Practically nobody in this entire state who's not affected in some way or another by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources outdoor recreational activities at most types are affected in some way by the DNR fishing hunting folding camping in state parks snowmobiling watching Wildlife today's guest is in charge of all that Joe Alexander commissioner of the department. He is a 25-year veteran of the agency having started as a game warden in the 50s and work his way up to the commissioner's office by 1978. He has survived as commissioner under governors of both political parties, which I think is some sort of a tribute to you Joe pleasure to have you here today. Thank you open the phone lines for your calls and just a few more months. But before we get to that I am constrained to ask you about 9 a.m. In the news today the wolf management plan, which has just been announced the plan that would allow the trapping of some wolves in Minnesota and we'll turn them.One of the wolf over to your agency from the US fish and wildlife service what some of the background of this and why is Minnesota getting back into the wolf business while I think if I could have just a moment to get into the background just a little bit when the wolf went out of state control and there was very little control that was a bounty to animal that one time without protection other than some very minor protection statutes in a way of taking but this art happened in the early seventies in the world became an endangered species under the control of the federal government and all kinds of stories started some of them through some of them not about the rapid increase in population some of the movie we are we investigated lot of and we didn't because it was under the federal Authority but the stories became rampant that the world was weird estimating deer population has a cattle populations of various things like that and the program under the federal government in northeastern Minnesota with its history of not particularly caring for federal control of any kind. I think this concern wasPlay buy that feeling but we also let those people felt that this was a state animal that it was not migratory that it was one of those animals that is native to the state of Minnesota and that it should be the responsibility of the state to control that animal in my own feelings. I felt the same way about the control of waters and various other things Timbers and things like that unless they're an international nature or unless they are migratory a night. Then I don't have any problem with stealing of the federal authorities. The history of the federal control has not been good hands in Minnesota after the people had trouble with depredation of livestock and other things that difficulty of obtaining controllers the inability of the federal authorities to prosecute with violations in this sort of thing. Let us to believe that the state would be in a better position and reputation and other complaints could be better handled through a limited trapping program and also continuing a predator control program just as a matter of record when the wolf was not protected and it was a bounty animal and we had just very minimum controls on it.Made probably a dozen arrests a year on people who were driving illegally snaring illegally digging pups out of dens and doing things like that since the federal control came in and they became endangered species. What's up? What's the really strict control that they should have had it has not been an arrest made since the state released the wolf and it became an endangered species. There's an estimate some 200 to 400. It'll kill the illegally and we believe that if it if you are patrolling that and if you are enforcing an Endangered Species Act, at least one of us could have been laid in that period of time to protect you off. So we believe it would be far better to have an estate and I think our history of protecting a wolf in our concern for it is as good or better than the federal government.the reports that we have seen Indicate that environmentalists are concerned that the wolf runs the risk of becoming extinct under State Management particularly extinct if if a trapping season is a lot. What can you say to people who are concerned about that? I want to see the wolf maintained in Minnesota. First of all, if we were going to exterminate the wolf entirely in the state of Minnesota, you have to do something other than trap. It would have to be on some kind of a massive poisoning program. You can't do you can't eliminate the wolf by trapping word list the type of controls it were talking about so it's going another phrase. That's probably crying wolf of her situation that I don't care much to get into it because first of all as I mentioned we didn't never believe they were threatened or endangered the population of wolves and counted as rather extensive more than we have the numbers. Are we having a state or subject some speculation the number that is known around probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200. I'm not sure and I agree with that you can find people in northern Minnesota who are knowledgeable of say that that's probably closer to twenty-five hundred and you have the Environmental Group some of them. Environments they probably were high on that did it might be 800? So anyone who has any knowledge of wolves can take their pick of numbers that we have but assuming we have 1200 we're talking about some controls and we're talkin about harvesting to out a very strictly controlled trapping program in these would be Wars that were we're doing damage that we could not control or under a regular predator predator control program and we would allow skill Fabrics to be able to take that money. We think that control would be consistent with a 1200 population at that was being harvestable surplus of that number of wolves and that we did not decimate the population has been rather stable population with all of the things that's going on has remained by the stable. They haven't they haven't varied that much. They vary more with food supply than killing. It's about 7 minutes past twelve. Joe Alexander is with us the commissioner of the department natural resources, and if you have questions about his agency's activities, which go far beyond wolf control. That's only a very small part of it by all means give us a call in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area. The number is 227-6002 276 thousand in the Twin Cities area. In other parts of Minnesota one 806-529-7001 800-652-9700. And if you listening in one of the surrounding states and are curious about Minnesota resources call us directly in the Twin Cities that area code 612-227-6000. Worcester there was a lot of excitement in Minnesota over oil earlier this spring possibility of oil well sprouting up over some sections of the state was in the news for quite a while. Are there any other exciting mineral deposits being talked about now? I believe you're referring to some of the rumors that are really rather more than