(00:00:00) Barbara medicine has joined us in the studio author of him. Right? Well, I was taking a guest Barbra to tell you the honest truth is the first one is guessed. Right? Is that right? Well, that's that's lucky. You have had a very busy schedule of appearances around the Twin Cities today. I sure have have you had an opportunity to catch your breath. Well, I tell you something really strange. I just don't get tired of talking about my blah. Well I can I can well imagine that would be the case. Your book is a history of television news really right from the very beginning on through the present. It's a lot more than just the inside story of some of the personalities that really Chronicles what happened and evaluate some of the conditions that accompanied those developments. I guess one of the more interesting questions of of all this is how important the television news anchors are does Dan Rather and some of the other anchors do more than just read the news? Yeah. You better believe it know that Today the anchor the anchor of all three of these newscasts. They really are there's a lot of people of course go into deciding. It's a massive undertaking, you know, the evening news people probably wouldn't have any idea how many hundreds of people are involved. And so there are lots of levels of decision making but within that whole mix the anchor no doubt is the decisive voice in that whole decision making process as to what is going to go into that 22 minutes of news. They have an impact do they on the careers in fortunes of the correspondence? You better believe it producer. Oh, yeah, I mean that today it's really the anchor is the one that the the the the correspondence and the producers have to please if their careers are going to advance. How did all this develop? Why are these anchors Soul Almighty powerful? Well, you know, it's nothing that happened overnight and in a way the Network's you might say created their own monsters, you know other countries almost every other country. In fact uses read Or actors to present the news and even when they use journalists, they generally rotate them. The deliberate effort has been made to de-emphasize the personality. And by the way, a lot of listeners will have had a chance to see this recently when we've seen the the task correspondent on TV, you know, isn't it amazing. I mean, it's usually some sort of grim almost faceless looking character shot from halfway across the room sitting behind a sterile desk. This is intentional a you are supposed to be hearing the voice of tasks. You're not supposed to be getting Dan rather's news or Tom brokaw's news. Of course in Western Europe. It's not you know, it's not so so grim-looking. They generally use personable people, but they have not sought to build up the moral authority of their news readers and when they have elections or other major national events, usually these somebody different for it here. We use the same / there is no God given law, you know, why after the same guy reading the news every night and plus officiating? Over conventions in elections in space shots in the rest of it. So the the anchor the Network's themselves. In other words have promoted this super anchor concept and then what's happened, of course in recent years. It's become so competitive. Once you had a three Network race going on once ABC really got in a serious way which it did in about by about 78 which was signaled by the naming of roone. Arledge is president of ABC News. Once it became a three Network race, everybody started chasing the same people and this really started bidding salaries up and because because our anchors do have such a multi-faceted job and of course have to be personally appealing all that there really aren't that many people to fill the bill. So everybody's chasing the same sort of small handful of people with the right stuff and not only has that bid their salaries up. It's also bid their prerogatives up to mean an agent will walk in today and say look, you know, I mean, it's not To give my client a million and a half dollars a year. We also have to make sure that he's going to have maybe three of his own documentaries or and we want to make sure that he has the right environment on the evening news so that he's going to shine other words. The thinking is very much like the thinking in Hollywood. We're big stars like Burt Reynolds are making sure the script makes them look good. Now, I don't want exaggerated. I don't want to say that, you know to date you really can't show really a perversion of the news process, but I think it's still worth noting that this is the direction that we're moving in. It's about 12 minutes past the hour Barbara metazoa is with us and if you have questions about television news, we invite your calls to to 76 thousand is the number in Minneapolis and Saint Paul to to 76 thousand in other parts of Minnesota. The toll-free number is 1-800-695-1418 hundred sixty-five 29700. Good anywhere Within The state of Minnesota and if you're listening in one of the surrounding states or in Ontario and have a chance to catch television news from this country. If you have a question call us directly in the Twin Cities at area code 612 2276 thousand. I'm not mistaken. We've got some people on the line already. Go ahead your first May we have your coffee shop. Yeah, there you are. (00:05:22) I didn't hear you. Click in. Yeah. Well, sorry about that. I'm going to st. Louis Park. I was wondering what her opinion is of radio for news where you don't have to look at a personality. You don't have to worry about a voice but you get news and I was thinking back I grew up in the 30s and 40s and we used to listen to the radio and it had immediacy and you learn to listen and what you got was news. (00:05:52) Well, as a matter of fact radio is a better instrument for news than television because there's more time on radio, you know, you get to explain things I myself for example, the the conversational format such as we're engaging in now as a pretty good format for information. Plus there is the time, you know, when you go on television on a talk show, sometimes you're lucky if you get three or four minutes, but I think Gentleman's memory may be failing him a little bit as I discovered when I was researching the evening Stars news. There was not a whole lot of news on the radio in the 30s and 40s. It wasn't until World War II C news was a big headache to the net to the Network's first of