were not flying any airplanes and I assume the United States was putting a put protective blanket over the campuses of st. George's University School of Medicine and I got up at 5:30 in the morning and went out on my balcony looked up at the plane made one looping Circle and as it came back for another Circle anti-aircraft batteries, perhaps a hundred yards up the hill from me a shot at the plane and tracers arched over my left shoulder and I knew that the conflict had started. Did you have any premonition that there might be an invasion? I felt that it was indeed possible since I was aware on Sunday. If not Monday that ships that had been. For Lebanon had been diverted over to the Caribbean area and it certainly was a possibility. Yes. Do you think the invasion was a good idea my feeling is that based on the safety of the students know that was not in jeopardy for my understanding of international law. It's a very difficult thing to justify this Invasion under the situation that existed Grenada was not an aggressor nation and consequently. I'm not at all sure that this was a Justified Invasion though. I do believe it's in the best interest from our point of view and for the grenadians that The Invasion took place. I guess we'll ask you to elaborate on that in a bit. But did you personally feel under any danger at all? I mean after all as we understand it you are under a 24-hour curfew anybody who went outside would be shot on sight right all I understood the reason for the curfew there had been a killing of the probably most Peter leader that heifer had existed in Grenada just the week before and it was a measure to protect the people and to prove kind of allow things to simmer down is really what it was. Of course. I didn't like the idea of potentially being shot if I left my my home but I understood the situation I felt secure but I was not going to put myself into a position where that security would be in Jeopardy. Did you feel or did any of your American colleagues down there feel there was any chance of your being taken hostage? I'm sure it entered our minds in the last couple days after the curfew was put in position and we did not have a clear perception of the nature of the government that existed at that point. The people's revolutionary console actually was a general Consul was dissolved within a few days after the shooting of Maurice Bishop. It was to be replaced by another ruling Council of approximately 16 individuals who were not at all involved in the previous government and we did not know their persuasion at all. President Reagan described the people who took over from Bishop as a bunch of what was the word. How did he describe it brutal leftist thugs, would you agree with that characterization? I do not know the individuals who were in that committee nor the nature of their intent. It's five minutes past 12:00. Dr. John Crandall is with us. He is a Minnesota native and one of the Americans who was evacuated from Grenada. Taking your questions for him this noon. If you're listening in the Minneapolis st. Paul area. The phone number to call is two two seven six thousand 2276 thousand in Minneapolis st. Paul in other parts of Minnesota. The toll-free number is 1-800-695-1418 hundred six hundred 529700 toll free within the state and if you're listening in one of the surrounding states, you can call us directly in the Twin Cities at area code 612 2276 thousand now, please if you're calling on your own nickel from outside the Twin Cities area, let Dorothy know when she answers the phone and we'll put you on early so that it won't cost you a lot of money. We have some listeners already on the line. We'll take our first caller now go ahead, please. (00:05:21) Yeah. I'm calling for st. Louis Park by the way, where can you get anywhere? What I was wondering from a purely subjective point of view are is in his own mind. Does he feel that this was Thing that had to be done or simply a naked Power grab by the United States to ensure that the Caribbean remains in American League excluding Cuba. (00:05:50) I don't think it had to be done. I believe that diplomatic activities could have accomplished the same end after a long period of protac protracted period the grenadians were looking for anything that would destabilize their government. They were happy to hear that other. Carrie come countries were not going to honor their currency and that would put economic pressures against their government. Frankly. They were happy to hear that there was an embargo to be placed in position from carry a calm countries and that would have destabilizer govern here. You come to find what that is. Okay. It's a community are an organization and economic organization of Southern Caribbean islands. Now earlier you said that it was a the invasion was a good idea for the United States and for Grenada, even though it wasn't necessary. Can you elaborate on that? Well, I think it has to be looked at from the other side of the invasion the Result a large segment of the Grenadian population wanted this government that they had to cease to function and be replaced by a Democrat democracy, which they have frankly not had since 1974. It was expedient. I think for them. They love freedom. They were in a suppress the society in which they could not express negative feelings about their government or its actions. They weren't too crazy about Bishop either I take it hardly. That's that's incorrect. They loved Bishop. He was a fantastic leader honest trusted whatever he was more of a middle-of-the-road leader and he more or less represented the government in their eyes. They were surprised in the last week to determine to discover that the government was actually a committee organization and that Maurice Bishop was strictly an oracle. Hmm. Okay. Well, let's take another caller. Maybe we'll get further on this point to go ahead please you're (00:07:48) next. Okay, I've I've got two questions or wine. I guess I would just like your opinion on I noted that at the beginning the broadcast when you played that radio transmission that they said we were being invaded by a foreign government didn't specify what government I'm sure