rumors at the present time to try has been a showing of gold and they and I hope that I don't get too loud of guffaws from the audience in the Brooklyn area and it was a long shaft 8900 some up some of them up to that up. There has been a good showing of gold and goodbye. Meaning that it would be marketable with the right kind of equipment. We don't know what what level literature occurred. We know that the samples Came From the Bottom of these pits people then been inquiring about it. We're honest with him yesterday has been showing their it's it's not going to touch you with anything like the Yukon rush or anything like that, but We have known for a long time that there are gold deposits in the state and some of them years ago remarkable to some degree and maybe it's cool to price of is maybe they're becoming more marketable but there's nothing there that indicates of an answer but there is some interest and the showings are strong that they had been strong meaning that the wood could be marketable if it's a if they could get at it in the proper ways. We're watching it very closely. And of course we could a little about what we want to know if the people who brought this and whether or not they did recently been divorced in through the wedding rings in the bed or their wrist watches or something like that, but then we went through a little. Of course with the with the Routan oil Discovery, but we're watching very closely on their some indication that they're their there. Maybe some marking for gold in the state. They went looking for oil and I got down to the bottom of the well, but instead of finding oil they found gold whenever you switch how much do you have any idea how much is down there where you have no idea but we don't know the level it occurred then we haven't gotten into that yet. I imagine we will but most of this is on private property where where the mineral rights are privy. If it gets in the public land and I we are the holders of mineral rights, of course that we will become considerably more interested in it. We're interested in it, even on private land. We want to know what we have but we will be in it somewhere rather have no Day Avenged usually just would not confine themselves to private landowner stretch out someone. Alright, sir. Yes, sir. Yes. I have a few questions for the commissioner. First of all of the commissioner you portray the US Federal efforts to protect the right. I guess I'm wondering, you know how you think you're going to be able to do it any better since the DNR has refused to participate in any federal any enforcement of The Endangered Species Act. The state has made no arrests. The state has done no of Education in the states and second of all, I guess I'm wondering why are you white white wrapping walls that aren't depredating on my stock in the number. I was doing a very low how that is going to help reduce livestock loss. Well, first of all, I think there was Miss statement that you made there that we have not participate in any way our people have gathered evidence. We've turned it over to the federal authorities. They have declined to act on it. We have a we have a long list of of a documented killings in the NFL. Should we have turned over them. It was our primary responsibility any control that we have of the wolf to the federal authorities to a deputy badge. I happen to hold one of those and all of my most all of my officers have been told deputy badges, but we don't we don't use those deputy badges on endangered species except as an assistance to the federal government. We don't go out then and foremost to the arrest we do it through them. The information has been turned on over to them. We have a very extensive program and we have had a very active program in cooperation with the federal government on the bald eagle and we have we have cooperated in a number of cases on that the federal authorities, of course to receive the credit. But so a lot of the legwork in a lot of the reporting is done by us. It was done in exactly the same way on the wolf, but they didn't choose to prosecute. So I think the allegations we did not participate are somewhat Leading we did participate we believe that the FED that the state control would be better accepted by the people of northern. Minnesota would be by the federal. There's a I don't know what has caused it but there's a are there is at least a haha Foundation up there a federal distrust and in some cases to distrust. I want to just come off that but it seems if you had to choose up sides, they would choose they would offer State control on anything over to both Federal and no control of another option. But if they have the choice, is it true that take State Control we believe it we in a better shape to handle that are chip program has proved effective the people up there have cooperated on that to a great degree and we believe that we can control and I believe our history of protecting or at least protecting the interests of the wolf that we could protect when they're at a bounty status and the case that we are willing and able to use it or to work on it animal at least to some degree more than we didn't want us a bounty in the federal government hasn't even done that. I move on to another stupid question for a commissioner Alexander. Go ahead and you're on the air. Hi there. Go ahead, please. Yes. Yes, can you hear us? I can hear you. Well, we can hear you. So go right ahead. I have two questions. What I've seen about the world information at Steve Fritz and other Wildlife biologists have come up with almost all the depredation. The livestock comes about in the summertime. And yes, he is. His proposed season would be in the winter time. And how do you logically follow that the the animals that are doing the the deprivation of Lights darker going to be the ones are getting caught. Well, I don't think that we could ever guarantee that they even if you if you were working in the summer or the winter or anything and there is some depredation of livestock. Can you catch an animal unless you kept the catch the animal ahold of the throat of a calf? I don't think we could guarantee anyone that we have the right animal we might assume that we do what we're talkin about on on on the trapping in the winter time is areas of heavy depredation where it hasn't been solved by a summer program that we would be allowed to take a few of these walls out and incidentally the taking the number of taking the number of wolves that were proposing to take my fully supported by. Dr. Micha's studies at this number of animals wouldn't I taken would probably enhance the wolf population. It would not hurt it that would keep it into the healthy state. So we're not working just on some positions are shooting in the dark. We're working on a scientific facts that came from the federal side of this not necessarily Arce. I know you're listening has a question for commissioner Alexander. Go ahead please and inhumane methods. I am not I am not sure that anyone has ever demonstrated to me. If you're going to trap an animal of any