all, I can hardly sell the show. So they lost money second of all a created controversy. There were always threats of reprisals that the local newspapers. I mean there were there were there were Wars practically the local newspapers would not carry the radio schedules and so news was just a big giant headache and very little of it was done as a matter of fact in I think I've got the year in the book 1936 CBS, which was generally considered the leader in news and public affairs had won five minute newscast at four clock 15 minute newscast. I think earlier in the day and a 15-minute newscast at 11 o'clock. Now, they did have some commentators, but they were and speaking Personalities they were personalities. I mean they were opinion mongers, you know, some of them were out-and-out propagandists people like Bo Carter for example Fulton Luis jr. But it wasn't until World War II when they're became a real appetite and a gentleman is right word immediacy people wanted to know what was happening while it was happening when the bombs were falling what was happening. And so people then began really to you know to sit up all night and listen to those those newscasts particularly Edward r-- Murrow from London and he really did capture the hearts and minds of the public in a big way which is still stunning. If you have an opportunity back and listen to that. Oh, he was wonderful interesting you point out in the book that the early people in television news were more interested in being on radio than they were on TV. They thought it was a demotion when they were forced to go and stand in front of the tube. Yes, isn't that interesting and that's partly because you know radio was already well developed in the 40s, but when Network when television came along really got geared up after the war the first real Network news event was the 40 Conventions and Philadelphia and certainly none of Murrow and his boys were anxious to get anywhere near that primitive laughable thing. They called television and it was that that was part of the problem television was so cumbersome in the early days. It took him days to get a live shot set up. There was that pancake makeup in the lights, you know, the lights were very blinding and hot in the early days and it seemed to the the kind of these Olympian figures and radio that television was show business. They they didn't want anything to do with it. And it was no great honor in the early days to Anchor, you know, the anchors were were kind of like collect on his glorified announcers almost like game show host. In fact the most most of them were doing game show hosts alternatively, you know, when they weren't doing the evening news, they weren't seen as as much different the real test of an anchor in those days was the ability to keep on going smoothly when things went wrong because the Technics, you know that the technical side of it was so bad for so many years that that like John, For example who was a anchor of the ABC evening news and the 50s. I remember talking to his producer. He said, you know, we all used to have an ulcer mean that the film was always breaking down. But the thing about about daily was he always had a bunch of wire copy with him, you know what he could smoothly explain what you would just you know, failed to see and that was that was the the primary characteristic of an Acumen could roll with the punches. It was really really live back then. Yeah. We have more listeners with questions for Barbara matter so high you're next. (00:09:50) Yes. I have a couple of questions regarding not the network news anchors, but the people that they work with the what field reporters you might call them. Can you give me an insight into the into the chain why they changed networks, you know does one network go on a rate of others or to they go after certain person or does a certain person want to go switch to another Network, you know, you see your face has changed networks and those wondering why? (00:10:13) Yeah. Well, I think you're right the somebody will for example Get an offer from say a CBS correspondent might get an offer just a better offer from ABC, you know, which is also help build up the correspondence salaries incidentally few years back. Correspondence. Everybody thought everybody TV was making a fortune right correspondents were probably making thirty five forty thousand now, they're making you know, sixty five seventy eighty a hundred thousand. So this this this kind of rating not only goes on at the anchor level. It also goes on one correspondence used to be you know, that there was such a thing as Network loyalty when Network news back in the 60s when it was seemed like a kind of a grand Crusade. I mean management really only one of those news divisions there to gain Prestige to get good write-ups from the critics and and if they lost money so much the better because I think it go to the government say, well you we are making these obscene profits from our commercial, you know Prime Time programming, but we need it because we're spending so much money on news. So those were wonderful days in television that there was a lot of competition between NBC and CBS and very little Network jumping the salaries. I mean people they weren't bidding against each other everybody kind of had their place and CBS was number well for a lot of that time CBS was number one and BC comfortable solid number two and ABC somewhere bringing up the rear and you didn't have this these bidding wars going on. There's no net net people tend to not to change network so much then Network loyalty had something to do to not with Dan rather's ultimate decision to stay at CBS rather than Yap to NBC test ABC really did because actually they contracted at the roone Arledge offered him. Ruin our lives wage this incredible courtship to convince Dan Rather to come over and be an anchor at ABC we're going back now to about 1980 and it was you know, he was offering him a contract that would have gone up in steps to three million dollars a year and a lot of other perogative. He said okay, you know, your office will be on the fourth floor with the rest of the executive sit and you will have a voice in everything. It goes on in ABC News in essence. He was offering the Sun the moon and the stars but there were two things that he couldn't offer him. One of them was sole anchor Arledge was determined to make this multiple. Anchor format work at that point. Now, of course, he he's acknowledged it