that anyone that's versed in military stuff like that would know that it was, you know could tell by the helicopters and uniforms Etc who it was I was wondering if he opinion on why y didn't specify into I was wondering if there was any pressure on the students 21 leave the island by the US government was say pressure by the US government for them to leave this island or to let's say pressure by those medical school to stay at the island. Okay? Okay, (00:08:38) very perceptive here. The announcement about the foreign government. I'm certain that the grenadians understood that the primary power was the United States. They probably also expected that there was a multilateral involvement including Personnel from other Islands. So that may have been the reason for using the term Forum. They had been in expecting an invasion more or less for many years and had through their press indicated that the United States the imperialist power to the north would invade some time as far as pressure to leave is concerned the embassy Personnel or consulate Personnel that came into Grenada two days prior to the invasion. Met with our students and Sunday night on one campus and with about 400 students Monday morning at the other campus. They did not instruct the students to to make a decision to leave. They felt they would lose their jobs if they made such a statement however by innuendo they indicated rather clearly that it might be a good idea if given the opportunity that the students would take a week's vacation finally for your your last question did the administration of the school attempt to influence the students to say us to stay on the island and to some limited extent. Yes. They did they felt I believe that the students really were not in any personal danger or any Americans are other foreigners on the island. We had guarantees from Hudson Austin who was the general of the forces in Grenada prior to the invasion, but the Students perceive that the government was definitely an unstable government and they were not at all ready to accept the guarantees of one Hudson Austin, I would say via the afternoon by Monday afternoon. This would be a half day before The Invasion perhaps 70% of the students given the opportunity. We're ready to leave the island. Why did you leave if you didn't feel you're threatened? Well, I left my home on Tuesday morning. I was isolated completely from the remaining student body and faculty. I went to the Grand anse campus in the morning hoping that maybe I could calm people. It's just a nature of my personality to be that way. I walked into the campus at 5:30 in the morning straight down the Grand anse Beach. There wasn't a soul around at that point. I thought it was a pretty gutsy thing to walk in that morning. Well, that was well your honor their 24-hour curfew weren't you at probably was a I feel that I was there were indications that an evacuation was going to take place and I wanted to be able to provide some type of stabilization if it wasn't a stable say situation on that campus. So I walked in and upon joining that group then whatever the group was going to do I was going to do so when the rains come in you don't start discussing with your liberators whether you're going to add I really wish to stay the decision was made as a group and I went with them but some did stay didn't see a number of students. Perhaps were not evacuated in the first two days did make a decision to stay. I was ready to make that decision. Once I felt the basic conflict is coming to a close that was a that occurred within 30 hours. Anyway, okay 13 after 12. Dr. John Crandall is with us another listener with a question. Go ahead (00:12:21) please. Yes. I've got a couple of questions first of all since Tonight Aston and his associates killed Maurice Bishop and three other top government officials among other women and children when indication. Did you have that you the same thing wouldn't happen to two other people possibly including you and other Americans and second of all, how do you account for the large numbers of Cuban so-called construction workers who had access to large warehouses of arms and were so willing to fight the Marines in the Rangers when they (00:12:59) landed Okay. I'll try to address address that first question. I was fairly convinced that what had happened the killing of Oz of Maurice Bishop and some other cabinet members and ministers and unfortunately citizens citizens at the same time. That was an internal event in the government. That's just a perception of my neck. I can't say that I had any other basis other than just general feelings. As far as the Cubans were concerned. I worked immediately adjacent to the new Point celine's airport and I was seeing Cuban truck drivers and other construction Personnel on a daily basis. I believed at the time that all of the Cubans on the island at a had had some type of military training and may be equivalent to our national guard training. I did not perceive the Cubans at now or at that time as being primarily military Moon under the guise of construction workers or whatever. I'd really don't know how to answer your question about access to Arms. There were arms present as you're well aware far in excess of the needs of the people's revolutionary Army and the people's revolutionary militia and the Cuban needs. My perception is that the island was being a becoming a transshipment point for arms from any number of countries to Little Brush Fire conflicts throughout Central America, maybe the northern part of South American, whatever did you feel that? It was becoming a Cuban Soviet base? I felt a potential was there the Soviets came into the situation. I believe during the last year in other words during the time that I was present. I was beginning to feel that there could be a power struggle developing between the Cubans and the Russians the Cubans. I think what to do is assert their control. I see them as somewhat independent of the Soviet Union in their own foreign policy and I think they were exercising their own policy with respect to Grenada. The Russians were coming in perhaps to get a piece of the pie. I think they wanted to put