I suppose that our most important form of day-to-day communication is words all the latest video and computer technology notwithstanding. We use our language every time we speak or write hundreds of times a day, maybe thousands of times a day depending and we do it without much thought to The Forum where the style of the language that was number going to break with the usual pattern the usual tradition and we are going to focus some attention on the English language or Studio guest is dr. Thomas Pearsall who is Professor and head of the Department of rhetoric on the University of Minnesota st. Paul campus. He has been an occasional guests on this program over the past couple of years, and we're very happy. Dr. Pearsall to have you back. We talked about using language without a lot of thought I suppose that know. Where is that more obvious than in the case of the acquisition of language as a young child. How is it do you suppose or do we know for sure how it is that people acquire and use language idea of how children go about the process of acquiring language. And in fact, they give it they the children I didn't give it a great deal of thought all they do indeed they do it's a very complex on to take and Understand the child has to do two things. It has to learn vocabulary, which is the least of it really and then has to learn a syntax to go with that vocabulary another word the proper order and so forth in which to put two words together and they begin at a very early age children in the crib a few months of age. If you listen to him, I will be making sound will sound like kind of broken like a battle and it won't make any sense and that they're not using words at that point. But what they're actually doing at that moment is practicing the rhythm of the language. They hear their parents talk and they begin to mimic that Erica and they just beginning to get the rhythm of it. That's the that's the first beginning of the of the acquisition of language and then at some point they say mama or Dada or Bob or whatever. Who's my favorite exactly? The the first thing that a child does this is been pretty well, you know by listening to Children scientist language twisting to it. First thing they do indeed is beginning to talk in one word sentences as you indicate dada. Mama Wawa doggy that that kind of thing. We say one word sentences because in a sense their their syntax is beginning to come into play another words. They learn by inch and Nation. For example, they can say Wawa kind of requesting a Wawa which is kind of a picking up those kinds of rhythms that I might add that there is no way for child to learn language without interaction with speakers of the language. In other words a child couldn't be put in front of a radio or TV set for years and would not learn the language is that right? There must be an interaction with a speaker of the language. What point do they begin to do more than one word sentences? They they moved into two word sentences in which typically they'll put together a a noun or pronoun with a verb for such as a want water to learn the verb for that or doggy come or Susan talk Daddy talk and they move out of that stage rather quickly into multi word census not terribly long ones, but they don't go 1-2-3 and that's how I took a 1/2 and then break into three for even five word sentences and it's at that point that they begin to learn grandma. And the way children do it is through a complex process of induction generalizing from what they hear. For example, take a child learning learning verbs. They'll they'll say things like the present tense regardless of what tense is needed. They'll say I talk I come I do. Hope we'll be the first thing that the alarm then they'll begin to bring in a few past tenses and he trusts me enough quite often the first past tenses that they use will be the irregular ones. That is I came I went Then they'll do something rather peculiar. It's about a 6-day process. They'll go back most of our past tense verbs we end with a D or t sound such as I talked, for example. Well, they'll generalize that they all go hear their parents doing that and you'll go back and they'll do it for all verbs. I talked I calmed by gold and at that point the parent says the kids regressing just last week. He said I came and I went now he's saying I cumed like gold but what if the child has induced the fact that we end our regular verbs with the design and feels I must have been wrong with the I came and then I went and goes backwards. Then what they'll do which is which is rather interesting is that they'll learn that some of our verbs and not with just a sound but an actual Edie sound such as I need it. I weed it which is not the same as I talked you said and you'll go back and they'll apply that Edie sound to all verbs. So they'll say in effect. I talk it I come it I go to even I went to and what they're doing their generalizing again, you say that again the parents is there progressed that is important point there and I'll come back to that in a moment and I'll go back and I'll say I played I walked I weed it will have those to sort of that and the last stages they'll recognize the irregular verbs and their say I went I came and notice incidentally that I'm using terms like regular verbs are irregular verbs the child doesn't know any irregular verb from a handsaw what the child is doing is simply listening and imitating and