is going to win by picking a sole anchor. The other thing is it wasn't CBS. I mean rather had really, you know from 63 on had labored so hard in those CBS Vineyards and there was such a pride in those days and some today still about being part of CBS, which was considered the Cadillac of the commercial CBS News consider how the Cadillac of the commercial network operations and that that the chance to succeed Walter Cronkite. He just he couldn't turn it down Barbara medicine is with us and we have more listeners also a couple of lines open to to 76 thousand in the Minneapolis st. Paul area and in other parts of Minnesota toll-free at Zero, hi. You're on the air. Go ahead, please. May we have your question? Hello? Yeah. Hello. You're there. Hello Speedy. Can you hear me? I guess we'll just move on to our next listener. I think she is going to something else. Hi, you're on the air. Hello, this is very unusual. Ordinarily. People are right there ride. Your can we can we try another one not at the moment. All right, you talking? All right. We got another caller. Go ahead, please. Hello. Hello there. Alright, well, we'll let let them get that sorted out in there and let me ask you to respond a little bit to a comment you made earlier about the product the qualities that make up a network anchor all of the perquisites that go with and so what and there's so few people that are qualified for this. What are the networks really looking for and how important is solid news judgment and news experience. Well, the networks are looking for someone who is really viewed by the public at large and by the critics as a top-notch solid journalist. First of all, it's the tradition in this country, you know that the anchor be a solid journalist and secondly they want somebody to project a prestigious image somebody to kind of personify the network as a whole and so they're looking for somebody who has really kind of a spotless reputation for integrity and 44 honesty. In addition. Of course the anchor as we've discussed. He's given so many jobs to do here in this country. He has got to look in good look good and sound good on TV. This this thing about personal appeal may be unfortunate, but it's unavoidable you invite this person into your home. You have to feel comfortable with them. It's unfortunate when it comes down to you know, who's the youngest and handsomest but has to be something somebody with personal appeal and it also has to be somebody who just like in the early days of Television can handle it when things go wrong and who furthermore has had a lot of experience in who has a memory that's more than 24 hours old because don't forget the the anchors are cold on at moments of real National crisis, you know, the shooting of a president or or the shooting of a pope for example something for which they can have no preparation and they've got to sit on the air and be able to ad-lib intelligently and and it's that's a pretty big Bill to fill agents say they're really only a handful of people in the country that that really could qualify. More listeners waiting and we've got the phone system squared away. So we'll take our next caller. Hi, you're on the air. (00:16:00) Oh and Bill Maxine from Minneapolis. (00:16:05) All right, what's your question, please? (00:16:07) I'm older now and not in the workforce. But but when I was young I used to dream of working for a newspaper, but I could never resolve this problem between my own Viewpoint and pleasing the newspaper or the corporate. Powers that be that would that would that would hire me and I just felt they would be very severe control over me on what I said and I was wondering if Barbara I think that was what her name was whether correspondence still very much of a conflict between the corporate interests. They work for and their own personal Integrity or Viewpoint. (00:16:51) Well, I think that's an interesting question. I think by and large people who go into journalism understand that they're going to be working for large corporations with a tradition and a demand in fact of objectivity. There is such a thing, of course as the new journalism there, you know, where where People and be fine is more in print than in television incidentally where people want to express their own Viewpoint. And in some cases are actually encouraged to to do opinionated writing but by and large is like a self selective process and like you you realize it was gonna be a problem for you. You're obviously a person of strong personal views so you didn't do it and I think that that generally speaking and Studies have been made, you know of of reporters both in print and in radio and TV it tends to attract a moderately I don't want to say liberal moderately Progressive person someone who probably believes in the intervention of government, you know to maybe redistribute wealth and to achieve a more fairness in the society, but it doesn't attract too many raving radicals or whether of the or conservatives generally speaking newspaper reporters are not and and broadcast reporters are not to tremendously ideological at least. That's what I found. Another listener is waiting with a question. Go ahead please you're on the air. (00:18:16) Hello. I'm calling from Walker, Minnesota. And I have two questions. The first is about Network news being a headline service. I still have the impression that up to the time they go on the air. They have all the information and all the background that programs like all things considered have yet? They can't they don't want the Earth. I'd like to know what happened to all that information and the second question is about the women on the network news program like Jessica Savage Judy Woodruff 8. Are they satisfied with working for Network or? They seem to be going towards about public broadcasting. (00:18:55) That's interesting question. Well to answer your first there is a real conflict, you know, there's a lot more sort of ringing of the hands and network news in the public would see would really imagine about how are we going to get it all in there? There's always a conflict people the people that put Network newscast together are acutely aware that most people get their news from television. So they try really very hard to get it all in and this for example, this was the Hallmark of Walter Cronkite anything that moved on UPI that day he felt had to be mentioned on the CBS Evening News. John Chancellor said the same thing when I interviewed him several