in a satellite tracking station, maybe something to listen and long-range radar to the US or whatever. This was the situation. I think that was developing. I felt there was animosity between the two groups. Okay. We have more listeners waiting with questions. Dr. John Crandall is a Minnesota native. He was one of the Americans evacuated last week from Grenada. Go ahead. You're (00:15:47) next. The students when they appeared on television, we're going through a great deal of cheering and kissing the ground that cetera and I'd like to know if that was Montana's or if that wasn't anyway arranged or encouraged by our government agents. I'd also like to know your perspective as to whether the students in Grenada represented a real potential to become the next hostages as they were in Iran. Thank (00:16:20) you. Okay, what you saw of the behavior of the students was definitely spontaneous. I need to tell you that if you remember that, I think I said 70% of the students were ready to leave on Monday afternoon the day before The Invasion the situation that existed there that brought about that large number was that there was almost a classic situation it would develop hysteria. We did not have adequate knowledge. What was going on? We did not trust our local information sources and the information that was available from say Barbados radio or Trinidad radio was inadequate as well. And then the students perceived a danger to their own personal lives and with that potential hysteria developed and after a passing through 24 hours of a Warfare situation immediately around them and these people are coming out of New York. We don't have those things up there. This was a spontaneous response. They were glad to be out but I don't think psychologically many of them were harmed and as they learn from the American news now there seems to be a lot of support for that idea. No, could the students represent our become hostages conceptually. Yes. I'm sure it entered into the students minds. But again, my perception was that the likelihood was very low we did not represent an extension of the United States Embassy in any way we'd had no official capacity in governmental Affairs and they were a large number of us that have to feed us folks. So I really don't believe that any Americans or any foreigners were really in a situation to be taken hostage that could be quite different. I don't have detailed information that perhaps others do another listener has a question for dr. Crandall. Go ahead. You're on the (00:18:17) air. This will fit very nicely with what the doctor was just saying now, I'm one who has a great curiosity about the existence of a fairly large medical school which appears to be American on a small island in the And I can see the AMA keeping numbers low salaries can be high and I can appreciate a lot of other because your motives but it could this be construed as a another imperialist adventure to take advantage of low labor costs due to the medical students have low low paid servants down there. And what is the what would you say is the reason for the school's existence? And for most of the students choosing to study medicine in that strange little island? (00:19:09) Okay. Well you really getting into it here. St. George's University School of Medicine came into existence about 1978. It was a period of time in which the United States was perceiving a need for Physicians medical schools in the United States. Sometimes we're doubling their own classes at least four or five new schools developed in the United States. St. George's University School of Medicine is nothing more than a school of medicine and it conducts his first two years basically the academic portion of the training on the island of Grenada. The students that attend st. George's our first of all paying a tuition cost which is lower than a typical American school and certainly much lower than a private American school it it is located in the island of Grenada because the initial investors who are American Physicians to a large extent in the New York City area found an environment where they could rent facilities Motel type facilities Hotel type facilities at a very low cost. So yes economics were involved in the location of the school who attends the school. Well, basically it's 95% American and many of these students have applied to enter into American schools. But for one reason or another we run successful in that attempt some of these students are older than medical students in the United States and and medical schools. We have a cut-off age at which they began to limit students older than a sage from coming in. It may not be explicit. But at least implicitly that it does exist. What age what age roughly I really cannot say I think it would be depend upon the school's it might be close to 28 or 30 something on that order. But Grenada didn't do this and George's didn't do that. St. George has allowed students who are older than the typical cut off to enter and but there are not many applicants who apply who are say older than about 35. You teach biochemistry in the school down there, right? That's correct. How did you native of Red Wing? Minnesota wind up in Grenada? Well, I was more or less setting myself up for a career change and I was in Minnesota the year prior to going down to st. George's I was a taking business administration courses by extension through Mankato State University. Then we had a very cold winter. This would be essentially the spring of 1980. Two, I believe yes and one night. I was reading Science magazine which has advertisements in it for positions of various kinds post-doctorate positions teaching positions, whatever an 18 inch snowfall was coming in. The wind was whirling around at say 10 15 miles an hour whistling. It was cold folks. It was 10 below and I saw this ad and I said, hey at least it's worth a letter to write to this place. They invited me down to Grenada at Easter time that year. I spent two weeks as a guest lecturer. I liked what I saw. It was seemed to be a challenge. They apparently liked what they saw and they offered me a contract which I accepted. All right, and you were there up until just