watching in effect for the response that they get from the parents and response. Essentially. I am I being on to it, that's what they're really trying for. They don't learn the all the ins and outs of until later to school certainly. They don't know the names for things till they get in school. But actually the child knows just about all the grammar. It's ever going to know the day. It walks into kindergarten door. And then there they get the vocabulary no relationship to what they actually do. They also get in school and overlay if you would correct things. This is correct to do that's not correct to but that's such a thin overlay onto the literally thousands of rules that they have learned before they ever got to school that it's it's almost a Trip Lee wanted to take him to be honest is evasion listening interaction precisely 10 minutes from University of Minnesota. If you swipe your headphones on we will get to the telephone calls and invite those of you who Listening and would like to put a question about language to dr. Pearsall to indeed pick up your phone and call us in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area. The phone number is 227-6002 276 thousand the Minneapolis-Saint Paul and and other parts of Minnesota call us toll-free at one 800-652-9700 the toll-free number again one 800-652-9700. And if you are listening and one of the surrounding states call us directly in the Twin Cities area code 612-227-6000. Wii will get your calls on quickly so that you don't have any higher toll bill. Then. Then you need to see the we do have a number of people already standing by with questions. So let's go to our first listener how you're on the air? Calling from st. Louis Park. I got two questions. Running is the usage. I mean, you know, which one I hear it. I never know what they mean. And what about the maximum reprioritization the first one that rather ubiquitous phrase, you know, what we really hearing there is simply a kind of transition word. It's a way that people have of getting themselves from one segment of the conversation to another segment. You have various things, you know, it's quite popular certainly to the middle west to go back to the east coast to hear a great many people saying alright or okay in the same place you go north up to Canada and the Canadians say eh, And that will be there in two jection know it makes no sense. And certainly it's annoying. If somebody does it a good deal. I would certainly if I had it my spiritual child of mine had an older child had it in his or her speech. I would make some attempt to get it out. But recognize it for what it is. It's simply a transition device that the person uses its if you would it's an audible pause the second one the maximum height the capability or what-have-you there their they're a couple of things going on. That one is that it's very easy and English. In fact is part of the genius of the line was really that we can exchange parts of speech shall we can ride the easily turn nouns into verbs and nouns and adjectives and somewhat and we all do that. We do it in a regular way, but if you put that together with somebody Wants to talk if you would or write in an impressive way so that the reader says golly gosh is as he has a reads it or the hero is that then you fine people doing what ultimately are rather ridiculous things. Like let's maximize the effectual ality. So we get the interface proper man and that sort of thing and all one can do with that is Shake one's head a little bit and discourage it when one can all right. Thank you for calling from Saint Louis Park. When we belong to another listing for the question. Go ahead your next fix course at the University of Minnesota right now, and I'd like the doctor the comment on a child's innate ability to learn language and to form their own grammar. And I also brought just go ahead with that. Maybe that's a good deal of Siri. I don't really think it's much more than that. That's ehat the moment that a that a child comes into the world not with language as such obviously not a vocabulary and so forth, but that it may very well come into the world with an innate ability to learn grammar that is to put what it hears into correct grammatical form at recognized for example easily. If you would that the noun comes before the verb in I go where I went that that kind of thing to my knowledge. There is no real proof of that certainly children at a very Children at an early age seem to learn language while more quickly than we who are older do which would point to the fact that there may be some of that capability. In fact internet capability that as we grow older. We begin to lose track. That's one of the big questions at linguist her asking and attempting to research right. Now if we want to learn foreign language, we might want to pick it up early in life. Uh, oh indeed indeed the phone away the best time to learn any language is at the same time, you're learning your native language. And in fact, if there are if there are too confident if there are two people in a household who speak confident lying or speak confidently two languages, it would be well for them to speak to the child in those two languages It Would Do no harm at all and the child will quite easily learn learn the two. Let's take our next caller. Go ahead, please you're on the air. The Scott Foresman one is index to English. Okay, if you got that, I