people most people only have one shot at finding out what happened that day. So he felt distinctly obligated to include a piece of information. He thought it was was useful. So what happened was that this tended to crowd out the background information now today, I think there's a different different perspective emerging and people are saying look television really, it can't give you everything you need to know. There's no way you're going to watch a TV newscast 20 minutes of news gets and be a really well-informed person so Let's try to put let's try to do a better job of things that television can do well and let's try to put more background in. Is it worthwhile? For example to mention that you talk Shamir succeeded Menachem begin his head of the herut party just isn't it's important item. Right but is it worthwhile mentioning unless you can put a bit of background in who is Shamir, you know, can we expect that? They will follow into the same pattern as begging. What does it mean for the Outlook in the Middle East was it mean for u.s. Israeli relations? So in other words there will be there will be a judgment call their do we include this as a 15 second reader that he was elected or do we do a full background Iran this person or do we drop it altogether and I think there is somewhat more of an attempted a to include background, but they don't have the luxury of the hour that that all things considered has you see, what do they do? They have a lot of material left over the simply doesn't oh, yes. Yes, and this is this is one thing I that that really distinguishes local news from Network news. Local news are mostly monkeys newscaster. Our and I tell you what, I mean having been a local producer myself. You are scrambling from morning to night to fill that our and so that's why sometimes you see the dumbest things on the air, you know, somebody comes back with a story and he says this was really a bummer what a turkey, you know, but you gotta fill a show but the network level they have, you know, sixty seventy eighty a hundred stories to choose from so the real job is and this is why the anchor is so key because he's such a big voice in that editorial role. The real job is is what's going to make it in terms of that 20 minutes and what's going to be dropped 12:30 is the time Barbara Madison who is with us today author of a new book called the evening Stars the making of the network news anchor we have more listeners with questions. Hi, you're next. (00:21:46) Yes. I'm from Minneapolis. And I used to enjoy watching leather Cronkite very much on the news, but ever since Dan Rather had taken over for him. It seems that he is tried to imitate. Mr. Cronkite's are of seriousness, but it seems to me that he does not come across in a very civilized manner. He seems very similar. Frightened and non relaxed when he gives his broadcast. Could you tell me how is ratings have done since he's taking over for mr. (00:22:12) Cronkite this may surprise you but they've done very well indeed not initially and you know any time there's a change in a network news. Anchor. I mean this has happened since the very start when Douglas Edwards stepped down in 1962 and Cronkite took over the ratings dipped when Swayze took a step down and Huntley and Brinkley took over the ratings drop disastrously and so it wasn't surprising really that when rather took over in 1981 that the ratings also dropped it because there is a real Habit Factor in network news and people don't like it when you mess with her anchor, you know, it's something they do every day usually in the same setting and so it's kind of like a ritual and people don't like changes so that but what's happened much to the surprise of a lot of the critics because there are a lot of people out there that feel like you they feel that in fact that CBS got a lot of letters it said Dan is trying too hard and So that you know, one of the main things that they try to do is try to actually get him relax a little bit more but a lot of people have gotten used to them and have gotten very fond of him and on average evening. The CBS Evening News is too full rating points ahead of the opposition. Now a rating points 850 thousand households, you know, like a million and a half people. So you you figure that out. That's a that's a that's a lot of people that like Dan Rather more listeners with questions from Barbara Mattis. Oh, hi you're on the air. (00:23:35) Hi. I'm calling from Alexandria Minnesota. And I guess I had two questions. I'll settle for just one. I think that accuracy is beginning to suffer. I'm television news suffer at the expense of being first or getting the story on the air right away. (00:23:52) No not at this point. I think that they're all too many mistakes made in by journalists period I'm finding this out since people writing my book incidentally if you found science takes other people interviewing me, for example, you know misquoting things like that. But but no to answer the gentleman's question as a matter of fact, the networks are still waging a battle of quality. It's very important for them for their newscasts to be thought well of to create prestigious image for the whole Corporation. And so look if it was only a question of ratings. I guarantee you the Evening News would look a whole lot different than it does. Now. They know how to put on a National Enquirer of the air with you know, sensationalized stories and say get you know, sexy actors and actresses they I know how they know how to get the ratings. I mean it was it was the Network's own stations had pioneered happy talks at the local level for example, but they've chosen to to keep it sort of a Battleground. You know, let's say to take the higher Road, even though even though it is true that the news today. There is somewhat of a different definition of news. They're attempting all the network newscast or tend to become a bit more Broad in their appeal. They're doing more subjects of Pop about popular culture Sports and things like that than they used to but it's still important for them that the Evening News be a dignified newscast. Why do you suppose that television news at the local level has tended to emphasize tended to emphasize. I say some of the superficial aspects as opposed to the more substantive aspects as the Network's do well there's a real simple reason and that is that the the local news is by far the biggest and most significant Revenue earner for the station and may