trap. That is any more Humane than the Lego trap to so-called Killers have to kind of bear traps and things like that are not necessarily killer trap say sometimes miss the animals of any animal that strap we will we will get into this with everything that we trapped dear whatever it happens to be and if it legal to trap is used properly. Now, you can either be if you could read it for or against traffic but illegal traffic and some other type of trap. I'm not sure that is any trap that anyone that takes a life of an animal to trapping is any more Humane than any other kind of trap. I have not convinced than any other traffic would be any more humane. Quarter past the hour and other listeners on the line. Go ahead, please. Is the commissioner I want to refer to the last, set it in the 1860s. He said that is surprising that a civilization at that time could still go with a leg-hold trap and I happen to have a greater confidence in Darwin and having anyone in the DNR. Let's a look at some of the couple things to yourself and get us and trophy animal today's star and tribune. That's a surprising a comment and use commas by Sports trapping. You don't move for sport harvesting is another euphemism used but I want specific to ask. When is the DNR going to stop calling its while I section a while I section when it's primarily a section for Trappers and Hunters. Well, I think I can answer that last one last year that people in the state of Minnesota gave us over $650,000 a record Nationwide for non-game species protection and enhancement. We have a section and Wildlife it deals with that. We had a section and Wildlife it dealt with it long before we started the the check off that allowed us to do this. I have never found one of our game managers. I've never found one of our conservation offices wasn't sincerely interested in the protection and enhancement of the species the fact that they are trapped in hunted and some case in some cases. It does not detract from the population of that in some cases help tonight. I don't think I'll get much agreement on that happened from the from the statements tomato to discuss it in Ark which is all right. I don't expect people. I think the they questioning and the destructive DNR sometimes he'll see we find this out in public meetings and we've been able to change a lot of our regulations based on those those criticism, but to to label it as a taking on a trapping and I and a heartless operation. Is there sometimes that you have to do things to control thing. They're going on at that that sometimes you have to do things to a predatory population what it means human beings are well, that means animals. I was up at Sandstone the other day where they were several hundred people up there who are enjoying something less than freedom because of some control that had to be put on them wolves and Wildlife sometimes get themselves into difficulties. Most recently. We had a muskrat that a young woman here and metropolitan area and a hue-and-cry was immediate. I got a number of calls in the office to somehow destroy the Muskrat population because of this attack and we don't intend doing that we want we want to approach it sensibly but if that had happened in northern Minnesota, we would all sit at a gonna cry from the protectionist. It would have said the Wolves were only exercising what is their inherent right to do and so let's not bother them. So there are two sides to this. It depends on where you're living and whose Ox is getting bored. Another listener is waiting with a with a question for the commissioner. Go ahead. Please restart it from dog packs running the livestock down nickel right on the edge of the Boundary Waters north of the Iron Range. What is it to store long-term Atomic waste? I I think I hear about two questions Anna and I have no opposition in there about a smelter in Minnesota if we happen to get into some Market about copper nickel and we know what that we haven't we know that we're doing some exploring now to see just what we do have the controls are there are the Reclamation controls are already there legislature seen fit to pass some good Reclamation laws expiration doesn't mean mining mining does not mean smelters. We have no plans for any Sudbury type smelters in the state of Minnesota and I believe our Environmental Protection laws in the state would almost prohibited and if not if we were to ever talk about and I'm sure that anything near the Sudbury type thing would would be prohibited. We have no plans for that. If the smelters did come in there would probably copied the Japanese smelter that is environmentally sound to scrubbers on those who have proved that they are that they can be done environmentally safe formation of rock that you're talkin about up in the Boundary Water. Handy lift at least a proposal at these might be good places to store Atomic waste of something that we as a state of worried about for an awfully long time and part of my argument with a with the federal government on controller The Boundary Waters goes right back to this when I thought they're all just too old to us jurisdiction in that area would serve to protect the area more than to have the federal government in complete control and now we're finding out that if to the federal government decides that an atomic storage is feasible in The Boundary Water canoe area. They have the power to take it and do it without any without any Court battles from us at the minute. They file with animation papers. They may proceed. That's what scared me all along. It still frightens me and I I hope there's something we can do about it with fight it all the way. There's no question about that. That's that area up. There does not does not deserve an atomic waste dump. Couldn't you take take me back to court, the state take that scarf you can in certain cases, but the federal government enjoys a real to Unique distinction at the state does not the federal government. Negotiate with you on lamps at a state level to the point until to the point where they get tired and negotiating then when I get tired, they just take it. We just happen to have that happen to us up at Sandstone prison. That's the reason I was up there the other day and judge Lord arranged where they arranged for us to go up there and we were able to work that out but we had to try to work out that lamb taking in that was wild and Scenic River portion of an estate Park. We tried to work out a portion of that for them to take 3 and 1/2 acres and use it for this security prison that they had and they decided they wanted 37 Acres file condemnation papers and immediately started bulldozing trees and judge Ward stepped in and we were able to negotiate a settlement on that. But if they decide if the federal government decides to take something as fade by condemnation, they could do it very quickly within a matter of days. We follow up on copper nickel II haven't most of the companies involved in that decided that the world price of copper is so low that it is not economically feasible to do much with it in Minnesota