think she doesn't St Cloud index to English Scott Foresman. We might wear on today. That particular book is the question when she acted last time with what would be a good book to get that would explain or give answers for the various grammatical questions that she had and I recommended that is one of the best around 16 minutes past 12 noon Thomas Pearsall with us today. I see that we do have a couple of lines open now in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area. So if you have a question and would like to join the conversation by all means feel free to 276 thousand is the telephone number to 276 thousand and in other parts of Minnesota one 800-652-9700 Our next listener is standing by go ahead, please. language Yes, I have. if you could the way we think the way we act the way we are in ourselves is what I believe in there's something that I've labeled the Watergate syndrome know it came way before like at this point time instead of at this time or impact used both as a noun and a verb or using the word like viable about inanimate object and you know, just I could go on and on like that but you know incursion for Invasion conflict Implement means to put into effect. Okay. I actually I have two answers to that. The the first answer would be fundamentally to agree with what you're saying to go back to the Hague isms if you would The very first question that was asked that is some people seem to deliberately choose their their words or their grammar or what-have-you to be impressive when they when they talk in other words. They will they will use facilitate rather than these because it's more impressive the latinate portions of the vocabulary. You'll say as you indicated this point in time rather than now or then and that does seem to be quite blatantly obvious attempt to Simply overwhelmed The Listener or the reader with the person's ability with language and if it's carried too far out of your slay the speaker right essential bit ridiculous to almost everyone the Steve the second part of it. You have to buy the second part of my answer is that you have to approach that go with a little Care and that is that as I mentioned earlier. It is indeed a genius of the language that it's that it is quite flexible and it's and it's subject to to change. So just say for example that Implement is a tool and therefore can't be used in a sentence such as we implemented the policy be quite wrong Implement is is well in use and has been for a long time as if as a verb meaning to bring something into being and under proper circumstances could be an excellent choice viable can under certain circumstances be in be an excellent word choice. So what you really worried about here off fed uses of words and also this kind of hyper use of it to be super impressive seems that there are words that do crop up as you say fans that we didn't hear much 10 years ago certainly not 20 years ago. I think for example the word prioritize happens to be one that I hear nowadays it that you just didn't hear and I wonder if that is going to fade away or is that going to become as common in the language has the use of the word to implement as you mentioned a moment ago? No way of telling them that decision is not made by by certainly not by people. Like it's not made by the people put together the dictionary that decision is made by the speakers of the language. In other words, if prioritize a mouthful that it is becomes a word in normal use and fills a need people feel it. It feels a need then indeed. It comes into the language in this likely to stay most words like that. There are rather Francine they come in the and they do go but some come to stay. Sad to hear that. Well, let's move on to another messing with him with a question. Go ahead and your next. intelligent will read otherwise articulate people will put to use in the word nuclear and it comes out nuclear, and I hope that's going to be Text Tracy. I hope it isn't going to become a permanent part of the language is nuclear. Yeah, I really don't have an answer for that. There are various pronunciations for that for that word and four other words, but why otherwise intelligent people do that, I can only answer is that that's how they hear it and then they and they say it that way but go ahead you're on the air. Hello, I'm going to Minneapolis and I have two daughters ages three and six and I would like for them in myself to learn German before a visit to Germany some years. You know, what is the best way or either best way for them and for me to learn to speak foreign language? Well given the age spreads that'd be very different ways likely. Your your best method is probably unless you have somebody close in your family who has the language would probably be a conventional language course offered at a college Close to You perhaps where you go about it in the kind of unfortunate adults the way that we go bashing learning it in a systematic way and learning the rules and so forth. That way would be totally inappropriate for children of three and six the the best way probably for them to learn it might be very difficult thing for you to arrange would be simply for them to interact on a fairly regular way with a German speaker cuz they're still at the age of a three-year-old one will they'll learn language. They acquire German in that rather natural way that I was talking about before. We have more listeners with