account for as much as 30% of the station's revenues and so they have given up all pretense at making their news a Prestige earner if you want and they're really going absolutely nakedly after the ratings and after the revenues at high ratings bring and if they find out that the audience likes it when the weatherman and the sportscaster tells jokes or that the that the the anchors of you know, kind of twit each other on the air and that sort of thing and that fires and whatnot pack em in that's what they're going to give them at the network level. Although the Evening News does make a lot of money the overall Network news division. The the revenues really are just a drop in the bucket can see compared to what the Network's earn from daytime TV and from Primetime TV, and so there's a whole different approach to it. You see More listeners are waiting with questions. We'll take our next caller. Go ahead (00:26:49) please. Yes, I'm from Minneapolis and I have more of a comment. I have a lot of relatives left in Chile my mom's from there and she had a letter from her uncle say they were planning Uprising on September 11th conspiracy led to protests his reign of rule there. And so I was turned on ABC World News the to see if anything happened and there was nothing on there and I said all they didn't do it and then later on that night. I was on watching channel nine the independent Network news and they had a little they told that there was riots and protests on some parallel and and I was just like really amazed that it wasn't covered at all. (00:27:35) Well, you know, you really just don't know what the mix of news is that particular day. I you'd have to really go into it and see what was competing how big that Riot was as a matter of fact ABC funnily enough does a pretty usually does a pretty good job on foreign news with Peter Jennings, as you know, he'd been based in London and there's There was there's always this idea that each anchor had to have their fair share. And so Jennings was almost guarantee that about a third of the show would be devoted to foreign news. You see so that I really couldn't say but one thing I would like to tell this caller and that is contrary to what most people think there was. No, I'm sure that it was not based on it was based on somebody's judgment on how important that was or whether or not they had film, you know, and whatever else was going on that day. It was nothing political very almost so seldom at the network level. Do you see ideologies entering into a decision? I think once in a while they may decide that do you know, we don't look too hard in the president. They may pull in their horns, you know, something like that if they've been battering him day after day, they're aware that people have their resent that you know, so that occasionally they may maybe go softer on a particular item or something like that, but very seldom does ideologies or politics enter into Citing what goes on the news another listener has a question for Barbara matters. Oh, hi, you're on the (00:29:02) air. Yeah. Hi. I'm calling from Minnetonka. I've got a comment and a question and then I'll hang up and listen first off the comment. I wonder if Barbara could comment a bit on it too. I majored in journalism in college and I just get the feeling from listening to I listened at another station that Barbara was on and just in reading a lot of things I did. I really get the feeling today that there's a real negative attitude towards journalism in general and I'd like you to comment on that the other thing the other comment I had was basically there was a question on whether the network newscast should go to an hour or not. And I really feel for myself. I know the information that that I want to get during a day and reading the newspaper and other news magazines really gives me a lot more background and I can choose the time that I want to read those the the network Nightly News when I I have the time I watch it and I want it to be very short and get in a lot of information and basically as you indicated most of the stories that went on that day in the world. I wanted to comment on that. (00:30:09) Yeah. Well, I think that that it would that everybody was like you because in order to be really informed. I think you absolutely have to be one or two good newspapers and news magazine to get the depth we mentioned earlier that radio was a better conductor of information and television and better yet is print because as you say you can do it in your own time, you can go back you didn't quite get that. You can go back and read it again, you know, if you're a slow learner unions read slowly if you're fast were, you know learner you can skim the newspaper. So there's just no question about that. The print is a better medium of information. But what what television can do the print can't do is can give you the experience of for example, when evaluating a candidate you wouldn't want to just only read about that candidate the newspaper. You really want to get a chance to see him for yourself what you do on television. If there is a devastating event, you know a flood or a fire, you know, the newspaper can never or let's say a big demonstration say really huge demonstration or or right that's a kind of thing where you have to see it really, you know, it's an experiential thing rather than a maybe informational thing. So it really television and newspapers ought to be viewed as complementary media I think and not as as as competing media and it would be nice if everybody, you know got a chance to do both getting back to your first question about negative feelings. Yeah. I was doing a lot of taking a lot of coal and radio shows up from my home before going on tour with a book and you really do sense a lot of negative feelings out there. And I think there's a perception among a lot of people in the public that the media has gotten too big for its britches, but they're not answerable in anybody. That of course a lot of a lot of people feel that their that the meat is very biased and so I think that's what you're seeing when in terms of all these lawsuits that are going on right now these tremendous verdicts against newspapers and televisions and so forth. I heard a really interesting statistic recently that 80 injury cases where there's it with his like a libel case against a broadcast Outlet or a newspaper 80% of the time the juries find and behalf of the defendant and against the broadcaster