last week right more listeners are waiting with questions for dr. Crandall. Go ahead. You're next. (00:22:51) Yes. Your last questioner asked almost exactly what I wanted to but I'll continue a little bit from their first are there. Other medical schools of this type will cated either in Caribbean or Central or South America that perform virtually the same function that you've just described and also what what do you see is the future St. George's as it stands. Now, (00:23:17) there are indeed other medical schools in the Caribbean region. I'm somewhat biased but st. George's University. I believe is the quality institution among perhaps six foreign medical schools that are located at various islands in the Caribbean, I believe st. George's University School of Medicine is stable. I have talked to our leadership who have offices in New York City. They plan to continue the existing semester at some location within two weeks and I expect to be in the classroom. Maybe by this time a couple weeks from now and in January, it may possibly be that we will be located back on the island. Nadeau so I think the future of this school is insured. Okay, 25 minutes after 12. Dr. John Crandall is with us. We have more listeners waiting also a couple of lines open in the Minneapolis st. Paul area 2276 thousand if you have a question, in other parts of Minnesota, the toll-free number is (00:24:16) 1-866-376-8255. What the Bishops government a few things that it is government has the general support of the populace in Grenada and could we have helped by recognizing Bishops government or giving them some support would you describe your experience of their government? (00:24:44) Okay, initially. I think the government had the support of the people. It was a government replacing a dictatorship which was very oppressive the previous Dictator by the name of Eric Gary surrounded himself with a group of thugs called the Mongoose gang and simply ruled the island by Terror. He also developed a military force of perhaps two hundred soldiers and this is something very unusual for the Caribbean. They had no chance to express negative opinions about the government. If they did they were likely to be intimidated by the Mongoose gang members at the very least. They could be interrogated likely they could be incarcerated maybe just disappear or perhaps even be killed found killed. So it was a bad situation and The initial days of the Revolution certainly we're I believe met with positive response from the people. I've more or less forgotten the last half of the question Bob. Do you really we had had to deal with how the people responded to Bishop after the initial part of it then? Okay, they responded very positively to the fact that Maurice Maurice Bishop came into rule that he accepted the position of prime minister for the government. He was he was a lovely der from prior to the Revolution and actually was not a member of the new Jewel movement, which is really a Communist front organization. That was the dominant party in the island. So he was well loved let's government was supported and really we must remember that the government did a number of very positive things. They work to increase Tourism they did initiate this cover this project to develop a new airport, which they really do need. They promoted education. They had a national health insurance scheme, which was new they provided free dental attention. You really can't push that too far because that was really extractions were made available a number of very positive things. So aside from the suppression that developed later. Yes, they were supportive of the government. Okay. How did they--how did the Cubans get so actively involved in there and following from that the Soviets? Okay Maurice Bishop immediately upon being installed as prime minister in 1979 would be March went shopping for a pet project that the new Jewel movement movement had and that was the construction of the new airport facility. The grenadians informed me that their first Contact or his first Contact was with American Representatives. And apparently only limited funds were available with the people. He contacted for any project be at an airport or whatever. The grenadians tell me that Maurice Bishop became very upset about this fact that that funds couldn't be made available fast that there was a verbal battle between Maurice Bishop the Prime Minister and the representative the United States government on the island became very hostile Maurice Bishop stomped out. His pride was hurt essentially then went shopping elsewhere. The Soviet Union was perhaps approach and certainly Cuba and Cuba said, yes, we will help you provide technical help money, whatever. So the United States possibly lost an opportunity way back in 79 that's possible as told to me from the grenadians. Yeah more listeners are waiting with questions. Hi. You're (00:28:23) next. I'd like to get back to the potential hostage problem. If you will remember and you were in the United States as I understand it when the Americans were taken hostage in Iran, you've you've got to remember that the Shah was deposed. That whole many flew in from Paris. And the Carter government had the opportunity to get American citizens out, but they were assured that everything would be fine. There seems to be a lot of Similarities between the situation a little bit more spread out in time as far as the ROM was concerned and I think you may be lucky that you're not a hostage. I will hang up. Now (00:29:25) that may be true. One thing. I would like to indicate to you. Is that Hudson Austin who became the military leader of the interim situation here after the killing of Maurice Bishop approached our vice Chancellor, dr. Geoffrey Bourne and in discussions with him as baby about the second day of the curfew he indicated that he had tried to make contact with United States and it was that he was unsuccessful. He wanted to have diplomatic Personnel come into the island and discussed the political situation on the island with him. He was apparently unsuccessful in that and asked Geoffrey Bourne if using the agencies of the school if we could contact the United