questions. Go ahead. You're on the air. Play the language and I have taught my children my native language and not English, but when they started going to school, they refused to speak my native language, but they do understand but if I I talk to them in my native language and even reply to me in English, so my question is has lost to them or will they be able to pick up native language? If they don't use it depending on what age they are at now, but if they don't use it in some regular way and deed language language extra fees that is people will will lose it. It's always lying there in a sentence and can compress be recalled but they do tend to lose it. It's really rather shame that they don't use it. It says children are kinda funny. I don't know you didn't say what their ages were but sometimes children get the impression quite quite false. I'm afraid that there's a kind of status thing involved here that English is the status language. And of course it is the language of the country and that therefore other languages don't have equal status says that that's certainly wrong and I hope it's some point maybe they would realize that and it would be eager to keep the other language alive. It's 25 minutes past 12 noon and we welcome several of our NPR network stations to our mid-day program now, dr. Thomas Pearsall is with us and I st. Paul Studios. He is professor and head of the Department of rhetoric at the University of Minnesota st. Paul campus and we are talking about the use of language and has a ksjn 1330 AM joins us and wcsd FM in duluth-superior WGAL in Holt Michigan. We invite to listeners to call in questions about the use of the English language if they wish the phone number in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area, two two seven six 2276 thousand in Minneapolis Saint Paul outside the Twin Cities area in the state of Minnesota toll-free 1-800 652-9700. And for those of you in Michigan or possibly in Ontario call us directly in the Twin Cities area. Area code 612-227-6000. We have another listener standing by with a question. Go ahead your next off Minneapolis for the information to the gentleman who inquired about course for German. The university has a German course that concentrates on where you make your grammatical and tactical errors. I really highly recommended because it only works you in the area said your week of wondered if the doctor would comment on it is when the child is most able to learn a foreign language that there is no program for him to do. So in our public schools. That is it seems to even if retrogressed of the time my parents were in school, but when they learn Latin in public schools and and friend, is it something with it? Marshalls. Necessity to speak foreign languages because there are few were immigrants or I'd like to hear the discussion at the funding come down. The money that is when you have only a certain amount of money to spend on education then your value judgments as to what's important or not begin to come into play and certainly we seem in this country yet for quite some time now not to put a high value on learning other languages. Sometimes it seems like you don't put a high value on learning our own but certainly not on on other languages and that can be true. I think in part because of the nature of the United States that is those of us here. For example in men of the soda. We speak English. Let's say let's say across the st. Croix in Wisconsin. They spoke wrench Certainly, we would be to a certain extent knowledgeable in French person because we have to be but because they speak English in Wisconsin or we don't have the deed and therefore we don't feel that it's a your compelling think it ain't the other is that I don't think we really recognize today recognize the cultural value of another of another language that has a great practical value, but it has great cultural value as well. And I think mine if we fail to see that sometimes there been a lot of people come to this area of the Twin Cities area in particular indo-chinese refugees who speak their native languages and are in the public schools. I want to feel the energy in a cross fertilization there any in the Twin Cities kids picking up some of the languages that they may be speaking in Indochina as well as obviously those folks learning the English language if we go by That is all that could be cross fertilization and picking up a few of vocabulary things. For example, most people who grew up the way. I did near New York City a couple of years words for example, but that's just the vocabulary thing. Certainly. I can't speak in Yiddish. I don't have the grammar or any of that kind of thing. So we need some of that some of that but likely not because the group's just aren't large enough now and the in southwest and in Florida where you're getting huge concentrations of Spanish speakers, the United States right now is that has the fifth largest number of Spanish speakers in the world only behind countries like Mexico and Colombia in Spain itself. So in areas where that's going on then I think indeed you'll get a lot of puss realization great many children growing up in Miami, for example Probably do have some Spanish now, but to answer your specific questions Vietnamese, probably not on the phone with questions. So we'll take our next caller. Go ahead. You're on the air. The use of have got instead of have it seems to