at this point. It's not good to price of copper is not good right now at fluctuates. There was a time there when saving pennies would have been we've been profitable. But now that that time is past Silver's gone down some of the things like that to some degree though. It's not as good as it was. It may be getting a fluctuating may come back, but that that's what these companies are exploring looking for us some future use is waiting and also a couple of lines open in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area. If you have a question for a commissioner Joe Alexander from the Department of Natural Resources to 276 thousand Minneapolis-Saint Paul in other parts of the state one 800-652-9700, please Yes, ma'am when I was a child. Dismantling of a dog packs killing livestock to the fact of her Sting the wolf does it slipped in throat? And then you open to do and eat hearty winter? There was one killed here that weighs 53 lb and they were holding about here. They certainly need to be controlled again because it because I like. No, thank you very much like one of the things that we recognize and my experience as a conservation officer. I think it helps and good step since I became commissioner. It hasn't yet many reports of wildlife damage that sometimes are done by animals other than wild animals. And any good Trapper will tell you that you if you're going to take a wild animal in a trap and you have a trap line that you have to take into account the feral animals that are out there the dogs that are running loose in the the cats that have been somehow turned loose In The Summertime by people who like them for a patent on the summer and left them at Lake Shores. These are things that we have to contend with out there that are as that are part of the problem. But that's how are people get into this is trying to differentiate between domesticated or semi domesticated animals in the wild animals that are doing the damage and it is never Pleasant task to to kill wild animals that are doing damage. I think that's been a misconception. I have one of the hardest things that I had to do when I was in the field was to to kill a bear that was somehow molesting Resort and for a couple of years that there was a nice picture on there, but then they became a nuisance and Anna game warden had to be called to kill the bear and that in some cases that's about all you can do is very who have learned to live from Resorts and places like that. So it's not a pleasant task to eliminate animals are doing Damaged and I hope I can I can correct that misconception. Let's move on to another listener with a question. Go ahead please you're on the air ensure that this is no illegal to having it doesn't get out of hand game and fish mommies dedicated - 20% from General Revenue with a few of the people in the field or not planning on adding any additional officers to that to that Forest we have enough to to take care of any of the complaints that we have and Wildlife to to talk about depredation from Plainville already have a deputation program in place and we will use those agents as much as we can will put a new age and where they are qualified and there will be some cost to it but it will come out of existing Game and Fish money is ever or whatever we can we can generate through Game and Fish type bunnies. Alright, thank you for calling we have another listing waiting going to have the Commissioners listening said that the wheels were taking livestock. I wondered what the DNR in the commissioner are doing to guarantee that those who are up in the wolf territory are providing alternative methods such as Shepherds a corralling non-lethal techniques such as taste aversion or fences are guard dogs that they're using those techniques first before we go to trapping. What are we talking about wolves or other animals are so-called Predators Dory animals Rollin some of the things that the farmers have to do are some of the things that you mentioned they don't have to do all of them and I don't think that we we could require that when when we can animals in the metropolitan area that are Damage to private property. We we never we never insisted. We will not do anything until people put up proper fences to keep them out and that sort of thing we go ahead and try to take care of the problem. We suggested people that there are some things that they could do such a disposing of crippled stock and deadstock so that they don't attract attract predatory animals of those it might eat carrion and bear will do this and wolves to some degree of wolves that rather rather make it kill but we go through all of that wasn't went on an educational program. But I think if you were talking about someone and not the most famous case, of course in the state of Jordan roznowski, I know him very well up in your country as lost as many cattle as he has needs done just about everything. The next question is do I keep on with this program. Where do I get out the gun and the indications? I'm not saying Julian to this but I'd indications are what's the what's a reduction and calls in the number of wolves are being found slain in the woods that people have quit asking for any help whatsoever and they're just doing it and the estimate of 400 is what some of those being killed every year is probably one of them all. 28 minutes past 12 another person is waiting with a question. Go ahead. It kind of harvested the forest lands and also about the hardest. Put it into the country after taking so much out of it. If it's going to hurt us. There's no harvesting of Timber allowed anywhere within the boundaries of the bwca. That was one of the parts of the settlement that the that the federal government did agree to it. Are there now giving us in a grant-in-aid program of three and a half men around three million dollars a year for 11 years to replace the Timber on a intensified program outside to bwca. There's no Timber being harvested in the bwca at the present time and there are under the present water cannot be any timber harvested up there. So I think you may have maybe gotten some misinformation on that from somewhere but we'd leave the timber operations are going on around there. But there is also a rounded where there are the weather is some protection from that but nothing inside on the pet deposit we have about 7 million acres in the state that it can be classed as peat lands and there's some three million controlled by the State may have some economic value for gas vacation direct burn or used in some other way. We have we have completed a Pete inventory program. We've we've gotten good study together. We presented it to the governor and two executive Council and we're proceeding based on a good Reclamation procedures Lowell acreage is as far as some of the company is considering what we don't but our acreage is right now for any kind of a p deletion limited to three thousand acres for anyone one operator and they have to demonstrate some some good device isn't good procedures to be able to get in to do that. We're working very closely with some