newspaper Outlet even more interesting perhaps at the fact that 70% of those verdicts are overturned at a higher Court talked about the salaries of the top Network anchors earn. Well in excess of a million dollars a year, you know to three million, whatever it might be are these salary so inflated as to eventually isolate these people from their constituency, which is the great mass of people that they broadcast to every day. Well, it's certainly a Troublesome question, isn't it? I mean, I cannot say that Tom Brokaw has And his father was a construction Foreman in South Dakota or the Dan Rather is forgotten that his mother was a waitress in his father was a pipeline fitter. I don't know if they remember that enough. I do know that that broke off for example consciously does try to give his daughters different experiences so that they won't to they'll know what there's more to growing up and just being ritual girls on Park Avenue, you know, they'll they go backpacking the summer and you know always go visit his folks and things like that, but I think it would take a conscious effort. If you were earning like Dan Rather two and a half million dollars a year would take a conscious effort to keep the perspective of the average man in your mind. We have our listeners waiting with questions for Barbara matter. So author the evening Stars, I you're (00:33:40) next. All right. Thank you (00:33:46) on Dennis. Holy show you mean on the last word? Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. (00:33:50) Thank you. On the run and have to receive their news and I Devour the news and I enjoy it. We listen to electronic media and I get much of it from the station and it's NPR. Also. I'm kind of switching over from CBS 2 to the ABC and that and kind of received a lot of my my television news from CBS over the years. But with the with Ted koppel's late night show and with their Sunday morning one hour break late. I think they're really doing some exciting things. And of course then we have macneil-lehrer which is going an hour and it's really exciting for myself (00:34:39) lots lots lots out there for a News Junkie (00:34:41) right? We'll be taking a demotion if he went to Anchor. (00:34:47) Well, that's a real good question one that Kabul must have been asked himself every single day for a long time for a long time because in a sense he was the natural heir to the Frank Reynolds job. Really the preeminent personality today, I guess in most respected personality maybe after Reynolds or maybe on a par with Reynolds before he died. But what happened there was that night line is built to such an extraordinary degree around Koppel and his skills as an interviewer and that show has recently as you know expanded to an hour and also the ratings were dipping so they would just was just too dangerous to fiddle around with Nightline and put another host in there. And on top of that Kabul himself is not anxious to Anchor. He has such a range of mean his program is so unique there like macneil-lehrer. In fact, he I myself would think it would be much more interesting to do a Nightline the hours stink, but it'd be much more interesting to do a Nightline than to be an anchor. The Paradox of anchoring is it's a really boring job on a day-to-day basis. They the tradition demands you take your top reporters who usually are kind of like in fact Studies have shown Right individuals were very attracted to action in their daily lives who need action and excitement their daily lives. So you take these top reporters and then you put them in the same room day after day with the same group of producers and you know a big news day doesn't I know because I'm I was a local producer myself. You don't have that many big news days. It's not Watergate every year, you know, and the only thing that kind of revives them is when there is a big breaking news event. And so Koppel actually was not anxious. It wasn't that he considered it a demotion and not at all but it was just that he really enjoys what he's doing more and realize that there's a bit more room for him and it really is his show whereas the the Evening News you really are more at the mercy of events. You've got it. You've got to cover what's going on you touch but do not go into great detail about macneil-lehrer in the book. Are they also evening Stars? Where do they fit in this hole? (00:36:56) Picture (00:36:57) yeah, I think that macneil-lehrer their evening stars in a way that they have a really large and loyal following but what they do is something very different, you know, they they they again like like all things considered I have to say I'm a big All Things Considered fan. I love Susan stamberg she but getting back to me Lair. They are not under the same obligation of covering everything that happened that day. They go on the are assuming first of all that that they're talking to a better educated audience. They know that they're talking to a better educated audience an audience who probably is reading newspapers and news magazines and has many other sources of information and not only that Mueller does not have the resources to cover the news if they wanted to their budget I believe is 20 million dollars a year, but since they've expanded Networks are you know have worldwide operations spending upwards of 200 million dollars a year so macneil-lehrer. I guess they're not really they don't really come under my heading of the evening Stars. I mean II just for the purposes of this book. I defined it very narrowly those people those those men and that one woman who have occupied the Network's Evening News anchor seat and interestingly enough, you know, since the beginning of Television really only been about 15 of them. The the turnover accepted ABC has not been very great 13 minutes before one o'clock. We'll take another listener with the question. Hi, you're on the air. (00:38:24) Hello. I'm calling from South Minneapolis. And most of the topics currently discussed have been about National and Regional news programming for the last 15 years. I would say most of my new sources of come from listening to shortwave radio. I am curious about two things two questions here. What do you think the current value of overseas international radio broadcasting? Is it up to par with the Needs that need to be fulfilled for that type of (00:39:00) news. I have to ask you that question. I don't listen to overseas broadcast. What do you think? (00:39:07) Well, I feel that there's