be very, my mother was quite a grammarian and that was one of her favorite things to get out of her language early, but now I see it's cramping up the Time Magazine another publication. I suppose you mean is I have got the paperclip as opposed. Do I have the paper clip? Yeah. It's in most cases. It's a redundancy but then language is full of redundancy. Your mother was right it would be just as well to take it out of your speech and same way that you take out the steady repetition of okay, or you know, but again like a great many things in language in and of itself is probably not terribly awful. Our next listener is waiting patiently. Go ahead you're on the air as one of the study of language. Not that you can always in the Great Vowel Shift is a good example of it the Great Vowel Shift incidentally for those with me. So don't know what that is is a is a moving up in the mouth of the valves. In other words, for example in Spanish. You would take the word Madre Madre and if we gave that an English pronunciation, that would be mad Dre. Well, all the vowels moved up in the in that in that way. So then did not the same as the vowel sound that you get in French and Italian and German until 4 why that happened we really we really Don't know the the thing that you can spot a little bit more is is is how is how words is how words changing meaning and that primarily is a generalization process very much like the child learning language where you'll take a word like or Blitzkrieg. Let's say which we picked up from the Germans during World War II and it meant literally in German. It meant admitted MIT lightning War we brought it into English and we very rapidly began to use it. In other ways. For example, we cut it down from Blitzkrieg 2 Blitz and began to use it in the football d-line back is what's the quarterback or use it in Gin Rummy? Yeah you bleach your opponent. If you hold them scoreless and self what we do that kind of thing all the time. That's what I mean when I talk about the genius of language. and it's why we really quite frankly shouldn't shouldn't fear as much as say people like Edward Newman do the the changing light change if language didn't change it would be terribly. Charlie did probably we have more lessons with questions. Go ahead and you are next like you slept it off his government and even the local announcers and I find announces, even on a national broadcasting system used government and I was taught it was government further and farther is grossly misused and that I would like to have the correct way of using those hurts and I certainly a great many of us do do speak callously at times. I would hope that radio announcers would not do that, but we try and we try but but when when you get a word like government and you're quite correct, it's a three syllable word. There's an end in there. It's fairly easy to swap that in. And make it sound like I like I could feel so would like to sober work. Again. That's one of the about the Great Vowel Shift. Well, I didn't have an exact answer cuz I don't know and I don't think anybody does I know nobody does know what did cause that what you find that words will change and pronunciation. For example, take a word like of Worcestershire sauce. If you would have spelled that out. It would be something like Worchester Shire and maybe at some point in history. People said Worcester shy but enough people sniff people's add Worcestershire and that has now become the correct pronunciation. Although I don't think Reagan juice of government will will actually who actually bring that in the further father question though. It had a great many circumstances and I need some examples I think but a great many circumstances either one is equally correct. Sometimes we get the impression because we have two words that we must study discriminate in their use for the father in most cases. That's not true. If you further with father will do just as well. Either one would do just as well practically interchangeable that or not but the question go ahead and your next and I have a question on what I guess. I considered sexist language. I know local TV shows will use newsman Anchorman unless they have a woman on staff then they'll say newscaster. But if it's the woman's night also go back to News man ran command also in print medium where people use chairman unless there's specific a woman in that position. You have any advice for awareness of that sort of language and some basic so we can use to modernize our language. I think we all need to be I think the women's movement has made its all my most of it. Anyway, quite quite sensitive to the fact that in our language we have we have ignored about about half the population white or quite tricky though. That's not something a little bit easier say for example, the terms waiter and waitress most of the style manuals now for companies like McMillan Holt Rinehart and Winston companies publish books saying now to do away with the with the female version of that another word simply use the word waiter and then it goes if it were important then you'd have to say something like the female waiter or are they male waiter? Same thing with things like for example, poet poet poet should be should be good enough for both male and female Aviator. Aviatrix, I haven't heard in years, but other words simply anybody who flies a plane would be in a V8 or whether it's male or female. So