one. I don't think any in this state anyway can can accurately predict what the harvesting of people would actually do. We have some good indication some European countries about how they have reclaimed a phone case. They've done a very good job on that and and and in some cases the the wildlife and the other things at that flurries on pee pads, we're better off as a result of taking the Pete and replanting it into something. It also has a potential for some biomass and we've looked into that sometimes it would be better to raise Cattails or hybridize Poplar will or something like that and and gasifier that rather than to to direct Bernard to pelletize Pizzo. All of those options are being looked at. We're trying to keep it environmentally safe. We know that slower sometimes better than fast when you get into these things that we don't want another Reserve mining case on our hands if there's no reason for us to ever have to do that. I think we learned a hard lesson in that. So we're pravita. We're proceeding very cautiously with it can be a very good in Minnesota industry. It's competitive with some of the Eastern Kohl's now in Western cold. I should say to Eastern Kohl's it's not competitive yet. But if Pete becomes competitive as a few will end it will be more pressure on it at the present time. It is it is a supplement that could become much better. We've been hearing about it for between five and ten years. I would guess and nothing much has actually happened as far as an as a development of an industry is concerned. What is your prediction? In about when we will we will see it really get going and really begin to flourish my first commercial operator. I can't pronounce it to Swedish company and I don't even want it tempted. But that's the one at the governor's going over next month to look at the Reclamation projects and various things that they have done. They have not ask for any subs any kind of asked for some help on the lease is in the preparation of the badge to some degree but their company that believe that they can successfully Harvest teleties or whatever they happen to do whether to convert feet into an energy source reclaim the bed still point where they'll be environmentally acceptable and we're working very closely with him and we want to see their operations what they've done in the past and they're very willing for us to to look at those. And so that's what we want to do what we want to make sure we're getting responsible people who are environmentally conscious and and and protect those Peach badge to the point. We know that there are replace what we know that before we start that's not a renewable resource. Rashanda, the governor knows that the legislators know at the end. They they share our Our concern for it. There isn't a real big push to a from companies and independent companies to get into these beds. Here's some move it move it one time to to be subsidized by state and federal funds to be able to get into the bed. That's when we were suffering through the shortages that we had and when the oil light came and various things happen like that. The pressure on Pete was not so great. But now it's coming back as an alternate source with some money to be made out of it. So we will proceed very carefully or ice here. Let's take another listening with a question for you. Go ahead and you're on the air. Commissioner few calls back on in response to one of them. You said that if the people in northern Minnesota or ask that, you know, they would probably opt State control the wolf and I just I was so concerned he know that you you said that because it's you know, what's in my mind you and I hope it would be yours and chaired by the DNR that politics shouldn't shouldn't enter this decision at all. And if it does you've got to look at the broader picture on the walls, and we've got to take into account the the views of all the people in the state. I think the DNR whether intentionally or not that's making it weird when you're making Minnesota look like a state of wolf Raiders and the proposed control program seems like trying to control smallpox and children by killing them and I think the the dnr's got a Look toward more Progressive Wildlife Management instead of the Run rape and ruin method. It's been managed for the past X number of years. If we are operated a run rape and ruined program in the management of the wolf, that would not have been any wolf to talk about its present time. When we had the authority to poison was we would have done it if that had been the philosophy of I sincerely resent the implication to have their that that's the kind of program is that every wrong you have no basis in fact whatsoever for that the history of Minnesota management of its resources a second to none in the country and definitely is not second of the federal government. Their history is is is less than desirable. I think that the present Secretary of the Interior is a is a good disciple that Another listener is waiting with a question for a commissioner Joy Alexander. Go ahead please. colorful wood What division are the hunting and trapping Department? I want to see commission would care to comment or clarify exactly where the fun to do come from. And is it not correct that most of the money to operate from comes from Sportsmen licenses in Texas division of Fish and Wildlife is a is run out of dedicated funds are very little money there that comes from any other source. The only other source of funding would be donated funds that are not to not license fees, but they're totally self-supporting. There's some federal money that comes back to the Fish and Wildlife Fund dingell-johnson pittman-robertson funds pittman-robertson from the sale of the excise tax on the sale of firearms and dingell-johnson from this tax on the sale of fishing equipment, but it is run. It's a totally dedicated money's there have been times when the General Revenue fund has has donated some money toward fish and wildlife management, but our general operation Dental money out of the game and fish are all dedicated money is paid for by the sports. On and off those people who don't consider themselves hunters and fishermen by the donated money to the non-game species, which is very generous and their contributions where we're having a record year. This is the highest we've ever collected this year somewhere in the neighborhood of $650,000. If I recall correctly. We had some Hefty increases in fishing fees this past session of the legislature. What is your prediction about what will happen next year when all of her while they will hold and the proposal is a recommendation of sports fishing groups who indicated that they would like to have a reason they're fishing license to be able to do certain things and among those things of course is experimental Lakes program and rivers to be able to do something in the in the area more intensified management of fish resources part of it was the elimination of the Gill net it gillnetters on Lake of the Woods if we go to the commercial gillnetters, and there's a