been a need for quite a long time there in the old days. It seemed everybody used to want to short wave receiver. I know you brought up Fred mirrell on the BBC in London and he course BBC pioneered some of the finest news commentaries that I've heard friend of mine is currently at the U of M studying political science and he wants to get into the VOA or Radio free Europe. So I'm curious about the career of side your National programming to (00:39:41) well. I think it's the that in this country that the opportunities are certainly better either in public radio or TV or in the commercial networks. It is interesting since you bring up the subject. It's not answering your question. It was fascinating to me in researching the book to find how different this setup is in other countries, you know, howdy emphasize their anchors are compared to ours. Hmm financing systems are all together. Do absolutely absolutely more listeners are waiting will take her next caller. Hi, you're (00:40:12) next. I'm pulling from Minneapolis. I have a shortwave radio and user actually Two Worlds the United States and some other place because the news difference between English broadcast from Europe and the Far East and what we get on our own news seems so different. (00:40:32) Yeah, it's amazing. We're very we're very egocentric in this country. This is this is a big country. It's one of the most important countries in the world. We tend to be very fascinated with ourselves. And the rest of the world is fascinated with us. And so it's amazing. You know, when you meet foreigners how well informed they are about our political situation. We won't know anything about theirs. Another listener has a question for Barbara matter. So go ahead please turn down, please. Hi there. Are you are you ready? All right. We'll just wait for a second. No. Okay. Go ahead, please with your question. Are you all set? Yes, sir. (00:41:07) Okay. I'm calling from Minneapolis and I have two things that are somewhat related more and more newscast or news items. Well, let me let me start over. I can understand why some people are so hung up on on the ratings The Way some people follow them. They've become more important than the news itself. (00:41:28) Yeah. Let me let me just stop there because I think you raise a really good point the ratings race the ratings of course are very important to the Network's because that determines how much they can charge the advertisers for Aspergers, but what's amazing is how much is written about in the newspaper about it? And and you know as Cronkite said to me when I interviewed him, he said it, can you imagine if a newspaper if it was published if we went on television? Daily and talk about the circulation figures of the Minneapolis papers, you know, there's the newspapers have have sort of joined in this almost chorus of watching the ratings go up and down and it really actually puts additional pressure, you know on on television Executives. So the newspapers have helped fan this rating Race 10 minutes before one will take another listener. Go ahead, please (00:42:19) you're Barb stand as far as Embassy I understand was interested in going to an hour program. They were talking about it as far as this year and also as far as their comments as far as CBS cutting the their finances toward their news and the effect it's going to have as far as the quality in there are able to capability to cover the different parameters of the world. (00:42:43) What was your question at NBC sir? I'm (00:42:45) sorry. Well NBC from what I understood I heard a rumor that they were supposed to be going to an (00:42:49) hour. Oh, right. Yeah. I don't think it's kind of I don't think it's likely that the our Cast is not very likely at the moment. The networks are all their relationships with their Affiliates right now are very fragile. The Affiliates can turn, you know, they all have great big satellites out in their backyards and they can get programming from all over there. Not as heavily dependent on the Network's for programming. And so the the the structure of the traditional structure is a little bit delicate. I mean, you know about threatened right now and so in the old days the Network's could say to your Affiliates take that you affiliate, you know, they didn't have to be very tactful or worry very much about what the Affiliates thought so and so they are not prepared to Ram an hour newscast down the Affiliates throat other words what they want with the Network's one is for the Affiliates to give up a half hour of their time what's considered affiliate time to make an hour newscast on the other hand. The Network's themselves are not willing to go into their own time prime time from 8 to 11 to put on an hour is nothing stopping them from putting on an hour from say 10 to 11 which in my view would be ideal. Nothing stopping him at all. Except the fear of loss of Revenue. I wonder what holds for the future of the evening stars and the three major television networks with the new technology of Cable Direct satellite broadcasting and so on Well, everybody's crystal ball is a little bit murky at the moment and nobody exactly knows what's going to happen to the structure. But I think for the next five or ten years with for the foreseeable future, I think the networks will remain the dominant organizations keeping at least 70% of the audience. Now, this is a big loss in the days when there was 93 94 percent of the audience was tuned to the network down to 70 is a big loss but it's still a very large mass on a very critical mass of the American public and as long as they do this, I think that the the anchors of the Evening News will continue to be very important individuals. The other side of that question of course is will the remaining 30% provide a broad enough economic and viewer base and listener base to support all these other technologies that are coming along Well, you certainly ask the key question that this is why there's a lot of a lot of - Skyy talked about us to work. You know how many channels were going to have eventually I mean 48 else exactly. There is just there's not enough advertising money to go around to support that that's why you probably won't have more than say the three major networks and maybe one more significant news organization like Ted Turner's Cable News Network there really isn't the advertising money to go around to support these giant worldwide news organizations. It's kind of hard to watch more