a lot of the where we had the two kinds of words such as way to waitress much of the publishing companies. At least now that I deal with their advice is to do away with the female version of that and used what was the male version for for both. Now where you actually have a man as part of the word such as chairman and command that that kind of thing that gives you a somewhat more difficult situation, but what we've been doing with most of those is all we tried some experiments like chairperson, for example one that I personally don't like to me that's kind of clumsy like some of those Watergate things we were talking about before I think what we can do in some of those would simply be to use the word and this is what I do forever. It's worth I simply Is the word chair? In other words, he is the chair of the committee. She is the chair of the committee and so forth. My guess would be the night command could go the same way. We could simply say he is the anchor of the evening news or she's the anchor of the evening news that type of clip that is a cutting a word down such as telephone down the phone airplane down. The plane is a very common occurrence in English. We do it all the time and I suspect that's what we're going to do with those words that end with with man other variations with us not convenient. For example mailman, we couldn't really say mail there that wouldn't be appropriate the same way that we can say chair what you can what we're doing with those the saying what what is the mailman do well the mailman carries the mail so we can come up with a mail carrier and then we get a non-sexist term fireman. Same thing. What is a fireman do well the fireman fights fires? Non-sexist term can be firefighter. Those are the kinds of things that we that we are doing is very definitely changing the language in some other fascinating waves policeman becomes police officer. Exactly. We have more listeners with questions your next go ahead. Try that myself here in Duluth. I taught them Spanish and German to 4th grade children and the success they experienced many words students were not interested or who but this except they experience in learning oral language motivated them to achieve success. In other areas in my feeling is a reason she is at Karen's as well. As many educators are not cognizant of the fact that children can spend up languages with minimal effort and success at the experience will really Inspire them to achieve another areas. I would strongly urge that rhyme with the teachers teach. You don't necessarily have to know them. Rick and records are available in in in my experience the we talked. I took 15 minutes in the morning and sat with a group of children teaching and learning Spanish children themselves gave this time because they chose to we reverse the procedure and they really started up a tremendous amount of their desire to achieve in other areas was very satisfied. I don't really think I need to answer that. I think you said it all I can say that I totally agree but what it took on your part was it dedication on you apart almost in the scent outside of the system and that's rather unfortunate and yet you're absolutely right children for whatever reason whether it's an innate ability or whatever all through a certain age or just simply sponges of languages 19 minutes before the hour. Dr. Thomas Pearsall is with us. He is professor and head of the Department of rhetoric at the University of So the Saint Paul campus were talking about the English language. You have a question in your next phrase that some common break come in widespread use and it's a shorthand to express the difficult in Ocean and its meaning is usually well understood having sex and its expression. It's always struck me as being ungrammatical even allowing for 40 and emotionalism and I'm wondering if I had my gramatik analysis in grammatical or ungrammatical expression. Obviously, it's simply that we don't have a good acceptable word in the language for for that activity. So weak we come up with these rap. Strange things such as having sex or sleeping with somebody that that that kind of thing all of which you're quite misleading and as you suggest maybe even on grammatical innocence, but we don't seem as yet to have truth and advertising it in that area. So enough said we'll move along the Rhine X listener Minneapolis greatest amount of creativity that humans will ever witness is strictly speaking extraordinary logical and what I was Xbox me with I'm being hazed and I thought it was my question is I'm wondering about the the phrase to go with wondering about the geographical limitations of it. And if you happen to know what the origin of example when people say when you say you're going to go to the store and someone says what can I go with people that I was just wondering if you could get interesting one one about your child wear with a child says I am being haive what you have there is a very good example of the child generalizing and that is we have in the language. What's the verb eat and we can be things so the child generalizes from that and makes the assumption that the bee and behave is the same type of bee and indeed that's a very very imaginative generalization that turns out to be wrong. But for the stage that the child has and it shows how the child's mind is thinking and working and it's a very excellent example of that for those of you