provision in my license fee to buy those people out but generally increases a $2 and a half charge. Excuse me, that is dedicated money will be used for the intensified fish management. Totally supported and will be totally paid for by the fisherman with only 10% of it allowed for any administrative costs. So the bulk of the money goes back into the program and have questions and we'll take you next go ahead please. Can are in Saint Paul and that's weird. They told me to go skip this Minnesota DNR told me to go fishing in Lake Michigan over in Wisconsin. Is there any hope that we will ever get fishing in Lake Superior competitive with Lake Michigan or even close to it? I am awfully glad you said competitive and not comfortable. There's a big difference in the two lakes and we have to explain this to people Lake Superior is coming up this coming up very rapidly as a sport fishing place on a tourist attraction there with the big lake type of fishing one of the most promising species up their course is the Atlantic salmon in the lake trout are there but they didn't the old traditional they should Randal Lake but the Atlantic salmon are coming up very quickly and I almost every fishes caught around 2:10 lb class now brakes are state record they're going quickly and if somebody turns on then turn off 210 lb and some few ounces in there their they're going doing very well. There's a lot more Sports Fisheries on Lake Superior right now than then they general population of State really realizes. I think that this is indicated a few weeks. The Steelhead Association had a fishing derby of some kind up there and they were a great number of people on that Lake and did very well. I was up for that night got a couple of fish. Not at not very many by Lake Superior is coming up Lake Michigan is a lake that is much warmer in temperature and I had in a day a better bait population and we have in Lake Superior. They they will have a different fishery and night. Like I said, I'm glad you said competitive we will be competitive but we won't be comfortable in the size or the type of fish that they catch but we're getting there and we're getting there very quickly. We'll move on to another state with a question. Go ahead please about the bike race near Northern Minnesota. I have some knowledge and I believe that the population here is almost we have very little but I say that from Hinckley to Remer up along the Red River Valley for 500 to be someone in that. Accidentally here at various times that number will be dropped on almost nothing. We are buying a little bit that's one of the things that people have failed to recognize in a wolf program is it just a range of the wolf has extended a great deal on the last boss in Saving on last 26 years or thereabouts. And your your geographical lines are pretty good. Maybe just a little farther south but we haven't planned, do we have had some some medicated wolf sightings and they're getting on over into the momentary end of awfully close to Thief River Falls, MN documented sightings of Timberwolves and Son case of documented killings of Timberwolves. So the range of spread considerably and you are right about Northeastern Minnesota that probably least productive wall frames that we have now for a couple reasons. Mature Forest of the bwca don't don't raise many deer and wolves don't live very long around an area where there aren't many deer. Are there in the balance? Is there in the balance out in some way if you dear if you want it's pretty simple. 20 minutes to 1 Joey Alexander is with his commissioner Department of Natural Resources. They are more listeners with questions are on the are the definition of sport strapping. My question is don't you think that control could be achieved a wolf populations more humanely effectively and scientifically by Dan our Personnel or under DNR direct supervision, then buy a trapping season, which would serve only a few Trappers money is the argument against such a plan. I'm sure that private contributions could be raised to offset the expenses in order to stop a season for trapping wolves. Money is not the question here at all. We will use the in our Personnel to do most of what we're doing our Predator controllers for all intents and purposes Rd in are they do some of this under contract in some cases on on much of the deprivation of take to control we have some other animals that we have to control also like beaver and in some cases muskrats on Dyke's and things like that that they are much less than the wolf. But it all comes under the same type of heading of control. We would not make any money out of 50 wolves being taken that would be an administrative procedure that would be costly to us. But we we believe that this is something that that would be happy to be done outside of the Predator controllers that some of these people are they just couldn't work on the number of wolves that they were getting as far as like as the Skins are concerned to be able to sell those there any money that we might pay them but where we failed and where they deprivation is still going on if we loaded whatever you happen to call it. If you could whatever you call trapping and the Trappers in the country think that they have a sport. I think it would I guess it depends on what you call Sports. But trapping through some strapping for a woman letting them Market to Peltzer is a way for us to solve some of the homeless unsolvable depredation problems. We have with our without decimating the proper population by putting a limit of 50. Another listener is waiting and has a question. Go ahead you're on the air doesn't stamp and one says implemented what will be done with the funds to increase the Pheasant populations and another on a different subject. What's your opinion is of the checkerboard type of tree harvesting and its effects on wildlife management and the opinion that Wildlife generally like to have at age areas where the forest is growing and not already mature. I know I've had a lot of experience with mature for us when the forest has grown as I have and then when before it gets older of the animals have a tendency to go to other areas that have been harvested like let's save Where they're clear-cutting done and just small areas and then it'll pop Allure or poplar trees grow very fast and then the wildlife moved back into the area. Once it's been clear-cut after two to three years. You got a couple of questions their first snow in the end the rest of the proceeds from that snap again are dedicated to Pheasant management pheasant habitat than only 10% of the funds can be used for a head of any administrative cost whatsoever. There is going to be a lot of money when you start talkin about governmental funding for this program. It will depend a success will depend on the cooperation of clubs with it cooperation of County boards and more directly the cooperation of the farmers. We can do it on a grant-in-aid type thing that we can furnish a certain amount of money and the clubs come in and go out and try to lie certain Wetlands try to help us out on