than one at a time. Yes. Anyway, yeah, we're listeners are waiting as we come down near the end of the are go ahead please you're next. (00:45:25) I'm calling from Moorhead Minnesota, and I'm wondering when they tell about foreign currencies may say well the young went down or the in went up where the market donor up would it be loud trumpet to say what the value was instead of just that it went up and (00:45:39) down, you know, that's a perfect example of of the kind of piece of information which to me is kind of meaningless unless you set it in some kind of context and it's just an old habit. You know what the dollar did reverses to the Yen and I must be honest with you. I don't know what it means either. Yeah, I think if they're going to it's the kind of thing if they're going to talk about it. They really go to explain it. Otherwise, it would just maybe just drop the whole thing. We'll take another listener with a question. Hi, you're (00:46:04) next. Thank you Barbara for very interesting program. Thank you. I disagree with you on one point. I think the television half-hour has to leave out so much with advertising for and commercials certainly foreign news is going to be neglected and we just completed a study of this very subject. So the young lady who asked you about Chile, I can't agree with that for two years the country's been disintegrating and most of us who are interested in and have to rely on all news channels the BBC and Toronto. (00:46:41) Yeah. Well, let me say that that I think that the events in Chile are underreported. I want to agree with you a hundred percent all I was saying that it wasn't under reported for any kind of ideological reasons. And I just want to say one more thing. All right, totally off a subject that since we're in a broadcasting the Minnesota area that the research we worked in. My book is a Minneapolis girl named Carol lamb really family still lives here. Yeah. She's and she works for all things considered by the way. Now she's at the time she wasn't but is now well very interesting. I have a HomeTown question 2 if I may respond with one, I wonder if the Twin Cities of Minneapolis st. Paul area Market has sent more than its share of people to the National networks. I think of her have Jerry Bowen Susan Spencer Bob McNamara, and I'm sure about half a dozen Eric sevareid. Susan Peterson is one of the few women news directors in a Major Market a good friend of mine. Betty Endicott is a news director of one of the big Independent News operations in Washington. So if we have sent more, how come well it really it's that the the big things WCCO WCCO has had a tradition of excellence in news way back when when most most stations gave news the back of their hand, you know, and didn't even have a film Well WCCO has been considered particularly by CBS as an excellent training ground for journalists and they kept their eye on the station knowing that that it attracted a lot of good young people and also a lot of good young people were interested get to see Co because they knew that was a possible route to the network and it's it's got that reputation still think we have time for one or two more. Hi, you're (00:48:15) next. Yes. Thank you. I do not listen, or I do not watch TV Evening News at all. I haven't for probably 10 years or more. I get all my news from All Things Considered and other public radio programs, and I read one newspaper a day. I feel well informed what am I missing by not watching the evening Stars? (00:48:38) Hmm good question. Well, I don't guess you're probably missing a whole lot. Although I think the more different versions you can get of an event. I think that's why it's great to read more than one newspaper. For example, particularly. If you notice on Foreign Affairs how the play on a story will be so different and so the more different viewpoints and by the way, all the everybody it's a kind of a truism that the Evening News casts all look alike and people will flick the dial and they'll see all of them, you know covering the same story. But if you get a chance really to monitor his programs what they pick out to report very often or how they play the story is a lot more different On Any Given night than people realize so I don't I think that you can be you can be well informed without watching the evening news, but I think it would probably add an extra Dimension One More caller when the question for Barbara matter, so go (00:49:28) ahead. Hi. I'm calling from Minneapolis again. And the the one thing that bothers me is that there's more and more non news items getting included in broadcast. And one thing is the ratings themselves that we discussed earlier. It's nice to have diversions from the heavy stuff. But then why are you tuning in to a newscast if you're tuning in for the latest changes in (00:49:50) hairdos or are you talking about Network news now or lower than just about everything local National? Well, let me confinement what I say to network news because that really was what I was writing about. What I was studying there definitely is today a broader definition of what constitutes news if you take as I did go back into the newscasts a of 1970s, even the early 70s, they were very very heavily washington-based hearings, you know comings and goings in the White House lawn and so forth the doings of the mighty today. There is a perception that the average person can doesn't relate that much and a lot of the news by the way that looked like news some of it was to use Daniel bursting sprays really pseudo events events purely staged for the cameras. Is an attempt today to get into say more subjects that are more broadly based more subjects dealing with popular culture. Now I myself maybe this comes from my perspective of having been a local news producer, but I don't see anything wrong with that. I think that I think that what's happening in the culture is news and that it's not all just politics. Well Barbara matters. Oh, thank you very much for coming in and visiting with us. Today. We run out of time Barbara is the author of a new book called the evening Stars the making of the network news anchor and I suspect that it is available at your favorite bookstore. Thank you. It's all for Midday for today. I want to thank engineer Roger Jamal and also Peggy Squire for handling the telephones today's broadcast of midday was made possible by Slumberland and the Lay-Z-Boy showcase Shops coming up to 1 o'clock. This is Bob Potter.