who are interested in in children speaking. I might just mention an article for you, which I think is one of the best I've ever read on how children acquire language it was in the Scientific American in November 1978. And the author was a professor at Matzke Moskowitz and its interests a remarkably good lay explanation. If you would have how children acquire language go back to your second question to go with that's pretty much a amen. Western expression you hear it in the Milwaukee area you here to the Twin Cities. Are you here at summon the Chicago? You don't hear it on either Coast. You don't hear it down south. I'm not really sure where it comes from. It may very well be from from some of the German influences. I think it's a rather dramatic grammatical twist. So he did Might very well be from that, but I don't know for sure and I'm not sure that anybody does but seems to be in quite strong in this area and through to some of the other part to a middle west. I am calling from Detroit Lake and After I study German for 4 years at college and then made a few trips to Europe and was able to use them. I'm kind of realized now that I've gotten into the working world that it's not going to be a possibility for me to travel like that and continue to use my language that way and so I'm basically wondering how it would be possible to keep the language up even though you're not you able to use it or interact in the German language on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, but what I would try to do would be to to find some find some people like yourselves who speak German and and wish to keep that ability and and and simply get together with them mono and a regular social way or to speak to speak the language. They're awesome and I can't name any for you. But I know there are some clubs in the Twin City area is that do precisely that I know some and generally they're they're brought together by people who wish to keep your language up. For example, I know some friends who belongs to a friend club and they regularly meet then they speak and speak the language and incidentally they'll also cook French food in that and that kind of thing, but I that's that's the best way to do it. Well, maybe you'll be able to start a German club up in Detroit Lakes over the comment. Go ahead your earlier. Professor by find the use of is a bridge word very distracting. Could you comment on its importance to the proper use of our language? Are there other words in other languages? Thank you. Yeah, it was what I was talking about before perhaps when somebody asks a question about you know, and that is that we have these Bridge word such as you know or the the audible pause off or the Canadians a and so forth and find syllables such as if you would dine almost every language of people seem to feel the need for the bridge or making or making the transition. We have another listener. Go ahead. You're on the air. Volunteers are sought through and notices in the paper and I was wondering if is that an unusual teaching method a new teaching method. Is it is it something use in schools? Is it unique it? Anyway, I'm sorry. I'm not familiar enough with that to answer that question about the show called attitude. My native language, we just got has a feminine form for just about everything and I don't think that the Dutch were not say any kind or two women than them. American tours Well, most most languages, of course have much more feminine forms. If you would probably even then we had an English. They certainly do the French Spanish most certainly certainly do and I don't really know what coming I can make on that other than the fact that it certainly exists that is feminine forms are more and more common in other languages than then they are not whether they are whether the fear of sexism. If you would go will will cause that change I have no idea. My guess would be that those things in other language is particularly where it's so ingrained far more grain than it is an English will be very very slow and changing. Another caller is waiting. Go ahead and you're on the air. Application for about 25 years. And in that time I've watched the funding incidentally at a community college. I'm going to be having 154 students fall quarter, which is more than most high school load and my question is to ask you whether you foresee. A kind of oral post literate society that is where people will not be writing or reading very much. Can you answer that? I don't know those predictions are always rather rather nerve-wracking to make I could make a few comments one is that I would concur with you that writing skills seem to be going down and there's some fair amount of evidence to show that for example, the Always testing scores dropped from about 470 out of 800 in the early sixties. And now I think the average running about 4:25. I just been or has been quite serious drop why that's occurred is it is very difficult to tell what its influence of TV or what-have-you, but it certainly is certainly there certainly my experience and teaching composition which is comprable to us have noticed a loss of scale of of incoming students. Now, what is it that projects what are you can make a projection of that to a to a kind of post literate Society rather difficult to tell my my guess would be in some ways are oddly enough. That at some point we're going to have to turn it around because it seems