the on the ditch management so that we can Keep weeds down and or noxious weeds down and cover up for pheasants to hatch in. It will not be a cure-all program. I think it would be an educational program that pheasants can be helped by a proper habitat management. And I think when we demonstrate that we will see some increase in the Pheasant population in a few have a further question. It's going to come from somebody will we ever have pheasants? Like we once had or South Dakota? No, I'm afraid not we just don't have that. We don't have the cover for them. We will never have it unless you're some disaster of some kind some natural disaster that that's causing us to go back to the Wild and that's not likely to happen. So the Pheasant stamp will be a good well being good and Sunday, it will not be a cure-all Dennis and Dennis Dennis Anderson, the Saint Paul Pioneer Press, of course, I spearheaded that program and I think the state owes him. Thanks at times for that. Damn. I think that we're well on our way math flash Minnesota Association of farmers landowners and Sportsmen eight. Of the program that that is hasn't had a great deal of effect on Farmers so vindicating War between landowners in Sportsman and so was it all I think we have a chance to see some increase in pheasant populations and I hope noticeable thing that you talked about on harvest. I agree with you that and I think most Wildlife people management people do that. We talked about such things and Wildlife Management its Edge and you get add gym several different ways by cutting checkerboards by burning by whatever you have to do to clear out the door for a second growth Popple is one of the funniest things that we have for a lot of wildlife deer ruffed grouse various things like that the purchase of Popple door that's been in northern Minnesota and it's increases of desirable species is probably going to do as much for a wildlife in northern Minnesota has any program that we have ever undertaken and there were two companies or three or four companies now interested Potlatch just had to put Plants abandoned has a plant that utilizing Papalis pressed wood in various forms a chipboard and wafer board and oriented strand someone to do that after buying popcorn when you buy pop with you create a gif. Who created you have Wildlife so we're in it together. It's about a quarter before 1 and we have more of us news with questions. It's not not making wolves extinct in the states. And I really isn't the point the point is that the state and the federal government have an obligation to provide optimal numbers of wills and estate trapping season is not going to do that at the state takes up to a hundred sixty bowls added on to the 250 the 400 wheels that are being taken. Illegally. Now that kid have to add up to about half the wolf population in the states in the state population is estimated at about twelve hundred and that's a Burger King in Pasadena tournament about the current capacity and some of those areas where they would be concentrating the wolf taking and it's not going to reduce the illegal to take him because we'll talk to work up to $100 or more a year and I don't see why people are going not going to. I was going to stop taking those just because this is season. It doesn't it certainly doesn't do that with you because it's been estimated that half the deer in the state of Taken illegally as well as legally did you ever have been taken lately, but my question is about the money I've heard that the DNR is going to require up to 350,000 $400,000 for the world program and I'm wondering if the DNR has that money and if not, we're going to get it and Why is my money thing is preserve while I haven't had? We don't have the money. We don't have 500,000. I think you're a little short on your estimate. Probably would if we were going to control the population as many of the protections have suggested that we do it probably looks at three-quarters of a million dollars and doing the things that we could have to do in of course, the federal government isn't spending that either. I don't know if you have any figures on that but getting back to the purpose of The Endangered Species Act that was to reinstate endangered or threatened or endangered species in the places where they formally Rollin They formerly had a good habitat. And one of our suggestions was it was met by a great deal of opposition. Of course, is that the in lieu of a federal program or in lieu of a state program that we Embark in a massive trapping program to relieve the pressure on the on livestock and deer in the northern Minnesota and do as he endangered species requires and restock those animals in the eastern part of the state Maine New York, Michigan places like that where they have no population. The only problem is man, New York Michigan place like I didn't particularly care for that idea. And so, but that's one of our off If we fail in this we're going to insist on the provisions of the endangered species program being a followed and we're going to finish the rootstock and send it over there. More listeners with questions for chemistry Alexander go ahead your next but my question concerns, what do you know about the cross country skiing user fees that has been recommended by the legislature cross-country skiers. I've never been to a two and salt about having any kind of license on skiers. They wanted it. They want to be a part of the Trails program. They wanted something dedicated to their you. So they asked for the fee will do our best administered. We'll do our best to provide them some places that they have been a part of funding and I think this was their idea is that they were getting so much ridicule and Standard-Times some opposition to using a trail that they had not find a snowmobilers and others that Finance them to various things that they ask for part of it and now they're going to have that and I hope it works out for them because it's a growing Sport and it's one of the things I think. Will probably be up a tourist attraction to the state. We we do have places where it where is cross country skiing was certainly a plus. 10 minutes before 1 time for another lesson with a question. Go ahead. You're on the air. It was stated that almost all if not all the money for the awhile. I said Can appear in our came from hunters and Trappers and I'm wondering in that context dump. We have a number of animal organizations here in the state animal rights Coalition the friends of animals and their environment representative Defenders of Wildlife and fun free animals in Humane Society United States were all opposed to trapping and working on a voluntary basis with knowledgeable and dedicated people now here you have some funds going to the DNR for the Wildlife section. Is it any wonder that the DNR and the commissioner up with the first of all serving the purposes of the hunters and Trappers rather than Hawaii life. I guess I missed a question. I'm saying that you're getting all the money from did that you're serving a special interest of 100 Trappers rather than