States, And act as a liaison to get consulate Personnel in to assess the situation. We used our Telex on Saturday to contact the people in Barbados and perhaps the state department and through us then the first contact with American governmental officials are Representatives was made they came in on Sunday. They had talks with the government. We were discussing the matter of opening the airport and providing transportation for students to the airport. The airport was closed liat, which is our major transporter friendly Island could not disperse passengers coming in. So it was not going to fly in and it expected to be able to receive no passengers coming out someplace. I don't have detailed information at this point someplace difficulties arose in the deliberations between our representatives and Hudson, Austin. Currently the United States government was not convinced that a serious effort was being made and I do not know whether that's true or not to get the people out. So all I know is that we were swept up in a series of events very quickly and our decisions were made for us. The administration also indicated that they didn't seem to know who was in power from day to day down there didn't know who to who to talk to who to trust that may be true. The matter of who to trust is a real problem. I think they should have been able to identify had they had sufficient knowledge of the governmental structure. They should have identified Hudson Austin and maybe through a burger other governments could have identified him as indeed the spokesman for the ruling situation. Okay more listeners are waiting with questions. Go ahead and you're next. (00:31:59) So I just want to make a comment and then ask a couple of questions the comment relates to the fact that according to CBC Radio, Canada. National public radio and Sunday is leaflet, which itself cancel those flights under the suspicion by the Canadian government that doing so would give a pretense to the American claim that the students couldn't be flown out and therefore were hostages. Therefore the invasion was legitimate on that basis. I think there's been a lot of deception by our government with respect to the role of leaflets and the nations are controlled the same Nations, which ask for The Invasion. The questions are could you describe in more detail the improvements and decrements which occurred between the bishop and a government and the people of Granada after the 79 Revolution was it in fact and Eastern European type Communist dictatorship or was it pluralistic and they Cubans play a constructive role. Terms of economic social and other development and what was the nature of the relationship between the medical school and that government? Oh, I wish I were a political (00:33:18) scientist here and not a biochemist. In the perception of the people, I believe that the government they thought they had was something approaching a dictatorship a benevolent dictatorship in which Maurice Bishop had dominant control as I think I said earlier that grenadians reported to me in the last couple days that they were a bit surprised to find out that they had a ruling committee and that Maurice Bishop really was only a spokesman for a Central Committee. So that sort of Jarred their opinion about the government. As far as the Cuban roll is concerned or the Soviets for that point friendship. Organizations were being set up between Cuban representatives and groups of grenadians the same thing for the Soviets, I believe essentially as far as improvements and I'm not sure if I'm touching your question. It's it's because this is an area that I'm not well versed they were doing a number of things visibly which looked very good to the Grenadian people. They came in with a number of Physicians for example, and I think that's an excellent way to approach country. They were are the government was instrumental in decreasing unemployment and they're very proud of saying that they dropped unemployment from close to 50% in 74 to perhaps below. 15% in 1907 are I mean that should say that 50% in 79 to below 15% in 1983. They had housing repair programs road construction any number of things so I'm afraid I'm not touching it. Can you help me? You know, I think you've answered that about to the extent you thank you feel comfortable with so that's one who listened to with another question. Go ahead, please. Hi there you're on the air. (00:35:27) Oh, hi, I want to get back to the school the type of school that was run down there. Remember last week that I was listening to NPR. They had interviewed a woman and said that the only reason she was upset about the 24-hour curfew was that she couldn't go out bar hopping and I was just wondering what kind of reading does st. George's have, you know, like how well do the students pass the various State Medical Board Test and what kind of ratings AMA give your students your graduates. (00:36:03) Okay. I wish that I heard heard that and discovered the source folks. There is no bar hopping going on. There's only about three places at the students frequent and after about two or three trips to that in a semester. They're so bored. Frankly. There's they're not going to those my perception as instructor is virtually the opposite to give you an example. I teach in the second semester and for classes that come in in August kids will come down with the suntan. But even though we have some of the most fantastic beaches water temperatures of 80 degrees or 75°, son all over the place. These kids are going home at Christmas time as pale as I don't know what there's a tremendous amount of studying going on these students come down to the island of Grenada with a strike against them. They did not or were not successful in getting into an American Medical School and they are out to prove. Cause it is not unusual for 40 percent of the incoming class any incoming class to transfer into an American Medical School somewhere by the conclusion of the second year, which would be the academic portion of their training and there is a number of years experience we have so we can look at what's happening to these students when they get into the American medical