to me that is we move into what's increasingly being cold and Information Society that is in any nice States. If you would most of the western world countries, the the transmission the production transmission of information is becoming one of the major things that we do if you walk into any downtown office building and any major city, the people not making widgets they making information and there and then they're transferring it around and much of it will continue to be transferred around in the written form. Even when we go to things like electronic mail. For example, I think in the near future we're going to have fewer secretaries. I think what you going to find increasingly as a middle manager working directly through a word processing computer to communicate with other people now and that occurs at middle managers going to have to be able to write better than that he or she may be able to do it today. So my guess is that circumstances May Force us to turn turn to turn this around to pay pay more attention to call position than we do what to give people like yourself a load, which is a tolerable one and not a hundred fifty students at a time on the other hand. If a computer program can the device that will spell and that will look for correct syntax and so on and so forth. It may be that the type of traditional literacy. They were talking about may change from an aunt or the computer type of literacy. Yeah. That's that's that's possible. I would certainly they have spelling programs in existence right now and they're beginning to get some Philly workable punctuation one. But since those are always in a sense the most trivial part of writing and I don't mean to downgrade important to get your comment in the right place, but the really important thing of writing is the is the organization of your ideas presenting it in the right kind of language the right kind of vocabulary and Indian the right kind of order and that a computer can't do for you six minutes before the hour. We have not too much time and lots of calls. So we'll fit as many as we can go ahead your next gate c-19 when I was in the eighth grade. They taught us grammar. They told the distinction between the nominative objective case. How to use who and whom until after we hear it on the radio and other ones who who do you love with regard to we were taught also to say this is different from not different bad. And another thing was they talk about this. This town is located between two two Lakes 3 supposed to be situated to locate me to find something and I say thank you very much for calling any observations on that. It's not actually the certainly the such such things as for example different from different then yeah, if you certainly from 17th century Grandma, which is when we really began to put on grammar into a code the different from would be considered more correct than the different that but what you're saying from 1919 to now obviously is a long span of time and language language does does change Sample Z the clothes discrimination between who and whom the use of whom rather I should say. It is is gradually gradually fading out of the language in my advice. There would be that if you use home use it correctly, but if you don't want to use it, that would be in most circumstances would be correct the day also, all right, we'll take another call or go ahead your next flight from Minneapolis and I would be interested in touring dark appears all's comments on what I see to be increasing use of. The phrase I feel for the phrase I think as in I feel that we're spending a $20 on defense and it should be spent Elsewhere. For example, thank you. Yeah, I think again that's just afraid that isn't the sort of thing. I might add that bothers me a heck of a lot. I think the I think the point is made when you say I feel with spending too much on on defense or whatever comes within the allowable latitude that we have in the in the inappropriate use of language. I didn't think we could we can do is Izzy is get to too uptight. If you would about about some of those things and in a sense when we do we we lose the perhaps the ability to use language well because we sit around all the time worrying about is this correct or not, and then that's not the open the floodgates to a lot of incorrect things, but it is Play We can probably be a little bit more flexible about some of these things or we're just about out of time. But let's see if we can fit in one more very quick question and very quick answer. Go ahead. Please briefly in a question on the lady that called earlier about keeping children speaking a particular language in one language under all circumstances kind of on a vertical and not changing on a day-to-day basis or a Time sequence of bases where you're if you're out with other people be able to say switching to English, but if you only understand that one language from the child in all circumstances, I think they have a better chance to poke multilingual. What's the mechanism of the translation? For a different language Magikarp in almost. All right. Well, thank you very much for coming in and spending the are with us. It's been been very interesting. Dr. Thomas Pearsall professor and head of the Department of rhetoric at the University of Minnesota's Saint Paul campus, and I hope that you were going to come back again someday. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.