the Twilight themselves, which the other groups are primarily serving as a shin to chew indicated. They're the ones that I have met with in some cases. We made some progress and other areas, but most of the time it's complete protection. It's not a management of a species. It's complete protection without any taking of any kind whatsoever in any manner and that we differ with that. We don't know we do not believe that that is a management program. And that's where we differ I guess tonight. I respect the right to differ but I happen to be in the other camp and I don't think that they're in the foreseeable future you will ever have a commissioner that's complete protectionist. I don't see that you're going to have to have somebody's going to be out balance of you as a state. That's what I'm trying to do. About 8 minutes before 1 we have time for a few more calls, and we do have a couple of open lines to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities area one 800-652-9700 in other parts of Minnesota getting the busy signal earlier, but we do have a couple of lines now and possibly time for your question. Go ahead please. posterior And both the phone are they going to drill for it? Well, I'd be right there at the oil. I'll take that last one of theirs. I think you missed a little bit of it. They have drill for a while and I didn't find any other than some crankcase oil it somehow got in the bottom of the well, but that was about all they found but I can't there there will be as far as I know people can drill for a while on their properties. They want to they can drill holes and I can thicken call a drilling for anything. They want to if it if they have the mineral rights. They want to go ahead and do that and I can get the proper permits on the number of deer that are poached. You could pick just about any number that you want. We have some some estimates of the number of animals. We have some estimates no more efficient or taking that that would be guess. This is at best. We don't have any real good handle on it, but I would say I would I would probably say that the accidental Tate killed by automobiles approaching take those that are killed outside of the season end of take buy wheels and predatory animals probably are as close to the legal take The deer population is what quite large stations from the from the public that there are more deer being seen where they are around and they've had for several years. What are the states with questions for the commissioner? Go ahead cuz you're next. Hello. Good job of strike a happy medium. That's what I think we have up here right now is where we've gone maybe overboard and the protection of a bear. A drawing of a farmer's field damage with Resorts maybe next year. We'll get away from the drawing and everybody that wants to hunt bear can't but overall. I think the dnr's don't come in the shop. Just one, the people who are against rapping. I think if we don't trap the muskrats the Beavers right now, we we have so many David are going so many problems with a beaver hide is only for $5. Thank you. I love you. I would come in a moment on a bear. Yes. We have a we have an indication of a large population of Bexar. We're not quite sure what has happened to late spring and everything cause the late very maturation up there. So we are looking at we're looking at two things. Are we there have more bear than we thought we had our they're eating more things and they shouldn't Airbnb becoming more evident than they should be will know about that pretty quickly. But the thing I have to tell people about on setting a number of bear that you harvest if we make a mistake on the wrong side of that and we Harvest too many barely takes five or six years has never recover that if I make a mistake and we Harvest too few I can correct that in one year. We can increase the number so if we're going to make a mistake, I'd rather make it on the low side and not take quite so many I can crack that but Dover Harvest would be something that I would not like to do. 5 minutes before 1 here is our next listener. Go ahead, please. Call cousin problem relating to all this money that's going into non-indigenous species. As you know, like the Haitian doesn't wear as experiencing a severe problem with the dissemination of the prairie chickens. Anything further to add on pheasants my I don't know. I guess I didn't quite understand the question but it seems like you know supporting non-indigenous species where you have indigenous species that the populations are dwindling some things that we're doing for the Perkins PreCheck. And as far as I know, the only real good population is up in the area Rothesay up in that country there where there are a few free chickens left, but all we've done some things in the state over the years. It may not have promoted prairie chickens too much pheasants and prairie chickens. Don't get along very well together. One of my one of the others going to take over when that happens in this case. Probably the Pheasant took over in the habitat changed. There's not much we can do to put Minnesota back into Prairie for prairie chickens, but we can we can probably do with them and with a bobwhite quail the best we can and any habitat program any non-game species program that we do it is not single out of species if we Even if we protect the swamp and we rebuild a swamp through the non-game species deer pheasants Ducks the whole works will benefit and if we reclaim Prairie that's protected through our scientific and natural area for women. We protect at Prairie the prairie chickens will certainly benefit from that show to zero money. And for a particular species doesn't necessarily mean another species won't get help by that or at least be recognized by Think we have time for one more brief question-and-answer. Go ahead, please your next we have a problem in our area of a people just coming into one hot wherever they feel like doing it and it's something cuz I'm simple just issue a permit to sleep when they require the hunter to go to the property owner to have the sign and then it stopped by someone from the DNR. They would need to produce this permit properties as any agricultural use for any painting of livestock must have the permission of the landowner and it's a land owner chooses to do that by permit. He may do that and if there people out there that shouldn't be there and he can and I can get a hold of its misdemeanor violation under the state law under the criminal statutes to trespass. It's also civil civil damage complaint if it's on private land and it isn't for the purpose of the game and fish. There's a double-barrel trespass law on people are not allowed on your property under this unless you want them there. We we have not required a written permit, but that could be done in that has been done by townships in a farmer decided to Orlando and are they can certainly do it under the age of 16 laws. Well, sir, I think we've run out of time. I'm sorry to say but I want to thank you very much for coming in and we are going to do this today.