schools and I believe we have data to support the concept that they are typically performing in the upper half of the classes that they are joining in the American medical schools. So, how does the American Medical Community react to the graduates of st. George the people who don't transfer but who stay there are they generally well-respected or do they have difficulty getting jobs just as they had difficulty getting in to school right the school itself began as I said about 1978 and we've only begun to have students appearing in the Programs and to take positions in the medical community. So I simply cannot answer that on the basis of any knowledge. Okay. It's a 21 minutes before the our dr. John Crandall is our guest he is a teacher of biochemistry at the medical school at St. George and Grenada and he was one of the Americans evacuated from the island last week. We have a couple of phone lines open in the Minneapolis st. Paul area 2276 thousand if you have a question to to 76 thousand in other parts of Minnesota, the toll-free number is 1-866-560-4440 surrounding State call us directly area code 612 2276 thousand. Here's our next listener. Go ahead. Please (00:38:42) louder I read that a Chancellor from the medical school over there chin should he's mine. First of all, he says that the students very saved from the day after he said they were not saved. It is their knowledge in Italy know that our Ally well against the Invasion of Grenada. And finally I have here Time Magazine September 12th, 83 page 25 to vote the hotel desk sits behind Giant metal grates, and we're bulletproof vest druggist position revolvers and cops in statistics spots on their tear come their jobs. This is in Downtown LA my question may sound as horrible joke, but it isn't shouldn't we attack downtown LA and start again either? (00:39:44) I thank you for the opinion. I don't know I have no answer Bob. All right, we'll take a look. I think that gentleman was simply making a comment and we'll move on to another listener with a question. Go ahead (00:39:54) please hi. I called in earlier when the question but I had a question a comment that I'd like to thank dr. Crandall for being on the program today. It's nice to talk to someone that was actually there and it gets and was there for a while so you can get you feel like you're getting some kind of inside information. I just like to also say I don't personally responsible for any of the US government's or the grenade and governments moves in the sink. And I don't know if this is for him or for Bob Potter. Actually. I was wondering if there was any opinions on the censorship censorship of the news coverage that occurred on the island. I thought was kind of curious and I also thought it was curious when our government troops took films of these happy people and stuffs. My just looked awful kind of phony to me for one thing. (00:40:44) Okay, Doctor you had indicated earlier you didn't think the response of the students was phony that it wasn't staged not at all. No, and the response of the grenadians if you've seen some happy faces down there that's not staged either a significant number of the population were welcoming Soldiers with incense open arms and the operation down there. I believe was very selective and rarely have been a few reports of any civilians that were injured or killed. I know this that by misinformation supposedly a mental hospital or a wing of a mental hospital near the Richmond prison area had been hit but other than that, it was very well-engineered operation. One of the issues that arose during all of this was the fact that the Cuban resistance was so much stronger than had been anticipated and the US officials have laid the blame for that on faulty or just know Intelligence information whatever why do you suppose with a medical school down there operated by the United States there weren't any people providing intelligence. I mean, you know, how many Cubans were down there? If somebody had asked you you could have told them I could have told him in a general way at my number would have been about half the amount. I think perhaps that were discovered here because I was seeing only a portion of the Cuban construction crew and they may have been evolved elsewhere in the island. The Cuban resistance was strong but it wasn't strong because of each Cuban individual representing a well-trained soldier number of Cubans were I believe poorly trained and were rounded up or became hostages of the United States aren't captured by the United States watch out here very quickly, but there was a smaller number who are perhaps quite efficient in say guerrilla warfare or whatever and when they took off to the Hills, It represented a some difficult for us to deal with the geography of the country was conducive to that kind of behavior you about. This is a mountainous island in the center. The highest altitude is something like 27 or 2700 feet 2,700 feet and it provided a lot of nooks and crannies to hide in that's a tremendous amount of foliage on the island. It's a near tropical situation where 12 degrees off the equator. Okay. Another listener is waiting has a question for dr. Crandall. Go ahead, (00:43:17) please. Yes, I do. I'm going to South Minneapolis this kind of mentioned earlier that he had been witness to or heard about the original application to the United States for funds to finance. The long airstrip the 9,000 Mile airstrip and had been rejected by the United States while he was there. What I would like to know is that he get an impression that some sort from the grenadians that some sort of economic destabilization plan on the part of the United. It's the international monetary fund the World Bank was in progress and that they were in fact being driven into the hands of the Russians and the Cubans and that subsequently the United States could invade and say see we told you so did you get any sense of grenadians feeling that they will be economically destabilized by American (00:44:01) forces? Okay about that original application. The information I have there is from Grenadian sources. I'm an oracle for them at this point that they initially tried to contact the United States representatives in the time that I was there, which is just a little over a year and a quarter. I wasn't aware of an attempt of the United States to more or less freeze-out Grenada. There was very little trade the Grenada was seeking with the United States the foodstuffs that were coming in or coming in from New Zealand and Canada and Argentina and wherever else but there were very few obviously American-made products coming. To the island. So if there was a freeze I'll attempt. It could have been the Grenadian government had anticipated this and it used supply routes from other countries. There had been some news accounts of missile silos being built on the island where you personally aware of any of that or had you heard about any of that kind of activity. No, I was not aware of missile silo construction. I was aware of where the military bases were in a general way calvini point. I was aware of which was apparently the location where this might have taken place. It was a relatively long Peninsula, which was used exclusively for military activities to train soldiers how to shoot and whatever I was aware of offloading of small arms last met some of our students more or less even watch this and they had a general idea of where the convoys were taking the Small Arms or whatever it was. They were offloading from the Soviet ships. So I had knowledge of that. I knew there was a basic carrier qu parts of the island were off-limits to you then write. In fact right in front of my house. Perhaps about a hundred yards away. There's an area called quarantine point and this was a little Merit military Barracks two days before fighting erupted. There were approximately 50 Grenadian soldiers out there with some lighter skinned advisors, whoever they were and they were working with anti-aircraft guns and so on and this was a guarded Point as I walk to the school each morning, I could look down the road and see the guard posted and on occasion. I would wake up to a little Rapid fire from machine guns. I figured maybe a mongoose or something. I shuffled through the grass and it scared the individual who is on duty how much of the island was off-limits would you say? So in terms of area I would say far less than 1% Yeah, but those were of course the critical one percent you bet. Ya. Alright another listeners waiting with a question. Go ahead, (00:46:50) please. Okay. I'm following what this present the previous person was talking about. I seem to remember that Reagan or some people within his administration had made comments statements about the government of Bishop down there in Grenada lumping them together lumping it together with the Nicaraguan government in Cuba and and related to that would be the possibility of this destabilization effort. I'm wondering how you How you saw the Canadian government's perception of the American government. And also what relations were under Gary before that's enough. (00:47:39) Okay, the perceptions of the Grenadian government toward the mirror arkin's based upon the press and radio free Grenada. They would devote at least some space or some time to condemning the actions of the United States and as an imperialist aggressive country. They basically we're hostile toward us they've selected news from the American Media. It would be the type of news that would put Americans into a bad light a very good propaganda machine was operating as far as the giri regime now, that's something else again my understanding and I'm not a political scientist. My understanding is that the Gary regime was supported by the United States government. I'm sure we did not like the tactics that he was using. Maybe we didn't pay a whole lot of attention to what was going on down there. But we wanted a government that least we could have dialogue with and perhaps at the time. We were aware that I group such as the new Jewel movement, which is a communist sympathizing group existed on the island and by supporting the existing situation. We were perhaps preventing the immediate introduction of Less friendly situation my own opinion here is that that's rather short-sighted policy. If indeed that was the policy that was in place. You don't support somebody. That's essentially bad. I don't believe because you fear something else another listener has a question for dr. Crandall. Go ahead. You're on the air. (00:49:24) Hi. I'm from Houghton Michigan. And I was really wondering about what I'd heard on the media that the construction company building. This Airline. Our Airfield was British construction firm and that it had admittedly hired a lot of Cubans to do the work, but that it was actually owned by a British firm. What in your opinion. I know you're not a political scientist that in your opinion. How does this affect our relationship with Great Britain over and above the fact that we ignored Thatcher's Advice on the matter. I'm just trying to get a dialogue going. I know that this will be your opinion that you aren't versed in these matters, but just making a comment on it for us. (00:50:12) Okay, my understanding of the construction operation is that it actually involves several countries. I'm not certain that I can tie it the exact Parts with the correct Nation, but I'm going to give an attempt. I believe that the contract for the electronics in the tower and all that would go high technology stuff was contracted to a British firm. I believe the runway lights were contracted to a firm in Finland the basic construction moving dirt and Paving that was handled by the Cubans and using Cuban technical advisors. I frankly don't know the nationality of the chief architectural or whatever you call it advisor for the But I think his name was Bob Smith. At least. I know he's not a Russian. I really don't know as far as our relation to Great Britain. I don't believe that this business Arrangement probably has any significant impact on our own National relationship to Great Britain at seven minutes before the artist. Take our next call. Go ahead, please. (00:51:27) That you know that some of the grenadians well enough to if they had their choice and if Bishop had not been assassinated would they freely choose to return to the status quo before the assassination and the Takeover or do you feel that they would prefer another alternative and which alternative did you think the people would choose if they could freely choose? (00:51:51) Okay. Well that's difficult. First of all Bishop was incredibly loved and they would have tolerated and accepted the existing government providing Bishop was in position to exercise a considerable expression. I think Bishop was trying to get a little bit more power in the government then just one member of a committee and as an oracle of the committee operation and there was a power struggle going on at that time between Bernard coard was find Finance Minister and I think he had a dual role as Deputy Prime Minister and it was that power struggle which existed for about a year probably set up the situation for the assassination attempt. I honestly think the grenadians would prefer a different form of government in which they could freely elect Bishop into a democratic form. That's what they really wanted. Here's another listener with the qual. Go ahead please you're on the (00:52:50) air. Thank you. I'm from South Minneapolis. I like to just really two questions are related. One more you mentioned tuition costs. I want to know the exact amounts of tuition room and board and secondly, what are what are the income levels of the parents to send their students there? (00:53:09) Okay, an honest question in which I cannot provide the information and tuition costs on a per semester basis must be in the range of four thousand five hundred dollars per semester. Give or take a couple hundred dollars housing costs. If they're living on campus. I believe they're paying something on the order of a thousand dollars a semester and that are twelve hundred dollars a semester and that might include food. I just haven't I should know this, but I'm sorry that I don't the income of the parents. I have even less information about a number of them obviously as in any medical school had parents who were already Physicians and I would expect they were probably earning quite adequate salaries others. I know examples that are obviously not coming from an economic situation like that. They are receiving loans or applying for loans to complete their education. So it's a broad spectrum. I think of parents we have about five minutes. Left and more callers. Go ahead. You're next. (00:54:10) Yes. I'm calling from Concordia College in Moorhead Minnesota. I just wanted to thank first of all Casey CM for putting an excellent new show on about Grenada. We're kind of out of the way here in college. You never hear the information. And secondly, I wanted to ask a question. You mentioned that you heard some some anti aircraft or possibly you saw some training on anti-aircraft or you knew of yes, first of all, did that in any way would that lead to any foreshadowing that the grenade in this knew that there would be a military intervention on the United States part? And secondly, I was curious. How do you feel you feel Grenada will be better off having United States intervene and allowing them to set up their own form of government once again, (00:55:04) Okay, I believe simply training Armed Forces not is not by itself. Something that foreshadowed that the United States would invade many governments train their forces in anticipation of the unknown, but I can tell you that through their newspapers. They were indicating that the United States was the enemy and that they sometime in the future did expect to be invaded. Are they better off now? The answer is definitely yes, the possibilities of this nation are tremendous. They they have natural resources which if exploited by the nation itself and if they can tap the profits and keep it within the country a tremendous opportunity exists here for a very strong growing economy to develop a stable government and in a sense a form of a paradise regained. What is the basis of their economy right now, we'll take another call in a minute the basis of their economy. They are shipping spices. They have nutmeg mace cinnamon. They're also have introduced bananas in the last 20 years following a hurricane as far as the government is concerned the medical school, which has a total of about 700 students on the At any one time introduces perhaps 10 to I've heard numbers like 30% of the income which that government is using for its projects. So also there's a lot of money that's being sent into Grenada by a grenade former grenadians who are living elsewhere such as in the United States are many of them in the New York area. We have about two minutes left time for probably one more question and answer go ahead. You're next. (00:57:15) Negotiations going on there and some endless is that they believe the perception by the radicals and Grenada the bishop was moving more towards the center and More tour being friendly United States probably accounted for his assassination. Do you agree with that? (00:57:33) Right my understanding about Bishops trip to the United States is that unfortunately, he met primarily minor officials that he was not given access to high government officials that may have been very frustrating the mere fact that he came here was a very positive step I think for our country in the he was perhaps had the potential of being recognized as the middle-of-the-road leader that he really wanted to be in his own government's radical said exactly what you're indicating that. Again reported by grenadians that maybe bishop was becoming dangerous individual and he was maybe thinking of moving more toward the west and the committee that was ruling probably could not handle that situation. Dr. Crandall. I'm sorry. We'll have to stop you there. We run out of time. Thank you very much for coming in and visiting with us today. Dr. John Crandall her native of Red Wing Minnesota who spent about a year teaching at the St. George medical school on Grenada and was evacuated last week. Thanks to Dorothy Hanford for answering the phones Tom Wilma the engineer today's broadcast of midday was made possible by Slumberland and the Lay-Z-Boy showcase shops. This is Bob Potter.